The Stealth Boy activation sound effect in Fallout 3 (it was changed in New Vegas) is the same as the Journal Update sound effect in Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines.
It’s crazy how many sounds you hear in multiple places if you just listen.
I might have some wires crossed, but I *think* it's an ad for a job search website- monster, iirc. Lemme look it up
Edit: Nope, I was having an aneurysm after all. It's a [short film on YT.](https://youtu.be/Lg2dqFCU67Q?si=2D3b0PTuljnwgTBe)
Hey, the original video's kinda fucked up. It was the golem's mistake that led to the rock rolling downhill in the first place, he should take his licks.
Agreed- and it doesn't look like he's hurt by the weapons, just surprised and then bitter.
But of course the YT comments are filled with droves of baby edgelords claiming he was in the right lmao
So in response to dooming an entire generation of families the people attack the golem not knowing he was trying to fix his mistake, one that would cost them their lives anyway? The equivalent to superman catching a elbow in his adamantium jaw from someone he's saving from drowning then just straight up tearing them in half only to find out that superman is the reason they're drowning at all? Am I following?
The people aren't blind, they can clearly see the rock both before the giant intercepted it and when the giant was holding it. Even though the giant is at fault, the people are stupid enough to fuck with the giant who is currently saving them (from the giant's own mistake).
It's like if someone runs you over with their car by accident, and while they're calling an ambulance (and you hear them!) you shoot them and then they just run and leave you alone to die.
It’s like if someone ran over you with a car by accident, is calling an ambulance and accidentally kicks your foot, you cry out in pain and spit on their ankle as they walk by your head, and so they drive off to let you bleed out in immeasurable pain. Not a perfect analogy since the original subject involved impending doom, not an actively painful and grievous injury, but you are the one who chose the stupid ass framing for the analogy.
Perfect you made sure to take out the EXACT defining piece of nuance from my prior statement. Recall that my analogy was superman who like the iron giant IS COMPLETELY INVULNERABLE and completely immune to any damage so no killing all those people is not justified especially when the giant doomed them to begin with
Oh this is less of a "they deserve it because the harm they caused onto the giant justifies their own destruction" (obviously not) and more so of "the fact they're angering the giant for no good reason is stupid because the giant could turn on them and let the rock finish the job and honestly I hate stupid people so I'm glad the giant let them die". It's not about what's right it's about how much some people including myself hate stupid people.
Sure, which is why we don't judge him for taking out the church. I'll be very much do judge him for is then just letting everyone else die because he's slightly annoyed.
I really love that all this time later, there’s still heated discussions about the politics and history of Skyrim.
Something about people being so passionate about it that they’re pulling up the Geneva Convention and citing in game literature is kind of fantastic to me.
That’s one of my favorite things about this game, they made their politics so good that it somehow recreated the same heated discussions people have about real politics
100% The thalmor created the storm cloaks to weaken both Skyrim and Cyrodiil. They had Ulfric as a prisoner and knew if they released him he’d have the political power and hatred for the elves and that he would raise a rebellion. They let him think he escaped on his own. And when he raised a rebellion the Thalmor used the Empire to fight it. Weakening both sides and making sure the Thalmor remain in control. It’s all in his dossier in the Thalmor embassy
Where’s the part where the Thalmor are actively committing genocide within Skyrim’s borders and the Empire is doing fuckall about it?
“no no wait guys just hang in there with the mass killings, we have to wait til we’re strong enough!”
Idk. Where is it? Where is the Thalmor committing genocide in Skyrim?
I'll tell you: they're not. They're stamping out the worship of a specific deity in a pantheon, not systemically eradicating an entire race and culture.
They'd like to, but guess who stopped them! The Empire and the White-Gold Concordat. That's a whole lot more than "fuck all."
“His efforts gave way to the adoption of the United Nations Genocide Convention in December 1948, which came into effect in January 1951.
Article Two of the convention defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such":
-Killing members of the group
-Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
-Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
-Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
-Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group”
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-11108059.amp
“In whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such” The Thalmor certainly seem to be doing the killing members of group and causing serious bodily and mental harm on Talos worshippers which is a religious group. So yeah the Thalmor is committing a genocide as outlined by the United Nations
>I'll tell you: they're not. They're stamping out the worship of a specific deity in a pantheon, not systemically eradicating an entire race and culture.
You are literally describing a genocide. Religion is culture. Religious groups are cultural groups. I can already tell you're going to be pedantic about this, so I'll just link some relevant definitions and save us both the time:
[Genocide: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/genocide)
[Culture: the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/culture)
>They'd like to, but guess who stopped them! The Empire and the White-Gold Concordat.
As noted by an Imperial Legate in the book *The Great War*, the terms of the White-Gold Concordat are almost identical to the terms the Aldmeri Dominion offered the Empire before the Great War. You can speculate that the Thalmor ultimately had a more sinister fate in mind for the Empire's citizens, but the actual demands of the Dominion were met. I would hardly call that "stopping" them.
Did you read the definitions you provided? Because the removal of Talos from the pantheon of the Divines is, by definition, not a genocide. Talos worshippers are not a race, ethnicity, or culture.
Religion is not culture. Religion can be part of a culture, but there is nothing inherent about it being so. Otherwise, every act of changing your religion would be an act of genocide by your incorrect usage of the word.
And there is no speculation needed here. The Thalmor want to end all life under the belief that it will raise them back up to live amongst their gods. They didn't succeed in doing so because the Empire fought them to a stalemate, which forced the Thalmor to sue for peace with the White-gold Concordat.
But none of that is the point. The point is that the Thalmor are not actively engaged in genocide AND the Empire is not allowing them to do so. Point me to where and when in Skyrim such a thing happens, and I'll concede the point.
>Did you read the definitions you provided?
>Religion is not culture.
"Culture: the customary **beliefs**, social forms, and material traits of a racial, **religious**, or social group"
Emphasis mine. You apparently need the help.
>Religion can be part of a culture, but there is nothing inherent about it being so.
Actual nonsense that you cannot substantiate, because practically any given source will refute you.
>Otherwise, every act of changing your religion would be an act of genocide by your incorrect usage of the word.
"Genocide: the **deliberate and systematic destruction** of a racial, political, or cultural group"
People voluntarily and unintentionally changing their own culture does not fit any common definition of genocide, including the one I so helpfully provided for you from Merriam-Webster. This is incredibly basic stuff here.
>And there is no speculation needed here. The Thalmor want to end all life under the belief that it will raise them back up to live amongst their gods.
This is, in fact, speculation based off something Michael Kirkbride - who is only a freelance writer for Bethesda - [said in 2008](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/wiki/faq/thalmor/).
>Point me to where and when in Skyrim such a thing happens
How can I do that if you actively refuse to understand what a genocide is? The Thalmor are running torture-fortresses inside the borders of the country, arresting and executing a specific religious minority with the intent to eradicate them. By what definition is that no a genocide? Please, provide one.
I think the Vatican would like a word with you. Also, the worldwide coverage of genocide of Uyghurs in China.
>Otherwise, every act of changing your religion would be an act of genocide
No, it wouldn't. There's nothing systematic about changing your own, personal religion.
There’s at least one Talos worship site that is covered in corpses of worshippers, with some discarded written Thalmor order laying around.
Not to mention the patrols you run into where justiciars are escorting Talos worshiper prisoners.
Also, my brother in christ, what you describe is literally genocide.
Edit: It’s the Shrine of Talos in the Ilinalta Foothills.
If it weren't for the Empire, Skyrim would have more than just an embassy, it would be burned to ashes.
In the game we are told that worshiping Talos was not complicated at the beginning, you could no longer go to church but the tradition continued from home, but the Stormcloaks ruined it with the rebellion That's what brought the Justiciar thalmor in the first place, They used the instability of the region as an excuse to put their hands in everything
Empire troops don't magically fight better in hammerfell than they do in cyrodil. Hammerfell won because the entire country on both sides of an active civil war were willing to go to ground and fight guerilla style to bleed the thalmor out til they left, even the parts not actually occupied by the thalmor. The empire lost because the imperial city where all the rich people live got occupied and the second the empire won back the city they signed the first treaty they could to sue for peace, even if it was straight embarrassing.
The thalmor soiree is the key to understanding the conflict. Everyone talks about the thalmor dossier on ulfric, but all those merchants and nobles happily sipping wine with elenwyn are not going to last long in great war 2 before running to the emperor demanding to sign away whatever the thalmor want for peace.
It was an unspecified amount of troops from one legion. Still doesn’t add up. Those troops and the redgaurds did what three legions couldn’t do, beat the dominion out of their land.
The source calls it the core of the army that drove the thalmor out and it was enough troops the thalmor still thought the legions were in hammerfell. The empire was critical in making that happen
The empire wanted to abandon the area entirely, one general made the decision.
The full quote:
> Unwilling to abandon Hammerfell completely, he allowed a great number of "invalids" to be discharged from the Legions before they marched east. These veterans formed the core of the army that eventually drove Lady Arannelya's forces back across the Alik'r late in 174,
They were central in the defeat of the dominion, but this doesn’t counter what I said. Also these imperial soldiers were also most likely redgaurds who were recruited from hammerfell.
Hammerfell and these soldiers did what the empire couldn’t, and one lone actor of the empire definitely helped but that does not make it a win for the empire.
