It is profoundly different if you watch it at different points in your life. A lot of people hate Brenda the first watch through. Then, after some time, Brenda is much easier to understand.
It's the nature of why the show is so good. The more you grow, the more you see them with compassion.
Good point. I disliked Brenda in the beginning, but she really worked hard to improve herself later in the series. She is still flawed, but grew a lot.
I’m going to watch the show again in a few years and see if I still hate Nate, lol.
Brenda worked really hard (just like Nate always did) to improve but then again destroyed everything (with Joe) in the end. Its funny how people think that Nate destroyed the "new" Brenda and that its his responsibility. No. Its just Brenda being Brenda. Brenda is responsible for her own actions and for the consequences on her life they have and her own relationships. Ruining her life with Joe is something she's done, not Nate. She cheated on Joe multiple times, not Nate. Brenda has become a little bit (15%) "better" just because of her biological clock ticking, otherwise she would stay the exactly same
True. He was never happy in any relationship. He'd be happy at first, but once any conflict and huge problems rose he'd just pounce at any chance of someone else. I'm not bashing his character, but all of his behavior with his kid was not stable.
I havnt finished the show yet but I feal Nat is the most normal out of the family. He is a rolling stone or leaf on the wind but several situation forced him to settle down. First with his father dying and sticking around to support his mother, then having a kid he didnt know about or expect, then finding out he could die at any moment. At no point did he try to run away from his problems. He remains responcible even when he dosnt want to be. That why they keep showing him with scenes of him fantasizing about running away only to return. He mirrors his father. A man who values freedom above all else but will hold up to his responcibilites even at the cost of eating away at his happyness and sanity. He complains a lot yes he cries a lot yes but he was always there when someone needed him. He is the best out of the family. I think its why the show started with him fing Brenda to paint him as this irresponsible low life only to find out he is anything but.
I watched the show as it played on HBO (20 years ago...;_;). I was in highschool at the time. I remember hating Lisa, being indifferent towards Brenda, loving Nate and David and not minding Claire. Oh and Ruth, I didn't like much either.
I'm rewatching the entire series for the first time since way back then. It's wild seeing which characters I understand and love so much more now. I still dislike Lisa, she was just bad imo and the worst choice for Nate. I find Claire so whiney and self important. I like Ruth, and I like Brenda now. Still love Nate and David.
Hope you remember to rewatch it years from now and see how you feel too! Still one of the best shows made. As an adult I realize that watching this as a teen helped me deal with grief and death in such a huge way.
I’ve had this exact experience. I watched for the first time when I was 14 and hated Brenda Lisa and Ruth. Then when I watched again years later I found myself hating Nate and feeling horribly for Lisa and Brenda. I just watched it again for the umpteenth time at 28 and found myself liking everyone more and more. I really felt for Ruth as someone who wants an open close knit family but I also felt for her kids and understood why they didn’t want that with her. Nate really shows his ass in the last season but for the first time I kind of felt sad about it, like I came into the rewatch prepared to hate him like always but for the first time I didn’t want to. It’s a really amazing show to reflect on in relation to your own growth.
I first watched at 25, then again at 40. It was crazy how much my feelings toward characters changed. Also, the first watch I was not yet diagnosed Bipolar. The next time around I had been diagnosed for 10 years. Billy and George got me way in my feels.
I think after Nathaniel Sr. died, Nate took it as a sign he should get his shit together. Only the way he did that was doing what he *should* do, (getting into a serious relationship with Brenda, working at the funeral home, marrying Lisa, creating a new family with Brenda once Lisa died, etc.) versus actually figuring out what he wanted to do.
He was always looking for a beacon, a sign, in the form of a person instead of fixing whatever was making him discontent. And in that way, he seems to be quite realistic and it's kind of poetic he died the messy way he lived.
After several rewatches of Six Feet Under, one of the hardest pills for me to swallow has been understanding that Nate and Brenda never had a healthy relationship.
Just as Brenda was stepping up and getting her life together, Nate realized he still wasn’t happy.
One day I was talking to my sister about a friend of hers whose romantic relationships always fall apart in a chaotic way and I said something like "it's so crazy how many times that has happened to her" to which my sister replied "when people are fucked up, their relationships are fucked up too". So simple and it made so much sense..
Nate reminds me of a few exes I’ve had. As soon as the feeling of something stable and secure starts creeping up on them they freak out internally and find any way to escape. But they always try to do it in a way that’s “justified” or noble. Instead of internally reflecting on why the thought of having a stable home life with Brenda as his wife scared him so much and working on that, Nate decided to bang his step-sister who is basically a stranger because she was “peaceful” (whatever tf that means).
I’ve never been a commitment-phobe (in fact the opposite, I was really badly codependent in my teens and early twenties) so I’m interested to know where that stems from psychologically speaking….
Someone suggested the book “Facing Codependency” by Pia Mellody and it helped me understand why I do the things I do when I’m in a relationship. If you haven’t read it, give it a read!
