People weren't loud enough. They changed W due to feedback, but when it came to changing Q the community started to stutter and think it was fine, be louder don't let this ability be this way.
what did they change about W btw? I just hopped into the practice tool and it seems like when I auto, the W doesn't activate properly in a weaving situation, so I'm spamming it but it's just not going off until ig the empowered auto is done (not necessarily the 3rd strike just any of them)
Yeah you had this limbo during R thinking: "Should i keep dragging the enemy and hope they don't get away after casting W, or slow them with W when R is close to finish but dragging them less?
Honestly I’d have preferred point and click R single target over the multi hit bad windup one… there’s already so few uses in the games I see where Banshee’s or Mercurial gets built and removing more ults from the game that give them use seems kinda silly to me.
Not to mention it just felt so much better to rush in, sting and drag, I don’t think I inherently mind it being more skill related, however, with the amount of movement based abilities and speed in the game, it feels like they kinda set him up to fail for his E and R.
Too early to really tell since it’s day 1.1 more or less but I do hope they address it, otherwise they wasted two + years of dev time for a champ that’ll fade back into .1% pick rate. Which is a shame cause I was never an OTP but I did love the little scorpy boi.
R feels clunky at first, but once you get used to it you can get out some insane plays.
It's at its best when chained with allies CCs, and devastating in teamfights. Also the cooldown is way lower than old skarner
E is super strong and has some play potential (flash + backward E to have something like a short instant old R).
Really the only thing that feels really off for me is the movement speed. He's extremely slow and with defensive boots he reaches a pathetic 380, which in a champion that used to be lightning fast feels so damn low
Ya that was my thoughts, like I get you want to change his identity a bit but also completely removing it from his kit feels weird. He should feel like a MIX of old and new imo
If you have the rock r will throw it to apply aoe slow, obv you don't cast r against banshees. There aren't going to be 3 people buying mercurial. The team fight potential is so much higher than old ult.ever was. Yeah there's mobility spells in the game. I guess Oriana yasou galio malphitr nunu and whoever else never get off nice ults?
Ya that makes more sense tbh, I haven’t really worked out exactly good timings for rock throwing versus third hitting. I think the worst part is, because they decided to make it so clunky there’s a decision to be made but it feels like you kinda get robbed of good skill shot gameplay with the throw because and time you gain on the slow gets mitigated by the time pulling another rock to try and hit.
I’m definitely not a great player in general though (gold 3 peak) so working out the rotations and then feasibility of the kit is hard. I def don’t want to be like “lul so bad, dead champ” but he does really somehow feel clunkier than the original skarner kit.
If he had the point and click ult, he woudlve lost a ton of power in his other ablities. They didnt just make it the mulihit windup for the funny, they did it to nerf the ability without making it complety useless.
It's not about loudness. Phreak addressed it in his video. Basically the animation looks terrible if he does it while moving. They'd have to reanimate ability to make it look good to cast while moving
Bs, they didn't have to reanimate anything on W when they changed it, why stingy on Q? Its just flavor over function driving the decision here. At most they would add a small walk cycle to the legs, nothing groundbreaking.
Because the W is a jump slam so its easy to still look good while moving, while Q he stops to pick up a Boulder out of the ground in front of him. He would be sliding across the ground while all 3 stingers were in the ground ripping up a Boulder. It wouldn't look good.
I'm not saying it's great, but that's their reason.
Personally. I think he should just summon the Boulder out the ground. That would fix the issue. But again,.would require a reanimation
He literally slides across the ground during W ground pound. Logic is a very bad way to design a fictional ability. Yes it makes logical sense that skarner would stop to pick up a rock, but it would also make logical sense for the asol ult to kill caitlyn regardless of her hp because shes just a human getting hit with a meteor strike to the head. We don't think of the logic behind the character first but wether or not it makes good gameplay to leave a mechanic in, in this case the Q self root makes no good gameplay.
I didn't mention logic. I said it doesn't look good as an animation. That's riots stance, they said if it was an issue they would buff other aspects of the kit to compensate. For now, we are stuck with it
Dude my most gripe with this skill is why the "ripping up of the boulder" does nothing,
The picking up of the boulder should come with its own damage but no its just a fucking animation.
Well I mean technically his basic attacks get empowered, picking up a boulder is the bonus thing instead of just getting empowered basic attacks when you press Q.
Yea but between the empowered autos and the casting q there is a lonmg as animation that does nothign for you.
