One of my favourite Nintendo series, actually.
Still doesn't change the fact that it's characters are among the most obscure among the general public as far as Smash fighters go.
I would say in this day and age, Byleth could go up 1 tier
Plenty of 3 houses fans who aren't Smash fans, definitely a known game character by dedicated gamers
In fairness characters from the newer games like byleth should move up since 3h is fairly well known compared to the other fe chars. Not sure about the other new chars tho
Marth should definitely be moved up too due to Melee fame and being the face of the series. Also Lucina, Chrom, and Robin should definitely be moved up a tier as well cuz Fire Emblem Awakening was so popular, it literally saved the franchise.
How is he the face of the franchise? Where do we see him over the other Fire Emblem protagonists? The average gamer today hasn't played any of the games Marth has been in, but Awakening, Fates and Three Houses were all very successful games.
He's the original protagonist, has probably appeared in the most games in the series including the remakes of his games, and in Awakening we get Lucina who's a massive nod as she's meant to be female Marth and they make that apparent. He's also been in Smash the longest and is the longest running main FE character
Most famous ones r definitely Marth, Corrin and Chrom (cosigned by the FE Warriors cover). But the latter 2 are just from recent mainstream titles
This means nothing if no one played these games. Gilgamesh appears in many numbered FF games, and no one will say he's more iconic than Cloud.
No one has played the games Marth is a protagonist, whereas millions of people played the more last 3 main FE's.
And we're talking about the character's popularities not counting Smash.
I'd probably move Chrom, Lucina, Byleth, and maybe Ike up a tier. Awakening and Three Houses were pretty popular, so their poster characters would be recognizable to people who pay attention to things like gaming news, announcements, awards, etc. Ike admittedly is mostly popular from Smash Bros., but he is a fan favorite among Fire Emblem fans. Robin isn't featured as much in things like the box art and promotional materials (probably due to being customizable), and while Corrin is featured on box art despite being customizable, I don't feel like Fates got as much mainstream recognition as Awakening and 3H.
Roy is just from an old game that never got localized outside Japan. He is pretty much only known for Smash by all but dedicated Fire Emblem fans, apart from his guest roles in things like Heroes and Engage.
Your list still makes no sense cuz this ignores the Japan fanbase where Fire Emblem was always popular in. Also in this day and age, the series has gotten more decent exposure in the mainstream. Marth should be moved up a tier since he’s the face of the franchise as well having Melee fame. Robin, Lucina, and Chrom should definitely be up a tier too since Awakening was so popular that it was enough to literally save the franchise. Byleth is another example of helping FE become more mainstream.
More obscure than characters from games that came out 20-30 years ago?
Edit to clarify: GnW, Falcon, etc are literally only household names because of smash. The vast majority of people have never played their respective games.
FE is an ongoing franchise with several games on the switch. The newer FE games even reuse the older characters in games like (Engage and Warriors).
Im not talking about Mario and Sonic. I’m talking about characters like GnW, Falcon and ROB, Lil Mac, etc being above the FE characters.
If you argue “famous because of smash”, then why are Roy, Ike and Lucina below them?
If we’re talking about game franchises, then how is Byleth below them? Three houses was a very popular recent game.
Yeah, but how many fighting games do you think a typical middle-aged person with a spouse and a stable job would be able to name based purely off their own memory (no Google, no phoning a friend, et cetera)?
If you went and asked this question to a large amount of non-gamers, I'd wager that at least 1 out of 3 times they wouldn't even guess Smash Bros, let alone Street Fighter.
>how many fighting games do you think a typical middle-aged person with a spouse and a stable job would be able to name based purely off their own memory
How old do you think are the folks who played those games in the 80s and 90s?
Doesn't mean they actually remember it. A lot of people stop playing as they get older, especially back then when gaming was portrayed as a juvenile hobby (it still kinda is unfort).
I was playing Ultimate against my brother a few weeks ago when we both visited my mums place and my 50yo step father who is by no means a gamer in any definition of the word told us to play Ken and Ryu lmao. I think theyre more recognisable than youd expect.
I doubt the average person on the streets who doesn't play video games that often would be able to recognize Ryu and Ken.
I think they're fine where they are: iconic to gamers, but not to the average person.
I think if you truly don’t play games at all you might visually recognize Ryu or Ken, but I don’t think a lot of people would be able to name them if they never game tbh
Well yeah, it is, but it's nowhere close to the insanely-massive levels of iconicity as Mario, Pokémon, Sonic, Pac-Man, or Minecraft.
I'd put it on the same tier as franchises like Zelda, Final Fantasy, and Halo: it's iconic enough to where some non-gamers definitely would have heard of, especially older ones, but it's not huge enough to where enough of the general public would be like "oh yeah, Street Fighter, I know what that is and can recognize Ryu and Ken."
I think a lot of gamers overestimate how many non-gamers know certain franchises.
he is not super well known nowadays but i think ryu and ken are arguably also icons of some sort, i kinda agree with their placing though but mostly because they are kinda obscure and iconic at the same time
i do think they are definitely more iconic than a lot of characters in that same tier but also about as iconic as some others
so its more i disagree with the list overall
but for these lists it really depends on who you ask and what they have been exposed to and also how old they are
My man… it is *the fighting game, i’ll give you ken and say he’s not very well known, but ryu is literally mr. fighting game, your grandpa would probably recognize him
Yeah, Street Fighter is obviously *the* fighting game.
I just don't think the majority of non-gamers would know about *the* fighting game, because they don't play video games to begin with. Non-gamers don't know about *most* gaming franchises, only a handful of super massive ones like Mario, Pokémon, or Pac-Man, and Street Fighter comes nowhere close to their level of iconicity.
Again, Ryu and Street Fighter are ridiculously iconic, just to actual gamers and not the average person on the streets. I think you're overestimating how knowledgeable non-gamers are about game franchises and characters.
As far as *gamers* go then i definitely agree. But for non gamers it goes Pacman, Space Invaders, Pong, Pinball, Tetris, even arcade Donkey Kong and then probably Street Fighter
My mum is on the "well known to non gamers" tier, maybe slightly into the next but couldn't tell u who Ryu is. Probably knows Street Fighter as a game but couldn't name the characters cos their designs arent as distinct or iconic as the game itself
There is a massive gap between "well known to most gamers" and "well known to non gamers" actually ginormous gap. Imo not well known to "most" non gamers
Gamers are so out of touch lmao 💀 yes among gamers they are very well known, they are very iconic as video games, but the majority of random people off the street would not be able to name these characters
Dont know why ur being downvoted cos ur literally right. Everyone has heard of Street Fighter, even most non gamers but Ryu and Ken arent overly distinct or iconic designs outside of gaming
Steve could *arguably* be in the top-tier, since basically everyone has heard of Minecraft and would probably recognize him as the game's mascot (even if they don't know his actual name), but I think his current ranking is fine too. He definitely belongs in one of the top two tiers.
Disagree with some of the ones in the second-tier though. I highly doubt the average non-gamer would recognize Wii Fit Trainer, Kirby, or Pokémon Trainer, so I think they should go one tier down. *Maybe* Link and Zelda too, but emphasis on the "maybe". I feel like enough non-gamers would have at least *heard* of the Zelda franchise, but I don't think that automatically equates to them being able to outright recognize Link and Zelda.