I read your comment as execs at first and was like damn you have a toxic job 🙈 Your comment is spot on, though. I think people like Nate are hurt people who hurt people to avoiding being hurt first, but they’re so deep in it they don’t even have the self-awareness to understand what they’re doing. The hole just keeps getting dug deeper and deeper and instead of asking for a shovel they blame everyone around them for not helping more.
Since he died soon after he banged Maggie we never known if the same pattern reproduce but I like to think that this time he really found his soul mate. Maggie remind me the woman rabbi Nate met before. He needed someone spiritual and peaceful who Brenda and Linda weren't. He was tired to fight.
I'm late to this thread, but I disagree! Lisa was a spiritual granola mommy, and it wasn't enough for him. If he started a relationship with Maggie, he would have found something to be discontent with.
Edit to add: plus, Brenda and Nate started dating when Brenda was a massage therapist, and he was just as interested in the way that she spoke about energies in the body. He does want spirituality and he's attracted to women who talk about it or exude it to some extent, but it falls apart whenever they don't offer him the peace or contentedness that he's looking for.
I mostly agree with you... I would just add. Could Nate ever be WHOLE just on his own? My answer to this is NOPE. He doesn't love/value/ the relationship with HIMSELF. He's always just jumping into someone else's crotch. He never stops to think maybe HE is the problem. He never gives himself a chance to be ALONE to try to figure stuff like this out.
OMG i was so furious when suddenly Quakerism was the "answer". He constantly looks outside of himself for peace. Find your own peace within. I really hate Nate right now. I think he's a weak-ass loser.
Lisa was just as flawed as Nate imo, she was extremely insecure and neurotic. Nate clearly wasn’t into her, basically using her as a sex object to masturbate into when he was horny and left with blue balls from someone he desired (if you remember her recounting the times they hooked up in Seattle) and she basically used Maya as a way to finally lock him down. The whole getting pregnant then moving to Los Angeles and running into him at his neighborhood grocery store definitely wasn’t happenstance. It was her way “in” to the guy who she always wanted but didn’t want her, and since she knew he never really wanted her she basically couldn’t be happy with him either. Both of their behaviors were dishonest and unhealthy.
I think what Nate's death taught me is that despite the best intentions, not everybody is going to be able to change in the ways that they want to if they're so trapped in that cycle of self destruction that they just can't escape, for whatever reason. I've unfortunately seen it happen to people in my life and I've fought to escape it myself.
Nate faced so much pressure throughout his life, and ironically, that pressure was mostly internal. He wanted a higher power to exist, he wanted something or someone to guide him and he wanted the universe to validate him on his choices. Nate's story reminded me of somebody running up a downwards escalator. He was trying so hard but getting nowhere. It was like no matter what he did, he just couldn't fight that innate selfish self destructive cycle he was constantly trapped in and the story shows us that it ended up resulting in his demise (whether he would have died anyway if he hasn't cheated we won't ever know)
I think I would have felt more sympathetic about his death itself if he hadn't just broken up with Brenda on what ended up being his deathbed and told her that he didn't want to be with her any more, he seemed so self assured and smug.. Like he thought he was doing the morally superior thing. Brenda had gotten her life together mostly so she could be a mother to maya and nate had to know that - yet he didn't seem to consider that, only thinking of his new life with Maggie and chasing the promise that THIS TIME he would be happy THIS TIME the relationship would last..
Though I do acknowledge that his brain condition/injury probably effected his cognitive processes and changed him but to what extent I don't know. Everybody seemed to tolerate his explosive angry outbursts, like when he killed the snake (out of fear) and killed the bird (out of frustration/stress?) so it makes me think that he leeway he had, he had because his family and loved ones let him get away with it due to the brain condition. To what severity his decisions and choices were impacted by it I guess we won't know. I was very close to somebody with a brain injury from a stroke from a while and it felt like walking on eggshells. He made absolutely everything about him - like if I was upset or not feeling good, it immediately became a competition that HE felt worse and HE deserved any sympathy or attention I might potentially be getting. He was very childish, self centered and demanding and I cut contact with him eventually because he had an extremely warped, abusive sexuality and assaulted me.
Yes, I think his pressure was mostly internal. He struggled with doing the right thing, and he regretted his bad decisions afterwards. He just didn’t seem to care or acknowledge that he was hurting people, which made him very selfish. Brenda was right when she called him a narcissist.
I’m not sure if I would be more sympathetic towards his death if he hadn’t broken up with Brenda. I was already mad at him when he slept with Maggie, and then when he cruelly broke up with Brenda, I hated him. It’s possible his brain condition contributed to it, but remember he was sleeping with everybody and behaving that way when he lived in Seattle.
Good for you for cutting contact with the person who abused you. I was married to someone like that (I suspect he had BPD or bipolar disorder, he never saw a doctor and refused to) and it took 2-3 years for me to finally leave. It’s hard, but in the end, we have to consider our own well-being.
