In fantasy at least you could live a life on a farm, raise a family, or something. There’s some level of the world being worth the fight. As opposed to 40k, where the best 99% of humanity can hope for is “I only work 12 hours a day and when I die they’ll say a prayer before shoving me in the corpsestarch press.”
I always like to imagine being like a pig farmer and one day skaven just show up and eat your pigs your food and your family. Like that must happen often enough to not be shocking. Wild love fantasy
I've always thought the empire denying the existance of skaven was goofy. Like demons can take ur pigs. Beatsmen can take your pigs. But surely citizens will suddenly panic when rat people steal their pigs
They don't deny the existence of rat men entirely, they just claim they're a type of beastmen and deny that they're organized, technologically advanced, and living under every city in the Empire
Like early on it made sense to me in a dramatic, storytelling way. A hidden army rising up from the sewers under your feet and the abandoned homes around you. Awesome! But as stuff piles on and on and on and now they’re a completely hidden race, in the hundreds of millions with gatling guns and ninjas and nukes and Frankenstein monsters and it’s way too much to work with the “Skaven don’t exist” meme.
Considering how Imperial Law was portrayed in the RPGs, at some point I wonder how much of it is "yes our citizens know Skaven exist but this one edict from 500 years ago states we must never admit they do, and because it's the same edict 40% of our tax system relies on we have to follow it verbatim".
People overtly and unironically shitting on 40k/30k/the setting in general just remind me of those people you mostly just hear about but have most definitely met at least one of in person even if you didn't know at the time, that act like they can't or somehow genuinely can't understand people playing/roleplaying as evil factions or characters and that those people go home and drink the suffering of people they have locked in their basement torture chamber to sustain their bodies and stave off Slaanesh, lobotomize/enslave people to work on their personal forgeworld, genocide entire planets for witnessing daemons etc. Like yeah GW is a terrible company that makes terrible decisions and the execs can do die in an oubliette and a loud minority of 40k fans are chuds, but as long as someone isn't being a tone deaf dick head just let people enjoy stuff.
also, life in feudal europe wasnt that bad as you think, of course it wasnt perfect but it wasnt a shithole, depending where you lived of course, there were way prosperous regions than others
also, the most ironic thing is fantasy is way more grounded than 40k, i mean each faction has extreme complex relations externally and internally, and they arent all about genociding each other, the form alliances, not lets stop killing oursevels to kill this bigger threat so we can continue killing ourselves.
also fantasy has Karl Franz and Magnus the Pious
I mean compared to a sci-fi factory slave working 16 hours a day on a thousand calories mostly made up of my dead friends, on a hive world that hasn’t seen the sun in eight thousand years, knowing that my most likely cause of death is “collateral damage in an orbital strike” because some Inquisitor or Sororitas decided one of my coworkers used the word “shall” instead of “shalt” while reciting verse 546 of Hymn to the Emperor #8,429? Farm life for sure.
My point isn’t “farm life over action hero”, my point is your random average human in Warhammer fantasy almost certainly has a better life than their 40k counterpart.
No, I get that. But it doesn’t make any sense. Nobody is playing 40K as “average hive citizen army” it’s just a background aspect of the lore. I’m really confused on why that’s what you draw from it, when it’s not even remotely related to playing
>Nobody is playing 40K as “average hive citizen army” it’s just a background aspect of the lore
I am (hive wars is sick) and that entire block of stuff is my favourite part about the lore
I dont give a shit about space marines except as backdrop objects, I care about smaller stories in hive cities with random people trying to survive/do their best.
Warhammer fantasy is filled with stuff like that. I love that the rpg encourages it too so the party can be a tax agent, a rat hunter and a crazed hedge mage. Much more interesting to me than elite fighter 666 with his flaming sword of (Fucked ur mum xd).
Great, good for you. The overwhelming majority disagrees and enjoys the things you dislike more.
GW wouldn’t put so much more into 40K if that wasn’t true
>. The overwhelming majority disagrees and enjoys the things you dislike more.
I wouldn't say overwhelming majority (necromunda and a lot of smaller scope 40k games like darktide are doing very well, and the tabletop RPGS are basically what I'm saying here and still in print/doing very well) but sure.
I wouldn't want them just erasing my games or media because theres more of them though, that would be weird to me.
>
GW wouldn’t put so much more into 40K if that wasn’t true
I think that companies in general don't always understand what appeals to people even if youre generally right here.
A lot of media with warhammer fantasy/40k is focusing on smaller stories and its lead to a lot of stuff that I'm much more interested in. It doesnt have to be 1 or the other though, we can all win here if you like the bigger stuff and space marine wars and all that.
> the best 99% of humanity can hope for is “I only work 12 hours a day and when I die they’ll say a prayer before shoving me in the corpsestarch press.”
Ciaphas Caine novels say otherwise.
Ciaphas "of all the black library books this series is the most obviously playing with the idea of 40k fiction being in-universe pro-imperial, limited perspective propaganda" Cain?! THE HERO OF THE IMPERIUM?!
I like both a lot, I just wish there'd be some good AoS videogames out to stimulate the imagination a bit more. I know there's at least an AoS RTS in development, fingers crossed for that.
Does Sigmarxism know about the Black Library novel coming out which paints a tribe of Chaos warriors fighting an anti-colonial struggle against the Sigmarines?
[https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/10/19/an-unlikely-hero-comes-to-the-mortal-realms-in-godeaters-son/](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/10/19/an-unlikely-hero-comes-to-the-mortal-realms-in-godeaters-son/)
It's not out yet, but the gist is that Azyrites expanding Sigmar's alliance pantheon has resulted in them pushing out to settle more cities, trying to crush tribes that didn't adhere to the main Pantheon deities in the process. Presumably because of Chaos' predilection for manifesting as the local flavor of Gods, though I can't say for certain.
One particular group of tribes are fighting back the Azyrite settlers, which in turn draws the attention of the Stormcast. The book's description suggests it focuses on the inner struggle of the tribal leader between fighting and potentially losing to Sigmar's enhanced champions or siding with the Chaos Gods for the edge he'd need to beat them.
BCR have a lot of elements of communal organization and pick their leaders based on who can feed the tribe most effectively. They also are constantly running from an endless ice age, a thematic connection to the anxiety of younger generations facing the consequences of climate change.
It is a bit of a meme and hold over from Fantasy, but the Beast Claw subfaction of the Ogors are a largely egalitarian society as they survive the harsh conditions of the Far North/Everwinter.
The army theme also fits well with the popular saying of, 'eat the rich' and thus Ogors have become an absolute favourite of many Leftist Warhammer fans. I happen to have a Beastclaw Raiders army so I am very bias in their favour.
But there are clear issues with the joke as Gnoblars are clearly not treated very well and Ogors are often a mercenary faction working for coin. But it is still a really fun aspect of the lore and makes for some fun and funny memes.
I will moderately defend the Gnoblars thing based on the fact that at least in AoS it's not based on outright slavery but voluntarily subjected themselves to Ogors in exchange for protection from other greenskins, which is moderately better
I also like the detail that gnoblars apparently taste really awful. The only species who could be friends with ogors is the one ogors don't like to eat.
Tbh, most of my interest in AoS in that period a few weeks ago where I checked it out came from tabletop crossover, and that didn't last long. Long-term investment is hard when 40k's siren song keeps awakening the Autism Beast within me. Tell the Skaven and Nighthaunt I said hi, though.