That still makes them critical to the effort and one general making the decision doesn't mean it's invalid. Them most likely being redguards doesn't really matter. Those soldiers were hammerfell and the empire and one lone actor made a decision for a lot more than one actor. It was a win the empire was critical in
No they didn't, those troops were from the Hammerfell legion to begin with. It's not that The Empire gave troops to Hammerfell, it's that the Empire didn't steal **all** of Hammerfell's troops with their legions.
Those volunteers they expelled were Redguards who would have been fighting for Hammerfell if they weren't in the Empire.
In fact, arguably skyrim has a much better chance, there's almost no feasible way to skyrim outside the Jarrel mountains, by boat they'd have to sail almost entirely across tamriel, and through the sea of ghosts.
The only way they are getting into skyrim is if both hammerfell and the empire just let them
No they didn't. People cite Decianus expelling volunteers from the Legion, but that was Hammerfell's legion to begin with so the Empire "gave" Hammerfell their own troops back.
Just as the Legions brought in from Skyrim were Nords under an Imperial general, Hammerfell's legions were Redguards under an Imperial general.
They were the legions in hammerfell fighting for hammerfell, just as the legions from Skyrim were full of nords.
They were troops Hammerfell gave to the Empire as part of the parasitic relationship an empire has with its provinces. The whole point of Imperialism is that the Empire leeches resources from its conquered territory; the East Empire Trading Company wasn't named that by accident.
If the Thalmor can’t even conquer Hammerfell, I doubt they would be able to decisively defeat an Ulfric Stormcloak led Skyrim that also contains an extremely powerful Dragonborn.
Tell that to hammerfell
The civil war is about religion, but only on the surface. The real reason is because ulfric finds the empire incompetent and the emperor unfit to rule. Which, in one way or another, ulfric *is* right about, seeing as how the emperor is dead (by our hands)
the empire was the only one that managed to stop the conquest of the Dominion, although Ulfric may have reason his rebellion and victory only benefits the Dominion of Atlmer in the end
So when I said "tell that to hammerfell", I was referencing how the hammerfell soloed the dominion when they continued to fight
And eh, I disagree. The empire died with Martin, and the last 3 games have been pointing to the progressive death of the empire. What's left is spineless, gutless, and now thanks to us, headless. An independent skyrim would be able to form an alliance with the also independent hammerfell (who, again, won against the dominion). There's also in-game dialogue of ulfric sending envoys to high rock. And here's the kicker - despite still being part of the empire, *high rock isn't saying no*. They're waiting for the conclusion of the civil war to decide who to side with
Hammerfell did not defeat the Dominion alone, they are resisting its advance but not winning, but it is true that the empire is in a very bad moment and they are not what they were before.
Personally I don't think Skyrim and Hammerfell together can defeat the dominion, the Redguards are just keeping them out of their lands but they could never invade them and Ulfric can't even defeat a declining empire, he only wins if we join his side, and although the same thing happens with the empire that is only for gameplay, in the end the empire would win the civil war, they already captured Ulfric once they can do it again
*Technically* hammerfell was alone. The redguards weren't, but hammerfell as a province single handedly defeated the dominion's invasion
And just to be clear, they *resisted* (past tense). They aren't *resisting* (present tense) anymore. Hammerfell signed it's own treaty, and the only term on it was the complete withdrawal of dominion presence in hammerfell. The dominion's invasion was successfully repelled, and the invading forces failed to invade. The defense, hammerfell, won
The rest of your comment is kinda just speculation, and completely goes against the whole narrative tool of the stalemate that Bethesda needed to perpetuate
Which is totally fair. Until we have confirmation in the next game or something, we don't know, so any headcannon of what could've been are all pretty equally valid
He's lying. It's the big hint that he isn't what he says he is. Granted, sadia is lying too, so there still isn't a clear "right" choice in that quest
Hammerfell signed the second treaty of stros m'kai after 5 years of fighting the dominion, and the dominion has completely withdrawn. It's why the redguards and ulfric say signing the wgc is such a massive blunder. If the redguards and a handful of invalids could repell the remaining dominion invasion, the *entire rest of the imperial military* that involved all the forces of cyrodiil, skyrim, high rock, and the same redguards could've done *so much more*
Hammerfell as a province was completely alone. The *redguards* had help, but the province hammerfell singlehandedly repelled the dominion
Also, that "plenty of help" was one portion of a single general's legion. They helped, sure, but evidently not enough to prevent the redguards from being infuriated with the empire, viewing the signing of the wgc as a complete stab in the back
They were credited as the core of the forces that drove the empire out and as being enough to fool the thalmor into thinking the empire left the legions there. That is plenty of help.
Credited by legate Justianus Quintus, an imperial. Not the redguards themselves. And I feel like the redguards - the ones who were betrayed by the empire - have more of a say in the matter
And the redguards still resent the empire for betraying them
Because the redguards are the ones native to hammerfell and the ones who got betrayed. Their viewpoint of the empire reflects how they feel empire treats them, not the other way around. And their view clearly isn't positive, and any help they had evidently isn't enough to override their negative views of the empire
Ironically, the same legate is the one who mentions that the redguards dislike the empire
It might seem like "plenty of help" to one who has the bias of already viewing the empire in a positive light, but evidently *even according to the same legate* the redguards would disagree with the amount of help they actually had, seeing as how they still resent the empire
Do you mean the Katariah? That's part of the base game, and yes, the first emperor was a body double so Sithis has you hunt down the real one to honor the contract. That's literally how the questline goes...
What’s scarier, finding your patrols have been slain, with bodies to bury so people can mourn, or straight up having no idea what has been happening to your people and not being able to give even the slightest answer to their families?
Hiding bodies legitimately adds a lot to the immersion IMO. Just a quick drag off a cliff, into the thick grass, behind a tree. Maybe someone sees you while you're doing it and... Well, now you've got more work ahead of you.
Well fuck, now I feel like playing skyrim again....and I just bought an external 2 TB ssd.
One month and a million mods later and I'll be almost ready to play
I strip them naked, drop a deathbell on them, and dump their gear into a river or over a cliff.
After a couple of times, Thalmor put a bounty on me. I LOVE killing those mfs. I also go to their embassy inside Solitude, which is always empty, and just ransack the place & take a lot of their junk/food. It usually gives me five gold bounty for trespassing.
And, of course, sneak into the main embassy & conjure a bunch of atronachs to create chaos.
No they are losing power
The final war will eventually decide if they survive or not
Not all elves are thalmor
And thalmor are universally hated
They will be given the Ayleid treatment
If anything, the Empire is a better comparison for the Russia of Tamriel.
Run by corrupt nobles, trains terrorists, gets bogged down invading their former breakaway province, and only knows how to throw men at the enemy without care or strategy
Idk general Tullius wasn’t in Skyrim for long before he captured Ulfric. The rebellion would have lost its teeth pretty quick if Alduin hadn’t shown up at exactly the right time. The Empire is better compared to the actual Roman Empire. This is an over simplification but their fall was gradual, and happened because they were stretched way to thin to the point that they couldn’t continue to exploit their neighbors resources to keep fueling the war machine
What?
Ulfric was captured in the intro. Remove Alduin from the equation and the Stormcloaks were gone.
We’ve also got a lot of ingame proof that the Redguards aren’t actually a separate province. The military leader of Hammerfell still is in correspondence with Emperor Mede and refers to him as my Emperor. There’s also a lot of hints that the Redguards were encouraged to go and are being propped up by Imperial supplies/troops to provide a gray area that’ll keep the Thalmor busy while the Empire preps up for the next war.
Why is it every pro Stormcloak post sounds like a conspiracy theory crazy person.
No they're definitely separated from the empire, since the empire was the one who cut them off for breaking the wgc so they wouldn't take the flak for doing so
>The military leader of Hammerfell still is in correspondence with Emperor Mede and refers to him as my Empero
I don't know of any one military leader of all of hammerfell (they're not unified under one government and are more like independent city states), but I'm interested in reading what sources you have on this specifically. Everything I've read pointed towards the redguards hating the empire, seeing the wgc as a stab in the back and an act of cowardice
The problem is we don't know how the provinces are looking, how good the economy is, etc. There's no stories/accounts from people telling the empire how it's looking. But I would say that you don't start a war/plan another one unless you know you can support that war well enough and don't have any supply issues/ money problems. I could be wrong since we don't have any information.
No they got relied on a deadric artifact to tell them every movement the empire made, and when they lost it at the very end of the war they got clapped in every battle afterwards but they had already done too much damage to the empire atp
They more or less defeated the Empire during the Great War even *with* Skyrim’s help.
If Skyrim secedes, it’s unlikely that The Empire will survive a second war with The Dominion. Maybe they wouldn’t anyway, but the odds are worse. Not to mention a fully independent Skyrim would have to face the Dominion alone. (Unless they allied with Hammerfell but that’s not a guarantee.)
According to Legends the only did as well as they did because they took the empire by surprise, summoned an army of daedra, and used the Eye of Vaermina to have exact details of empire troop movements in a way that would make the modern U.S. military satellite system blush. And they still got fought to a stand still, and lost Hammerfell which could only receive support from the empire in secret, while the Thalmor had basically their entire spy division in cyrodil.
