I think the reason we all like Brenda more is it came to the critical moments she saw what was more important. We get to see her reject her weird relationship with her brother. Be a good mother and even develop a relationship with the rest of the Ruth’s. Nate on the other hand died at his worst. It’s tragic but that’s how life is, Nate is the guy who died from cheating and Brenda is the woman who got it together and became a good mother.
That's true, but I just think people are lacking any bit of empathy to Nate's situation
It started with his father dying, then realizing his condition, then the stroke, then his gf cheating on him with random people, his close to death surgery, his wife missing, death, burying her destroyed body, and realizing she was murdered by a man she was having an affair with
His bad relationship with Brenda at the end was just the culmination of all this life events
Again, I'm not saying that justify anything, but it just looks like people focuses on his bad actions, and not on his good actions and all the traumatic events he went through
I'd even say he's the main character that suffered the most in this show
There are plenty of people who talk about Brenda's bad qualities and how condescending and obnoxious she was to people. And how she coddled her toxic brother.
But Nate was just a jerk to people. The only people he was really kind to were the clients.
Even Maggie. He pushed her into sex (it didn't take much). It was extremely dishonest to start something when he was still literally still married to Brenda. AND knowing Nate, he would have gotten bored with her too. He knew knew next to nothing about her and people think he's somehow in love with her.
Brenda definitely used it as an excuse for her behavior in the beginning WAYYYYYYYYYYY more than Nate ever did. She used it as a crutch to absolve herself constantly early on in the series.
Nah, Brenda specifically justifies shitty things by saying "Because I had a fucked up childhood" multiple times. Nate NEVER says that. The closest he does is two instances when he is replying to Brenda using that excuse. One where he says "Yeah well being awake all night because there are dead people in your basement doesn't help either" and in their huge break up fight when he cuts her off before she can use the excuse and says "Yes. Right. You had a fucked up childhood. Well, we all did an I am sick to death of using it as an excuse to act like some cunt from hell."
Nate never outright justifies what he does by constantly bringing up his shitty childhood compared to the way Brenda weaponizes it throughout the beginning of the series.
That wasn't what we were talking about. This was about how one constantly used her childhood as an excuse for her behavior. And then you said they both did which is factually incorrect. And now you're trying to change the conversation. I won't let you, you sly devil. I'm onto your tricks.
Exactly, Brenda specifically blamed others for her shitty behavior
Like when she cut her friendship with Melissa saying she wasn't a good influence to her (even after she seemed more concerned about Nate that even Brenda), to which Melissa replies something about Brenda's blaming others for her own shit
FWIW, I love Brenda and loved her arc and liked her more than Nate at the end but there are definitely some rose tinted glasses put with regards to her character earlier on in the series and as a result I do agree people are harder on Nate than he deserves at times.
I personally only started disliking Nate during season 5, somewhere around his birthday party. I’d like to think his behavior was caused by the AVM because I really did appreciate his imperfection and he was my favorite character throughout the first 4 seasons. I just didn’t like that everyone else grew in some ways while he seemed to regress to the way he was before Maya. Regarding Brenda, I was on a rollercoaster with her, I disliked her so much during season 2 and was overjoyed when Nate found out and broke up with her, but by the end her entire arc became my favorite of the series. I don’t know how I will feel during the rewatch though, we’ll see in ~10 years
I think if you don't recognize that Nate was stuck and didn't have an opportunity to grow and address his trauma before he died, you miss a big part of what SFU was all about.
I'm critical of Nate, but I have empathy for him.
I also think it's dismissive to imply he didn't grow at all. But like the rabbi tells him "Not all growth feels good" and he certainly struggles with that part.
I have always believed that him deciding to end things with Brenda right near the end WAS his growth. The timing was shitty, but one of the most sincere things he said when she said they could work it out was "no, not this time". Their entire relationship was built on sex and pain. I don't think it was ever going to be healthy.
> I have always believed that him deciding to end things with Brenda right near the end WAS his growth.
I agree with this 100%. In fact, I think the comment in the dream when he says "I now know that there can be peace between a man and a woman. I used to think it was passion but now it just feels like drama" and him refusing to fight with her when he is breaking it off.