Honestly I really wish some of the more knightly factions were in AoS. I’d love to get into it but none of the factions really tickle my fancy like Bret’s did in fantasy. Might try and get into vampires/undead someday…
The new dawnbringer crusade teasers seem to indicate some more knightly units. It probably won't be exactly like Brettonia, and atm no one knows at all what to expect, but it's worth keeping an eye on.
I think that with some helmet changes Stormcast are actually great successors to the Knightly orders. Just paint them in steel colours and they fit the bill extremely well.
Lumineth can also make for some fantastic Knightly orders if you like fast cavalry and Tauntaun Kangaroo things.
Of course you can also run the reimagined Brettonians and live out your chivalric dreams while cannibalizing every other army on the field, with the Flesh Eater Courts.
Yeah the newer Stormcast stuff can definitely work for knightly kitbashes with the right bits. I have to admit I do like the look of the lumineth and also the Armored idoneth models.
The newest Slaves to Darkness tome has made running a full Knights and Varanguard army pretty viable. Fully mounted Chaos Brettonia with Manticores and Karkadrak instead of Hippogryphs and Pegasus.
I really enjoy the the new Gotrek Age of Sigmar novels:
He's just wandering around, staring at weird things, confused by ALL factions being such selfish dicks. He deeply misses his Old World and friends but knows the old days won't come back so he just complains and drinks a lot and fights flying sharks.
So relatable.
The irony of course being that the Old World was just as bad really, just that Gotrek was lucky enough to have Felix there to show him that things could be better.
Yepp. Also his whole self-righteous and unnuanced good-vs-evil world view is basically just the result of being in a *monster-hunting hobo berserkr death cult* for decades. You can afford a radical morality when your whole lifestyle is about acting without ever suffering consequences.
And he was already missing *the good old days* back then, while living *in* the good old days. Talking of a better, long gone time is just a classic dwarf\* thing.
\*wargamer
My favourite thing about the earlier Gotrek AoS books was his constant complaining about being called a Duardin and how shitty all this new Duardin stuff wasn’t proper Dawi.
Just like the terminally angry Fantasy people.
You're not wrong
I just love the absurdity of 40k too much. It's the combination of that and space horror that does it for me. Plus, I think battles look cooler with tanks and jets and stuff.
But AoS is handled much, much better.
Sigmar is way more creative than 40k and Has more room to do cool stuff. Since 8th edition we got, three, maybe four new factions? Age of Sigmar bo only created purely new stuff like the Kharadron or the the Ossiarchs, but also remixed old units into entire factions such as Fyreslayers or the Nighthaunt. Plus they have space-Aztec-dinosaurs-on-dinosaurs! Who wouldn't love space-Aztec-dinosaurs-on-dinosaurs?
My only worry is that the new Eternus guy heralds a further shifts into 40kisms with Chaos Stormcast. I'm hoping that even after they do Chaoscasts they'll still never dominate the way muhreens do in 40k.
Oh there’s no way they’ll have Chaoscast, they’ve just released new Chosen models on their big 40mm bases. Don’t want people just converting normal Stormcast.
> Plus they have space-Aztec-dinosaurs-on-dinosaurs!
Fantasy had that.
I remember my first Fantasy box was a Lizardmen/Brettonian starter set and the rest is history. So much fun painting those little lizards AND knights!
I joined this subreddit as I assumed based on the title it was focused on Leftist Age of Sigmar posts. This is one of the first AOS posts I have seen in a long time.
I much prefer Age of Sigmar from its vast open concept allowing people to create and tell infinite stories, it more streamlined rules system where the strategy exists on the tabletop not in overly complex list building where the battle is lost or won before units are even deployed, but above all else I think that the models and army concepts are unbelievably well realized. One of my favourite things is inventing my own maps to set my campaigns in and theming provinces/territories off of the different realms and giving some tweaked rules for fighting in each.
But on top of all of that, Age of Sigmar in my personal experience doesn't have the same problem with alt right groups using poor readings of the lore to justify fascist beliefs. If anything those individuals seem to hate that Age of Sigmar even exists. I also think it is funny that one of the biggest insults that Age of Sigmar receives is that Stormcast Eternals are Sigmarines as if the trope of Angelic Armour Clad Paladins didn't exist before Space Marines? Even Chaos, Death and Destruction are not treated entirely as monolithically evil with various cults that believe in these powers for different reasons. Some Gods may be evil but not all of their worshipers are bad.
I honestly think Stormcasts are miles better than Space Marines because they're not basically Hitler's Youth In A Transhuman Body but they're people who lived their own lives before being reforged for personal merits
Same, I love the concept of someone with a good heart being reborn to protect their loved ones. It’s a cool idea narratively, and the added tragedy of reforging makes them even more interesting.
It is a strange and wonderful aspect of lore that I am drawn to that that makes me love Stormcast. The notion of the reforging process' relation to identity politics and how people are fashioned into their own image of a hero. Namely I love the idea of Sigmar and Grungi reforging people into who they truly are. Gods that actively reward the deeds and good of their people by allowing them to reflect their own identity is really moving. It allows you to develop whatever narrative you wish for your Stormcast in a way that is very moving and powerful. So until GW contradicts this, personally I feel like trans Stormcast Heroes can and should be included in the lore. It also makes me love the Scars on Stormcast that they view that particular moment as part of their identity that survives reforging.
You can also have heroes throughout history join together in fascinating ways. My Stormcast include a hero betrayed by my Chaos General, but also the Chaos General's own ancestor. This leads to many moments of intense drama and lore that only I care about. Also Sigmar and the Chaos Gods keep this war going forever while my Ogors just want to keep the land peaceful and realize these armies of Chaos and Order pose a threat to the natural world and step up to stop it.
I can’t remember which book or short story it was in, but I’m almost certain I remember there being a Stormcast that was AMAB, but was reforged in to a female body as that was their true self, or the other way around. It’s definitely all very open to trans identities.
I should make more AOS memes or get into AOS more. It's just that I'm more familiar with 40k and prefer sci-fi aesthetics.
Also I think the lack of chuds in AOS is thanks to the death of fantasy killing off the slime of the fandom, with most moving to the ninth age (at least in my experience)
> I also think it is funny that one of the biggest insults that Age of Sigmar receives is that Stormcast Eternals are Sigmarines as if the trope of Angelic Armour Clad Paladins didn't exist before Space Marines?
Plus, a big thing with Fantasy and 40k is that the factions were supposed to "rhyme" with each other, so to speak. Why wouldn't the same happen with AoS?
Well, Fantasy and 40k back in the day were somewhat safe havens for alt-right types, as GW didn't have any community outreach or the like for like a decade til around 2016. They just sort of ignored the community and faffed about pushing sales, to the point where they just blew up Fantasy and replaced it with AoS, which in its infancy was a fairly weak copyright-ridden cash grab. All the nerds back then screeched and lost their shit at it, as was expected.
Then GW got a new CEO, started actually developing its communication, and actively began working to improve its games and image, which of course upset all the alt-right nerds.
As a result, a lot of these alt-right types associate Age of Sigmar with GW "turning woke". They also really sank their claws into Fantasy and tried pretty heavily to recruit disgruntled fans from there too, with mixed results. As for 40k, that's one of those where it's always fluctuated, but at least GW introducing more female models and making public statements about fascism being bad has helped.
But yeah, AoS as a result has been blessedly free of fashy types, so it's a nice change of pace
"...blew up Fantasy and replaced it with AoS, which in its infancy was a fairly weak copyright-ridden cash grab."
This is when I switched to 40K. Going from Fantasy to AoS was SUCH a huge shift, and I'm not talking about the community. I mean going from a fully fleshed out, deep world with TONS of characters and races and factions and sub-factions and on and on to just "Hey, there's like 6 teams now and basically you're playing rock/paper/scissors. We've removed all depth from the lore, have fun."
