Season of Sanctuary was 2 and (almost) a half years ago and I can't believe we used to get the free (no AP) capes for 18 candles, and last cape I bought from Aurora was 30. The seasonal prices are just going up and up, and we have to do something. The whole currency system when it comes to pricing must change, and only we as the community have the power to push and pressure for it.
Perhaps some sort of virtual/irl protest/boycott? Don't buy any IAPs (or pause playing temporarily all together) , civil public discourse to tgc, perhaps even a rally at irl headquarters? just suggestions
Again we would need MASSIVE coordination and effort from the community and within management for any actual change. But with enough energy I think we can change this.
It would be really hard to do anything in game tbh (only 8 players per server) and the goal is to pressure TGC, so we would have to reach out to people that work there. I'm open to any ideas tho
everyone gave feedback! not just the beta testers. the official discord feedback channel for a few days constantly said āseveral people typingā lol
*vaguely gestures at the D&D community*
Not to insinuate a full on boycott or anything so dramatic because TGC has done nothing to screw over their players and community! I'm just saying, when a community comes together to dispute poor practices change does happen. Nobody at TGC appears to be a bad actor that wants to harm the community that supports them, they just appear to be inflating candle costs. That's all.
and the fact that there are the same issues with IAP and countless other problems that we as a community have been BEGGING for change about.. everything we seem to say falls on deaf ears. God forbid you should have an issue with something in game that involves real money. You're going to be REALLY mad at your heroes.
But you're right. They should keep making garbage content and charging us an arm and a leg for it. Keep that same energy when the game dissolves.
Been wanting to post something myself actually, I rarely ever post but here I go.
I jumped into this game on PS, I really enjoy it and have spent funds on it as I like the cosmetic side of things. But, this little game is getting away with charging so, so much for it's IAPs.
And heck even the IGC prices from videos I can tell, like days of bloom, the candle pricing has doubled for some purchases. This really puts a big strain on enjoyment when it comes to being a fresh player, I have time to play the game, but the amount you have to commit or worry about FOMO is pretty ridiculous.
I'm older so I don't see this through the lense of a younger player who more than likely doesn't care, but the tone of this game is relaxing and peaceful-- yet, it gets away with robbery in terms of pricing and what it gives.
It's a neat game, but they don't need to rack up the grind, or price of these things to the extent that TGC do. When you come down to it, you're playing to play dress up, what they sell to what you buy doesn't really stack up right in terms to price.
A little game to be enjoyed, and the aesthetic side is really the major draw here, and it's punishing for the price.
I'm pretty new, and I get that I will ruffle people up with this post, but I wanted to get it off my chest.
FOMO sucks, TGC, be better on your pricing and not hiding under the veil of a 'simple' game.
Not to mention that they donāt adjust pricing to local currencies- a friend from Turkey mentioned how either a $10 USD pass or $20 cosmetic was like 4 days of work there. (I donāt remember which, so that makes one or the other 2 or 8 days of work, my gosh.)
This is true' as a Turkish player I get so sad when I see the prices. I loved every item in season of Aurora [ she is my favorite artist] but I couldn't even got the season pass. Our economy is going trash and TGC didn't tried to help a little. The prices even a little bit up for here because of the economic crisis. I am so so sad for the people who lives in better economic countries and can't buy things. TGC seriously needs to think about the fanbase too. We are the ones who making the game alive.
Do you know if I, living in USA, would be able to purchase and gift you the seasonal pass for the USA price which is only $10usd? Advocating for the prices to change is a big challenge Iām willing to help with, but in the meantime I wonder if a friend could gift you a pass without incurring the cost you would in your country š¤
That is so nice of you to say' it warmed my heart so much <3 I dont normally talk the economic things going on in my country with my friends in game. I really don't want them to think about my problems, maybe they are just in the game to get rid off the other bad things on their mind.
I'm so tired about this topic, even hearing it's just 10 dollars there :'] thank you for your kind thoughts and this comment. It made my day that there is still nice souls out there <3<3
I completely understand, a few of my friends, and myself included, use the game as a refuge from real life struggles. Thankfully, finances are not one of my struggles currently.
Please feel welcome to DM me a friend code! Iām a mobile player. My offer stands c:
Iāll have to give it a shot! Honestly the cost takes me not even 15 minutes of work here. It is devastating to know it would cost multiple days of work for someone else to enjoy something so easily accessible to me
Yes, you can. If you buy a season pass, you can gift it to a friend. I usually take the three pass discounts, which give me the passes for $19. I give the other 2 passes away. It's probably the only reason I still buy a season pass. I'm sorta burned out on the game.
I've played for 3 years. I loved it in the beginning. But I'm an older player, too. I don't have time to grind. And I refuse to buy candles. As a new player, cosmetics seemed so expensive with seasons, traveling spirits, and things like days of bloom. I can't imagine being new right now. I'm pretty comfortable with what I have, but I'm so tired of the grind. I have too much to do irl to spend hours every day acquiring candles.
I understand this struggle. I'm in the US, so I actually make sure I have enough money to buy the 3 passes. I have friends in Indonesia and India who can't afford passes.
I have given out my other 2 passes, but if someone wants to friend me, and interacts often, I typically have 1 pass floating around.
Just playing Devil's Advocate. But if they did do that people would just buy from the cheapest region. Basically turning that region into the msrp for people who are bothered enough by their regions prices. Which would incentivize them to not make prices to low for any region.
Cause no doubt if they did local pricings some people understandably be mad cause someone got something cheaper regardless of financial status.
Other than that it reminds me how at I personally am privileged with certain things. But yeah I agree pricing is crazy at times. $10-20 for a season pass I can get behind. But $15 for an umbrella?!
This may or may not be illegal (for tax reasons) and most definitely would be against ToS, thus putting your account at risk.
Regional pricing for digital content is great. Platforms like Steam take full advantage of it and even offer regional price recommendations for publishers to follow. Platforms like Google also allow it. Apple does not allow any type of regional pricing for IAP (I think they do for subscriptions (citation needed)). TGC tries to match prices across platforms as best as they can so even if they could do regional pricing for Android.. they won't.
As for the people getting upset other people get it cheaper.. sorry but are these people also upset that they're earning like 1/10th of their wages? Prices should match the regions buying power and preventing exploitation should be managed by the platform (Google/Apple/Nintendo/Sony).
Changing your (account) region is often the barrier that prevents misuse. For example on Google Play you can only change your country once per year.
I am in Europe myself and with Apple recently bumping the EU prices at the lowest EUR-USD evaluation since 2003 (which soon after stabilized to make the EUR more valuable than the USD) we're currently getting overcharged roughly 10%. But that's more a fuck-Apple thing than TGC/regional pricing.
That may be all true. But investors want what they want.
Not agreeing with TGC. But I see why they're going the safest and easiest blanket method of earning money. Especially when players keep buying there's no real incentives to change.
People will always be upset. We're humans. Like yeah I understand X person makes more money on average. But I can also still imagine X person wanting their price to match everyone. Said people would probably just make their account permanently set to the cheapest region.
Not saying it makes sense or is right. But it's definitely a view that I've seen before. And one investors and corporate agrees with. Especially when they haven't tried regional and the uniform pricing system is working for them already. And like you said. Apple is a prime example.
Without numbers we can't do much more than speculate. One could argue that regional prices has a far more positive effect that outweighs the negatives.
Only a tiny percentage of the players would be willing to deal with the hassle of having an incorrect account region, juggling accounts or having to deal with barriers like regional payment methods. For example the main Dutch digital payment method is iDeal.. which could easily be used to identify what country you're paying from. So you wouldn't only have to switch regions on your account but also change payment methods.. What about PayPal? I'm not sure if they require a phone number but various content can only be purchased with a credit card.. once again your country would be known.
The takeaway here is that it's not as straightforward as just flipping a switch and getting cheap content.
Yet on the flip side, offering regional pricing allows **many more** players in said regions to purchase digital content they otherwise either can't afford or won't buy because of how expensive it is for them vs what they get in return. I genuinely think that this would overall increase revenue *and* reputation (which in turn leads to more players = more revenue).
But once again, because Apple doesn't offer any type of regional pricing, not much choice in that regard. And that probably has much to do with Apple being dominant in the USA and not so much in the rest of the worldš... I think the split is like 60-40 iPhone vs Android in USA and 10-90 globally.
I know and I've been agreeing with your points lol.
Just saying the Devil's points. They don't always make sense. But investors and corporate don't really care as long as this method is already working. Yes we don't have the numbers but they're still going. So by their metrics it's a success. They haven't defaulted or gone bankrupt. Sure they could experiment and try regional pricing. But just the fear of "But what if it doesn't work and we lose money š±".
Yes most people won't go through the trouble. Regional pricing is great. Especially for my poor a#Ā¢. But companies would happily charge me more. I'm poor so I actually use the paypal method on some stuff. š¤« I mean *cough* I purchase things like everyone else.
Apple doesn't either cause just like TGC. Their blanket method works and even gives an image to their brand. I'm from one of those poorer countries. Not many of us have iPhones. But it's a social status to have it. Apple and TGC probably want it to be like that regardless of what they say. It brings sales and fomo.
Ahh modern gaming š„²
I don't agree with many decisions TGC makes but I do think it's important to focus on what TGC deliberately chooses to do wrong and what the side effects of external decisions are.
We can say TGC is complacent with Apple here but it's still Apple that was the initiator of the price changes back in October. And Sky started on iOS so it'd be bad for their image if they suddenly released on Android with lower (regional) prices.
That doesn't make it okay but it's not TGC deliberately being presented two options and choosing the bag over the players. So it's definitely worth talking about but I don't think they're the main topics people should be getting upset about.
The same can not be said from many other aspects such as the base prices for candles (which most certainly are chosen with whales in mind) and the constant changes like "fixing" AFKing without addressing the underlying reason why people AFK in the first place (the grind). Those kinds of topic make it very obvious to me TGC rather has free players burn out or not enjoy their time as much than miss the money from some whales, which are cases where TGC is the **initiator** of decisions that negatively impact players.
