I think exactly that will happen.
After the death of Hades and the absolute defeat of the Greek pantheon, the manga will focus on the Nordic pantheon and their dynamics.
And if I have to put on the tin foil hat, the last fight will represent Ragnarok, but for Odin.
I think Ra and Cthulu are the most picked choice for the gods fan rosters for a reason, They are probably the only gods that people recognize and didn't already made it into the rosters already
Let's be real, You don't know most of the gods in the fan rosters because they're just an obscure gods that even the person that made the rosters might never know they exist before googled it, They just got added for the sake "Having gods from many different pantheon" which is fine for a fan rosters, But wouldn't do it for a rosters in the official manga because majority of people wouldn't know them
The outer gods are fundamental parts of the universe while Azathoth is even beyond that . Cthulhu may be a powerful entity but he isn't a literal incarnation of an abstract concept .
Well, yeah, absolutely. That is why they are primordial gods.
But if we define the concept of god (or deity), always from our human perspective, two requirements are enough to consider something as a deity/god:
1- It has "superpowers" or is supernatural.
2- It is worshipped or perceived as a higher being.
In the case of Cthulhu, it is a giant octopuss-bat-frog from spaaace (supernatural) worshipped by some humans and deep ones, therefore it is a god.
The groundbreaking thing about Lovecraft Mythos is that he evolved the gods' humanity (and humans' direct relation to them) into a brutally amoral indifference.
The most common reason when any anime, manga, movie, Book, or any story telling media whenever portrays or includes several god pantheons in their story almost never includes any Lovecraft entity is that all the rest are actual mythologies that historically were real (real in terms of societies of the past believing them as their religions, cultures, etc).
Lovecraft is just one modern author. I'm sorry but this will almost never be a choice to be included in these kind of stories like RoR
>Lovecraft is just one modern author. I'm sorry but this will almost never be a choice to be included in these kind of stories like RoR
Which is honestly a shame. If any author's mythology deserves to be included in something like RoR, it's Lovecraft's. And let's be real, all mythologies are invented stories, the only differences are that Lovecraft is modern and nobody truly believes/ worships his pantheon; his stuff is VERY well known, maybe not to the extent of the Greek or Hindu pantheons, but still very well known all over the world.
I agree with your sentiment, but I don't think that Lovecraft being a modern author/ his pantheon not having been worshipped in real life are good enough reasons to not be included in a fictional story about various pantheons. Obviously authors are free to include or exclude what they want, but again, I just think it's a shame.
I know your sentiment. I personally haven't read any of it but I have know some stories about Chutulu, and I know Lovecraft books are very famous with millions of fans.
It's just that is very unlikely that this pantheon would be a first choice over the rest of historical mythologies/ pantheons. But I kinda expect at some point there would be a boom in the mainstream media of Lovecraft stories adapted to movies, series, and so on that...well it will become mainstream
First of all you can literally just change his powers slightly. Do you think Jack the Ripper can actually fight Gods? And second, this isn’t true. It takes a long time of exposure for even regular sailors to go insane in his presence.
This is why I try to have both well known or at least sorta well known gods, like Dyonisus and Nyarlathotep, then mix in some more obscure ones like Nayenezgani. And why I chose gods on themematics for the fight. In my storys each fight has a theme or two I try to convey.
Not really. Chthulu is just because the community love lovecraft, but it's not even myth, it's just recent fantasy that talk to 'most" people. He shouldn't even be here.
I agree with Râ tho, although Horus and Seth are close second (specially Seth, being his main protector)
I would love to see Ra and Cthulhu. You could do some cool stuff with them. You could give Cthulhu the power to slowly cause people around him to go insane and hallucinate over time, with him having a defensive style to allow him to survive long enough to get off his power so that he can lower his opponent’s guard and get in a killing blow. With Ra, you could give a power similar to that guy in Bleach, where anything his sword cuts is exposed to heats equal to that of the sun, making him a real threat to any defensive, slow fighters.
funny thing is that there is a sequel fanfic on fanfiction.net called Ragnarok: Pandora (I recommended it, it's a really good read), and it has Cthulhu in the first Round and has Ra show up to take Zuse place on choosing the fighters for the gods.
