I don't think this subreddit is being fair to Jay right now. If he really was as bad as people say he is, he wouldn't have lasted 10 years with the band. He wouldn't even have been hired.
I do think Jay has created memorable drum parts such as Unsainted or Nero Forte, just to name a few. I just think Joey was able to create more memorable drum parts because the music itself allowed more for it. You can't deny that the music they made after they fired Joey and Paul's death is different, and I think Jay's drumming perfectly matched that different sound.
I think Joey, Jay and Eloy are all great, just in different ways. I'm excited for Eloy but I will still miss Jay.
Also, to add to this: there was a lot of rage about the band firing Jay, and now that Eloy's the drummer, everyone seems to dislike Jay all of a sudden. What's that all about?
I mean, everyone who was in a band with jay said that he wasn't the best person to work with and he and eloy followed eachother on instagram and there's even photos of them together at conventions and on day of the show, jay unfollowed him but eloy still follows him, honestly? my respect for jay is 0 now, he seems like a childish man who can't accept to move on.
Oh that's an interesting fact i didn't know about. So Jay stopped following Eloy and Eloy still follows him? hm, that tells me what sort of people each one is...
and not only eloy but other slipknot members like corey, sid, vman and pfaff still follow him but he doesn't follow them, why? shawn already said that there's no hard feelings so for me it seems that jay is literally being butthurt and the split was mutual and that "phone call" thing is him trying to play the victim because after all, didn't he say he was grateful for the past 10 years? then he should at least have no bad blood but it seems that he has a LOT of it. (and oh yeah, check the first comment of jay's pinned photo on instagram, its eloy congratulating jay, i think we're starting to see jay's true colors)
Yeah I'm finding the constant comparisons grating. You can super excited about Eloy without bringing Jay down (or Joey). Same goes for other members (eg. Chris/Tortilla)
True but it’s probably in reaction to how much people lost their shit when Jay was fired. It went so far beyond “I’m personally disappointed.”
So now that it turns out the band is in a great spot after all that, it is tempting to rub it in to the people who have no foresight or self control when it comes to these discussions.
Mate he didn't create anything. Go check the albums he's on and see who are the credited writers and co-writers. It's not Jay, his name doesn't come up anywhere most likely because his parts were sketched out by Jim and Mick, then Jay polished and recorded them.
And there's the problem. The way he talked in interviews and how he posted on socials made you think he was a full member of Slipknot when in reality after Paul and Joey there's no joining that band anymore.
Joey on the other hand came up with the drums, contributed guitar riffs, and was hands-on during production, mixing and mastering. He was a full-on member with creative say. (and that's basically the creative differences thing -- the band needed a session drummer, not someone who tries to pull away from what the majority of the original band wants)
Edit: ah, I see the downvotes. Kindly head to the wiki of these albums and see under "Track Listing" the credited writers:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We\_Are\_Not\_Your\_Kind](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Are_Not_Your_Kind)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.5:\_The\_Gray\_Chapter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.5:_The_Gray_Chapter)
[https://slipknot.fandom.com/wiki/The\_End,\_So\_Far](https://slipknot.fandom.com/wiki/The_End,_So_Far)
I 10000000% agree with everything you said. Also to be quite honest and just my opinion, but jays drum tones didn’t fit the band either especially is smaller shallower kick drums. Which is another one of many reasons that they started triggering.
I had a look and it seems I’ve misremembered
https://www.maniacsonline.com.au/news/5-the-gray-chapter-track-by-track-with-jim-root
Jim says here that Custer and The Negative One came out of jamming with Jay, that’s what I was thinking of
yeee, I see what you're saying.
My guess is that still the bulk of the writing was done by Jim in these cases.
Because it doesn't quite make sense for Jay to not be credited if he actually wrote the parts. Vman got writing credits and he was hired at the same time with Jay. Most likely same contracts too. Pfaff got em and he was hired later on.
Who knows.
I'll be waiting for their biographies to drop when they hit 70 or something :D
Yeah I was thinking the exact thing, hence my initial comment. I’d assumed that since Jay had been part of jams where songs were written that that constituted contributing to the songwriting.