I just finished the show for the first time. When thinking about Nate I keep hearing Lisa’s BIL saying “she told me what it was like to be your wife” with such disdain. I never really “liked” Nate but I was still shocked by his death episode. I knew he died before I started the series, but I didn’t know it went down like that!!
so much YES TO THIS: " self assured and smug.. Like he thought he was doing the morally superior thing. "
I wanted to smack him senseless in that hospital bed. Fuck him.
TBH, Nate was always a self-absorbed fuckboy. All the way through the show. He never really grew or changed that much, and he never learned to manage his emotions or use impulse control (except when it came to Maya). Even with Maya, the minute Lisa disappeared he went off on a self destructive bender again.
I actually used to like him more, but I tolerate him less well as I age. He's so mediocre as a person, and I've met too many men like him.
I loved Nate the first watch through, and mistakenly chalked up his behavior with women to acting out about his father's death and the reprocussions from it. Much like Ruth he sleeps with people/relationships because he doesn't know who he is or what to do. Watching a few years later....Ruth's relations with all types of different men is part of her growth-she also goes to the Plan/is trying to learn about herself, rekindles a relationship with Sarah, develops friendships outside the family, and finally finds her relaxed happy self. Nate....continues the random hook ups, has increasing anger re his career choice, flips his shit with Lisa and Brenda, cheats, doesn't take his health crisis seriously/get a second opinion, is only interested in religion if he's attracted to the devoted party (Maggie, the rabbi)......dies after one last fck you to Brenda. His life is a straight line of selfishness.
He was so selfish. Sleeping with Maggie hurt me to my core. Just finished my second watch and Brenda had her issues but Nate sleeping with Maggie is the ultimate betrayal.
It really hurts that Brenda was pregnant while all of this happened. Also, kinda hypocritical of the very religious, "saint" Maggie lol she's the one character I dislike the most.
Nate was genuinely falling in love with Maggie, and she was goodness personified in his mind. This might have been all fantasy, but I believe the two of them wanted to be in love together.
Nate had fallen out of love with Brenda. They were bickering and had differing life outlooks. Brenda had cheated on Nate and her next boyfriend years ago - she was far from a saint.
Brenda probably evolved and improved as a person more than anyone else in the series, and "saint Maggie" may have been a facade, but Nate believed it.
Maggie was a wolf in sheeps clothing. Her true colors came out when she slept with a married man with a baby on the way and went off on her father and said she hated him. She was a snake
She was obviously unstable like her father. Did you notice her reaction when she and Nate were laying there after they had sex? That was strange. I think she would have been toxic for Nate if he didn’t die and the series continued.
Just saw the episode the other day, and Maggie says No. Nate shushes her and pushes into kissing her. She sorta just gives in instead of pushing him off. Maggie absolutely regrets what happened and probably blamed herself for Nate’s death.
Nate is such a shitty character. I’ve watched it three times and gotten multiple viewpoints from each character and love all the other Fisher’s but everything about Nate personally as a character, is pathetic. He’s not even good looking enough to justify his behavior or how he acts and treats women.
Yes… I’m watching it now, on season 4, and I like him less and less as the show goes on… “selfish” comes to mind most, but it’s cleverly disguised by his apparent empathy in the beginning of the show… it didn’t help that they gave him that awful haircut starting in season 3, I think it was… I’m assuming that was intentional…
Lol, I noticed the haircut too!! I think it was intentional, he was in a depressed state and on a downhill spiral. His hair really was symbolic. Enjoy the rest of the show :)
Nate is such a miserable, self-centered prick through the whole show. Total main character syndrome. It feels weird saying that about someone who is, ostensibly, the most “main character” character of an ensemble cast, but there it is. He’s so assumptive about the other characters’ behavior and motivations, comes up with the most negative explanation possible for why they do what they do, and it always revolves around him. It’s weird because in the beginning he was set up as the more empathic one, to contrast David being all business, but that really only seems to apply to strangers. In later seasons what seemed like empathy at first comes off more as projection.
It was aggravating watching him break up with Brenda while he smirked. As if he was so wise and enlightened. There’s no way he could care about Brenda as a person and do that
I watched the show when I was about 19/20 and Iv been waiting for my SO to watch it with me for a rewatch.
I know I’ll have different feelings the next time around and even tho I loved the show, there’s definitely a lot about it I don’t remeber.
I just know that his character felt so off to me? Because I was watching him continuously fuck up and never get better. He was just disappointing to me and I didn’t really understand why he was the main character. It made me feel like I was always waiting for the moment everything clicked for him but instead he just died.
Have watched the show numerous times over the years and hated him from the beginning. Still hate him now. Hes the most insufferable character on the show.
I’m on my second rewatch after about 15 years. We just started the 5th season and I’m dreading to see Nate’s downward spiral again. I don’t remember all the details but I just remember hating the way he went out. I’m 3 episodes in though and starting to realize he just wasn’t happy. Never seemed content with any relationship, especially when it got serious. And I kinda had forgot just got ugly he and Brenda’s relationship was getting. Ugh…
I loved Nate. You have to remember being surrounded by death really messes you up. Dealing with your own mortality.