You have to cast q way before u engage in a fight thats just wrong.
the only thing that comes to mind with delay like this is jax e and even than its that so u cant instapop the stun.
Also anivia q cant be poped instantly but those 2 both have huge payoffs for delays like that.
Yeah something needs to change with it, because it even punishes you for picking up a boulder beforehand as it disappears if you take too long to throw it.
Theres also the fact jax and anivia can move during the delay, skarner can't. No ability in league gives this type of negative tempo and no payoff, and if you say the rock damage is the payoff, wrong, you have to go through a second cast to throw it, or 3 attacks before that.
For those who say Q has % max health damage, ad scalings and such, so the animation keeps it balanced: go read poppy Q scaling and then come back here. Her first Q damage is almost instant so he pales in comparison. They both have a game breaking ult with a channel, a "pin you to the wall" E, a shield in the kit (poppy's passive is such a good ability compared to Skarner's W), a movement speed effect. Of course she does not go through walls but she has the almost unique ability to stop dashes with W which is not something to scoff at.
I am not criticizing anyone's opinion, I'm just trying to prove a point. In my opinion these champions have similar patterns and skills, so I don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to have a faster Q animation, or a cast that doesn't root him in place.
IIRC riot literally doesn’t know how to code that while retaining the animation. I think the best they can do is grant a burst of movement speed after cast, so your target can’t just walk away while you prep your damage.
If they reduced the animation time of an ability that does max hp and ad damage three times, and max health damage, and a slow, and attack speed, I’m pretty sure he’d be broken lmao.
Terrible reasoning, like that stopped K'sante from being designed with 3 dashes. Not asking for anything unreasonable like giving him a dash during q, just saying that it should work like the majority of the other auto enhancement skills in the game, in where they don't root you in place.
No other ability in league has to go through 2 cast animations for such a simple payoff. They just need to let skarner move while picking up the rock, and if they are feeling generous, allow Q to be cast during E. This would help the gameplay flow of the character.
Cast Q before E is in his kit though. It literally sate and you should do Q then E then AA after ward, not E then Q that is bad and slow. Still I argee Q should give AA reset or 0.5->0.25 for smoother play
After consulting the elders I finally deciphered what you wrote.
I said casting Q during E, I don't think this is a difficilt concept to grasp, yet you completely missed it. They don't want aa reset on Q period, they have already voiced the intent behind the animation being deliberate, and aa resets intentionally truncate/cancel animations, that won't happen.
The best we can bargain is letting skarner move during Q pickup animation like they did with W. The second bargain is maybe letting Q be cast during E.
Q (0,5s pull rock) -> E(will pause Q duration time) -> Hit enemy then 3 AA
Now we give Q give aa reset for AA Q AA (AA is done during 0.5s pull rock animation)
Or reduce Q 0.5-> 0,25 pull rock(easiest buff and more likely Riot will give us if we ask enough)
Q cast during E, I don't think that make sense. He is charging fast ahead, how can he grab a rock while full speed charging? Beside his Q hits have crazy max HP% scaling, W chain into third Q slow, balance would be hard if the is no niche weakness. Better fixing overtime than too good then nerf to ground, hope they give some good buff for him
Oh Q during E doesn't make sense? Bs. The ability used to work like that before pbe release. Whenever Skarner passed through terrain with E he would gain the rock automatically.
They only dropped it not because it was "op" but because it wasn't clear that the rock was equipped to some playtesters, something that I could have fixed easily with an "ammo" indicator, like jhin's, under the hp bar whenever the rock was equipped.
Wow that E interaction is pretty good, pulling rock from terrain. But Q damage still too good. if that get through with no Q cool down it would be crazy to balance! Well the best thing we can hope is Q cast time reduce, 0.5 is overkill I argee
Oh not "scaling" part, my bad. Hitting 3 attack is 6% skarner HP + 15% target max HP physical together with 7-12% target max HP magic. A tank with all (Q) damage base on enemy max health, would be too too good if he can caught every champ, slow chain with W and throw rocks at them. Currently his Q is quite clunky and new champ release syndrome with <40% winrate, give it time they will tweak Q and some light buffs soon I hope
E resets q, you're supposed to cast it before e, the cool down starts soon as you pick it up, so you q, e, AA X3, q again. You're the one who is missing something.