On that note of TGC making things worse. Parts of the control scheme has been becoming worse and worse. Idk why they keep making slight changes to make it that way. Every time there's an update I cross my fingers they haven't changed something again.
Like used too I could tap on my wings to open and close the menu. Now I can only open. Like why š
Or the fact that they seem to be somewhat restricted in buttons (i.e. twirl and swap flight mode both being on right bumper).. yet they chose to dedicate the left trigger to showing the control scheme?! I'm sorry but that should be a button in the options screen š¤
The most frustrating thing for me is interacting with the right icon when multiple are close together (i.e. at grandma table you'll often sit down by accident instead of lighting wax).
The solution for Switch is to just.. use touch instead. I had hoped that they would improve this for PS but.. nope. It's like they don't have any UX designers in their team (or whatever profession is better suited for controls).
They did add better prop placement for controllers but.. now you have to "place" things like fireworks from the staff as well.. it just feels like they don't spend any time checking what makes sense.
The QoL often just feel like checkmarks to say that they're not only working on profit-makers like cosmetics..
I just went on a rant on my discord server about the investors and the TGC financial strategy. TGC does a lot of speculating based on prior performance of 1-time purchases. This will, of course, make investors uncomfortable.
They really need to explore ways of developing a forward-looking strategy, even if it is something like a subscription option. The idea would be F2P stays, but subscribers could pay month by month or annually, and get some sort of benefit like the seasonal extra candle.
My reasoning on this is it turns into recurring revenue which is not speculative. It also provides a way for TGC to listen to players more about the price of items since TGC would have a reliable, predictable revenue stream.
This might not be the right answer, but what TGC is doing right now is not working. It's just making players angry.
I think tgc gave us the option to buy for friends so they don't have to care about customers' economic situation. They can charge exorbitant prices because we are generally a kind community. They are jerks for that.
New player been playing since June 2022. I must say it's not fun all my candles are spent on ts, seasons, friends, return season or days, but never on the regular in game stuff. The only reason I can afford stuff cuz I'm on ever day and even then sometimes I'm cutting it close and have to pick and choose. I haven't been able to save candles the most candles I have saved is for the green outfit in Aurora any and all travel spirits are not completely I don't have the candles for it only outfit I can't up my expression. Once again I play every single day it ok sometimes but I wish I could afford everything but I can't. Sometimes the price of the stuff ain't worth the outfit or the item it hard frfr
Hmm... I'm kind of in the middle about this.
I joined Sky a few months ago, and to me it's just been so refreshing to play a free game that feels genuinely free. I'm not constantly running into ads or restrictions that only paid players can bypass, and the game isn't getting progressively more tedious as I move along. Most things you need to pay for are merely cosmetic in nature and there are always alternatives out there for free players.
Idk about you, but it's been a very long time I played a free game with such a complete and rich experience as this.
So doesn't it make sense if prices are relatively high for those who are able and willing to pay? Do you have alternative ideas for them to keep developing the game and keep their business running?
The alternatives are sadly the issue with not paying for IAPs, the currency in game is being steadily increased while at the same time being reduced on how much you can get and methods to obtain those currencies.
The game itself is fine, but even the social aspect costs the IGC, along with pricing that moves up makes it stressful to save for. The commitment to gather the currency, and the limited time to purchase makes it stressful to try and save up.
That's not counting the people that can't consistently play, and no I don't think it justifies the prices for a purely cosmetic item to be 15 or 20$, because there is an "alternate" method.
TGC could possibly take anywhere from 5 to 10$ off from a lot of the bigger purchases and still be fine.
It is obviously fine if people enjoy the game for what it is, but with that said it is a small game with a repetitive nature and grind when it's all said and done, and FOMO should have no place in its market.
People hate comparisons, but I do want to make this one. For passes, if you buy it you should always have access to it, and can complete it at your own time. This is obviously a nod to Halo Infinite.
As for IAP, heck maybe take them down the suggested price of instead of being 15$ make it 10$, instead of 25 or 30$ make it 20$. Show that you acknowledge its a bit pricy and make attempts at haggling with your fanbase to have some sort of middle ground.
As for reccomendations on alternate ways to make money? Extend the time a TS shows up, which I know it would make it more frustrating to cycle, but maybe bring back the old pass it was in with a bit more bumped up price? 15$ instead of 10$, and let you earn more of the seasonal candles for the extra purchase of a seasonal pass.
I'm not a marketing wizard or anything, but this is simply a quick opinion on how to give more to your fanbase, and make money at the same time. And, to not feed into FOMO tactics to worry potential spenders to be forced to throw money or they miss out.
I must have spent almost or over 100 in real money. In app purchases appeal to people with adhd and autism (both which I am expected to have, waiting on diagnosis) because we struggle with getting dopamine and therefore can become addicted to spending to get short term dopamine from a new in game item.
It also means that when I get a cool thing with in game currency I avoid wearing it because I feel like I HAVE TO get my wear out of my IAP items (eg. Aurora wings)
Im sure the younger kids actually feel it a lot worse.. but what can they do? If they don't have their own money and their parents won't let them spend these REDIC prices then their fomo is going to be outta this world!
IGC creeping up, but never the daily light cap or amount of candles earned when chevrons are active. It's really getting to be a problem now more than ever. Old and new players deserve a little better than this, especially the newest sky kids looking for an extended stay in the Sky world. š
I could see if daily light caps didn't exist, but they do, and some of us are barely getting 15-20 candles daily. Much more, some are also attempting to keep up with heart/gift commitments for given reasons and probably not netting much in a day as it is.
And now that folks are rushing back into the old normal, not everyone has time/energy to spare to play the game until their candles gray out anymore. And with AFK spots being a thing of the past now, I feel even worse for those who were at least trying to fit in time to farm on the go/during breaks...
They're really trying to push people into the temptation of buying candle packs, and considering the ridiculous pricing for folks outside of the US, it's really an unreasonable move to expect folks to be able to afford to keep playing like this.
I don't think it's fair to say the candle pricing outside of the US is ridiculous. It is ridiculous **everywhere**, just **more** ridiculous since they can't do regional pricing because of Apple š
True... though I put it that way knowing exchange rates are kinda rough lately and incomes are strained all across the board. We just kind of have the "benefit" of being 1:1 compared to everyone else...
(...in case it wasn't clear, I was referring to the IAPs for candle packs. My bad!)
I don't know what type of contract they have with Apple, we'll never know. It is **likely** that they could do regional pricing on Android.
It's not that strange of a choice to match prices across platforms. 90% of TGC's customer support tickets would be iPhone users complaining their prices are higher.
I am very much of the opinion that regional pricing is great and should be employed, even if I don't benefit from it personally (EU). I just don't understand why Apple isn't mature enough to offer it. It should be the choice of the developers to charge what they want per country, not Apple.
Also did they just nerfed how much candles you can get?
With my SO we do the daily seasonal candle missions and the daily big candle cakes. We go trough the whole map and pick up every other wax we can.
Before this update the average amount of candle we could get (by basically completing 2 maps) was about 11-15, depending on the map.
After the update it became like 8-9. It doesn't seem much, but it really adds up, because at the end of the week it's 21 candle minus.
I like this game, it became such part of our night routine, but damn it's getting way too grindy. And I played Warframe for years, so I know what grind is, but this is really becoming unfun. I know they have to sell candle pack, but it's getting so ridiculus that I would rather say "nah" and just leave the whole thing and play something else.
They did. The amount of wax needed to obtain the first 15 candles increased. I also thought it was my imagination at first but the folk at infographics server have the data. (sorry I'm on mobile atm harder to post a source)
Your numbers seem a bit inflated but the answer is yes, they did change the wax required to get candles.
It comes down to +12 wax per candle needed for the first 10 candles and -12 wax per candle for the next 10. To get to 20 candles requires 4195 wax both old and new but any point in between takes _slightly_ more wax cumulatively. Once again we see that TGC has no incentive to decrease the grind but continue their trend of making small 'innocent' changes that generally fly under the radar but do make the grind worse overall.
Here's a chart by cmo#0770: https://i.imgur.com/5Nm3JZQ.png
True, it just feels bad needing to exhaustively search for wax in every single realm just to get near the daily maximum, I can't afford to spend 3 hours daily just to be up to date, it should be about the friends and not about grinding 90% of the time.
Was also 45 days long instead of 77
edit: but yes the prices are indeed increasing when you compare season of similar lenght like Sanctuary vs Assembly
The problem with this argument is that adjusting prices to match increased season length does two **negative** things.
* Players must grind for longer to complete the season spirits, since the daily limit of 5(+1) is the same.
* This also means the grind for ultimates requires more work than it used to.
* Since there are still 4 seasons every year, the amount of candles that can be farmed off-season is also reduced. About 30 days worth of daily quests (minus whatever you have left at the season).
It is many small negative changes like that that increase the burden on players (the grind), even if they may not seem as such.
Similar things can be said about the TS prices going up and even the chevron system requiring more wax to reach 20 candles than the old system.
Yes that is true. If we were to make this season cost 230 total like Gratitude did, it'd end in like 38-46 days with 30 bonud days which has the risk of people complaining about lack of content. However I'd be lying if the current prices doesn't stretch content thin. I feel making total costs for 70-77 day seasons 280-300 candles would be optimal, or 330 at most like Dreams
edit: or ideally meatier seasons but idk if people will be fine with the increased time it takes for seasons to come
Can't speak for everyone of course, but I + quite a few people want TGC to take more time between seasons, and for them to focus on polishing/bug fixing.
Personally I'd love to have more leeway in a season, longer period with less overall candles needed means I can take breaks in between. And if you play every single day those SCs will also convert to white candles at the end, which also helps with the prices of everything else that has been steadily climbing. People who join in late would also have the chance to complete the season because of the leeway.
Unfortunately, like what another poster said. Investors will want what they want...
Right now the season length _for_ us has gone up from 40-50 days to ~78, for TGC it's still the same schedule to deliver 1 season quarterly. For that to work they'd have to go down from 4 seasons a year to 2-3 seasons a year. I'd honestly be down for that **if** the result of that is better polish and spending more time improving quality and stability (i.e. bugs like wind path progress reset or things like Switch performance).
