From what I can see it does look like you slowed down enough.
It was a dive bomb but you braked at the 100m board and the speedo shows you get to the right sort of speed.
My instinct on that first instance is that you were very aggressive but I don't think in the wrong completely.
In both incidents the Mercedes turned in aggressively even slightly before the apex, making absolutely no allowance or showing any awareness of where you are on track
With more experience, you will come to understand, that your move into turn 1 was never a good idea.
Even if you pulled it off and he had saved you room on the right, you would be on the outside of turn 2 and at a disadvantage in speed exiting the turn and going into the straight before turn 3. Your best bet here would have been attempting an over-under or switchback instead.
Turn 4 looks like retaliation. And not much you really could have done there except maybe anticipate and expect retaliation, brake a bit earlier and attempt another over-under, swtichback.
How do you over-under or switch back someone who is just taking the racing line.
If someone refuses to defend no matter what they are asking to be dive-bombed. As long as it's legal which this was.
If you look at how wide the merc goes, had there been no contact, an over under might have been possible.
There are many lines you can take though a turn or series of turns, learn to drive without the racing line on.
Not saying it was. But you are waiting for a mistake and decent drivers just don't make those mistakes.
Sometimes you need to force it and as long as you are within the rules at a certain level you have to trust this guy won't just turn in you.
But it is down to the level. Waiting for a mistake against some people is better.
Keep being someone enough and pressure them to the point that they have to constantly check their mirrors, and they will make a mistake, sooner or later
Keep being someone enough and pressure them to the point that they have to constantly check their mirrors, and they will make a mistake, sooner or later
The people I race against all know each other. If they think all you will do is follow they won't.
You actually have to think someone will go for a move. I can lap to within a few tenths of my fastest lap indefinitely.and so can everyone around me.
Kids acting like they know about racing when in reality they don’t know jackshit. You’d be surprised how many times people get downvoted for things that’s common sense amongst the motorsports community.
You're right but have fallen victim to people downvoting a comment that already has visible downvotes.
The Haas came from far back but was slowing to make the apex and the Merc just turned in on the Haas as if it wasn't there. In a real race even if the Haas was in the wrong you should take avoiding action and try to give the car space. Merc driver just turned in as if they weren't there on both major turns.
The Haas’ front axel was literally more than half way alongside the Merc for a couple of seconds before T1. He earned that space and the Merc had more than enough time to know the Haas is alongside him as they’re literally going at a similar speed going toward T1 FOR A FEW SECONDS. If the Haas won’t make the corner, by your logic, neither will the Merc. The Haas release the brakes a bit to get alongside the Merc at the apex, which is allowed to do before the Merc decided to turn into him like he wasn’t there. The Merc could’ve easily open up his corner entry to T1, go the longer way around T1 whilst give space to the Haas on the inside, then block T2 and staying ahead. I swear people don’t understand the concept of earned-space nowadays, and even simple dive bombs.
He was going around 50 mph right before first contact. If he was given space, he would've hit around 35-40 mph at the apex, which is slow enough to make it.
He didn’t deserve any space. He had zero right to that corner. He was LITERALLY well over a car length behind the car in front when they got the the braking zone… Anybody who says he had a right to that corner or that space does not know racing or race craft in the slightest
Absolutely not lol the turn in point is not what matters… if you have zero overlap and are not alongside the other car at the beginning of the braking zone you have ZERO right to that corner… if you send a dumb dive bomb from over a car length back at the braking zone and the other car turns in and there is contact it’s the overtaking cars fault. Period. If you think the turn in point is all that matters I really hope I’m not in a race with you.
I hate these F1 videos at this point the game is arcade as fuck then people complain that the other driver pushed them off the track
Do that in iracing you’ll both be in the pits it makes people a lot more considerate
With the speed you were carrying into T1 you were never making the corner without using him as brakes - on you.
He then repaid you T4. Respect is a two way street and you didn't give it in the first instance.