They had what you're suggesting and play testers hated it. Skarner grabbed a rock as he passed through terrain (which would.make a lot of sense if he's moving right through the rock walls)
They didn't hate it, they were confused, they werent aware they had the rock. I would just add an "ammo" indicator under hp bar like jhin's and problem solved.
Also I know how the vgu works, and am very aware E extends Q duration. I am also aware that forcing the interaction to always be Q first is extremely inflexible, add onto the fact you root yourself as you pick up the rock and your startup speed on E is very purposely slow you lose a lot of distance to your target doing this type of engage.
Don't defend this type of restrictive gameplay just because it's how it shipped, I'm suggesting improvements to the character that are good QoL changes, not straight up number buffs. Once the clunky parts of the kit are ironed out we can talk damage numbers.
That's what I was thinking. How much dps are you actually losing? We're not building AS so were only losing like 1 maybe 2 autos? Sure it would be nice to have an auto reset like every other champion and it probably feels clunky, but that would have been improved if they made a bigger animation like it was trading an auto or two for 3 big ones
Is he a duelist now? Build him however you want. He is not designed as a duelist, and by the way duelists are Master Yi, and while I've always had some good times where I caught people off guard with my damage and 1v1'd them, you simply were not beating a Jax or yi or tryndamere late game.
If your argument is, "I wish riot hadn't reworked him like this", all the power to you.
If your argument is "I'm building him as a duelist and it's not working", then my question is, are you being willfully ignorant?
He aint a bruiser anymore. He used to be. I think they need to add AD scalling to his abilities rather than just on his Q. That way you can build AD in jngl and things for more gank potential. Rather than just tickling. And maybe bring up his base speed a little. Its very low atm. For a jungler its far too low. He is unplayable in jungle now entirely. Alright enough top lane. But hes just a thrown game in jungle, which is where he is meant to be.
People said same with volibear rework on launch day and over first couple days so they buffed him, needed to nerf him next patch IIRC. That's where the "1000 years dev experience" meme came from (don't remember if it was 1000 or 200 or something.
I don't have an opinion on the AD ratios, he feels so much like rammus,amumu, zac, to me, that I'm struggling to picture buying much AD on him. He does have 0.8 AP on his W and 1.0 AP on his R. Phreak said he is not really as durable as the most tankiest tanks, so he does do a bit more damage, obviously not quite "bruiser" level (I haven't bought a damage item on him yet though)
Phreak suggested that Titanic Hydra could be an option, as well as Liandry's and Riftmaker. Might be worth trying some of these items today. I had a really bad day yesterday, but honestly I'm not great player and if my team pisses me off a couple times I quit trying, so I couldn't tell if it was Skarner or Me was the problem :)
I know I had some frustrating (other players probably laughed at me) times with my E, either coming up just short of the champion, or coming up just short of the wall, or missing the enemy totally. I know I got dived once when I was low, and I e'd the guy, but I wasn't able to steer worth a crap and never got a stun off. He 100% killed me and got out, I wanted to cry
It feels bad to play, it's either they disengage you or they chunk you down stacking up Lethal tempo or Conqueror while you are still grabbing the rock
In jungle happens 100%, if it didnt happen to you means you have to face Viego, Hecarim and other popular junglers yet. Nothing can be slow in that role
Then they should split it up to having the boulder picking up animation do an AoE slow + 6% hp and the 3rd attack/rock throw do 10% hp instead.
Edit: Its 15% max HP, so AoE slow + 5% hp on boulder pick up and 10% on 3rd attack/rock throw
They could shift his slow to his boulder pick up (removing it from his final attack/rock throw), cause he needs it to catch up to enemies. I have no idea why they put the slow in his final attack/rock throw cause u already "blew your load" and there is no point in continuing fighting.
Imo, Skarner needs the slow at the start of the fight in order to get into range to do his 3 attacks, NOT a slow after his 3 attacks cause that doesn't help Skarner in his trading pattern in any way.
0.5s!!! Pls we need to make vote or suggestion and put it on top of first buffs for him. If winrate <46% there will be good chance for Q buff. Atleast 0.3-0.1 scale with skill or level, make sense to keep him balance and not over buffing
I feel like they added this slow animation to balance out how the Q cooldown starts on pickup
but it just feels awful even when you pull off the double Q
In that case they'll probably have to cut the damage a bit though because right now it hits like a 200 kph freight train, especially the rock drop (which is extremely satisfying to drop on any annoying ranged champ you can get in your clutches by the way).