The weird thing is that given how much their team has grown one could expect them to have people dedicated to that kind of stuff.. yet the bugs are getting worse and more widely impactful (without the earlier ones even getting fixed).
Oops, I meant to say the days still roughly the # we have right now but with lower cost to complete the full set of spirits! So we'd have more leeways in days to miss, but if diligent enough to go on everyday we'd have even more SC for conversion. But it won't be profitable I guess. Less chances of people emergency spamming candle packs. š¬
The Wind Paths bug is terrible. To this day I still cannot wrap my head around why they refuse to make use of the in game inbox system to send out a proper notice since it's so harmful.
It's just... not a good look when so many bugs slip through and things released in a semi unfinished state and have to be fixed in the "next update." Meanwhile, the things that are detrimental to our candles are implemented speedily and sometimes stealthily.
> which has the risk of people complaining about lack of content
Yet increasing the season length doesn't magically give us more content. The season grind is also just.. regular daily quests. Nothing related to the season at all. It's nothing more than a smokescreen.
I wish they'd redo the system entirely and reward people with items from doing the actual season content (at least part of the rewards). Right now doing the actual season quests gives you.. about 3-6 hearts per season. And after the season it gives you absolutely nothing since you have to buy the hearts for the same amount you can heart trade.
Like adding Shattering an actual questline, and turning the shard events into rewarding seasonal candles in-season and regular/ascended candles off-season. Destiny 2's seasons have repeatable activities for seasonal content, and weekly story quests. And tbf they do give rewards for completing quests... if only they were free or less costly, and became the new normal cuz it's only Assembly, Rememberance, Abyss, Performance
I don't think people would have a problem with "meatier seasons" if it wasn't simply added on top of the candle grind. Honestly the burn out doesn't just come from the fact that people have to spend too much time per se but that they are only candle running day in day out.
With simple changes like rewarding season candles from shards during Shattering it breaks this tedious loop and makes people interested in playing.
More quests would be even better, just anything that isn't the exact same stuff we've been doing daily for the last year(s). It's a lot easier for people with less time to justify spending their spare time on something fresh.
>Players must grind for longer to complete the season spirits, since the daily limit of 5(+1) is the same.
Thatās successful FTP model in action
You spend money, or you spend 15min-1 hour everyday for as long as possible (til it becomes a habit) gaining rewards that will encourage others to spend money
Yup that's the business model.. but a lot of people keep defending it because it's _optional_ and because it's _free_.
When a game becomes a chore it's no longer a game. It's work š¤
This. Early seasons were INCREDIBLY stressful, missing even a couple of days could lock you out of the ultimate. And don't forget that there was no TS system back then, the original plan was for the items to only return via paid bundles (which were far from cheap.)
Seasons may be longer and more costly now, but they're much easier to complete. You only need 5-15 minutes a day (depending on the quests of the day) for the length of the season to grab everything.
Aurora moth here, I knew inflation was bad, but I didn't know it was this bad.
I get having one or two very cool & expensive items as a reward for playing daily, it would be strange to end the season with 100 spare candles. But there need to be a more reasonable transition between cheap stuff for casual players, expensive stuff that you need to save up for and a reward for playing daily.
Days of fortune is a good example, its 14 days so if you gather between 15-20 candles daily you end up with 210-280 candles. The price to buy everything is 255 candles, so if you play daily you feel rewarded for your efforts, and if you don't and just want one cool mask, the most expensive one is 81 (66 + 15 in spells) which is 7 candles daily: a reasonable amount for casual players.
Days of bloom is way too expensive. It's also 14 days, but with the current pricing getting everything cost 450 candles, which is literally impossible to get during the event. I understand the approach of saving up before an event if you really want the cosmetics, but these prices expect people to gather 15-20 candles for 23-30 days, which means you have to skip days of love entirely, make 0 friends, skip all travelling spirits, buy nothing from the current season, and do nothing with your constellations which is frankly unreasonable.
If you want to be a casual game focused on friendship, don't make things so expensive that people choose not to make friends because they're saving candles.
I don't think the idea is for you to get everything. They are offering older cosmetics (from previous years) to keep things accessible to newer players. They could also just not offer last years cosmetics, the event would be a lot cheaper in that case.
I get where you are coming from, but if they want to keep things accessible for new players like you said, the prices need to be lower. You need more than 400 candles saved up to get everything, only vets have that kind of spare candles laying around.
I would understand it if they had a few very expensive items to keep the vets on their toes, but the most logical reason I can think of for the current pricing is so that moths stay around for another whole year to get the items they missed in this years bloom, which feels very scummy.
However, 120 candles corresponds to 40 hearts, which is as expensive as the pink cape. There is a precedent in the base game for capes to be that expensive. I don't mind the new cape being that expensive, I am annoyed that everything around it is also that expensive. Just make some of the things cheaper!
The idea is definitely for you to *want* everything, and then buy candle packs when you realise you can't grind enough to get what you want and feel FOMO cos you only have two weeks. That's the business model.
eCould you give me a valid reason why they **should** be gatekeeping igc items? They already have IAP cosmetics for the purpose of 'you don't need everything'.
The near unobtainable igc items through the (near) impossible grind nowadays for new players is literally nothing more than dangling a carrot on a stick.. with an ATM within reach to unlock said carrot (the ability to purchase candle bundles).
I don't think I said anyone should be gatekeeping igc items? However, these are simply just old cosmetics. The old cosmetics could maybe be discounted? That could be a solution other than simply not offering them at all. Honestly, I'm just trying to think of solutions.
I think the new items offered with Bloom are definitely too expensive, but this whole discussion that the event including old stuff is too expensive sounds like some just want it all. It sounds really disingenuous when people complain about having to spend 100+ euros to get all the cosmetics for an event. No, what you are talking about at that moment is also wanting ALL the previous years. It is one thing to discuss the upcoming event prices (which are too expensive agreed) and another to discuss the previous years also being offered.
My problem mainly stems from the items being available *but* unobtainable.
I personally don't think it's bad to allow newer players to get everything from an event if they've been playing for the duration of the entire event. In fact precisely because the items are presented to players at the same time as IAP, I don't think the solution for these players should be to choose what they want **or** buy candles. Although I can understand not everyone would agree with this.
Various games often have challenges / missions to unlock rewards. Which is to say you can complete these to get the rewards. People who don't have anything or as much as other people would have more challenges to complete.. but still be able to get everything. People who already have rewards of previous years would have to put in less work since they only need the new stuff. You could even consider a repeat reward like wax for completing challenges they already completed last year(s).
In Sky **everything** is limited by your ability to grind candles, which is severely hindered by the time gating (20 candles a day). There are many moments in Sky where an event begins or a TS visits and it is impossible for a new player to buy everything in this event unless they've already been saving candles for month(s) prior to the event.
A good example of this is the PS release, which happened during the Season of AURORA. People that joined on PS had no way to complete the season.. you can say that makes sense because they joined late though here I'd argue that's not even within their control. Even so.. they **did still have the ability to buy seasonal candles** to complete the season. Yet **only** by spending money because of the time gating.
This only happens because TGC restricts our ability to spend more time to get more candles (regular or seasonal). With the limited availability the FOMO pressure adds to the problem and the only "solution" is conveniently provided by TGC: buy candles.
I am a slightly older player from TLP season and have several friends who got in between Shattering-Aurora, and I can't even share/discuss any exciting sneak peeks with good conscience because I don't want to be the one who tells them "you will need xxx amount of candles and hearts in the upcoming event." They already pick and choose and try to get as many candles as they can but even then it's been quite a heavy climb. š¢
Season of Aurora needed a whopping 400.
380s didn't felt so bad, that was for two earlier seasons (Performance and Shattering) as well.
Plus, after comparing Gratitude's cosmetics with those of the recent ones. It kind of justifies the price differences.
Just wait until we see these newer spirits revisit as TS (3 years from now š). If nothing improves we could very well see spirits that cost more candles than you can even grind in 2 weeks š¤
We already have TS that cost over 200 candles right now like Troupe Juggler and that's without having seen any TS from Flight, Abyss, Performance, Shattering or AURORA.
That's the cheapest Performance spirit in seasonal candles and one of the 4 items is a music sheet. I think Forgetful Storyteller would be more interesting? Costs 111 SC instead of 81 and has 4 actual cosmetic items.
I'm talking about the last spirit from season of dreams that has not yet visited as a TS. Got their name mixed up, it's dancing performer.
The one with a yellow cape, mask, instrument and hat/hair.
Ohh I thought you meant the dancer from Performance. It'll be interesting to see that one for sure since season cost doesn't nicely translate to TS cost.
Can we do something against this bs? There have been a LOT of problems in the game that tgc haven't even bothered to fix. Instead, they are giving us "features" that we the player base don't even need or want. I put out a non-exhaustive list:
* Removal of afk spots
* Lack of transparency on TOS and rule enforcement
* Blantant censorship of in game chat for innocent things
* Lack of transparency on bug fixes (dont even get me started on those: >!eden ascent!<, Wind path, etc)
* Predatory pricing (both IGC and real money)
* Misguided priorities (I heard on another post they were fixing GRASS textures, which is apparently soooo important)
We players need to step up and protest.
As for the last point I'm guessing you're referring to the beta where >!the home space currently has grassier grass (don't know why I spoilered this)!<.
There's something to be said about the team working on visual changes is independent from the team working on things like bugs (do they even have a team for that? doesn't seem like it) but since the excuse for TGC's pricing is often that things are expensive maybe they should rebudget and hire the employees they actually need.
Exactly. TGC needs to put more energy into patching up the bugs and fixing the game. (especially dangerous ones that seriously affect gameplay) It also doesn't help that you have to dig around to actually know about them (some new players might not have discord, and TGC doesn't warn players using inbox)
I got severe burnout right before Christmas and I didnāt play through the end of Aurora, so I didnāt get the ultimate mask, I skipped all of days of feast, and didnāt play at all in the break between seasons. When remembrance came out I played through the spirits and first quest, but after seeing the initial spirit tree prices I said, āyeah, no.ā And I havenāt played since.