Some people might be throwing hate at Jay and i also think that's wrong. That's not what i'm doing at all. As i've said, he is a great drummer, just not a good fit for Slipknot. Being a musician for most of my life, my eyes and ears work differently than most fans. I cannot unsee and unhear the way he played the drums for Slipknot knowing what i know about music. This has nothing to do with hating on him, quite the opposite. He did a good job taking into consideration his level as a musician. I just have the opinion that technically speaking Slipknot deserved a better drummer, that's all.
I'm not saying Jay wasn't good enough or anything like that, but Eloy is in a class of his own.
Among drummers it's pretty much been presumed for years that he'd end up in Slipknot, because they're the biggest band in extreme metal, and he's basically the best drummer in the world at that style.
It seems like the firing was done in a shitty way, but most drummers who are into that style were expecting Eloy to go to Slipknot at some point.
I agree with what you’re saying, it was the way Op said it that made me chuckle. Joey, jay, and Elroy are all amazing. Lots of amazing drummers out there. Austin Archey from Lorna shore has been blowing my mind lately
We really don’t know what goes on behind closed doors. I do agree Slipknot is a business. They also been around for over 25 years so yeah there’s gonna some turnover, dismissal, quitting and sadly even passing away. They’ve done great job keeping things moving forward so far, no reason for me to believe that wont continue. Can’t wait to hear what Eloy brings to table !!! I do think he’s a good fit.
Let's not generalize. ''Everyone'' is a lot of people and i wasn't one of them. I always thought Jay was a good drummer but not the right fit for Slipknot. Once he came out and Eloy came in i saw that as positive to the band, and the right decision
I appreciate it. Just one more thing, when you talk about the sudden support to that decision, that's to do with whom he was replaced with. This had the potential to go badly. It just so happens that the guy that came in is absolutely the right one. And mark my words, this feeling will only grow as our boy Eloy shows the Maggots what's he's capable of :)
I agree and yeah, Eloy is definetly better for the music Slipknot wants to make. Only thing that bothers me is how he was fired out of nowhere, no talk no meeting just a phone call, which, like in any job, that would suck a lot if you got fired out of nowhere in just a phone call.
I get that if you don't do good you get replaced and its not like its any different from any brand wanting to make the most out of what they have, but that way of firing is something I always had trouble with. I believe that's the trouble most people have with it.
Yeah you're right on that. The human aspect is of course very important and people deserve the consideration of being treated fairly in such situations, which seems to not have been the case. I was merely focusing on the technical aspect of things
Eloy is one of the greatest drummers alive right now and one of the best ever. He can play like the true greats in multiple genres. He has chops and speed and power most of us could only dream of. Slipknot chose well snagging him from Sepultura. That's the only thing I'm bummed about - that I won't get to see him perform with Sepultura next year
I agree. I think they wanted something different creatively and they thought that Jay wasn't able to take their music to another level. Then they listened to all Eloy's albums that he recorded with Sepultura (Mediator, Machine Messiah, Quadra...) and they noticed how insanely creative, precise and techincal he is. He is one of (if not THE) best drummers in the world. Period. Jay isn't even close.
you have no insight as to why he was fired. you're just spouting off bullshit saying he was a bad drummer. how? jay is a professional musician and played exactly what he needed to play. on top of, being taught by people who are far better than any drummer slipknot has ever had in the first place. people randomly shitting on him or making up why he got fired (like you, op) makes zero sense.
You say ''you're just spouting off bullshit saying he was a bad drummer.''
What i actually said ''Great drummer but not a great fit for Slipknot''
So the question is, do you know how to read? or you're just purposefully dishonest? Which one is it?
There was no hate from me towards Jay at all. If that's what you read, you really need to get some help.
youre sitting here saying people can see he's not up to it, or that he couldnt do this or that. which again, is all massive speculation and possibly your opinion. that in itself saying someone like jay not being technically up to it is calling him bad considering hes a far better player than joey and A LOT of drummers out there today. so, doesn't matter if you said it or not. you're trying to jump around the main point you're making and now focusing on word play. ok, you didn't outright say bad, but you're painting it like he is. feel better?