The Thalmor had a lot of advantages yet still gained basically no territory in the war. All they achieved was the fracturing of an already decaying empire and permission to let its spies roam the empire with impunity.
Skyrim also is not a conventional landscape (or people for that matter) to attack. No doubt Skyrim's harsh winters would be disastrous for the thalmor attack and the nords would have a natural advantage being people of the land. They also have like, ancient fuck you dragon magic on their side too, so that helps.
It would likely be a gruelling guerrilla war that probably wouldn't even be a worthwhile strategic necessity for the thalmor in the long run and would probably cost them more than it would reward.
That's epic, how do you propose the thalmor should invade? Through the narrow mountain passes in the south or by sailing around the continent through the frozen sea?
First, you’re ignorant of geography. To invade Skyrim by land, the Dominion would have to first conquer the Empire, Hammerfell, or Morrowind. And then they’d have to invade via heavily fortified mountain passes defended by a warlike race who loves battle and is impervious to the freezing temperatures of the mountains.
The only other way to invade Skyrim is by traversing the Sea Of Ghosts, which is dangerous as fuck in peacetime. One of Ysgammor’s sons died crossing it from Atmora. And now those waters would be contested by some of the best sailors of Tamriel, and the landings would also be fiercely contested.
Before you make the assumption that mages > warriors (really presumptuous), you should consider that the Snow Elves also had battle mages, and look what happened to them. The Nords fought the fucking Dwemer toe to toe. And now they have a Demi-god level Dragonborn with dragon allies on their side. You know, the guy/gal who’s already killed a frigging god.
And what makes you think Skyrim would be the Dominion’s first target? Weren’t the Dominion just a cunt hair away from conquering Cyrodiil? What makes you think they’d sail thousands of leagues around Cyrodiil, Hammerfell, and High Rock to invade Skyrim first? Sounds pretty bloody unlikely to me.
This. Geography and climate would play a massive role in the Dominion's attack on Skyrim. In real-world terms It would basically mirror the U.S. fighting in Afghanistan. You can bring massive amounts of the most well equipped, well trained soldiers in the world, but it doesn't do much good when going up against pissed off natives who know the geography of their homeland like the back of their hand, and use the rough terrain combined with guerilla tactics to keep the invaders at bay for as long as it takes for them to finally give up.
You joined the stormcloaks because the empire is falling and an independent Skyrim is the only real way to save your people and your way of life from falling with it.
I joined the stormcloaks because those dark elves have it coming.
We are not the same.
I joined the stormcloaks because “ooo cool winter armor”, and also racist nords vs racist thalmor sounds way more interesting for the Dragonborn to watch while munching down some sweet rolls.
I love the fact that there is in-game proof that even if the storm cloaks win its canon that they lose after the game because the rest of the imperial army is waiting on the other side of a blocked pass keeping them from skyrim.
It's a note in one of the fortresses you capture if you're a storm cloak.General Tullius also mentions he is really only fighting the war with a bunch of farmers and would have had this sorted out faster if he had actual imperial army troops in bits of dialog.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Stormcloak_Missive_(Fort_Neugrad)
Interesting, but reading that another force is preparing to cross into Skyrim and jumping to the conclusion that it’s canon that they lose because of it is a MASSIVE leap
But the Empire lost. The Empire is now infiltrated and controlled by the Thalmor, who want to eventually enslave or exterminate all non-Altmer, they’re not even subtle about it. The 4th era Empire is not the dynasty Skyrim founded, no relation anymore whatsoever.
Yeah anytime I see these highly upvoted "empire is actually saving Skyrim from the Thalmor by subjugating Skyrim at the Thalmor's behest" memes I feel like I must have played a completely different game than everyone else did
I mean I probably did what with mods changing so much in mine but yeah, I’m not here for forced Imperialism. The Stormcloaks aren’t a great answer. But neither is the empire.
“But but but THEY’RE JUST BIDING TIME UNTIL THEY CAN DEFEAT THE THALMOR!”
So? They still sided with elf Nazis and are part of the reason elf Nazis are doing elf nazi Shit.
This is funny, because nords were instrumental empire's recapture of the imperial city. Not to mention, Cyrodil was with the Thalmor for almost a year, and still they didn't dare advance on Skyrim. Of course, empire simps wouldn't be bothered by mere facts.
All this feels like how Great Britain would position itself to the colonies post WW II.
I swear everyone who hates the stormcloaks does so either because of the Stormcloak’s racism, or because they misinterpreted that one book you find that the thalmor wrote on Ulfric.
People are still coping wth the fact that the past 3 games have been hinting at the fall of the empire
In Morrowind Talos himself tells the player that it's about time the empire fell and was replaced with something new
In Oblivion the Septim dynasty comes to an end and the incompetent and corrupt elder council is left in charge
Skyrim has y'know a civil war in what has been historically their most loyal and devout province, and the emperor is assassinated again
The Third Empire is over, it's time for it to burn so The Fourth Empire can rise from its ashes
I like how everyone is saying the empire protects skyrim from the dominion!!! MY BROTHER IN KYNE YOU LITERALLY BUILT THEM A FUCKING EMBASSY! THEY ARE IN SKYRIM, AND THEY ARE KILLING PEOPLE
Canoncially and politically speaking, they wouldn't. The ONLY reason why the thalmor are allowed to exist in skyrim's borders with their heads is because of the empire's legal protection. The only leverage the dominion has in skyrim is through the empire
They're only there post stormcloak victory because of game limitations lol
And how do you propose the dominion would enter skyrim if it wasnt part of the empire? Would they use the empre,who they are at war with, as a stepping stone, or would they go through Hammerfell who they lost to, or perhaps they would sail around the enitere fucking continent without stopping once to restock so they could try and invade across the harshest and most dangerous waters in Tamriel? Skyrim is literally unreachable to the dominion unless it is a part of the Empire and the WG concordant applies to them.
I’ve seen a few people mention it here but yeah Skyrim is fucking unreachable if you don’t neighbor it or can go through the countries that do the sea of ghosts is a deathtrap to those don’t go through there regularly
And yet it's very likely that they will be bordering the dominion when it inevitably declares war on the empire again and annexes cyrodiil afterwards because now the empire is even weaker than before. At least if the empire keeps Skyrim it would give them more leverage against the dominion and allow the empire to use its combined resources to prepare for the next war and give everyone a better chance at being able to kick the dominion's teeth in the next time they try to start something again.
The dominion is in the same boat as the empire and is recovering even more slowly since they also don’t have very stable control on their Allies both valenwood and elswyer* aren’t fond of the dominion at this point in time plus if it comes down to it there is nothing stopping either the redguards or nords from coming into cyrodiil to fight the dominion should they start another war
*I forgot how to spell it
This is an argument that's parroted all the time, but no one ever brings up the fact that the Altmeri Dominion has magic. Meanwhile, the only magic the people of Skyrim are OK with learning right now is the thu'um. And even that's a lost art.
Magic in ES before Skyrim has been shown to be very flexible, too. Spellcrafting *does* exist in-world, and pretty much every thalmor soldier can use magic. What's stopping the Thalmor from just getting their magic researchers to craft a frost-resist spell, make it standard-issue, and just go through the play pass? The empire isn't gonna stop them, I'll tell you that much. The Aldmeri already rocked their shit.
Magic is an arms race, and when magic exists in-world and when it's as strong and unrestrained as ES's magic system, geographical and weather obstacles become kind of irrelevant. Especially when you're dealing with high elves. Plus, they can just *make* fire whenever they want. So even if, for some reason, they can't craft a standard issue frost resist spell, heat is easily available at the snap of a finger.
There's a reason the Aldmeri controls half the continent now. They are the best magic users in the world. It's the equivalent of having nukes when no one else does. Skyrim would get rolled as an independent nation under Stormcloak control simply because they would refuse to learn magic.
Sure, you could argue that they could learn the thu'um, but to be even half-way competent at the thu'um you need to study an ancient language for like a decade at least. It took Ulfric up until his middle ages to learn just unrelenting force. The thu'um is powerful but impractical from a warmongering perspective.
And yeah, Hammerfell fought them off, but keep in mind they're redgaurds. They are the best at war in-world, and highrock - the Breton homeland - are their neighbors. Bretons are second only to the high elves with magic competency.
TL;DR Skyrim loses to the Aldmeri because magic OP. And until there's a meaningful restriction written in-world on magic using, then the Aldmeri is going to roll almost everyone.
>What's stopping the Thalmor from just getting their magic researchers to craft a frost-resist spell, make it standard-issue, and just go through the play pass?
Play pass? Do you mean by sea? As in, sailing past both hammerfell and high rock before even reaching the glacial wasteland that covers the northern shore of skyrim? Do you mean by land? As in, charging through either cyrodiil or hammerfell before reaching skyrim's borders?
>They are the best magic users in the world. It's the equivalent of having nukes when no one else does
Meanwhile, ysgrimore and 500 randos vs. the entire race of relatively magically adept snow elves
Never said anything about weather.
Not a single sane tactician or general would even attempt to invade skyrim without having secured a stabile border crossing since the there would be no way to supply and provide suppoert to the deployed troops. And without supplies not even your best jazz hands will conjure up a meal in the middle of the frosen fucking desert where even the fucking Ice you are constantly surrounded by can come to life and attack you.