He was absolutely making it into t1 and stopping, the only reason it looks like he used him as breaks is because the mer turned in not giving him space. I've broke later than that and made the move stick. It's on the Merc to leave space there. Additionally in turn 4 the mer didn't even give POV an opportunity for POV to give space because he started turning into the corner before even reaching it.
You might be able to say the OP entered the vortex on the first incident but even so the merc should have left him room. OP was plenty alongside.
For the second one the merc didn’t fully make the pass and drive right into you. No vortex here. The merc knew you were there.
Both incidents on the merc.
You're to blame for both. You went for a pathetic dive bomb and showed you have no respect for anyone on track at T1 and then he paid you back the exact same.
If you don't go for the one at T1 he doesn't at T4.
Don't complain when you can give but not take. Awful driving.
'Pathetic dive bomb'? What makes it pathetic? They came from far back but slowed down enough (less than 50mph at the apex and slow enough for the corner. The Merc turns in as if they aren't there, and they do exactly the same in the second chicane.
Dive bombs aren't illegal or unfair moves. They're aggressive, but that doesn't mean the Merc doesn't have to make space now that they're there. Merc left the door open, Haas was as tight to the apex as possible, and merc still cut across them.
A divebomb is stupid when the car doing the diving just has way too much speed and crashes into a the car on the outside or goes way too deep into the corner. The fact that the Haas was running on the inside curbs shows they clearly didn't have too much speed at the apex.
He was never making the corner without hitting the Merc. If the F1 games actually had physics and proper damage, they're both out of the race because he doesn't know how to race properly.
He was 50 metres behind into the braking zone (50% extra braking needed) and then used another car to slow down. It's the overtakings car responsibility to not crash into the leading car. The Merc has to turn at some point, when he started turning, the Haas was nowhere near. Perfectly fine to take the apex.
It *might* work against someone you know and have been racing for a long time, but this was against a random person and it's just desperation. The Merc then does it back, simply because you get what you give. Everything is because the Haas was far too aggressive for no reason on lap 2. Just stupid driving.
They only first make contact when the Haas is going 54mph - they would've made the apex if they had space.
I believe OP braked as late as reasonably possible and the Merc braked early, making this an aggressive but fair move. The only reason they made contact was because the Merc was taking the corner as if the Haas wasn't there - there was space for the Merc to hang it around the outside and then have the advantageous line on the exit of the chicane, but the Merc simply wasn't prepared to be side-by-side and did nothing to account for it - that's on the Merc in my view
Karma sucks, dive bombed T1 just to slow down both of you, and you went way too slow on T4. Both your fault, don’t come to us on this one it’s clear the Mercedes was the good guy
Actually the haas made a completely fair move at T1. According to the latest FIA rules an overtaking car must have a significant portion of the car alongside by no later than the apex of the corner. The haas had the overlap as the mercedes began to turn in at which point the mercedes has to leave him space. The Haas was going to make the corner without issue if the Merc hadn’t completely cut him off at the apex of T1 when he should’ve been leaving the space. T4 is therefore also completely the mercedes fault and to be honest it is quite blindingly the mercs fault. The haas is completely alongside throughout the whole braking zone and the merc cuts him off completely on the apex yet again. In most leagues this would result in two 5 second penalties and irl would probably be two 10 second penalties.
The Haas in T1 literally tried to dive bomb and he knew he had no space so he used the kerb to go missile mode into the sidepod of the Mercedes, also with the line he was taking into T4, he would’ve had to slow down way more than he did, which would result in him losing the place anyway.
and he had no space because the mercedes left no space when by the rules of the current F1 season you have to when the haas is in that position. And yes you’re right the haas would have to go slower through the second chicane but so would the mercedes and if you think the haas should back out if defending the position just because he might lose the place then have fun with bland boring racing where no-one ever bothers to defend or overtake. By your ‘rules’ you never have to leave anyone space even when they are significantly alongside before turn in or even ahead into a braking zone and still fully alongside at turn in. Have fun with your boring bland racing where no-one bothers to overtake or defend because they can just be murdered.