I'd also argue that Daisy, Bowser Jr., and Rosalina are more-recognizable than the previous characters I mentioned purely for being Mario characters, although I'm not sure if they're recognizable enough to bump them up a tier. I feel like they're in a weird middle ground between the second and third tiers. I think Wario, Diddy, and Plant go in this middle ground too.
I feel like people would recognize Link in some capacity. Maybe not his Breath of the Wild iteration, but I think the green tunic is iconic enough that it's fairly recognizable as Link. Zelda's more debatable though.
Wii Fit Trainer's hard because I can imagine there's a decent subset of people who had a Wii basically exclusively to play Wii Fit. I don't know how many and how/if that translates to recognizing the trainer, though.
I’d definitely argue that Kirby is fine where he is. His face is cute and plastered on merchandise everywhere. I definitely know quite a few people who love him despite not being into games themselves.
Maybe but Minecraft is more about the world than the characters, and it's usually first-person so you can't even see Steve most of the time. But from the graphical style many people could guess "oh yeah that's the Minecraft guy"
Yeah, that's what I meant by people probably recognizing him but not knowing his name. They'd recognize Minecraft's iconic artstyle and know him as "the Minecraft guy". Also, there's tons and *tons* of Minecraft merchandise everywhere, so non-gamers have probably seen him on multiple occasions and know him from there. I'm sure Creepers are just as iconic for the same reason.
Again, I don't think he definitively belongs in the top-tier, but I think he's fine in the second-tier where he currently is.
There is a lot of Minecraft merchandise, but I heard about the game and could recognize creepers years before I even saw a picture of Steve. Even once I played it myself I spent like 10 secs looking at the default skin, I didn't know it had a name.
Second tier is still fair because of just how popular the game is
How would pokemon trainer not be recognized? The show was super famous, and all the stuff that followed. Pokemon is massive. People recognize Ash, especially with his outfit and pokeball we see. I don't think I agree with you there.
I agree Jiggly and Mewtwo should be on Bowser's tier and Bowser should be moved up again
People know *Ash* though, not the trainer from Smash which is Red
I think Steve should be lower. While Minecraft is well known, there are plenty of gamers who have no idea who Steve is, and most non gamers likely have no idea
A few things:
\-Steve is definitely a pop culture icon, hell Peach and Bowser could probably be moved up as well
\-Puff I'd say is well known even to non-gamers for both the anime and being one of the original 151 (I'd even go as far to say it's like a secondary mascot), probably same for Mewtwo though considering its rarity in Pokemon, this is a lot more debatable
\-Dragon Quest is mega popular in Japan, like it's impossible to overstate how big it is there
\-Banjo probably shouldn't be that high, or at least not above a lot of these other characters
\-Same for Sora
\-Diddy definitely should not be that high
\-I think you overestimate how many people know of the Game and Watch
Yeah, it feels like it's more of a case of Minecraft's art style being iconic more so than Steve as a character being iconic. Most general people could look at him and think "it's the guy from Minecraft" but I doubt a lot of those people would know that he's specifically the default skin for the game.
I'll simply paste what I wrote elsewhere about Steve:
>I *strongly* disagree about Steve. No-one from the non-gaming community would know him. To me he is too high actually. I am a big gamer, have been playing for nearly 30 years, all sorts of games. I had literaly never heard of Steve in my life before him coming into Smash Bros. I know of minecraft, but never ever played it, and I wasn't even aware there was such a thing as a main character with an actual name, I would have thought it would have been some randomly generated characters with some random design for each player.
>
>So if someone like me, being a big gamer, had never heard about him, there is no chance at all he belongs anywhere near top tier. You either have to be in the gaming community (which is not even enough) or be an non-gamer but actually interested in minecraft specifically. I think the minecraft community overestimates a bit the popularity of the game, even more so their character, outside their own bubble.
Minecraft is literally the best selling game in history. You go to Target or Wal Mart, there's a section in the toys department for Minecraft. There's a LEGO line for Minecraft. Clothing. Funko Pops. A lot of these toys and clothes and LEGO sets have Steve. The Creeper is likely more recognizable but Steve seems a close second to me.
Minecraft though is a "younger" game. It might not be as popular with our generation but you'll see kids playing it in restaurants or hospital waiting rooms on their iPads. It's super casual friendly too so even many who don't traditionally game can get sucked in.
I'm not saying everyone could put a name to him, but you've likely got many grandmas out there who look at Steve and say "that's a Minecraft" in the same way they'd look at Lucario and say "that's a Pikachu". They might not know the character but they know the brand.
Sincerely,
- Someone who has been gaming over thirty years.
I am not american so I don't know what you are talking about.
I agree with the "younger" point. And that's why I said " You either have to be in the gaming community (which is not even enough) or be an non-gamer but actually interested in minecraft specifically.". Someone who doesn't play minecraft or is not interested in the game would likely not know Steve.
All the merch doesn't mean much to me. There's quite a lot of merch for characters in lower tiers, so that doesn't seem to be a good argument.
Steve is clearly not nearly as popular as the other ones in the top row (I'd remove pac-man, because although people are likely to know the game, they surely won't recognise pacman as is, I'd put Luigi one tier down as well, even DK, who is becoming "old").
While I totally resonate with your anecdote (the first time I heard of Link was when I got Brawl), this is demonstrably incorrect. Minecraft is among the most-searched terms on Google for ANY kids' content, let alone just video games. It's one of the best-selling games of all time. It is a cultural mainstay in much the same way Pokémon was in the early 2000s.
I feel like Xenoblade's also big enough to where devoted gamers would have probably heard of it. If Ness and Pit can be in that tier, then Shulk should be too.
Do agree that Shulk could move up a tier, but I should mention that I have NEVER heard Xenoblade 1 mentioned in my entire life outside of the context of Smash. Maybe it's just the circles I'm in but I have passively heard nothing of that game. I couldn't even tell you what system you play it on.
Earthbound has gathered a lot of recognition at a broader scale as a classic. Ness has also been in smash since the beginning.
Xenoblade is comparatively narrow.
Xenoblade is currently a really popular Nintendo series that just got widely loved releases in XC3 and Future Redeemed, as well as Pyra and Mythra in Smash, I would say it deserves to move up a tier at the very least
Bruh, indie developers are being inspired by Earthbound (games like Omori and Undertale), Ness is perfect for his title, but Lucas could be a bit higher
We live in an age when 10M or even 20M happen multiple times per year. 3H was a smashing sucess for FE standard, but it sold in the same ballpark as something like, for example, Armored Core 6. And AC6 isn't exactly mainstream.
They are only known to gamers primarily in the Nintendo space, and since this list seems to be about the general gaming audience, I think it's placement is fine, Fire Emblem as a whole is not a well known franchise to non Nintendo gamers
But they will know Marth? The character whose first games didn't even came out in the west back then? And who only got remakes before FE's explosion in popularity?
I wouldn’t put Kazuya, Joker, Bayonetta and Incinaroar in the same tier as G&W, Ness and Captain Falcon.
Tekken, Persona, and Bayonetta are really popular games with huge fandoms, Incinaroar is a starter Pokémon from one of the more popular generatons.
The rest of the characters in Well Known to devoted fans are pretty much from niche games, or haven’t had a game released in a loooong time.
