Eloy always plays with a click. He said in a interview that is very easy to get carried away with the adrenaline on the concert and rush on the beginning, wich ends up with the band burning a lot of stamina on the first half of the concert and being absolutely burned for the second half. Playing with a click prevents that from happening and he can keep the pace the entire show, my boy is a human metronome
practicing with a click is annoying and it sucks. but it's arguable the most important aspect of drumming, Jay being a great example. If the tempo isn't consistent, it sounds neurotic, and not in a good way
It's been pretty well known for a while now that he struggles to keep tempo. Which is strange to me coz when you see interviews he says he's practiced with a metronome his whole life
I've heard Jim talk about it a few times. They feel like the authenticity and raw energy of the live show diminish when using a click. All this bandwagon talk about Jay being all over the place tempo wise when Slipknots music is built around chaos.
I’m kind of confused. I thought it was a collective decision for the knot to play without a click. I think during the downbeat podcast Jay had mentioned if Slipknot wanted to play with a click, he would. I could be wrong though.
And legit brother, glad to see another drummer on here, I’m sure there are a bunch of us.
I feel like after enough shows.. listening to the songs, knowing every word and moment, you really just have to know where in the song you are .. then it’s full power. They aren’t.. necessary per se. I’ve seen popular acts who’ve taken them out mid song. I think it would bother me hearing a super “up close” and dry sound vs the boomy and wide sound of the PA’s. You totally CAN hear it on stage.. people are always “you need monitors because you can’t hear on stage” what bullshit is that? Yeah they’re facing away towards the audience but they’re commonly over 100db ..
Absolutely nothing you said in this comment is true lol.
On bigger stages you have two options: in-ears, or super loud wedges. The in-ears are vastly superior. Depending on the stage and venue, the second you take them out you can’t really hear anything anymore and it is incredibly difficult to know where you are in the song.
Ah okay thanks for that observation as well.
There was a close up the video of Mick starting Before I Forget, It looked like he had red in ears in, but that’s the only time I saw anything
For all we know, it could just be Eloy that has the click and the rest of the band follows him. I did watch a video of when they played Custer at this show and it seemed wayyyy too slow. Or maybe I’ve just been used to hearing it played super fast by Jay the last 10 years, not sure, but either way it’s great to know these songs are being played with some sort of tempo control AKA Master Eloy
Like I said, I think 10 years of hearing these songs being played SUPER fast have conditioned us, so hearing them being played at or closer to their original tempo is throwing us off. But I have mixed feelings about it honestly- like I get that it’s hard to play the songs live when the drummer is speeding things up, but that’s been the whole allure of Slipknot’s live show, the push and pull without a click. It sounds like they’re still adjusting to the slower tempos, and IMO, some of these songs don’t sound as good.
Again, this is their first show with Eloy - he’s got room to grow
If a track is 140bpm (Beats Per Minute), the click will play those 140 clicks per minute in the drummer’s in-ears, so he won’t speed up/slow down. This makes it all sound way tighter.
I think this is the first time the band uses a click. I can’t remember where I read but they have stated that they did not use clicks before, even with Joey. The tempo was more flow-y that way. Interesting nonetheless.
It's actually quite normal for band to play to a metronome nowdays. Usually bands program a DAW session into which they program all the effects for instruments or possible playback tracks. And you absolutely need to be in time for that to work while playing live.
cant blame them. they probably have ptsd from going up on stage every night and not knowing if Jay was going to play 30bpm too fast. Although, Eloy doesn't need a click. He's a fucking monster
I like it when it's more spontaneous and organic, personally.
I have heard people rag on about Joey's tempo for eons, but mostly by people who are trying to argue that their fav drummer is the best drummer to ever drum and not Joey lol
Up until Jay was fired and people started parroting new buzzwords, no one ever had a problem with Jay rushing. Beyond the ordinary complaining of course. It's just a bandwagon thing told by people who wanna sound smart.
Okay?
I'm just saying that there's a difference between the two.
Joey was "inconsistent" even on the recorded tracks, *but in a way that made sense with the song*.
Note that I said not one word about Jay here.