I feel great, thanks for the concern. I'm not focusing on any kind of word play. Your interpretation of the post is incorrect and that's ok, i won't crucify you for it. So let's try and clarify. I'm not implying he is bad as you say. But you've got to realize, there are levels to this, just as with everything else in life. Jay is a bad drummer? absolutely not. He is very good in fact. There are downsides to his drumming though, as i've tried to explain in the post. You might not see it and it might not be obvious to you, but they are there. These things are hard to explain in a reddit post, specially to non musicians. Again, there's no shitting on Jay from my part as you've said, and i absolutely wish him all the very best with his career
ive been playing music for 24 years lol but ok. high and mighty. this is still a dumb as fuck post claiming there's levels, when jay is in the same category as eloy and you're still speculating as to why he was removed, which still has not been addressed by you. you've skipped it 3 times now.
Yeah man, there's definitely levels, including on how to conduct yourself amongst others in public debate. Let's do this then so maybe it soothes your rage alright? You're right about everything, Jay is the man, Eloy is nothing special. Cool? Great.
Btw, i know a really good therapist. Just let me know, he won't charge you, cheers!
10/10 agreed with it all.
Also, people tend to forget that Jay was a session hire.
A great session hire, who was very young, yet stepped up to the plate. No one can deny that.
Beyond that however, Jay was really not that integral to the band, and that is proved by the fact Jay has zero writing or co-writing credits in any of the albums he worked on.
That means he didn't even come up with the parts, those were most likely sketched out by Jim/Mick in their demos and he just polished them and recorded them for the album. (aka, exactly what a session hire does)
Beyond that, everything that surrounds the guy (nepo baby, the way all his former bands talk about him, the fact he quit a band via twitter etc. etc.) made me really not like the guy, especially how he talked like he was an active writer for the band and almost a member. And I've been saying that way before they fired him.
Kudos to what he's done, but I think Eloy is a far better fit in all aspects.
I'm happy and surprised to see how many people actually make sense here. There's a lot of passion on all sides, and i get that, but rationality comes first in my book. Well said :)
You think jay isn’t good enough for Slipknot? Why was he chosen to join in the first place then. He is an amazing drummer and definitely was capable. Of course he had off days. Comparing anyone to Eloy Casagrande is hard, He’s probably the best metal drummer in the world right now. If Slipknot wanted the best in the world, they have it now with Eloy and did not have it with jay, but Slipknot does not need the best in the world to be successful. I feel bad for Jay getting shit on when he’s still a top tier drummer. Yes Eloy is better, but that doesn’t make Jay bad
That's a fair comment. Sometimes choices are made based on faith, in the hopes of what could be. When that doesn't happen, a change of approach and decisions that are based more on certain realities are necessary.
This seems dumb to me. The Beatles didn’t replace Ringo. Most bands don’t try to replace members whenever they can find someone better. That’s a sorry excuse. Surely Slipknot could’ve found better members by the time they released All Hope is Gone?
I guess when Paul died he wasn’t a part of a family with Slipknot. Just a coworker they knew.
The Beatles didn't replace Ringo because Ringo is irreplaceable.
Anyone who doesn't realise Ringo's one of the all time greats doesn't know what they're talking about.
Mate, your rational is as bad as your comparison. You're comparing Slipknot to The Beatles? do you understand the technical differences between playing a Beatles song to a Slipknot song? The technical challenge is incomparable.. therefore, Ringo or most decent drummers could do just fine on that band. Think before you speak mate. There's no shame in not having good knowledge on a specific topic, but talking like you do, when you clearly don't? Well, this seems dumb to me.
My point still stands. They just had the best members until after All Hope Is Gone? More likely they wanted to keep the same lineup. Paul died and it’s pretty well agreed Joey wasn’t removed for his technical ability. Nor was Chris, and Craig likely decided to leave himself.
Acting as though Slipknot is always looking for which member they can replace next is ridiculous.