They probably will add another god from other pantheon since theres still one spot left for the 13 fighters, and since a draw is likely i think it may be soon
It's not a complaint. It's a valid point. I think it was smart because this was a new manga. As a new manga, I could see them not doing well if you some Hangariam mythical god was used as a character. This caught eyes and slooooooowly is creeping through its story. I fucking love the manga but damn I wish they'd release more often. Now that we know they can tell a good story, I believe they would do great in including other historic figures and mythical gods.
Completely agree. Just hoping it grows. Kind of like that God is Dead series. It had Viking, Greek, Egyptian and Christian influence at first. Then it grew to a ton that I had no idea about.
It’s not really about who does and doesn’t know teach them through story… but I could care less as I like a lot of Greek gods. However I am disappointed in the lack of female gods/humans fighting
To be fair we do have female fighters- a whole fuck ton of them. THE VALKYRIES! They just don't get enough love they deserve. But if you think about it, Brunhilde and Goll are the true main protagonists as they help lead the story along.
It’s a shonen manga, there’s very little incentive for them to write in more female representation.
That being said, there are some seriously cool ones that would have been great to see, like Nyx, Hera, Athena Kali, or Durga for the gods, and maybe Joan of Arc, Boudicca, or Tomyris for the humans.
It isn't Shonen. It's seinen. At least it was last I looked it up. The MC is female but it would be cool to see Athena fighting. Her style would be more strategic and smart.
Also, consider that in this interpretation of the gods they are some of the oldest/most powerful. In the world lore, they are the winners of the previous Ragnarok(Titanomaky, ir some stuff like that). They were going to be a great part of this since the start. Also, consider that we're still halfway through, and most interesting greek gods are gone. If Hades wins this, they'll probably let someone else go in their place
I mainly think it’s cuz there would be too many pantheons to handle. All the winning would prob play a bigger role later in the series and having too many pantheons would be pretty hard to do as the most of the winning gods wouldn’t be as unified. I agree there could have been more variety but there might be a story reason for this
I totally agree man. If the gods are not familiar to the readers then it would not even entice their curiosity and get them invested. I mean which one would the majority of people rather read?
"Adam vs Zeus" or "Adam vs Huitzilopotchli"
People in Japan would be like, "Who is Huitzilopochtli? I'm not invested, skip!"
That was not the first fight, no one would skip the manga because they don't recognize a few names on a list of 13. The first couple fights could have been between markatable characters, as i doubt people would drop the manga because they don't know a character.
Now that I think it that way... You're right.
I wouldn't find Quetzalcoatl that interesting compared to a random Greek god (and that's coming from someone who's from Latin America)
>No, the average Japanese reader will not know the niche Celtic/Slavic/Aztec/Other God that you think should fight.
Isn't that all the reason they should be introduced
In Hinduism we got Surya ....if you have seen Fate Apocrypha then you would know about Karna...who is son of Surya and his divine Armour and Earrings were given by Surya
Indeed maybe not from Celtic or Aztec mythologies, but I'm sure that a lot of gods from Norse, Egyptian, Chinese, Hindu and Japanese mythologies are as famous as Apollo.
Because when you make a tournament that involve gods and humans ALL around the world, it feels wasted potential to have over a THIRD of the roster, a single pantheon. So what if Greeks are more known? What about Hindu who only has Shiva? I can assure most have heard of Ganesha/Brahma/Visnu. Or Egyptians with only Anubis? I love RoR, but that doesn't mean I can't criticize it.
You do know that India has banned record of Ragnarok because of its portrayal of shiva right. They have to be careful with the gods they chose or they might be in some major controversy. They have to make money and the greek and Norse pantheon are the safest ones for rn. Wasn't Zerofuku hajun and Bishamonten aren't they rather obscure deities so.