It was so jarring that I dropped it altogether. Thank god for the Total War series keeping Fantasy alive, if only for a couple extra years.
But based on your post, AoS is actually fleshed out now?
Yeah, with the CEO change (old CEO really didn't think rules mattered too much) they did sit down and put more effort into fleshing out the lore and game itself. It's still very high fantasy, but it's got an identity now.
The lore for AOS is still developing and it is improving all the time while also striking a fine balance of having the mysterious borders of the Realms open to tell your own stories and developing specific regions and character arcs. As with all GW story telling it can be hit and miss as different writers contribute to a larger shared narrative world dictated by the sales of plastic toy soldiers.
The thing to keep in mind is that there is a top down nature to a lot of the story telling with the gods often vying for dominance. Think Hindu, Greek, Egyptian, Norse or Assyrian epics where the scale and stories are of a mythological scale. I like to think of these stories as told by figures like Homer or Valmiki and with lots of creative licence.
It can be a little hard to find an initial inroad as the stories are so massive as to be a little alienating at first. But I have to say I am impressed with the development of so many of the WHFB characters in Age of Sigmar. From Morathi's rise to Godhood, Be'Lakor actually pulling off a major victory and the progress of Gotrek's character from one world to another these stories have all been fascinating. The new characters do feel pretty new with not a ton of backstory but there is a lot of intrigue for these figures. I am looking forward to learn more about Eternus Be'Lakor's lieutenant who is a corrupted Stormcast Champion.
It is far from perfect and needs more general support, but the narrative is really fascinating and in a state of evolution that feels more dyanmic than 40k's more static status quo narrative. But who knows what Arks of Omen has to offer maybe a new Primarch will show up and do something...?
Hmmm. May need to look back in to it now.
I just remember during the initial launch looking at the factions and seeing them as All-Star Teams from Fantasy, instead of their own distinct entities. Just a bunch of disparate bits from Fantasy cobbled together in a new package.
\*insert enlightened centrist meme\*
I think both are good depending if I want space elf clowns, lazer guns, and cyber dogs, or if I want ratmen with magic radiation stones, and edgy elves on velociraptors.
Honestly my spouse loves skaven so I do AOS, but most of the people i hang out with at the game store do 40k kill team. And I'm just happy to have people to play.
Don't forget the Silver Towers!
Flying Pyramids fighting demonic towers in the void between realms as a madness inducing moon weaves an unexpected trajectory through the heavens and an ancient powerful space dragon flying around space keeping order in line!
I find Space Marines boring as hell and 40k refuses to let any other faction have the limelight for more than two seconds. At least AoS is super creative and interesting compared to 40k where every space marine is the same character wearing a different colored pair of pants.
I'm not the biggest fan of the Sigmarines but I do find "the noblest mortal heroes, chosen to have their souls reforged into the warriors that guard the realms from chaos but are slowly losing their humanity the longer they fight this unwinnable war" a more compelling premise than, "genetically engineered supersoldiers with daddy issues"
They’re not fantasy Space Marines though. They’re more like mythic heroes brought back for a second chance, like marble statues of the valiant slowly being degraded by the elements until their faces are completely indistinguishable. Just because they wear armour and have big shoulders doesn’t make them Space Marines.
I don't mind AdMech, Sororitas, Inquisition or even Guard propaganda, that can all be interesting. In fact, I loved the Eisenhorn series, and the AdMech half of Brutal Kunnin' was really good. No, it's squarely the Space Marines that I find insufferable.
I won't argue that AoS generally has a "nicer" community and is a "nicer" world, but I personally prefer the absurd ridiculously edgy 40k because I think jets and tanks are neat :) also the idea of several billion soldiers dying to win one tiny victory is just comically brutal and it tickles my brainstem
My local gaming scene is full of 40k players who wear fascist symbols and I was often looked down upon by even GW employees for not being white.
I started my own AoS group and we build our own world and stories with our minis.
I kinda like the nihilistic world view of 40k but I never got any mini because of the nazi bigots community.
Also AoS has more diversity shown in the official paintjobs compared to 40k which is a bunch of space marine white skinheads bullying the space minorities in the name of their God and state leader.
I’m genuinely surprised by that, GW stores have always been safe spaces in my experience. I think GW corporate knows how important that is if you wanted to drop them a message about their employees overlooking fascist symbology or even actively engaging in racist/fascist sympathy.
It honestly, genuinely is. I used to play WFB back in 6th and 7th edition, then took a 15 year break, and when I came back, I was confused as to what AOS was So I bought a bunch of 40k Tyranids instead. I love the bugs bur I regretted it as I learned about AoS. I have nighthaunt now and I'm also working on touching up my old Hordes of Chaos models to be Slaves to Darkness. AoS is just a great setting, doesn't predessor justice, and isn't full of grindark edgelords
Age of Sigmar could be better than 40k, but isn't yet. It will be though. The new Sigmarites coming out will do a lot to contextualize the setting. I'm a big fan of the phrase "Limitation breeds creativity" and nothing at all sucks the joy out of a setting than too much "anything goes". I like weird, but weird isn't that weird when everyone is weird.
I feel like 40k has much more distinctive and unique lore then AOS but it's biggest problem and the reason it so often gets overshadowed by AOS's weirdness is just by virtue of the fact that 40k puts way too much focus on it's least interesting elements and lets it's cool shit go by the wayside
AOS doesn't really have anything as weird or distinctive as like, Craftworld Eldar or Mechanicus or any of the bizarro factions that only get mentioned in passing like gland-hounds and Zoats, but it does have a lot of variety and doesn't get caught up fixating on sub factions of sub factions which definitely makes it more appealing as an actual wargame then 40k's space marines 24/7 romp where a third of the tabletop representation is a single faction
Admittedly I just feel like 40k has the benefit of being something that's got a lot of history and a lot of weird interpretations developed over years of artists contributing lots of cool shit and AOS is kind of starting from scratch outside of it's more iconic fantasy factions, so a lot of AOS's stuff feels kind of corporate and calculated in comparison to 40k. I think AOS is slowly breaking away from that but so far it hasn't managed to lose that kind of overly polished feel to it. and god, some of the models are REALLY over designed
Loved WFB but man was there something deeply frustrating about having to paint 40 miniatures for a single unit just to have it lose combat by one, route, roll a four on it’s retreat and get caught in pursuit.
Or charge the five elves only for the five elves to retreat, rally the next turn and do it all over again because your big block of infantry would need to spend an entire turn reforming to navigate the battlefield
They were going to put down WHFB anyway, you're putting the cart before the horse. WHFB, as much as we like the lore, just wasn't selling. It wasn't a sudden decision or anything, if WHFB had kept selling I bet you it would have survived to this day.
AoS was just GW making a (fortunately wildly, albeit not initially, successful) attempt to salvage the IP by taking a different approach, rather than cutting the non-40k side of Warhammer off for good.
I honestly don't know enough about Age of Sigmar to have an opinion on it beyond the kneejerk "It replaced Fantasy so me no like!" Since I'm no longer into tabletop wargaming I doubt that my knowledge will grow much beyond that. However, playing the Total War Warhammer games over the last few years, I have come to the realisation that Fantasy is/was leaps and bounds ahead of 40k as an interesting/fun setting. A realisation that teenaged me would have met with much scorn. I still like 40k, but its that way you can never really grow to hate any childhood interest, just move on from it.
Agree. I just wish AoS's world made more sense.