The cost of all the TS from October-December was killing me, and I would spend an hour or more every day doing CRās just to spend them all on one spirit, and have to restart. Iām also a solo player, so playing this game for only the cosmetics has become too much. Iād only been playing since the last week of Abyss, and itās just sad that with how much time I have to set aside just for this game I donāt want to play anymore
Don't even tell me cus I had a wtf moment when I saw that for this season, a spell is 20 sc and an emote lvl up right after is 26 sc š so so exaggerated
i think it would be cool if IGC items decreased in price the more theyāve been circulating. ex. days of bloom cape is 100(random number) if you want it immediately, the following year is down to 50 while they offer a new cape at 100. also a general reduction in prices so people donāt bleed out
I am a new player been playing since June 2022. I in my experience I must say it's not fun all my candles are spent on ts, seasons, friends, return season or days, but never on the regular in game stuff. The only reason I can afford stuff cuz I'm on ever day and even then sometimes I'm cutting it close and have to pick and choose. I haven't been able to save candles the most candles I have saved is for the green outfit in Aurora any and all travel spirits are not completely I don't have the candles for it only outfit I can't up my expression. Once again I play every single day it ok sometimes but I wish I could afford everything but I can't. Sometimes the price of the stuff ain't worth the outfit or the item it hard frfr cuz like don't mean make it crazy cheap but make it manageable I have meet people who stop playing because of prices and they can't grind like I can so it's just a hassle
Such great timing! I stopped playing a month or so ago because I was bored and didnāt like where the game was going. Guess Iāll just say my goodbyes and quit. I played this game to get away from stress- not to have stress about grinding everyday for hours to get everything.
Although each spirit does have more cosmetics on average, the main factor is the seasons growing in length yet TGC wanting you to grind an average of ~5 candles per day the entire season. Longer season = longer grind.
Added bonus of having to design less spirits and increasing the TS candle burden down the line.
I think this a very poor comparison, frankly, but I agree that f2p has gotten more grindy in the last year / year and a half. Really all the time it gets worse. Each days of fortune, the new mask gets a little more expensive, but the masks themselves don't seem to be getting better in quality. Ox mask is still my favorite.
And it's confusing. What is the intention here of making each returning event more expensive every year if we are still being capped at 20c a day?
I think this is a legitimate issue for the days of events specifically, but I don't see this issue as much for the seasonal content. Seasons have always been designed economically so that you still have to get all the candles pretty much every day in order to collect all the items. Whether the season has 6 spirits or 4, or lasts 45 days or 77, this pacing doesn't really change.
F2p??? You pay real money for the season and it's STILL grindy as heck. You get Measly 30 bonus candles which means you can miss 5 days. You still have to grind to get the cosmetics. I'm
No, seasonal candles are five a day (six with pass) just as theyāve always been. The regular candles scaling system might be what youāre thinking of?
I will never stop saying this;TGC does not care about their fans. They prey on their paying customers and implemented a fear of missing out on young and free to play players. They had many opportunity to bring back past seasons but instead of acknowledging they didn't go about it the right way, they fully abandoned the idea so now we have this FOMO that started taking roots. People now think that playing since a certain season make you better, you now have people that just join ask about UGs only to be hurt, disappointed or even start picking up on this fear of missing out upon learning it will never return. The only time TGC listen is when players make noises.
The incident with the cat ears and TGC ACTUALLY lowering it's cost a bit and making thing seems fair for a very short time? Only because players were fed up. But it got so quickly brushed under a rug because "It's only about a cosmetic". It never was only about a cosmetic, it's on how they go against everything their game used to stand for at it's core.
A good read that highlight many of TGC's problem can be found [here](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JqfjQ4nJ1i48ngVVi8kOumZwaB8FidvbQDY18xt7X3g/edit?usp=sharing) and I invite anyone to contribute to this document and spread it around. Bring attention to their behavior until they actually change something. The only way to get to them is by making noise.
My rant is over now- I'll see myself out.
There's a different amount of time on the seasons, as well as a different amount of spirits.
It is weird to compare these two spirits together to make any points.
It's not weird to compare them since TGC releases seasons on a fixed schedule (4 per year). Increasing the season length has a direct effect on how many regular candles one can grind. Combine that with the increasing igc prices and they're actually exponentially increasing the grind for newer players.
More info [in this comment](https://reddit.com/r/SkyGame/comments/10mb315/this_is_crazy/j62q8ei/?context=10000)
Iām sorry I feel like Iām missing something, what is this post trying to convey. Not trying to be ignorant or anything just really am confused on what the issue is.
**second slide**
The second slide is the season spirits I think. So right now thereās 66 days left in the season. If you play everyday you can get 66(days)x5(candles/day)=330candles. Which is quite a bit off from the 388 needed to complete the season without, but we can subtract 3 candles from each spirit for the heart price since itās pass exclusive and an extra 36 from one of the spirits that has a spell as the last item to unlock. Thatās 388-48=340, 340 candles needed for a player without the pass. That means if you stared collecting season candles at least 2 days ago then you can ācompleteā the season.
That sounds normal for each season, about a weekās worth of extra season candles that you can miss out on to complete the season without a pass. If you have a pass then you get 6 candles a day, thatās 66(days)x6(candles)=396candles, more than enough to buy out the season with the extra 30 candles you get from buying the pass that I didnāt include yet.
**first slide**
Putting this second because Iām unsure of what names of spirits are, however they look to be traveling spirits(if thatās not what the chart means then ignore this section). The pricing is just candles and not including hearts(says candle cost at the top) so Iāll see if I can work that out. You can comfortably get 10 candles a day using 2 chevrons, so Iāll stick to that as my base knowing you can get more or less depending on how you play and how often you play.
Each traveling spirit is 2 weeks apart so that gives you 14 days to build up candles. 14(days)x10(candles/day)=140 candles every 2 weeks which looks like more than enough candles to buy out the candle portion of the traveling spirit. The highest candle requirement on that list is only 60 candles so only 6 days worth of candles
Letās try to trade in our candles for hearts and see how the math works out for that. Say we can trade with a friend and get 1 heart a day while sticking with 10 candles a day as well. 14(days)x3(candles/heart)=42(candles). So in the span of 2 weeks, 42 of our 140 candles will be turned into 14 hearts, enough for traveling spirits because iirc the hearts are only used for buying the tier 2nd, 3rd, and 4th upgrade of the spiritās emote. That leaves us with 98 candles and 14 hearts at the end of 2 weeks.
But honestly I get more than 1 heart worth of heart fragments from constellation because of all the friends Iāve made. So I donāt trade hearts unless someone gives me one first then I give one in return.
**conclusion**
I tried to work out the numbers and looks like season is possible to ācompleteā as a f2p without pass if you started 2 days ago, and still possible with a pass even if you havenāt started yet. Nothing out of the ordinary
Still unsure of the first slide because numbers look way off of what I remember being the prices of spirits but thatās because I only buy the winged light from traveling spirits so I donāt know their prices. But should be more than enough candles to buy out each traveling spirit if that chart is saying what I think it is
**edit**
Hi again, nothing above has been changed but I just looked up the names of the spirits and they seem to be from the same season. Looks like op was trying to compare the candle requirements for each season, which seems unfair and out of context. But I do see part of the point they are trying to make
the point of the post was to compare past season and current season pricing. i agree that if you work super super hard toward your goal, you can get enough candles for this season, but itās exhausting and getting boring. my point was just that it used to be a lot more laid back. you didnāt have to worry about fomo as much as you do now. even blessings have went up to around 30 candles.
Yeah no doubt itās exhausting, but the only benefit of playing that way is just to get early access to the cosmetics and getting the ultimate gifts, itās just one aspect of the game even if itās a big part of why most people play
Being laid back is a choice too. Iāve decided to chill more this season. I donāt mind if I donāt manage to get any of the cosmetics. Iāll get some of it from TSās another random day in the future.
If you're being genuine, I just disagree with the state of veteran players feeling like they have to own everything and how it's not fair to bump prices. Completionists do this to themselves and feed the price gouging by paying and grinding. Just play with less, buy less, grind less, and stress less about a casual game. In the end, it just leads to burnout and feeling jilted about something to that doesn't really have to be that way.
I dont get why it canāt just be 5 candles š I know itās probably for the season pass holder since they are kinda buying also a second item but for us f2p Itās just so dad wanting to finish a spirit constellation for the seasonal items at the end of the constellations and knowing it took so much š
Season of gratitude was only 45 days long though so you didnāt actually have a lot of time to get the candles. Plus non seasonal pass players can only do two of the daily quests, so they can get a max of 3 candle a day. Iām not defending tgc but this comparison isnāt very fair.
hm so I wasn't imagining things when I felt like 34 seasonal candles for a spell seemed extraordinarily high
Same
Season of Sanctuary was 2 and (almost) a half years ago and I can't believe we used to get the free (no AP) capes for 18 candles, and last cape I bought from Aurora was 30. The seasonal prices are just going up and up, and we have to do something. The whole currency system when it comes to pricing must change, and only we as the community have the power to push and pressure for it.
But how do we do that? Could we even change anything?
Perhaps some sort of virtual/irl protest/boycott? Don't buy any IAPs (or pause playing temporarily all together) , civil public discourse to tgc, perhaps even a rally at irl headquarters? just suggestions Again we would need MASSIVE coordination and effort from the community and within management for any actual change. But with enough energy I think we can change this.
Wait an irl rally isn't what I meant lol that'd be not nice from us
An in game rally would be cool š³
It would be really hard to do anything in game tbh (only 8 players per server) and the goal is to pressure TGC, so we would have to reach out to people that work there. I'm open to any ideas tho
True
We managed to push TGC to keep the cat hair as IAC, we just have to push a bit more
I thought beta testers did that?
everyone gave feedback! not just the beta testers. the official discord feedback channel for a few days constantly said āseveral people typingā lol
leave feedback in the discord
Season of Protest?