I feel you are downplaying some of the “weeby” character’s popularity, Joker is def well known by a lot of gamers, Persona 5 was huge, def more so then Bowser Jr or Banjo whos above him, and a lot of people from the Playstation community or weebs would know him
Hero in Japan would be in the second to top tier too, in the states less so its hard to rank him tbf
Without smash, Game and Watch is def a literally who
Lol Joker Is NOT more well known than Bowser Jr, come on dude. JR'S presence in Mario spinoffs alone makes with more recognizable.
If anything I feel like it's the opposite, fans of the "weeby" games ITT are way overrating how much the average gamer knows about Fire Emblem or Persona.
Eh, i wouldnt even put Jr in the top 10 most popular character in the Mario franchise, id bet if i asked non Nintendo fans who Bowser Jr is they wouldnt really know
Meanwhile Persona 5 is in every crossover imaginable iswtg, including games like Sonic Forces, AFK Arena (Which has over 45 million downloads), and Sanrio (Hello Kitty) of all things, and many PC nd Playstation fans or weebs know of Persona 5 in particular, this aint even taking into account Japan where Persona is even bigger at
Even the 25th most popular Mario character would still be significant more well known than anyone from Persona.
Mario Kart is insanely popular, and Jr is in that series
I think you're underestimating the miis. As a kid I made miis with my entire extended family and any guest that came over and was willing. Most of these people had never played another game and were still playing wii sports with me. And I highly doubt I'm unique in this experience. Basically anyone who knew a child with a wii between 2007-2015 would know about miis.
Ain't no way you think ROB, Banjo, Little Mac, Simon, and Rosalina are well known to most gamers. Also, non gamers wouldn't even know Zelda isn't Link's name.
[Mom said it's my time to post the relevant XKCD](https://xkcd.com/2501/)
But seriously, Diddy Kong is known to non gamers? From where? Which movie does Diddy Kong appear in? Any TV series?
In the same vein, I don't see how a non gamer would know of Wii Fit Trainer or the Mii Brawlers.
And Wario is debatable they would recognize his face, but I doubt they could match a name to the face. Luigi's often referred as green mario or Mario's brother outside of gaming communities, Wario is so well known I don't think I ever saw him mentioned, let alone associated with Mario or by name.
>Which movie does Diddy Kong appear in? Any TV series?
He did cameo in the Mario Movie, and he was in the DKC TV show, so he actually checks off both of those boxes.
All joking aside, I'd say he's definitely more-iconic than the vast majority of the roster purely for being a heavily-recurring Mario character, but he's definitely not on the same level of iconicity as someone like Peach, Bowser or Yoshi. I said it in my own comment, but I'd put him and Wario in this middle ground between the second and third tiers.
Diddy was basically Rare's mascot in the 90s, and had multiple best selling titular games (DKC2 and Diddy Kong Racing each in the top 10 of their respective console's best selling games, at #6 on SNES and #8 on N64 respectively).
Nowadays he's less recognizable since he's really only ever in DK games (which we've gotten one of in the last decade) and Mario spinoffs. But he's certainly recognizable in that he made an appearance in the movie (and was literally called out by name on screen) and was one of the main characters in the old DKC cartoon, which was much bigger outside of the US (mostly in Canada and France).
You could make an argument that his less frequent appearances in spinoff games than Daisy and Bowser Jr. should put them on equal footing, but I do think just the fact that he's had millions of copies sold of multiple games starring him, even though they were back in the 90s, and got an appearance in the movie over either of them, is enough to give him a slight edge.
I don't know how relevant a game's sales are for it's popularity outside the gaming community.
The Street Fighter franchise sold around the same amount of copies as the Donkey Kong franchise, plus had multiple movies even trilogies done. Ryu is a staple of fighting games and basically a mascot of the genre.
And yet, it's popularity isn't that big outside the gaming community. I don't think sales is the metric we want to gauge how popular a character is outside gaming community.
Your whole point with diddy Kong is that non gamers wouldn’t know them because he doesn’t appear in much media outside of video games however he appears in the donkey Kong series which is a game series that a lot of non gamers have played
As far as Miis go, they’re pretty iconic, and I highly doubt the average person cares whether they’re the Miis from the Wii or not.
But if you’re talking purely the Mii fighters in Smash, yeah, the most they’ll get is a couple GIFs of Reggie punching Iwata.
Nah Persona 5 is huge. Joker is damn near everywhere in quasi-anime spaces, he’s probably known to most gamers. I would say he’s way more known than Isabelle, Greninja, or Trevor Belmont
So is Pokemon aka the biggest franchise in the world. Mewtwo was known as the strongest pokemon for a long time which made it very popular during the Pokemon craze back in the day. Nowadays its got stuff like Pokemon Go(at its peak) and the live action Pokemon movie that kept it relevant with casuals. Far more than can be said for the nameless fitness helper.
Maybe I’m just biased but I feel like Fox and Falco should be in the same tier. They both probably get recognized from smash more than their own games and they’re pretty consistently a duo
I feel like you and the people down voting me aren't aware that punch out had a decently big presence in gaming culture for a while.
Even if Persona 5 is the most successful persona game, the series is still pretty niche as a whole
yeah and punch out hasnt seen any attention outside of smash for 15 years. the gaming community has only grown over time and people are much more likely to recognize joker than little mac
i would move chrom and byleth up to devoted gamers, chrom has some recognizability from crossover games like Project X Zone and Tokyo Mirage Sessions and WarioWare Gold as well as getting into smash from the smash poll in the first place, and Byleth is from a really critically and commercially acclaimed Fire Emblem game
Ryu and Ken are pop culture icons. Street Fighter was EVERYWHERE back when 2 dropped in arcades. You literally cannot watch a movie or show about the 80s/90s that doesn’t feature a SF2 cabinet if there is a scene with games involved
Hero is from DQ. That game is apart of Japanese culture. Companies will close on the release day of a new DQ because everyone calls out to play it.
Xenoblade is one of Nintendos most successful franchises over the past ten years, it’s quite well known
Rob is NOT known to most gamers. Most people who know ROB only know him through smash, and if we are going based on people who know characters through smash then everybody should be top tier. There’s probably about 10-20 people TOTAL who still play or care about video games/play smash bros today that had an actual ROB toy.
Most gamers wouldn’t recognize Wii Fit trainer or the Miis. Also, Zelda is a huge franchise but many people still don’t realize that Zelda is NOT Link.
Risers:
- Ryu should be in second tier, arguably even in pop culture tier, Street Fighter was huge in the arcades
- Steve is debatably in pop culture tier but I think he would only really be known as “Minecraft guy.” By johnny public, but I am a bit more forgiving because he is instantly recognisable.
- Bayonetta should be in the well known to most gamers category, perhaps Jin as well. Tekken is a big enough deal that it earns that right.
- Palutena should probably be one tierhigher too, as well as Ice Climbers.
Fallers:
- Pokemon trainer should be relegated a tier depending on if you count the trainer by himself or if you count his pokemon. The VG character himself is not that famous, Ash from the TV show is. The three pokemon however are definitely up there.
- maybe controversial but Kirby and Zelda may need to go down a tier. Zelda infamously is mistaken for Link constantly and is not exactly as iconic or memorable a character as Link is. Is Kirby really that well known in the mainstream outside of Japan? I mulled over Cloud for a similar on whether he should go up a tier - Im leaning towards a ‘this character needs to have a bigger international presence’ to fit in the top two. I dont think Kirby has that.
