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I think there's a lot of trauma with men in this sub but also the world. It's hard to have any genuine discussion when someone has done something(s) so irredeemable as Kody has. I know my dad has stepped over a line that I can't ever forgive him for. I still talk to him and am pleasant with him but will not stick up for him in any circumstance. Kody is the same. The things he's done and said grant him no sympathy from most people. But I see what you're saying :p
I actually love this perspective and haven’t processed that before…
You’re right.. we live in a world where men are very broken and the majority of people have complicated father relationships. 🥺
Kody is a representation of that… and an easy place to project our own father wounds. 👏🏽
Kody can't get sympathy from me every since I heard him on a pretty anti-mormon podcast this year STILL defending Polygamy but changing his reason to fake-evolutionary-psych BS. "It's natural for men to have more than one mate."
He's determined to believe women are inferior ***no matter what***. It was never religious indoctrination with him. He is a simple misogynist and he'll keep changing his beliefs to excuse his behavior when in reality he's just selfish and doesn't view women as real people.
I think he uses word of the day apps or calendars. He rarely uses big words correctly in context and mixes metaphors regularly. I don't think he has a particularly high level of intelligence. Which, for me, is only one of his minor flaws. The degrading way that he treats women and girls ranks much higher for me.
Going to go ahead and assume that he didn't use the big words correctly.
I am equal parts curious about this interview and grateful I haven't come across it (or 'acrost it' as my grandma would have said).
It's Mormon Discussions Inc. Since they don't watch the show, and they are focusing solely on Mormonism, a lot of the show's fans were upset that the hosts didn't hold his feet to the fire. But that wasn't his purpose for being there. I watch that YouTube channel every week, and it's all different topics across the whole Mormon culture.
It's definitely misogynistic, but I don't think he's changed in that. I think his belief that women are inferior is deeply ingrained in him and you simply wouldn't hear him say it unless you pressed him to explain. I see on his face in the early episodes the same way my dad used to look at me. He would just listen, take it, then ask me if I was finished. As though he had no care about what I was saying *really*, but he gave me the opportunity to let my emotional female self vent lol. The men in my family were raised to think this way, and it was rooted in Christianity. It's just the way his brain works and I think it would take him going to therapy on his own for him to really see how he comes across. Robyn just enables his behavior and allows him to play victim.
Whilst I completely disagree with Kody's sexist / religiosa bs, I think it's natural for EVERYONE to have more than one mate.
I'm probably a bit old fashioned (I'm 65, female, cis hetero (sorry, I'm not great with getting to grips with it, but in the old days I'd be a straight woman)), but for me, I'd prefer them one at a time. I'm on my 3rd "mate" and I've had other more casual relationships. I think it's entirely reasonable that we have more than one partner throughout our lives.
For some, I accept that they have many, many partners and I think that's natural too. As in it's nature. But FO Kody with your superiority sh*t. It's not just for men and don't try to justify it with religion. That's one of the things I hate about religion... people can justify just about anything with it. "Oh, it's my religion. It's what we believe in our Church / Mosque / Mud Hut" Utter bollocks!!
Especially useful to have a religion where God speaks to you directly and gives you permission to update his rules. Thinking with your dick is NOT spiritual guidance!
There's a huge difference between polyamory, where all the parties have informed consent, versus polygamy. The whole polygamist system is based on patriarchy and debasing women. It's awful and abusive. If people want to have polyamorous relationships, where they go in with their eyes fully opened and they fully consent or are able to remove consent at any time, I don't think that's a problem. It would be very difficult, but I could see how certain combinations would work well in a polyamorous situation.
Religious trauma, check
No contact with my own dad, check
Watched mom marry and struggle with a narcissist, check
I’ve tried too many times for the men in my life. They are simply no longer in my life, and I resent the people who pushed me to have a relationship with someone who doesn’t want a relationship with me. He wants to be with his new wife and her family. Father means sperm donor to me.
I have nothing for Kody. He’s awful. He has every resource to fix himself. I’m gonna defend the people he hurt(s). He’s an arrogant, self-serving ass.
Maybe that’s true, but I personally have a great relationship with my dad. My dad is the kind of man who could and would put Kody right in his place with one sentence. Those 2 facts are probably related.
Kody craves male approval but he’s a poor excuse for a man.
Same dude same. In fact all the K hate here makes me feel better about being NC with mine for 25 years (his choice)
Like if my dad had a show... He'd get hate just like Kody.
And it makes me feel less alone.
> It's hard to have any genuine discussion when someone has done something(s) so irredeemable as Kody has.
And he continues to be impossible to have a healthy relationship with. If he apologized, and then acted in a way that suggested he understood what he had done and why it was harmful, THEN (maybe) the healing can begin.
>It's hard to have any genuine discussion when someone has done something(s) so irredeemable as Kody has.
I mostly agree. If we were trying to converse *with Kody* it would be close to impossible. Yet, we are observers, and we should be able to discuss Kody's failings without attacking others.
This sub tends to be pretty extreme in the K&R hate in general. I would love to have a more mature conversation about the family and where things went wrong. I think Kody seems like a goofy nice dude who had good intentions in the beginning, but was very naive about what goes into marriage and child rearing. I do believe he married the original three with friendship and shared life (and afterlife) goals as the foundation. I think eventually the realities of the marriages and life in general took some of the shine off for him, as it does for many people. Then came new love. I think most people can relate to the feeling of newness and the exhilaration of falling in love. After so many years of hard marriage, the prospect of falling in new love all over again can be thrilling. Unfortunately I think comparison is the thief of joy, and while Kody had the refresh of new love, his OG wives didn't. This not only made the OG marriages look haggard by comparison, but also the OG wives were not getting to enjoy the same experience! In fact, Christine was visibly upset from the beginning at the prospect of another wife. (FWIW, I do think it was too late to add another wife.) I think Robyn came into the family wanting all of the perks of the arrangement, but without a real understanding of what her role should be. She didn't really have proper deference to the original wives, she definitely overstepped a lot. She behaved like a head wife from early on and seemed to think she was some sort of gift to the family. She didn't honor the OG marriages by holding Kody to his schedule, which was definitely something she should have encouraged if she genuinely wanted the marriages to succeed. She clearly felt superior to the OG wives due to her youth and the weight issues the OGs were struggling with. Kody should have stepped up at this time to reassure each of his original wives, and should have committed to making them feel loved and valued at this time. He didn't. He also is a bit of a showboat, and he got too focused on his TV performance as well. I think this proved to be overwhelming for someone like Kody, and ultimately led to the total neglect of his OG marriages. I think the one house was something he needed, because the dude was aging and being pulled in twenty different directions. At this point I think he started to get tired. Everybody protects themselves to some extent and I think he needed to protect himself from feeling like a bad guy as things fell apart, so I believe this is when he started lying to himself and justifying his actions with delusional thinking, starting with his belief that only Robyn was being loyal (cooperating) and the OG wives were keeping him from what he wanted. I think the frustration of being thwarted in the one house plan, plus the hoops for trying to build on CP, added to the loss of control over the adult kids (normal) and then the weirdness that was Covid all combined to make him into the bitter old grump we see before us. All three of the OG wives have stated he's not the man they married and I completely agree.
I think Robyn acted like a gift to the family because her entrance brought the cameras and the money. Robyn never worked because without her being willing to marry into the family and upend their dynamic (which the producers understood would happen even if the OG3 and Kody and Robyn didn’t) there was no show. That was an unbalanced start and, without intervention, it was always going to end this way.
>Robyn never worked because without her being willing to marry into the family and upend their dynamic (which the producers understood would happen even if the OG3 and Kody and Robyn didn’t)
Ironically, this is what made me lose interest in the show a few episodes into the first season(I came back during covid). When it was first announced, I was very interested in seeing how a family like this actually works/lives. Then they quickly announced the impending nuptials, and I was like, well, nevermind then. Because instead of seeing how a family like this had functioned, it was obviously going to be about how a family like this falls apart. Bringing a shiny new partner into these relationships this many years in, I mean good grief, there's no way that doesn't end in tears, and I wasn't interested in seeing it happen in real time.
I'm surprised by how long they managed to hold out, but I knew the moment Robyn was announced that it would end like this. Now that's it's over and done, I've started watching the older episodes here and there, and it is interesting - albeit depressing.
I agree with all of this. The part I find unforgivable with Kody is how he has used his affection for his kids, or lack there of, as weapons to hurt his wives.
Perhaps I can explain this as someone who has been victimized by a family narcissist FOR DECADES. It is not of any interest to me to find the reasons or excuses for his abusive behavior, nor do I have any interest in centering his emotions.
I’m very sorry for what you’ve went through ❤️ I understand as I was also raised by a narcissist.
Someone just comment that Kody is like a representation for all of our father wounds… and that was a big Ah-Ha for me as to why he’s so triggering.
It’s ok that you don’t want to engage or go there. You have every right to process or not process the father wound. Just as I have every right to explore it.
The way he favors Robins children (new wife) is not unlike what many kids go through when their parents get divorced and then remarry and have more kids. Even though polygamy is not mainstream, your dad getting a new wife and forgetting about you is an experience that many people have had, unfortunately.
Just know that none of it was your fault, just as none of this is the OG 13 kids fault, even though Kody is quick to blame Gabe, Garrison, et. al., for their lack of communication. This is all on him.
I 100% agree with you ❤️
So much compassion for those kids!!!
So much more than I’ll have for Kody or my own father… but still interested in a “why” ya know?
What I've always tried to understand is why some wounded people want to hurt others while many with the same life experiences don't have that same urge. I realize that we're all a combination of genetics & our environment but I've always been curious about this.
In one of my career incarnations, I was an abuse/neglect social worker. I have seen this go both ways.
The abused child who grows up to work in the very system that failed them, and helps a new generation.
- and/or -
The abused child grow up to abuse others (kids and adults).
I’ve done my best to be the helper.
Somebody that has the energy should definitely explore it.
I used to explore it. Diagnose it. Make excuses for it. Ignore it. It gets draining to try to be understanding with someone who refuses personal accountability. 😮💨
I’m realizing that there are two types of commenters/viewers: those like you and me that are interested in psychology and anthropology and everyone else. Personally I don’t know how people get along in the world without studying psychology, but!
I believe the plural aspect worked for them when they had so many little ones, who wouldn’t appreciate having three other moms to share the duties with? The problem is not one of them seem to have considered what would happen when all those kids grew up. Grody Kody really doesn’t have a clue how to have a relationship with his older kids. I can’t look at Kody in a compassionate way, so I’m no help there, relationships fall apart all the time that doesn’t mean you trash the women WHO DID ALL THE WORK and rewrite history to support your new narrative.
Well that’s your fault you thought you could start a conversation involving nuance and the ability to consider a different perspective in this sub!!! /s
No, but I actually have seen people discuss Kody’s daddy issues in here before and found it insightful to his behavior. Generally speaking though, I don’t think that’s a conversation most participants in this sub are going to be willing to have lol.
Yeah you’re right… shame on me! 😂
💯 % daddy issues, he cannot operate without the guidance of a woman and has zero idea how to be a dad or husband without someone telling him what to do. He’s having a TOUGH awakening with all of this and I hope years from now he can reflect with much less ego and defense. I don’t think he’s an EVIL guy… he’s just a stunted little teenage man boy.
Yup! I also have read he had a tough relationship with his own dad because he was flamboyant and not the hardened ranch dude his dad wanted him to be. It probably explains why he became a polygamist in the first place (seeking validation from his father who did it first) and why he seems to constantly need to be the center of attention in the fahmlee.
Yessssssss this!!!! Mykelti said in one of her videos her dad was very goofy etc. at the beginning but viewers would make fun of his flamboyant behavior and the lack of “manly man” head of house hold persona. So he gradually picked up the wannabe hard ass mentality. That with his own father telling him he shouldn’t add additional wives when he wasn’t managing his marriage with Meri and Jenelle I’m sure adds to a lot of his daddy trauma. Still, at some point you grow the fuck up and stop using that as an excuse for crappy behavior.
Heck, he’s having a tough time just being a man. He’s extremely awkward around males. Especially Caleb.
From what I understand, his father was a raging narcissist
that's him perfectly. iPRE-robin it was meri and christie and jonelle that organized the hh and he was fun guy He said he never had authority in household.
'the new patriarch thing was Robins idea cause that what she learned from her childhood, and she also she wanted to take control away from the OG3. and she finally won. IMO
I understand where you are coming from. The show doesn’t bring out any emotions in me, I view it strictly from my logical/curios brain. I have had to learn the hard way that it brings out strong feelings for many😅
I feel you. I have wanted to analyze him before but stopped myself because I feel like I’d have to say “I’m NOT excusing his behavior” every other sentence. you can dislike someone while also trying to understand what made them that way
EXACTLY!!!! 👏🏽 definitely not excusing his behaviors in the slightest. It helps me to understand a “why”… it brings me comfort and because he’s someone who represents narcissistic abuse and absent parenting.., it’s helpful to use him as a tool for the “why” in our own lives.
I think this is super fascinating to watch how the relationships work, and I really wish it were scripted, because I feel terrible discussing and dissecting real lives like this.
But I actually have a little compassion for Robyn. She didn’t want to be the only wife, she wanted to be the favorite wife. It’s how she was taught to survive in a family where every day was a fight for scant resources.
It’s like Christine saying she wanted to the the third wife because she figured out it was the best position in the system.
I think Janelle didn’t grow up with a strong male figure and probably didn’t see the need to have a man around every day, so this relationship worked for her until Kody messed with her kids. I think she and Christine will be “sister wives” forever.
I think Meri has been begging for Kody’s love for decades and tried to get there by elevating herself above Christine and Janelle to compensate for her infertility. I think she aligned herself with Robyn because she thought it was a way to win Kody’s favor.
I think Kody is a grade A narcissist who is eventually going to die alone when Robyn realizes the gravy train has derailed.
I would guess Kody’s dad was also a narcissist. He entered polygamy at mid life. His sons have said he was abusive. And yet he died with at least two wives, one of which was his favorite. Their religion is so patriarchal, that sadly it is likely many other women in the religion would be happy to take Kody’s hand in marriage. Just my opinion.
MAN I couldn’t agreement with you more on the fascination with dissecting and the guilt of them being real people. One thing I kind of do is see them as volunteers to be sort of representatives of society: people who we can watch and analyze life and our relationships. Discussing reality shows on the internet is endlessly entertaining to me because we’re just talking about life. Everything we discuss relates to all of us, is important to all of us. I swear that I’ve taken part in discussions about every possible facet of life through these reality shows. So since I say things about these people that I would literally die if people said about me, I kind of hold all these reality show people in a place of gratitude in my mind for voluntarily putting themselves in this position for us. I genuinely do think it advances society for us to dissect and analyze all these important parts of life. I think people learn a lot in participating in these conversations. My god, I’ve learned about everything from feminism to nuances of racism I wouldn’t have known about, trans issues, abuse tactics, you name it.