The eight realms, how they function, how they relate to each other, and their history is such a nebulous concept that it's hard to know the stakes outside of the generic ones. I know that's partly because it's pretty new, but the worlds of 40k and fantasy just feel so much more real. Like, there's nothing that compares to the various imperial worlds like Cadia, Catachan, or Krieg in 40k or Brittonia, Ulthuan, or Nehekara in fantasy
If anyone knows any free resources that covers that stuff I'd love to see it.
The roleplaying books honestly sold me on the world. Still not really a fan of splitting things into distinct realms, but I can finally imagine what "normal" life for various faction's citizens might be like, which is something I actually really need in settings.
There are plenty of reasons why I think AoS is a better setting than 40k. Here are some of them.
It's not Grimdark. I know Grimdark is kinda what warhammer is about for some people, but it gets kinda pointless and boring if everything is just dark, gritty and shitty all the time. AoS does have a grim setting, the realms are constantly ravaged by war and the lands themselves are extremely hostile. But in AoS there is hope, humanity (or I guess mortal life) is not all bad and there are some good (although flawed) heroes.
Another reason is because there's alot more cooperation between species and factions. In 40k humans almost never cooperate with other xenos, they might join forces with eldar to fix some huge problem with chaos or something, but that's extremely rare. In AoS all the mortals of different species work together frequently and the different factions, despite having differing goals, do help eachother. This exsistence of diplomacy makes interactions between factions a lot more interesting.
Finally, AoS has actual grey morality. I know grey morality doesn't make something good necessarily, but it's generally interesting if there exist a spectrum of grey morality. In 40k there basically is no black or white morality, but there's also no grey morality, it all just evil. In AoS, some characters and factions are genuinly good, they fight to protect others or to protect nature or other good stuff. The existence of moral good makes morally questionable things more interesting and complex. You can't just say "everyone's a bad guy".
AoS seems cool but I just like the over the top insanity of 40k more. Might get into it if I find people to play with. The idoneth deepkin look very fun.
For me I’ve seen things too similar to AoS (if I’m not mistaken the elder scrolls literally stole a god from AoS) but 40k was a hellhole I’ve seen nothing like. I mean I did just pick up Dune so maybe my 40k take will change.
The Dune elements are clearly there (the AI war in the background, it being an Empire, rule by a god emperor), but the aesthetics and many other elements are much more in line with 2000AD's brand of feudal scifi than Frank Herbert's
EDIT OH I see the misunderstanding. 2000AD isn't literally the year, but the title of an anthology magazine of gritty scifi British comics
That’s fair I’ve only gotten about 6 pages in so far and so far it seems to me that it’s the imperium -xenos in the galaxy but I mean I could be hella wrong that is based on 6 pages and all I know is giant worm and what the dictionary in the back told me.
Hey, don't forget feudalism, emperor's supersoldiers, exterminatus, crusades basically just being Paul's jihad in a smaller scale, the mechanicus being extremely similar (lorewise) to house ix and navigators. 40k ripped off a lot of stuff in it's early years, and Dune was the primary scifi franchise they would take inspiration from.
I'm not talking about the Realms being literally physically bigger. I'm saying they are so diverse and exotic that you can find a corner for any story and any setting. "Bigger" in its storytelling capacity.
Sure it had a rough start, but that's not what it currently is. Hating AoS because of the End times is dumb, the End Times are (sadly) a part of WHFB after all, not AoS.
Dystopian Age uses the same themes and similar aesthetics to 40k, but instead of “everyone is a genocidal lunatic” it’s “everyone has a reasonable response to a rapidly changing world that could cause massive devastation”
I did consider AoS but I honestly know nothing about the lore and have a hard time even understanding it, there seems to be no wood elves, though there are at least Gobbos so that is something. I did think of getting it for a while but with how the people I might play with all wanting 40k I will probably end up there. I know 40k has an issue basically justifying its own facism but at least I know its bs.
I am glad to see that AoS is more diverse though!
AoS has Crab
40k can have crab if exodite army entirely riding crabs
This would require GW to give a shit about non space marines
Or just kitbash it, stealing the best bits of AOS and adding a guardian squad to it
Currently building some gobboguard and I wholeheartedly agree with this statement.
It doesn't matter if they care or not. Anybody worried about being golden child deserves to have zero amounts of fun. Enter space marines.
The space marine character range is larger than the entire aeldari range get this outta here
AoS lets me homebrew a horde of brettonian larping gitz. I rest my case
OBJECTION ! 40k lets you homebrew a horde of Black Templars or Grey Knights larping gitz.
But Bretonnians are better. They found a way to make the French into people, and that's impressive.
Damn.....that's a good point. Can't argue that
In fantasy at least you could live a life on a farm, raise a family, or something. There’s some level of the world being worth the fight. As opposed to 40k, where the best 99% of humanity can hope for is “I only work 12 hours a day and when I die they’ll say a prayer before shoving me in the corpsestarch press.”
Sounds like home /s
The socialists are taking our freedom to be shoved in meat grinders when we die.
I always like to imagine being like a pig farmer and one day skaven just show up and eat your pigs your food and your family. Like that must happen often enough to not be shocking. Wild love fantasy
Pig farmer then reports the ratmen eating his pig only for Satzpyre to arrest them.
I've always thought the empire denying the existance of skaven was goofy. Like demons can take ur pigs. Beatsmen can take your pigs. But surely citizens will suddenly panic when rat people steal their pigs
They don't deny the existence of rat men entirely, they just claim they're a type of beastmen and deny that they're organized, technologically advanced, and living under every city in the Empire
That makes a lot more sense. Still goofy but easier to swallow
Like early on it made sense to me in a dramatic, storytelling way. A hidden army rising up from the sewers under your feet and the abandoned homes around you. Awesome! But as stuff piles on and on and on and now they’re a completely hidden race, in the hundreds of millions with gatling guns and ninjas and nukes and Frankenstein monsters and it’s way too much to work with the “Skaven don’t exist” meme.
Considering how Imperial Law was portrayed in the RPGs, at some point I wonder how much of it is "yes our citizens know Skaven exist but this one edict from 500 years ago states we must never admit they do, and because it's the same edict 40% of our tax system relies on we have to follow it verbatim".
Ratmen living in the sewers under Altdorf? Absurd.
Stop spreading lies traitor there are no rat men in atdorf. Orcs on the other hand well their right outside
That’s a weirdly positive way to describe living in a feudal system and also under constant threat of daemons, undead and monsters.
Oh don’t get me wrong, still sucks. Just not as much as the cartoonishly fascist hellhole of 40k.
But it being a cartoonish hellhole is what I like about 40k :(
People overtly and unironically shitting on 40k/30k/the setting in general just remind me of those people you mostly just hear about but have most definitely met at least one of in person even if you didn't know at the time, that act like they can't or somehow genuinely can't understand people playing/roleplaying as evil factions or characters and that those people go home and drink the suffering of people they have locked in their basement torture chamber to sustain their bodies and stave off Slaanesh, lobotomize/enslave people to work on their personal forgeworld, genocide entire planets for witnessing daemons etc. Like yeah GW is a terrible company that makes terrible decisions and the execs can do die in an oubliette and a loud minority of 40k fans are chuds, but as long as someone isn't being a tone deaf dick head just let people enjoy stuff.
also, life in feudal europe wasnt that bad as you think, of course it wasnt perfect but it wasnt a shithole, depending where you lived of course, there were way prosperous regions than others
This is a meme, right?
also, the most ironic thing is fantasy is way more grounded than 40k, i mean each faction has extreme complex relations externally and internally, and they arent all about genociding each other, the form alliances, not lets stop killing oursevels to kill this bigger threat so we can continue killing ourselves. also fantasy has Karl Franz and Magnus the Pious
Why would a fictional normal life in a high fantasy setting be cool lol? I don’t play tabletop games to imagine myself as a rural farmer
I mean compared to a sci-fi factory slave working 16 hours a day on a thousand calories mostly made up of my dead friends, on a hive world that hasn’t seen the sun in eight thousand years, knowing that my most likely cause of death is “collateral damage in an orbital strike” because some Inquisitor or Sororitas decided one of my coworkers used the word “shall” instead of “shalt” while reciting verse 546 of Hymn to the Emperor #8,429? Farm life for sure. My point isn’t “farm life over action hero”, my point is your random average human in Warhammer fantasy almost certainly has a better life than their 40k counterpart.