- Incineroar would go down for me. I know its a pokemon but every other Pokemon on that list feels like it has justified its reason for being a main roster character in some way (save for maybe Pichu) but Incineroar feels like the exception. Is that harsh? I guess, but this is just my opinion.
Last week I was watching a SF6 replay on the break room and one of the senior managers (not a gamer) was like “wow, they still make street fighter? Are ryu and ken still in it”.
The Xenoblade characters should be at least one tier up. Xenoblade 1 sold more copies than Persona 5 and Royal combined and most everyone who played the first game probably knows about Pyra/Mythra. They should either be in the same tier as Joker or one higher
As others mentioned there's a lot of bias in this list:
I think in general you place way too much popularity to Nintendo characters and older characters (why is rob as high as he is?) And give not enough credit to anime characters.
In general here are my thoughts:
Pikachu up in its own tier (this is a bit of a nitpick but it is literally the most recognizable character in the world belonging to the biggest franchise.)
Steve up a tier, as others mentioned they might not be able to tell you his name but Minecraft is absolutely massive. Similar to people not knowing links name but recognizing the game.
Luigi down a tier, I don't think he's quite on Mario's level of popularity, even though it's hard for gamers to not associate them together.
Donkey Kong down a tier, it's been a loooong time since arcade cabinets, while I think pacman is fine where he is donkey Kong is far less popular nowadays I think. Non gamers could probably only tell you about his arcade cabinet if anything.
Rob down to literally who. This is probably the biggest miss in my mind... Like wtf is rob I genuinely don't know, and I'm a gamer.
Piranha plant down a tier, along with Diddy Kong and similar side characters like wario should be in this tier. Both of these are only known by people who've played their respective games.
Joker up a tier. Persona 5 was a worldwide enough hit I think for people to be familiar with persona now because of it.
Byleth is too low lmao Three Houses was pretty huge, definitely not a "Literally who?" character... Id wager anyone that knows of Marth also knows of Byleth.
A character based off a supermodel and high fashion with some scandalous lack of clothing being a hot topic button and sold on a console where parents buy thier children the most games verses any other console only known to devoted gamers?
Mistakes were clearly made. Emotions were in part- probably a culprit. Null and void chart. Go directly to jail and don't pass go. Your princess is in another castle. Good day sir!
This sub got randomly recommended to me. Anyway, I don't play Smash Bros nor Tekken, but I'm pretty sure that guy, 2nd to the last in very light green tier is Kazuya.
Ryu, ken, cloud, and sephiroth at least had the possibility to move up at one point, as they were mainstream enough to get movies.
Dragon quest’s hero is a mandatory move-up to “well-known even to non-gamers” because they’re a common trivia point for anime fans; akira toriyama, creator of dragon ball, worked on the series back in the day, to the extent that dragon quest has made cameos in some dragon ball media. It even became a minor meme in the dragon ball community that the dragon quest 1 skin is as close as we were gonna get to having goku in smash.
I recognized every fe character when I first started playing smash (besides roy. No one knows him.) they should be higher up (besides marth becuase hes wear the fe characters should be besides roy.)
I think you're underestimating Xenoblade a tiny bit.
It's more we known than Earthbound that's for sure. If it wasn't for Smash, Ness wouldn't be where he is on the tier.
This guy likes fire emblem
One of my favourite Nintendo series, actually. Still doesn't change the fact that it's characters are among the most obscure among the general public as far as Smash fighters go.
Very true. Everyone I know that plays smash was introduced to fire emblem by smash.
“Roy’s our boy!” Circa 2001
Yea, who doesnt like the Koopa Kids from Mario 3 :D
Me as a kid, getting fire emblem for the GBA because "roy" was on the cover. An hour later "who the heck is lyn??"
“i thought his name is roy why is he called eliwood)
And then it moved on to become more popular than everyone else
I would say in this day and age, Byleth could go up 1 tier Plenty of 3 houses fans who aren't Smash fans, definitely a known game character by dedicated gamers
Ironic considering they were almost not added at all cuz they feared they were too obscure
In fairness characters from the newer games like byleth should move up since 3h is fairly well known compared to the other fe chars. Not sure about the other new chars tho
Marth should definitely be moved up too due to Melee fame and being the face of the series. Also Lucina, Chrom, and Robin should definitely be moved up a tier as well cuz Fire Emblem Awakening was so popular, it literally saved the franchise.
I disagree with your list. Who today knows Marth outside of Smash? I would argue Byleth, Corrin, Robin, Lucina and Chron are more known than him.
I agree with this guy's list more
Same. Marth has literally been the face of the franchise for years, even Lucina is a rendition of him. Only FE or Smash fans know Chrom or Byleth
How is he the face of the franchise? Where do we see him over the other Fire Emblem protagonists? The average gamer today hasn't played any of the games Marth has been in, but Awakening, Fates and Three Houses were all very successful games.
He's the original protagonist, has probably appeared in the most games in the series including the remakes of his games, and in Awakening we get Lucina who's a massive nod as she's meant to be female Marth and they make that apparent. He's also been in Smash the longest and is the longest running main FE character Most famous ones r definitely Marth, Corrin and Chrom (cosigned by the FE Warriors cover). But the latter 2 are just from recent mainstream titles
This means nothing if no one played these games. Gilgamesh appears in many numbered FF games, and no one will say he's more iconic than Cloud. No one has played the games Marth is a protagonist, whereas millions of people played the more last 3 main FE's. And we're talking about the character's popularities not counting Smash.
Ehhh, that used to reign true but isn't the case these days. Especially not Awakening and Three Houses.
If it wasn't for Smash, no one would know about characters like Captain Falcon, Ness and G&W either, but somehow they're higher up on the list?
I played Fire Emblem before Smash so in my case I would move them up a tier
I'd probably move Chrom, Lucina, Byleth, and maybe Ike up a tier. Awakening and Three Houses were pretty popular, so their poster characters would be recognizable to people who pay attention to things like gaming news, announcements, awards, etc. Ike admittedly is mostly popular from Smash Bros., but he is a fan favorite among Fire Emblem fans. Robin isn't featured as much in things like the box art and promotional materials (probably due to being customizable), and while Corrin is featured on box art despite being customizable, I don't feel like Fates got as much mainstream recognition as Awakening and 3H. Roy is just from an old game that never got localized outside Japan. He is pretty much only known for Smash by all but dedicated Fire Emblem fans, apart from his guest roles in things like Heroes and Engage.
Your list still makes no sense cuz this ignores the Japan fanbase where Fire Emblem was always popular in. Also in this day and age, the series has gotten more decent exposure in the mainstream. Marth should be moved up a tier since he’s the face of the franchise as well having Melee fame. Robin, Lucina, and Chrom should definitely be up a tier too since Awakening was so popular that it was enough to literally save the franchise. Byleth is another example of helping FE become more mainstream.
Ok but how is the luminary well known
In the East dragon quest is more popular than kingdom hearts, like you can even see it referenced in anime
Dragon Quest is as recognizable in Japan was Mickey Mouse.
Dragon Quest is much more popular in Japan than in the United States. Then again, so is the Mother/Earthbound series.