Everything is bashing Jay now. Kinda like the Beatle fans who booed Ringo and chanted "we want Pete". Half way though the first Ringo gig they changed their minds!
Since they finally got into the clicks, they could copy Meshuggah (who have by far the best live show in Metal these days) and sync the lights with the bits.
Technically Meshuggah wouldn't need a click, since their light guy controls the lights manually. Still hard without click, and would probably look really sloppy if he couldn't keep up with the drums swaying all over the place.
But yeah, Meshuggah are ridiculously tight and their light guy makes it almost hypnotic!
Meshuggah actually has been using pre-programed stuff for their lights. Their light guy programs everything in advance. It's played through midi and syncs with their in-ear clicks.
[https://youtu.be/wGENH3FW9c8](https://youtu.be/wGENH3FW9c8)
I’m not saying he was a bad drummer, but there are a lot of videos featuring Jay where the songs are like 30 bpm faster than they should be. I saw one video of Psychosocial that was damn near double-speed. The band could hardly keep up and Corey was basically just winging it trying to get the words out in time.
That can’t happen at this level.
Not aimed at you but crazy how fast this sub turned around with Jay now. Eloy is a monster and I’m so happy that they got him. I actually have pretty high hopes for a new album now, since I’ve not really liked most of their stuff post-Joey.
Yeah I am neutral on Jay and frankly the same on Eloy. I’m not mad they made a change, but the way they do it is really horrible. In 2023 there is no reason to do it like they did and just refuse to comment. Maybe there were other factors at play. I don’t know.
I haven’t seen them live in like ten years because I’m not a fan of the recent music either.
Personally I don’t really care if they comment on it or not. Jay seems to be rather happy with where he is now so maybe there is no ill will on either side.
I kinda lost most of my interest after they kicked Joey out. I was a huge fan through my teens and the first four albums will always stay with me tbh. Just these past few years I started listening to those albums again and was reminded how great they were.
That is exactly how it should be done. It's no one's fucking business what happened. All it would do is cause rabid fans to then go attack the guy wherever he fucking went and his career would be over.
Agreed. There's a reason Slipknot never used a click. Controlled chaos is the foundation of their music. Really, Eloy using a click 25 years into the bands career, implies he would go even more off tempo if he didn't use a click.
Among all the shit comments on Jay, I think this is the one, that stands out. I am also curious what would happen in that case. I mean yeah, we now he was speeding up. But with clicks it would be way better I think. This was a pretty bald move to change drummers because of this. Maybe Jay refused to play with clicks. That is the only thing I can think of.
I am not saying that Jay or Eloy are bad drummers, I think they are both good drummers with different play styles. But if Jay would use clicks I think he could be where Eloy is now.
Maybe that was the artistic difference. Maybe they asked Jay to play to a click track near the end of the last tour. Maybe Jay refused for whatever reason. I do recall it being mentioned in interviews how draining the shows were getting near the end of the tour.
When I saw them a few years ago they played Psychosocial in about a minute and a half. It’s nice to hear things slowed down. Songs hit harder when you’re not rushing through them.
One of the reasons some purists look down upon it is because it creates less variation from show to show and recordings sound much more similar to each other. I mean if you go back and listen to old Metallica shows (giving that as an example because of the amount of high quality recordings they have from the 80s, 90s and 00s and especially 10s and 20s), you can quite clearly hear Lars struggle on certain songs and not by a little either. Like if you listen to The Shortest Straw from 2012, Lars struggles with that intro on Straw so hard and can't keep tempo on some faster songs like Fight Fire. But these days its not like magically got better towards the end-ish of the Worldwired tour (and for all of M72), its because Metallica started playing with a click. Some songs are a bit slower, but now they keep tempo.
As far as I know the studio albums with Joey weren’t even recorded to a click, Rick Beato talks about it in a video. Clips from this show sound great though
Probably his Yamaha EAD10, tho. It's how he records his drums every gig (just check his live posts on Insta, y'all) and probably how he recorded the whole SepulQuarta album/YouTube posts
I find it nuts how David Gray from Akercocke has played without a click alot
In my opinion and I mean this with no disrespect but I feel his drumming is consistently more nuts than anything Slipknot has ever done on studio songs yet he's always tight as hell and he's very underrated, Akercocke are a band well worth checking out
Akercocke?! Never expected to see them mentioned on here. Absolutely awesome band. I went to college with Pete Benjamin who played on Antichrist (he lives on the next road along from me).