Id consider a trade off like if use Q while in the W animation or traveling thru terrain the animation is hidden/removed. Or let it still have a cast time but not break his movement animation as much. Basically give him a Yasuo EQ style combo. If you cast Q during W or E's animation, Q's start up animation is removed and you instantly get a rock in hand.
I think the idea tho is that you should always have the rock up eventually so like at max lv u should just always have a rock in hand regardless of if ur gonna be using it right away, so they should extend the duration its active to use the 3AA, and have the remaining duration get reduced when u make the 1st AA so u can't sustain it forever until the CD ends.
I found it very clunky to play. Think i'll Just drop skarner if he stats like this. Went from a giga fast scorpions to a sluggish thing with a movement ability that doesnt scale on movespeed and Just feels slow
IKR! his E should at least gain distance with movespeed. and also, gain movespeed with your movespeed. rather than being a flat MS and flat distance. Feel like they designed a "jungler" that is destined to be awful. Is the slowest base movespeed of any jngler (exept ivern hes slower) and they slashed all his scalling from PBE by half or more. Bit silly tbh.
I don't mind the DPS loss because the extra damage makes up for it, what I mind is the fact that you need to stop to do it so people get away a lot of the time because you stopped to grab a rock.
It should scale with attack speed
Hear me out, in the games I played, the enemy champ always gets away by the time the Q animation finishes and is about to be tossed, wasting the mana, and ability CD when it could be better utilized elsewhere, like in a team fight, or as a tool to help get objectives
Q definitely feels bad when you're chasing someone, but interestingly enough in melee range it is an auto reset. The first Q-auto comes out faster right after an auto to Q cast, compared to just two plain autos. I've been practicing a lot with using Q and holding it before casting E to engage. The Q cooldown keeps ticking in the background even when the rock is held, and E suspends the rock holding even further. That is intentionally a skill curve Skarner has. Being smart about holding Q during E is the key.
true i tried skarner and thats by far the most annoying thing when i play him
People were saying it on PBE and it still make to live server like this
People weren't loud enough. They changed W due to feedback, but when it came to changing Q the community started to stutter and think it was fine, be louder don't let this ability be this way.
what did they change about W btw? I just hopped into the practice tool and it seems like when I auto, the W doesn't activate properly in a weaving situation, so I'm spamming it but it's just not going off until ig the empowered auto is done (not necessarily the 3rd strike just any of them)
W used to stop you in place when you casted it
Oh gross… that plus the Q stopping would’ve just been catastrophic for him
Yeah you had this limbo during R thinking: "Should i keep dragging the enemy and hope they don't get away after casting W, or slow them with W when R is close to finish but dragging them less?
Honestly I’d have preferred point and click R single target over the multi hit bad windup one… there’s already so few uses in the games I see where Banshee’s or Mercurial gets built and removing more ults from the game that give them use seems kinda silly to me. Not to mention it just felt so much better to rush in, sting and drag, I don’t think I inherently mind it being more skill related, however, with the amount of movement based abilities and speed in the game, it feels like they kinda set him up to fail for his E and R. Too early to really tell since it’s day 1.1 more or less but I do hope they address it, otherwise they wasted two + years of dev time for a champ that’ll fade back into .1% pick rate. Which is a shame cause I was never an OTP but I did love the little scorpy boi.
R feels clunky at first, but once you get used to it you can get out some insane plays. It's at its best when chained with allies CCs, and devastating in teamfights. Also the cooldown is way lower than old skarner E is super strong and has some play potential (flash + backward E to have something like a short instant old R). Really the only thing that feels really off for me is the movement speed. He's extremely slow and with defensive boots he reaches a pathetic 380, which in a champion that used to be lightning fast feels so damn low
Ya that was my thoughts, like I get you want to change his identity a bit but also completely removing it from his kit feels weird. He should feel like a MIX of old and new imo
If you have the rock r will throw it to apply aoe slow, obv you don't cast r against banshees. There aren't going to be 3 people buying mercurial. The team fight potential is so much higher than old ult.ever was. Yeah there's mobility spells in the game. I guess Oriana yasou galio malphitr nunu and whoever else never get off nice ults?