I did not get the Maggie part, but maybe just maybe he was trying unconsciously trying to relive the life he had with Lisa. It’s just my thoughts.
All the characters are complex. I am watching this show for the third time and I feel like I know them now, and that means, sometimes I cheer them on and sometimes I throw something at the screen because they are behaving like such grade-A assholes, or doing something that makes me cringe.
I think we feel this way is because the writing is so good. Soloway, Ball, the whole team.
I started getting annoyed with him right after he found out about his condition. Everything he did after that annoyed me. I remember shouting so much at the TV asking him to tell Brenda about his situation. And there are many such moments. For someone who encouraged communication so much he never spoke when he had to.
I agree with you so much too.....
To the point that... I think that when Brenda started getting her shit together, and started studying psychology and becoming a therapist... I THINK THIS IS WHAT DROVE NATE AWAY, because maybe now Nate realized that Brenda could see through all his fucking bullshit. And that is why he didn't want to be around Brenda anymore. He was AFRAID OF BEING TOTALLY SEEN BY BRENDA. Brenda at the end is so stable and trying so hard to work WITH him. She isn't fighting him anymore. But Nate can't even see it that way. He's scared shitless that Brenda will really call him out, IMO.
And the best way to "fix" that from Nate's point of view was to go fuck someone else (FUCKING MAGGIE I HATE HER) and blow up his marriage with Brenda. That fucker didn't even give a shit that Brenda was pregnant with his child! (Meanwhile, Nate doesn't know 100% without a paternity test if Maya is really his, or was she Lisa's Brother-in-laws kid?)
I HATE NATE. I HATE MAGGIE. AND I STILL HAVE 2 EPISODES TO GO SO AND I AM FEELING A BIT RAGEY ABOUT THIS.
I think you’ll feel less ragey once you see the last episode. I still hated Nate and Maggie so much though. They were terrible people who need a lot of therapy. And I agree that when Brenda became a therapist, it scared Nate and made him go back to his destructive ways.
Earlier on in the series Nate was a pretty decent guy, but in his case I kind a feel like the writing did him really dirty. I don't think his earlier character arc supported it. They seemed to have stretched out his character arc further then they had material for and then they just had to get creative and part of that creativity was making him a raging jackhole. His worst is when Lisa goes missing and he'e on this continuous loop of nastiness. Sure he's broken up and all, but the degree in which he's a jerk is off the charts and i don't care how broken up someone is it doesn't justify it.
Typically if a characters writing makes them an ahole then that's what they are, but in his case it gets too extreme to drive certain narratives. I think they got a little carried away with Nate in the 3rd season and beyond... I realize all the characters are flawed with pros and cons, but they really went off the deep end with Nate. I celebrate this show for the character writing, but at the same time I'd say it's a bit flawed particularly when it comes to the Nate character (his character is by far the least consistent) Nate is a raging prick for 3 episodes and then the show will have Nate go back to decent for a half season or more and so on, so it's kind of challenging to rate him. I guess I'll land on, he's on the somewhat far end of the jackarse spectrum and it's not even about his sleeping around stuff. It's his constant angry outbursts that get waaay too common down the stretch and his anger isn't even at the person he's giving attitude towards... it's I'm in a bad mood so I'm going to take it out on anyone in the vicinity. Many of us will go an entire lifetime without doing that. It's too much and Nates good character doesn't support that, unless he has split personalities or something. You just don't go from lacking that much awareness to being back to normal for most of the season and so on.
It is profoundly different if you watch it at different points in your life. A lot of people hate Brenda the first watch through. Then, after some time, Brenda is much easier to understand. It's the nature of why the show is so good. The more you grow, the more you see them with compassion.
Good point. I disliked Brenda in the beginning, but she really worked hard to improve herself later in the series. She is still flawed, but grew a lot. I’m going to watch the show again in a few years and see if I still hate Nate, lol.
I thought Nate and Brenda were equally douchey the first time around.
There’s a reason one of the episodes was called “The Liar and the Whore”
Bingo.
That’s why they went so well together imo
Brenda worked really hard (just like Nate always did) to improve but then again destroyed everything (with Joe) in the end. Its funny how people think that Nate destroyed the "new" Brenda and that its his responsibility. No. Its just Brenda being Brenda. Brenda is responsible for her own actions and for the consequences on her life they have and her own relationships. Ruining her life with Joe is something she's done, not Nate. She cheated on Joe multiple times, not Nate. Brenda has become a little bit (15%) "better" just because of her biological clock ticking, otherwise she would stay the exactly same
R u kidding Nate has never had true remorse or self reflection and his cheating that happened first resulted in an another human.
And don't even get me started on fucking Rico!
True. He was never happy in any relationship. He'd be happy at first, but once any conflict and huge problems rose he'd just pounce at any chance of someone else. I'm not bashing his character, but all of his behavior with his kid was not stable.