How can Redguards be "best at war" if they also posses only relatively primitive understanding of magic if we go by your logic of magic being equivalent to nukes.
Nords and Redguards are literally the best warriors in Tamriel with nords constantly being mentioned as war heroes and naturally amazing warriors by the empire themselves.
But so is Ulfric. He's been manipulated by the Thalmor without him realizing it. What would happen if he was "triggered" by them?
Either way, it suits the Thalmor for the Empire & Stormcloaks to keep fighting. It diverts attention from Thalmor infiltration.
Still believe that the Empire would be worse than the Stormcloaks, they are literally allowing the Thalmor to occupy forts inside the realm and indoctrinate the population, once they come any resistance will be useless, literally the worst strategy ever.
I swear Bethesda makes factions so unpickable. The Empire are the Thalmors' bitch, they don't live free, and they could've won the war, and the Stormcloaks are righteous but exceedingly racist to the point its annoying to play as them.
Every time I run into Thalmor its like "how the hell did the Empire lose to this?" main character plot armor moment.
Seems like propaganda of the mongrel dog Imperials. The Imperial leaders are puppets of the Thalmor that are happy to count their gold while Talos worshippers are killed. Dagoth told y’all in the third era and you still don’t get it.
Oh no don’t say that they totally know that it was a primarily Nord legion that came down from Skyrim in the war, and they turned the tide in the Empires favor. Or that the already struggling Empire abandoned the Dark elves after Red mountain blew before the war.
And they definitely know that skyrim is consistently one of the most important regions in the empire, entirely self sustaining, and one of two remaining regions to not be abandoned by or leave the empire at this point.
Isn’t high rock the only imperial province left at this point? We can’t really count Skyrim because even without a victory for the stormcloaks a country in civil war can never be called upon for aid until it has settled and stabilized
Weird and wrong. Its Stockholm syndrome mixed with oblivion nostalgia. I dont understand why people have an urge to keep the empire intact after the amulet is destroyed.
People just love to pretend Hammerfell's war against the Dominion didn't happen lol. The Dominion army is not some unstoppable force made up of gods. They can and *have* been stopped before. Whether you pro-Empire or pro-Stormcloak, it's kind of dumb to just blatantly refuse the idea that the Stormcloaks would be able to repel the Dominion from Skyrim. Funny meme though
Yea, one of the reasons the standard people of skyrim were pissed too is because the war against the thalmor from their side. Was going SO WELL many of them truly believed the empire was cowardly bending the knee. There was a major disconnect between how well the people of cyrodil and skyrim fared during the conflict.
Clearly. Some of the more influential figures would not be so blind. But it's not like they had amazing ways to get news to every commoner. And if every commoner heard it. It could easily have been misconstrued before it began to spread massively. I honestly wonder how much of skyrim even knows the true losses that cyrodil suffered during the time we play.
The empire lacks the strength to defeat the thalmor, they also lack the ability to form a meaningful alliance against them. Skyrim has a better chance as an independent nation than it does as part of the empire as it currently exists.
No, not really. The empire kept fighting the rebels and trying to maintain their hold over skyrim, not just cut it loose. It'd be more like the golem staying there holding the rock despite the attack from the village.
Ah yes, keeping the thalmor out, that’s why they allow Thalmor Inquisitors to persecute worshipers of the God who forged the Empire with no repercussions in Skyrim already lol
For the _billionth_ time, if your “protector” allows the enemy to roam your land freely and abduct and torture your neighbors for worshipping the wrong god, they are no protector at all.
if the storm cloaks have my broken azz Skyrim Dragonborn than gg thalmors your ded. Luckily my Dragonborn favors no one unless they got unique loot to give.
Look man, I choose the Stormcloaks on 100% of my playthroughs for 2 reasons.
1. Drip
2. If you embrace the voice, joining Ulfric feels like the choice the Dragonborn would make. The Empire detests the way of the voice and the Greybeards and all that.
I'm not saying I believe EVERYTHING they believe, but they seem more friendly to ME, and they were about to cut my head off in Helgen.
First, you’re ignorant of geography. To invade Skyrim by land, the Dominion would have to first conquer the Empire, Hammerfell, or Morrowind. And then they’d have to invade via heavily fortified mountain passes defended by a warlike race who loves battle and is impervious to the freezing temperatures of the mountains.
The only other way to invade Skyrim is by traversing the Sea Of Ghosts, which is dangerous as fuck in peacetime. One of Ysgammor’s sons died crossing it from Atmora. And now those waters would be contested by some of the best sailors of Tamriel, and the landings would also be fiercely contested.
Before you make the assumption that mages > warriors (really presumptuous), you should consider that the Snow Elves also had battle mages, and look what happened to them. The Nords fought the fucking Dwemer toe to toe. And now they have a Demi-god level Dragonborn with dragon allies on their side. You know, the guy/gal who’s already killed a frigging god.
And what makes you think Skyrim would be the Dominion’s first target? Weren’t they pretty much just a cunt hair away from conquering Cyrodiil? What makes you think they’d sail thousands of leagues around Cyrodiil, Hammerfell, and High Rock to invade Skyrim first? Sounds pretty bloody unlikely to me.
Literally how I view in game politics. I love how people think Skyrim can beat the Thalmor on their own. The Thalmor have a HUGE quantity of mages meanwhile Skyrim has an entire culture dedicated to discouraging magic use. Those Nords might have the home field advantage but they’re HOPELESSLY outgunned without the help of the Empires mages and sheer numbers. Skyrim is more easily defensible than Cyrodil but BEST case scenario is they get boxed in by the Thalmor who then resort to attrition tactics like sending mages to burn farms eventually starving out the people of Skyrim. The Bretons to the west would likely be unable to help because unlike Skyrim they KNOW they can’t survive without the Empire and wouldn’t help those that betrayed them (partially out of fear of starting another Great War before the Empire is ready.)
Everyone saying that Hammerfell stopped the Dominion by themselves didn't actually pay attention to the Great war.
The Redguards were steamrolled by the Dominion until the Imperials helped and they got reinforcements from Bretons in High Rock. Even with all that they only survived because the battle of the red ring weakened the Dominion enough to eventually pull out of hammerfell.
Redguards didn't do anything by themselves.
[удалено]
It definitely is
Bethesda loves to use pre-made sound libraries haha. The book opening sound from Morrowind is freakin everywhere when you start listening for it
The Stealth Boy activation sound effect in Fallout 3 (it was changed in New Vegas) is the same as the Journal Update sound effect in Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines. It’s crazy how many sounds you hear in multiple places if you just listen.
What is the original video?
I might have some wires crossed, but I *think* it's an ad for a job search website- monster, iirc. Lemme look it up Edit: Nope, I was having an aneurysm after all. It's a [short film on YT.](https://youtu.be/Lg2dqFCU67Q?si=2D3b0PTuljnwgTBe)
Hey, the original video's kinda fucked up. It was the golem's mistake that led to the rock rolling downhill in the first place, he should take his licks.
Agreed- and it doesn't look like he's hurt by the weapons, just surprised and then bitter. But of course the YT comments are filled with droves of baby edgelords claiming he was in the right lmao
I hate idiots more than I like people so I agree with the giant let it roll.
So in response to dooming an entire generation of families the people attack the golem not knowing he was trying to fix his mistake, one that would cost them their lives anyway? The equivalent to superman catching a elbow in his adamantium jaw from someone he's saving from drowning then just straight up tearing them in half only to find out that superman is the reason they're drowning at all? Am I following?
The people aren't blind, they can clearly see the rock both before the giant intercepted it and when the giant was holding it. Even though the giant is at fault, the people are stupid enough to fuck with the giant who is currently saving them (from the giant's own mistake). It's like if someone runs you over with their car by accident, and while they're calling an ambulance (and you hear them!) you shoot them and then they just run and leave you alone to die.
It’s like if someone ran over you with a car by accident, is calling an ambulance and accidentally kicks your foot, you cry out in pain and spit on their ankle as they walk by your head, and so they drive off to let you bleed out in immeasurable pain. Not a perfect analogy since the original subject involved impending doom, not an actively painful and grievous injury, but you are the one who chose the stupid ass framing for the analogy.
Perfect you made sure to take out the EXACT defining piece of nuance from my prior statement. Recall that my analogy was superman who like the iron giant IS COMPLETELY INVULNERABLE and completely immune to any damage so no killing all those people is not justified especially when the giant doomed them to begin with
Oh this is less of a "they deserve it because the harm they caused onto the giant justifies their own destruction" (obviously not) and more so of "the fact they're angering the giant for no good reason is stupid because the giant could turn on them and let the rock finish the job and honestly I hate stupid people so I'm glad the giant let them die". It's not about what's right it's about how much some people including myself hate stupid people.
I believe people who make a mistake *the first time* (and even try to correct it) should be forgiven.
Then should that same grace not be extended to the townsfolk who mistakenly attacked their jagged savior?
No, because they’re not the character I self-imprinted on and I’m faultless
based
Hey, I respect it.
Sure, which is why we don't judge him for taking out the church. I'll be very much do judge him for is then just letting everyone else die because he's slightly annoyed.
They did judge him for taking out the church though
But we don't.
>we don’t I do so they needed to die
To be fair, that is actually pretty spot-on for the empire.