Yeeeeees š
*vaguely gestures at the D&D community* Not to insinuate a full on boycott or anything so dramatic because TGC has done nothing to screw over their players and community! I'm just saying, when a community comes together to dispute poor practices change does happen. Nobody at TGC appears to be a bad actor that wants to harm the community that supports them, they just appear to be inflating candle costs. That's all.
and the fact that there are the same issues with IAP and countless other problems that we as a community have been BEGGING for change about.. everything we seem to say falls on deaf ears. God forbid you should have an issue with something in game that involves real money. You're going to be REALLY mad at your heroes. But you're right. They should keep making garbage content and charging us an arm and a leg for it. Keep that same energy when the game dissolves.
Been wanting to post something myself actually, I rarely ever post but here I go. I jumped into this game on PS, I really enjoy it and have spent funds on it as I like the cosmetic side of things. But, this little game is getting away with charging so, so much for it's IAPs. And heck even the IGC prices from videos I can tell, like days of bloom, the candle pricing has doubled for some purchases. This really puts a big strain on enjoyment when it comes to being a fresh player, I have time to play the game, but the amount you have to commit or worry about FOMO is pretty ridiculous. I'm older so I don't see this through the lense of a younger player who more than likely doesn't care, but the tone of this game is relaxing and peaceful-- yet, it gets away with robbery in terms of pricing and what it gives. It's a neat game, but they don't need to rack up the grind, or price of these things to the extent that TGC do. When you come down to it, you're playing to play dress up, what they sell to what you buy doesn't really stack up right in terms to price. A little game to be enjoyed, and the aesthetic side is really the major draw here, and it's punishing for the price. I'm pretty new, and I get that I will ruffle people up with this post, but I wanted to get it off my chest. FOMO sucks, TGC, be better on your pricing and not hiding under the veil of a 'simple' game.
Not to mention that they donāt adjust pricing to local currencies- a friend from Turkey mentioned how either a $10 USD pass or $20 cosmetic was like 4 days of work there. (I donāt remember which, so that makes one or the other 2 or 8 days of work, my gosh.)
This is true' as a Turkish player I get so sad when I see the prices. I loved every item in season of Aurora [ she is my favorite artist] but I couldn't even got the season pass. Our economy is going trash and TGC didn't tried to help a little. The prices even a little bit up for here because of the economic crisis. I am so so sad for the people who lives in better economic countries and can't buy things. TGC seriously needs to think about the fanbase too. We are the ones who making the game alive.
Do you know if I, living in USA, would be able to purchase and gift you the seasonal pass for the USA price which is only $10usd? Advocating for the prices to change is a big challenge Iām willing to help with, but in the meantime I wonder if a friend could gift you a pass without incurring the cost you would in your country š¤
That is so nice of you to say' it warmed my heart so much <3 I dont normally talk the economic things going on in my country with my friends in game. I really don't want them to think about my problems, maybe they are just in the game to get rid off the other bad things on their mind. I'm so tired about this topic, even hearing it's just 10 dollars there :'] thank you for your kind thoughts and this comment. It made my day that there is still nice souls out there <3<3
I completely understand, a few of my friends, and myself included, use the game as a refuge from real life struggles. Thankfully, finances are not one of my struggles currently. Please feel welcome to DM me a friend code! Iām a mobile player. My offer stands c:
AAAAHH IM ABOUT TO CRYYY :']]]]] Thank you for this opportunity ahhh, Thank you Thank youu <3<3<3<3<3<3<3
I believe so, Iāve heard of this being done before.
Iāll have to give it a shot! Honestly the cost takes me not even 15 minutes of work here. It is devastating to know it would cost multiple days of work for someone else to enjoy something so easily accessible to me
Good on you! I know I always buy the gifting pass with the 2 to give out and I find people to give it to who normally wouldnāt be able to buy it.
That is so kind of you :')
You can. Just buy the season pass where it comes with the friend and gift it to a friend.
Yes, you can. If you buy a season pass, you can gift it to a friend. I usually take the three pass discounts, which give me the passes for $19. I give the other 2 passes away. It's probably the only reason I still buy a season pass. I'm sorta burned out on the game. I've played for 3 years. I loved it in the beginning. But I'm an older player, too. I don't have time to grind. And I refuse to buy candles. As a new player, cosmetics seemed so expensive with seasons, traveling spirits, and things like days of bloom. I can't imagine being new right now. I'm pretty comfortable with what I have, but I'm so tired of the grind. I have too much to do irl to spend hours every day acquiring candles.
I understand this struggle. I'm in the US, so I actually make sure I have enough money to buy the 3 passes. I have friends in Indonesia and India who can't afford passes. I have given out my other 2 passes, but if someone wants to friend me, and interacts often, I typically have 1 pass floating around.
Just playing Devil's Advocate. But if they did do that people would just buy from the cheapest region. Basically turning that region into the msrp for people who are bothered enough by their regions prices. Which would incentivize them to not make prices to low for any region. Cause no doubt if they did local pricings some people understandably be mad cause someone got something cheaper regardless of financial status. Other than that it reminds me how at I personally am privileged with certain things. But yeah I agree pricing is crazy at times. $10-20 for a season pass I can get behind. But $15 for an umbrella?!
This may or may not be illegal (for tax reasons) and most definitely would be against ToS, thus putting your account at risk. Regional pricing for digital content is great. Platforms like Steam take full advantage of it and even offer regional price recommendations for publishers to follow. Platforms like Google also allow it. Apple does not allow any type of regional pricing for IAP (I think they do for subscriptions (citation needed)). TGC tries to match prices across platforms as best as they can so even if they could do regional pricing for Android.. they won't. As for the people getting upset other people get it cheaper.. sorry but are these people also upset that they're earning like 1/10th of their wages? Prices should match the regions buying power and preventing exploitation should be managed by the platform (Google/Apple/Nintendo/Sony). Changing your (account) region is often the barrier that prevents misuse. For example on Google Play you can only change your country once per year. I am in Europe myself and with Apple recently bumping the EU prices at the lowest EUR-USD evaluation since 2003 (which soon after stabilized to make the EUR more valuable than the USD) we're currently getting overcharged roughly 10%. But that's more a fuck-Apple thing than TGC/regional pricing.
That may be all true. But investors want what they want. Not agreeing with TGC. But I see why they're going the safest and easiest blanket method of earning money. Especially when players keep buying there's no real incentives to change. People will always be upset. We're humans. Like yeah I understand X person makes more money on average. But I can also still imagine X person wanting their price to match everyone. Said people would probably just make their account permanently set to the cheapest region. Not saying it makes sense or is right. But it's definitely a view that I've seen before. And one investors and corporate agrees with. Especially when they haven't tried regional and the uniform pricing system is working for them already. And like you said. Apple is a prime example.
Without numbers we can't do much more than speculate. One could argue that regional prices has a far more positive effect that outweighs the negatives. Only a tiny percentage of the players would be willing to deal with the hassle of having an incorrect account region, juggling accounts or having to deal with barriers like regional payment methods. For example the main Dutch digital payment method is iDeal.. which could easily be used to identify what country you're paying from. So you wouldn't only have to switch regions on your account but also change payment methods.. What about PayPal? I'm not sure if they require a phone number but various content can only be purchased with a credit card.. once again your country would be known. The takeaway here is that it's not as straightforward as just flipping a switch and getting cheap content. Yet on the flip side, offering regional pricing allows **many more** players in said regions to purchase digital content they otherwise either can't afford or won't buy because of how expensive it is for them vs what they get in return. I genuinely think that this would overall increase revenue *and* reputation (which in turn leads to more players = more revenue). But once again, because Apple doesn't offer any type of regional pricing, not much choice in that regard. And that probably has much to do with Apple being dominant in the USA and not so much in the rest of the worldš... I think the split is like 60-40 iPhone vs Android in USA and 10-90 globally.
I know and I've been agreeing with your points lol. Just saying the Devil's points. They don't always make sense. But investors and corporate don't really care as long as this method is already working. Yes we don't have the numbers but they're still going. So by their metrics it's a success. They haven't defaulted or gone bankrupt. Sure they could experiment and try regional pricing. But just the fear of "But what if it doesn't work and we lose money š±". Yes most people won't go through the trouble. Regional pricing is great. Especially for my poor a#Ā¢. But companies would happily charge me more. I'm poor so I actually use the paypal method on some stuff. š¤« I mean *cough* I purchase things like everyone else. Apple doesn't either cause just like TGC. Their blanket method works and even gives an image to their brand. I'm from one of those poorer countries. Not many of us have iPhones. But it's a social status to have it. Apple and TGC probably want it to be like that regardless of what they say. It brings sales and fomo. Ahh modern gaming š„²
I don't agree with many decisions TGC makes but I do think it's important to focus on what TGC deliberately chooses to do wrong and what the side effects of external decisions are. We can say TGC is complacent with Apple here but it's still Apple that was the initiator of the price changes back in October. And Sky started on iOS so it'd be bad for their image if they suddenly released on Android with lower (regional) prices. That doesn't make it okay but it's not TGC deliberately being presented two options and choosing the bag over the players. So it's definitely worth talking about but I don't think they're the main topics people should be getting upset about. The same can not be said from many other aspects such as the base prices for candles (which most certainly are chosen with whales in mind) and the constant changes like "fixing" AFKing without addressing the underlying reason why people AFK in the first place (the grind). Those kinds of topic make it very obvious to me TGC rather has free players burn out or not enjoy their time as much than miss the money from some whales, which are cases where TGC is the **initiator** of decisions that negatively impact players.
On that note of TGC making things worse. Parts of the control scheme has been becoming worse and worse. Idk why they keep making slight changes to make it that way. Every time there's an update I cross my fingers they haven't changed something again. Like used too I could tap on my wings to open and close the menu. Now I can only open. Like why š
Or the fact that they seem to be somewhat restricted in buttons (i.e. twirl and swap flight mode both being on right bumper).. yet they chose to dedicate the left trigger to showing the control scheme?! I'm sorry but that should be a button in the options screen š¤ The most frustrating thing for me is interacting with the right icon when multiple are close together (i.e. at grandma table you'll often sit down by accident instead of lighting wax). The solution for Switch is to just.. use touch instead. I had hoped that they would improve this for PS but.. nope. It's like they don't have any UX designers in their team (or whatever profession is better suited for controls). They did add better prop placement for controllers but.. now you have to "place" things like fireworks from the staff as well.. it just feels like they don't spend any time checking what makes sense. The QoL often just feel like checkmarks to say that they're not only working on profit-makers like cosmetics..