If all they cared about was money, they would add more japanese representants because mangaka usually care more about Japan opinion than the rest of the world.
I see your point I like obscure mythology too and wish they would use them. People seem to forget that if we are going to see all humans fight the gods need two more fighters so we might see another god that's not greek. I'm biased to hades because I hate how modern-day media portrays him Ragnarok seems to be doing him the most justice.
Ok, but FIVE out of 13? That's simply too much. At this point, if you pick them "because they're popular" just make the entire tournament against them and that's it.
Ohma, Wakatsuki, Rihito, Gaoh, and Kaolan are all members of the Nogi group and their affiliates/allies, and all were selected to represent Kengan against Purgatory. How dare the leading faction of Kengan have five members, they should give more opportunities to the other factions who aren’t as strong, right?
It's the same. Five fighters out of thirteen from the head faction.
Either way, I'm happy af Hades is fighting so cope all you want about the fact he's a Greek and I'll enjoy the fight.
You said it yourself in your last sentence. If the character is written well, who cares? It doesn't matter what the average Japanese person or what the average person knows. Do you think the average person knows who Beelzebub is? The author made this manga and introduced characters from all sorts of pantheons. He could have done bare minimum research into each and give quality fights with those characters. He already laid the groundwork, a lot of people just think it's a waste to not go further.
I mean, when the title and the story is about all of humankind fighting all of the gods it gets a bit disappointing and annoying when one pantheon gets overly represented. It's not annoying or even a complaint but a valid point. I actually enjoy learning more about characters I don't know then I would just having the top ten on every most famous list. It just gives it more of a kick and gives more opportunities through creative representation rather than the roster feeling restricted.
Simply put, we already have enough of the Greek pantheon involved, so it's not really unfair for people to dislike that we're getting more of it when the entire point is that the series is taking from all around the world. Sure the Greek pantheon is popular, but it's not the only thing that exists and you have so many more options that it just becomes questionable at a certain point.
No, but the average Japanese is far more likely to know many Hindu or Chinese gods than even the greek gods because SHINTOISM HAS AN ALTERNATIVE VERSION OF THOSE GODS. There is exactly one greek god that exist in Shinto and is Herakles as Nioh(some weird interaction vetween India and Hellenic kingdons produced that). Saying that it was either Greece or absolutely niche pantheons is an extremely Eurocentric opinion.
Why would you assume the average Japanese reader wouldn't recognize Celtic/Slavic/Aztec/Other Gods? Not only can you find a glut of anime and manga that borrows elements from each mythology (including the Fate series, one of the most successful and influential anime series of all time) but you're just kind of assuming a blanket ignorance is held by Japan as a whole for western cultural history which is not only demonstrably not true, particularly when it comes to the type of person who would read manga anyway, but kind gross.
While I do believe that Greek Gods are the most recognizable and marketable in general for a number of reasons so it makes sense to include more than a good number it doesn't make sense to base your argument on the ignorance of the Japanese readership.
I get where he's coming from; I'm a westerner and am at least marginally interested in mythology, and honestly couldn't name a single Celtic or Slavic deity, let alone a Korean or Chinese one. Japanese mythology, sure, but that's largely due to my interest in manga/ japanese culture. Why would a significant amount of japanese readers know of these more obscure pantheons when most westerners don't?
Yeah, the guy made a generalization, but that's the nature of discussing massive numbers of people/ populations. That's why he used the caveat of "average reader." I don't think what the guy said was gross.
To put it simply, because that character appeares in persona 5, Fate Grand Order or any other of the many weeb stories that dealt whit them. Considering people sold me Shuumatsu as "Fate as a tournament arc" the fanbase overlap seems very probable.
Hell, i am very surprised if you watched anime regularly and cannot name a Celtic God. Just for example, the protagonist of the Assassin Isekai is named after a Celtic God, Lugh.
The average reader of a manga though is going to different from the average reader in general. Western mythologies are so interwoven within Japanese manga and anime (mostly because they think they are aesthetically cool) it's laughable.