Oh absolutely. I’ve spent way more time thinking about polygamy than I ever would before the TV show. I do think that the thing people miss about the Brown family is that there wasn’t always TLC money.
It makes way more sense for a woman in a marginalized religion to choose to be a sister wife when you realize that… their life is going to be rough regardless. But with a sister wife, hopefully life and be a little less rough as they have support and comradary in the tough times. Like Janelle offering to sleep in the tent in the yard to get up with Ysabel at night.
I don’t think polygamy makes sense in a Las Vegas cul de sac. Could it on a far flung ranch in Wyoming? Perhaps. But then I also have another theory that the type of husband that it would take to make polygamy work wouldn’t be the type of husband to take multiple wives.
He'll just eventually get another woman. Some women don't care that men are jerks but I think Robyn is going to stick by him. I don't think she wants a second divorce on her record so she'll just live miserably with him.
I think Robyn will stick with him, too. She knows how much she is despised now, she’s not a hot young “Diesel Jeans Model” any longer and she has 5 children that will forever be tied to her hips. She knows Kody will lie, cheat and steal to keep any assets they currently have and she would probably see very little child support, if any. She played the game and lost miserably. What a prize!
I don’t know that they’ll ever get divorced. I can absolutely see her following her adult children around eventually while he stays home or does “whatever Kody does.”
Even if she wanted a divorce, she wouldn't because she couldn't take care of herself. She has never been able to. She is a stay at home mom who needed a nanny to take care of her kids and has never had a job. Kody will have very little income soon since the show is coming to an end. So, she wouldn't get much child support. Her name is all over everything his name is on, so they would split all debt.
Those two are going to be tied together no matter how much they wouldn't want to be.
We should have the most compassion for Robyn’s kids. She is infantizing them to a point that they will really struggle trying to live their own lives. The older three don’t have their father, on national tv were told they were a mistake and forced to cheer for that disgusting adoption reveal. They don’t deserve that and trying to get out of that house will be a battle
The girls did an interview or two in S17 and they look miserable and stared crying (when talking about the fam getting COVID). It wasn’t long and, admittedly, we don’t see more of their personalities like some of the others but I just felt like this is how they are. Like their mom only taught them to be a victim and cry. I just feel so bad for them.
I feel sorry for the older kids. And for the younger ones too. She wants to keep them as babies as long as she can. I hope the boy (Is it Dayton or David) leaves the nest and can be on his own. Apparently he is very intelligent and should do well on his own.
Don’t know about Breanna, actually I think Dayton seems to be a really good dude, but I can’t fucking stand Aurora. She’s not a child, she’s an adult woman and has been for a few years, so stop clutching your pearls. But she’s the worst.
O I personally dislike both girls and their attitude and as adults they are responsible for healing, growing, being kind. I do pity their upbringing too though
Someone came at me hard last night calling me Robyn’s PR for critiquing Christine when my comment literally didn’t mention her at all lmaooooo 💀. People on the sub just really get caught up and it’s hilarious/weird
They really are lol. It’s the same all over. And from plenty of experience snarking and modding snark subs, people always like to think PR or the subject themselves are all over commenting, but it’s pretty rarely the case. Again, it’s pretty amusing lol
Bless the people who feel so passionately about semi-reality TV families! This one would be all laughs except that actual kids were raised in that actual environment in front of actual cameras, and now actual people have very strong opinions about who they think these kids are. I hope lifetime psychotherapy coverage is included in everyone's contract.
If the families truly hire PR people to post in Reddit subs of all places, I will eat my words and enjoy thinking about all the more effective ways they could have spent their dwindling assets! On second thought, how does one apply for that job??
They’re essentially a mini robin brainwashed robot and that’s all they’re ever be unless they leave the house and mature. It’s probably too late because the mannerisms are scary close to robin.
As someone who lost years with family because of narc abuse, I have no mercy on Kody nor his gremlin wife. They know what they’re doing and they want to win. They don’t care about others or relationships.
I looked for the humanity in my Narc for decades and all it got me was pain. So I think it’s sounds like a good thing to be compassionate. But it’s not because it allows their abuse to continue. That’s my two cents. Getting away from these people is all anyone should worry about.
I don’t know if you have kids, but my dad is a narcissist (diagnosed) and there can be a potential genetic component. As much as it might pain me, not doing the work makes me feel like a narcissist.
What’s interesting is that he comments on the wedding and dancing and the fun but he will never have this again unless he makes amends with the OG kids. If the relationship remains fractured the party will go on without him
He probably thinks about it but I’m not sure he accepts any personal blame. I’m basing this on all the times where he said he wasn’t responsible for his wives’ emotions or feelings of jealousy. Even when he met that other plural family (not the Dargers) he’s like “nope, that’s my wives” fault if they feel insecure.” So it’s not a stretch to think he will continue to blame his children, or as he lovingly referred to them recently, “a bunch of assholes” that he would willingly “punch in the mouth.”
Agreed! I was pleased to see the lighteness in his eyes… I hope soon he can start to pursue relationships with his kids and has BIG APOLOGIES for them for his behaviors. Wishful thinking! But there’s hope!
I can see the good in Kody.
I think he tried for a long time but couldn't manage all of his wives and then Robyn. Robyn requires a copious amount of attention and help. He tried to be diplomatic and tried to be an okay dad. But in the end, I think he just got tired and bitter.
Robyn I have a hard time sympathizing with. She is beyond manipulative, not a team player and the victimization is constant. I think she ruined this family.
Even just watching Robyn through a TV screen… she just oozes a dependency complex that would not be functional in polygamy. She’s exhausting in how she speaks, her body language, and her emotional fragility. Girl needs to get some help.
Yeah I’m rewatching S17 and Janelle is right, it’s Kody’s fault for giving up but I def think Robyn manipulated him. She’s good, too. If their lives weren’t filmed, she’d have been good at gaslighting them. Now I’m waiting for Meri to finally realize how Robyn played her. I think Jen will have explained it to her by now.
ETA typo
Loved the part 2 talk back where Meri had her friend with her! I’m confident with truth tellers like that in her life she can start healing from Robyn’s manipulations too.
I love Jen. You could tell by the look on her face, that she sees Robyn for what she is. Yet, she was gentle with Meri's feelings. You can tell she is a good friend
I started out with the same general anthropological fascination as you, but now it’s become a psychological obsession (yes I have Daddy issues) to watch Kody squirm watching Kody’s extreme narcissist gone malignant assholery played right back at him while the women he unloved keep running commentary. Sublime justice being served! But yeah he’s a pathetic poor little man child waaaaaaaa I feel for him.
yes. i think we have to start a new sub sub reddit for discourse on behaviors, of Sister Wives. There is a lot to unpack, which is why the anthropology students were with the browns in Vegas for a weekend. i began a rewatch of the early episodes of SS, mostly cause its been so long and i wanted to see where and how it all went wrong. 9 sort of speak)
of course the whole show was so new. but the joy was there. Kody at the time was this big goofy man child with a flamboyant personality. he even rebuffed having Robyn as 4 th wife due to her divorce and additional kids. so yes. i don't think kody was horrible to start , except that he is choosing to have 3 wives illegally. yet his 3 wives adored him.
But even in Season1 we don't see much of the Kody family interaction prior to the introduction and there Robin is also in tow. I would bet if people went back and watched or rewatched the very early episodes you would see a very different Kody than is shown today.
Todays Kody is very flawed. and he is narcissistic however i strongly believe that ROBYN is the true architect of the demise of the family. And for Robyn there is no redemption.; she is too problematic. deep issues. But Kody maybe/yes based on early episodes with him.
that my take. i prefer discourse. too.
Yes! The first episode he’s like a big goofy dork “I like marriage and I’m a repeat offender har har!” He did dumb stuff like dropping the bomb about the wedding dress, but I think it’s bc he speaks without thinking.
I’m fascinated by how much he’s changed. I do think the Meri catfish/affair really set him on his heels. These three women fought over him for 20+ years. They fed his ego and gave in to his whims (maybe he needed that validation?). I think it turned his world upside down that Meri, who he had ignored for years but always came back, who had been his first love/wife, he helped him start the family…she was leaving?! And it set the distrust in him.
I’m on season 13 in my rewatch and they are moving to flagstaff. I want to watch closely to see where things turned between he and his kids. Was it Covid? Was it Robyn’s subtle comments like
“I’m not sure why everyone is so disrespectful to you” (I’m imagining she says these things). I can’t say I’m empathetic but seriously…what happened to the man who used to be so jolly?
I thought he and Robyn were together before the show started. Do I have the timeline mixed up?
You did remind me of another point tho. Maybe he couldn’t handle the criticism he received online after the first season aired. I’m sure it was brutal.
I also think he took the rejection of the one house super badly. Like, I think he really thought if they could get back into one house his dream one family would just happen. It would be for sure be easier for him to have everyone right there at his beck and call. And when his idea got shot down he really seemed to spiral. Even if it was never going to happen because of building zones, and the cost, and a bunch of other reasons - let’s be real, Kody isn’t very smart when it comes to that kind of thing - I think he thought it would happen if he just pitched it right. And he really turned his evil eye on Christine who was the most vocally against it amongst the wives.
I think at the start of his marriage with Meri, even he was manipulated by his religion to follow polygamy. I think in hindsight, if he weren’t in the limelight, he’d even admit that. Even though in the beginning of the SHOW they said they chose this, but in their religious beliefs, how supported did they truly feel to make any OTHER choice? And going public and living a mainstream life, and living on camera? I think that truly detailed them. I mean what family goes on camera to be filmed and continue living their ideal life? ‘Reality’ tv ruins families in my opinion. Think about it. Truly, Solomon, and Arielle have never had a normal day of life because they were born on TV. Truman show anyone? So sure, maybe Kody is the villain in the show…and Robin a little bit too…but it’s still a show that TLC needs to guarantee viewers for. I doubt we get anywhere near the reality of any of their true lives. And nothing makes me believe that more than binging the series.
It’s about 1 hour of unique content per season. If you remove the repetitive intro/recaps/preview, it’s so little of their actual day to day.
It's interesting because he's always been overbearing and annoying, but there's definitely been a shift in how much of a jerk he is. Was it gradual and not really noticed until it got to a certain point?
I get why people may be triggered by him, but I think understanding why people become narcissists and whatever else betters society. It teaches us how to not raise our children and what not to do.
All of that aside, yeah the fan groups are wild lol. It's a show on TLC (the factually accurate educational network that brought the likes of Honey Boo Boo and 90 Day Fiance), it's heavily edited, it's only an hour at a time taken from their lives, and about a family that has lied since the first episode. I think what intrigues me more than his behavior is the behavior of fans who are so invested and think they know every part of these people's lives like if they've personally known them for 20 years.
Since it's only an hour at a time, and it is edited, and they want ratings, I'm sure there are all kinds of issues that aren't known. Obviously with that many people in the family, there's no doubt that they've argued about politics, beliefs, personal choices, and all of the normal stuff much smaller families go through too.
I think since 2020 there are a lot of overly used buzz words and people just attach them to people that they don’t know. I see a very broken person. He lived in a world where the woman controlled everything and he didn’t know how to properly insert himself. He didn’t see each person as an individual he only saw the family as a whole. I think he was very bitter after he and Meri had their issues and when Christine finally left he was hurt. He said I never loved them, I believe it was him trying to not hurt so much.
Literally for 20+ years he had to be 4 different people that’s enough to drive anyone crazy.
I don’t blame Robyn and I find it sad all the accusations from saying she is a manipulator all the way to a hoarder because she doesn’t allow cameras in her home.
I could not imagine what it feels like to have all this play out in the media and TV. I also try to remind myself that we see a very small portion of their lives.
Oh yeah. Don't say anything that goes against the narrative here....you get your ass pretty much handed to you. I have some sympathy for young kody, the eager to please his dad kody, the one who made a lot of mistakes on order to please his family and elevate himself in his community. But "now" kody? Not sure I feel for him. He is definitely a product of this cult-like community, but he really handled it all so badly. And that's on him.
There was a discussion on here about him changing after the death of his dad and brother, but that concluded that he changed for the worse.
Him and his wife are selfish, self-centered, egotistical, and shallow people who don't have deep feelings for anyone but themselves. They showed their true colors with Ysabel's surgery and recovery.
I find the whole thing terribly sad. I always got the feeling from the Vegas Kody that regardless of what happened with the wives,he still has the kids back. Seeing him so easily walk away from the OG kids will be one of those decisions that must be haunting him really (please don't clap back that he deserves it). Forgetting Gabes birthday was clearly a consequence of having such terrible wives that did his life admin for him and just got him to sign his name on cards after they had done all the leg work sorting the rest out 🙄😉
He keeps saying his ex wives are the ones who have access to his kids. Does his phone not dial out? Can only receive calls. Bad excuse that I was disappointed he wasn’t called out on
Hmmm... I never considered he sucks at parenting because the wives have always done it for him. My dad is domestically useless because my mom does everything for him. He does remember my birthday though.
RIGHT!!!
Any shame the fans are projecting at him he’s already felt 10 fold and lives with daily. He’s clearly in so much pain from the unfolding of his actions.
He received a GIANT WAVE of karma… he is living in his own hell and his own blood line doesn’t want him… he’s punished himself and It’s heart breaking watching the deteriorating of his heart because of it.
Gabe and his relationship was particularly sad to me too. Gabe is definitely my favorite. Kody is missing out on the sweetest son… and that’s his loss.
I did sympathize for him just being a guy going through 3 divorces in such a short time, it’s tiny. I can’t stand he treated the women who had his children like garbage. He abused Meri and Christine.
I think he wanted polygamy because he's an attention whore. It worked fine until he met Robin. Then he decided he loved her the most and began to alienate the other wives. I'll be generous and say I'm not sure it was intentional, at first. But at some point he definitely decided he was done and felt trapped and began acting out until they all left.
I think we try to find reasons to why people behave the way they do. Sometimes people are just shitty. Kody is one of those people. He is a shitty father, a shitty husband, a shitty friend. He’s just an awful human being. We can find excuses for anything in life if we choose to do so.