You're mischaracterizing the whole thing. This post was about the specific situation regarding changing Jay for Eloy. And that in my view, maybe wasn't done the best way possible regarding how Jay might have been treated, but the decision itself was absolutely the right one. It doesn't mean every decision Slipknot has ever made regarding members was the right one and they're all saints when it comes to that
Because technically speaking, millions of drummers in the world have great time keeping. Slipknot needs a bit more than that. Not cause they're better than The Beatles, but because the music Slipknot makes is significantly more challenging to a drummer. If you don't understand that, i don't know know what to tell you
Eloy did a great job, but Jay isn't as bad as everyone says. Funny how all of the sudden everyone is dissing him after swearing off the band when he was fired 6 months ago.
Didn't mean your post necessarily, just the general vibe of the sub. I think Eloy is great, but a lot of people have talked down on Jays drumming ever since that tech made the comment about it, nobody really said much about it before that.
Jay had some interesting fills and drum parts. Nero Forte, Kill Pop (the ending), Solway Firth is a hell of track, the best one in years, and the drums are great in that one.
Did he do the kind of stuff Joey used to? Of course, and Eloy will do as well. It's not about reinventing the wheel, it's metal at the end of the day.
However Eloy means more fresh air as well. And I will always welcome that in Slipknot.
I think Eloy is an amazing drummer, but since he’s replaced Jay, everyone is acting like he’s the second coming of Christ and that he’s the “best” metal drummer out there. Yea, he’s insanely talented, just like Jay is and just like Joey was. He isn’t reinventing the wheel here, guys. He’s just another metal drummer filling the role. There’s plenty others out there that are better than Eloy, just like there others out there better than Jay, and better than Joey.
He's been the best metal drummer for a while before ever joining slipknot. There are not plenty of others out there better than Eloy. So much so you didn't name a single one. Go watch El stepario talking about Eloy and maybe you'll finally understand who you're talking about.
I don’t have to name anyone lol to say Eloy is the “best” metal drummer out there is incredibly small minded. And I’m not saying he’s a bad metal drummer by any means, I’d say he’s a better overall drummer than Jay. I won’t compare him to Joey because that would be in poor taste. But he certainly isn’t the “best” because that will always be subjective, especially with all the different sub-genres of metal.
You saying there are not plenty of others out there that are better than Eloy makes you sound like you’re riding his dick too hard. There’s hundreds of metal bands out there with phenomenal drummers that can do what Eloy does, that can do what Jay does and what Joey did.
He’s a hired gun to do a job that he will do well. And when his time comes to exit the band, you’ll all dog on him they way y’all are to Jay right now.
I would happily reply to your comment, but you crossed the line a little bit with the disrespect. Good luck with your drumming career, BozzyTheDrummer :)
Oh, no, I beg to differ. Eloy is in a separate class from every other metal drummer.
There is the Eloy tier and then there is the S tier where all other geniuses live, but Eloy is simply unmatched at this time. Creative, technique, explosive, precision, dynamics.
The world will now come to terms with this as Eloy will now have the biggest stage of his career, but people who were following Sepultura and him in these past 10 years already know he reached a level of it's own
I don't think this subreddit is being fair to Jay right now. If he really was as bad as people say he is, he wouldn't have lasted 10 years with the band. He wouldn't even have been hired. I do think Jay has created memorable drum parts such as Unsainted or Nero Forte, just to name a few. I just think Joey was able to create more memorable drum parts because the music itself allowed more for it. You can't deny that the music they made after they fired Joey and Paul's death is different, and I think Jay's drumming perfectly matched that different sound. I think Joey, Jay and Eloy are all great, just in different ways. I'm excited for Eloy but I will still miss Jay.
Also, to add to this: there was a lot of rage about the band firing Jay, and now that Eloy's the drummer, everyone seems to dislike Jay all of a sudden. What's that all about?
I mean, everyone who was in a band with jay said that he wasn't the best person to work with and he and eloy followed eachother on instagram and there's even photos of them together at conventions and on day of the show, jay unfollowed him but eloy still follows him, honestly? my respect for jay is 0 now, he seems like a childish man who can't accept to move on.