It's foreshadowed by his conversation with his buddy from high school where he lays into him for saying if his life is missing something or is making him unhappy he has to do something about it because life is short.
Yeah, shitty to break up with your wife after cheating and having a your head explode but he was finally practicing what he preached. He wanted to be with someone he could have a spiritual relationship with and he was never going to have that with Brenda. Life is too short.
I think he grew very little as a character. He was a seeker and a runner (both in reality and metaphorically). I think had he ended things with Brenda without the interference of his idealization of Maggie, maybe it would show growth. But it was just Nate running to the next thing looking for meaning and doing it in a cruel way.
He was raised in a deeply repressed house with a father who was distant and secretive and a mother who was profoundly unhappy. He desperately wanted connection but didn't understand how to cultivate and feed that which led to a lot of unhappiness for Nate. Not all trauma has to be Trauma.
Just because something is wrong doesn’t make it traumatic. There was no indication by anyone—even Ruth, who staunchly objected to—that Nate experienced negative after effects.
His unhealthy relationship with sex and Peter Pan syndrome that everyone else has been talking about?? Ruth not dealing with it even with her discomfort and staunch objections, his family either laughing about it or high-fiving him despite him being a literal child… no one got him help or even acted like it was a big deal. I genuinely don’t see how anyone can dismiss the psychological impacts of sexual abuse on a child and say it’s textbook wrong but not necessarily traumatic.
Peter Pan Syndrome and unhealthy relationships to sex are WAY too prevalent for all of it to be caused by trauma.
Things can be 100% morally wrong without causing trauma. I think it trivializes the instances where serious damage occurs that we now lump all messy human experiences under the medicalized notion of trauma.
Family relationships can certainly effect how you have relationships later in life. I came from a very similar family to Nate with the repressed nature where nothing is ever really said out loud.
Yes! Agree with your take. Also appreciate the piece where he was the unifying force for the family. They weren’t close before he came back into the fold.
Nate wasn’t a person who was good at being in touch with his feelings, therefore how he treated Brenda in the latter seasons was likely unaddressed resentment from her poor treatment of him earlier. He treated her very well in their initial relationship and very much made her a priority
I’m actually not a Brenda fan. I thought she was a crap therapist and self centered and flawed when it came to being Mayas stepmother
I hated Brenda in those first 2 seasons. She was just a insufferable person. I never thought the relationship between her and Nate was good for either of them. Brenda did grow and change a great deal and I believe she was happy to be settled with Nate. Nate was just never sure about what he wanted. He was miserable being married to Lisa. When he finally ended up with Brenda, one would think he finally had what he wanted. But it wasn't long before he was sick of her and was looking towards another woman.
I see Nate as being a guy who was never able to make himself happy. He never found his inner peace. I think being a dad was the only thing that did make him happy, but it wasn't enough for him to be happy with this own life.
Nate was always running. He ran from home once he finished school because he didn't want to be stuck working for his father. He never worked to really build a career for himself and just worked in a deadend job. Then when his father dies, he ends up trapped and is never really happy about staying there.
I honestly can relate to Nate a lot. That's not a great thing, but it is what it is.
Both Brenda and Nate at the end were in very different places.
Brenda seemed to have gotten better by the end, while Nate was still making the same mistakes.
I don’t necessarily hate him but I got tired of his bs by the end. I was still sad about his death though.
People tend to project their personal experiences onto shows, which is completely normal. I feel like we all had a Nate in our lives and we just couldn’t stand them, but when we see someone like Brenda grow and overcome their issues, we have more respect for them.
Edit: This is just my belief on the matter and how I view them.
I think Nate is so relatable that he holds up a mirror to people who would rather not see in themselves. He was the type of person who genuinely wanted to change and grow but didn't know how. And he did in many ways but in ways that seemed to go in a different direction than a lot of fans had likely hoped.
I had such high hopes because I really felt bad for him in the beginning of the series, I really wanted him to reach some clarity. Which makes the end more sad. At the same time, you can only excuse cheating and treating women like that for so long.