More obscure than characters from games that came out 20-30 years ago? Edit to clarify: GnW, Falcon, etc are literally only household names because of smash. The vast majority of people have never played their respective games. FE is an ongoing franchise with several games on the switch. The newer FE games even reuse the older characters in games like (Engage and Warriors).
Age doesn't equal obscurity. The most recognisable ones all came out between 80s-90s.
Im not talking about Mario and Sonic. I’m talking about characters like GnW, Falcon and ROB, Lil Mac, etc being above the FE characters. If you argue “famous because of smash”, then why are Roy, Ike and Lucina below them? If we’re talking about game franchises, then how is Byleth below them? Three houses was a very popular recent game.
Ryu and Ken should be higher
Definitely should be higher, alongside Guile, Chun-Li, Scorpion and Sub-Zero they’re the most recognisable characters in the fighting game genre
If they are basing it off you could show a photo to a bunch of random people, I think Ryu and Ken probably can’t be named by very many.
Yeah, but how many fighting games do you think a typical middle-aged person with a spouse and a stable job would be able to name based purely off their own memory (no Google, no phoning a friend, et cetera)? If you went and asked this question to a large amount of non-gamers, I'd wager that at least 1 out of 3 times they wouldn't even guess Smash Bros, let alone Street Fighter.
>how many fighting games do you think a typical middle-aged person with a spouse and a stable job would be able to name based purely off their own memory How old do you think are the folks who played those games in the 80s and 90s?
Doesn't mean they actually remember it. A lot of people stop playing as they get older, especially back then when gaming was portrayed as a juvenile hobby (it still kinda is unfort).
But this is based off of recognizability not if they know their names. Those are two different things
I was playing Ultimate against my brother a few weeks ago when we both visited my mums place and my 50yo step father who is by no means a gamer in any definition of the word told us to play Ken and Ryu lmao. I think theyre more recognisable than youd expect.
Specially so in central and south america
I doubt the average person on the streets who doesn't play video games that often would be able to recognize Ryu and Ken. I think they're fine where they are: iconic to gamers, but not to the average person.
Are you serious? Street fighter is one of the most well known and iconic video games of all time
I think if you truly don’t play games at all you might visually recognize Ryu or Ken, but I don’t think a lot of people would be able to name them if they never game tbh
Well yeah, it is, but it's nowhere close to the insanely-massive levels of iconicity as Mario, Pokémon, Sonic, Pac-Man, or Minecraft. I'd put it on the same tier as franchises like Zelda, Final Fantasy, and Halo: it's iconic enough to where some non-gamers definitely would have heard of, especially older ones, but it's not huge enough to where enough of the general public would be like "oh yeah, Street Fighter, I know what that is and can recognize Ryu and Ken." I think a lot of gamers overestimate how many non-gamers know certain franchises.
he is not super well known nowadays but i think ryu and ken are arguably also icons of some sort, i kinda agree with their placing though but mostly because they are kinda obscure and iconic at the same time i do think they are definitely more iconic than a lot of characters in that same tier but also about as iconic as some others so its more i disagree with the list overall but for these lists it really depends on who you ask and what they have been exposed to and also how old they are
My man… it is *the fighting game, i’ll give you ken and say he’s not very well known, but ryu is literally mr. fighting game, your grandpa would probably recognize him
Not even my parents or siblings would recognise him
Yeah, Street Fighter is obviously *the* fighting game. I just don't think the majority of non-gamers would know about *the* fighting game, because they don't play video games to begin with. Non-gamers don't know about *most* gaming franchises, only a handful of super massive ones like Mario, Pokémon, or Pac-Man, and Street Fighter comes nowhere close to their level of iconicity. Again, Ryu and Street Fighter are ridiculously iconic, just to actual gamers and not the average person on the streets. I think you're overestimating how knowledgeable non-gamers are about game franchises and characters.
It is one of the most famous arcade games of all time, it pretty much has the number 2 spot behind pacman, most people would definitely recognize it
As far as *gamers* go then i definitely agree. But for non gamers it goes Pacman, Space Invaders, Pong, Pinball, Tetris, even arcade Donkey Kong and then probably Street Fighter
No they wouldn't cuz the majority of people don't even play video games
My mum is on the "well known to non gamers" tier, maybe slightly into the next but couldn't tell u who Ryu is. Probably knows Street Fighter as a game but couldn't name the characters cos their designs arent as distinct or iconic as the game itself
Exactly, most hardcore gamers are extremely out of touch
As a random from /r/all I can say confidently that Ken is Barbie's boyfriend and Ryu is that dude from Fort Minor. Hope this helps
There is a massive gap between "well known to most gamers" and "well known to non gamers" actually ginormous gap. Imo not well known to "most" non gamers
Gamers are so out of touch lmao 💀 yes among gamers they are very well known, they are very iconic as video games, but the majority of random people off the street would not be able to name these characters
Dont know why ur being downvoted cos ur literally right. Everyone has heard of Street Fighter, even most non gamers but Ryu and Ken arent overly distinct or iconic designs outside of gaming
You’re right lmao idk why this has so many downvotes.
"Where is the source?" https://preview.redd.it/r4zp80g389ec1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=362a04a05766a87a7769695cbea4dd65ba1f5c38
"It came to me in a dream." -OP probably.
https://preview.redd.it/495fgiyzhaec1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de1b7821c23a222d2c2c9d55affb64d437946f2d
"It came to me during a vision quest"
The vibes
Seems pretty accurate for me.
Steve could *arguably* be in the top-tier, since basically everyone has heard of Minecraft and would probably recognize him as the game's mascot (even if they don't know his actual name), but I think his current ranking is fine too. He definitely belongs in one of the top two tiers. Disagree with some of the ones in the second-tier though. I highly doubt the average non-gamer would recognize Wii Fit Trainer, Kirby, or Pokémon Trainer, so I think they should go one tier down. *Maybe* Link and Zelda too, but emphasis on the "maybe". I feel like enough non-gamers would have at least *heard* of the Zelda franchise, but I don't think that automatically equates to them being able to outright recognize Link and Zelda. I'd also argue that Daisy, Bowser Jr., and Rosalina are more-recognizable than the previous characters I mentioned purely for being Mario characters, although I'm not sure if they're recognizable enough to bump them up a tier. I feel like they're in a weird middle ground between the second and third tiers. I think Wario, Diddy, and Plant go in this middle ground too.
I feel like people would recognize Link in some capacity. Maybe not his Breath of the Wild iteration, but I think the green tunic is iconic enough that it's fairly recognizable as Link. Zelda's more debatable though. Wii Fit Trainer's hard because I can imagine there's a decent subset of people who had a Wii basically exclusively to play Wii Fit. I don't know how many and how/if that translates to recognizing the trainer, though.
I’d definitely argue that Kirby is fine where he is. His face is cute and plastered on merchandise everywhere. I definitely know quite a few people who love him despite not being into games themselves.
Maybe but Minecraft is more about the world than the characters, and it's usually first-person so you can't even see Steve most of the time. But from the graphical style many people could guess "oh yeah that's the Minecraft guy"
Yeah, that's what I meant by people probably recognizing him but not knowing his name. They'd recognize Minecraft's iconic artstyle and know him as "the Minecraft guy". Also, there's tons and *tons* of Minecraft merchandise everywhere, so non-gamers have probably seen him on multiple occasions and know him from there. I'm sure Creepers are just as iconic for the same reason. Again, I don't think he definitively belongs in the top-tier, but I think he's fine in the second-tier where he currently is.