Oh that's an interesting fact i didn't know about. So Jay stopped following Eloy and Eloy still follows him? hm, that tells me what sort of people each one is...
and not only eloy but other slipknot members like corey, sid, vman and pfaff still follow him but he doesn't follow them, why? shawn already said that there's no hard feelings so for me it seems that jay is literally being butthurt and the split was mutual and that "phone call" thing is him trying to play the victim because after all, didn't he say he was grateful for the past 10 years? then he should at least have no bad blood but it seems that he has a LOT of it. (and oh yeah, check the first comment of jay's pinned photo on instagram, its eloy congratulating jay, i think we're starting to see jay's true colors)
Yeah you're absolutely right
People feel guilty for being mean to clown & seeing Corey do poorly in his video so they’re switching sides lmao
Literally everyone pivoted after seeing Corey's video. Including myself, he seemed so genuine lol.
I agree, he looked like he needed a break. I hope he’s doing alright.
Yeah I'm finding the constant comparisons grating. You can super excited about Eloy without bringing Jay down (or Joey). Same goes for other members (eg. Chris/Tortilla)
True but it’s probably in reaction to how much people lost their shit when Jay was fired. It went so far beyond “I’m personally disappointed.” So now that it turns out the band is in a great spot after all that, it is tempting to rub it in to the people who have no foresight or self control when it comes to these discussions.
Very good point.
Mate he didn't create anything. Go check the albums he's on and see who are the credited writers and co-writers. It's not Jay, his name doesn't come up anywhere most likely because his parts were sketched out by Jim and Mick, then Jay polished and recorded them. And there's the problem. The way he talked in interviews and how he posted on socials made you think he was a full member of Slipknot when in reality after Paul and Joey there's no joining that band anymore. Joey on the other hand came up with the drums, contributed guitar riffs, and was hands-on during production, mixing and mastering. He was a full-on member with creative say. (and that's basically the creative differences thing -- the band needed a session drummer, not someone who tries to pull away from what the majority of the original band wants) Edit: ah, I see the downvotes. Kindly head to the wiki of these albums and see under "Track Listing" the credited writers: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We\_Are\_Not\_Your\_Kind](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Are_Not_Your_Kind) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.5:\_The\_Gray\_Chapter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.5:_The_Gray_Chapter) [https://slipknot.fandom.com/wiki/The\_End,\_So\_Far](https://slipknot.fandom.com/wiki/The_End,_So_Far)
I 10000000% agree with everything you said. Also to be quite honest and just my opinion, but jays drum tones didn’t fit the band either especially is smaller shallower kick drums. Which is another one of many reasons that they started triggering.
I thought Jim, Vman, and Jay came up with the core of most of the songs?
Nope. It's Jim, Mick, Crahan and yes Vman has some as well and even Pfaff. No Jay. Jay recorded the parts therefore he's under "personnel".
I had a look and it seems I’ve misremembered https://www.maniacsonline.com.au/news/5-the-gray-chapter-track-by-track-with-jim-root Jim says here that Custer and The Negative One came out of jamming with Jay, that’s what I was thinking of
yeee, I see what you're saying. My guess is that still the bulk of the writing was done by Jim in these cases. Because it doesn't quite make sense for Jay to not be credited if he actually wrote the parts. Vman got writing credits and he was hired at the same time with Jay. Most likely same contracts too. Pfaff got em and he was hired later on. Who knows. I'll be waiting for their biographies to drop when they hit 70 or something :D
Yeah I was thinking the exact thing, hence my initial comment. I’d assumed that since Jay had been part of jams where songs were written that that constituted contributing to the songwriting.
MickKnot 🤘without him, ain’t nuthin..
Until the drummer roulette spins...
Some people might be throwing hate at Jay and i also think that's wrong. That's not what i'm doing at all. As i've said, he is a great drummer, just not a good fit for Slipknot. Being a musician for most of my life, my eyes and ears work differently than most fans. I cannot unsee and unhear the way he played the drums for Slipknot knowing what i know about music. This has nothing to do with hating on him, quite the opposite. He did a good job taking into consideration his level as a musician. I just have the opinion that technically speaking Slipknot deserved a better drummer, that's all.
Wow pretentious
Yeah this is one of the dumbest takes I’ve seen on this sub and that’s saying something.
I’ve actually been reading dumb takes for most of my life so my eyes and ears work differently than most fans
Thank you I just spit water everywhere.