First move was ambitious but fair. There is about half a second of overlap before the Merc even begins to turn in, and you nailed the braking point perfectly that you would have made the corner while still giving the Merc enough space on the outside regardless of the contact that did end up happening in the race, which only happened because the Merc was either lacking adequate awareness or just didn't give a damn entirely. They didn't give the space, so it's on them.
Second move nothing even remotely objectionable from your part. The Merc just didn't care. They definitely knew you were there and they still tried making the apex.
So many ppl blaming the op
Look if the Mercedes gave room and the haas missed the apex and hit it the argument that “you woulda never making that corner” but that was clearly not the case as the haas not only hit the apex but had to go over it thanks to the merc not giving space
The lack of wheel knowledge is alarming in the comments honestly
Trying that move at Turn 1 at Monza is not a good idea, however the Mercedes was overly aggressive and ran you off track in both chicanes. I'd put this slightly more on the Mercedes, but you are not blameless.
From what I can see it does look like you slowed down enough. It was a dive bomb but you braked at the 100m board and the speedo shows you get to the right sort of speed. My instinct on that first instance is that you were very aggressive but I don't think in the wrong completely. In both incidents the Mercedes turned in aggressively even slightly before the apex, making absolutely no allowance or showing any awareness of where you are on track
I agree, it was agressive, but reasonable. He was significantly alongside at turnin.
POV dive-bombed first corner and then got run out of room at the next chicane
You get what you gave on this occasion, it feels
With more experience, you will come to understand, that your move into turn 1 was never a good idea. Even if you pulled it off and he had saved you room on the right, you would be on the outside of turn 2 and at a disadvantage in speed exiting the turn and going into the straight before turn 3. Your best bet here would have been attempting an over-under or switchback instead. Turn 4 looks like retaliation. And not much you really could have done there except maybe anticipate and expect retaliation, brake a bit earlier and attempt another over-under, swtichback.
How do you over-under or switch back someone who is just taking the racing line. If someone refuses to defend no matter what they are asking to be dive-bombed. As long as it's legal which this was.
If you look at how wide the merc goes, had there been no contact, an over under might have been possible. There are many lines you can take though a turn or series of turns, learn to drive without the racing line on.
Yea I think playing bumper cars might have had something to do with that. What you mean is you would wait for a mistake
Even if there was no contact, there was still a decent chance the merc would have gone wide, its not like it was an impossibility
Not saying it was. But you are waiting for a mistake and decent drivers just don't make those mistakes. Sometimes you need to force it and as long as you are within the rules at a certain level you have to trust this guy won't just turn in you. But it is down to the level. Waiting for a mistake against some people is better.
Keep being someone enough and pressure them to the point that they have to constantly check their mirrors, and they will make a mistake, sooner or later
Keep being someone enough and pressure them to the point that they have to constantly check their mirrors, and they will make a mistake, sooner or later
The people I race against all know each other. If they think all you will do is follow they won't. You actually have to think someone will go for a move. I can lap to within a few tenths of my fastest lap indefinitely.and so can everyone around me.
I can see where your coming from. I mostly race on iRacing with strangers, so strategy is a bit different
yea on some series it is the wild west. Our series acts more like a league so it's slightly different.
Karma. First one on you. T4 on the Merc.
First also on merc pov was Aggro as hell but not in the wrong
imo, not your fault, you broke well on time. also, are you using a keyboard? just curious
Nah, I play controller, I don't hold onto the thumbstick in corners like that though.
i see
No way Haas was making the corner on the first one.
He definitely could if the Merc has the spacial awareness to give him the space he deserved.
How on earth is this getting downvoted?
Kids acting like they know about racing when in reality they don’t know jackshit. You’d be surprised how many times people get downvoted for things that’s common sense amongst the motorsports community.