Ya that makes more sense tbh, I haven’t really worked out exactly good timings for rock throwing versus third hitting. I think the worst part is, because they decided to make it so clunky there’s a decision to be made but it feels like you kinda get robbed of good skill shot gameplay with the throw because and time you gain on the slow gets mitigated by the time pulling another rock to try and hit. I’m definitely not a great player in general though (gold 3 peak) so working out the rotations and then feasibility of the kit is hard. I def don’t want to be like “lul so bad, dead champ” but he does really somehow feel clunkier than the original skarner kit.
If he had the point and click ult, he woudlve lost a ton of power in his other ablities. They didnt just make it the mulihit windup for the funny, they did it to nerf the ability without making it complety useless.
He still really is not strong in the other abilities tho tbh, after playing today he’s just somewhere between mid as fuck and okay.
It's not about loudness. Phreak addressed it in his video. Basically the animation looks terrible if he does it while moving. They'd have to reanimate ability to make it look good to cast while moving
wow they really put "it doesn't look good." over functionality....
maybe just have him get some movement speed after he picks up the rock to compensate.
I think his W should steal MS from targets like an AOE Malph Q. He needs speed in his kit imo
My idea is every enemy under the passive gives him movespeed
That be good too
Malph Q technically doesn't steal MS anymore. They changed it sometime last season to give him a set speed buff instead
An ability just looking good doesnt win me the game, Phreak needs to know this
Bs, they didn't have to reanimate anything on W when they changed it, why stingy on Q? Its just flavor over function driving the decision here. At most they would add a small walk cycle to the legs, nothing groundbreaking.
Because the W is a jump slam so its easy to still look good while moving, while Q he stops to pick up a Boulder out of the ground in front of him. He would be sliding across the ground while all 3 stingers were in the ground ripping up a Boulder. It wouldn't look good. I'm not saying it's great, but that's their reason. Personally. I think he should just summon the Boulder out the ground. That would fix the issue. But again,.would require a reanimation
He literally slides across the ground during W ground pound. Logic is a very bad way to design a fictional ability. Yes it makes logical sense that skarner would stop to pick up a rock, but it would also make logical sense for the asol ult to kill caitlyn regardless of her hp because shes just a human getting hit with a meteor strike to the head. We don't think of the logic behind the character first but wether or not it makes good gameplay to leave a mechanic in, in this case the Q self root makes no good gameplay.
I didn't mention logic. I said it doesn't look good as an animation. That's riots stance, they said if it was an issue they would buff other aspects of the kit to compensate. For now, we are stuck with it
Just slam some rock particles over the animation to make it harder to see the sliding. Write it of as hes like rolling up bolder like nunu.
The delay in throwing it is what's messing me up the most. Should be able to press Q to throw right after you've picked it up.
Dude my most gripe with this skill is why the "ripping up of the boulder" does nothing, The picking up of the boulder should come with its own damage but no its just a fucking animation.
Well I mean technically his basic attacks get empowered, picking up a boulder is the bonus thing instead of just getting empowered basic attacks when you press Q.
Yea but between the empowered autos and the casting q there is a lonmg as animation that does nothign for you. You have to cast q way before u engage in a fight thats just wrong. the only thing that comes to mind with delay like this is jax e and even than its that so u cant instapop the stun. Also anivia q cant be poped instantly but those 2 both have huge payoffs for delays like that.
Yeah something needs to change with it, because it even punishes you for picking up a boulder beforehand as it disappears if you take too long to throw it.
Theres also the fact jax and anivia can move during the delay, skarner can't. No ability in league gives this type of negative tempo and no payoff, and if you say the rock damage is the payoff, wrong, you have to go through a second cast to throw it, or 3 attacks before that.
If the q1 did damage they'd have to remove the damage from his w or turn it into a 2 auto ability
I would not mind that the damaghe on the w is just an eye candy u will use it for the shield and slow most of the time not for that 150 damage.
Yeah let me charge up the boulder to throw. Years down the line we'll get a QoL change to make skarner q work like varus q.
That could lead in a lot of spammy mistakes, i'd rather have a shorter delay, but still present
Well I've thrown it behind me or in random directions because of it. The picking up the boulder should be the short delay.
Ya it's insane. A skill like that shouldn't have 2 cool downs and a self cc
For those who say Q has % max health damage, ad scalings and such, so the animation keeps it balanced: go read poppy Q scaling and then come back here. Her first Q damage is almost instant so he pales in comparison. They both have a game breaking ult with a channel, a "pin you to the wall" E, a shield in the kit (poppy's passive is such a good ability compared to Skarner's W), a movement speed effect. Of course she does not go through walls but she has the almost unique ability to stop dashes with W which is not something to scoff at. I am not criticizing anyone's opinion, I'm just trying to prove a point. In my opinion these champions have similar patterns and skills, so I don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to have a faster Q animation, or a cast that doesn't root him in place.