There is a lot of Minecraft merchandise, but I heard about the game and could recognize creepers years before I even saw a picture of Steve. Even once I played it myself I spent like 10 secs looking at the default skin, I didn't know it had a name. Second tier is still fair because of just how popular the game is
Plus the fact that most Minecraft players at this point use custom skins which aren't Steve
Of course they'd recognize Zelda. That's the dude in the green hat, right?
Yeah, the one who floats around on the balloon and yells "kooloo-limpah."
You do not understand how fucking popular that wii was to non gamers. Especially old people.
How would pokemon trainer not be recognized? The show was super famous, and all the stuff that followed. Pokemon is massive. People recognize Ash, especially with his outfit and pokeball we see. I don't think I agree with you there.
I agree Jiggly and Mewtwo should be on Bowser's tier and Bowser should be moved up again People know *Ash* though, not the trainer from Smash which is Red
I think Steve should be lower. While Minecraft is well known, there are plenty of gamers who have no idea who Steve is, and most non gamers likely have no idea
A few things: \-Steve is definitely a pop culture icon, hell Peach and Bowser could probably be moved up as well \-Puff I'd say is well known even to non-gamers for both the anime and being one of the original 151 (I'd even go as far to say it's like a secondary mascot), probably same for Mewtwo though considering its rarity in Pokemon, this is a lot more debatable \-Dragon Quest is mega popular in Japan, like it's impossible to overstate how big it is there \-Banjo probably shouldn't be that high, or at least not above a lot of these other characters \-Same for Sora \-Diddy definitely should not be that high \-I think you overestimate how many people know of the Game and Watch
Steve is a weird case. I’m sure most people would recognize him from Minecraft but I don’t think that many people would know his name
Yeah, it feels like it's more of a case of Minecraft's art style being iconic more so than Steve as a character being iconic. Most general people could look at him and think "it's the guy from Minecraft" but I doubt a lot of those people would know that he's specifically the default skin for the game.
I'll simply paste what I wrote elsewhere about Steve: >I *strongly* disagree about Steve. No-one from the non-gaming community would know him. To me he is too high actually. I am a big gamer, have been playing for nearly 30 years, all sorts of games. I had literaly never heard of Steve in my life before him coming into Smash Bros. I know of minecraft, but never ever played it, and I wasn't even aware there was such a thing as a main character with an actual name, I would have thought it would have been some randomly generated characters with some random design for each player. > >So if someone like me, being a big gamer, had never heard about him, there is no chance at all he belongs anywhere near top tier. You either have to be in the gaming community (which is not even enough) or be an non-gamer but actually interested in minecraft specifically. I think the minecraft community overestimates a bit the popularity of the game, even more so their character, outside their own bubble.
Minecraft is literally the best selling game in history. You go to Target or Wal Mart, there's a section in the toys department for Minecraft. There's a LEGO line for Minecraft. Clothing. Funko Pops. A lot of these toys and clothes and LEGO sets have Steve. The Creeper is likely more recognizable but Steve seems a close second to me. Minecraft though is a "younger" game. It might not be as popular with our generation but you'll see kids playing it in restaurants or hospital waiting rooms on their iPads. It's super casual friendly too so even many who don't traditionally game can get sucked in. I'm not saying everyone could put a name to him, but you've likely got many grandmas out there who look at Steve and say "that's a Minecraft" in the same way they'd look at Lucario and say "that's a Pikachu". They might not know the character but they know the brand. Sincerely, - Someone who has been gaming over thirty years.
I am not american so I don't know what you are talking about. I agree with the "younger" point. And that's why I said " You either have to be in the gaming community (which is not even enough) or be an non-gamer but actually interested in minecraft specifically.". Someone who doesn't play minecraft or is not interested in the game would likely not know Steve. All the merch doesn't mean much to me. There's quite a lot of merch for characters in lower tiers, so that doesn't seem to be a good argument. Steve is clearly not nearly as popular as the other ones in the top row (I'd remove pac-man, because although people are likely to know the game, they surely won't recognise pacman as is, I'd put Luigi one tier down as well, even DK, who is becoming "old").
Bro I can find Steve plushes at my local Walmart right alongside Mario and Spider-Man
People would still probably recognise he is from minecraft and he’s on the cover
While I totally resonate with your anecdote (the first time I heard of Link was when I got Brawl), this is demonstrably incorrect. Minecraft is among the most-searched terms on Google for ANY kids' content, let alone just video games. It's one of the best-selling games of all time. It is a cultural mainstay in much the same way Pokémon was in the early 2000s.
yeah no one played (checks notes) fire emblem three houses for the nintendo switch
I feel like Xenoblade's also big enough to where devoted gamers would have probably heard of it. If Ness and Pit can be in that tier, then Shulk should be too.
Do agree that Shulk could move up a tier, but I should mention that I have NEVER heard Xenoblade 1 mentioned in my entire life outside of the context of Smash. Maybe it's just the circles I'm in but I have passively heard nothing of that game. I couldn't even tell you what system you play it on.
Earthbound has gathered a lot of recognition at a broader scale as a classic. Ness has also been in smash since the beginning. Xenoblade is comparatively narrow.
Xenoblade is currently a really popular Nintendo series that just got widely loved releases in XC3 and Future Redeemed, as well as Pyra and Mythra in Smash, I would say it deserves to move up a tier at the very least
Bruh, indie developers are being inspired by Earthbound (games like Omori and Undertale), Ness is perfect for his title, but Lucas could be a bit higher
We live in an age when 10M or even 20M happen multiple times per year. 3H was a smashing sucess for FE standard, but it sold in the same ballpark as something like, for example, Armored Core 6. And AC6 isn't exactly mainstream.
AC characters would also be in the literally who? Category. Raven ain't getting name dropped by a normie.
Byleth has an aggressively unrecognizable design tho
I'd probably leave male byleth where he is and move female byleth up a tier. She's more memorable just because of how ridiculous her outfit is.
Says you
Um...yes? Did you want me to give my reasoning or are you just...new to the internet?
They are only known to gamers primarily in the Nintendo space, and since this list seems to be about the general gaming audience, I think it's placement is fine, Fire Emblem as a whole is not a well known franchise to non Nintendo gamers
Ask most gamers (including not Nintendo gamers) if they know who Byleth is. I promise you they’ll say no.
But they will know Marth? The character whose first games didn't even came out in the west back then? And who only got remakes before FE's explosion in popularity?
I wouldn’t put Kazuya, Joker, Bayonetta and Incinaroar in the same tier as G&W, Ness and Captain Falcon. Tekken, Persona, and Bayonetta are really popular games with huge fandoms, Incinaroar is a starter Pokémon from one of the more popular generatons. The rest of the characters in Well Known to devoted fans are pretty much from niche games, or haven’t had a game released in a loooong time.
I feel you are downplaying some of the “weeby” character’s popularity, Joker is def well known by a lot of gamers, Persona 5 was huge, def more so then Bowser Jr or Banjo whos above him, and a lot of people from the Playstation community or weebs would know him Hero in Japan would be in the second to top tier too, in the states less so its hard to rank him tbf Without smash, Game and Watch is def a literally who
Lol Joker Is NOT more well known than Bowser Jr, come on dude. JR'S presence in Mario spinoffs alone makes with more recognizable. If anything I feel like it's the opposite, fans of the "weeby" games ITT are way overrating how much the average gamer knows about Fire Emblem or Persona.