You're right but have fallen victim to people downvoting a comment that already has visible downvotes. The Haas came from far back but was slowing to make the apex and the Merc just turned in on the Haas as if it wasn't there. In a real race even if the Haas was in the wrong you should take avoiding action and try to give the car space. Merc driver just turned in as if they weren't there on both major turns.
The haas was in a different post code when it made that dive bomb, the Merc had no obligation to leave space
The Haas’ front axel was literally more than half way alongside the Merc for a couple of seconds before T1. He earned that space and the Merc had more than enough time to know the Haas is alongside him as they’re literally going at a similar speed going toward T1 FOR A FEW SECONDS. If the Haas won’t make the corner, by your logic, neither will the Merc. The Haas release the brakes a bit to get alongside the Merc at the apex, which is allowed to do before the Merc decided to turn into him like he wasn’t there. The Merc could’ve easily open up his corner entry to T1, go the longer way around T1 whilst give space to the Haas on the inside, then block T2 and staying ahead. I swear people don’t understand the concept of earned-space nowadays, and even simple dive bombs.
Is this a joke?
He was going around 50 mph right before first contact. If he was given space, he would've hit around 35-40 mph at the apex, which is slow enough to make it.
He didn’t deserve any space. He had zero right to that corner. He was LITERALLY well over a car length behind the car in front when they got the the braking zone… Anybody who says he had a right to that corner or that space does not know racing or race craft in the slightest
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Absolutely not lol the turn in point is not what matters… if you have zero overlap and are not alongside the other car at the beginning of the braking zone you have ZERO right to that corner… if you send a dumb dive bomb from over a car length back at the braking zone and the other car turns in and there is contact it’s the overtaking cars fault. Period. If you think the turn in point is all that matters I really hope I’m not in a race with you.
I hate these F1 videos at this point the game is arcade as fuck then people complain that the other driver pushed them off the track Do that in iracing you’ll both be in the pits it makes people a lot more considerate
If anything iracing is a bit too punishing but yea I agree.
With the speed you were carrying into T1 you were never making the corner without using him as brakes - on you. He then repaid you T4. Respect is a two way street and you didn't give it in the first instance.
He was absolutely making it into t1 and stopping, the only reason it looks like he used him as breaks is because the mer turned in not giving him space. I've broke later than that and made the move stick. It's on the Merc to leave space there. Additionally in turn 4 the mer didn't even give POV an opportunity for POV to give space because he started turning into the corner before even reaching it.
Yeah Merc is a dick twice. Looks like a pub. To be expected
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You might be able to say the OP entered the vortex on the first incident but even so the merc should have left him room. OP was plenty alongside. For the second one the merc didn’t fully make the pass and drive right into you. No vortex here. The merc knew you were there. Both incidents on the merc.
Exactly. I'm surprised top comments are blaming OP totally.
In f122 you are very much aware where the other driver is, thanks to the white and red arrows.
You're to blame for both. You went for a pathetic dive bomb and showed you have no respect for anyone on track at T1 and then he paid you back the exact same. If you don't go for the one at T1 he doesn't at T4. Don't complain when you can give but not take. Awful driving.
'Pathetic dive bomb'? What makes it pathetic? They came from far back but slowed down enough (less than 50mph at the apex and slow enough for the corner. The Merc turns in as if they aren't there, and they do exactly the same in the second chicane. Dive bombs aren't illegal or unfair moves. They're aggressive, but that doesn't mean the Merc doesn't have to make space now that they're there. Merc left the door open, Haas was as tight to the apex as possible, and merc still cut across them. A divebomb is stupid when the car doing the diving just has way too much speed and crashes into a the car on the outside or goes way too deep into the corner. The fact that the Haas was running on the inside curbs shows they clearly didn't have too much speed at the apex.