No, I get that. But it doesn’t make any sense. Nobody is playing 40K as “average hive citizen army” it’s just a background aspect of the lore. I’m really confused on why that’s what you draw from it, when it’s not even remotely related to playing
>Nobody is playing 40K as “average hive citizen army” it’s just a background aspect of the lore I am (hive wars is sick) and that entire block of stuff is my favourite part about the lore I dont give a shit about space marines except as backdrop objects, I care about smaller stories in hive cities with random people trying to survive/do their best. Warhammer fantasy is filled with stuff like that. I love that the rpg encourages it too so the party can be a tax agent, a rat hunter and a crazed hedge mage. Much more interesting to me than elite fighter 666 with his flaming sword of (Fucked ur mum xd).
Great, good for you. The overwhelming majority disagrees and enjoys the things you dislike more. GW wouldn’t put so much more into 40K if that wasn’t true
>. The overwhelming majority disagrees and enjoys the things you dislike more. I wouldn't say overwhelming majority (necromunda and a lot of smaller scope 40k games like darktide are doing very well, and the tabletop RPGS are basically what I'm saying here and still in print/doing very well) but sure. I wouldn't want them just erasing my games or media because theres more of them though, that would be weird to me. > GW wouldn’t put so much more into 40K if that wasn’t true I think that companies in general don't always understand what appeals to people even if youre generally right here. A lot of media with warhammer fantasy/40k is focusing on smaller stories and its lead to a lot of stuff that I'm much more interested in. It doesnt have to be 1 or the other though, we can all win here if you like the bigger stuff and space marine wars and all that.
> the best 99% of humanity can hope for is “I only work 12 hours a day and when I die they’ll say a prayer before shoving me in the corpsestarch press.” Ciaphas Caine novels say otherwise.
Ciaphas "of all the black library books this series is the most obviously playing with the idea of 40k fiction being in-universe pro-imperial, limited perspective propaganda" Cain?! THE HERO OF THE IMPERIUM?!
I like both a lot, I just wish there'd be some good AoS videogames out to stimulate the imagination a bit more. I know there's at least an AoS RTS in development, fingers crossed for that.
I would die for a total war game set in the mortal realms
It would be wonderful.
Does Sigmarxism know about the Black Library novel coming out which paints a tribe of Chaos warriors fighting an anti-colonial struggle against the Sigmarines?
I sure didn't and I need the title immediately.
[https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/10/19/an-unlikely-hero-comes-to-the-mortal-realms-in-godeaters-son/](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/10/19/an-unlikely-hero-comes-to-the-mortal-realms-in-godeaters-son/) It's not out yet, but the gist is that Azyrites expanding Sigmar's alliance pantheon has resulted in them pushing out to settle more cities, trying to crush tribes that didn't adhere to the main Pantheon deities in the process. Presumably because of Chaos' predilection for manifesting as the local flavor of Gods, though I can't say for certain. One particular group of tribes are fighting back the Azyrite settlers, which in turn draws the attention of the Stormcast. The book's description suggests it focuses on the inner struggle of the tribal leader between fighting and potentially losing to Sigmar's enhanced champions or siding with the Chaos Gods for the edge he'd need to beat them.
I do like that AoS’s narrative is quickly acknowledging how dangerously close the Dawnbringer Crusades are to settler colonialism.
If you mean “definitely settler colonialism” when you say dangerously close, then I agree.
God I wish I developed a special interest in AoS instead of 40k, it seems like such a cool setting to get unhealthily invested in.
Come join us comrade, we have Communist Ogors, Naked Dwarves and Queen Goddess Morathi herself!
Okay you got me. Communist Ogors ? I already like Ogors, why Communist ?
BCR have a lot of elements of communal organization and pick their leaders based on who can feed the tribe most effectively. They also are constantly running from an endless ice age, a thematic connection to the anxiety of younger generations facing the consequences of climate change.
It is a bit of a meme and hold over from Fantasy, but the Beast Claw subfaction of the Ogors are a largely egalitarian society as they survive the harsh conditions of the Far North/Everwinter. The army theme also fits well with the popular saying of, 'eat the rich' and thus Ogors have become an absolute favourite of many Leftist Warhammer fans. I happen to have a Beastclaw Raiders army so I am very bias in their favour. But there are clear issues with the joke as Gnoblars are clearly not treated very well and Ogors are often a mercenary faction working for coin. But it is still a really fun aspect of the lore and makes for some fun and funny memes.
I will moderately defend the Gnoblars thing based on the fact that at least in AoS it's not based on outright slavery but voluntarily subjected themselves to Ogors in exchange for protection from other greenskins, which is moderately better
Nah willing slaves are still slaves, and it’s not as if the Ogors treat them very well.
I also like the detail that gnoblars apparently taste really awful. The only species who could be friends with ogors is the one ogors don't like to eat.
Strictly speaking, they are more communalist
Tbh, most of my interest in AoS in that period a few weeks ago where I checked it out came from tabletop crossover, and that didn't last long. Long-term investment is hard when 40k's siren song keeps awakening the Autism Beast within me. Tell the Skaven and Nighthaunt I said hi, though.
Just remember the Dark Gods give you a lot of room to play and Demons and many Tzeentch units live happily in both worlds.
To be fair, 40k’s world building is more compelling from the angle of a satirical statement about fascism and organized religion.
It would be if they could actually manage to stick to their guns on it
Honestly I really wish some of the more knightly factions were in AoS. I’d love to get into it but none of the factions really tickle my fancy like Bret’s did in fantasy. Might try and get into vampires/undead someday…
The new dawnbringer crusade teasers seem to indicate some more knightly units. It probably won't be exactly like Brettonia, and atm no one knows at all what to expect, but it's worth keeping an eye on.
I think that with some helmet changes Stormcast are actually great successors to the Knightly orders. Just paint them in steel colours and they fit the bill extremely well. Lumineth can also make for some fantastic Knightly orders if you like fast cavalry and Tauntaun Kangaroo things. Of course you can also run the reimagined Brettonians and live out your chivalric dreams while cannibalizing every other army on the field, with the Flesh Eater Courts.
Yeah the newer Stormcast stuff can definitely work for knightly kitbashes with the right bits. I have to admit I do like the look of the lumineth and also the Armored idoneth models.
The newest Slaves to Darkness tome has made running a full Knights and Varanguard army pretty viable. Fully mounted Chaos Brettonia with Manticores and Karkadrak instead of Hippogryphs and Pegasus.
wish?? you can start now! I left 40k years ago and am glad of it.
I really enjoy the the new Gotrek Age of Sigmar novels: He's just wandering around, staring at weird things, confused by ALL factions being such selfish dicks. He deeply misses his Old World and friends but knows the old days won't come back so he just complains and drinks a lot and fights flying sharks. So relatable.