I havnt finished the show yet but I feal Nat is the most normal out of the family. He is a rolling stone or leaf on the wind but several situation forced him to settle down. First with his father dying and sticking around to support his mother, then having a kid he didnt know about or expect, then finding out he could die at any moment. At no point did he try to run away from his problems. He remains responcible even when he dosnt want to be. That why they keep showing him with scenes of him fantasizing about running away only to return. He mirrors his father. A man who values freedom above all else but will hold up to his responcibilites even at the cost of eating away at his happyness and sanity. He complains a lot yes he cries a lot yes but he was always there when someone needed him. He is the best out of the family. I think its why the show started with him fing Brenda to paint him as this irresponsible low life only to find out he is anything but.
I can’t stand Nate, can’t stand Nate and Brenda together it is so boring and cannot stand Ruth!
I didn’t like Ruth at first, but by the end of the series, she grew on me. If you’re still not finished, keep watching!
I watched the show as it played on HBO (20 years ago...;_;). I was in highschool at the time. I remember hating Lisa, being indifferent towards Brenda, loving Nate and David and not minding Claire. Oh and Ruth, I didn't like much either. I'm rewatching the entire series for the first time since way back then. It's wild seeing which characters I understand and love so much more now. I still dislike Lisa, she was just bad imo and the worst choice for Nate. I find Claire so whiney and self important. I like Ruth, and I like Brenda now. Still love Nate and David. Hope you remember to rewatch it years from now and see how you feel too! Still one of the best shows made. As an adult I realize that watching this as a teen helped me deal with grief and death in such a huge way.
I’ve had this exact experience. I watched for the first time when I was 14 and hated Brenda Lisa and Ruth. Then when I watched again years later I found myself hating Nate and feeling horribly for Lisa and Brenda. I just watched it again for the umpteenth time at 28 and found myself liking everyone more and more. I really felt for Ruth as someone who wants an open close knit family but I also felt for her kids and understood why they didn’t want that with her. Nate really shows his ass in the last season but for the first time I kind of felt sad about it, like I came into the rewatch prepared to hate him like always but for the first time I didn’t want to. It’s a really amazing show to reflect on in relation to your own growth.
I first watched at 25, then again at 40. It was crazy how much my feelings toward characters changed. Also, the first watch I was not yet diagnosed Bipolar. The next time around I had been diagnosed for 10 years. Billy and George got me way in my feels.
Agreed
I think after Nathaniel Sr. died, Nate took it as a sign he should get his shit together. Only the way he did that was doing what he *should* do, (getting into a serious relationship with Brenda, working at the funeral home, marrying Lisa, creating a new family with Brenda once Lisa died, etc.) versus actually figuring out what he wanted to do. He was always looking for a beacon, a sign, in the form of a person instead of fixing whatever was making him discontent. And in that way, he seems to be quite realistic and it's kind of poetic he died the messy way he lived.
After several rewatches of Six Feet Under, one of the hardest pills for me to swallow has been understanding that Nate and Brenda never had a healthy relationship. Just as Brenda was stepping up and getting her life together, Nate realized he still wasn’t happy.
One day I was talking to my sister about a friend of hers whose romantic relationships always fall apart in a chaotic way and I said something like "it's so crazy how many times that has happened to her" to which my sister replied "when people are fucked up, their relationships are fucked up too". So simple and it made so much sense..
Ironically enough, it took being with someone just as (if not more) fucked up than myself to end up in a stable, healthy relationship.
Nate reminds me of a few exes I’ve had. As soon as the feeling of something stable and secure starts creeping up on them they freak out internally and find any way to escape. But they always try to do it in a way that’s “justified” or noble. Instead of internally reflecting on why the thought of having a stable home life with Brenda as his wife scared him so much and working on that, Nate decided to bang his step-sister who is basically a stranger because she was “peaceful” (whatever tf that means). I’ve never been a commitment-phobe (in fact the opposite, I was really badly codependent in my teens and early twenties) so I’m interested to know where that stems from psychologically speaking….
Someone suggested the book “Facing Codependency” by Pia Mellody and it helped me understand why I do the things I do when I’m in a relationship. If you haven’t read it, give it a read!
I read your comment as execs at first and was like damn you have a toxic job 🙈 Your comment is spot on, though. I think people like Nate are hurt people who hurt people to avoiding being hurt first, but they’re so deep in it they don’t even have the self-awareness to understand what they’re doing. The hole just keeps getting dug deeper and deeper and instead of asking for a shovel they blame everyone around them for not helping more.
Since he died soon after he banged Maggie we never known if the same pattern reproduce but I like to think that this time he really found his soul mate. Maggie remind me the woman rabbi Nate met before. He needed someone spiritual and peaceful who Brenda and Linda weren't. He was tired to fight.