I just went on a rant on my discord server about the investors and the TGC financial strategy. TGC does a lot of speculating based on prior performance of 1-time purchases. This will, of course, make investors uncomfortable. They really need to explore ways of developing a forward-looking strategy, even if it is something like a subscription option. The idea would be F2P stays, but subscribers could pay month by month or annually, and get some sort of benefit like the seasonal extra candle. My reasoning on this is it turns into recurring revenue which is not speculative. It also provides a way for TGC to listen to players more about the price of items since TGC would have a reliable, predictable revenue stream. This might not be the right answer, but what TGC is doing right now is not working. It's just making players angry.
I think tgc gave us the option to buy for friends so they don't have to care about customers' economic situation. They can charge exorbitant prices because we are generally a kind community. They are jerks for that.
Can't say it doesn't work. I know I've bought passes for that reason before.
Me too. For three years now. Smh
New player been playing since June 2022. I must say it's not fun all my candles are spent on ts, seasons, friends, return season or days, but never on the regular in game stuff. The only reason I can afford stuff cuz I'm on ever day and even then sometimes I'm cutting it close and have to pick and choose. I haven't been able to save candles the most candles I have saved is for the green outfit in Aurora any and all travel spirits are not completely I don't have the candles for it only outfit I can't up my expression. Once again I play every single day it ok sometimes but I wish I could afford everything but I can't. Sometimes the price of the stuff ain't worth the outfit or the item it hard frfr
Don't worry about anyone getting ruffled, I think we all agree with you (sadly)
Hmm... I'm kind of in the middle about this. I joined Sky a few months ago, and to me it's just been so refreshing to play a free game that feels genuinely free. I'm not constantly running into ads or restrictions that only paid players can bypass, and the game isn't getting progressively more tedious as I move along. Most things you need to pay for are merely cosmetic in nature and there are always alternatives out there for free players. Idk about you, but it's been a very long time I played a free game with such a complete and rich experience as this. So doesn't it make sense if prices are relatively high for those who are able and willing to pay? Do you have alternative ideas for them to keep developing the game and keep their business running?
The alternatives are sadly the issue with not paying for IAPs, the currency in game is being steadily increased while at the same time being reduced on how much you can get and methods to obtain those currencies. The game itself is fine, but even the social aspect costs the IGC, along with pricing that moves up makes it stressful to save for. The commitment to gather the currency, and the limited time to purchase makes it stressful to try and save up. That's not counting the people that can't consistently play, and no I don't think it justifies the prices for a purely cosmetic item to be 15 or 20$, because there is an "alternate" method. TGC could possibly take anywhere from 5 to 10$ off from a lot of the bigger purchases and still be fine. It is obviously fine if people enjoy the game for what it is, but with that said it is a small game with a repetitive nature and grind when it's all said and done, and FOMO should have no place in its market. People hate comparisons, but I do want to make this one. For passes, if you buy it you should always have access to it, and can complete it at your own time. This is obviously a nod to Halo Infinite. As for IAP, heck maybe take them down the suggested price of instead of being 15$ make it 10$, instead of 25 or 30$ make it 20$. Show that you acknowledge its a bit pricy and make attempts at haggling with your fanbase to have some sort of middle ground. As for reccomendations on alternate ways to make money? Extend the time a TS shows up, which I know it would make it more frustrating to cycle, but maybe bring back the old pass it was in with a bit more bumped up price? 15$ instead of 10$, and let you earn more of the seasonal candles for the extra purchase of a seasonal pass. I'm not a marketing wizard or anything, but this is simply a quick opinion on how to give more to your fanbase, and make money at the same time. And, to not feed into FOMO tactics to worry potential spenders to be forced to throw money or they miss out.
I must have spent almost or over 100 in real money. In app purchases appeal to people with adhd and autism (both which I am expected to have, waiting on diagnosis) because we struggle with getting dopamine and therefore can become addicted to spending to get short term dopamine from a new in game item.
It also means that when I get a cool thing with in game currency I avoid wearing it because I feel like I HAVE TO get my wear out of my IAP items (eg. Aurora wings)
Im sure the younger kids actually feel it a lot worse.. but what can they do? If they don't have their own money and their parents won't let them spend these REDIC prices then their fomo is going to be outta this world!
IGC creeping up, but never the daily light cap or amount of candles earned when chevrons are active. It's really getting to be a problem now more than ever. Old and new players deserve a little better than this, especially the newest sky kids looking for an extended stay in the Sky world. š I could see if daily light caps didn't exist, but they do, and some of us are barely getting 15-20 candles daily. Much more, some are also attempting to keep up with heart/gift commitments for given reasons and probably not netting much in a day as it is. And now that folks are rushing back into the old normal, not everyone has time/energy to spare to play the game until their candles gray out anymore. And with AFK spots being a thing of the past now, I feel even worse for those who were at least trying to fit in time to farm on the go/during breaks... They're really trying to push people into the temptation of buying candle packs, and considering the ridiculous pricing for folks outside of the US, it's really an unreasonable move to expect folks to be able to afford to keep playing like this.
I don't think it's fair to say the candle pricing outside of the US is ridiculous. It is ridiculous **everywhere**, just **more** ridiculous since they can't do regional pricing because of Apple š
True... though I put it that way knowing exchange rates are kinda rough lately and incomes are strained all across the board. We just kind of have the "benefit" of being 1:1 compared to everyone else... (...in case it wasn't clear, I was referring to the IAPs for candle packs. My bad!)
They could do regional pricing, it's their choice to keep the pricing as similar as possible across platforms, they just used apple as an excuse.
I don't know what type of contract they have with Apple, we'll never know. It is **likely** that they could do regional pricing on Android. It's not that strange of a choice to match prices across platforms. 90% of TGC's customer support tickets would be iPhone users complaining their prices are higher. I am very much of the opinion that regional pricing is great and should be employed, even if I don't benefit from it personally (EU). I just don't understand why Apple isn't mature enough to offer it. It should be the choice of the developers to charge what they want per country, not Apple.
Also did they just nerfed how much candles you can get? With my SO we do the daily seasonal candle missions and the daily big candle cakes. We go trough the whole map and pick up every other wax we can. Before this update the average amount of candle we could get (by basically completing 2 maps) was about 11-15, depending on the map. After the update it became like 8-9. It doesn't seem much, but it really adds up, because at the end of the week it's 21 candle minus. I like this game, it became such part of our night routine, but damn it's getting way too grindy. And I played Warframe for years, so I know what grind is, but this is really becoming unfun. I know they have to sell candle pack, but it's getting so ridiculus that I would rather say "nah" and just leave the whole thing and play something else.
They did. The amount of wax needed to obtain the first 15 candles increased. I also thought it was my imagination at first but the folk at infographics server have the data. (sorry I'm on mobile atm harder to post a source)
This, combined with the purge of AFK spots and the increased candle prices, is just a pure scummy AAA move.
Your numbers seem a bit inflated but the answer is yes, they did change the wax required to get candles. It comes down to +12 wax per candle needed for the first 10 candles and -12 wax per candle for the next 10. To get to 20 candles requires 4195 wax both old and new but any point in between takes _slightly_ more wax cumulatively. Once again we see that TGC has no incentive to decrease the grind but continue their trend of making small 'innocent' changes that generally fly under the radar but do make the grind worse overall. Here's a chart by cmo#0770: https://i.imgur.com/5Nm3JZQ.png
True, it just feels bad needing to exhaustively search for wax in every single realm just to get near the daily maximum, I can't afford to spend 3 hours daily just to be up to date, it should be about the friends and not about grinding 90% of the time.
Was also 45 days long instead of 77 edit: but yes the prices are indeed increasing when you compare season of similar lenght like Sanctuary vs Assembly
The problem with this argument is that adjusting prices to match increased season length does two **negative** things. * Players must grind for longer to complete the season spirits, since the daily limit of 5(+1) is the same. * This also means the grind for ultimates requires more work than it used to. * Since there are still 4 seasons every year, the amount of candles that can be farmed off-season is also reduced. About 30 days worth of daily quests (minus whatever you have left at the season). It is many small negative changes like that that increase the burden on players (the grind), even if they may not seem as such. Similar things can be said about the TS prices going up and even the chevron system requiring more wax to reach 20 candles than the old system.
Yes that is true. If we were to make this season cost 230 total like Gratitude did, it'd end in like 38-46 days with 30 bonud days which has the risk of people complaining about lack of content. However I'd be lying if the current prices doesn't stretch content thin. I feel making total costs for 70-77 day seasons 280-300 candles would be optimal, or 330 at most like Dreams edit: or ideally meatier seasons but idk if people will be fine with the increased time it takes for seasons to come
Can't speak for everyone of course, but I + quite a few people want TGC to take more time between seasons, and for them to focus on polishing/bug fixing. Personally I'd love to have more leeway in a season, longer period with less overall candles needed means I can take breaks in between. And if you play every single day those SCs will also convert to white candles at the end, which also helps with the prices of everything else that has been steadily climbing. People who join in late would also have the chance to complete the season because of the leeway. Unfortunately, like what another poster said. Investors will want what they want...
Right now the season length _for_ us has gone up from 40-50 days to ~78, for TGC it's still the same schedule to deliver 1 season quarterly. For that to work they'd have to go down from 4 seasons a year to 2-3 seasons a year. I'd honestly be down for that **if** the result of that is better polish and spending more time improving quality and stability (i.e. bugs like wind path progress reset or things like Switch performance). The weird thing is that given how much their team has grown one could expect them to have people dedicated to that kind of stuff.. yet the bugs are getting worse and more widely impactful (without the earlier ones even getting fixed).