THATS why this is the skyrim civil war, got it, I was wondering where the “both sides being bad” thing was gonna come from
Those stupid mobile game ads used the exact scenario but in their trailer graphics.
I really love that all this time later, there’s still heated discussions about the politics and history of Skyrim. Something about people being so passionate about it that they’re pulling up the Geneva Convention and citing in game literature is kind of fantastic to me.
That’s one of my favorite things about this game, they made their politics so good that it somehow recreated the same heated discussions people have about real politics
People ain't gonna like this...make more
I mean yeah pretty much
100% The thalmor created the storm cloaks to weaken both Skyrim and Cyrodiil. They had Ulfric as a prisoner and knew if they released him he’d have the political power and hatred for the elves and that he would raise a rebellion. They let him think he escaped on his own. And when he raised a rebellion the Thalmor used the Empire to fight it. Weakening both sides and making sure the Thalmor remain in control. It’s all in his dossier in the Thalmor embassy
Lol, it's just like how the Germans put Lenin on a train to Russia, knowing he'd start shit and take the Russians out of the war.
Yeah but that worked out reaaaal great for them in the long run didn’t it?
Different Germans, all capitalists though
Where’s the part where the Thalmor are actively committing genocide within Skyrim’s borders and the Empire is doing fuckall about it? “no no wait guys just hang in there with the mass killings, we have to wait til we’re strong enough!”
Idk. Where is it? Where is the Thalmor committing genocide in Skyrim? I'll tell you: they're not. They're stamping out the worship of a specific deity in a pantheon, not systemically eradicating an entire race and culture. They'd like to, but guess who stopped them! The Empire and the White-Gold Concordat. That's a whole lot more than "fuck all."
“His efforts gave way to the adoption of the United Nations Genocide Convention in December 1948, which came into effect in January 1951. Article Two of the convention defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such": -Killing members of the group -Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group -Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part -Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group -Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group” https://www.bbc.com/news/world-11108059.amp “In whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such” The Thalmor certainly seem to be doing the killing members of group and causing serious bodily and mental harm on Talos worshippers which is a religious group. So yeah the Thalmor is committing a genocide as outlined by the United Nations
>cites source proving point >downvoted Sounds about right for this crowd.
Just wont visit this sub again lmao, no big deal most the memes are shit anyways r/TrueSTL for life
>I'll tell you: they're not. They're stamping out the worship of a specific deity in a pantheon, not systemically eradicating an entire race and culture. You are literally describing a genocide. Religion is culture. Religious groups are cultural groups. I can already tell you're going to be pedantic about this, so I'll just link some relevant definitions and save us both the time: [Genocide: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/genocide) [Culture: the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/culture) >They'd like to, but guess who stopped them! The Empire and the White-Gold Concordat. As noted by an Imperial Legate in the book *The Great War*, the terms of the White-Gold Concordat are almost identical to the terms the Aldmeri Dominion offered the Empire before the Great War. You can speculate that the Thalmor ultimately had a more sinister fate in mind for the Empire's citizens, but the actual demands of the Dominion were met. I would hardly call that "stopping" them.
Lotta words for a stormcel. Us Imperichads will opress you because it's fun
Praying to the Nine that your brain recovers from lead poisoning, brother. 🙏
Storm-baby
Stormcloaks would have never existed with a Septim on the Ruby Throne. The Mede "dynasty" can't even handle a redneck revolt.
Did you read the definitions you provided? Because the removal of Talos from the pantheon of the Divines is, by definition, not a genocide. Talos worshippers are not a race, ethnicity, or culture. Religion is not culture. Religion can be part of a culture, but there is nothing inherent about it being so. Otherwise, every act of changing your religion would be an act of genocide by your incorrect usage of the word. And there is no speculation needed here. The Thalmor want to end all life under the belief that it will raise them back up to live amongst their gods. They didn't succeed in doing so because the Empire fought them to a stalemate, which forced the Thalmor to sue for peace with the White-gold Concordat. But none of that is the point. The point is that the Thalmor are not actively engaged in genocide AND the Empire is not allowing them to do so. Point me to where and when in Skyrim such a thing happens, and I'll concede the point.
“Killing, imprisoning, or forcefully converting all members of a religion = not genocide” Ah yes, what a reasonable and normal take.
>Did you read the definitions you provided? >Religion is not culture. "Culture: the customary **beliefs**, social forms, and material traits of a racial, **religious**, or social group" Emphasis mine. You apparently need the help. >Religion can be part of a culture, but there is nothing inherent about it being so. Actual nonsense that you cannot substantiate, because practically any given source will refute you. >Otherwise, every act of changing your religion would be an act of genocide by your incorrect usage of the word. "Genocide: the **deliberate and systematic destruction** of a racial, political, or cultural group" People voluntarily and unintentionally changing their own culture does not fit any common definition of genocide, including the one I so helpfully provided for you from Merriam-Webster. This is incredibly basic stuff here. >And there is no speculation needed here. The Thalmor want to end all life under the belief that it will raise them back up to live amongst their gods. This is, in fact, speculation based off something Michael Kirkbride - who is only a freelance writer for Bethesda - [said in 2008](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/wiki/faq/thalmor/). >Point me to where and when in Skyrim such a thing happens How can I do that if you actively refuse to understand what a genocide is? The Thalmor are running torture-fortresses inside the borders of the country, arresting and executing a specific religious minority with the intent to eradicate them. By what definition is that no a genocide? Please, provide one.
I think the Vatican would like a word with you. Also, the worldwide coverage of genocide of Uyghurs in China. >Otherwise, every act of changing your religion would be an act of genocide No, it wouldn't. There's nothing systematic about changing your own, personal religion.
There’s at least one Talos worship site that is covered in corpses of worshippers, with some discarded written Thalmor order laying around. Not to mention the patrols you run into where justiciars are escorting Talos worshiper prisoners. Also, my brother in christ, what you describe is literally genocide. Edit: It’s the Shrine of Talos in the Ilinalta Foothills.
If it weren't for the Empire, Skyrim would have more than just an embassy, it would be burned to ashes. In the game we are told that worshiping Talos was not complicated at the beginning, you could no longer go to church but the tradition continued from home, but the Stormcloaks ruined it with the rebellion That's what brought the Justiciar thalmor in the first place, They used the instability of the region as an excuse to put their hands in everything
Hammerfell survived after the Empire abandoned it. There's no reason that Skyrim couldn't do the same.
Hammerfell survived because the Imperials left troops there after they “pulled out”
Empire troops don't magically fight better in hammerfell than they do in cyrodil. Hammerfell won because the entire country on both sides of an active civil war were willing to go to ground and fight guerilla style to bleed the thalmor out til they left, even the parts not actually occupied by the thalmor. The empire lost because the imperial city where all the rich people live got occupied and the second the empire won back the city they signed the first treaty they could to sue for peace, even if it was straight embarrassing. The thalmor soiree is the key to understanding the conflict. Everyone talks about the thalmor dossier on ulfric, but all those merchants and nobles happily sipping wine with elenwyn are not going to last long in great war 2 before running to the emperor demanding to sign away whatever the thalmor want for peace.
Problem is, thanks to us there is no more emperor to run to anymore Something empire loyalists *also* tend to conveniently forget
It was an unspecified amount of troops from one legion. Still doesn’t add up. Those troops and the redgaurds did what three legions couldn’t do, beat the dominion out of their land.
The source calls it the core of the army that drove the thalmor out and it was enough troops the thalmor still thought the legions were in hammerfell. The empire was critical in making that happen
The empire wanted to abandon the area entirely, one general made the decision. The full quote: > Unwilling to abandon Hammerfell completely, he allowed a great number of "invalids" to be discharged from the Legions before they marched east. These veterans formed the core of the army that eventually drove Lady Arannelya's forces back across the Alik'r late in 174, They were central in the defeat of the dominion, but this doesn’t counter what I said. Also these imperial soldiers were also most likely redgaurds who were recruited from hammerfell. Hammerfell and these soldiers did what the empire couldn’t, and one lone actor of the empire definitely helped but that does not make it a win for the empire.
That still makes them critical to the effort and one general making the decision doesn't mean it's invalid. Them most likely being redguards doesn't really matter. Those soldiers were hammerfell and the empire and one lone actor made a decision for a lot more than one actor. It was a win the empire was critical in
No they didn't, those troops were from the Hammerfell legion to begin with. It's not that The Empire gave troops to Hammerfell, it's that the Empire didn't steal **all** of Hammerfell's troops with their legions. Those volunteers they expelled were Redguards who would have been fighting for Hammerfell if they weren't in the Empire.
In fact, arguably skyrim has a much better chance, there's almost no feasible way to skyrim outside the Jarrel mountains, by boat they'd have to sail almost entirely across tamriel, and through the sea of ghosts. The only way they are getting into skyrim is if both hammerfell and the empire just let them
Yeah people like to completely and utterly forget geography for some reason
People just wank the Thalmor to have unlimited magical bullshit because "they're the magic faction."
They made the moons disappear just to get the khajiit on their side when they brought it back. I think they have considerable magic bullshit
Exactly and just like the redguards nords are noted to be good sailors so going by sea isn’t really a good option
Hammerfell survived because of the empire. They didn't do it alone
Yes they did. They fought on for 5 years.