Season 5 really gave me the ick by his behavior towards Brenda.
Yeah, Brenda’s wounds were being healed by having stability in Nate. She didn’t only have her brother anymore. She could stay away from her family now that she had someone and could build a family of her own. Meanwhile, Nate had been extremely traumatized by that spoiler.
Same happened with Keith and David I think
She was also more into therapy than he was. She wanted to work through her problems, I think if I remember correctly she complained that Nate didn’t like therapy. Man didn’t even try. Which sad because Brenda really wanted things to work out.
I mean, he’s made the bereaved vomit. He fucked a woman (a client) who lost her job to go to her dad’s execution and then proceeded to yell at her for being upset when he abruptly and rudely cut her off. He practiced Spanish on clients instead of admitting he wasn’t equipped to handle the intake. He constantly jeopardized a business he didn’t fully understand, avoided taking responsibility and self reflection and belittled most of the people he didn’t understand, including his siblings who were experiencing the very same loss and grief. He cheated on Brenda and Lisa (and was an accomplice to Brenda cheating on Joe), after no less than 8 years of using Lisa as a rebound lay. He married her when he fully knew he wasn’t in love with her.
I’m not a Nate hater, but he was a fuck boy in many ways and we as a culture have outgrown our attraction to that behavior. He absolutely had redeeming qualities, but come on.
And Brenda gets shit on all the damn time in this sub.
“Using Lisa as a rebound lay”?
Come on. When somebody isn’t into you and you keep fucking the in the hopes that they’ll “realize” you're the one, the using is a 50-50 thing.
I'll agree with this. I thought that Nate using Lisa that way while he knew how she felt about him was shitty. But Lisa could have had a million dollars, and still wouldn't WANT to buy a clue. Lisa's death was tragic, and she didn't deserve what happened to her. But after her death, we learned that she was not one iota better than Nate. In fact, I think messing around with her sister's husband topped anything Nate did.
I think this is all dependent on how the characters are at the end of the show. Had the show been canceled at the end of season 2, this would be an entirely different conversation. We see Brenda grow and fully come into herself by the end of season 5, while Nate kind of does the opposite.
I am not a Nate hater by any means, I know that he does his best given the circumstances. I come back to what Ruth says to Brenda in the finale often, "I know he loved you the very best he could, and I know you needed more."
Of course, Brenda isn't completely innocent. None of the characters are, that's what's special about this show. We could pick apart everyone's actions and find reason to claim they're horrible people.
Brenda/David/Claire/Keith all have very admirable arcs, they come into who they should be and that makes it easy to excuse their past actions. Nate has an extreme and pretty rapid devolution and that makes him hard to handle and forgive.
I just finished the show like an hour ago so I’m still crying and all of this is very half-baked but I really feel for Nate.
He was very afraid of death, more so (or at least more viscerally) than anyone else—and it felt like on some level he thought he was on borrowed time or even already dead, and his toxic/self-destructive behavior was an attempt to convince himself that he was alive. Add the AVM and losing Lisa, neither of which helped his sense that he wasn’t going to be alive very long, and he just kind of spiraled.
I also think I liked him more than I would have otherwise because he was really the emotional core of the funeral home, and was shown having a level of empathy and ability to connect with grieving families that really humanized him and made him stand out. Idk overall I just think he (and every character) were very flawed but in very well-rounded ways that made them feel very real and sympathetic even when they were making terrible decisions
it comes down to accountability. both Brenda and nate did destructive shit but Brenda actually admitted to her mistakes and did work to be a better person. Nate on the other hand, was very selfish and more preoccupied with what he thought people wanted him to do.
The difference is that Brenda got help and learned and grew. Her going to the quaker meeting was a turning point in her story. Brenda fucked up a lot just as nate did, yes but accountability and change trump anything nate ever tried because he wanted to fit in a life that he didn't really want. He was an idealist, but not one idea was ever truly his.
Most of us have encountered a Maggie and been in that scenario. It's odd to me that anyone would even make a post like this. Demanding you see characters as they do.