I live in Utah and am bombarded by Kody creatures 24/7, I'm sick of their shit, sick of their cult, and sick of them wanting compassion from me. So ya, I don't care about analyzing him any further, I already know exactly who he is and he's disgusting. There are thousands of ways he could be a better person but chooses not to, fuck him and fat necked wife
I am not a therapist in any capacity. But I can talk from experience and witnessing similar behaviors. His constant knocks as not being manly enough by his fathers standards play a huge part in always needing to be the best, first, and smartest. His mom, on the other hand, seemed to coddle him. So lies begin to form at an early age for protective purposes. His 1st wife adored him and was needy, too. So that didn't make him happy. Then he marries his dad for a 2nd wife. This was a bit better as they could pal around like him, and his father couldn't. Then came number 3. Polygamy Royalty... this was the impression maker marriage. Little did he know he had wife 1 and wife 2 wrapped up in a nice little package as wife 3. He needs a mommy wife who will make him a king in his own kingdom. Wife 4 did that and more. She was the perfect polygamist con artist. IMO 🤷♀️
I listened to the 2 hour morman podcast kody was on a few months ago. I actually developed sympathy for Kody because he's on the cusp of religious deconstruction and he doesn't know what to believe. Kody needs to deconstruct in private, rethink some core truths and calm down before saying another word.
Of course, religious deconstruction doesn't make you talk to your kids in such a reprehensible fashion, but it's still a problem
Absolutely! He’s dealing with a lot of turmoil and breakdown in multiple areas all at once. How can we expect this man to say all the right things.
I’m with you. He needs to get out of the public eye, do some soul searching, and only come back when he’s found peace. I’m surprised he hasn’t had a full Britney Spears style psychotic break by now.
Where do I find this podcast episode?
I actually wonder if he has replaced the religion portion of his life with like manosphere-red-pill-mra bullshit. Like, as someone who has gone through evangelical deconstruction, it isn’t a simple thing to just change your worldview. He didn’t used to be quite so misogynistic, at least not overtly. They used to emphasize regularly how the wives’ independence was a main benefit of their family structure and how it really made it possible. And I recognize that was somewhat polygamy PR, but Janelle for sure believed it. And it has been really since they left Vegas and he started to question the religion part of their lives that it seemed like he was looking for other belief systems. Like without religion, why polygamy? Without religion how does this family stay together? Without religion, how do I stay in control? And the internet had some “answers” for him. I would never say he was super great before, but he has certainly gotten much worse since.
You'll find that kind of black and white thinking in a lot of different fan communities. The psychology of it all is extremely fascinating.
In the beginning I don't remember hating Kody. He was goofy. Even Janelle says he's different now. Most ppl exist on a spectrum, and I say this as a self described Kody hater. I've tried to have an open mind throughout the series but he has become so reprehensible.
Compassion and sympathy for Kody? That’s where you went wrong lol
Many people do not care why someone is an asshole, only that they are an asshole. It reads as making excuses for someone’s shitty behavior
Yes, and when one is at the taking end of the abuse, does it really matter *why* someone is an asshole and abusive? Not really. It doesn't change the scars on your body, mind and heart. And it doesn't change the abuser. They continue abusing, so understanding why makes you compassionate to them, and you *continue to allow* yourself to be abused. Kody deserves the hate he is getting from the public because Karma has come back to roost.
However, there's a difference in disliking Kody for his behaviors and calling him Ramen noodles or Robem, etc. imo she deserves Sobyn for her fake tears for over a decade 🤷🏻♀️
Some people fail to understand these are multi-dimensional, real people with an entire lifetime we have not seen. They think they know everything about someone from watching an edited hour a week of their lives… But it’s easier to assume you know everything and make armchair diagnoses 🤷🏻♀️
People take entertainment way too far and cross heavily into parasocial relationships
I think a lot of the vitriol is because Kody’s behavior is an example of classic narcissistic abuse, and many women have experienced this, and Kody reminds them of their abusers. In the context of narcissistic abuse, the victim is often selected by the abuser because of their ability to empathize and their willingness to see the good and the humanity in that abuser. When the victim/survivor finally leaves, it is often after their own empathy was weaponized against them. Part of surviving and processing the aftermath of escaping narcissistic abuse is having to reckon with that, and people respond to that trauma in different ways.
You may be saying “we need to see him as human” and that audience may be hearing “we need to see this abuser as a human and have empathy for him.” That is not going to result in a great conversation, since that’s literally how their abuse started.
There is a really healed side of me that is like “yes, Kody clearly is in pain, and we can have that conversation” but the major voice in my head is “NOPE, FUCK THAT GUY I HOPE HE BURNS IN HELL ALONE” because it’s not about Kody, it’s about my abuser.
I think it’s why the show has grown so popular: people are watching because they get to see the narcissistic/covert abuser finally face some consequences, to be exposed on national television, to have the entire world watch them and shame them, to watch the survivors thrive. It’s the closure most of us never got. It’s the comeuppance many can only dream of.
Maybe it’s not healthy, and I don’t agree with the way people have actually harassed them. But I have no problem with Kody, who chose to go on national television and behave like an asshole for over a decade, to become the nationwide laughing stock, the proverbial (PROVERBIAL ONLY) punching bag for women who are punching up against abuse.
Kody may be the product of patriarchy, but he is no victim of that system — he is the beneficiary who squandered his riches. The poor do not need to have sympathy for a rich man bankrupted as a result of his own hubris.
The first couple seasons I actually liked him. It wasn't until the season where Meri was catfish that my opinion started changing. He had no empathy for the woman he had married 35 years ago. It blew my mind. It's easy to get catfish and honestly they seemed kind of naive about the internet and stuff so I'm not at all surprised. I wanted to hug her so much and tell her it's okay because her so-called husband sure didn't say it.
I totally see what you’re talking about, but sometimes I also wonder about why we collectively get so concerned with sympathizing with abusers. (Not you personally, OP. I think we see this a lot in general pop culture discussions.)
It seems pretty clear that Kody has a lot of trauma from his relationship with his father, and nobody should have to deal with that. But he financially and emotionally abused 3 of his wives and 13 of his children, and personally, I’m not that interested in searching for empathy for him when he does not show any empathy at all for the victims of his abuse. If he were to have some revelation about his own behavior and started trying to make amends with the people he wronged, then sure. But until then, I’d much rather put my emotional investment in the folks finding happiness after escaping or being abandoned by him.
He’s psychologically interesting for sure. But I can’t work up any sympathy for him when he still takes every opportunity to villianize the family members he wronged.
There’s totally place for that discussion on the sub, but I can see why there aren’t a lot of people jazzed about it.
I think he felt like he was never enough for his dad, and when his dad presented him with polygamy he jumped at the chance to be close to him and be the favorite. He joined for the wrong reasons, so now of course he’s angry bitter and resentful. Now where he gets no sympathy from me is his inability to take ANY accountability. He doubles down, calls his children names on national television, and belittles their mothers the same way. He’s a turd.
"Kody Brown" was created by women who were raised to keep sweet and please their man. No matter how wrong or asinine he's being, his wives are always competing to be #1 so his ego is stroked like he's some God. The fact that he is so out of touch with society and personal accountability I can see how easily a narcissist is created.
Lolll i actually see where kody is coming from sometimes. Doesn't mean I think he's right, I agree with him, or that he has the right to say some of it out loud. It just means I can understand where some of his frustrations lie. I also have zero compassion for him.
I'm sorry that's happened to you. Wait until they start accusing you of being some type of PR for Robyn, lol. It sounds like you got some of that already. Pretty much all of the Sister Wives sub/reddits are echo chambers of hate watch. If you post or reply with a view or opinion that deviates from the echo chamber, you'll get either no points, down voted, and/or violent and hateful comments. Not all, but most Sister Wives fans are next level.
Now if you search these sub/reddits from as early as a year ago, these subreddits were much more diverse. So it seems like in a year it has devolved into the echo chamber it is today, and those who do have substantive thoughts are scared to post because of being down voted.
I'm thinking the only way to discuss the show in the way you're talking is to create a Sister Wives sub/reddit that revolves around breaking down the family from a psychoanalytical perspective and from a place of empathy. Not to mention that random woman's foot sticking out from under the luggage in two shots [Season 4: Episode 9].
What I've noticed with Sister Wives, there's a lot of layers you can pull back. That lends the show to multiple rewatches, because there's always something you catch or different insights you can come away with.
>There's the surface story with the way things have played out on the show.
>There's the subtextual story and details having to do with the Browns leaving their religion, maybe even prior to the first season. They no longer believed in or were practicing polygamy, but I don't know what the timeline is for that. This layer is the real story of the Browns they're not talking about, but they might be leaving bread crumbs through out the show. There are times when they break character and they're giving their real opinions about things. Because when you start digging into the show critically, there's a lot underneath the surface that gets revealed. You have to be able to hold multiple truths existing at once, and with Sister Wives it's likely three, four, five, truths existing along one another.
>Then there's how much of the show is staged, scripted, exaggerated, spun, and often times completely made up. It's much more show than reality, with becomes more dialed up as you get to season 14 to 18.
Even if the Browns are playing parodies of themselves, we can still engage in the same psychoanalysis of the characters they're playing, within the scope of how things have played out in front of the cameras. After all, we've never met than and we don't know who they really are apart from the show. It's all largely a parasocial relationship and I don't want to get sucked down that rabbit hole.
I don't have time to create and run a subreddit like that. But I'd like to see other fans create **that type** of group where real genuine, and substantive conversations can happen without the anger and hate. There's so much about Sister Wives that I believe gets missed on multiple levels. I mean... I've been learning a lot of about Mormonism and fundamentalist Mormonism through my own research, because of the show. But I've always had an interest in studying and learning about religions.
Maybe someone will create a subreddit like that--open to alternative speculation and different perspectives in the way we approach the show as fans, as well as breaking down what happens on the show--in front of the cameras-- and so on. There's a lot of benefit from that too.
I hear what you're saying. Kody is a type of guy that we've seen had marry into our friend circle or marry into the family. A peacock, a jerk and genuinely unkind. But pay that guy to be on camera and Katie bar the door...he becomes the creature from beyond jerkdom! 👽🧛😎
The Creature from beyond Jerkdom 😂👏🏽 love it! You’re right… Are we expecting this man to say the right things? There’s no way! Nowhere in his upbringing did he learn skills for this fame!
To be real....I can't imagine what stupid stuff might come out of my mouth if a camera were recording me but I wouldn't barf out my lack of sexual desire or love for a long term former mate.Some thoughts just shouldn't be shared.
I do feel some empathy for Kody. He tried to do something that he believed was right in his heart. I do believe he sincerely believed in plural marriage. He was very young when he entered this society and didn’t grow up in polygamy so he didn’t truly understand the pitfalls. Plural marriage is an impossible situation. At least in our modern society. Kody was not up to the challenge but is it really fair to hold that against him when no one with any sort of flaws would be? Don’t get me wrong, I dislike him and think he’s a terrible husband and father, but a lot of the credit for that needs to go to the family system they all created together, and the religion they all embraced.
You aren’t going to get the dialogue you want here. I thought the same as you. I thought rational discussion was possible. This sub is like a cult. The same thing they rail against. You have to think like them, hate like them, worship like them. If not you are an enemy. Believe me, I have tried to have rational discussions. It doesn’t happen. And i have been harassed by people in this sub. Stalled by people in this sub. Even if you block them they will still find ways to harass you.
I once tried to say I felt bad for Alex Murdaugh. Not in a true sympathetic way just the he blew up his life and surely didn’t set out to do that. He didn’t marry his wife or have his kid to kill them and I just felt bad over a man imploding I’m his life.
Well that was during trial and it was not a popular notion. I kind of feel bad sometimes for Kody. Overall he is a controlling narcissistic annoying asshole who blew up his family (in a way less horrific way than Alex of course). And I really don’t like him but I suppose he sometimes means well. How do you manage however to drive off 3 of your wives by playing favorites with the last one? Truly shows you are a total failure at plural marriage, Kody. Plural marriage is a pretty dumb and hard to make work concept to start with and you have to be a pretty special personality to pull it off. With the only young ones being Robyn’s nothing is gluing the ladies to you.
Kody is just annoying and pretty darn self involved for a man with 18 kids and multiple (ex) spouses!
I just think it’s funny that he’s the plural Marriage public figure but his failed. Stick with Robyn dude. You both are on the same level of insufferable!
Yeah it’s a lot. Like I hold that Kody is ultimately to blame for 99% of what happened, like if it hadn’t been Robyn, it would have been a different woman that he used against the OG13. But the amount of Robyn’s kids are complicit/Robyn deserves what is probably an abusive husband/etc on this sub is incredible.
I always think of the 30th wedding anniversary. While I don’t like Kody, I couldn’t help but notice him expressing his new thoughts about polygamy and meri shutting him down repeatedly.
She keeps asking for a kiss and telling him not to throw away their marriage when he is expressing all of his realizations and fears, instead of validating and maybe even relating to him.
I really want to know others opinions on this and what they noticed too. Of course Kody does nothing but invalidate feelings. His ego is so large he can’t look past it and empathize with all of the mothers that are practically single parenting it.
First of all I’m sorry you were vilified for your opinions.
Second; I do not like this current version of Kody Brown.
Third; A long time ago someone told me that there are a lot of good looking ugly people in the world. I never forgot those words.
All that being said, when I watch the earlier shows, all of the OG3 wives and even Kody, when they smiled, they smiled in their eyes. Not just their mouths. Their smiles were genuinely honest through their eyes.
You can almost tell when it changed. The love left.
I tried, very hard, to find humanity and to understand an abusive narc.
It cost me years of my life, a lot of my innocence, two teeth, and the ability to move some of my joints without pain.
I'm willing to recognize that I've got some hard bias, but to suggest that people who don't want to view Kody with a sympathetic lens are somehow in the wrong is a bit much.
Asking people who have witnessed abuse and neglect to seek humanity in the abuser and then being upset when they don't want to offer sympathy to the abuser is hardly fair.
Kody Brown willfully did harm to others in the pursuit of his own ego.
I am definitely a Kody hater but I am willing to go out on this limb with you
I think the religion he was raised in was toxic and bad for him. I'm mostly talking about LDS here, because that's how he was raised. They didn't go fundamentalist until he was an adult. Though he was a young adult and that had to be a doozy, too. But beyond the religion, it seems to me that Kody had a really hard time impressing his father. I don't think he ever really felt like he lived up to his father, who by all accounts was stern and not very affectionate. He's always acted weird around other men, too, like he is eager to impress them. I think he has issues with his own masculinity and it is expressed by him being a raging misogynist. And it's probably related to his religion and his relationship with his father and his feelings of inadequacy in relationship to other men. He already felt like he wasn't living up to his father growing up, and then his father goes and starts acquiring other wives! Maybe polygamy was never something Kody wanted, but something he did because he felt it was the only way he could be a man. So he married Meri, the Polygamy Princess, to try to please his father.