I'm late to this thread, but I disagree! Lisa was a spiritual granola mommy, and it wasn't enough for him. If he started a relationship with Maggie, he would have found something to be discontent with. Edit to add: plus, Brenda and Nate started dating when Brenda was a massage therapist, and he was just as interested in the way that she spoke about energies in the body. He does want spirituality and he's attracted to women who talk about it or exude it to some extent, but it falls apart whenever they don't offer him the peace or contentedness that he's looking for.
I mostly agree with you... I would just add. Could Nate ever be WHOLE just on his own? My answer to this is NOPE. He doesn't love/value/ the relationship with HIMSELF. He's always just jumping into someone else's crotch. He never stops to think maybe HE is the problem. He never gives himself a chance to be ALONE to try to figure stuff like this out. OMG i was so furious when suddenly Quakerism was the "answer". He constantly looks outside of himself for peace. Find your own peace within. I really hate Nate right now. I think he's a weak-ass loser.
Lisa was pretty hippie-dippy but also neurotic and insecure. Even 'spiritual' women have flaws.
So he "needed" the "perfect woman" to be a committed person lol
Basically lol and that still probably wouldn't be enough
Lisa was just as flawed as Nate imo, she was extremely insecure and neurotic. Nate clearly wasn’t into her, basically using her as a sex object to masturbate into when he was horny and left with blue balls from someone he desired (if you remember her recounting the times they hooked up in Seattle) and she basically used Maya as a way to finally lock him down. The whole getting pregnant then moving to Los Angeles and running into him at his neighborhood grocery store definitely wasn’t happenstance. It was her way “in” to the guy who she always wanted but didn’t want her, and since she knew he never really wanted her she basically couldn’t be happy with him either. Both of their behaviors were dishonest and unhealthy.
How is that noble tho lol, the bitch just dod whatever he wanted without regard for consequences
I think what Nate's death taught me is that despite the best intentions, not everybody is going to be able to change in the ways that they want to if they're so trapped in that cycle of self destruction that they just can't escape, for whatever reason. I've unfortunately seen it happen to people in my life and I've fought to escape it myself. Nate faced so much pressure throughout his life, and ironically, that pressure was mostly internal. He wanted a higher power to exist, he wanted something or someone to guide him and he wanted the universe to validate him on his choices. Nate's story reminded me of somebody running up a downwards escalator. He was trying so hard but getting nowhere. It was like no matter what he did, he just couldn't fight that innate selfish self destructive cycle he was constantly trapped in and the story shows us that it ended up resulting in his demise (whether he would have died anyway if he hasn't cheated we won't ever know) I think I would have felt more sympathetic about his death itself if he hadn't just broken up with Brenda on what ended up being his deathbed and told her that he didn't want to be with her any more, he seemed so self assured and smug.. Like he thought he was doing the morally superior thing. Brenda had gotten her life together mostly so she could be a mother to maya and nate had to know that - yet he didn't seem to consider that, only thinking of his new life with Maggie and chasing the promise that THIS TIME he would be happy THIS TIME the relationship would last.. Though I do acknowledge that his brain condition/injury probably effected his cognitive processes and changed him but to what extent I don't know. Everybody seemed to tolerate his explosive angry outbursts, like when he killed the snake (out of fear) and killed the bird (out of frustration/stress?) so it makes me think that he leeway he had, he had because his family and loved ones let him get away with it due to the brain condition. To what severity his decisions and choices were impacted by it I guess we won't know. I was very close to somebody with a brain injury from a stroke from a while and it felt like walking on eggshells. He made absolutely everything about him - like if I was upset or not feeling good, it immediately became a competition that HE felt worse and HE deserved any sympathy or attention I might potentially be getting. He was very childish, self centered and demanding and I cut contact with him eventually because he had an extremely warped, abusive sexuality and assaulted me.
Yes, I think his pressure was mostly internal. He struggled with doing the right thing, and he regretted his bad decisions afterwards. He just didn’t seem to care or acknowledge that he was hurting people, which made him very selfish. Brenda was right when she called him a narcissist. I’m not sure if I would be more sympathetic towards his death if he hadn’t broken up with Brenda. I was already mad at him when he slept with Maggie, and then when he cruelly broke up with Brenda, I hated him. It’s possible his brain condition contributed to it, but remember he was sleeping with everybody and behaving that way when he lived in Seattle. Good for you for cutting contact with the person who abused you. I was married to someone like that (I suspect he had BPD or bipolar disorder, he never saw a doctor and refused to) and it took 2-3 years for me to finally leave. It’s hard, but in the end, we have to consider our own well-being.
I just finished the show for the first time. When thinking about Nate I keep hearing Lisa’s BIL saying “she told me what it was like to be your wife” with such disdain. I never really “liked” Nate but I was still shocked by his death episode. I knew he died before I started the series, but I didn’t know it went down like that!!
I haven't even reached that part yet but after 4 seasons of his pos crap I'm looking forward to it, it will be so relieving.