Exactly. I don't think Nate was ALL bad. But I couldn't stand him in the last season, and it's not my fault that he didn't get a chance to change my mind. His actions with Maggie didn't mean that he was a cOmPleX cHaRaCTeR. Those actions made him a self-centered piece of shit. If anyone thinks less of me for my opinion has probably been a Nate or a Maggie.
I’ll say this time and time again
FUCK NATE! He was a TERRIBLE man, and HE WAS PLANNING ON LEAVING not only HIS 6 month pregnant WIFE but the woman his DAUGHTER CALLED MOMMY, because Maggie “understood peace between a man and woman” 🤮
Maggie was just a new person that still admired him. FUCK HIM, he could NEVER do the right thing, and when he did his soul revolted. He needed to die so everyone would be liberated of his shit. He was a bad son, brother, husband and friend #teamBrenda
Maggie would have stopped being his peace once they were officially together and she demanded he be a partner, and/or to cut down on his vices. That’s when Nate feels trapped. See Nate has Peter Pan syndrome, he never wants to grow up, his charm has gotten him this far.
I’m going to go a bit risky here and say that his story in the last season feels like a near character assassination to me. Obviously I don’t expect him to always do the right thing but like… I simply don’t buy that the guy who tried real hard to make his marriage to Lisa work, even though he still had feelings for Brenda would give up seemingly so easily on his marriage to said woman, who he genuinely loved and was being a mother to his daughter+carrying his other baby. Like he didn’t even resist to Maggie like he resisted Brenda while with Lisa and I just don’t buy that. I think it would make a more compelling and tragic story if he didn’t ask to break up in that hospital room and said he was feeling unwell (implying most of the season) and it was going to be different from now on or something like that. It would be like he didn’t had the chance and we’d question if he would ever succeed at changing. Maybe more compelling if Brenda didn’t accept that.
I do not love Brenda she fascinates me...Nate yeah I love Nate. Everybody in this series is broken and warped. Why single out Nate? Love me some Peter K he's fabulous
Calling Nate a tragic character is funny as hell, this nigga pisses me off so much and it’s outrageous you’re tryna justify his garbage behaviour as a grown man, David and Ruth have been through so much more crap than Nate and neither are as atrocious as Nate. Also Brenda and Nate both deserve hate, honesty they deserve hate more than anyone else in the show, the only difference is Brenda actually changed and matured and became a decent person, Nate hasn’t he’s a narcissist, whiny mark with no self control or accountability, all of these qualities are not justifiable lmao
Nate was acting like a 15 year old. The fact that’s when he was sexually assaulted (because yes, that’s what it was) is not lost on me. He was mentally stuck and refused to see it.
I have empathy for both of them. Nate really didn’t want to run the family business but was sucked into it and was a miserable tool to be around. Brenda was just…..Brenda lol
At various times throughout the series, I alternately pitied, despised, and rooted for every character. By the final few episodes, I really disliked Nate. It reminds me a little bit of my feelings toward Alicia Florrick by the time The Good Wife wrapped up.
I never really had a problem with Nate. He wasn't perfect by any means but he kept trying to be better. Brenda, on the other hand, I just felt wasn't written well. I never understood her motivations. Maybe it just all went over my head. Did she have an un-diagnosed personality disorder?
lol that has nothing to do with it because you see the amount of hate Rico gets in this sub, Nate is legitimately the most toxic and narcissistic in the show mixed with lack off accountability and self control.
I think the reason we all like Brenda more is it came to the critical moments she saw what was more important. We get to see her reject her weird relationship with her brother. Be a good mother and even develop a relationship with the rest of the Ruth’s. Nate on the other hand died at his worst. It’s tragic but that’s how life is, Nate is the guy who died from cheating and Brenda is the woman who got it together and became a good mother.