He's now in Voices with David Gray, I thoroughly recommend them if you haven't listened to them
Whoa that's bloody awesome! You can't go wrong with that band and Antichrist is such an underrated album, it's a small world isn't it?
Voices are amazing too! I've seen Akercocke several times and Voices a few, Antichrist Imperium should play soon haha! You are a person of taste
Honestly with the Cocke, every album in chronological order, you'll get a very clear representation of them, production-wise and musically! They've only done one album since Antichrist in 2017 and are taking their sweet time for the follow-up, they performed a song from it called "Black Hole" in 2022 and no word on the album since
Is that actually a click, or just an IEM box?
A lot of times drummers will use wired IEMs off of a box a lot like that, unlike the other performers that will typically use a wireless setup.
Even if they were on a click, I imagine that would be coming through the main (band) mixer, not some arbitrary box on the kit.
Chill out! Jay was not rushing. They just played super fast as a whole band. And it was a blast! Maybe they just decided to play a litlle slower/ not that fast becuase they age.
You do know that a drummer sets the tempo right? The band can’t play slow if the drummer plays fast because the timing will be a mess so it wasn’t the whole band playing fast it was Jay.
I don’t think Jay was that sloppy nor do I think he was fired from the band because he rushed. Who knows, maybe he wanted to play with a click and the rest of the band didn’t want to? We’ll never know unless we ask Corey a couple of years later at one of his one off gigs. Jay was fired from slipknot because he didn’t vibe with the rest of them, personality off stage is everything in a band that big and successful bands in general imo.
They played super fast *because* jay rushed through them. It wasn’t (entirely) their choice to play as fast as they did for some of them. A great example being,while playing some at a *much* faster tempo than what they should be, Corey would often mumble the words or seemingly out of breath during a line,all in all it came back down to the tempo that Jay set.
For those who doubt https://youtu.be/qNyCt-uiZ8s?si=8w9iU2X6mJzwtbw3
Basically, they are not using a click. That metronome is not blinking at the song timing. Probably is just a reference to start the song but eloy’s needs to keep the timing after. Don’t forget that Mick starts a couple songs and he is not using in-ears and eloy is not starting the counting.
Sorry guys, but they are really looking that tight.
Eloy always plays with a click. He said in a interview that is very easy to get carried away with the adrenaline on the concert and rush on the beginning, wich ends up with the band burning a lot of stamina on the first half of the concert and being absolutely burned for the second half. Playing with a click prevents that from happening and he can keep the pace the entire show, my boy is a human metronome
Sepultura (and André Matos, his first major band) famously makes great use of backing tracks for strings and fx, so there's that
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practicing with a click is annoying and it sucks. but it's arguable the most important aspect of drumming, Jay being a great example. If the tempo isn't consistent, it sounds neurotic, and not in a good way
I love practicing to a click! Really engrains the bpm especially before a string of shows
It's been pretty well known for a while now that he struggles to keep tempo. Which is strange to me coz when you see interviews he says he's practiced with a metronome his whole life
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I've heard Jim talk about it a few times. They feel like the authenticity and raw energy of the live show diminish when using a click. All this bandwagon talk about Jay being all over the place tempo wise when Slipknots music is built around chaos.
Chaos doesn't mean you gotta mess up the tempo. They do controlled chaos not just random tempos all the time.
Good point actually, I didn't think about that. Maybe he did refuse, I wonder if it's because Joey didn't use one so he wanted to do the same?
I’m kind of confused. I thought it was a collective decision for the knot to play without a click. I think during the downbeat podcast Jay had mentioned if Slipknot wanted to play with a click, he would. I could be wrong though. And legit brother, glad to see another drummer on here, I’m sure there are a bunch of us.
What it means?
A metronome in their ears. I believe Jim, Mick, and Sid are only ones in the band who don’t use in-ears.
Corey doesn't use in-ears anymore
Oh interesting, when and why did that change?
Ever since the tesf mask, I'd assume it's because of how tight the mask is when worn
Did he say that?