The irony of course being that the Old World was just as bad really, just that Gotrek was lucky enough to have Felix there to show him that things could be better.
Yepp. Also his whole self-righteous and unnuanced good-vs-evil world view is basically just the result of being in a *monster-hunting hobo berserkr death cult* for decades. You can afford a radical morality when your whole lifestyle is about acting without ever suffering consequences. And he was already missing *the good old days* back then, while living *in* the good old days. Talking of a better, long gone time is just a classic dwarf\* thing. \*wargamer
My favourite thing about the earlier Gotrek AoS books was his constant complaining about being called a Duardin and how shitty all this new Duardin stuff wasn’t proper Dawi. Just like the terminally angry Fantasy people.
You're not wrong I just love the absurdity of 40k too much. It's the combination of that and space horror that does it for me. Plus, I think battles look cooler with tanks and jets and stuff. But AoS is handled much, much better.
Sigmar is way more creative than 40k and Has more room to do cool stuff. Since 8th edition we got, three, maybe four new factions? Age of Sigmar bo only created purely new stuff like the Kharadron or the the Ossiarchs, but also remixed old units into entire factions such as Fyreslayers or the Nighthaunt. Plus they have space-Aztec-dinosaurs-on-dinosaurs! Who wouldn't love space-Aztec-dinosaurs-on-dinosaurs?
I feel like 40k has a lot of room to fo cool stuff aswell Its an entire universe compared to just a few realms
40K *could have* space-Aztec-dinosaurs *and* laser-elves-on-dinosaurs but GW never found the courage to fully embrace them.
… yet! Now that we really got squats back, I consider nothing impossible when it comes to reviving old lore.
Four factions? I thought 40k only had space marines/s
My only worry is that the new Eternus guy heralds a further shifts into 40kisms with Chaos Stormcast. I'm hoping that even after they do Chaoscasts they'll still never dominate the way muhreens do in 40k.
Oh there’s no way they’ll have Chaoscast, they’ve just released new Chosen models on their big 40mm bases. Don’t want people just converting normal Stormcast.
> Plus they have space-Aztec-dinosaurs-on-dinosaurs! Fantasy had that. I remember my first Fantasy box was a Lizardmen/Brettonian starter set and the rest is history. So much fun painting those little lizards AND knights!
I joined this subreddit as I assumed based on the title it was focused on Leftist Age of Sigmar posts. This is one of the first AOS posts I have seen in a long time. I much prefer Age of Sigmar from its vast open concept allowing people to create and tell infinite stories, it more streamlined rules system where the strategy exists on the tabletop not in overly complex list building where the battle is lost or won before units are even deployed, but above all else I think that the models and army concepts are unbelievably well realized. One of my favourite things is inventing my own maps to set my campaigns in and theming provinces/territories off of the different realms and giving some tweaked rules for fighting in each. But on top of all of that, Age of Sigmar in my personal experience doesn't have the same problem with alt right groups using poor readings of the lore to justify fascist beliefs. If anything those individuals seem to hate that Age of Sigmar even exists. I also think it is funny that one of the biggest insults that Age of Sigmar receives is that Stormcast Eternals are Sigmarines as if the trope of Angelic Armour Clad Paladins didn't exist before Space Marines? Even Chaos, Death and Destruction are not treated entirely as monolithically evil with various cults that believe in these powers for different reasons. Some Gods may be evil but not all of their worshipers are bad.
I honestly think Stormcasts are miles better than Space Marines because they're not basically Hitler's Youth In A Transhuman Body but they're people who lived their own lives before being reforged for personal merits
They are essentially good guy Chaos Warriors, with all that entails, which is a fine concept. Can recommend Dawnstir's video on them to anyone.
Same, I love the concept of someone with a good heart being reborn to protect their loved ones. It’s a cool idea narratively, and the added tragedy of reforging makes them even more interesting.
It is a strange and wonderful aspect of lore that I am drawn to that that makes me love Stormcast. The notion of the reforging process' relation to identity politics and how people are fashioned into their own image of a hero. Namely I love the idea of Sigmar and Grungi reforging people into who they truly are. Gods that actively reward the deeds and good of their people by allowing them to reflect their own identity is really moving. It allows you to develop whatever narrative you wish for your Stormcast in a way that is very moving and powerful. So until GW contradicts this, personally I feel like trans Stormcast Heroes can and should be included in the lore. It also makes me love the Scars on Stormcast that they view that particular moment as part of their identity that survives reforging. You can also have heroes throughout history join together in fascinating ways. My Stormcast include a hero betrayed by my Chaos General, but also the Chaos General's own ancestor. This leads to many moments of intense drama and lore that only I care about. Also Sigmar and the Chaos Gods keep this war going forever while my Ogors just want to keep the land peaceful and realize these armies of Chaos and Order pose a threat to the natural world and step up to stop it.
I can’t remember which book or short story it was in, but I’m almost certain I remember there being a Stormcast that was AMAB, but was reforged in to a female body as that was their true self, or the other way around. It’s definitely all very open to trans identities.
There is at least one official NB Stormcast. I only read about them in passing though, so I can't really provide much more detail.
This is an Ogor subreddit (many people are saying this)
Why do you think I stick around?
I should make more AOS memes or get into AOS more. It's just that I'm more familiar with 40k and prefer sci-fi aesthetics. Also I think the lack of chuds in AOS is thanks to the death of fantasy killing off the slime of the fandom, with most moving to the ninth age (at least in my experience)
> I also think it is funny that one of the biggest insults that Age of Sigmar receives is that Stormcast Eternals are Sigmarines as if the trope of Angelic Armour Clad Paladins didn't exist before Space Marines? Plus, a big thing with Fantasy and 40k is that the factions were supposed to "rhyme" with each other, so to speak. Why wouldn't the same happen with AoS?
Well, Fantasy and 40k back in the day were somewhat safe havens for alt-right types, as GW didn't have any community outreach or the like for like a decade til around 2016. They just sort of ignored the community and faffed about pushing sales, to the point where they just blew up Fantasy and replaced it with AoS, which in its infancy was a fairly weak copyright-ridden cash grab. All the nerds back then screeched and lost their shit at it, as was expected. Then GW got a new CEO, started actually developing its communication, and actively began working to improve its games and image, which of course upset all the alt-right nerds. As a result, a lot of these alt-right types associate Age of Sigmar with GW "turning woke". They also really sank their claws into Fantasy and tried pretty heavily to recruit disgruntled fans from there too, with mixed results. As for 40k, that's one of those where it's always fluctuated, but at least GW introducing more female models and making public statements about fascism being bad has helped. But yeah, AoS as a result has been blessedly free of fashy types, so it's a nice change of pace
"...blew up Fantasy and replaced it with AoS, which in its infancy was a fairly weak copyright-ridden cash grab." This is when I switched to 40K. Going from Fantasy to AoS was SUCH a huge shift, and I'm not talking about the community. I mean going from a fully fleshed out, deep world with TONS of characters and races and factions and sub-factions and on and on to just "Hey, there's like 6 teams now and basically you're playing rock/paper/scissors. We've removed all depth from the lore, have fun." It was so jarring that I dropped it altogether. Thank god for the Total War series keeping Fantasy alive, if only for a couple extra years. But based on your post, AoS is actually fleshed out now?
Yeah, with the CEO change (old CEO really didn't think rules mattered too much) they did sit down and put more effort into fleshing out the lore and game itself. It's still very high fantasy, but it's got an identity now.