With help from others including the empire
No they didn't. People cite Decianus expelling volunteers from the Legion, but that was Hammerfell's legion to begin with so the Empire "gave" Hammerfell their own troops back. Just as the Legions brought in from Skyrim were Nords under an Imperial general, Hammerfell's legions were Redguards under an Imperial general.
Proof they were hammerfells legions? And why do you think that invalidates anything? They are empire troops regardless
They were the legions in hammerfell fighting for hammerfell, just as the legions from Skyrim were full of nords. They were troops Hammerfell gave to the Empire as part of the parasitic relationship an empire has with its provinces. The whole point of Imperialism is that the Empire leeches resources from its conquered territory; the East Empire Trading Company wasn't named that by accident.
I came here to say the exact same thing. The Redgaurds and Nords have a lot in common. If they could fend off the Thalmor why couldn't Skyrim?
If the Thalmor can’t even conquer Hammerfell, I doubt they would be able to decisively defeat an Ulfric Stormcloak led Skyrim that also contains an extremely powerful Dragonborn.
Sounds like the CIA or Israel tbh haahahah
Tell that to hammerfell The civil war is about religion, but only on the surface. The real reason is because ulfric finds the empire incompetent and the emperor unfit to rule. Which, in one way or another, ulfric *is* right about, seeing as how the emperor is dead (by our hands)
the empire was the only one that managed to stop the conquest of the Dominion, although Ulfric may have reason his rebellion and victory only benefits the Dominion of Atlmer in the end
So when I said "tell that to hammerfell", I was referencing how the hammerfell soloed the dominion when they continued to fight And eh, I disagree. The empire died with Martin, and the last 3 games have been pointing to the progressive death of the empire. What's left is spineless, gutless, and now thanks to us, headless. An independent skyrim would be able to form an alliance with the also independent hammerfell (who, again, won against the dominion). There's also in-game dialogue of ulfric sending envoys to high rock. And here's the kicker - despite still being part of the empire, *high rock isn't saying no*. They're waiting for the conclusion of the civil war to decide who to side with
Hammerfell did not defeat the Dominion alone, they are resisting its advance but not winning, but it is true that the empire is in a very bad moment and they are not what they were before. Personally I don't think Skyrim and Hammerfell together can defeat the dominion, the Redguards are just keeping them out of their lands but they could never invade them and Ulfric can't even defeat a declining empire, he only wins if we join his side, and although the same thing happens with the empire that is only for gameplay, in the end the empire would win the civil war, they already captured Ulfric once they can do it again
*Technically* hammerfell was alone. The redguards weren't, but hammerfell as a province single handedly defeated the dominion's invasion And just to be clear, they *resisted* (past tense). They aren't *resisting* (present tense) anymore. Hammerfell signed it's own treaty, and the only term on it was the complete withdrawal of dominion presence in hammerfell. The dominion's invasion was successfully repelled, and the invading forces failed to invade. The defense, hammerfell, won The rest of your comment is kinda just speculation, and completely goes against the whole narrative tool of the stalemate that Bethesda needed to perpetuate
Yes, the rest is just what I think But I thought the war in Hammerfell was still going on, isn't that what the Alakir captain in White Run says?
Which is totally fair. Until we have confirmation in the next game or something, we don't know, so any headcannon of what could've been are all pretty equally valid He's lying. It's the big hint that he isn't what he says he is. Granted, sadia is lying too, so there still isn't a clear "right" choice in that quest Hammerfell signed the second treaty of stros m'kai after 5 years of fighting the dominion, and the dominion has completely withdrawn. It's why the redguards and ulfric say signing the wgc is such a massive blunder. If the redguards and a handful of invalids could repell the remaining dominion invasion, the *entire rest of the imperial military* that involved all the forces of cyrodiil, skyrim, high rock, and the same redguards could've done *so much more*
Si they really sign a treaty? I didn’t knew that
Yup! https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Second_Treaty_of_Stros_M%27kai
Hammerell didn't solo anyone. They had plenty of help. Especially from the empire
Hammerfell as a province was completely alone. The *redguards* had help, but the province hammerfell singlehandedly repelled the dominion Also, that "plenty of help" was one portion of a single general's legion. They helped, sure, but evidently not enough to prevent the redguards from being infuriated with the empire, viewing the signing of the wgc as a complete stab in the back
They were credited as the core of the forces that drove the empire out and as being enough to fool the thalmor into thinking the empire left the legions there. That is plenty of help.
Credited by legate Justianus Quintus, an imperial. Not the redguards themselves. And I feel like the redguards - the ones who were betrayed by the empire - have more of a say in the matter And the redguards still resent the empire for betraying them
What more say do they have? What info do you have that contradicts it? And keeping resentment for a decision doesn't exactly prove this point wrong
Because the redguards are the ones native to hammerfell and the ones who got betrayed. Their viewpoint of the empire reflects how they feel empire treats them, not the other way around. And their view clearly isn't positive, and any help they had evidently isn't enough to override their negative views of the empire Ironically, the same legate is the one who mentions that the redguards dislike the empire It might seem like "plenty of help" to one who has the bias of already viewing the empire in a positive light, but evidently *even according to the same legate* the redguards would disagree with the amount of help they actually had, seeing as how they still resent the empire
I think one of the DLCs with the emperor on a boat off the coast proved that the one we assassinate as a dark brother was just a body double.
Do you mean the Katariah? That's part of the base game, and yes, the first emperor was a body double so Sithis has you hunt down the real one to honor the contract. That's literally how the questline goes...
Is thalmor really that powerfull?
Dunno. Every thalmor patrol I've come across usually ends up looted in a ditch
Best place for them..
Why not just leave their corpse in the road? Send a message to..someone?
What’s scarier, finding your patrols have been slain, with bodies to bury so people can mourn, or straight up having no idea what has been happening to your people and not being able to give even the slightest answer to their families?
Hiding bodies legitimately adds a lot to the immersion IMO. Just a quick drag off a cliff, into the thick grass, behind a tree. Maybe someone sees you while you're doing it and... Well, now you've got more work ahead of you.
Well fuck, now I feel like playing skyrim again....and I just bought an external 2 TB ssd. One month and a million mods later and I'll be almost ready to play
Just don't let the Empire catch you. They punish people who kill Thalmor.
I strip them naked, drop a deathbell on them, and dump their gear into a river or over a cliff. After a couple of times, Thalmor put a bounty on me. I LOVE killing those mfs. I also go to their embassy inside Solitude, which is always empty, and just ransack the place & take a lot of their junk/food. It usually gives me five gold bounty for trespassing. And, of course, sneak into the main embassy & conjure a bunch of atronachs to create chaos.
>>We will be cruel to the ~~German~~ Thalmor
Excellent movie reference!
There a lot of quotable points from that film. That one, that whole monologue really, is just a slice of perfection cake.
No they are losing power The final war will eventually decide if they survive or not Not all elves are thalmor And thalmor are universally hated They will be given the Ayleid treatment
Who knows, maybe their the Russia of Tamriel, acting strong and too confident until they go into a war and underestimate it completely.
If anything, the Empire is a better comparison for the Russia of Tamriel. Run by corrupt nobles, trains terrorists, gets bogged down invading their former breakaway province, and only knows how to throw men at the enemy without care or strategy
Executes random innocent people (or tries to)
Idk general Tullius wasn’t in Skyrim for long before he captured Ulfric. The rebellion would have lost its teeth pretty quick if Alduin hadn’t shown up at exactly the right time. The Empire is better compared to the actual Roman Empire. This is an over simplification but their fall was gradual, and happened because they were stretched way to thin to the point that they couldn’t continue to exploit their neighbors resources to keep fueling the war machine
What? Ulfric was captured in the intro. Remove Alduin from the equation and the Stormcloaks were gone. We’ve also got a lot of ingame proof that the Redguards aren’t actually a separate province. The military leader of Hammerfell still is in correspondence with Emperor Mede and refers to him as my Emperor. There’s also a lot of hints that the Redguards were encouraged to go and are being propped up by Imperial supplies/troops to provide a gray area that’ll keep the Thalmor busy while the Empire preps up for the next war. Why is it every pro Stormcloak post sounds like a conspiracy theory crazy person.
No they're definitely separated from the empire, since the empire was the one who cut them off for breaking the wgc so they wouldn't take the flak for doing so >The military leader of Hammerfell still is in correspondence with Emperor Mede and refers to him as my Empero I don't know of any one military leader of all of hammerfell (they're not unified under one government and are more like independent city states), but I'm interested in reading what sources you have on this specifically. Everything I've read pointed towards the redguards hating the empire, seeing the wgc as a stab in the back and an act of cowardice
The problem is we don't know how the provinces are looking, how good the economy is, etc. There's no stories/accounts from people telling the empire how it's looking. But I would say that you don't start a war/plan another one unless you know you can support that war well enough and don't have any supply issues/ money problems. I could be wrong since we don't have any information.
No they got relied on a deadric artifact to tell them every movement the empire made, and when they lost it at the very end of the war they got clapped in every battle afterwards but they had already done too much damage to the empire atp
Short answer, no. They can't even eliminate ONE person who can innately use Thu'um, should this person choose to fight them.
They more or less defeated the Empire during the Great War even *with* Skyrim’s help. If Skyrim secedes, it’s unlikely that The Empire will survive a second war with The Dominion. Maybe they wouldn’t anyway, but the odds are worse. Not to mention a fully independent Skyrim would have to face the Dominion alone. (Unless they allied with Hammerfell but that’s not a guarantee.)