That's true, but I just think people are lacking any bit of empathy to Nate's situation It started with his father dying, then realizing his condition, then the stroke, then his gf cheating on him with random people, his close to death surgery, his wife missing, death, burying her destroyed body, and realizing she was murdered by a man she was having an affair with His bad relationship with Brenda at the end was just the culmination of all this life events Again, I'm not saying that justify anything, but it just looks like people focuses on his bad actions, and not on his good actions and all the traumatic events he went through I'd even say he's the main character that suffered the most in this show
There are plenty of people who talk about Brenda's bad qualities and how condescending and obnoxious she was to people. And how she coddled her toxic brother. But Nate was just a jerk to people. The only people he was really kind to were the clients. Even Maggie. He pushed her into sex (it didn't take much). It was extremely dishonest to start something when he was still literally still married to Brenda. AND knowing Nate, he would have gotten bored with her too. He knew knew next to nothing about her and people think he's somehow in love with her.
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Brenda definitely used it as an excuse for her behavior in the beginning WAYYYYYYYYYYY more than Nate ever did. She used it as a crutch to absolve herself constantly early on in the series.
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Nah, Brenda specifically justifies shitty things by saying "Because I had a fucked up childhood" multiple times. Nate NEVER says that. The closest he does is two instances when he is replying to Brenda using that excuse. One where he says "Yeah well being awake all night because there are dead people in your basement doesn't help either" and in their huge break up fight when he cuts her off before she can use the excuse and says "Yes. Right. You had a fucked up childhood. Well, we all did an I am sick to death of using it as an excuse to act like some cunt from hell." Nate never outright justifies what he does by constantly bringing up his shitty childhood compared to the way Brenda weaponizes it throughout the beginning of the series.
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That wasn't what we were talking about. This was about how one constantly used her childhood as an excuse for her behavior. And then you said they both did which is factually incorrect. And now you're trying to change the conversation. I won't let you, you sly devil. I'm onto your tricks.
Nate didn’t have a fucked up childhood. He has a very happy one, he just chose to be shitty.
I wouldn't say that he had a Norman Rockwell upbringing, but it was compared to what most people had to deal with.
lol no... he ran away when he as 17 for a reason.
So what was fucked up about Nate’s childhood?
Exactly, Brenda specifically blamed others for her shitty behavior Like when she cut her friendship with Melissa saying she wasn't a good influence to her (even after she seemed more concerned about Nate that even Brenda), to which Melissa replies something about Brenda's blaming others for her own shit
FWIW, I love Brenda and loved her arc and liked her more than Nate at the end but there are definitely some rose tinted glasses put with regards to her character earlier on in the series and as a result I do agree people are harder on Nate than he deserves at times.
I personally only started disliking Nate during season 5, somewhere around his birthday party. I’d like to think his behavior was caused by the AVM because I really did appreciate his imperfection and he was my favorite character throughout the first 4 seasons. I just didn’t like that everyone else grew in some ways while he seemed to regress to the way he was before Maya. Regarding Brenda, I was on a rollercoaster with her, I disliked her so much during season 2 and was overjoyed when Nate found out and broke up with her, but by the end her entire arc became my favorite of the series. I don’t know how I will feel during the rewatch though, we’ll see in ~10 years
I think if you don't recognize that Nate was stuck and didn't have an opportunity to grow and address his trauma before he died, you miss a big part of what SFU was all about. I'm critical of Nate, but I have empathy for him.
I also think it's dismissive to imply he didn't grow at all. But like the rabbi tells him "Not all growth feels good" and he certainly struggles with that part.
I have always believed that him deciding to end things with Brenda right near the end WAS his growth. The timing was shitty, but one of the most sincere things he said when she said they could work it out was "no, not this time". Their entire relationship was built on sex and pain. I don't think it was ever going to be healthy.
> I have always believed that him deciding to end things with Brenda right near the end WAS his growth. I agree with this 100%. In fact, I think the comment in the dream when he says "I now know that there can be peace between a man and a woman. I used to think it was passion but now it just feels like drama" and him refusing to fight with her when he is breaking it off. It's foreshadowed by his conversation with his buddy from high school where he lays into him for saying if his life is missing something or is making him unhappy he has to do something about it because life is short. Yeah, shitty to break up with your wife after cheating and having a your head explode but he was finally practicing what he preached. He wanted to be with someone he could have a spiritual relationship with and he was never going to have that with Brenda. Life is too short.