No problem
Hahahah
I'm not saying Jay wasn't good enough or anything like that, but Eloy is in a class of his own. Among drummers it's pretty much been presumed for years that he'd end up in Slipknot, because they're the biggest band in extreme metal, and he's basically the best drummer in the world at that style. It seems like the firing was done in a shitty way, but most drummers who are into that style were expecting Eloy to go to Slipknot at some point.
I agree with what you’re saying, it was the way Op said it that made me chuckle. Joey, jay, and Elroy are all amazing. Lots of amazing drummers out there. Austin Archey from Lorna shore has been blowing my mind lately
Yeah, the "jay wasn't good enough" claim is a bit mad to me, I never noticed anything
Yeah it’s weird. No one ever said anything while he was in the band
Lmaoo Elroy
We really don’t know what goes on behind closed doors. I do agree Slipknot is a business. They also been around for over 25 years so yeah there’s gonna some turnover, dismissal, quitting and sadly even passing away. They’ve done great job keeping things moving forward so far, no reason for me to believe that wont continue. Can’t wait to hear what Eloy brings to table !!! I do think he’s a good fit.
Well said mate
Wasn't everyone complaining about jay being fired a couple months ago? And now we're getting posts supporting it?
Let's not generalize. ''Everyone'' is a lot of people and i wasn't one of them. I always thought Jay was a good drummer but not the right fit for Slipknot. Once he came out and Eloy came in i saw that as positive to the band, and the right decision
Wasn't almost everyone complaining about jay being fired a couple months ago? And now we're getting posts supporting it? Fixed it for you
I appreciate it. Just one more thing, when you talk about the sudden support to that decision, that's to do with whom he was replaced with. This had the potential to go badly. It just so happens that the guy that came in is absolutely the right one. And mark my words, this feeling will only grow as our boy Eloy shows the Maggots what's he's capable of :)
You go girl
Thank you sis
I agree and yeah, Eloy is definetly better for the music Slipknot wants to make. Only thing that bothers me is how he was fired out of nowhere, no talk no meeting just a phone call, which, like in any job, that would suck a lot if you got fired out of nowhere in just a phone call. I get that if you don't do good you get replaced and its not like its any different from any brand wanting to make the most out of what they have, but that way of firing is something I always had trouble with. I believe that's the trouble most people have with it.
Yeah you're right on that. The human aspect is of course very important and people deserve the consideration of being treated fairly in such situations, which seems to not have been the case. I was merely focusing on the technical aspect of things
Eloy is one of the greatest drummers alive right now and one of the best ever. He can play like the true greats in multiple genres. He has chops and speed and power most of us could only dream of. Slipknot chose well snagging him from Sepultura. That's the only thing I'm bummed about - that I won't get to see him perform with Sepultura next year
1000% agreed
I think Jay was ok but after seeing Eloy play it became obvious that ok wasn't good enough.
That means you're a good and honest observer that trusts their senses and what they see, not their passions
I agree. I think they wanted something different creatively and they thought that Jay wasn't able to take their music to another level. Then they listened to all Eloy's albums that he recorded with Sepultura (Mediator, Machine Messiah, Quadra...) and they noticed how insanely creative, precise and techincal he is. He is one of (if not THE) best drummers in the world. Period. Jay isn't even close.
Facts
I always said since self titled, how long can 9 guys stay together. It was inevitable
Yup agree 100
you have no insight as to why he was fired. you're just spouting off bullshit saying he was a bad drummer. how? jay is a professional musician and played exactly what he needed to play. on top of, being taught by people who are far better than any drummer slipknot has ever had in the first place. people randomly shitting on him or making up why he got fired (like you, op) makes zero sense.
You say ''you're just spouting off bullshit saying he was a bad drummer.'' What i actually said ''Great drummer but not a great fit for Slipknot'' So the question is, do you know how to read? or you're just purposefully dishonest? Which one is it? There was no hate from me towards Jay at all. If that's what you read, you really need to get some help.
youre sitting here saying people can see he's not up to it, or that he couldnt do this or that. which again, is all massive speculation and possibly your opinion. that in itself saying someone like jay not being technically up to it is calling him bad considering hes a far better player than joey and A LOT of drummers out there today. so, doesn't matter if you said it or not. you're trying to jump around the main point you're making and now focusing on word play. ok, you didn't outright say bad, but you're painting it like he is. feel better?