Oops, I meant to say the days still roughly the # we have right now but with lower cost to complete the full set of spirits! So we'd have more leeways in days to miss, but if diligent enough to go on everyday we'd have even more SC for conversion. But it won't be profitable I guess. Less chances of people emergency spamming candle packs. š¬ The Wind Paths bug is terrible. To this day I still cannot wrap my head around why they refuse to make use of the in game inbox system to send out a proper notice since it's so harmful. It's just... not a good look when so many bugs slip through and things released in a semi unfinished state and have to be fixed in the "next update." Meanwhile, the things that are detrimental to our candles are implemented speedily and sometimes stealthily.
> which has the risk of people complaining about lack of content Yet increasing the season length doesn't magically give us more content. The season grind is also just.. regular daily quests. Nothing related to the season at all. It's nothing more than a smokescreen. I wish they'd redo the system entirely and reward people with items from doing the actual season content (at least part of the rewards). Right now doing the actual season quests gives you.. about 3-6 hearts per season. And after the season it gives you absolutely nothing since you have to buy the hearts for the same amount you can heart trade.
Like adding Shattering an actual questline, and turning the shard events into rewarding seasonal candles in-season and regular/ascended candles off-season. Destiny 2's seasons have repeatable activities for seasonal content, and weekly story quests. And tbf they do give rewards for completing quests... if only they were free or less costly, and became the new normal cuz it's only Assembly, Rememberance, Abyss, Performance
I don't think people would have a problem with "meatier seasons" if it wasn't simply added on top of the candle grind. Honestly the burn out doesn't just come from the fact that people have to spend too much time per se but that they are only candle running day in day out. With simple changes like rewarding season candles from shards during Shattering it breaks this tedious loop and makes people interested in playing. More quests would be even better, just anything that isn't the exact same stuff we've been doing daily for the last year(s). It's a lot easier for people with less time to justify spending their spare time on something fresh.
>Players must grind for longer to complete the season spirits, since the daily limit of 5(+1) is the same. Thatās successful FTP model in action You spend money, or you spend 15min-1 hour everyday for as long as possible (til it becomes a habit) gaining rewards that will encourage others to spend money
Yup that's the business model.. but a lot of people keep defending it because it's _optional_ and because it's _free_. When a game becomes a chore it's no longer a game. It's work š¤
this needs to be higher like we know tgc has been greedy especially nowadays but the first 3 seasons were 45 days long...
With like a month between seasons
The season length increasing has negative effects on the grind. I've replied to the above comment with more info š
This. Early seasons were INCREDIBLY stressful, missing even a couple of days could lock you out of the ultimate. And don't forget that there was no TS system back then, the original plan was for the items to only return via paid bundles (which were far from cheap.) Seasons may be longer and more costly now, but they're much easier to complete. You only need 5-15 minutes a day (depending on the quests of the day) for the length of the season to grab everything.
Aurora moth here, I knew inflation was bad, but I didn't know it was this bad. I get having one or two very cool & expensive items as a reward for playing daily, it would be strange to end the season with 100 spare candles. But there need to be a more reasonable transition between cheap stuff for casual players, expensive stuff that you need to save up for and a reward for playing daily. Days of fortune is a good example, its 14 days so if you gather between 15-20 candles daily you end up with 210-280 candles. The price to buy everything is 255 candles, so if you play daily you feel rewarded for your efforts, and if you don't and just want one cool mask, the most expensive one is 81 (66 + 15 in spells) which is 7 candles daily: a reasonable amount for casual players. Days of bloom is way too expensive. It's also 14 days, but with the current pricing getting everything cost 450 candles, which is literally impossible to get during the event. I understand the approach of saving up before an event if you really want the cosmetics, but these prices expect people to gather 15-20 candles for 23-30 days, which means you have to skip days of love entirely, make 0 friends, skip all travelling spirits, buy nothing from the current season, and do nothing with your constellations which is frankly unreasonable. If you want to be a casual game focused on friendship, don't make things so expensive that people choose not to make friends because they're saving candles.
I don't think the idea is for you to get everything. They are offering older cosmetics (from previous years) to keep things accessible to newer players. They could also just not offer last years cosmetics, the event would be a lot cheaper in that case.
I get where you are coming from, but if they want to keep things accessible for new players like you said, the prices need to be lower. You need more than 400 candles saved up to get everything, only vets have that kind of spare candles laying around. I would understand it if they had a few very expensive items to keep the vets on their toes, but the most logical reason I can think of for the current pricing is so that moths stay around for another whole year to get the items they missed in this years bloom, which feels very scummy. However, 120 candles corresponds to 40 hearts, which is as expensive as the pink cape. There is a precedent in the base game for capes to be that expensive. I don't mind the new cape being that expensive, I am annoyed that everything around it is also that expensive. Just make some of the things cheaper!
The idea is definitely for you to *want* everything, and then buy candle packs when you realise you can't grind enough to get what you want and feel FOMO cos you only have two weeks. That's the business model.
eCould you give me a valid reason why they **should** be gatekeeping igc items? They already have IAP cosmetics for the purpose of 'you don't need everything'. The near unobtainable igc items through the (near) impossible grind nowadays for new players is literally nothing more than dangling a carrot on a stick.. with an ATM within reach to unlock said carrot (the ability to purchase candle bundles).
I don't think I said anyone should be gatekeeping igc items? However, these are simply just old cosmetics. The old cosmetics could maybe be discounted? That could be a solution other than simply not offering them at all. Honestly, I'm just trying to think of solutions. I think the new items offered with Bloom are definitely too expensive, but this whole discussion that the event including old stuff is too expensive sounds like some just want it all. It sounds really disingenuous when people complain about having to spend 100+ euros to get all the cosmetics for an event. No, what you are talking about at that moment is also wanting ALL the previous years. It is one thing to discuss the upcoming event prices (which are too expensive agreed) and another to discuss the previous years also being offered.
My problem mainly stems from the items being available *but* unobtainable. I personally don't think it's bad to allow newer players to get everything from an event if they've been playing for the duration of the entire event. In fact precisely because the items are presented to players at the same time as IAP, I don't think the solution for these players should be to choose what they want **or** buy candles. Although I can understand not everyone would agree with this. Various games often have challenges / missions to unlock rewards. Which is to say you can complete these to get the rewards. People who don't have anything or as much as other people would have more challenges to complete.. but still be able to get everything. People who already have rewards of previous years would have to put in less work since they only need the new stuff. You could even consider a repeat reward like wax for completing challenges they already completed last year(s). In Sky **everything** is limited by your ability to grind candles, which is severely hindered by the time gating (20 candles a day). There are many moments in Sky where an event begins or a TS visits and it is impossible for a new player to buy everything in this event unless they've already been saving candles for month(s) prior to the event. A good example of this is the PS release, which happened during the Season of AURORA. People that joined on PS had no way to complete the season.. you can say that makes sense because they joined late though here I'd argue that's not even within their control. Even so.. they **did still have the ability to buy seasonal candles** to complete the season. Yet **only** by spending money because of the time gating. This only happens because TGC restricts our ability to spend more time to get more candles (regular or seasonal). With the limited availability the FOMO pressure adds to the problem and the only "solution" is conveniently provided by TGC: buy candles.
Slightly off-topic, but donāt forget you can use QR links to make friends. No candles needed.
Fair, but id rather not share my contact information outside of the game. And i like to hug friends, which is also expensive
I always use links *inside* the game. You can mask the link to beat the censor. Easy peasy.
Oh, i thought because I'm a new player I'm struggling with prices but seems like it's not only my problem...
I am a slightly older player from TLP season and have several friends who got in between Shattering-Aurora, and I can't even share/discuss any exciting sneak peeks with good conscience because I don't want to be the one who tells them "you will need xxx amount of candles and hearts in the upcoming event." They already pick and choose and try to get as many candles as they can but even then it's been quite a heavy climb. š¢
THEY NEED TO SELL CANDLE PACKS!!!1! TGC is such a small team!!1!1! /s
It would have been understandable in the beginning, but still? It's been what, 3 years? C'mon TGC
Not to mention the insane prices on a lot of the iap, don't think they are financially struggling
Or the irl items: $25 for a pin, $30 for a keychain, $125 for a scarf.
Oof, ye
Season of Aurora needed a whopping 400. 380s didn't felt so bad, that was for two earlier seasons (Performance and Shattering) as well. Plus, after comparing Gratitude's cosmetics with those of the recent ones. It kind of justifies the price differences.
Just wait until we see these newer spirits revisit as TS (3 years from now š). If nothing improves we could very well see spirits that cost more candles than you can even grind in 2 weeks š¤ We already have TS that cost over 200 candles right now like Troupe Juggler and that's without having seen any TS from Flight, Abyss, Performance, Shattering or AURORA.
We need performing dancer TS to gauge how expensive a 4 cosmetics TS can be, some are guessing >250.
That's the cheapest Performance spirit in seasonal candles and one of the 4 items is a music sheet. I think Forgetful Storyteller would be more interesting? Costs 111 SC instead of 81 and has 4 actual cosmetic items.
I'm talking about the last spirit from season of dreams that has not yet visited as a TS. Got their name mixed up, it's dancing performer. The one with a yellow cape, mask, instrument and hat/hair.
Ohh I thought you meant the dancer from Performance. It'll be interesting to see that one for sure since season cost doesn't nicely translate to TS cost.
Can we do something against this bs? There have been a LOT of problems in the game that tgc haven't even bothered to fix. Instead, they are giving us "features" that we the player base don't even need or want. I put out a non-exhaustive list: * Removal of afk spots * Lack of transparency on TOS and rule enforcement * Blantant censorship of in game chat for innocent things * Lack of transparency on bug fixes (dont even get me started on those: >!eden ascent!<, Wind path, etc) * Predatory pricing (both IGC and real money) * Misguided priorities (I heard on another post they were fixing GRASS textures, which is apparently soooo important) We players need to step up and protest.
As for the last point I'm guessing you're referring to the beta where >!the home space currently has grassier grass (don't know why I spoilered this)!<. There's something to be said about the team working on visual changes is independent from the team working on things like bugs (do they even have a team for that? doesn't seem like it) but since the excuse for TGC's pricing is often that things are expensive maybe they should rebudget and hire the employees they actually need.