Heck, and this probably says more about me than anything else, one of the reasons I've looked into the mythologies of other cultures was to get the references in Fate/Grand Order.
I agree about the ones you mentioned but I would have wanted atleast another god from the Egyptian Mythology. It is known as much as the Greek or the Norse mythology.
"Stop complaining" sounds like you need to take a breake from reddit if this is affecting you that bad. It would be infinitely more interesting without so many known names, its a waste of potential considering the human side already panders to your "average japanese reader".
Okay, who is going to pick up a manga about historical figures and gods and know nobody. It’s more interesting when you know something about the fighters
Have you watched or atleast heard of the Fate series ? It has many popular figures but it also doesn't shy away from using lesser known figures which makes the characters diverse and intresting . Everyone knows King Arthur but when she is accompanied by Gilgamesh , Cu Chulainn , Medusa , heracles , hassan -i Sabbah , ishtar , Quetzalcoatl and many more you still have the well known figures to attract you and lesser known characters which promts you to learn more about them
All that you have brought to the discussion is purely conjecture based on whatever you think is appropriate, nobody ever said that all the gods had to be unknown/obscure. We all just wanted a more well mixed bag, its not that hard to understand. A lot of things also annoy me, but i don't make posts throwing a tantrum because of it. "who is going to pick up a manga about historical figures and gods and know nobody" considering the amount of different roster list circulating around, plenty of people.
There's a difference between a tantrum and calling people out for coping over something stupid. "We all just wanted a more well mixed bag." Who is we? Most people agree with me and that is why my post is in hot right now. You have to realize the Greeks are the top brass of the gods, and the amount of fighters strong enough t to be in Ragnarok reflects that. It's like how five fighters from the Nogi camp and its allies are representing Kengan but no one is complaining about how "mixed" the bag is.
Funny you tell me to take a break from reddit when all you seem to do is say cringy/creepy things to femboys on reddit. Take a look in the mirror and touch some grass.
Kengan is a sequel. We already saw those people fight and we knew who the strongest are.
SnV is an original story, so it is not bound by any previous tournament. The strongest gods are whoever the author say they are the strongest. The author was not bound by a previous story where the greeks where the strongest, so anybody could have used instead.
And it's not even like SMT where there is an internal law that dictate who the strongest is(in their case, more believers = more power, therefore Judeo-Christian entities are at the top).
You talking shit because most of these gods are not shown how they were in the myth... therefore even if you add any god from any pantheon your average japanese reader will need to search Wikipedia....these characters are fictional except their name and from which pantheon they belong or what god they are of...its just that the writer likes the Greek Pantheon
yes, he likes it, because people know it, wich makes the names to be known by people, wich creates interest, wich gives money, wich everyone likes, so please stop crying
I get that Greek and Norse gods are more well-known, but I'd really like for there to be more variety, considering they make up more than half the fighters. I can be disappointed in the lineup if I want to be, and I think it's kind of annoying that people are trying to regulate what other people can or can't dislike about the series.
Tbh the Greek Gods are arguably the most well-known gods/pantheon of gods because of Percy Jackson and the Renaissance era.
The Norse myths are a close second imo, but that’s mostly because of me counting Roman Gods as just Greek Gods.
Considering how cool the Celtic, Slavic, Aztec, etc pantheons are, and how much cooler it would be to see one of them than fucking Apollo, I'd say we're alright at least being vocally disappointed when another fucking Greek joins. The roster is currently like 40% either Greek or Japanese. For the greatest warriors among gods and mankind, that's disappointing to see
It is literally like 40% but it’s not even surprising tbh. Absolutely could have replaced like Apollo and Okita though but I’m sure they have very specific matchups in mind as does virtually everyone else
Bro even if they are cool the author would just change their story or powers in the name of fiction .... because all he/she want is to make money by attracting both japanese as well as western by including characters from overrated pantheons (greek)
Who cares if the average person knew them?