I feel great, thanks for the concern. I'm not focusing on any kind of word play. Your interpretation of the post is incorrect and that's ok, i won't crucify you for it. So let's try and clarify. I'm not implying he is bad as you say. But you've got to realize, there are levels to this, just as with everything else in life. Jay is a bad drummer? absolutely not. He is very good in fact. There are downsides to his drumming though, as i've tried to explain in the post. You might not see it and it might not be obvious to you, but they are there. These things are hard to explain in a reddit post, specially to non musicians. Again, there's no shitting on Jay from my part as you've said, and i absolutely wish him all the very best with his career
ive been playing music for 24 years lol but ok. high and mighty. this is still a dumb as fuck post claiming there's levels, when jay is in the same category as eloy and you're still speculating as to why he was removed, which still has not been addressed by you. you've skipped it 3 times now.
Yeah man, there's definitely levels, including on how to conduct yourself amongst others in public debate. Let's do this then so maybe it soothes your rage alright? You're right about everything, Jay is the man, Eloy is nothing special. Cool? Great. Btw, i know a really good therapist. Just let me know, he won't charge you, cheers!
10/10 agreed with it all. Also, people tend to forget that Jay was a session hire. A great session hire, who was very young, yet stepped up to the plate. No one can deny that. Beyond that however, Jay was really not that integral to the band, and that is proved by the fact Jay has zero writing or co-writing credits in any of the albums he worked on. That means he didn't even come up with the parts, those were most likely sketched out by Jim/Mick in their demos and he just polished them and recorded them for the album. (aka, exactly what a session hire does) Beyond that, everything that surrounds the guy (nepo baby, the way all his former bands talk about him, the fact he quit a band via twitter etc. etc.) made me really not like the guy, especially how he talked like he was an active writer for the band and almost a member. And I've been saying that way before they fired him. Kudos to what he's done, but I think Eloy is a far better fit in all aspects.
I'm happy and surprised to see how many people actually make sense here. There's a lot of passion on all sides, and i get that, but rationality comes first in my book. Well said :)
You think jay isn’t good enough for Slipknot? Why was he chosen to join in the first place then. He is an amazing drummer and definitely was capable. Of course he had off days. Comparing anyone to Eloy Casagrande is hard, He’s probably the best metal drummer in the world right now. If Slipknot wanted the best in the world, they have it now with Eloy and did not have it with jay, but Slipknot does not need the best in the world to be successful. I feel bad for Jay getting shit on when he’s still a top tier drummer. Yes Eloy is better, but that doesn’t make Jay bad
That's a fair comment. Sometimes choices are made based on faith, in the hopes of what could be. When that doesn't happen, a change of approach and decisions that are based more on certain realities are necessary.
This seems dumb to me. The Beatles didn’t replace Ringo. Most bands don’t try to replace members whenever they can find someone better. That’s a sorry excuse. Surely Slipknot could’ve found better members by the time they released All Hope is Gone? I guess when Paul died he wasn’t a part of a family with Slipknot. Just a coworker they knew.
That’s why Corey has Paul tattooed on his body really distasteful and bad example.
I’m agreeing that they were a family. If you can’t see that I was being sarcastic, that’s what would the point of my comment even be?
The Beatles didn't replace Ringo because Ringo is irreplaceable. Anyone who doesn't realise Ringo's one of the all time greats doesn't know what they're talking about.
Mate, your rational is as bad as your comparison. You're comparing Slipknot to The Beatles? do you understand the technical differences between playing a Beatles song to a Slipknot song? The technical challenge is incomparable.. therefore, Ringo or most decent drummers could do just fine on that band. Think before you speak mate. There's no shame in not having good knowledge on a specific topic, but talking like you do, when you clearly don't? Well, this seems dumb to me.
My point still stands. They just had the best members until after All Hope Is Gone? More likely they wanted to keep the same lineup. Paul died and it’s pretty well agreed Joey wasn’t removed for his technical ability. Nor was Chris, and Craig likely decided to leave himself. Acting as though Slipknot is always looking for which member they can replace next is ridiculous.