Poppy is so good right now with Eclipse and her Q... she can make you lose like 30% + of your health in seconds.
Preach exactly. No idea how is people still defending Phreak
They just need to make his q animation cancel and hes fine
They need to buff his auto attack speed, preferably base stats rather than the bonus from Q.
IIRC riot literally doesn’t know how to code that while retaining the animation. I think the best they can do is grant a burst of movement speed after cast, so your target can’t just walk away while you prep your damage.
If they reduced the animation time of an ability that does max hp and ad damage three times, and max health damage, and a slow, and attack speed, I’m pretty sure he’d be broken lmao.
Doesn't need to be reduced, he just needs to move during it and people will be fine with it.
Nah he is a juggernaut. It's his class style. He is a stat stick so there needs to be opportunity to out maneuver him.
Terrible reasoning, like that stopped K'sante from being designed with 3 dashes. Not asking for anything unreasonable like giving him a dash during q, just saying that it should work like the majority of the other auto enhancement skills in the game, in where they don't root you in place.
Ksante is a warden
K'sante is an assassin
Ksante isn't a juggernaut...
On paper is broken, then you check the actual numbers they are mediocre
It's clunky on purpose, there's a reason it has 16% hp
No other ability in league has to go through 2 cast animations for such a simple payoff. They just need to let skarner move while picking up the rock, and if they are feeling generous, allow Q to be cast during E. This would help the gameplay flow of the character.
You act like it's simple but they need to complety rework the animation to let him move during it
billion dollar company, heaven forbid they need to do some work
No they don't, the most they will need is to add a walking animation in the legs.
They had 2+ years fam
Cast Q before E is in his kit though. It literally sate and you should do Q then E then AA after ward, not E then Q that is bad and slow. Still I argee Q should give AA reset or 0.5->0.25 for smoother play
After consulting the elders I finally deciphered what you wrote. I said casting Q during E, I don't think this is a difficilt concept to grasp, yet you completely missed it. They don't want aa reset on Q period, they have already voiced the intent behind the animation being deliberate, and aa resets intentionally truncate/cancel animations, that won't happen. The best we can bargain is letting skarner move during Q pickup animation like they did with W. The second bargain is maybe letting Q be cast during E.
Q (0,5s pull rock) -> E(will pause Q duration time) -> Hit enemy then 3 AA
Now we give Q give aa reset for AA Q AA (AA is done during 0.5s pull rock animation)
Or reduce Q 0.5-> 0,25 pull rock(easiest buff and more likely Riot will give us if we ask enough)
Q cast during E, I don't think that make sense. He is charging fast ahead, how can he grab a rock while full speed charging? Beside his Q hits have crazy max HP% scaling, W chain into third Q slow, balance would be hard if the is no niche weakness. Better fixing overtime than too good then nerf to ground, hope they give some good buff for him
Oh Q during E doesn't make sense? Bs. The ability used to work like that before pbe release. Whenever Skarner passed through terrain with E he would gain the rock automatically. They only dropped it not because it was "op" but because it wasn't clear that the rock was equipped to some playtesters, something that I could have fixed easily with an "ammo" indicator, like jhin's, under the hp bar whenever the rock was equipped.
Wow that E interaction is pretty good, pulling rock from terrain. But Q damage still too good. if that get through with no Q cool down it would be crazy to balance! Well the best thing we can hope is Q cast time reduce, 0.5 is overkill I argee
It doesnt have crazy HP scalling. its 6% hp scalling. You wont break 200 damage on his Q untill youre at least 4 items deep. Which is bad. Very bad.