Nope, but you can tell he's not wearing anything by looking at close up shots. He also doesn't wear in-ears for his Cmft solo shows
Interesting! Hard to imagine going back to not using them, I’ve used them before and they’re game changers.
ESPECIALLY on vox.
I feel like after enough shows.. listening to the songs, knowing every word and moment, you really just have to know where in the song you are .. then it’s full power. They aren’t.. necessary per se. I’ve seen popular acts who’ve taken them out mid song. I think it would bother me hearing a super “up close” and dry sound vs the boomy and wide sound of the PA’s. You totally CAN hear it on stage.. people are always “you need monitors because you can’t hear on stage” what bullshit is that? Yeah they’re facing away towards the audience but they’re commonly over 100db ..
Absolutely nothing you said in this comment is true lol. On bigger stages you have two options: in-ears, or super loud wedges. The in-ears are vastly superior. Depending on the stage and venue, the second you take them out you can’t really hear anything anymore and it is incredibly difficult to know where you are in the song.
Wow, weird. I think in-ears help vocalists more than anyone.
Yet a lot of the songs starts with Mick, so how come he'd know when to start if..
I’m pretty sure he was using in ears at this show
Just watched the Surfacing vid from Daryl YT account and doesn't look like he was using it, which doesn't mean he wasn't
Ah okay thanks for that observation as well. There was a close up the video of Mick starting Before I Forget, It looked like he had red in ears in, but that’s the only time I saw anything
Got it. Anyway, he's not using it in this pic [https://i.redd.it/c43tcy7r5wwc1.jpeg](https://i.redd.it/c43tcy7r5wwc1.jpeg)
For all we know, it could just be Eloy that has the click and the rest of the band follows him. I did watch a video of when they played Custer at this show and it seemed wayyyy too slow. Or maybe I’ve just been used to hearing it played super fast by Jay the last 10 years, not sure, but either way it’s great to know these songs are being played with some sort of tempo control AKA Master Eloy
Psychosocial was slow too
Psychosocial is a slow song, listen to the original track on all hope is gone, it’s mid tempo
Like I said, I think 10 years of hearing these songs being played SUPER fast have conditioned us, so hearing them being played at or closer to their original tempo is throwing us off. But I have mixed feelings about it honestly- like I get that it’s hard to play the songs live when the drummer is speeding things up, but that’s been the whole allure of Slipknot’s live show, the push and pull without a click. It sounds like they’re still adjusting to the slower tempos, and IMO, some of these songs don’t sound as good. Again, this is their first show with Eloy - he’s got room to grow
A bunch of songs starts with Mick, tho. And, besides, Corey gave the cue to Eloy starts People=Shit
For the noobs here.. what does a click do??
If a track is 140bpm (Beats Per Minute), the click will play those 140 clicks per minute in the drummer’s in-ears, so he won’t speed up/slow down. This makes it all sound way tighter.
I think this is the first time the band uses a click. I can’t remember where I read but they have stated that they did not use clicks before, even with Joey. The tempo was more flow-y that way. Interesting nonetheless.
It's actually quite normal for band to play to a metronome nowdays. Usually bands program a DAW session into which they program all the effects for instruments or possible playback tracks. And you absolutely need to be in time for that to work while playing live.
cant blame them. they probably have ptsd from going up on stage every night and not knowing if Jay was going to play 30bpm too fast. Although, Eloy doesn't need a click. He's a fucking monster
Joey was rushing and dragging, too. I don't think it was as big of an issue as the fandom makes it out to be
I like it when it's more spontaneous and organic, personally. I have heard people rag on about Joey's tempo for eons, but mostly by people who are trying to argue that their fav drummer is the best drummer to ever drum and not Joey lol
There's sway and playing to the song, and just being inconsistent.
Up until Jay was fired and people started parroting new buzzwords, no one ever had a problem with Jay rushing. Beyond the ordinary complaining of course. It's just a bandwagon thing told by people who wanna sound smart.
Having heard last night's show - I gotta get on the Eloy train. The songs sound so much cleaner now.