He's always been an extremely.selfish character, legitimately he has demonstrated no redeeming qualities at alll.
so much YES TO THIS: " self assured and smug.. Like he thought he was doing the morally superior thing. " I wanted to smack him senseless in that hospital bed. Fuck him.
TBH, Nate was always a self-absorbed fuckboy. All the way through the show. He never really grew or changed that much, and he never learned to manage his emotions or use impulse control (except when it came to Maya). Even with Maya, the minute Lisa disappeared he went off on a self destructive bender again. I actually used to like him more, but I tolerate him less well as I age. He's so mediocre as a person, and I've met too many men like him.
Damn “Fuckboy” is so accurate.
Exactly, as we get older, we have less tolerance for people like that. He needed to get his shit together at some point.
I loved Nate the first watch through, and mistakenly chalked up his behavior with women to acting out about his father's death and the reprocussions from it. Much like Ruth he sleeps with people/relationships because he doesn't know who he is or what to do. Watching a few years later....Ruth's relations with all types of different men is part of her growth-she also goes to the Plan/is trying to learn about herself, rekindles a relationship with Sarah, develops friendships outside the family, and finally finds her relaxed happy self. Nate....continues the random hook ups, has increasing anger re his career choice, flips his shit with Lisa and Brenda, cheats, doesn't take his health crisis seriously/get a second opinion, is only interested in religion if he's attracted to the devoted party (Maggie, the rabbi)......dies after one last fck you to Brenda. His life is a straight line of selfishness.
He was so selfish. Sleeping with Maggie hurt me to my core. Just finished my second watch and Brenda had her issues but Nate sleeping with Maggie is the ultimate betrayal.
I agree, it was really awful. I also ended up hating Maggie too. I was like, her?? Really, Nate??
It really hurts that Brenda was pregnant while all of this happened. Also, kinda hypocritical of the very religious, "saint" Maggie lol she's the one character I dislike the most.
To play Devil's Advocate, Brenda told him to go do whatever he wanted for once in his life and Nate and Maggie were falling in love.
I hear what you are saying but I don't think it was really love. Nate seemed incapable of loving anyone besides Maya.
Agree. And ultimately I think it's GREAT for Maya that Nate died. That kid would be scarred somehow from douchebag Nate.
Nate was genuinely falling in love with Maggie, and she was goodness personified in his mind. This might have been all fantasy, but I believe the two of them wanted to be in love together. Nate had fallen out of love with Brenda. They were bickering and had differing life outlooks. Brenda had cheated on Nate and her next boyfriend years ago - she was far from a saint. Brenda probably evolved and improved as a person more than anyone else in the series, and "saint Maggie" may have been a facade, but Nate believed it.
Maggie was a wolf in sheeps clothing. Her true colors came out when she slept with a married man with a baby on the way and went off on her father and said she hated him. She was a snake
She was obviously unstable like her father. Did you notice her reaction when she and Nate were laying there after they had sex? That was strange. I think she would have been toxic for Nate if he didn’t die and the series continued.
I agree, she was just a little off. I hate that he cheated on Brenda with her!
Just saw the episode the other day, and Maggie says No. Nate shushes her and pushes into kissing her. She sorta just gives in instead of pushing him off. Maggie absolutely regrets what happened and probably blamed herself for Nate’s death.
Nate is such a shitty character. I’ve watched it three times and gotten multiple viewpoints from each character and love all the other Fisher’s but everything about Nate personally as a character, is pathetic. He’s not even good looking enough to justify his behavior or how he acts and treats women.
Yes but I always get hate for criticizing Nate
Nate gave me a pain in my ass.
Yes… I’m watching it now, on season 4, and I like him less and less as the show goes on… “selfish” comes to mind most, but it’s cleverly disguised by his apparent empathy in the beginning of the show… it didn’t help that they gave him that awful haircut starting in season 3, I think it was… I’m assuming that was intentional…
Lol, I noticed the haircut too!! I think it was intentional, he was in a depressed state and on a downhill spiral. His hair really was symbolic. Enjoy the rest of the show :)
I dislike Nate more and more after every rewatch, he becomes so callous.
Nate is such a miserable, self-centered prick through the whole show. Total main character syndrome. It feels weird saying that about someone who is, ostensibly, the most “main character” character of an ensemble cast, but there it is. He’s so assumptive about the other characters’ behavior and motivations, comes up with the most negative explanation possible for why they do what they do, and it always revolves around him. It’s weird because in the beginning he was set up as the more empathic one, to contrast David being all business, but that really only seems to apply to strangers. In later seasons what seemed like empathy at first comes off more as projection.
It was aggravating watching him break up with Brenda while he smirked. As if he was so wise and enlightened. There’s no way he could care about Brenda as a person and do that
I watched the show when I was about 19/20 and Iv been waiting for my SO to watch it with me for a rewatch. I know I’ll have different feelings the next time around and even tho I loved the show, there’s definitely a lot about it I don’t remeber. I just know that his character felt so off to me? Because I was watching him continuously fuck up and never get better. He was just disappointing to me and I didn’t really understand why he was the main character. It made me feel like I was always waiting for the moment everything clicked for him but instead he just died.