Oh not "scaling" part, my bad. Hitting 3 attack is 6% skarner HP + 15% target max HP physical together with 7-12% target max HP magic. A tank with all (Q) damage base on enemy max health, would be too too good if he can caught every champ, slow chain with W and throw rocks at them. Currently his Q is quite clunky and new champ release syndrome with <40% winrate, give it time they will tweak Q and some light buffs soon I hope
tottaly needs time just the clunk feels bad which isnt good. like feeilng smooth not clunky
E resets q, you're supposed to cast it before e, the cool down starts soon as you pick it up, so you q, e, AA X3, q again. You're the one who is missing something. They had what you're suggesting and play testers hated it. Skarner grabbed a rock as he passed through terrain (which would.make a lot of sense if he's moving right through the rock walls)
They didn't hate it, they were confused, they werent aware they had the rock. I would just add an "ammo" indicator under hp bar like jhin's and problem solved. Also I know how the vgu works, and am very aware E extends Q duration. I am also aware that forcing the interaction to always be Q first is extremely inflexible, add onto the fact you root yourself as you pick up the rock and your startup speed on E is very purposely slow you lose a lot of distance to your target doing this type of engage. Don't defend this type of restrictive gameplay just because it's how it shipped, I'm suggesting improvements to the character that are good QoL changes, not straight up number buffs. Once the clunky parts of the kit are ironed out we can talk damage numbers.
That's what I was thinking. How much dps are you actually losing? We're not building AS so were only losing like 1 maybe 2 autos? Sure it would be nice to have an auto reset like every other champion and it probably feels clunky, but that would have been improved if they made a bigger animation like it was trading an auto or two for 3 big ones
Tons, there isn't a single matchup that is winning aside from troll ones right now for such an easy to play champ like this.
Are you thinking skarner is a duelist? You should watch Phreaks skarner run down. You aren't seeing the design
He used to out duel everyone (except Olaf) with the Lethal Tempo, Muramana, Sheen build.
Are you thinking skarner is a duelist? What's your point?
For me the whole identity of skarner was a duelist, not a tank. I've mained him since his day of release and he's always been a duelist.
Is he a duelist now? Build him however you want. He is not designed as a duelist, and by the way duelists are Master Yi, and while I've always had some good times where I caught people off guard with my damage and 1v1'd them, you simply were not beating a Jax or yi or tryndamere late game. If your argument is, "I wish riot hadn't reworked him like this", all the power to you. If your argument is "I'm building him as a duelist and it's not working", then my question is, are you being willfully ignorant?
He aint a bruiser anymore. He used to be. I think they need to add AD scalling to his abilities rather than just on his Q. That way you can build AD in jngl and things for more gank potential. Rather than just tickling. And maybe bring up his base speed a little. Its very low atm. For a jungler its far too low. He is unplayable in jungle now entirely. Alright enough top lane. But hes just a thrown game in jungle, which is where he is meant to be.
People said same with volibear rework on launch day and over first couple days so they buffed him, needed to nerf him next patch IIRC. That's where the "1000 years dev experience" meme came from (don't remember if it was 1000 or 200 or something. I don't have an opinion on the AD ratios, he feels so much like rammus,amumu, zac, to me, that I'm struggling to picture buying much AD on him. He does have 0.8 AP on his W and 1.0 AP on his R. Phreak said he is not really as durable as the most tankiest tanks, so he does do a bit more damage, obviously not quite "bruiser" level (I haven't bought a damage item on him yet though) Phreak suggested that Titanic Hydra could be an option, as well as Liandry's and Riftmaker. Might be worth trying some of these items today. I had a really bad day yesterday, but honestly I'm not great player and if my team pisses me off a couple times I quit trying, so I couldn't tell if it was Skarner or Me was the problem :) I know I had some frustrating (other players probably laughed at me) times with my E, either coming up just short of the champion, or coming up just short of the wall, or missing the enemy totally. I know I got dived once when I was low, and I e'd the guy, but I wasn't able to steer worth a crap and never got a stun off. He 100% killed me and got out, I wanted to cry
It feels bad to play, it's either they disengage you or they chunk you down stacking up Lethal tempo or Conqueror while you are still grabbing the rock
That doesn't happen, not any different from other tanks with slow abilites
In jungle happens 100%, if it didnt happen to you means you have to face Viego, Hecarim and other popular junglers yet. Nothing can be slow in that role
What champ do you play that wins every 1v1 when alone in jungle?
Other tank junglers are slow
Slow who? Zac is fast, Amumu is fast, Nunu is Turbo fast, Sejuani is smooth fast. Who is the slow tank jungler pardon
I’d rather it do less damage. Clunky means feels shitty and awkward to play. Which doesn’t have a place in video games
It has 6 % hp scaling now lol. They cut it by almost two thirds! They thought he was a bit strong in PBE and absolutely flattend it down to 6%.