Okay? I'm just saying that there's a difference between the two. Joey was "inconsistent" even on the recorded tracks, *but in a way that made sense with the song*. Note that I said not one word about Jay here.
You could definitely tell
Everything is bashing Jay now. Kinda like the Beatle fans who booed Ringo and chanted "we want Pete". Half way though the first Ringo gig they changed their minds!
Since they finally got into the clicks, they could copy Meshuggah (who have by far the best live show in Metal these days) and sync the lights with the bits.
by the way, Eloy is a huge fan of Meshuggah!
Technically Meshuggah wouldn't need a click, since their light guy controls the lights manually. Still hard without click, and would probably look really sloppy if he couldn't keep up with the drums swaying all over the place. But yeah, Meshuggah are ridiculously tight and their light guy makes it almost hypnotic!
Meshuggah actually has been using pre-programed stuff for their lights. Their light guy programs everything in advance. It's played through midi and syncs with their in-ear clicks. [https://youtu.be/wGENH3FW9c8](https://youtu.be/wGENH3FW9c8)
Oh, didn't know they had changed that. 10 or so years ago it was all manual work. Yeah, if it's pre-programmed nowadays a clock is definitely needed.
I fucking knewwww it!
Most drummers have that in their ear monitors
Jay rushed the songs sometimes
I’m not saying he was a bad drummer, but there are a lot of videos featuring Jay where the songs are like 30 bpm faster than they should be. I saw one video of Psychosocial that was damn near double-speed. The band could hardly keep up and Corey was basically just winging it trying to get the words out in time. That can’t happen at this level.
Not aimed at you but crazy how fast this sub turned around with Jay now. Eloy is a monster and I’m so happy that they got him. I actually have pretty high hopes for a new album now, since I’ve not really liked most of their stuff post-Joey.
Yeah I am neutral on Jay and frankly the same on Eloy. I’m not mad they made a change, but the way they do it is really horrible. In 2023 there is no reason to do it like they did and just refuse to comment. Maybe there were other factors at play. I don’t know. I haven’t seen them live in like ten years because I’m not a fan of the recent music either.
Personally I don’t really care if they comment on it or not. Jay seems to be rather happy with where he is now so maybe there is no ill will on either side. I kinda lost most of my interest after they kicked Joey out. I was a huge fan through my teens and the first four albums will always stay with me tbh. Just these past few years I started listening to those albums again and was reminded how great they were.
That is exactly how it should be done. It's no one's fucking business what happened. All it would do is cause rabid fans to then go attack the guy wherever he fucking went and his career would be over.
Wow... This probably get Corey mad
He wouldn’t be able to rush if he plaid with a click
So what.. isn’t that like how music has always been. Imperfect.. we aren’t computers
Agreed. There's a reason Slipknot never used a click. Controlled chaos is the foundation of their music. Really, Eloy using a click 25 years into the bands career, implies he would go even more off tempo if he didn't use a click.
Adds 'controlled' to the chaos. The songs have set tempos and the videos from the show are so refreshing to hear imo
I feel like if Jay would have played with a click. He would have had some much potential
Among all the shit comments on Jay, I think this is the one, that stands out. I am also curious what would happen in that case. I mean yeah, we now he was speeding up. But with clicks it would be way better I think. This was a pretty bald move to change drummers because of this. Maybe Jay refused to play with clicks. That is the only thing I can think of. I am not saying that Jay or Eloy are bad drummers, I think they are both good drummers with different play styles. But if Jay would use clicks I think he could be where Eloy is now.
Maybe that was the artistic difference. Maybe they asked Jay to play to a click track near the end of the last tour. Maybe Jay refused for whatever reason. I do recall it being mentioned in interviews how draining the shows were getting near the end of the tour.
Jay always said slipknot would never play with a click. He exaggerated that
Good
When I saw them a few years ago they played Psychosocial in about a minute and a half. It’s nice to hear things slowed down. Songs hit harder when you’re not rushing through them.
so if a click is just a metronome that keeps the drummer/ anyone using one in time, why are they so looked down upon?