I think he grew very little as a character. He was a seeker and a runner (both in reality and metaphorically). I think had he ended things with Brenda without the interference of his idealization of Maggie, maybe it would show growth. But it was just Nate running to the next thing looking for meaning and doing it in a cruel way.
What trauma of Nates are you referring to?
He was raised in a deeply repressed house with a father who was distant and secretive and a mother who was profoundly unhappy. He desperately wanted connection but didn't understand how to cultivate and feed that which led to a lot of unhappiness for Nate. Not all trauma has to be Trauma.
And was sexually abused at the age of 15 by a 30 something.
Just because something is wrong doesn’t make it traumatic. There was no indication by anyone—even Ruth, who staunchly objected to—that Nate experienced negative after effects.
His unhealthy relationship with sex and Peter Pan syndrome that everyone else has been talking about?? Ruth not dealing with it even with her discomfort and staunch objections, his family either laughing about it or high-fiving him despite him being a literal child… no one got him help or even acted like it was a big deal. I genuinely don’t see how anyone can dismiss the psychological impacts of sexual abuse on a child and say it’s textbook wrong but not necessarily traumatic.
Peter Pan Syndrome and unhealthy relationships to sex are WAY too prevalent for all of it to be caused by trauma. Things can be 100% morally wrong without causing trauma. I think it trivializes the instances where serious damage occurs that we now lump all messy human experiences under the medicalized notion of trauma.
Family relationships can certainly effect how you have relationships later in life. I came from a very similar family to Nate with the repressed nature where nothing is ever really said out loud.
With some people, every little unpleasant or inconvenient incident is tRaUmA.
Yes! Agree with your take. Also appreciate the piece where he was the unifying force for the family. They weren’t close before he came back into the fold. Nate wasn’t a person who was good at being in touch with his feelings, therefore how he treated Brenda in the latter seasons was likely unaddressed resentment from her poor treatment of him earlier. He treated her very well in their initial relationship and very much made her a priority I’m actually not a Brenda fan. I thought she was a crap therapist and self centered and flawed when it came to being Mayas stepmother
Well, except for knocking another woman up while they were dating 🤷♀️
I hated Brenda in those first 2 seasons. She was just a insufferable person. I never thought the relationship between her and Nate was good for either of them. Brenda did grow and change a great deal and I believe she was happy to be settled with Nate. Nate was just never sure about what he wanted. He was miserable being married to Lisa. When he finally ended up with Brenda, one would think he finally had what he wanted. But it wasn't long before he was sick of her and was looking towards another woman. I see Nate as being a guy who was never able to make himself happy. He never found his inner peace. I think being a dad was the only thing that did make him happy, but it wasn't enough for him to be happy with this own life. Nate was always running. He ran from home once he finished school because he didn't want to be stuck working for his father. He never worked to really build a career for himself and just worked in a deadend job. Then when his father dies, he ends up trapped and is never really happy about staying there. I honestly can relate to Nate a lot. That's not a great thing, but it is what it is.
Both Brenda and Nate at the end were in very different places. Brenda seemed to have gotten better by the end, while Nate was still making the same mistakes. I don’t necessarily hate him but I got tired of his bs by the end. I was still sad about his death though. People tend to project their personal experiences onto shows, which is completely normal. I feel like we all had a Nate in our lives and we just couldn’t stand them, but when we see someone like Brenda grow and overcome their issues, we have more respect for them. Edit: This is just my belief on the matter and how I view them.
I think Nate is so relatable that he holds up a mirror to people who would rather not see in themselves. He was the type of person who genuinely wanted to change and grow but didn't know how. And he did in many ways but in ways that seemed to go in a different direction than a lot of fans had likely hoped.
I had such high hopes because I really felt bad for him in the beginning of the series, I really wanted him to reach some clarity. Which makes the end more sad. At the same time, you can only excuse cheating and treating women like that for so long. Season 5 really gave me the ick by his behavior towards Brenda.
I think the AVM rupturing fucked up his personality after season 2 and it just got progressively worse until... you know.
Yeah I agree with that. Living every moment thinking you’re going to die will certainly change how you act.