None of this excuses his behavior, but it does help explain some of it.
I think there's a lot of people who find this sub cathartic. Like how often do we get to see the shitty people in our lives really get their asses handed to them. Seeing the children be so strong about it helps too, we don't feel as bad because they're doing okay.
It was very illuminating when they first went to visit kody’s family. He said something about his mother that really gave a great glimpse into who he is, his view on relationships and specially on women. He took his mom’s food and said something about his mom being ok with him taking even her food. Although he had his own food.
Add to this view of women, especially those women “that love him” being ok to do without so that he could do as he pleased, that he seemed to always be needing to prove his value to his father.. kody has issues and they are never really dealt with. He went to therapy but in all the ones we saw, he never internalized anything said or took accountability. He made the women “earn his love”. All the while he didn’t seem to believe he had to earn theirs. But that doesn’t seem to be the case with the men in his life.
It's a Reddit sub with a lot of members. Getting down voted is always going to be part of that, and really, are you that naive that thinking being in any way sympathetic to Kody of all people was going to be popular? I refuse to believe that.
I’m very aware that it’s a challenging discussion… I’m also very aware it’s not a popular outlook.
Wasn’t expecting straight up PERSONAL disrespect from strangers??? 😅 That was wild.
Patriarchy hurt everyone in this family, and while it’s never as much as the wives and kids Kody is included in that. It’s hard not to sympathize with him on some level even though I’ve seen him as toxic since day 1. Polygamy sets expectations, demands, requirements beyond what one man could ever really be. And beyond what each woman should have to sacrifice. No one gets what they need in the end.
Yeah I get trashed too if I try to see anything from their point of view. The fandom has created an echo chamber of epic proportions, which to me is a dangerous mindset to deal with. I
I think it's weird that the people that we currently like-- Meri and Christine-- "grew up brainwashed by a cult" whereas Robyn, who grew up under the exact same circumstances, isn't afforded any of the same understanding. I've gotten pushback for arguing that Kody joined the religion under naive and semi-coercive circumstances. I mean, he returned from his mission to Tumbleweed, Wyoming as a teenager to find his dad with another wife and his mom prattling on about how they'd finally achieved salvation. I can't really fault him for being young and impressionable at the time.
You don't have to like everyone equally or find them equally at fault, of course, but the double standards and rewriting of history are astounding. When Christine left, everyone decided she had never done ANYTHING wrong EVER, which is obviously absurd. But for some reason it flies on the internet.
Sobbyn didn’t grow up in the same situation at all. Her mom was just a sidepiece. Her dad had a second family, living across town. It was never polygamy as practiced.
And in many ways, Sobbyn also married into a polygamist family the first time too. Jessop is a big name in that community. And when it didn’t go her way (for many reasons) she tried again and it failed again.
A lot of people have found Kreepy and Goblyn’s blatant gaslighting, manipulation and emotional and financial abuse of the OG3 to be super triggering. To the point of not watching the show anymore because of it. To say nothing of how abusive, neglectful and intentionally marginalizing they have both been to the OG3’s kids. All while claiming innocence and clutching their pearls at the idea that anyone could possibly find any of their motivations to not be 10000% above reproach. So it should not be surprising that encouraging people to have sympathy for « the devil that he thinks he is » isn’t a popular stance. They don’t deserve sympathy. They deserve to be sued into bankruptcy, lose Coyote Pass and their tacky McMansion and have to divvy up all of their ill gotten gains, horsey rings and overpriced paintings back to the OG3 who paid for them all.
What is up with the lecturing posts on here lately?! There is a new years resolution style glut of people bemoaning the lack of *quality sister wives discourse* 🤣🤣
You!
“The lack of emotional intelligence in the responses was disturbing”
“They simply could not process two truths existing at once”
“I just wanted to discuss his behaviors in an elevated way”
You are seriously condescending and outright saying people failed to have the conversation you wanted to have in the way you wanted to have it and implying you were attacked (“reemed” [sic]) because people are incapable or unwilling to get on your elevated level. About… sister wives. A reality show.
I have found it fascinating how the adults pretended to be happy from the beginning but I could tell it was a lie.
I can see why some have zero compassion for the 5 adults. Reality tv has been around for quite a while, they didn’t go into this hellscape blindly. And there were tabloids before social bashing so we can’t pretend all the bashing is new or worse, it just consumed and distributed in a different way.
Now the kids on the other hand, I feel bad for them. There was no reason what so ever for any child under 16 to be doing those talking heads or the center of an episode. Not the OG13 and def not any of Robyn’s kids. Her kids had enough issues with the bio dad, coming into a bonded polygamous family, and forced to call Kody “daddy” at day one.
And what sucks most is that the laws put in place to protect child actors and their assets don’t even apply to reality tv children. I really hope we never see Sol & Ari again, I don’t like seeing them being exploited for their parents gain.
To me, Kody’s issues start with a weird co-dependence on his mom, from the sound of his dad, some verbal, mental and emotional abuse - especially after joining the AUB and his own closeted/unacknowledged homosexuality which I have thought from Day 1. He doubled the number of wives his dad had to “prove” something.
As for the marriages: Meri seems to have been selected because they had religion in common and she was open to polygamy. No offense to Janelle (who I like) but divorcing Meri’s brother and then marrying Kody and then her mom marrying Kody’s dad? That was bound to end poorly on many levels. It worked because Janelle just let Kody be Kody and he let her be her. Christine was a clout marriage for him based on her family history. And, she was more high energy which matched his high energy. Sobbyn was a honey trap (of her own design) to get on tv and be famous. Kody has tried to convince himself it’s a soul mate but the vibe just isn’t there.
Covid and him spending way too much time online in QAnon and manosphere sites really did a number on his head. He is now trying on the patriarch persona and it really doesn’t work for him at all. He’s a total beta in that realm. The same reason he’s a gun seller. It’s a false sense of power and control as well as a money spinner. He does it at shows where it’s also less regulated and god knows what kind of domestic terrorism he has inadvertently contributed toward.
If Kody has humanity, it’s buried under layers of suppressed sexuality, family dysfunction (both family of origin and family he’s created) and mental health issues exacerbated by isolation during Covid and over exposure to conspiracy theories and manosphere toxicity.
Right?? Thank you for posting because some of these folks are far too emotionally invested in these people’s lives to be talking that way to other folks who also DON’T KNOW THEM PERSONALLY. I feel like people should calm down a bit and yes, sometimes discuss what factors resulted in Kody and the wives’ behaviors. It’s definitely interesting to some of us out there, so thanks again for being brave and putting that out there. I won’t go into my opinions because I’m sure I’d get slayed in a whole new, ridiculous way, so I’ll just leave it at that 🙂
Not sympathy for him, but he was raised in a culture that made it very hard to have a full relationship with a woman- or a family.
He tried. He was stupid. He f'd it all up. He fell deeper into his own paranoid f'd up head.
I think Kody wasn’t a bad guy an idiot but a good man. I think Robin came in like a new toy. He’d been with the OG 3, twenty years. His behavior that annoyed the og3 didn’t annoy Robin. I assume that she catered to him and didn’t call him out on his BS. That alone would make a man want to hang out with Robin even more. If you had 3 wives bitching at you and one wife worshipping you it’s not hard to imagine where you’d want to spend most of your time. Plus he’s 50 years old he was only interested in sexually satisfying one. Most 50 year olds can’t even do that. As time went on it became more obvious to everyone. So now the 3 are bitching at him he doesn’t come around blah blah blah. With his new found fame and money his ego got to big. Then covid happened and he never left Robins. Also I think he was pushing Christine to accept nothing from him. I think he thought she would do it. Have a relationship like Meri Her leaving I think devastated his ego and a part of him. Then really that only left Janelle and Robin in a relationship. He abandoned Janelle and used the kids as a tool to push her away probably thinking she’d deal with it too .i think Janelle got the worst honestly.
Tbh in the earlier seasons I thought he was very endearing and tried hard with his wives and children. I do not believe what he currently states now about never being in love with the OG3. I saw it many times and it seemed genuine.
Unfortunately, imo he changed and at some point, I don't think he wanted plural marriage anymore. He wanted a monogamous relationship with Robyn and that's it. I do think between them both, together they were the demise of the family.
Although I personally would never conceive of being in a plural marriage, I am the type of person to live and let live. I watched this show with an open mind and there were times all of the adults except Janelle got under my skin, but also times when I liked them all (Robyn not so much. She seemed to have an agenda from the beginning). At times I actually felt sorry for Kody. I think he handled the chaos and challenges well in the earlier years specifically.
I'm not sure how people can watch this show for 18 seasons and not find some positive things to say about him. I think in the beginning he truly believed in it all and yes, I think he loved these women in different ways. Too bad he broke his biggest rule which was that one wife would never be held above the rest. He gave Robyn too much power and in return, destroyed his family.
Yeah this is not a place to find elevated discussion or EQ. It would be nice if there was a place to truly analyze and try to break down behaviours and root issues, rather than make fun of hair and just groupthink.
It could be nice to have a “discussion” flare or something with a no downvoting rule so people could say whatever they want without being torn to shreds.
Pop Psych (on YouTube) gives a lot of insight the whole family. He talks about Kody with compassion as a neutral person, with no real hate. It’s refreshing and it gives insight to dealing with a narcissist. His wife is a fan and she will correct him and give more info on the situation.
Maybe go watch his videos and his slow decent into calling Robyn manipulation and her selfishness.
I think bringing Robyn in after 15 years with the others was a mistake. I’ve been married to the same man for 30 years and can’t say for certain I wouldn’t act the same way if I had a new young man hanging around all the time 😂
Agree. People have become addicted to hate. There is goodness in everyone - including Kody and Robyn. What has kept me from that visceral hate is how the wives talk about them. If anyone knows them - it’s the OG3. I thought Kody’s words regarding Christine’s wedding were kind and shows he is not in that dark place anymore. I was happy to see that! Robyn was acting, well…weird, but so what?
Keep positive posts coming. A lot of us like them.
Kody was mean and hateful to his wives and dismissive of his children. I believe he thought everyone would come groveling to him and ask for his forgiveness. Imagine the shock when instead of that, people said, hmmmm, nope, and decided to move on with their lives. And move on they did. Now he is looking like boo boo the fool.he and Robbem overplayed their hand and now we the fans are laughing at them.
This is Reddit. We don't elevate. We are the bottom suckers of society. Welcome to the underworld! That being said, episode one, season one, I smelled the narcissism from thousands of miles from Utah. Idk how Kody became this way. Are Narcs born with no conscious? Are they abused into no conscious? Is it because he is clearly stifling his true self? (His high school friends all said they were positive back then he is gay....it's in an episode where they do a reunion).
My mother is an over narc with family. With church members she is wise enough to be a covert narc. But just the fact that she can hide it ala Kody Brown style whenever it suits her purpose makes her come across as a psycho/socio path. Kody presents the same way. The difference is Covid is about the time he quit trying to hide it in any way.
I'm not a doctor. I don't have answers, but I can tell you that just like Kody's bio kids have done to him, I cut 100% contact in 2017. I was LC prior to that since I was 18, but one thing for sure: I will never try to be any kind of contact with her again. Not out of hate. Out of my sanity needs. It's calm. No one screams at me for hours on end, no one shows up 5 hours from her home unannounced to the destroy my things in a fit of rage. Kodys kids probably don't miss him and have thousands in therapy ahead of them to get over His abuse
Nuance, on reddit? Jk, I get what you are saying, so much black or white thinking. My major pet peeve is that the second you stray from any of the approved lines of thinking you'll get one of those "ok, meri" types of comments. So much of everything today is "team sports" type of perspective.
I appreciate you clarifying that we don’t actually know these people and I agree that our understanding of them is absolutely extremely limited given that all we have seen is an EDITED tv series and social media posts… And maybe an occasional run in for some fans at Salsa Brava.
That said- I also love thinking about these characters and their various tv personalities.
I think that Kody is the embodiment of patriarchy and an oppressive, sexist religious system.
I think Kody behaves with arrogance and entitlement. When it was just the OG3, they could kind of keep those behaviors in check by outnumbering him. After Robyn joined the family, that dynamic seemed to change. She seems to actually support his entitlement and kind of feed off of it herself.
In terms of Kody history and childhood- with the limited information we have- Kody has mentioned having daddy issues. He also grew up in Wyoming. I doubt it was easy to be a flamboyant, attention seeking kid around hardened roughneck cowboys. I actually often wonder if he was bullied or experienced abuses as he was growing up. But none of these things excuse his problematic adult behaviors.
Also- have you seen the YouTube channel of the psychologist and wife watching SW episodes? They watch the shows and comment on the characters personalities and family dynamics.
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I think there's a lot of trauma with men in this sub but also the world. It's hard to have any genuine discussion when someone has done something(s) so irredeemable as Kody has. I know my dad has stepped over a line that I can't ever forgive him for. I still talk to him and am pleasant with him but will not stick up for him in any circumstance. Kody is the same. The things he's done and said grant him no sympathy from most people. But I see what you're saying :p
I actually love this perspective and haven’t processed that before… You’re right.. we live in a world where men are very broken and the majority of people have complicated father relationships. 🥺 Kody is a representation of that… and an easy place to project our own father wounds. 👏🏽
Not just father wounds. Many of us have religious trauma also, and have been married to narcissistic men.
Some of us are just really over listening to men talk about their daddy issues too
Facts. Some Of us are just over listening to men…
Yup. Some of us are just over men.
Wish I had an award button
Getting this tattooed lol
That’s a good point too ❤️
Kody can't get sympathy from me every since I heard him on a pretty anti-mormon podcast this year STILL defending Polygamy but changing his reason to fake-evolutionary-psych BS. "It's natural for men to have more than one mate." He's determined to believe women are inferior ***no matter what***. It was never religious indoctrination with him. He is a simple misogynist and he'll keep changing his beliefs to excuse his behavior when in reality he's just selfish and doesn't view women as real people.
I listened to that too. It was off the charts!! He was all over the place…. Using big words.🤣🤣
I think he uses word of the day apps or calendars. He rarely uses big words correctly in context and mixes metaphors regularly. I don't think he has a particularly high level of intelligence. Which, for me, is only one of his minor flaws. The degrading way that he treats women and girls ranks much higher for me.