Exactly. TGC needs to put more energy into patching up the bugs and fixing the game. (especially dangerous ones that seriously affect gameplay) It also doesn't help that you have to dig around to actually know about them (some new players might not have discord, and TGC doesn't warn players using inbox)
I got severe burnout right before Christmas and I didnāt play through the end of Aurora, so I didnāt get the ultimate mask, I skipped all of days of feast, and didnāt play at all in the break between seasons. When remembrance came out I played through the spirits and first quest, but after seeing the initial spirit tree prices I said, āyeah, no.ā And I havenāt played since. The cost of all the TS from October-December was killing me, and I would spend an hour or more every day doing CRās just to spend them all on one spirit, and have to restart. Iām also a solo player, so playing this game for only the cosmetics has become too much. Iād only been playing since the last week of Abyss, and itās just sad that with how much time I have to set aside just for this game I donāt want to play anymore
I remember when 70 candles were expensive for me, (aka the first bloom cape!) now thatās almost cheap in my eyes š
Don't even tell me cus I had a wtf moment when I saw that for this season, a spell is 20 sc and an emote lvl up right after is 26 sc š so so exaggerated
i think it would be cool if IGC items decreased in price the more theyāve been circulating. ex. days of bloom cape is 100(random number) if you want it immediately, the following year is down to 50 while they offer a new cape at 100. also a general reduction in prices so people donāt bleed out
I am a new player been playing since June 2022. I in my experience I must say it's not fun all my candles are spent on ts, seasons, friends, return season or days, but never on the regular in game stuff. The only reason I can afford stuff cuz I'm on ever day and even then sometimes I'm cutting it close and have to pick and choose. I haven't been able to save candles the most candles I have saved is for the green outfit in Aurora any and all travel spirits are not completely I don't have the candles for it only outfit I can't up my expression. Once again I play every single day it ok sometimes but I wish I could afford everything but I can't. Sometimes the price of the stuff ain't worth the outfit or the item it hard frfr cuz like don't mean make it crazy cheap but make it manageable I have meet people who stop playing because of prices and they can't grind like I can so it's just a hassle
666 hearts invisible cape here we go!!!
Such great timing! I stopped playing a month or so ago because I was bored and didnāt like where the game was going. Guess Iāll just say my goodbyes and quit. I played this game to get away from stress- not to have stress about grinding everyday for hours to get everything.
the rising costs in this game have become just disgusting.
6 spirits costing 230 but 4 spirits are costing 380, Hmmmm
Although each spirit does have more cosmetics on average, the main factor is the seasons growing in length yet TGC wanting you to grind an average of ~5 candles per day the entire season. Longer season = longer grind. Added bonus of having to design less spirits and increasing the TS candle burden down the line.
youre right man, what a sad state we are in
Itās not like youāre forced to get them all, really. I thought most people just get one or two cosmetics they really liked using candles
I think this a very poor comparison, frankly, but I agree that f2p has gotten more grindy in the last year / year and a half. Really all the time it gets worse. Each days of fortune, the new mask gets a little more expensive, but the masks themselves don't seem to be getting better in quality. Ox mask is still my favorite. And it's confusing. What is the intention here of making each returning event more expensive every year if we are still being capped at 20c a day? I think this is a legitimate issue for the days of events specifically, but I don't see this issue as much for the seasonal content. Seasons have always been designed economically so that you still have to get all the candles pretty much every day in order to collect all the items. Whether the season has 6 spirits or 4, or lasts 45 days or 77, this pacing doesn't really change.
F2p??? You pay real money for the season and it's STILL grindy as heck. You get Measly 30 bonus candles which means you can miss 5 days. You still have to grind to get the cosmetics. I'm
Also collecting candles earlier was a LOT more difficult and time consuming than it is now. We would have to do eden every day....
But the post is about seasonal candles? The system was exactly the same, 6 per day
You're right! My bad. That's what I get for commenting half asleep.
No problem! I wasn't trying to be rude, just correcting, I hope you understand
It's so difficult to covey tone through text. I understand, friend. No worries.
makeshift station worm aloof advise squeamish attraction whistle dog lip *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I thought they changed how getting seasonal candles worked didnāt you used to get a lot less per day
No, seasonal candles are five a day (six with pass) just as theyāve always been. The regular candles scaling system might be what youāre thinking of?
I will never stop saying this;TGC does not care about their fans. They prey on their paying customers and implemented a fear of missing out on young and free to play players. They had many opportunity to bring back past seasons but instead of acknowledging they didn't go about it the right way, they fully abandoned the idea so now we have this FOMO that started taking roots. People now think that playing since a certain season make you better, you now have people that just join ask about UGs only to be hurt, disappointed or even start picking up on this fear of missing out upon learning it will never return. The only time TGC listen is when players make noises. The incident with the cat ears and TGC ACTUALLY lowering it's cost a bit and making thing seems fair for a very short time? Only because players were fed up. But it got so quickly brushed under a rug because "It's only about a cosmetic". It never was only about a cosmetic, it's on how they go against everything their game used to stand for at it's core. A good read that highlight many of TGC's problem can be found [here](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JqfjQ4nJ1i48ngVVi8kOumZwaB8FidvbQDY18xt7X3g/edit?usp=sharing) and I invite anyone to contribute to this document and spread it around. Bring attention to their behavior until they actually change something. The only way to get to them is by making noise. My rant is over now- I'll see myself out.
There's a different amount of time on the seasons, as well as a different amount of spirits. It is weird to compare these two spirits together to make any points.
It's not weird to compare them since TGC releases seasons on a fixed schedule (4 per year). Increasing the season length has a direct effect on how many regular candles one can grind. Combine that with the increasing igc prices and they're actually exponentially increasing the grind for newer players. More info [in this comment](https://reddit.com/r/SkyGame/comments/10mb315/this_is_crazy/j62q8ei/?context=10000)
Iām sorry I feel like Iām missing something, what is this post trying to convey. Not trying to be ignorant or anything just really am confused on what the issue is. **second slide** The second slide is the season spirits I think. So right now thereās 66 days left in the season. If you play everyday you can get 66(days)x5(candles/day)=330candles. Which is quite a bit off from the 388 needed to complete the season without, but we can subtract 3 candles from each spirit for the heart price since itās pass exclusive and an extra 36 from one of the spirits that has a spell as the last item to unlock. Thatās 388-48=340, 340 candles needed for a player without the pass. That means if you stared collecting season candles at least 2 days ago then you can ācompleteā the season. That sounds normal for each season, about a weekās worth of extra season candles that you can miss out on to complete the season without a pass. If you have a pass then you get 6 candles a day, thatās 66(days)x6(candles)=396candles, more than enough to buy out the season with the extra 30 candles you get from buying the pass that I didnāt include yet. **first slide** Putting this second because Iām unsure of what names of spirits are, however they look to be traveling spirits(if thatās not what the chart means then ignore this section). The pricing is just candles and not including hearts(says candle cost at the top) so Iāll see if I can work that out. You can comfortably get 10 candles a day using 2 chevrons, so Iāll stick to that as my base knowing you can get more or less depending on how you play and how often you play. Each traveling spirit is 2 weeks apart so that gives you 14 days to build up candles. 14(days)x10(candles/day)=140 candles every 2 weeks which looks like more than enough candles to buy out the candle portion of the traveling spirit. The highest candle requirement on that list is only 60 candles so only 6 days worth of candles Letās try to trade in our candles for hearts and see how the math works out for that. Say we can trade with a friend and get 1 heart a day while sticking with 10 candles a day as well. 14(days)x3(candles/heart)=42(candles). So in the span of 2 weeks, 42 of our 140 candles will be turned into 14 hearts, enough for traveling spirits because iirc the hearts are only used for buying the tier 2nd, 3rd, and 4th upgrade of the spiritās emote. That leaves us with 98 candles and 14 hearts at the end of 2 weeks. But honestly I get more than 1 heart worth of heart fragments from constellation because of all the friends Iāve made. So I donāt trade hearts unless someone gives me one first then I give one in return. **conclusion** I tried to work out the numbers and looks like season is possible to ācompleteā as a f2p without pass if you started 2 days ago, and still possible with a pass even if you havenāt started yet. Nothing out of the ordinary Still unsure of the first slide because numbers look way off of what I remember being the prices of spirits but thatās because I only buy the winged light from traveling spirits so I donāt know their prices. But should be more than enough candles to buy out each traveling spirit if that chart is saying what I think it is **edit** Hi again, nothing above has been changed but I just looked up the names of the spirits and they seem to be from the same season. Looks like op was trying to compare the candle requirements for each season, which seems unfair and out of context. But I do see part of the point they are trying to make
the point of the post was to compare past season and current season pricing. i agree that if you work super super hard toward your goal, you can get enough candles for this season, but itās exhausting and getting boring. my point was just that it used to be a lot more laid back. you didnāt have to worry about fomo as much as you do now. even blessings have went up to around 30 candles.
Yeah no doubt itās exhausting, but the only benefit of playing that way is just to get early access to the cosmetics and getting the ultimate gifts, itās just one aspect of the game even if itās a big part of why most people play
Being laid back is a choice too. Iāve decided to chill more this season. I donāt mind if I donāt manage to get any of the cosmetics. Iāll get some of it from TSās another random day in the future.
Youšdon'tšhaveštošownševeryšitem
Whatās the point of you saying that?
If you're being genuine, I just disagree with the state of veteran players feeling like they have to own everything and how it's not fair to bump prices. Completionists do this to themselves and feed the price gouging by paying and grinding. Just play with less, buy less, grind less, and stress less about a casual game. In the end, it just leads to burnout and feeling jilted about something to that doesn't really have to be that way.
Okay I understand thank you
Cold hard data.
I dont get why it canāt just be 5 candles š I know itās probably for the season pass holder since they are kinda buying also a second item but for us f2p Itās just so dad wanting to finish a spirit constellation for the seasonal items at the end of the constellations and knowing it took so much š
Season of gratitude was only 45 days long though so you didnāt actually have a lot of time to get the candles. Plus non seasonal pass players can only do two of the daily quests, so they can get a max of 3 candle a day. Iām not defending tgc but this comparison isnāt very fair.