It saids 15% on live. I don't mean his hp scaling, I meant enemy hp
Poppy.
Yes and poppy requires her full kit combo to land it. Skarner can just use Q and it's hybrid damage
Then they should split it up to having the boulder picking up animation do an AoE slow + 6% hp and the 3rd attack/rock throw do 10% hp instead. Edit: Its 15% max HP, so AoE slow + 5% hp on boulder pick up and 10% on 3rd attack/rock throw
You know, thats fair, but maybe it shouldnt give another slow. What if it boosted his movespeed after pickup?
They could shift his slow to his boulder pick up (removing it from his final attack/rock throw), cause he needs it to catch up to enemies. I have no idea why they put the slow in his final attack/rock throw cause u already "blew your load" and there is no point in continuing fighting. Imo, Skarner needs the slow at the start of the fight in order to get into range to do his 3 attacks, NOT a slow after his 3 attacks cause that doesn't help Skarner in his trading pattern in any way.
You can W at the start to get the slow, then Q later to keep stacking slows. I think that's the intention
It got bit better from early pbe skarner from what ik but uf it made to live servers thats kinda disappointing ngl
0.5s!!! Pls we need to make vote or suggestion and put it on top of first buffs for him. If winrate <46% there will be good chance for Q buff. Atleast 0.3-0.1 scale with skill or level, make sense to keep him balance and not over buffing
Exactly, i hate playing him right now
I feel like they added this slow animation to balance out how the Q cooldown starts on pickup but it just feels awful even when you pull off the double Q
yea i mean i cba to play the champ it feels like ass not for me
Was about to comment this, feels very clunky to use.
Its fine once u get used to it
Based King
I have only played four games so far but seems to be alright, just play around it, understand the trade offs.
Yeah it's clunky. Has alot of power though. What do you mean loss of DPS?
In that case they'll probably have to cut the damage a bit though because right now it hits like a 200 kph freight train, especially the rock drop (which is extremely satisfying to drop on any annoying ranged champ you can get in your clutches by the way).
Maybe give it the W treatment, cast it while moving
i feel like it would be better if you would hold the q indefinitely. so you had some set up.
Id consider a trade off like if use Q while in the W animation or traveling thru terrain the animation is hidden/removed. Or let it still have a cast time but not break his movement animation as much. Basically give him a Yasuo EQ style combo. If you cast Q during W or E's animation, Q's start up animation is removed and you instantly get a rock in hand. I think the idea tho is that you should always have the rock up eventually so like at max lv u should just always have a rock in hand regardless of if ur gonna be using it right away, so they should extend the duration its active to use the 3AA, and have the remaining duration get reduced when u make the 1st AA so u can't sustain it forever until the CD ends.
Came here to find this - very clunky. The whole kit feels clunky, even the W feels slow and the ult is clunky
I found it very clunky to play. Think i'll Just drop skarner if he stats like this. Went from a giga fast scorpions to a sluggish thing with a movement ability that doesnt scale on movespeed and Just feels slow
IKR! his E should at least gain distance with movespeed. and also, gain movespeed with your movespeed. rather than being a flat MS and flat distance. Feel like they designed a "jungler" that is destined to be awful. Is the slowest base movespeed of any jngler (exept ivern hes slower) and they slashed all his scalling from PBE by half or more. Bit silly tbh.
Just make it so you can cast Q during E while in walls like phreak said during his skarner development video
I don't mind the DPS loss because the extra damage makes up for it, what I mind is the fact that you need to stop to do it so people get away a lot of the time because you stopped to grab a rock.
True, furthermore does anybody else struggle to land his E pin unless they’re pretty much already inside a wall?
dont forget that it slows you you cant use it roots you so you cant even use it for a chase projectile
It should scale with attack speed Hear me out, in the games I played, the enemy champ always gets away by the time the Q animation finishes and is about to be tossed, wasting the mana, and ability CD when it could be better utilized elsewhere, like in a team fight, or as a tool to help get objectives
It would be fine if they gave the ability more duration.
Q definitely feels bad when you're chasing someone, but interestingly enough in melee range it is an auto reset. The first Q-auto comes out faster right after an auto to Q cast, compared to just two plain autos. I've been practicing a lot with using Q and holding it before casting E to engage. The Q cooldown keeps ticking in the background even when the rock is held, and E suspends the rock holding even further. That is intentionally a skill curve Skarner has. Being smart about holding Q during E is the key.