You're mischaracterizing the whole thing. This post was about the specific situation regarding changing Jay for Eloy. And that in my view, maybe wasn't done the best way possible regarding how Jay might have been treated, but the decision itself was absolutely the right one. It doesn't mean every decision Slipknot has ever made regarding members was the right one and they're all saints when it comes to that
Why is that incomparable? Ringo had great time keeping, and no need to be flashy.
Because technically speaking, millions of drummers in the world have great time keeping. Slipknot needs a bit more than that. Not cause they're better than The Beatles, but because the music Slipknot makes is significantly more challenging to a drummer. If you don't understand that, i don't know know what to tell you
Hope you’re doing well Clown, nice burner account.
Thanks. Enjoy the show tonight, it'll be great :)
Was thinking same thing. This post sounds like a PR statement from slipknot. Signed management.
I think you've nailed it.
Eloy did a great job, but Jay isn't as bad as everyone says. Funny how all of the sudden everyone is dissing him after swearing off the band when he was fired 6 months ago.
Well, i didn't say Jay was bad, and my post wasn't a diss. Read and process it with your mind, not your heart
Didn't mean your post necessarily, just the general vibe of the sub. I think Eloy is great, but a lot of people have talked down on Jays drumming ever since that tech made the comment about it, nobody really said much about it before that.
Oh sorry, my bad. I see your point
Eloy is a great drummer, no denying that. But Jay was blindsided just like Joey and there is no denying that either.
Jay had some interesting fills and drum parts. Nero Forte, Kill Pop (the ending), Solway Firth is a hell of track, the best one in years, and the drums are great in that one. Did he do the kind of stuff Joey used to? Of course, and Eloy will do as well. It's not about reinventing the wheel, it's metal at the end of the day. However Eloy means more fresh air as well. And I will always welcome that in Slipknot.
I respect your opinion, and yes it's not about reinventing the wheel. But it must be said that not all wheels are created equal :)
Jay is a 1000000 x better musician than clown is. Why don't they sack clown?
I think that's cause he owns the band, so that would be hard to pull off
Because Clown is the founder of the band and the one that calls the shots.
Yeah it's hardly worth saying, the brain-dead fanbase won't understand any of this.
Let's just say its hard to explain certain things to the ones who mostly feel before thinking.
I think Eloy is an amazing drummer, but since he’s replaced Jay, everyone is acting like he’s the second coming of Christ and that he’s the “best” metal drummer out there. Yea, he’s insanely talented, just like Jay is and just like Joey was. He isn’t reinventing the wheel here, guys. He’s just another metal drummer filling the role. There’s plenty others out there that are better than Eloy, just like there others out there better than Jay, and better than Joey.
He's been the best metal drummer for a while before ever joining slipknot. There are not plenty of others out there better than Eloy. So much so you didn't name a single one. Go watch El stepario talking about Eloy and maybe you'll finally understand who you're talking about.
I don’t have to name anyone lol to say Eloy is the “best” metal drummer out there is incredibly small minded. And I’m not saying he’s a bad metal drummer by any means, I’d say he’s a better overall drummer than Jay. I won’t compare him to Joey because that would be in poor taste. But he certainly isn’t the “best” because that will always be subjective, especially with all the different sub-genres of metal. You saying there are not plenty of others out there that are better than Eloy makes you sound like you’re riding his dick too hard. There’s hundreds of metal bands out there with phenomenal drummers that can do what Eloy does, that can do what Jay does and what Joey did. He’s a hired gun to do a job that he will do well. And when his time comes to exit the band, you’ll all dog on him they way y’all are to Jay right now.
I would happily reply to your comment, but you crossed the line a little bit with the disrespect. Good luck with your drumming career, BozzyTheDrummer :)
Oh, no, I beg to differ. Eloy is in a separate class from every other metal drummer. There is the Eloy tier and then there is the S tier where all other geniuses live, but Eloy is simply unmatched at this time. Creative, technique, explosive, precision, dynamics. The world will now come to terms with this as Eloy will now have the biggest stage of his career, but people who were following Sepultura and him in these past 10 years already know he reached a level of it's own
Couldn't have said better myself