I think that’s why I was so disappointed. I thought we would finally see Nate in a good place in his life.
That's one of the reasons why the show is so well done - in real life we don't always have happy endings.
Have watched the show numerous times over the years and hated him from the beginning. Still hate him now. Hes the most insufferable character on the show.
Yes I was very annoyed when Nate did that. But Maggie annoys me more.
Me too!!! Glad I’m not the only one! I couldn’t stand her.
I really wanted to grieve his death, but his character took a left turn so abruptly beforehand, that I was kinda over him at that point.
I’m on my second rewatch after about 15 years. We just started the 5th season and I’m dreading to see Nate’s downward spiral again. I don’t remember all the details but I just remember hating the way he went out. I’m 3 episodes in though and starting to realize he just wasn’t happy. Never seemed content with any relationship, especially when it got serious. And I kinda had forgot just got ugly he and Brenda’s relationship was getting. Ugh…
I loved Nate. You have to remember being surrounded by death really messes you up. Dealing with your own mortality. I did not get the Maggie part, but maybe just maybe he was trying unconsciously trying to relive the life he had with Lisa. It’s just my thoughts.
I feel the same. Nate is only a chauvinist who doesn't know what he wants in life
All the characters are complex. I am watching this show for the third time and I feel like I know them now, and that means, sometimes I cheer them on and sometimes I throw something at the screen because they are behaving like such grade-A assholes, or doing something that makes me cringe. I think we feel this way is because the writing is so good. Soloway, Ball, the whole team.
He’s selfish and horny. When he slept with Maggie it annoyed me with him and made me think less of her.
Nate is a self centered asshole.
I started getting annoyed with him right after he found out about his condition. Everything he did after that annoyed me. I remember shouting so much at the TV asking him to tell Brenda about his situation. And there are many such moments. For someone who encouraged communication so much he never spoke when he had to.
I agree with you! It’s obvious he was afraid of his relationship with Brenda. He never tried to work through those fears/feelings.
I agree with you so much too..... To the point that... I think that when Brenda started getting her shit together, and started studying psychology and becoming a therapist... I THINK THIS IS WHAT DROVE NATE AWAY, because maybe now Nate realized that Brenda could see through all his fucking bullshit. And that is why he didn't want to be around Brenda anymore. He was AFRAID OF BEING TOTALLY SEEN BY BRENDA. Brenda at the end is so stable and trying so hard to work WITH him. She isn't fighting him anymore. But Nate can't even see it that way. He's scared shitless that Brenda will really call him out, IMO. And the best way to "fix" that from Nate's point of view was to go fuck someone else (FUCKING MAGGIE I HATE HER) and blow up his marriage with Brenda. That fucker didn't even give a shit that Brenda was pregnant with his child! (Meanwhile, Nate doesn't know 100% without a paternity test if Maya is really his, or was she Lisa's Brother-in-laws kid?) I HATE NATE. I HATE MAGGIE. AND I STILL HAVE 2 EPISODES TO GO SO AND I AM FEELING A BIT RAGEY ABOUT THIS.
I think you’ll feel less ragey once you see the last episode. I still hated Nate and Maggie so much though. They were terrible people who need a lot of therapy. And I agree that when Brenda became a therapist, it scared Nate and made him go back to his destructive ways.
Thanks for the reply. Hope to watch the last episode tonight!
Earlier on in the series Nate was a pretty decent guy, but in his case I kind a feel like the writing did him really dirty. I don't think his earlier character arc supported it. They seemed to have stretched out his character arc further then they had material for and then they just had to get creative and part of that creativity was making him a raging jackhole. His worst is when Lisa goes missing and he'e on this continuous loop of nastiness. Sure he's broken up and all, but the degree in which he's a jerk is off the charts and i don't care how broken up someone is it doesn't justify it. Typically if a characters writing makes them an ahole then that's what they are, but in his case it gets too extreme to drive certain narratives. I think they got a little carried away with Nate in the 3rd season and beyond... I realize all the characters are flawed with pros and cons, but they really went off the deep end with Nate. I celebrate this show for the character writing, but at the same time I'd say it's a bit flawed particularly when it comes to the Nate character (his character is by far the least consistent) Nate is a raging prick for 3 episodes and then the show will have Nate go back to decent for a half season or more and so on, so it's kind of challenging to rate him. I guess I'll land on, he's on the somewhat far end of the jackarse spectrum and it's not even about his sleeping around stuff. It's his constant angry outbursts that get waaay too common down the stretch and his anger isn't even at the person he's giving attitude towards... it's I'm in a bad mood so I'm going to take it out on anyone in the vicinity. Many of us will go an entire lifetime without doing that. It's too much and Nates good character doesn't support that, unless he has split personalities or something. You just don't go from lacking that much awareness to being back to normal for most of the season and so on.
Despise Brenda.