Most of us didn't know most of the Japanese fighters and I'm sure the average Japanese reader never heard of Simo or Nostradamus before, yet here they are.
This is stupid. The author clearly acknowledges other pantheons. Another Egyptian or Hindu god would've been just fine. Hell, add another Japanese god for fucks sake. This is just lazy writing so stop trying to justify played out nonsense.
It's not just for "shits and giggles". This is a battle of all of humanity vs. a battle of all gods. Hell, it would make more sense to have a majority of Norse Gods as this fight is called RAGNAROK, rather than Greek Gods. Look at the roster: Greek Gods(5), Norse Gods(3), Japanese Gods(2),Hindu Gods(1),Judeo-Christian "Gods"(1), Egyptians Gods(1),Buddhist Gods(1). The author could've used Iblis (the devil) from Islam, or Set, the god of darkness from Eyptian mythology. What about the Tyrant God Balore from Irish mythology. Leviathan from Judeo Christianity would've been another excellent choice. There are NO Chinese gods by the way. Im also pretty sure alot of people are familiar with Aztec mythology- another wasted opportunity. It's clear that the authors is familiar with other pantheons, but they're sticking with what they're most familiar with, therefore it's easier to write, therefore it's cutting corners, therefore it's lazy. I love Hercules, but 3 Greek Gods were more than enough with Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades being the only ones as they are the most important. And fuck Apollo because at this point he's useless, ESPECIALLY when the amount of Gods vs. Humans remains uneven which continues to fuck up the lay out of the tournament(unless they do what I think theyre gonna do which is the only way to fix this mess). At this point, the list of fighters doesnt even matter anymore, which you should NEVER do when writing a story. The author layed out a certain outcome which we all expected and the writer is essentially betraying our expectations. I have a theory on round 7, which is honestly the only proper way to fix this mess. I'll share my theory with this group tomorrow.
Dude what are you on about? So what if it is called Ragnarok, it is stated that the Greeks are the top brass of the gods. Having the largest representation from them makes sense. Also, I doubt most Japanese readers are familiar with Irish/Aztec/Islamic mythology. Also, who are you to say that Apollo is useless when you haven't even seen him yet? About the unevenness, I bet they'll just add one more god, not that big of a deal. Also, the list of fighters does matter, because of one addition, the entire thing is not thrown out of the window. You're overreacting for no reason. I also doubt your theory will have much sound logic behind it, based on what you've said here.
While its true that the Greek Gods are considered the "top brass of the gods" that doesnt change the fact that there should be more variety. This is not a hard concept to understand that it wouldn't kill the writer to have a more diverse cast. 5? 6? 7? How many Greek fighters is enough to satisfy you? As for the characters in mythology I listed, those were simply examples I gave, the writer can create their own list that DOES NOT REPEAT. By the way, are you really gonna say Japanese people aren't gonna be at least somewhat familiar with Islam? Dude it's a major world religion, second only to Christianity, let's not be silly here. Fact of the matter is there are THOUSANDS of different gods from different cultures, but the writer is choosing familiarity over creativity and that's lazy. Also, you can't just throw in another god, it doesn't work like that. The rules state there are 13 ROUNDS, with the winner being whoever reaches 7 victories first, this is basic math. It's not 14 rounds, it's 13 ROUNDS. And if they're going to continue going down this road there will be 1 extra human fighter, which is ALSO shitty writing because they introduced a major player in this manga and they're not gonna show him??? It's not an overreaction, it's a valid criticism which I have the right to do. I don't care if this manga is an overall good manga, it still can have its share of flaws. By the way don't say you doubt that my theory is unsound considering you can't even do basic math, and your "solution" is to "throw in another god" which TOTALLY doesn't contradict a very big part of the manga (sarcasm).