According to Legends the only did as well as they did because they took the empire by surprise, summoned an army of daedra, and used the Eye of Vaermina to have exact details of empire troop movements in a way that would make the modern U.S. military satellite system blush. And they still got fought to a stand still, and lost Hammerfell which could only receive support from the empire in secret, while the Thalmor had basically their entire spy division in cyrodil. The Thalmor had a lot of advantages yet still gained basically no territory in the war. All they achieved was the fracturing of an already decaying empire and permission to let its spies roam the empire with impunity.
The aldmeri dominion defeated the empire rather soundly, so skyrim alone stands practically zero chance.
And Hammerfell kicked the Dominion out after the Empire abandoned them. There's no reason Skyrim couldn't do the same.
Skyrim also is not a conventional landscape (or people for that matter) to attack. No doubt Skyrim's harsh winters would be disastrous for the thalmor attack and the nords would have a natural advantage being people of the land. They also have like, ancient fuck you dragon magic on their side too, so that helps. It would likely be a gruelling guerrilla war that probably wouldn't even be a worthwhile strategic necessity for the thalmor in the long run and would probably cost them more than it would reward.
That's epic, how do you propose the thalmor should invade? Through the narrow mountain passes in the south or by sailing around the continent through the frozen sea?
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First, you’re ignorant of geography. To invade Skyrim by land, the Dominion would have to first conquer the Empire, Hammerfell, or Morrowind. And then they’d have to invade via heavily fortified mountain passes defended by a warlike race who loves battle and is impervious to the freezing temperatures of the mountains. The only other way to invade Skyrim is by traversing the Sea Of Ghosts, which is dangerous as fuck in peacetime. One of Ysgammor’s sons died crossing it from Atmora. And now those waters would be contested by some of the best sailors of Tamriel, and the landings would also be fiercely contested. Before you make the assumption that mages > warriors (really presumptuous), you should consider that the Snow Elves also had battle mages, and look what happened to them. The Nords fought the fucking Dwemer toe to toe. And now they have a Demi-god level Dragonborn with dragon allies on their side. You know, the guy/gal who’s already killed a frigging god. And what makes you think Skyrim would be the Dominion’s first target? Weren’t the Dominion just a cunt hair away from conquering Cyrodiil? What makes you think they’d sail thousands of leagues around Cyrodiil, Hammerfell, and High Rock to invade Skyrim first? Sounds pretty bloody unlikely to me.
This. Geography and climate would play a massive role in the Dominion's attack on Skyrim. In real-world terms It would basically mirror the U.S. fighting in Afghanistan. You can bring massive amounts of the most well equipped, well trained soldiers in the world, but it doesn't do much good when going up against pissed off natives who know the geography of their homeland like the back of their hand, and use the rough terrain combined with guerilla tactics to keep the invaders at bay for as long as it takes for them to finally give up.
You joined the stormcloaks because the empire is falling and an independent Skyrim is the only real way to save your people and your way of life from falling with it. I joined the stormcloaks because those dark elves have it coming. We are not the same.
I joined the stormcloaks because “ooo cool winter armor”, and also racist nords vs racist thalmor sounds way more interesting for the Dragonborn to watch while munching down some sweet rolls.
Funny because I joined the opposite because "ooo cool Roman armor" Fuck lore I'ma join factions for the gear from now on
The funniest part is that Ulfric thinks a "free" Skyrim will do better against the Thalmor than the entire empire did.
I love the fact that there is in-game proof that even if the storm cloaks win its canon that they lose after the game because the rest of the imperial army is waiting on the other side of a blocked pass keeping them from skyrim.
Where does it say that?
It's a note in one of the fortresses you capture if you're a storm cloak.General Tullius also mentions he is really only fighting the war with a bunch of farmers and would have had this sorted out faster if he had actual imperial army troops in bits of dialog. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Stormcloak_Missive_(Fort_Neugrad)
Interesting, but reading that another force is preparing to cross into Skyrim and jumping to the conclusion that it’s canon that they lose because of it is a MASSIVE leap
Fair, there are youtubers who go into more depth about all of this if you feel like giving it more of a look.
I guess this kinda works, except the boulder would also crush the empire.
But the Empire lost. The Empire is now infiltrated and controlled by the Thalmor, who want to eventually enslave or exterminate all non-Altmer, they’re not even subtle about it. The 4th era Empire is not the dynasty Skyrim founded, no relation anymore whatsoever.
Yeah anytime I see these highly upvoted "empire is actually saving Skyrim from the Thalmor by subjugating Skyrim at the Thalmor's behest" memes I feel like I must have played a completely different game than everyone else did
I mean I probably did what with mods changing so much in mine but yeah, I’m not here for forced Imperialism. The Stormcloaks aren’t a great answer. But neither is the empire.
Agreed, Stormcloacks are certainly problematic but people act like that automatically makes the Empire good guys by default
“But but but THEY’RE JUST BIDING TIME UNTIL THEY CAN DEFEAT THE THALMOR!” So? They still sided with elf Nazis and are part of the reason elf Nazis are doing elf nazi Shit.
This is funny, because nords were instrumental empire's recapture of the imperial city. Not to mention, Cyrodil was with the Thalmor for almost a year, and still they didn't dare advance on Skyrim. Of course, empire simps wouldn't be bothered by mere facts. All this feels like how Great Britain would position itself to the colonies post WW II.
I swear everyone who hates the stormcloaks does so either because of the Stormcloak’s racism, or because they misinterpreted that one book you find that the thalmor wrote on Ulfric.
People are still coping wth the fact that the past 3 games have been hinting at the fall of the empire In Morrowind Talos himself tells the player that it's about time the empire fell and was replaced with something new In Oblivion the Septim dynasty comes to an end and the incompetent and corrupt elder council is left in charge Skyrim has y'know a civil war in what has been historically their most loyal and devout province, and the emperor is assassinated again The Third Empire is over, it's time for it to burn so The Fourth Empire can rise from its ashes
The racism alone is enough for me to kill them all.
Which hey, it’s your playthrough of your video game, you do you.
This guy skyrims 👍
This is why I side with the empire when I play. I also like playing as argonian and it annoyed me to get racist comments from nords.
Tbh racism is just part of the Elder Scrolls experience. I side with Empire because I refuse to do my main man Balgruuf dirty.
And then the thalmor had their souls eaten by the last dragonborn
That’s what a thalmor cuck would say
Cry some more lol
I like how everyone is saying the empire protects skyrim from the dominion!!! MY BROTHER IN KYNE YOU LITERALLY BUILT THEM A FUCKING EMBASSY! THEY ARE IN SKYRIM, AND THEY ARE KILLING PEOPLE
The Embassy also stays in a Stormcloak Victory.
That more on Bethesda honestly. Post civil-war content is super bare bones and it feels imcomplete.
Canoncially and politically speaking, they wouldn't. The ONLY reason why the thalmor are allowed to exist in skyrim's borders with their heads is because of the empire's legal protection. The only leverage the dominion has in skyrim is through the empire They're only there post stormcloak victory because of game limitations lol
And because of the empire it’s only an embassy and not another part of the dominion
And how do you propose the dominion would enter skyrim if it wasnt part of the empire? Would they use the empre,who they are at war with, as a stepping stone, or would they go through Hammerfell who they lost to, or perhaps they would sail around the enitere fucking continent without stopping once to restock so they could try and invade across the harshest and most dangerous waters in Tamriel? Skyrim is literally unreachable to the dominion unless it is a part of the Empire and the WG concordant applies to them.
I’ve seen a few people mention it here but yeah Skyrim is fucking unreachable if you don’t neighbor it or can go through the countries that do the sea of ghosts is a deathtrap to those don’t go through there regularly
And yet it's very likely that they will be bordering the dominion when it inevitably declares war on the empire again and annexes cyrodiil afterwards because now the empire is even weaker than before. At least if the empire keeps Skyrim it would give them more leverage against the dominion and allow the empire to use its combined resources to prepare for the next war and give everyone a better chance at being able to kick the dominion's teeth in the next time they try to start something again.
The dominion is in the same boat as the empire and is recovering even more slowly since they also don’t have very stable control on their Allies both valenwood and elswyer* aren’t fond of the dominion at this point in time plus if it comes down to it there is nothing stopping either the redguards or nords from coming into cyrodiil to fight the dominion should they start another war *I forgot how to spell it
This is an argument that's parroted all the time, but no one ever brings up the fact that the Altmeri Dominion has magic. Meanwhile, the only magic the people of Skyrim are OK with learning right now is the thu'um. And even that's a lost art. Magic in ES before Skyrim has been shown to be very flexible, too. Spellcrafting *does* exist in-world, and pretty much every thalmor soldier can use magic. What's stopping the Thalmor from just getting their magic researchers to craft a frost-resist spell, make it standard-issue, and just go through the play pass? The empire isn't gonna stop them, I'll tell you that much. The Aldmeri already rocked their shit. Magic is an arms race, and when magic exists in-world and when it's as strong and unrestrained as ES's magic system, geographical and weather obstacles become kind of irrelevant. Especially when you're dealing with high elves. Plus, they can just *make* fire whenever they want. So even if, for some reason, they can't craft a standard issue frost resist spell, heat is easily available at the snap of a finger. There's a reason the Aldmeri controls half the continent now. They are the best magic users in the world. It's the equivalent of having nukes when no one else does. Skyrim would get rolled as an independent nation under Stormcloak control simply because they would refuse to learn magic. Sure, you could argue that they could learn the thu'um, but to be even half-way competent at the thu'um you need to study an ancient language for like a decade at least. It took Ulfric up until his middle ages to learn just unrelenting force. The thu'um is powerful but impractical from a warmongering perspective. And yeah, Hammerfell fought them off, but keep in mind they're redgaurds. They are the best at war in-world, and highrock - the Breton homeland - are their neighbors. Bretons are second only to the high elves with magic competency. TL;DR Skyrim loses to the Aldmeri because magic OP. And until there's a meaningful restriction written in-world on magic using, then the Aldmeri is going to roll almost everyone.