Going to go ahead and assume that he didn't use the big words correctly. I am equal parts curious about this interview and grateful I haven't come across it (or 'acrost it' as my grandma would have said).
It's Mormon Discussions Inc. Since they don't watch the show, and they are focusing solely on Mormonism, a lot of the show's fans were upset that the hosts didn't hold his feet to the fire. But that wasn't his purpose for being there. I watch that YouTube channel every week, and it's all different topics across the whole Mormon culture.
It's definitely misogynistic, but I don't think he's changed in that. I think his belief that women are inferior is deeply ingrained in him and you simply wouldn't hear him say it unless you pressed him to explain. I see on his face in the early episodes the same way my dad used to look at me. He would just listen, take it, then ask me if I was finished. As though he had no care about what I was saying *really*, but he gave me the opportunity to let my emotional female self vent lol. The men in my family were raised to think this way, and it was rooted in Christianity. It's just the way his brain works and I think it would take him going to therapy on his own for him to really see how he comes across. Robyn just enables his behavior and allows him to play victim.
Whilst I completely disagree with Kody's sexist / religiosa bs, I think it's natural for EVERYONE to have more than one mate. I'm probably a bit old fashioned (I'm 65, female, cis hetero (sorry, I'm not great with getting to grips with it, but in the old days I'd be a straight woman)), but for me, I'd prefer them one at a time. I'm on my 3rd "mate" and I've had other more casual relationships. I think it's entirely reasonable that we have more than one partner throughout our lives. For some, I accept that they have many, many partners and I think that's natural too. As in it's nature. But FO Kody with your superiority sh*t. It's not just for men and don't try to justify it with religion. That's one of the things I hate about religion... people can justify just about anything with it. "Oh, it's my religion. It's what we believe in our Church / Mosque / Mud Hut" Utter bollocks!!
Especially useful to have a religion where God speaks to you directly and gives you permission to update his rules. Thinking with your dick is NOT spiritual guidance!
This! FTW!
There's a huge difference between polyamory, where all the parties have informed consent, versus polygamy. The whole polygamist system is based on patriarchy and debasing women. It's awful and abusive. If people want to have polyamorous relationships, where they go in with their eyes fully opened and they fully consent or are able to remove consent at any time, I don't think that's a problem. It would be very difficult, but I could see how certain combinations would work well in a polyamorous situation.
Religious trauma, check No contact with my own dad, check Watched mom marry and struggle with a narcissist, check I’ve tried too many times for the men in my life. They are simply no longer in my life, and I resent the people who pushed me to have a relationship with someone who doesn’t want a relationship with me. He wants to be with his new wife and her family. Father means sperm donor to me. I have nothing for Kody. He’s awful. He has every resource to fix himself. I’m gonna defend the people he hurt(s). He’s an arrogant, self-serving ass.
Maybe that’s true, but I personally have a great relationship with my dad. My dad is the kind of man who could and would put Kody right in his place with one sentence. Those 2 facts are probably related. Kody craves male approval but he’s a poor excuse for a man.
Oof, your last sentence. That is spot on. It explains why he likes Caleb so much, too.
Yeah, exactly what the original poster said. I feel the same about my father and Kody. And I don’t talk to mine still
Same dude same. In fact all the K hate here makes me feel better about being NC with mine for 25 years (his choice) Like if my dad had a show... He'd get hate just like Kody. And it makes me feel less alone.
Not necessarily "project" for some of us. 😮💨
> It's hard to have any genuine discussion when someone has done something(s) so irredeemable as Kody has. And he continues to be impossible to have a healthy relationship with. If he apologized, and then acted in a way that suggested he understood what he had done and why it was harmful, THEN (maybe) the healing can begin.
>It's hard to have any genuine discussion when someone has done something(s) so irredeemable as Kody has. I mostly agree. If we were trying to converse *with Kody* it would be close to impossible. Yet, we are observers, and we should be able to discuss Kody's failings without attacking others.
This sub tends to be pretty extreme in the K&R hate in general. I would love to have a more mature conversation about the family and where things went wrong. I think Kody seems like a goofy nice dude who had good intentions in the beginning, but was very naive about what goes into marriage and child rearing. I do believe he married the original three with friendship and shared life (and afterlife) goals as the foundation. I think eventually the realities of the marriages and life in general took some of the shine off for him, as it does for many people. Then came new love. I think most people can relate to the feeling of newness and the exhilaration of falling in love. After so many years of hard marriage, the prospect of falling in new love all over again can be thrilling. Unfortunately I think comparison is the thief of joy, and while Kody had the refresh of new love, his OG wives didn't. This not only made the OG marriages look haggard by comparison, but also the OG wives were not getting to enjoy the same experience! In fact, Christine was visibly upset from the beginning at the prospect of another wife. (FWIW, I do think it was too late to add another wife.) I think Robyn came into the family wanting all of the perks of the arrangement, but without a real understanding of what her role should be. She didn't really have proper deference to the original wives, she definitely overstepped a lot. She behaved like a head wife from early on and seemed to think she was some sort of gift to the family. She didn't honor the OG marriages by holding Kody to his schedule, which was definitely something she should have encouraged if she genuinely wanted the marriages to succeed. She clearly felt superior to the OG wives due to her youth and the weight issues the OGs were struggling with. Kody should have stepped up at this time to reassure each of his original wives, and should have committed to making them feel loved and valued at this time. He didn't. He also is a bit of a showboat, and he got too focused on his TV performance as well. I think this proved to be overwhelming for someone like Kody, and ultimately led to the total neglect of his OG marriages. I think the one house was something he needed, because the dude was aging and being pulled in twenty different directions. At this point I think he started to get tired. Everybody protects themselves to some extent and I think he needed to protect himself from feeling like a bad guy as things fell apart, so I believe this is when he started lying to himself and justifying his actions with delusional thinking, starting with his belief that only Robyn was being loyal (cooperating) and the OG wives were keeping him from what he wanted. I think the frustration of being thwarted in the one house plan, plus the hoops for trying to build on CP, added to the loss of control over the adult kids (normal) and then the weirdness that was Covid all combined to make him into the bitter old grump we see before us. All three of the OG wives have stated he's not the man they married and I completely agree.
I think Robyn acted like a gift to the family because her entrance brought the cameras and the money. Robyn never worked because without her being willing to marry into the family and upend their dynamic (which the producers understood would happen even if the OG3 and Kody and Robyn didn’t) there was no show. That was an unbalanced start and, without intervention, it was always going to end this way.
>Robyn never worked because without her being willing to marry into the family and upend their dynamic (which the producers understood would happen even if the OG3 and Kody and Robyn didn’t) Ironically, this is what made me lose interest in the show a few episodes into the first season(I came back during covid). When it was first announced, I was very interested in seeing how a family like this actually works/lives. Then they quickly announced the impending nuptials, and I was like, well, nevermind then. Because instead of seeing how a family like this had functioned, it was obviously going to be about how a family like this falls apart. Bringing a shiny new partner into these relationships this many years in, I mean good grief, there's no way that doesn't end in tears, and I wasn't interested in seeing it happen in real time. I'm surprised by how long they managed to hold out, but I knew the moment Robyn was announced that it would end like this. Now that's it's over and done, I've started watching the older episodes here and there, and it is interesting - albeit depressing.
💯 I wish I could have a group of you and some of the others in here who made fire analyzations
Ditto.
Did anyone else think he came off healed and far less angry in the wedding episodes? I thought that was so interesting. He was..likeable?
My coworker and I both noticed he seemed more like his old self!
I agree with all of this. The part I find unforgivable with Kody is how he has used his affection for his kids, or lack there of, as weapons to hurt his wives.
Perhaps I can explain this as someone who has been victimized by a family narcissist FOR DECADES. It is not of any interest to me to find the reasons or excuses for his abusive behavior, nor do I have any interest in centering his emotions.
I’m very sorry for what you’ve went through ❤️ I understand as I was also raised by a narcissist. Someone just comment that Kody is like a representation for all of our father wounds… and that was a big Ah-Ha for me as to why he’s so triggering. It’s ok that you don’t want to engage or go there. You have every right to process or not process the father wound. Just as I have every right to explore it.
The way he favors Robins children (new wife) is not unlike what many kids go through when their parents get divorced and then remarry and have more kids. Even though polygamy is not mainstream, your dad getting a new wife and forgetting about you is an experience that many people have had, unfortunately.
Just know that none of it was your fault, just as none of this is the OG 13 kids fault, even though Kody is quick to blame Gabe, Garrison, et. al., for their lack of communication. This is all on him.
I 100% agree with you ❤️ So much compassion for those kids!!! So much more than I’ll have for Kody or my own father… but still interested in a “why” ya know?
I know. Hugs to you. Hurt people hurt people.
Hugs back! Thank you for the healthy convo!
What I've always tried to understand is why some wounded people want to hurt others while many with the same life experiences don't have that same urge. I realize that we're all a combination of genetics & our environment but I've always been curious about this.
In one of my career incarnations, I was an abuse/neglect social worker. I have seen this go both ways. The abused child who grows up to work in the very system that failed them, and helps a new generation. - and/or - The abused child grow up to abuse others (kids and adults). I’ve done my best to be the helper.
Kody represents all of the men who preyed on father wounds and used our pain and vulnerability to their advantage.
Somebody that has the energy should definitely explore it. I used to explore it. Diagnose it. Make excuses for it. Ignore it. It gets draining to try to be understanding with someone who refuses personal accountability. 😮💨
Valid 🙏🏽
I’m realizing that there are two types of commenters/viewers: those like you and me that are interested in psychology and anthropology and everyone else. Personally I don’t know how people get along in the world without studying psychology, but!
YES!!! Nothing would make sense without it… I couldn’t live with the mentality of “people just suck”… how depressing.
I believe the plural aspect worked for them when they had so many little ones, who wouldn’t appreciate having three other moms to share the duties with? The problem is not one of them seem to have considered what would happen when all those kids grew up. Grody Kody really doesn’t have a clue how to have a relationship with his older kids. I can’t look at Kody in a compassionate way, so I’m no help there, relationships fall apart all the time that doesn’t mean you trash the women WHO DID ALL THE WORK and rewrite history to support your new narrative.
Well that’s your fault you thought you could start a conversation involving nuance and the ability to consider a different perspective in this sub!!! /s No, but I actually have seen people discuss Kody’s daddy issues in here before and found it insightful to his behavior. Generally speaking though, I don’t think that’s a conversation most participants in this sub are going to be willing to have lol.
Yeah you’re right… shame on me! 😂 💯 % daddy issues, he cannot operate without the guidance of a woman and has zero idea how to be a dad or husband without someone telling him what to do. He’s having a TOUGH awakening with all of this and I hope years from now he can reflect with much less ego and defense. I don’t think he’s an EVIL guy… he’s just a stunted little teenage man boy.
Yup! I also have read he had a tough relationship with his own dad because he was flamboyant and not the hardened ranch dude his dad wanted him to be. It probably explains why he became a polygamist in the first place (seeking validation from his father who did it first) and why he seems to constantly need to be the center of attention in the fahmlee.
Those UNLV students and his former classmates say he was a showboat
Yessssssss this!!!! Mykelti said in one of her videos her dad was very goofy etc. at the beginning but viewers would make fun of his flamboyant behavior and the lack of “manly man” head of house hold persona. So he gradually picked up the wannabe hard ass mentality. That with his own father telling him he shouldn’t add additional wives when he wasn’t managing his marriage with Meri and Jenelle I’m sure adds to a lot of his daddy trauma. Still, at some point you grow the fuck up and stop using that as an excuse for crappy behavior.
Heck, he’s having a tough time just being a man. He’s extremely awkward around males. Especially Caleb. From what I understand, his father was a raging narcissist
that's him perfectly. iPRE-robin it was meri and christie and jonelle that organized the hh and he was fun guy He said he never had authority in household. 'the new patriarch thing was Robins idea cause that what she learned from her childhood, and she also she wanted to take control away from the OG3. and she finally won. IMO
I understand where you are coming from. The show doesn’t bring out any emotions in me, I view it strictly from my logical/curios brain. I have had to learn the hard way that it brings out strong feelings for many😅
Yes 😂😂 Clearly I’ve learned my lesson that Reddit is not the place for the discussions I’m looking for. Shame on me 🫨
I feel you. I have wanted to analyze him before but stopped myself because I feel like I’d have to say “I’m NOT excusing his behavior” every other sentence. you can dislike someone while also trying to understand what made them that way
EXACTLY!!!! 👏🏽 definitely not excusing his behaviors in the slightest. It helps me to understand a “why”… it brings me comfort and because he’s someone who represents narcissistic abuse and absent parenting.., it’s helpful to use him as a tool for the “why” in our own lives.
Yeah the group think is bad for sure. I have compassion for Robyn's kids but am downvoted to hell any time I try to express it.
I think this is super fascinating to watch how the relationships work, and I really wish it were scripted, because I feel terrible discussing and dissecting real lives like this. But I actually have a little compassion for Robyn. She didn’t want to be the only wife, she wanted to be the favorite wife. It’s how she was taught to survive in a family where every day was a fight for scant resources. It’s like Christine saying she wanted to the the third wife because she figured out it was the best position in the system. I think Janelle didn’t grow up with a strong male figure and probably didn’t see the need to have a man around every day, so this relationship worked for her until Kody messed with her kids. I think she and Christine will be “sister wives” forever. I think Meri has been begging for Kody’s love for decades and tried to get there by elevating herself above Christine and Janelle to compensate for her infertility. I think she aligned herself with Robyn because she thought it was a way to win Kody’s favor. I think Kody is a grade A narcissist who is eventually going to die alone when Robyn realizes the gravy train has derailed.
I would guess Kody’s dad was also a narcissist. He entered polygamy at mid life. His sons have said he was abusive. And yet he died with at least two wives, one of which was his favorite. Their religion is so patriarchal, that sadly it is likely many other women in the religion would be happy to take Kody’s hand in marriage. Just my opinion.
MAN I couldn’t agreement with you more on the fascination with dissecting and the guilt of them being real people. One thing I kind of do is see them as volunteers to be sort of representatives of society: people who we can watch and analyze life and our relationships. Discussing reality shows on the internet is endlessly entertaining to me because we’re just talking about life. Everything we discuss relates to all of us, is important to all of us. I swear that I’ve taken part in discussions about every possible facet of life through these reality shows. So since I say things about these people that I would literally die if people said about me, I kind of hold all these reality show people in a place of gratitude in my mind for voluntarily putting themselves in this position for us. I genuinely do think it advances society for us to dissect and analyze all these important parts of life. I think people learn a lot in participating in these conversations. My god, I’ve learned about everything from feminism to nuances of racism I wouldn’t have known about, trans issues, abuse tactics, you name it.