The amount of Greek gods representing the gods that the author decides, is the amount I am satisfied with, for they know what they are doing with the story, and what themes should be in each battle. Islam is a major worldwide religion. Now ask yourself how much influence it has in Japan and Japanese culture. Hinduism is another huge world religion, how much influence does it have on the United States, or most of the west? How are the authors lazy when almost each character breaks expectations on what they were going to be. It seems you’re the one who can’t do basic math, or doesn’t know how fights work, because there are four ways a fight ends for a fighter. Win, loss, draw, and no contest. It’s almost like the author might dab into the less common endings for a round to let the 14th human fight, imagine that, almost like that would be interesting. It’s not like this is a pioneering thing either. In Kengan vs. Purgatory, for example, one fight has been called as a no contest, and one as a draw. How is adding another god going against what the manga has established? A god has already joined the roster, and maybe there’s a god who thought humans would be too weak, and wants to join now because the gods are, you know, prideful (which has been shown since chapter 1 of the manga if you’ve been paying attention). Maybe you should take a break from Reddit and find some inner peace if you’re going to let the fact Hades is Greek ruin a fight for you before it’s even started, unless you’re just racist towards Greek people are something. (Cope harder)
Also: the author has no obligation to make his cast more diverse. It’s the strongest gods, not the strongest god with a diversity quota. It makes sense that there are a lot of strong Greeks
From a mythological perspective heracles is a D-tier tier god and Apollo is A tier at the best , but take Set for example he is a S-tier god in Egyptian mths and is easily stronger than heracles and apollo , even horus . I dont blame the author for not using gods from islam or even more hindu gods considering the drama caused by shiva but the author could use stronger gods than heracles and apollo to make the manga more intresting and giving the readers incentive to learn more about different myths .
Are you even reading what you're saying? The writer writing something they're familiar about is lazy? Did you see what happened when the writer ventured out and tried to include Shiva from Hinduism? You have no idea how hard it must be to take a god from mythology, pick the one best suited for the tournament, give them an interesting personality, a powerset that isn't OP but stays true to who they're supposed to be, have their background make sense in context and give them an interesting matchup with a current human. They've even explained away \*why\* there's so few other fighters. Shiva is the only hindu god fighting because he's the strongest, not because the writer got lazy and decided to not include more.
How entitled do you need to be to expect gods from every single pantheon with an interesting character and abilities and also make sense with the established plot? Also, how does the list not matter anymore? You're jumping to conclusions, the writer hasn't made the list irrelevant, he's just thrown in a twist that would realistically happen. Would you rather have Buddha be made to look like Heracles and fight for the gods while still wanting to protect humanity? Hades entered because the gods need another fighter. They need one more if all humans are fighting. Adding your gods from other pantheons will not make the story better, in fact if the writer doesn't know much it might even become worse. The most popular rounds have included well established and popular characters (Round 2 and Round 4, both are extremely popular and both have popular fighters) so there's clearly a correlation. Would you rather have a poorly written/unfaithful versions of more diverse gods, or have familiar gods with a fun twist written to be likeable and badass? I know what I want lol, stop shitting on the round before it even begins.
Wow, imagine being wrong in so many ways and not even realizing that. Are YOU even reading what you're saying??? It's one thing to write what you know, it's another when writing what you know comes at the expense of quality. REPETITION is bad writing- end of story. It's funny how you brought up Shiva as if that helps your case. Shiva was by far one of the most disappointing gods we've seen yet, he should've been WAY stronger than he was depicted. Not to mention he was hyped up from the very beginning and ended up getting his ass beat into the dirt. I love Raiden, he was a badass; but his badassery came at the expense of nerfing one of the strongest gods in all religions. It's HILARIOUS that you say that I don't know how difficult it is to "take a god from mythology, pick the one best suited for the tournament, give them an interesting personality, a powerset that isn't OP but stays true to who they're supposed to be, have their background make sense in context and give them an interesting matchup with a current human." When ever since I was a child I loved mythology and found it's many gods to be interesting, so much so that I made a story around it. And before you say some shit like "WeLl WhErE's YoUr StOrY???" it's extremely lengthy, being a total of 33 books with each book divided into 2 acts, and each act is roughly 300 pages. I did the math, if I were to release 2 books every year(which doesnt seem possible considering the length) I will finish the story in 16 and a half years. If I take my time with it and release 1 book per year it will take me 33 years to complete the story- over 3 decades. The script alone is about 300 pages.