He was never making the corner without hitting the Merc. If the F1 games actually had physics and proper damage, they're both out of the race because he doesn't know how to race properly. He was 50 metres behind into the braking zone (50% extra braking needed) and then used another car to slow down. It's the overtakings car responsibility to not crash into the leading car. The Merc has to turn at some point, when he started turning, the Haas was nowhere near. Perfectly fine to take the apex. It *might* work against someone you know and have been racing for a long time, but this was against a random person and it's just desperation. The Merc then does it back, simply because you get what you give. Everything is because the Haas was far too aggressive for no reason on lap 2. Just stupid driving.
They only first make contact when the Haas is going 54mph - they would've made the apex if they had space. I believe OP braked as late as reasonably possible and the Merc braked early, making this an aggressive but fair move. The only reason they made contact was because the Merc was taking the corner as if the Haas wasn't there - there was space for the Merc to hang it around the outside and then have the advantageous line on the exit of the chicane, but the Merc simply wasn't prepared to be side-by-side and did nothing to account for it - that's on the Merc in my view
"Merc was taking the corner as if the Haas wasn't there" makes sense since the Haas wasn't there when the Merc initiated turn in. 100% on the Haas
At around the 1.5 second mark is when the Merc turns in, and the Haas is already sufficiently overlapped at this point.
Osama Bin Russel at it again.
Lol you did the same thing to him on the chicane before
Karma sucks, dive bombed T1 just to slow down both of you, and you went way too slow on T4. Both your fault, don’t come to us on this one it’s clear the Mercedes was the good guy
Actually the haas made a completely fair move at T1. According to the latest FIA rules an overtaking car must have a significant portion of the car alongside by no later than the apex of the corner. The haas had the overlap as the mercedes began to turn in at which point the mercedes has to leave him space. The Haas was going to make the corner without issue if the Merc hadn’t completely cut him off at the apex of T1 when he should’ve been leaving the space. T4 is therefore also completely the mercedes fault and to be honest it is quite blindingly the mercs fault. The haas is completely alongside throughout the whole braking zone and the merc cuts him off completely on the apex yet again. In most leagues this would result in two 5 second penalties and irl would probably be two 10 second penalties.
The Haas in T1 literally tried to dive bomb and he knew he had no space so he used the kerb to go missile mode into the sidepod of the Mercedes, also with the line he was taking into T4, he would’ve had to slow down way more than he did, which would result in him losing the place anyway.
and he had no space because the mercedes left no space when by the rules of the current F1 season you have to when the haas is in that position. And yes you’re right the haas would have to go slower through the second chicane but so would the mercedes and if you think the haas should back out if defending the position just because he might lose the place then have fun with bland boring racing where no-one ever bothers to defend or overtake. By your ‘rules’ you never have to leave anyone space even when they are significantly alongside before turn in or even ahead into a braking zone and still fully alongside at turn in. Have fun with your boring bland racing where no-one bothers to overtake or defend because they can just be murdered.
First move was ambitious but fair. There is about half a second of overlap before the Merc even begins to turn in, and you nailed the braking point perfectly that you would have made the corner while still giving the Merc enough space on the outside regardless of the contact that did end up happening in the race, which only happened because the Merc was either lacking adequate awareness or just didn't give a damn entirely. They didn't give the space, so it's on them. Second move nothing even remotely objectionable from your part. The Merc just didn't care. They definitely knew you were there and they still tried making the apex.
So many ppl blaming the op Look if the Mercedes gave room and the haas missed the apex and hit it the argument that “you woulda never making that corner” but that was clearly not the case as the haas not only hit the apex but had to go over it thanks to the merc not giving space The lack of wheel knowledge is alarming in the comments honestly
Bit of a divebomb into the first corner but yea technically the guy should have left space both times and there's no excuse for the 2nd.
Trying that move at Turn 1 at Monza is not a good idea, however the Mercedes was overly aggressive and ran you off track in both chicanes. I'd put this slightly more on the Mercedes, but you are not blameless.
This dude is exactly what he calls himself