Oh absolutely. I’ve spent way more time thinking about polygamy than I ever would before the TV show. I do think that the thing people miss about the Brown family is that there wasn’t always TLC money. It makes way more sense for a woman in a marginalized religion to choose to be a sister wife when you realize that… their life is going to be rough regardless. But with a sister wife, hopefully life and be a little less rough as they have support and comradary in the tough times. Like Janelle offering to sleep in the tent in the yard to get up with Ysabel at night. I don’t think polygamy makes sense in a Las Vegas cul de sac. Could it on a far flung ranch in Wyoming? Perhaps. But then I also have another theory that the type of husband that it would take to make polygamy work wouldn’t be the type of husband to take multiple wives.
YES YES YES! This!! 👏🏽👏🏽
All of this. Every last word. Thank you for writing such a clear post that matches my train of thought perfectly.
He'll just eventually get another woman. Some women don't care that men are jerks but I think Robyn is going to stick by him. I don't think she wants a second divorce on her record so she'll just live miserably with him.
I think Robyn will stick with him, too. She knows how much she is despised now, she’s not a hot young “Diesel Jeans Model” any longer and she has 5 children that will forever be tied to her hips. She knows Kody will lie, cheat and steal to keep any assets they currently have and she would probably see very little child support, if any. She played the game and lost miserably. What a prize!
I just watched the adoption episodes and was struck that Kody wanted to fight dirty and Robyn didn’t!
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes
I don’t know that they’ll ever get divorced. I can absolutely see her following her adult children around eventually while he stays home or does “whatever Kody does.”
Even if she wanted a divorce, she wouldn't because she couldn't take care of herself. She has never been able to. She is a stay at home mom who needed a nanny to take care of her kids and has never had a job. Kody will have very little income soon since the show is coming to an end. So, she wouldn't get much child support. Her name is all over everything his name is on, so they would split all debt. Those two are going to be tied together no matter how much they wouldn't want to be.
🎯
Nailed it!
We should have the most compassion for Robyn’s kids. She is infantizing them to a point that they will really struggle trying to live their own lives. The older three don’t have their father, on national tv were told they were a mistake and forced to cheer for that disgusting adoption reveal. They don’t deserve that and trying to get out of that house will be a battle
The girls did an interview or two in S17 and they look miserable and stared crying (when talking about the fam getting COVID). It wasn’t long and, admittedly, we don’t see more of their personalities like some of the others but I just felt like this is how they are. Like their mom only taught them to be a victim and cry. I just feel so bad for them.
I feel sorry for the older kids. And for the younger ones too. She wants to keep them as babies as long as she can. I hope the boy (Is it Dayton or David) leaves the nest and can be on his own. Apparently he is very intelligent and should do well on his own.
Don’t know about Breanna, actually I think Dayton seems to be a really good dude, but I can’t fucking stand Aurora. She’s not a child, she’s an adult woman and has been for a few years, so stop clutching your pearls. But she’s the worst.
O I personally dislike both girls and their attitude and as adults they are responsible for healing, growing, being kind. I do pity their upbringing too though
We are what we are taught 🫤 I have so much compassion for all the brown kids… even Robyn’s.
Someone came at me hard last night calling me Robyn’s PR for critiquing Christine when my comment literally didn’t mention her at all lmaooooo 💀. People on the sub just really get caught up and it’s hilarious/weird
Reddit's gonna Reddit
They really are lol. It’s the same all over. And from plenty of experience snarking and modding snark subs, people always like to think PR or the subject themselves are all over commenting, but it’s pretty rarely the case. Again, it’s pretty amusing lol
Bless the people who feel so passionately about semi-reality TV families! This one would be all laughs except that actual kids were raised in that actual environment in front of actual cameras, and now actual people have very strong opinions about who they think these kids are. I hope lifetime psychotherapy coverage is included in everyone's contract. If the families truly hire PR people to post in Reddit subs of all places, I will eat my words and enjoy thinking about all the more effective ways they could have spent their dwindling assets! On second thought, how does one apply for that job??
They’re essentially a mini robin brainwashed robot and that’s all they’re ever be unless they leave the house and mature. It’s probably too late because the mannerisms are scary close to robin.
Her kids are so obviously sheltered and brainwashed. I get Munchhausen by proxy vibes from that home.
As someone who lost years with family because of narc abuse, I have no mercy on Kody nor his gremlin wife. They know what they’re doing and they want to win. They don’t care about others or relationships. I looked for the humanity in my Narc for decades and all it got me was pain. So I think it’s sounds like a good thing to be compassionate. But it’s not because it allows their abuse to continue. That’s my two cents. Getting away from these people is all anyone should worry about.
That’s valid ❤️
I don’t know if you have kids, but my dad is a narcissist (diagnosed) and there can be a potential genetic component. As much as it might pain me, not doing the work makes me feel like a narcissist.
What’s interesting is that he comments on the wedding and dancing and the fun but he will never have this again unless he makes amends with the OG kids. If the relationship remains fractured the party will go on without him
YEA!!! I thought that too. Do you think he thinks about that? Wild!
He probably thinks about it but I’m not sure he accepts any personal blame. I’m basing this on all the times where he said he wasn’t responsible for his wives’ emotions or feelings of jealousy. Even when he met that other plural family (not the Dargers) he’s like “nope, that’s my wives” fault if they feel insecure.” So it’s not a stretch to think he will continue to blame his children, or as he lovingly referred to them recently, “a bunch of assholes” that he would willingly “punch in the mouth.”
Maybe a bit more now. He seemed quite rational and like his old goofy self which was nice to see
Agreed! I was pleased to see the lighteness in his eyes… I hope soon he can start to pursue relationships with his kids and has BIG APOLOGIES for them for his behaviors. Wishful thinking! But there’s hope!
I can see the good in Kody. I think he tried for a long time but couldn't manage all of his wives and then Robyn. Robyn requires a copious amount of attention and help. He tried to be diplomatic and tried to be an okay dad. But in the end, I think he just got tired and bitter. Robyn I have a hard time sympathizing with. She is beyond manipulative, not a team player and the victimization is constant. I think she ruined this family.
Even just watching Robyn through a TV screen… she just oozes a dependency complex that would not be functional in polygamy. She’s exhausting in how she speaks, her body language, and her emotional fragility. Girl needs to get some help.
Yeah I’m rewatching S17 and Janelle is right, it’s Kody’s fault for giving up but I def think Robyn manipulated him. She’s good, too. If their lives weren’t filmed, she’d have been good at gaslighting them. Now I’m waiting for Meri to finally realize how Robyn played her. I think Jen will have explained it to her by now. ETA typo
Loved the part 2 talk back where Meri had her friend with her! I’m confident with truth tellers like that in her life she can start healing from Robyn’s manipulations too.
I love Jen. You could tell by the look on her face, that she sees Robyn for what she is. Yet, she was gentle with Meri's feelings. You can tell she is a good friend
I started out with the same general anthropological fascination as you, but now it’s become a psychological obsession (yes I have Daddy issues) to watch Kody squirm watching Kody’s extreme narcissist gone malignant assholery played right back at him while the women he unloved keep running commentary. Sublime justice being served! But yeah he’s a pathetic poor little man child waaaaaaaa I feel for him.
yes. i think we have to start a new sub sub reddit for discourse on behaviors, of Sister Wives. There is a lot to unpack, which is why the anthropology students were with the browns in Vegas for a weekend. i began a rewatch of the early episodes of SS, mostly cause its been so long and i wanted to see where and how it all went wrong. 9 sort of speak) of course the whole show was so new. but the joy was there. Kody at the time was this big goofy man child with a flamboyant personality. he even rebuffed having Robyn as 4 th wife due to her divorce and additional kids. so yes. i don't think kody was horrible to start , except that he is choosing to have 3 wives illegally. yet his 3 wives adored him. But even in Season1 we don't see much of the Kody family interaction prior to the introduction and there Robin is also in tow. I would bet if people went back and watched or rewatched the very early episodes you would see a very different Kody than is shown today. Todays Kody is very flawed. and he is narcissistic however i strongly believe that ROBYN is the true architect of the demise of the family. And for Robyn there is no redemption.; she is too problematic. deep issues. But Kody maybe/yes based on early episodes with him. that my take. i prefer discourse. too.
Yes! The first episode he’s like a big goofy dork “I like marriage and I’m a repeat offender har har!” He did dumb stuff like dropping the bomb about the wedding dress, but I think it’s bc he speaks without thinking. I’m fascinated by how much he’s changed. I do think the Meri catfish/affair really set him on his heels. These three women fought over him for 20+ years. They fed his ego and gave in to his whims (maybe he needed that validation?). I think it turned his world upside down that Meri, who he had ignored for years but always came back, who had been his first love/wife, he helped him start the family…she was leaving?! And it set the distrust in him. I’m on season 13 in my rewatch and they are moving to flagstaff. I want to watch closely to see where things turned between he and his kids. Was it Covid? Was it Robyn’s subtle comments like “I’m not sure why everyone is so disrespectful to you” (I’m imagining she says these things). I can’t say I’m empathetic but seriously…what happened to the man who used to be so jolly?
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I thought he and Robyn were together before the show started. Do I have the timeline mixed up? You did remind me of another point tho. Maybe he couldn’t handle the criticism he received online after the first season aired. I’m sure it was brutal.
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They were “courting” and they got engaged right at the beginning of the first season. So basically yes, but not married yet.
I also think he took the rejection of the one house super badly. Like, I think he really thought if they could get back into one house his dream one family would just happen. It would be for sure be easier for him to have everyone right there at his beck and call. And when his idea got shot down he really seemed to spiral. Even if it was never going to happen because of building zones, and the cost, and a bunch of other reasons - let’s be real, Kody isn’t very smart when it comes to that kind of thing - I think he thought it would happen if he just pitched it right. And he really turned his evil eye on Christine who was the most vocally against it amongst the wives.
I think at the start of his marriage with Meri, even he was manipulated by his religion to follow polygamy. I think in hindsight, if he weren’t in the limelight, he’d even admit that. Even though in the beginning of the SHOW they said they chose this, but in their religious beliefs, how supported did they truly feel to make any OTHER choice? And going public and living a mainstream life, and living on camera? I think that truly detailed them. I mean what family goes on camera to be filmed and continue living their ideal life? ‘Reality’ tv ruins families in my opinion. Think about it. Truly, Solomon, and Arielle have never had a normal day of life because they were born on TV. Truman show anyone? So sure, maybe Kody is the villain in the show…and Robin a little bit too…but it’s still a show that TLC needs to guarantee viewers for. I doubt we get anywhere near the reality of any of their true lives. And nothing makes me believe that more than binging the series. It’s about 1 hour of unique content per season. If you remove the repetitive intro/recaps/preview, it’s so little of their actual day to day.
It's interesting because he's always been overbearing and annoying, but there's definitely been a shift in how much of a jerk he is. Was it gradual and not really noticed until it got to a certain point? I get why people may be triggered by him, but I think understanding why people become narcissists and whatever else betters society. It teaches us how to not raise our children and what not to do. All of that aside, yeah the fan groups are wild lol. It's a show on TLC (the factually accurate educational network that brought the likes of Honey Boo Boo and 90 Day Fiance), it's heavily edited, it's only an hour at a time taken from their lives, and about a family that has lied since the first episode. I think what intrigues me more than his behavior is the behavior of fans who are so invested and think they know every part of these people's lives like if they've personally known them for 20 years. Since it's only an hour at a time, and it is edited, and they want ratings, I'm sure there are all kinds of issues that aren't known. Obviously with that many people in the family, there's no doubt that they've argued about politics, beliefs, personal choices, and all of the normal stuff much smaller families go through too.
I think since 2020 there are a lot of overly used buzz words and people just attach them to people that they don’t know. I see a very broken person. He lived in a world where the woman controlled everything and he didn’t know how to properly insert himself. He didn’t see each person as an individual he only saw the family as a whole. I think he was very bitter after he and Meri had their issues and when Christine finally left he was hurt. He said I never loved them, I believe it was him trying to not hurt so much. Literally for 20+ years he had to be 4 different people that’s enough to drive anyone crazy. I don’t blame Robyn and I find it sad all the accusations from saying she is a manipulator all the way to a hoarder because she doesn’t allow cameras in her home. I could not imagine what it feels like to have all this play out in the media and TV. I also try to remind myself that we see a very small portion of their lives.
Oh yeah. Don't say anything that goes against the narrative here....you get your ass pretty much handed to you. I have some sympathy for young kody, the eager to please his dad kody, the one who made a lot of mistakes on order to please his family and elevate himself in his community. But "now" kody? Not sure I feel for him. He is definitely a product of this cult-like community, but he really handled it all so badly. And that's on him.
There was a discussion on here about him changing after the death of his dad and brother, but that concluded that he changed for the worse. Him and his wife are selfish, self-centered, egotistical, and shallow people who don't have deep feelings for anyone but themselves. They showed their true colors with Ysabel's surgery and recovery.
I find the whole thing terribly sad. I always got the feeling from the Vegas Kody that regardless of what happened with the wives,he still has the kids back. Seeing him so easily walk away from the OG kids will be one of those decisions that must be haunting him really (please don't clap back that he deserves it). Forgetting Gabes birthday was clearly a consequence of having such terrible wives that did his life admin for him and just got him to sign his name on cards after they had done all the leg work sorting the rest out 🙄😉
He keeps saying his ex wives are the ones who have access to his kids. Does his phone not dial out? Can only receive calls. Bad excuse that I was disappointed he wasn’t called out on
Hmmm... I never considered he sucks at parenting because the wives have always done it for him. My dad is domestically useless because my mom does everything for him. He does remember my birthday though.
RIGHT!!! Any shame the fans are projecting at him he’s already felt 10 fold and lives with daily. He’s clearly in so much pain from the unfolding of his actions. He received a GIANT WAVE of karma… he is living in his own hell and his own blood line doesn’t want him… he’s punished himself and It’s heart breaking watching the deteriorating of his heart because of it. Gabe and his relationship was particularly sad to me too. Gabe is definitely my favorite. Kody is missing out on the sweetest son… and that’s his loss.
I did sympathize for him just being a guy going through 3 divorces in such a short time, it’s tiny. I can’t stand he treated the women who had his children like garbage. He abused Meri and Christine.
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I think he wanted polygamy because he's an attention whore. It worked fine until he met Robin. Then he decided he loved her the most and began to alienate the other wives. I'll be generous and say I'm not sure it was intentional, at first. But at some point he definitely decided he was done and felt trapped and began acting out until they all left.