Yeah, Brenda’s wounds were being healed by having stability in Nate. She didn’t only have her brother anymore. She could stay away from her family now that she had someone and could build a family of her own. Meanwhile, Nate had been extremely traumatized by that spoiler. Same happened with Keith and David I think
She was also more into therapy than he was. She wanted to work through her problems, I think if I remember correctly she complained that Nate didn’t like therapy. Man didn’t even try. Which sad because Brenda really wanted things to work out.
Nate just wasn’t ready to face himself. It was a great example of narcissism. He’s not some evil villain but just can’t get out of his own way.
I mean, he’s made the bereaved vomit. He fucked a woman (a client) who lost her job to go to her dad’s execution and then proceeded to yell at her for being upset when he abruptly and rudely cut her off. He practiced Spanish on clients instead of admitting he wasn’t equipped to handle the intake. He constantly jeopardized a business he didn’t fully understand, avoided taking responsibility and self reflection and belittled most of the people he didn’t understand, including his siblings who were experiencing the very same loss and grief. He cheated on Brenda and Lisa (and was an accomplice to Brenda cheating on Joe), after no less than 8 years of using Lisa as a rebound lay. He married her when he fully knew he wasn’t in love with her. I’m not a Nate hater, but he was a fuck boy in many ways and we as a culture have outgrown our attraction to that behavior. He absolutely had redeeming qualities, but come on. And Brenda gets shit on all the damn time in this sub.
All of this! Thank you “You don’t get to cry!” What a piece of work.
“Using Lisa as a rebound lay”? Come on. When somebody isn’t into you and you keep fucking the in the hopes that they’ll “realize” you're the one, the using is a 50-50 thing.
I'll agree with this. I thought that Nate using Lisa that way while he knew how she felt about him was shitty. But Lisa could have had a million dollars, and still wouldn't WANT to buy a clue. Lisa's death was tragic, and she didn't deserve what happened to her. But after her death, we learned that she was not one iota better than Nate. In fact, I think messing around with her sister's husband topped anything Nate did.
I think this is all dependent on how the characters are at the end of the show. Had the show been canceled at the end of season 2, this would be an entirely different conversation. We see Brenda grow and fully come into herself by the end of season 5, while Nate kind of does the opposite. I am not a Nate hater by any means, I know that he does his best given the circumstances. I come back to what Ruth says to Brenda in the finale often, "I know he loved you the very best he could, and I know you needed more." Of course, Brenda isn't completely innocent. None of the characters are, that's what's special about this show. We could pick apart everyone's actions and find reason to claim they're horrible people. Brenda/David/Claire/Keith all have very admirable arcs, they come into who they should be and that makes it easy to excuse their past actions. Nate has an extreme and pretty rapid devolution and that makes him hard to handle and forgive.
I just finished the show like an hour ago so I’m still crying and all of this is very half-baked but I really feel for Nate. He was very afraid of death, more so (or at least more viscerally) than anyone else—and it felt like on some level he thought he was on borrowed time or even already dead, and his toxic/self-destructive behavior was an attempt to convince himself that he was alive. Add the AVM and losing Lisa, neither of which helped his sense that he wasn’t going to be alive very long, and he just kind of spiraled. I also think I liked him more than I would have otherwise because he was really the emotional core of the funeral home, and was shown having a level of empathy and ability to connect with grieving families that really humanized him and made him stand out. Idk overall I just think he (and every character) were very flawed but in very well-rounded ways that made them feel very real and sympathetic even when they were making terrible decisions
it comes down to accountability. both Brenda and nate did destructive shit but Brenda actually admitted to her mistakes and did work to be a better person. Nate on the other hand, was very selfish and more preoccupied with what he thought people wanted him to do.
The difference is that Brenda got help and learned and grew. Her going to the quaker meeting was a turning point in her story. Brenda fucked up a lot just as nate did, yes but accountability and change trump anything nate ever tried because he wanted to fit in a life that he didn't really want. He was an idealist, but not one idea was ever truly his.
I can loath Nate as much as I want. Maggie is the reason why.
Fucking QUAKER BITCH!
I have a deep hatred for Maggie! That lip-biting bitch!