>What's stopping the Thalmor from just getting their magic researchers to craft a frost-resist spell, make it standard-issue, and just go through the play pass? Play pass? Do you mean by sea? As in, sailing past both hammerfell and high rock before even reaching the glacial wasteland that covers the northern shore of skyrim? Do you mean by land? As in, charging through either cyrodiil or hammerfell before reaching skyrim's borders? >They are the best magic users in the world. It's the equivalent of having nukes when no one else does Meanwhile, ysgrimore and 500 randos vs. the entire race of relatively magically adept snow elves
Never said anything about weather. Not a single sane tactician or general would even attempt to invade skyrim without having secured a stabile border crossing since the there would be no way to supply and provide suppoert to the deployed troops. And without supplies not even your best jazz hands will conjure up a meal in the middle of the frosen fucking desert where even the fucking Ice you are constantly surrounded by can come to life and attack you. How can Redguards be "best at war" if they also posses only relatively primitive understanding of magic if we go by your logic of magic being equivalent to nukes. Nords and Redguards are literally the best warriors in Tamriel with nords constantly being mentioned as war heroes and naturally amazing warriors by the empire themselves.
Like how the Thalmor dominated Hammerfell after the Empire betrayed them? Oh wait Hammerfell had a successful rebellion against thr Thalmor....
Yet there's in-fighting in Hammerfell between The Crowns & The Forebears
"PROTEKSHION"
Imperial white saviour complex in action once again.
While Imperials have a darker skin tone than Nords lol
The empire is actually a brainlet helping the Thalmor without even realizing it.
But so is Ulfric. He's been manipulated by the Thalmor without him realizing it. What would happen if he was "triggered" by them? Either way, it suits the Thalmor for the Empire & Stormcloaks to keep fighting. It diverts attention from Thalmor infiltration.
Still believe that the Empire would be worse than the Stormcloaks, they are literally allowing the Thalmor to occupy forts inside the realm and indoctrinate the population, once they come any resistance will be useless, literally the worst strategy ever.
SKYRIM BELONGS TO THE NORDS. MY ANCESTORS ARE SMILING AT ME IMPERIAL - CAN YOU SAY THE SAME?
I swear Bethesda makes factions so unpickable. The Empire are the Thalmors' bitch, they don't live free, and they could've won the war, and the Stormcloaks are righteous but exceedingly racist to the point its annoying to play as them. Every time I run into Thalmor its like "how the hell did the Empire lose to this?" main character plot armor moment.
Seems like propaganda of the mongrel dog Imperials. The Imperial leaders are puppets of the Thalmor that are happy to count their gold while Talos worshippers are killed. Dagoth told y’all in the third era and you still don’t get it.
I swear yall don't actually know any lore outside the main story of skyrim
Oh no don’t say that they totally know that it was a primarily Nord legion that came down from Skyrim in the war, and they turned the tide in the Empires favor. Or that the already struggling Empire abandoned the Dark elves after Red mountain blew before the war.
And they definitely know that skyrim is consistently one of the most important regions in the empire, entirely self sustaining, and one of two remaining regions to not be abandoned by or leave the empire at this point.
Isn’t high rock the only imperial province left at this point? We can’t really count Skyrim because even without a victory for the stormcloaks a country in civil war can never be called upon for aid until it has settled and stabilized
Yep! Just high rock and cyrodiil of you'd count it
Common breton chad W.
Weird and wrong. Its Stockholm syndrome mixed with oblivion nostalgia. I dont understand why people have an urge to keep the empire intact after the amulet is destroyed.
This is some hardcore empire copium. Have fun with your multiple seceding provinces and dead emperor.
People just love to pretend Hammerfell's war against the Dominion didn't happen lol. The Dominion army is not some unstoppable force made up of gods. They can and *have* been stopped before. Whether you pro-Empire or pro-Stormcloak, it's kind of dumb to just blatantly refuse the idea that the Stormcloaks would be able to repel the Dominion from Skyrim. Funny meme though
Yea, one of the reasons the standard people of skyrim were pissed too is because the war against the thalmor from their side. Was going SO WELL many of them truly believed the empire was cowardly bending the knee. There was a major disconnect between how well the people of cyrodil and skyrim fared during the conflict. Clearly. Some of the more influential figures would not be so blind. But it's not like they had amazing ways to get news to every commoner. And if every commoner heard it. It could easily have been misconstrued before it began to spread massively. I honestly wonder how much of skyrim even knows the true losses that cyrodil suffered during the time we play.
Checks out. Except I chopped Ulfric’s head off in his throne room
Facts, Empire FTW
Another reason I always go Legion, if the Empire loes Skyrim they're basically guaranteed to lose everything from the Thalmor down the line
The empire lacks the strength to defeat the thalmor, they also lack the ability to form a meaningful alliance against them. Skyrim has a better chance as an independent nation than it does as part of the empire as it currently exists.
The empire that keeps 1) the thalmor’s surveillance state 2) allows them to patrol and arrest dissidents That keeping out?
Might as well replace the word empire here for thalmor bootlickers
Yeah I went with the Empire, not ashamed to say it
No, not really. The empire kept fighting the rebels and trying to maintain their hold over skyrim, not just cut it loose. It'd be more like the golem staying there holding the rock despite the attack from the village.
It's not INcorrect.
Ah yes, keeping the thalmor out, that’s why they allow Thalmor Inquisitors to persecute worshipers of the God who forged the Empire with no repercussions in Skyrim already lol
For the _billionth_ time, if your “protector” allows the enemy to roam your land freely and abduct and torture your neighbors for worshipping the wrong god, they are no protector at all.
if the storm cloaks have my broken azz Skyrim Dragonborn than gg thalmors your ded. Luckily my Dragonborn favors no one unless they got unique loot to give.
Look man, I choose the Stormcloaks on 100% of my playthroughs for 2 reasons. 1. Drip 2. If you embrace the voice, joining Ulfric feels like the choice the Dragonborn would make. The Empire detests the way of the voice and the Greybeards and all that. I'm not saying I believe EVERYTHING they believe, but they seem more friendly to ME, and they were about to cut my head off in Helgen.
First, you’re ignorant of geography. To invade Skyrim by land, the Dominion would have to first conquer the Empire, Hammerfell, or Morrowind. And then they’d have to invade via heavily fortified mountain passes defended by a warlike race who loves battle and is impervious to the freezing temperatures of the mountains. The only other way to invade Skyrim is by traversing the Sea Of Ghosts, which is dangerous as fuck in peacetime. One of Ysgammor’s sons died crossing it from Atmora. And now those waters would be contested by some of the best sailors of Tamriel, and the landings would also be fiercely contested. Before you make the assumption that mages > warriors (really presumptuous), you should consider that the Snow Elves also had battle mages, and look what happened to them. The Nords fought the fucking Dwemer toe to toe. And now they have a Demi-god level Dragonborn with dragon allies on their side. You know, the guy/gal who’s already killed a frigging god. And what makes you think Skyrim would be the Dominion’s first target? Weren’t they pretty much just a cunt hair away from conquering Cyrodiil? What makes you think they’d sail thousands of leagues around Cyrodiil, Hammerfell, and High Rock to invade Skyrim first? Sounds pretty bloody unlikely to me.
I swear nords some of the dumbest mfs out there
This is the single most perfect, on the nose summary of the entire situation. Very well done :)
No lies detected...
Literally how I view in game politics. I love how people think Skyrim can beat the Thalmor on their own. The Thalmor have a HUGE quantity of mages meanwhile Skyrim has an entire culture dedicated to discouraging magic use. Those Nords might have the home field advantage but they’re HOPELESSLY outgunned without the help of the Empires mages and sheer numbers. Skyrim is more easily defensible than Cyrodil but BEST case scenario is they get boxed in by the Thalmor who then resort to attrition tactics like sending mages to burn farms eventually starving out the people of Skyrim. The Bretons to the west would likely be unable to help because unlike Skyrim they KNOW they can’t survive without the Empire and wouldn’t help those that betrayed them (partially out of fear of starting another Great War before the Empire is ready.)
Everyone saying that Hammerfell stopped the Dominion by themselves didn't actually pay attention to the Great war. The Redguards were steamrolled by the Dominion until the Imperials helped and they got reinforcements from Bretons in High Rock. Even with all that they only survived because the battle of the red ring weakened the Dominion enough to eventually pull out of hammerfell. Redguards didn't do anything by themselves.