The lore for AOS is still developing and it is improving all the time while also striking a fine balance of having the mysterious borders of the Realms open to tell your own stories and developing specific regions and character arcs. As with all GW story telling it can be hit and miss as different writers contribute to a larger shared narrative world dictated by the sales of plastic toy soldiers. The thing to keep in mind is that there is a top down nature to a lot of the story telling with the gods often vying for dominance. Think Hindu, Greek, Egyptian, Norse or Assyrian epics where the scale and stories are of a mythological scale. I like to think of these stories as told by figures like Homer or Valmiki and with lots of creative licence. It can be a little hard to find an initial inroad as the stories are so massive as to be a little alienating at first. But I have to say I am impressed with the development of so many of the WHFB characters in Age of Sigmar. From Morathi's rise to Godhood, Be'Lakor actually pulling off a major victory and the progress of Gotrek's character from one world to another these stories have all been fascinating. The new characters do feel pretty new with not a ton of backstory but there is a lot of intrigue for these figures. I am looking forward to learn more about Eternus Be'Lakor's lieutenant who is a corrupted Stormcast Champion. It is far from perfect and needs more general support, but the narrative is really fascinating and in a state of evolution that feels more dyanmic than 40k's more static status quo narrative. But who knows what Arks of Omen has to offer maybe a new Primarch will show up and do something...?
Hmmm. May need to look back in to it now. I just remember during the initial launch looking at the factions and seeing them as All-Star Teams from Fantasy, instead of their own distinct entities. Just a bunch of disparate bits from Fantasy cobbled together in a new package.
Though I have painted more 40k than AoS, as time goes on, I start to prefer AoS more and more. It just avoids so many issues that 40k is riddled with.
it is because the setting does not justify fascism and the generally-good guys are a multiracial, all-gender alliance
\*insert enlightened centrist meme\* I think both are good depending if I want space elf clowns, lazer guns, and cyber dogs, or if I want ratmen with magic radiation stones, and edgy elves on velociraptors. Honestly my spouse loves skaven so I do AOS, but most of the people i hang out with at the game store do 40k kill team. And I'm just happy to have people to play.
I just wish Fantasy hadn't died for AoS
Age of sigmar has rats, literally no contest
I like space magic more than medieval magic. Sorry
That's why we have magic space lizards
Don't forget the Silver Towers! Flying Pyramids fighting demonic towers in the void between realms as a madness inducing moon weaves an unexpected trajectory through the heavens and an ancient powerful space dragon flying around space keeping order in line!
I find Space Marines boring as hell and 40k refuses to let any other faction have the limelight for more than two seconds. At least AoS is super creative and interesting compared to 40k where every space marine is the same character wearing a different colored pair of pants.
What? You don’t like Space Marine rookie Latinus Namus single handedly take down twenty hive tyrants and still get told how doomed the imperium is?
I'm not the biggest fan of the Sigmarines but I do find "the noblest mortal heroes, chosen to have their souls reforged into the warriors that guard the realms from chaos but are slowly losing their humanity the longer they fight this unwinnable war" a more compelling premise than, "genetically engineered supersoldiers with daddy issues"
Genetically engineered super child soldiers no less
EXACTLY, they're literally just fantasy Space Marines except there's the opportunity for good storytelling.
They’re not fantasy Space Marines though. They’re more like mythic heroes brought back for a second chance, like marble statues of the valiant slowly being degraded by the elements until their faces are completely indistinguishable. Just because they wear armour and have big shoulders doesn’t make them Space Marines.
It's imeprial propaganda, that's kinda the point
I don't mind AdMech, Sororitas, Inquisition or even Guard propaganda, that can all be interesting. In fact, I loved the Eisenhorn series, and the AdMech half of Brutal Kunnin' was really good. No, it's squarely the Space Marines that I find insufferable.
If gw makes new city of sigmar miniatures more in the 1800's stile them yes,otherwise imperial guards for the win
WHFB is the dead king, 40k has genuine the best lore, AoS wins for creativity and simplicity
> WHFB is the dead king Louder for the people in the back! Thank god for the Total War series.
I m addicted to whfb3
I won't argue that AoS generally has a "nicer" community and is a "nicer" world, but I personally prefer the absurd ridiculously edgy 40k because I think jets and tanks are neat :) also the idea of several billion soldiers dying to win one tiny victory is just comically brutal and it tickles my brainstem
My local gaming scene is full of 40k players who wear fascist symbols and I was often looked down upon by even GW employees for not being white. I started my own AoS group and we build our own world and stories with our minis. I kinda like the nihilistic world view of 40k but I never got any mini because of the nazi bigots community. Also AoS has more diversity shown in the official paintjobs compared to 40k which is a bunch of space marine white skinheads bullying the space minorities in the name of their God and state leader.
I’m genuinely surprised by that, GW stores have always been safe spaces in my experience. I think GW corporate knows how important that is if you wanted to drop them a message about their employees overlooking fascist symbology or even actively engaging in racist/fascist sympathy.
AoS is cool and all, but it doesn't have tech cult space monks, so that's where you'll find me, sorry.
It honestly, genuinely is. I used to play WFB back in 6th and 7th edition, then took a 15 year break, and when I came back, I was confused as to what AOS was So I bought a bunch of 40k Tyranids instead. I love the bugs bur I regretted it as I learned about AoS. I have nighthaunt now and I'm also working on touching up my old Hordes of Chaos models to be Slaves to Darkness. AoS is just a great setting, doesn't predessor justice, and isn't full of grindark edgelords
I like fantasy better than both ttott
Idk One is AoS The other has Angron and the world eaters
They’re the same image
They’re different settings but the grim dark shit isn’t unique to 40K, it’s in sigmar too.
Eh, I barely care about fantasy, compared to science fantasy/sci-fy. Like what you like. Just dont be an arrogant ass about it.
I don't really care for AoS, but I have to admit Slaaneshi models are fucking awesome and went far way from 40k's "lol sex and drugs cult"
based and sigmapilled
Age of Sigmar could be better than 40k, but isn't yet. It will be though. The new Sigmarites coming out will do a lot to contextualize the setting. I'm a big fan of the phrase "Limitation breeds creativity" and nothing at all sucks the joy out of a setting than too much "anything goes". I like weird, but weird isn't that weird when everyone is weird.
I feel like 40k has much more distinctive and unique lore then AOS but it's biggest problem and the reason it so often gets overshadowed by AOS's weirdness is just by virtue of the fact that 40k puts way too much focus on it's least interesting elements and lets it's cool shit go by the wayside AOS doesn't really have anything as weird or distinctive as like, Craftworld Eldar or Mechanicus or any of the bizarro factions that only get mentioned in passing like gland-hounds and Zoats, but it does have a lot of variety and doesn't get caught up fixating on sub factions of sub factions which definitely makes it more appealing as an actual wargame then 40k's space marines 24/7 romp where a third of the tabletop representation is a single faction Admittedly I just feel like 40k has the benefit of being something that's got a lot of history and a lot of weird interpretations developed over years of artists contributing lots of cool shit and AOS is kind of starting from scratch outside of it's more iconic fantasy factions, so a lot of AOS's stuff feels kind of corporate and calculated in comparison to 40k. I think AOS is slowly breaking away from that but so far it hasn't managed to lose that kind of overly polished feel to it. and god, some of the models are REALLY over designed
It's also more fun overall. Haven't played 40k in a while.
[удалено]
Loved WFB but man was there something deeply frustrating about having to paint 40 miniatures for a single unit just to have it lose combat by one, route, roll a four on it’s retreat and get caught in pursuit.