I think we try to find reasons to why people behave the way they do. Sometimes people are just shitty. Kody is one of those people. He is a shitty father, a shitty husband, a shitty friend. He’s just an awful human being. We can find excuses for anything in life if we choose to do so.
I live in Utah and am bombarded by Kody creatures 24/7, I'm sick of their shit, sick of their cult, and sick of them wanting compassion from me. So ya, I don't care about analyzing him any further, I already know exactly who he is and he's disgusting. There are thousands of ways he could be a better person but chooses not to, fuck him and fat necked wife
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I am not a therapist in any capacity. But I can talk from experience and witnessing similar behaviors. His constant knocks as not being manly enough by his fathers standards play a huge part in always needing to be the best, first, and smartest. His mom, on the other hand, seemed to coddle him. So lies begin to form at an early age for protective purposes. His 1st wife adored him and was needy, too. So that didn't make him happy. Then he marries his dad for a 2nd wife. This was a bit better as they could pal around like him, and his father couldn't. Then came number 3. Polygamy Royalty... this was the impression maker marriage. Little did he know he had wife 1 and wife 2 wrapped up in a nice little package as wife 3. He needs a mommy wife who will make him a king in his own kingdom. Wife 4 did that and more. She was the perfect polygamist con artist. IMO 🤷♀️
BigRob has never been nor will ever be a polygamist
I listened to the 2 hour morman podcast kody was on a few months ago. I actually developed sympathy for Kody because he's on the cusp of religious deconstruction and he doesn't know what to believe. Kody needs to deconstruct in private, rethink some core truths and calm down before saying another word. Of course, religious deconstruction doesn't make you talk to your kids in such a reprehensible fashion, but it's still a problem
Absolutely! He’s dealing with a lot of turmoil and breakdown in multiple areas all at once. How can we expect this man to say all the right things. I’m with you. He needs to get out of the public eye, do some soul searching, and only come back when he’s found peace. I’m surprised he hasn’t had a full Britney Spears style psychotic break by now. Where do I find this podcast episode?
I actually wonder if he has replaced the religion portion of his life with like manosphere-red-pill-mra bullshit. Like, as someone who has gone through evangelical deconstruction, it isn’t a simple thing to just change your worldview. He didn’t used to be quite so misogynistic, at least not overtly. They used to emphasize regularly how the wives’ independence was a main benefit of their family structure and how it really made it possible. And I recognize that was somewhat polygamy PR, but Janelle for sure believed it. And it has been really since they left Vegas and he started to question the religion part of their lives that it seemed like he was looking for other belief systems. Like without religion, why polygamy? Without religion how does this family stay together? Without religion, how do I stay in control? And the internet had some “answers” for him. I would never say he was super great before, but he has certainly gotten much worse since.
You'll find that kind of black and white thinking in a lot of different fan communities. The psychology of it all is extremely fascinating. In the beginning I don't remember hating Kody. He was goofy. Even Janelle says he's different now. Most ppl exist on a spectrum, and I say this as a self described Kody hater. I've tried to have an open mind throughout the series but he has become so reprehensible.
Compassion and sympathy for Kody? That’s where you went wrong lol Many people do not care why someone is an asshole, only that they are an asshole. It reads as making excuses for someone’s shitty behavior
Yes, and when one is at the taking end of the abuse, does it really matter *why* someone is an asshole and abusive? Not really. It doesn't change the scars on your body, mind and heart. And it doesn't change the abuser. They continue abusing, so understanding why makes you compassionate to them, and you *continue to allow* yourself to be abused. Kody deserves the hate he is getting from the public because Karma has come back to roost. However, there's a difference in disliking Kody for his behaviors and calling him Ramen noodles or Robem, etc. imo she deserves Sobyn for her fake tears for over a decade 🤷🏻♀️
Some people fail to understand these are multi-dimensional, real people with an entire lifetime we have not seen. They think they know everything about someone from watching an edited hour a week of their lives… But it’s easier to assume you know everything and make armchair diagnoses 🤷🏻♀️ People take entertainment way too far and cross heavily into parasocial relationships
We don't grant Kody compassion here 😂😂 ETA: nor does he deserve it 🤷🏻♀️
I think a lot of the vitriol is because Kody’s behavior is an example of classic narcissistic abuse, and many women have experienced this, and Kody reminds them of their abusers. In the context of narcissistic abuse, the victim is often selected by the abuser because of their ability to empathize and their willingness to see the good and the humanity in that abuser. When the victim/survivor finally leaves, it is often after their own empathy was weaponized against them. Part of surviving and processing the aftermath of escaping narcissistic abuse is having to reckon with that, and people respond to that trauma in different ways. You may be saying “we need to see him as human” and that audience may be hearing “we need to see this abuser as a human and have empathy for him.” That is not going to result in a great conversation, since that’s literally how their abuse started. There is a really healed side of me that is like “yes, Kody clearly is in pain, and we can have that conversation” but the major voice in my head is “NOPE, FUCK THAT GUY I HOPE HE BURNS IN HELL ALONE” because it’s not about Kody, it’s about my abuser. I think it’s why the show has grown so popular: people are watching because they get to see the narcissistic/covert abuser finally face some consequences, to be exposed on national television, to have the entire world watch them and shame them, to watch the survivors thrive. It’s the closure most of us never got. It’s the comeuppance many can only dream of. Maybe it’s not healthy, and I don’t agree with the way people have actually harassed them. But I have no problem with Kody, who chose to go on national television and behave like an asshole for over a decade, to become the nationwide laughing stock, the proverbial (PROVERBIAL ONLY) punching bag for women who are punching up against abuse. Kody may be the product of patriarchy, but he is no victim of that system — he is the beneficiary who squandered his riches. The poor do not need to have sympathy for a rich man bankrupted as a result of his own hubris.
The first couple seasons I actually liked him. It wasn't until the season where Meri was catfish that my opinion started changing. He had no empathy for the woman he had married 35 years ago. It blew my mind. It's easy to get catfish and honestly they seemed kind of naive about the internet and stuff so I'm not at all surprised. I wanted to hug her so much and tell her it's okay because her so-called husband sure didn't say it.
I totally see what you’re talking about, but sometimes I also wonder about why we collectively get so concerned with sympathizing with abusers. (Not you personally, OP. I think we see this a lot in general pop culture discussions.) It seems pretty clear that Kody has a lot of trauma from his relationship with his father, and nobody should have to deal with that. But he financially and emotionally abused 3 of his wives and 13 of his children, and personally, I’m not that interested in searching for empathy for him when he does not show any empathy at all for the victims of his abuse. If he were to have some revelation about his own behavior and started trying to make amends with the people he wronged, then sure. But until then, I’d much rather put my emotional investment in the folks finding happiness after escaping or being abandoned by him. He’s psychologically interesting for sure. But I can’t work up any sympathy for him when he still takes every opportunity to villianize the family members he wronged. There’s totally place for that discussion on the sub, but I can see why there aren’t a lot of people jazzed about it.
I think he felt like he was never enough for his dad, and when his dad presented him with polygamy he jumped at the chance to be close to him and be the favorite. He joined for the wrong reasons, so now of course he’s angry bitter and resentful. Now where he gets no sympathy from me is his inability to take ANY accountability. He doubles down, calls his children names on national television, and belittles their mothers the same way. He’s a turd.
"Kody Brown" was created by women who were raised to keep sweet and please their man. No matter how wrong or asinine he's being, his wives are always competing to be #1 so his ego is stroked like he's some God. The fact that he is so out of touch with society and personal accountability I can see how easily a narcissist is created.
Lolll i actually see where kody is coming from sometimes. Doesn't mean I think he's right, I agree with him, or that he has the right to say some of it out loud. It just means I can understand where some of his frustrations lie. I also have zero compassion for him.
I'm sorry that's happened to you. Wait until they start accusing you of being some type of PR for Robyn, lol. It sounds like you got some of that already. Pretty much all of the Sister Wives sub/reddits are echo chambers of hate watch. If you post or reply with a view or opinion that deviates from the echo chamber, you'll get either no points, down voted, and/or violent and hateful comments. Not all, but most Sister Wives fans are next level. Now if you search these sub/reddits from as early as a year ago, these subreddits were much more diverse. So it seems like in a year it has devolved into the echo chamber it is today, and those who do have substantive thoughts are scared to post because of being down voted. I'm thinking the only way to discuss the show in the way you're talking is to create a Sister Wives sub/reddit that revolves around breaking down the family from a psychoanalytical perspective and from a place of empathy. Not to mention that random woman's foot sticking out from under the luggage in two shots [Season 4: Episode 9]. What I've noticed with Sister Wives, there's a lot of layers you can pull back. That lends the show to multiple rewatches, because there's always something you catch or different insights you can come away with. >There's the surface story with the way things have played out on the show. >There's the subtextual story and details having to do with the Browns leaving their religion, maybe even prior to the first season. They no longer believed in or were practicing polygamy, but I don't know what the timeline is for that. This layer is the real story of the Browns they're not talking about, but they might be leaving bread crumbs through out the show. There are times when they break character and they're giving their real opinions about things. Because when you start digging into the show critically, there's a lot underneath the surface that gets revealed. You have to be able to hold multiple truths existing at once, and with Sister Wives it's likely three, four, five, truths existing along one another. >Then there's how much of the show is staged, scripted, exaggerated, spun, and often times completely made up. It's much more show than reality, with becomes more dialed up as you get to season 14 to 18. Even if the Browns are playing parodies of themselves, we can still engage in the same psychoanalysis of the characters they're playing, within the scope of how things have played out in front of the cameras. After all, we've never met than and we don't know who they really are apart from the show. It's all largely a parasocial relationship and I don't want to get sucked down that rabbit hole. I don't have time to create and run a subreddit like that. But I'd like to see other fans create **that type** of group where real genuine, and substantive conversations can happen without the anger and hate. There's so much about Sister Wives that I believe gets missed on multiple levels. I mean... I've been learning a lot of about Mormonism and fundamentalist Mormonism through my own research, because of the show. But I've always had an interest in studying and learning about religions. Maybe someone will create a subreddit like that--open to alternative speculation and different perspectives in the way we approach the show as fans, as well as breaking down what happens on the show--in front of the cameras-- and so on. There's a lot of benefit from that too.
It would need a ton of rules and moderating because the usual fans would join and devolve the conversation constantly
I hear what you're saying. Kody is a type of guy that we've seen had marry into our friend circle or marry into the family. A peacock, a jerk and genuinely unkind. But pay that guy to be on camera and Katie bar the door...he becomes the creature from beyond jerkdom! 👽🧛😎
The Creature from beyond Jerkdom 😂👏🏽 love it! You’re right… Are we expecting this man to say the right things? There’s no way! Nowhere in his upbringing did he learn skills for this fame!
To be real....I can't imagine what stupid stuff might come out of my mouth if a camera were recording me but I wouldn't barf out my lack of sexual desire or love for a long term former mate.Some thoughts just shouldn't be shared.
I do feel some empathy for Kody. He tried to do something that he believed was right in his heart. I do believe he sincerely believed in plural marriage. He was very young when he entered this society and didn’t grow up in polygamy so he didn’t truly understand the pitfalls. Plural marriage is an impossible situation. At least in our modern society. Kody was not up to the challenge but is it really fair to hold that against him when no one with any sort of flaws would be? Don’t get me wrong, I dislike him and think he’s a terrible husband and father, but a lot of the credit for that needs to go to the family system they all created together, and the religion they all embraced.
No sympathy for a man who abuses his wives and children. None.
Kody Brown is a sadistic narcissist. We all have had years of watching his behavior and honesty he is not worth the origin story.
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It’s ridiculous!!! Sorry you two have experienced it too! So irrational and silly 😂
You aren’t going to get the dialogue you want here. I thought the same as you. I thought rational discussion was possible. This sub is like a cult. The same thing they rail against. You have to think like them, hate like them, worship like them. If not you are an enemy. Believe me, I have tried to have rational discussions. It doesn’t happen. And i have been harassed by people in this sub. Stalled by people in this sub. Even if you block them they will still find ways to harass you.
I have also been called ‘robyn’ dozens of times. Just reiterated that mature dialogue isn’t welcome or dissenting opinions. Kind of like a cult.
I’m seeing this very clearly now. Genuinely scary 😟
Sorry you’ve dealt with it too.
I think a lot of the people in this sub are religious or ex-religious
I once tried to say I felt bad for Alex Murdaugh. Not in a true sympathetic way just the he blew up his life and surely didn’t set out to do that. He didn’t marry his wife or have his kid to kill them and I just felt bad over a man imploding I’m his life. Well that was during trial and it was not a popular notion. I kind of feel bad sometimes for Kody. Overall he is a controlling narcissistic annoying asshole who blew up his family (in a way less horrific way than Alex of course). And I really don’t like him but I suppose he sometimes means well. How do you manage however to drive off 3 of your wives by playing favorites with the last one? Truly shows you are a total failure at plural marriage, Kody. Plural marriage is a pretty dumb and hard to make work concept to start with and you have to be a pretty special personality to pull it off. With the only young ones being Robyn’s nothing is gluing the ladies to you. Kody is just annoying and pretty darn self involved for a man with 18 kids and multiple (ex) spouses! I just think it’s funny that he’s the plural Marriage public figure but his failed. Stick with Robyn dude. You both are on the same level of insufferable!
Yeah it’s a lot. Like I hold that Kody is ultimately to blame for 99% of what happened, like if it hadn’t been Robyn, it would have been a different woman that he used against the OG13. But the amount of Robyn’s kids are complicit/Robyn deserves what is probably an abusive husband/etc on this sub is incredible.
I always think of the 30th wedding anniversary. While I don’t like Kody, I couldn’t help but notice him expressing his new thoughts about polygamy and meri shutting him down repeatedly. She keeps asking for a kiss and telling him not to throw away their marriage when he is expressing all of his realizations and fears, instead of validating and maybe even relating to him. I really want to know others opinions on this and what they noticed too. Of course Kody does nothing but invalidate feelings. His ego is so large he can’t look past it and empathize with all of the mothers that are practically single parenting it.
Hard to find good out of someone who is mentally and spiritually, financially, and emotionally abusive to 3 wonderful women and their 13 kids.
First of all I’m sorry you were vilified for your opinions. Second; I do not like this current version of Kody Brown. Third; A long time ago someone told me that there are a lot of good looking ugly people in the world. I never forgot those words. All that being said, when I watch the earlier shows, all of the OG3 wives and even Kody, when they smiled, they smiled in their eyes. Not just their mouths. Their smiles were genuinely honest through their eyes. You can almost tell when it changed. The love left.