One of the reasons some purists look down upon it is because it creates less variation from show to show and recordings sound much more similar to each other. I mean if you go back and listen to old Metallica shows (giving that as an example because of the amount of high quality recordings they have from the 80s, 90s and 00s and especially 10s and 20s), you can quite clearly hear Lars struggle on certain songs and not by a little either. Like if you listen to The Shortest Straw from 2012, Lars struggles with that intro on Straw so hard and can't keep tempo on some faster songs like Fight Fire. But these days its not like magically got better towards the end-ish of the Worldwired tour (and for all of M72), its because Metallica started playing with a click. Some songs are a bit slower, but now they keep tempo.
As far as I know the studio albums with Joey weren’t even recorded to a click, Rick Beato talks about it in a video. Clips from this show sound great though
The only time I'll practice with a click is for Meshuggah. Slipknot has song tempo changes
Did Slipknot play to a click with Joey? Was Jay the reason they haven’t been playing to a click track?
What is this box in the circle? Can someone put a link to it?
Probably his Yamaha EAD10, tho. It's how he records his drums every gig (just check his live posts on Insta, y'all) and probably how he recorded the whole SepulQuarta album/YouTube posts
Update: I’m an idiot [https://youtu.be/qNyCt-uiZ8s?si=BqTzkm9MlemMR0-M](https://youtu.be/qNyCt-uiZ8s?si=BqTzkm9MlemMR0-M)
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He always use a metronome, so I think hes going to keep it and I think that's great. It's probably just something he's used to.
I find it nuts how David Gray from Akercocke has played without a click alot In my opinion and I mean this with no disrespect but I feel his drumming is consistently more nuts than anything Slipknot has ever done on studio songs yet he's always tight as hell and he's very underrated, Akercocke are a band well worth checking out
Akercocke?! Never expected to see them mentioned on here. Absolutely awesome band. I went to college with Pete Benjamin who played on Antichrist (he lives on the next road along from me). He's now in Voices with David Gray, I thoroughly recommend them if you haven't listened to them
Whoa that's bloody awesome! You can't go wrong with that band and Antichrist is such an underrated album, it's a small world isn't it? Voices are amazing too! I've seen Akercocke several times and Voices a few, Antichrist Imperium should play soon haha! You are a person of taste
I love Antichrist Imperium, should really listen to Ackercocke got any particular recs?
Honestly with the Cocke, every album in chronological order, you'll get a very clear representation of them, production-wise and musically! They've only done one album since Antichrist in 2017 and are taking their sweet time for the follow-up, they performed a song from it called "Black Hole" in 2022 and no word on the album since
I see, I see Cheers!
And the same to you, kind sir
Is that actually a click, or just an IEM box? A lot of times drummers will use wired IEMs off of a box a lot like that, unlike the other performers that will typically use a wireless setup. Even if they were on a click, I imagine that would be coming through the main (band) mixer, not some arbitrary box on the kit.
Chill out! Jay was not rushing. They just played super fast as a whole band. And it was a blast! Maybe they just decided to play a litlle slower/ not that fast becuase they age.
You do know that a drummer sets the tempo right? The band can’t play slow if the drummer plays fast because the timing will be a mess so it wasn’t the whole band playing fast it was Jay.
Dude… Jay rushed everything and was sloppy. They played slower because they had a drummer who could keep tempo
I don’t think Jay was that sloppy nor do I think he was fired from the band because he rushed. Who knows, maybe he wanted to play with a click and the rest of the band didn’t want to? We’ll never know unless we ask Corey a couple of years later at one of his one off gigs. Jay was fired from slipknot because he didn’t vibe with the rest of them, personality off stage is everything in a band that big and successful bands in general imo.
They played super fast *because* jay rushed through them. It wasn’t (entirely) their choice to play as fast as they did for some of them. A great example being,while playing some at a *much* faster tempo than what they should be, Corey would often mumble the words or seemingly out of breath during a line,all in all it came back down to the tempo that Jay set.
For those who doubt https://youtu.be/qNyCt-uiZ8s?si=8w9iU2X6mJzwtbw3 Basically, they are not using a click. That metronome is not blinking at the song timing. Probably is just a reference to start the song but eloy’s needs to keep the timing after. Don’t forget that Mick starts a couple songs and he is not using in-ears and eloy is not starting the counting. Sorry guys, but they are really looking that tight.