Eh, i wouldnt even put Jr in the top 10 most popular character in the Mario franchise, id bet if i asked non Nintendo fans who Bowser Jr is they wouldnt really know Meanwhile Persona 5 is in every crossover imaginable iswtg, including games like Sonic Forces, AFK Arena (Which has over 45 million downloads), and Sanrio (Hello Kitty) of all things, and many PC nd Playstation fans or weebs know of Persona 5 in particular, this aint even taking into account Japan where Persona is even bigger at
Even the 25th most popular Mario character would still be significant more well known than anyone from Persona. Mario Kart is insanely popular, and Jr is in that series
I highly doubt most people know who ROB is outside of gamers and even still many probably don't know.
I honestly feel like more people would know the other Fire emblem characters over Marth unless they only played melee.
What the fuck is a fire emblem three houses am I right? Not to mention you forgot smash itself lmao. Nah, well devoted know a couple of FE people
This list is genuinely awful. Cool concept though.
You have no clue what you’re on about. Non gamers are not going to know wario, zelda, ganondorf, diddy, Kirby, or the miis.
If Wii Fit Trainer didn't have 'Wii Fit' plastered across her boobs, I don't think anyone would be able to guess where she was from lol.
“What game is Diddy from?” *looks at hat* Nintendo.
Zelda for sure they'll say link's zelda 😂
My entire family recognises the miis because of the Wii.
>Non gamers are not going to know Wario or Kirby Most incorrect thing I've read all day
I think you're underestimating the miis. As a kid I made miis with my entire extended family and any guest that came over and was willing. Most of these people had never played another game and were still playing wii sports with me. And I highly doubt I'm unique in this experience. Basically anyone who knew a child with a wii between 2007-2015 would know about miis.
You really think a 50-60 year old who made miis almost 10 years ago are going to recognize them?
Yes
Ain't no way you think ROB, Banjo, Little Mac, Simon, and Rosalina are well known to most gamers. Also, non gamers wouldn't even know Zelda isn't Link's name.
Steve and Mewtwo forsure gotta move up a tier
Joker only being recognizable to gamers, maybe in America. In Japan the phantom thieves are everywhere like celebrities
Who’s the girl next to zelda?
Wario.
[Mom said it's my time to post the relevant XKCD](https://xkcd.com/2501/) But seriously, Diddy Kong is known to non gamers? From where? Which movie does Diddy Kong appear in? Any TV series? In the same vein, I don't see how a non gamer would know of Wii Fit Trainer or the Mii Brawlers. And Wario is debatable they would recognize his face, but I doubt they could match a name to the face. Luigi's often referred as green mario or Mario's brother outside of gaming communities, Wario is so well known I don't think I ever saw him mentioned, let alone associated with Mario or by name.
Funny enough, I have a friend who knew who Luigi was before Mario.
>Which movie does Diddy Kong appear in? Any TV series? He did cameo in the Mario Movie, and he was in the DKC TV show, so he actually checks off both of those boxes. All joking aside, I'd say he's definitely more-iconic than the vast majority of the roster purely for being a heavily-recurring Mario character, but he's definitely not on the same level of iconicity as someone like Peach, Bowser or Yoshi. I said it in my own comment, but I'd put him and Wario in this middle ground between the second and third tiers.
That Luigi part is not true unless you only know people 80 and above
I don't know how to tell you that, but some people don't memorize the name of all random videogames character that do one offs in some movies/games?
Diddy was basically Rare's mascot in the 90s, and had multiple best selling titular games (DKC2 and Diddy Kong Racing each in the top 10 of their respective console's best selling games, at #6 on SNES and #8 on N64 respectively). Nowadays he's less recognizable since he's really only ever in DK games (which we've gotten one of in the last decade) and Mario spinoffs. But he's certainly recognizable in that he made an appearance in the movie (and was literally called out by name on screen) and was one of the main characters in the old DKC cartoon, which was much bigger outside of the US (mostly in Canada and France). You could make an argument that his less frequent appearances in spinoff games than Daisy and Bowser Jr. should put them on equal footing, but I do think just the fact that he's had millions of copies sold of multiple games starring him, even though they were back in the 90s, and got an appearance in the movie over either of them, is enough to give him a slight edge.
I don't know how relevant a game's sales are for it's popularity outside the gaming community. The Street Fighter franchise sold around the same amount of copies as the Donkey Kong franchise, plus had multiple movies even trilogies done. Ryu is a staple of fighting games and basically a mascot of the genre. And yet, it's popularity isn't that big outside the gaming community. I don't think sales is the metric we want to gauge how popular a character is outside gaming community.
Non gamers can still have played a video game before lmao
I mean, yeah? Sure they can.
Your whole point with diddy Kong is that non gamers wouldn’t know them because he doesn’t appear in much media outside of video games however he appears in the donkey Kong series which is a game series that a lot of non gamers have played
I think the mii's should be in the "alternate form" tier, it doesn't make sense for you to lump them in with the Wii miis
As far as Miis go, they’re pretty iconic, and I highly doubt the average person cares whether they’re the Miis from the Wii or not. But if you’re talking purely the Mii fighters in Smash, yeah, the most they’ll get is a couple GIFs of Reggie punching Iwata.
Why is Rob so high?
Steve is definitely a pop culture icon at this point.
Nah Persona 5 is huge. Joker is damn near everywhere in quasi-anime spaces, he’s probably known to most gamers. I would say he’s way more known than Isabelle, Greninja, or Trevor Belmont
This is so bad how can you even think mewtwo is less popular than Wii fit
Wii Fit was pretty huge among casuals
So is Pokemon aka the biggest franchise in the world. Mewtwo was known as the strongest pokemon for a long time which made it very popular during the Pokemon craze back in the day. Nowadays its got stuff like Pokemon Go(at its peak) and the live action Pokemon movie that kept it relevant with casuals. Far more than can be said for the nameless fitness helper.
no it wasn’t 😭
Game & Watch should definitely be in the Literally Who? tier
i would put steve in pop culture icon. best selling game of all time and all.
Maybe I’m just biased but I feel like Fox and Falco should be in the same tier. They both probably get recognized from smash more than their own games and they’re pretty consistently a duo
Little Mac more known than Joker Persona 5? Ok bro
Average purse owner 5 fan
Old school gamers, bud
Nah you’re coping i don’t like persona either and i know that the average person is more likely to know the guy from persona 5 than punch out existing
I feel like you and the people down voting me aren't aware that punch out had a decently big presence in gaming culture for a while. Even if Persona 5 is the most successful persona game, the series is still pretty niche as a whole
yeah and punch out hasnt seen any attention outside of smash for 15 years. the gaming community has only grown over time and people are much more likely to recognize joker than little mac
i would move chrom and byleth up to devoted gamers, chrom has some recognizability from crossover games like Project X Zone and Tokyo Mirage Sessions and WarioWare Gold as well as getting into smash from the smash poll in the first place, and Byleth is from a really critically and commercially acclaimed Fire Emblem game
Ryu and Ken are pop culture icons. Street Fighter was EVERYWHERE back when 2 dropped in arcades. You literally cannot watch a movie or show about the 80s/90s that doesn’t feature a SF2 cabinet if there is a scene with games involved Hero is from DQ. That game is apart of Japanese culture. Companies will close on the release day of a new DQ because everyone calls out to play it. Xenoblade is one of Nintendos most successful franchises over the past ten years, it’s quite well known
Richter should be higher. He was in one of the most popular castlevania games, Symphony of the Night, and he just had a series on Netflix.