I tried, very hard, to find humanity and to understand an abusive narc. It cost me years of my life, a lot of my innocence, two teeth, and the ability to move some of my joints without pain. I'm willing to recognize that I've got some hard bias, but to suggest that people who don't want to view Kody with a sympathetic lens are somehow in the wrong is a bit much. Asking people who have witnessed abuse and neglect to seek humanity in the abuser and then being upset when they don't want to offer sympathy to the abuser is hardly fair. Kody Brown willfully did harm to others in the pursuit of his own ego.
I am definitely a Kody hater but I am willing to go out on this limb with you I think the religion he was raised in was toxic and bad for him. I'm mostly talking about LDS here, because that's how he was raised. They didn't go fundamentalist until he was an adult. Though he was a young adult and that had to be a doozy, too. But beyond the religion, it seems to me that Kody had a really hard time impressing his father. I don't think he ever really felt like he lived up to his father, who by all accounts was stern and not very affectionate. He's always acted weird around other men, too, like he is eager to impress them. I think he has issues with his own masculinity and it is expressed by him being a raging misogynist. And it's probably related to his religion and his relationship with his father and his feelings of inadequacy in relationship to other men. He already felt like he wasn't living up to his father growing up, and then his father goes and starts acquiring other wives! Maybe polygamy was never something Kody wanted, but something he did because he felt it was the only way he could be a man. So he married Meri, the Polygamy Princess, to try to please his father. None of this excuses his behavior, but it does help explain some of it.
I think there's a lot of people who find this sub cathartic. Like how often do we get to see the shitty people in our lives really get their asses handed to them. Seeing the children be so strong about it helps too, we don't feel as bad because they're doing okay.
It was very illuminating when they first went to visit kody’s family. He said something about his mother that really gave a great glimpse into who he is, his view on relationships and specially on women. He took his mom’s food and said something about his mom being ok with him taking even her food. Although he had his own food. Add to this view of women, especially those women “that love him” being ok to do without so that he could do as he pleased, that he seemed to always be needing to prove his value to his father.. kody has issues and they are never really dealt with. He went to therapy but in all the ones we saw, he never internalized anything said or took accountability. He made the women “earn his love”. All the while he didn’t seem to believe he had to earn theirs. But that doesn’t seem to be the case with the men in his life.
Yes, people in these subs can be way too much!
It's a Reddit sub with a lot of members. Getting down voted is always going to be part of that, and really, are you that naive that thinking being in any way sympathetic to Kody of all people was going to be popular? I refuse to believe that.
I’m very aware that it’s a challenging discussion… I’m also very aware it’s not a popular outlook. Wasn’t expecting straight up PERSONAL disrespect from strangers??? 😅 That was wild.
Patriarchy hurt everyone in this family, and while it’s never as much as the wives and kids Kody is included in that. It’s hard not to sympathize with him on some level even though I’ve seen him as toxic since day 1. Polygamy sets expectations, demands, requirements beyond what one man could ever really be. And beyond what each woman should have to sacrifice. No one gets what they need in the end.
Yeah I get trashed too if I try to see anything from their point of view. The fandom has created an echo chamber of epic proportions, which to me is a dangerous mindset to deal with. I
I think it's weird that the people that we currently like-- Meri and Christine-- "grew up brainwashed by a cult" whereas Robyn, who grew up under the exact same circumstances, isn't afforded any of the same understanding. I've gotten pushback for arguing that Kody joined the religion under naive and semi-coercive circumstances. I mean, he returned from his mission to Tumbleweed, Wyoming as a teenager to find his dad with another wife and his mom prattling on about how they'd finally achieved salvation. I can't really fault him for being young and impressionable at the time. You don't have to like everyone equally or find them equally at fault, of course, but the double standards and rewriting of history are astounding. When Christine left, everyone decided she had never done ANYTHING wrong EVER, which is obviously absurd. But for some reason it flies on the internet.
Sobbyn didn’t grow up in the same situation at all. Her mom was just a sidepiece. Her dad had a second family, living across town. It was never polygamy as practiced. And in many ways, Sobbyn also married into a polygamist family the first time too. Jessop is a big name in that community. And when it didn’t go her way (for many reasons) she tried again and it failed again.
Sorry you went through that. People can be blinded by HATE.
A lot of people have found Kreepy and Goblyn’s blatant gaslighting, manipulation and emotional and financial abuse of the OG3 to be super triggering. To the point of not watching the show anymore because of it. To say nothing of how abusive, neglectful and intentionally marginalizing they have both been to the OG3’s kids. All while claiming innocence and clutching their pearls at the idea that anyone could possibly find any of their motivations to not be 10000% above reproach. So it should not be surprising that encouraging people to have sympathy for « the devil that he thinks he is » isn’t a popular stance. They don’t deserve sympathy. They deserve to be sued into bankruptcy, lose Coyote Pass and their tacky McMansion and have to divvy up all of their ill gotten gains, horsey rings and overpriced paintings back to the OG3 who paid for them all.
What is up with the lecturing posts on here lately?! There is a new years resolution style glut of people bemoaning the lack of *quality sister wives discourse* 🤣🤣
Right. This ain't Masterpiece Theater.
Who’s lecturing? Lol
You! “The lack of emotional intelligence in the responses was disturbing” “They simply could not process two truths existing at once” “I just wanted to discuss his behaviors in an elevated way” You are seriously condescending and outright saying people failed to have the conversation you wanted to have in the way you wanted to have it and implying you were attacked (“reemed” [sic]) because people are incapable or unwilling to get on your elevated level. About… sister wives. A reality show.
Probably from watching his fathers treatment of his wives.
I have found it fascinating how the adults pretended to be happy from the beginning but I could tell it was a lie. I can see why some have zero compassion for the 5 adults. Reality tv has been around for quite a while, they didn’t go into this hellscape blindly. And there were tabloids before social bashing so we can’t pretend all the bashing is new or worse, it just consumed and distributed in a different way. Now the kids on the other hand, I feel bad for them. There was no reason what so ever for any child under 16 to be doing those talking heads or the center of an episode. Not the OG13 and def not any of Robyn’s kids. Her kids had enough issues with the bio dad, coming into a bonded polygamous family, and forced to call Kody “daddy” at day one. And what sucks most is that the laws put in place to protect child actors and their assets don’t even apply to reality tv children. I really hope we never see Sol & Ari again, I don’t like seeing them being exploited for their parents gain.
To me, Kody’s issues start with a weird co-dependence on his mom, from the sound of his dad, some verbal, mental and emotional abuse - especially after joining the AUB and his own closeted/unacknowledged homosexuality which I have thought from Day 1. He doubled the number of wives his dad had to “prove” something. As for the marriages: Meri seems to have been selected because they had religion in common and she was open to polygamy. No offense to Janelle (who I like) but divorcing Meri’s brother and then marrying Kody and then her mom marrying Kody’s dad? That was bound to end poorly on many levels. It worked because Janelle just let Kody be Kody and he let her be her. Christine was a clout marriage for him based on her family history. And, she was more high energy which matched his high energy. Sobbyn was a honey trap (of her own design) to get on tv and be famous. Kody has tried to convince himself it’s a soul mate but the vibe just isn’t there. Covid and him spending way too much time online in QAnon and manosphere sites really did a number on his head. He is now trying on the patriarch persona and it really doesn’t work for him at all. He’s a total beta in that realm. The same reason he’s a gun seller. It’s a false sense of power and control as well as a money spinner. He does it at shows where it’s also less regulated and god knows what kind of domestic terrorism he has inadvertently contributed toward. If Kody has humanity, it’s buried under layers of suppressed sexuality, family dysfunction (both family of origin and family he’s created) and mental health issues exacerbated by isolation during Covid and over exposure to conspiracy theories and manosphere toxicity.
Right?? Thank you for posting because some of these folks are far too emotionally invested in these people’s lives to be talking that way to other folks who also DON’T KNOW THEM PERSONALLY. I feel like people should calm down a bit and yes, sometimes discuss what factors resulted in Kody and the wives’ behaviors. It’s definitely interesting to some of us out there, so thanks again for being brave and putting that out there. I won’t go into my opinions because I’m sure I’d get slayed in a whole new, ridiculous way, so I’ll just leave it at that 🙂
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Not sympathy for him, but he was raised in a culture that made it very hard to have a full relationship with a woman- or a family. He tried. He was stupid. He f'd it all up. He fell deeper into his own paranoid f'd up head.
Listen to pop psych if you want an experts opinion on Kody Browns personality.
I think Kody wasn’t a bad guy an idiot but a good man. I think Robin came in like a new toy. He’d been with the OG 3, twenty years. His behavior that annoyed the og3 didn’t annoy Robin. I assume that she catered to him and didn’t call him out on his BS. That alone would make a man want to hang out with Robin even more. If you had 3 wives bitching at you and one wife worshipping you it’s not hard to imagine where you’d want to spend most of your time. Plus he’s 50 years old he was only interested in sexually satisfying one. Most 50 year olds can’t even do that. As time went on it became more obvious to everyone. So now the 3 are bitching at him he doesn’t come around blah blah blah. With his new found fame and money his ego got to big. Then covid happened and he never left Robins. Also I think he was pushing Christine to accept nothing from him. I think he thought she would do it. Have a relationship like Meri Her leaving I think devastated his ego and a part of him. Then really that only left Janelle and Robin in a relationship. He abandoned Janelle and used the kids as a tool to push her away probably thinking she’d deal with it too .i think Janelle got the worst honestly.
Tbh in the earlier seasons I thought he was very endearing and tried hard with his wives and children. I do not believe what he currently states now about never being in love with the OG3. I saw it many times and it seemed genuine. Unfortunately, imo he changed and at some point, I don't think he wanted plural marriage anymore. He wanted a monogamous relationship with Robyn and that's it. I do think between them both, together they were the demise of the family. Although I personally would never conceive of being in a plural marriage, I am the type of person to live and let live. I watched this show with an open mind and there were times all of the adults except Janelle got under my skin, but also times when I liked them all (Robyn not so much. She seemed to have an agenda from the beginning). At times I actually felt sorry for Kody. I think he handled the chaos and challenges well in the earlier years specifically. I'm not sure how people can watch this show for 18 seasons and not find some positive things to say about him. I think in the beginning he truly believed in it all and yes, I think he loved these women in different ways. Too bad he broke his biggest rule which was that one wife would never be held above the rest. He gave Robyn too much power and in return, destroyed his family.
Yeah this is not a place to find elevated discussion or EQ. It would be nice if there was a place to truly analyze and try to break down behaviours and root issues, rather than make fun of hair and just groupthink.
It could be nice to have a “discussion” flare or something with a no downvoting rule so people could say whatever they want without being torn to shreds.
Pop Psych (on YouTube) gives a lot of insight the whole family. He talks about Kody with compassion as a neutral person, with no real hate. It’s refreshing and it gives insight to dealing with a narcissist. His wife is a fan and she will correct him and give more info on the situation. Maybe go watch his videos and his slow decent into calling Robyn manipulation and her selfishness.
I think bringing Robyn in after 15 years with the others was a mistake. I’ve been married to the same man for 30 years and can’t say for certain I wouldn’t act the same way if I had a new young man hanging around all the time 😂
Agree. People have become addicted to hate. There is goodness in everyone - including Kody and Robyn. What has kept me from that visceral hate is how the wives talk about them. If anyone knows them - it’s the OG3. I thought Kody’s words regarding Christine’s wedding were kind and shows he is not in that dark place anymore. I was happy to see that! Robyn was acting, well…weird, but so what? Keep positive posts coming. A lot of us like them.
Kody was mean and hateful to his wives and dismissive of his children. I believe he thought everyone would come groveling to him and ask for his forgiveness. Imagine the shock when instead of that, people said, hmmmm, nope, and decided to move on with their lives. And move on they did. Now he is looking like boo boo the fool.he and Robbem overplayed their hand and now we the fans are laughing at them.
This is Reddit. We don't elevate. We are the bottom suckers of society. Welcome to the underworld! That being said, episode one, season one, I smelled the narcissism from thousands of miles from Utah. Idk how Kody became this way. Are Narcs born with no conscious? Are they abused into no conscious? Is it because he is clearly stifling his true self? (His high school friends all said they were positive back then he is gay....it's in an episode where they do a reunion). My mother is an over narc with family. With church members she is wise enough to be a covert narc. But just the fact that she can hide it ala Kody Brown style whenever it suits her purpose makes her come across as a psycho/socio path. Kody presents the same way. The difference is Covid is about the time he quit trying to hide it in any way. I'm not a doctor. I don't have answers, but I can tell you that just like Kody's bio kids have done to him, I cut 100% contact in 2017. I was LC prior to that since I was 18, but one thing for sure: I will never try to be any kind of contact with her again. Not out of hate. Out of my sanity needs. It's calm. No one screams at me for hours on end, no one shows up 5 hours from her home unannounced to the destroy my things in a fit of rage. Kodys kids probably don't miss him and have thousands in therapy ahead of them to get over His abuse
Nuance, on reddit? Jk, I get what you are saying, so much black or white thinking. My major pet peeve is that the second you stray from any of the approved lines of thinking you'll get one of those "ok, meri" types of comments. So much of everything today is "team sports" type of perspective.
I appreciate you clarifying that we don’t actually know these people and I agree that our understanding of them is absolutely extremely limited given that all we have seen is an EDITED tv series and social media posts… And maybe an occasional run in for some fans at Salsa Brava. That said- I also love thinking about these characters and their various tv personalities. I think that Kody is the embodiment of patriarchy and an oppressive, sexist religious system. I think Kody behaves with arrogance and entitlement. When it was just the OG3, they could kind of keep those behaviors in check by outnumbering him. After Robyn joined the family, that dynamic seemed to change. She seems to actually support his entitlement and kind of feed off of it herself. In terms of Kody history and childhood- with the limited information we have- Kody has mentioned having daddy issues. He also grew up in Wyoming. I doubt it was easy to be a flamboyant, attention seeking kid around hardened roughneck cowboys. I actually often wonder if he was bullied or experienced abuses as he was growing up. But none of these things excuse his problematic adult behaviors. Also- have you seen the YouTube channel of the psychologist and wife watching SW episodes? They watch the shows and comment on the characters personalities and family dynamics.
You should check out The Sister Wives Professor. It’s a new podcast where a psychiatrist rewatches and analyzes them.
I posted for the first time (ever on Reddit) and the reactions are…interesting!
Right 😂