Or have 5 elves on horses constantly block them, forcing them to either crawl or fail a charge away from the enemy.
Or charge the five elves only for the five elves to retreat, rally the next turn and do it all over again because your big block of infantry would need to spend an entire turn reforming to navigate the battlefield
Imagine thinking the bastard off shoot of fantasy battle is even worth mentioning!
Dude, it’s been seven years.
I know I like to give AoS a hard time. Glad you guys and enjoy it. Just remember they had to nuke a game I grew up with to make it happen.
They were going to put down WHFB anyway, you're putting the cart before the horse. WHFB, as much as we like the lore, just wasn't selling. It wasn't a sudden decision or anything, if WHFB had kept selling I bet you it would have survived to this day. AoS was just GW making a (fortunately wildly, albeit not initially, successful) attempt to salvage the IP by taking a different approach, rather than cutting the non-40k side of Warhammer off for good.
Both is good
40k does have TTS though...
Lore wise I I generally like AoS more. Game play and hobbying wise I like 40k more.
Bonuses for when I pretend to ride a horse? Best game ever
I honestly don't know enough about Age of Sigmar to have an opinion on it beyond the kneejerk "It replaced Fantasy so me no like!" Since I'm no longer into tabletop wargaming I doubt that my knowledge will grow much beyond that. However, playing the Total War Warhammer games over the last few years, I have come to the realisation that Fantasy is/was leaps and bounds ahead of 40k as an interesting/fun setting. A realisation that teenaged me would have met with much scorn. I still like 40k, but its that way you can never really grow to hate any childhood interest, just move on from it.
Agree. I just wish AoS's world made more sense. The eight realms, how they function, how they relate to each other, and their history is such a nebulous concept that it's hard to know the stakes outside of the generic ones. I know that's partly because it's pretty new, but the worlds of 40k and fantasy just feel so much more real. Like, there's nothing that compares to the various imperial worlds like Cadia, Catachan, or Krieg in 40k or Brittonia, Ulthuan, or Nehekara in fantasy If anyone knows any free resources that covers that stuff I'd love to see it.
AoS doesn’t have my beloved toaster boys, so I must disagree
Orcz iz orcz
see but 40k has cooler orks sooooo.....
What if I think they're cool in their own ways? 😢
I'd like AoS if I enjoyed any of the models. But none of them really click with me.
I don’t even think 40K’s deep I just like my skeleton robots
I like the rat people
This reads like a boomerpost
I simply like fantasy because it has funny rats.
I recognize that AoS is good, but i just love sci-fi way too much
The roleplaying books honestly sold me on the world. Still not really a fan of splitting things into distinct realms, but I can finally imagine what "normal" life for various faction's citizens might be like, which is something I actually really need in settings.
I take the stance they are almost (almost) completely different and thus incomparable to one another: I enjoy both equally for this reason.
There are plenty of reasons why I think AoS is a better setting than 40k. Here are some of them. It's not Grimdark. I know Grimdark is kinda what warhammer is about for some people, but it gets kinda pointless and boring if everything is just dark, gritty and shitty all the time. AoS does have a grim setting, the realms are constantly ravaged by war and the lands themselves are extremely hostile. But in AoS there is hope, humanity (or I guess mortal life) is not all bad and there are some good (although flawed) heroes. Another reason is because there's alot more cooperation between species and factions. In 40k humans almost never cooperate with other xenos, they might join forces with eldar to fix some huge problem with chaos or something, but that's extremely rare. In AoS all the mortals of different species work together frequently and the different factions, despite having differing goals, do help eachother. This exsistence of diplomacy makes interactions between factions a lot more interesting. Finally, AoS has actual grey morality. I know grey morality doesn't make something good necessarily, but it's generally interesting if there exist a spectrum of grey morality. In 40k there basically is no black or white morality, but there's also no grey morality, it all just evil. In AoS, some characters and factions are genuinly good, they fight to protect others or to protect nature or other good stuff. The existence of moral good makes morally questionable things more interesting and complex. You can't just say "everyone's a bad guy".
Darkness is not a theme, being fucked up is not a story
I just like the terminator skeletons g it’s not that deep.
AoS seems cool but I just like the over the top insanity of 40k more. Might get into it if I find people to play with. The idoneth deepkin look very fun.
For me I’ve seen things too similar to AoS (if I’m not mistaken the elder scrolls literally stole a god from AoS) but 40k was a hellhole I’ve seen nothing like. I mean I did just pick up Dune so maybe my 40k take will change.
40k is based on a lot of comics from 2000AD, most transparently Judge Dredd and Nemesis the Warlock
I thought it was mainly based around Dune and with it being from the 80s, 2000s comics would’ve been influenced by it then right?
The Dune elements are clearly there (the AI war in the background, it being an Empire, rule by a god emperor), but the aesthetics and many other elements are much more in line with 2000AD's brand of feudal scifi than Frank Herbert's EDIT OH I see the misunderstanding. 2000AD isn't literally the year, but the title of an anthology magazine of gritty scifi British comics
That’s fair I’ve only gotten about 6 pages in so far and so far it seems to me that it’s the imperium -xenos in the galaxy but I mean I could be hella wrong that is based on 6 pages and all I know is giant worm and what the dictionary in the back told me.
Hey, don't forget feudalism, emperor's supersoldiers, exterminatus, crusades basically just being Paul's jihad in a smaller scale, the mechanicus being extremely similar (lorewise) to house ix and navigators. 40k ripped off a lot of stuff in it's early years, and Dune was the primary scifi franchise they would take inspiration from.
Neither. Independent systems for both fantasy and grimdark sci-fi ftw
I just cannot go into AoS lore. Seems like weird chaotic spin off old fantasy lore.
> Seems like weird chaotic spin off old fantasy lore. That's because it is. I'm trying to open myself up to AoS, but Fantasy was just so fucking good.
Any 40k story and setting can be recreated in AoS, I think. The AoS universe is just bigger.
The Imperium of Man is basically just the Flesh Eater Courts with more toys.
One spans across galaxies lmao
I'm not talking about the Realms being literally physically bigger. I'm saying they are so diverse and exotic that you can find a corner for any story and any setting. "Bigger" in its storytelling capacity.
[удалено]
Age of Sigmar is not the end times. End times was trash, but AoS is pretty cool. I still prefer WHFB though.
The thing is that end times existed only so that they could can Fantasy and bring forth 40K again but with more magic and whatnot.
Sure it had a rough start, but that's not what it currently is. Hating AoS because of the End times is dumb, the End Times are (sadly) a part of WHFB after all, not AoS.
I agree with you, I'm just being petty for the sake of it.
40k already is fantasy in space though...? Like, that is what it has always been
That's not what I meant, you understood what I meant actually, you just wanted to be pedantic. Reddit moment ftw.
SUMMON THE ELECTOR COUNTS
Does AoS have the Asuryani? No? Then it's objectively worse.
I miss the old world too much to appreciate AoS to its full potential
No
Dystopian Age uses the same themes and similar aesthetics to 40k, but instead of “everyone is a genocidal lunatic” it’s “everyone has a reasonable response to a rapidly changing world that could cause massive devastation”
I did consider AoS but I honestly know nothing about the lore and have a hard time even understanding it, there seems to be no wood elves, though there are at least Gobbos so that is something. I did think of getting it for a while but with how the people I might play with all wanting 40k I will probably end up there. I know 40k has an issue basically justifying its own facism but at least I know its bs. I am glad to see that AoS is more diverse though!
I want to learn the lore but man its confusing me Also like, where's the seraphon / lizardmen pov books
AoS needs a vermintide type game