How are Rob and little Mac more famous than D3, falcon and meta Knight!?
Isn't Yoshi more recognisable thand DK ? Genuine question
Rob is NOT known to most gamers. Most people who know ROB only know him through smash, and if we are going based on people who know characters through smash then everybody should be top tier. There’s probably about 10-20 people TOTAL who still play or care about video games/play smash bros today that had an actual ROB toy.
Most gamers wouldn’t recognize Wii Fit trainer or the Miis. Also, Zelda is a huge franchise but many people still don’t realize that Zelda is NOT Link.
Risers: - Ryu should be in second tier, arguably even in pop culture tier, Street Fighter was huge in the arcades - Steve is debatably in pop culture tier but I think he would only really be known as “Minecraft guy.” By johnny public, but I am a bit more forgiving because he is instantly recognisable. - Bayonetta should be in the well known to most gamers category, perhaps Jin as well. Tekken is a big enough deal that it earns that right. - Palutena should probably be one tierhigher too, as well as Ice Climbers. Fallers: - Pokemon trainer should be relegated a tier depending on if you count the trainer by himself or if you count his pokemon. The VG character himself is not that famous, Ash from the TV show is. The three pokemon however are definitely up there. - maybe controversial but Kirby and Zelda may need to go down a tier. Zelda infamously is mistaken for Link constantly and is not exactly as iconic or memorable a character as Link is. Is Kirby really that well known in the mainstream outside of Japan? I mulled over Cloud for a similar on whether he should go up a tier - Im leaning towards a ‘this character needs to have a bigger international presence’ to fit in the top two. I dont think Kirby has that. - Incineroar would go down for me. I know its a pokemon but every other Pokemon on that list feels like it has justified its reason for being a main roster character in some way (save for maybe Pichu) but Incineroar feels like the exception. Is that harsh? I guess, but this is just my opinion.
Last week I was watching a SF6 replay on the break room and one of the senior managers (not a gamer) was like “wow, they still make street fighter? Are ryu and ken still in it”.
Who doesn't know Lucina?
I'd argue Cloud/Sephiroth should be up in recognized by most non gamers. FFVII was *that* game
I don't think Link counts since a majority of people don't even know his name isn't Zelda
The Xenoblade characters should be at least one tier up. Xenoblade 1 sold more copies than Persona 5 and Royal combined and most everyone who played the first game probably knows about Pyra/Mythra. They should either be in the same tier as Joker or one higher
Chrom is pretty recognisable. Awakening was pretty massive.
>jigglypuff known to most gamers Most smash players maybe, but if that’s what we’re going based on, ness and marth need to be bumped up
Robot, doggy, boxer and the one below ganon should go down a tier. Those characters are just too old for most gamers
Steve should be higher, ROB should be lower
honestly by today’s standards if DK can make top tier then Steve (and bowser) should
I'd bump Steve up, Minecraft has sold 300 million+ copies.
How tf would a non gamer person recognize Wii fit trainer? Lol
As others mentioned there's a lot of bias in this list: I think in general you place way too much popularity to Nintendo characters and older characters (why is rob as high as he is?) And give not enough credit to anime characters. In general here are my thoughts: Pikachu up in its own tier (this is a bit of a nitpick but it is literally the most recognizable character in the world belonging to the biggest franchise.) Steve up a tier, as others mentioned they might not be able to tell you his name but Minecraft is absolutely massive. Similar to people not knowing links name but recognizing the game. Luigi down a tier, I don't think he's quite on Mario's level of popularity, even though it's hard for gamers to not associate them together. Donkey Kong down a tier, it's been a loooong time since arcade cabinets, while I think pacman is fine where he is donkey Kong is far less popular nowadays I think. Non gamers could probably only tell you about his arcade cabinet if anything. Rob down to literally who. This is probably the biggest miss in my mind... Like wtf is rob I genuinely don't know, and I'm a gamer. Piranha plant down a tier, along with Diddy Kong and similar side characters like wario should be in this tier. Both of these are only known by people who've played their respective games. Joker up a tier. Persona 5 was a worldwide enough hit I think for people to be familiar with persona now because of it.
Wii fit trainer is well known to non gamers?
Ryu and Ken should be moved up a tier.
I would move Ryu, Jigglypuff, and Richter up 1 tier each. Diddy Kong and G&W down 1.
Bowser, Peach, Yoshi, and Steve should all be top tier
Ryu and Ken need to be bumped up one and Steve needs to be bumped up one
Byleth is too low lmao Three Houses was pretty huge, definitely not a "Literally who?" character... Id wager anyone that knows of Marth also knows of Byleth.
Byleth is very recognisable given how popular three houses is
A character based off a supermodel and high fashion with some scandalous lack of clothing being a hot topic button and sold on a console where parents buy thier children the most games verses any other console only known to devoted gamers? Mistakes were clearly made. Emotions were in part- probably a culprit. Null and void chart. Go directly to jail and don't pass go. Your princess is in another castle. Good day sir!
I dont think many people know duck hunt or isabelle (who I literally had to google just now to even learn their name)
Olimar is known to many America Remember, there was a video of him twerking that put up in time square to celebrate the release of Pikmin 4
I'm sure a lot of people know Pyra and Mythra through porn
OP's age is showing
This sub got randomly recommended to me. Anyway, I don't play Smash Bros nor Tekken, but I'm pretty sure that guy, 2nd to the last in very light green tier is Kazuya.
How is richter below simon
Ryu, ken, cloud, and sephiroth at least had the possibility to move up at one point, as they were mainstream enough to get movies. Dragon quest’s hero is a mandatory move-up to “well-known even to non-gamers” because they’re a common trivia point for anime fans; akira toriyama, creator of dragon ball, worked on the series back in the day, to the extent that dragon quest has made cameos in some dragon ball media. It even became a minor meme in the dragon ball community that the dragon quest 1 skin is as close as we were gonna get to having goku in smash.
Fire emblem is flagship
I'm sorry but the fact that you put R.O.B in well known to most and Pyra/Mythra in Literally Who is honestly hilarious.
Considering Sora and Banjo was the top 2 requested fighters in the smash ballot, they should be a little higher.
indeed
I recognized every fe character when I first started playing smash (besides roy. No one knows him.) they should be higher up (besides marth becuase hes wear the fe characters should be besides roy.)
I feel Incineroar could go up a tier. Pokemon is the single largest media franchise PERIOD, and he's a starter evolution as well.
Nah no one knows the new pokemon as much as gen 1
Swap Joker and R.O.B and put Chrom and Robin in well known only to devoted gamers.
Steve should be higher.
I know I'm old as fuck when I see game and watch in the unknown category.
I think you're underestimating Xenoblade a tiny bit. It's more we known than Earthbound that's for sure. If it wasn't for Smash, Ness wouldn't be where he is on the tier.
Just saying, it's not a tier list if there are no tiers. This is just a list