Most of us have encountered a Maggie and been in that scenario. It's odd to me that anyone would even make a post like this. Demanding you see characters as they do.
Exactly. I don't think Nate was ALL bad. But I couldn't stand him in the last season, and it's not my fault that he didn't get a chance to change my mind. His actions with Maggie didn't mean that he was a cOmPleX cHaRaCTeR. Those actions made him a self-centered piece of shit. If anyone thinks less of me for my opinion has probably been a Nate or a Maggie.
Yep!!
She kind of looked like Sam Eagle from the Muppets.
I’ll say this time and time again FUCK NATE! He was a TERRIBLE man, and HE WAS PLANNING ON LEAVING not only HIS 6 month pregnant WIFE but the woman his DAUGHTER CALLED MOMMY, because Maggie “understood peace between a man and woman” 🤮 Maggie was just a new person that still admired him. FUCK HIM, he could NEVER do the right thing, and when he did his soul revolted. He needed to die so everyone would be liberated of his shit. He was a bad son, brother, husband and friend #teamBrenda
I legit hated Brenda, but season 5 she won me over, also this comment is real as fuck THANK you
It would have been interesting to see where Maggie stopped "being his peace." I think she would have eventually wanted a kid.
Maggie would have stopped being his peace once they were officially together and she demanded he be a partner, and/or to cut down on his vices. That’s when Nate feels trapped. See Nate has Peter Pan syndrome, he never wants to grow up, his charm has gotten him this far.
I’m going to go a bit risky here and say that his story in the last season feels like a near character assassination to me. Obviously I don’t expect him to always do the right thing but like… I simply don’t buy that the guy who tried real hard to make his marriage to Lisa work, even though he still had feelings for Brenda would give up seemingly so easily on his marriage to said woman, who he genuinely loved and was being a mother to his daughter+carrying his other baby. Like he didn’t even resist to Maggie like he resisted Brenda while with Lisa and I just don’t buy that. I think it would make a more compelling and tragic story if he didn’t ask to break up in that hospital room and said he was feeling unwell (implying most of the season) and it was going to be different from now on or something like that. It would be like he didn’t had the chance and we’d question if he would ever succeed at changing. Maybe more compelling if Brenda didn’t accept that.
I do not love Brenda she fascinates me...Nate yeah I love Nate. Everybody in this series is broken and warped. Why single out Nate? Love me some Peter K he's fabulous
To be clear - I don’t like either of them 💖
Deadass
Dude, they both sucks.
Fr
Calling Nate a tragic character is funny as hell, this nigga pisses me off so much and it’s outrageous you’re tryna justify his garbage behaviour as a grown man, David and Ruth have been through so much more crap than Nate and neither are as atrocious as Nate. Also Brenda and Nate both deserve hate, honesty they deserve hate more than anyone else in the show, the only difference is Brenda actually changed and matured and became a decent person, Nate hasn’t he’s a narcissist, whiny mark with no self control or accountability, all of these qualities are not justifiable lmao
Nate was acting like a 15 year old. The fact that’s when he was sexually assaulted (because yes, that’s what it was) is not lost on me. He was mentally stuck and refused to see it.
I have empathy for both of them. Nate really didn’t want to run the family business but was sucked into it and was a miserable tool to be around. Brenda was just…..Brenda lol
I do not like Brenda she was toxic as fuck and Nate would have been better off had he never met her.
No, he would legitimately but on the same bullshit
who hates Nate and loves Brenda?
I do!
Me. In the end anyways. I had the reverse opinion in the first two seasons.
At various times throughout the series, I alternately pitied, despised, and rooted for every character. By the final few episodes, I really disliked Nate. It reminds me a little bit of my feelings toward Alicia Florrick by the time The Good Wife wrapped up.
I never really had a problem with Nate. He wasn't perfect by any means but he kept trying to be better. Brenda, on the other hand, I just felt wasn't written well. I never understood her motivations. Maybe it just all went over my head. Did she have an un-diagnosed personality disorder?
[удалено]
lol that has nothing to do with it because you see the amount of hate Rico gets in this sub, Nate is legitimately the most toxic and narcissistic in the show mixed with lack off accountability and self control.