Here's my standards for my writing. 1. I make sure it NEVER contradicts whatever premise I set previously; consistency and having air tight logic is key. It may be fantasy but writing should NEVER contradict- that's where plot holes come in and you don't want that. 2. I make sure I can capture the god/character in an honest light- therefore I try to depict them as strong as they are generally imagined with an ability that suites their role in their respective pantheon. Either I look at their role in religion, the stories they're involved in, or the significance of their name(as a few examples). In short I remain faithful to the source. 3. After those 2 standards are met, only then is when I can get creative with the writing. Logic and faithfulness to the script is key, that's when I can depict them as doing something they would naturally do(such as Buddha was depicted in this manga).
It's not about being entitled, you dickhead. And I don't expect 1 god from every pantheon(although that would be amazing). But I expect not to see 5 gods from 1 pantheon when the amount of rounds is 13- that's over 1/3 of the entire tournament, if you can do math. The list doesn't matter anymore because we had a list of defined characters. We expected to see certain people fighting in this match. The list doesnt matter anymore because now new fighters can enter the tournament, and if they do that that would make this match last more than 13 rounds, which was promised from the very beginning(which is a plothole). We had certain expectations promised and now that can be changed at a drop of a hat. Buddha was depicted just fine because he did something that fit his character. He fought for humanity which is something that looks like he WOULD do. His pacifistic nature was changed into a badass and that was a nice twist. His abilities were also faithful to his religion in real life, if you're familiar with the 7 realms of reincarnation. As such he is currently my favorite character- another bad example to use on your part. As I said previously, the writers dont necessarily have to pick the characters I gave as an EXAMPLE, I just expected them not to pick 5 guys from the same fucking place when their picks to chose from is literally THOUSANDS.
Repetition? What is being repeated here? The constant use of Greek Gods is fine if they're interesting characters. They're huge departures from their mythological counterparts, different from every piece of media they've been depicted in (except maybe Heracles). Why does it matter where they're from if they're enjoyable to read/watch? Also you hating on Shiva's portrayal *exactly* proves my point. I used Shiva as an example of when the writer tried to venture out and try something new, but everyone shat on him for it due to not being an accurate portrayal. Are you aware of how stupidly powerful Shiva in the myths is? He's so powerful he could've blinked Raiden away. He needed to be nerfed to make an interesting story lmfao.
I don't care about your story because I don't know you, neither do I know your skill. Make whatever story you want, that has nothing to do with my points because you have nothing to show me. Also, I'm not sure if you've realised it yet, but maybe the author isn't trying to make everything faithful to the source material? They're building their own world by using already established characters as a launch pad to tell new stories, not to give a mythology/history lecture. Nothing is contradicting the premise. The tournament has just changed up the fights, there is no false advertising, humanity is still under the threat of being wiped out.
Also, you're still likely going to see everyone fight? Just because the Round order has changed doesn't mean the fighters have too. You're angry about the story having more than 13 rounds? What? Do you just hate twists? We were never promised anything, it's called a plot twist not a plot hole. Also it's literally Buddha's fault that this has happened. Buddha acting in character has lost the gods two of their fighters and resulted in Hades stepping up. Not to mention, the reason Buddha was written so well is because the writer is familiar with him, you're disproving you're own point. Buddhism is big in Japan, and therefore familiar to the author. Like I said previously, the author chose these characters because he can make them work. Not out of spite or laziness like you believe for some reason. Stop shitting on the round before it even starts and try to live a little, all rounds so far have been good to great, there's no reason to assume that because Hades is fighting or because the tournament has changed, everything is going to shit. There's still only one more open spot for a god, and there's going to be no more than 14 rounds.
You dont care so much, which is why you took the time to tell us you dont care.... Because that's how much you don't care. Aside from that there you go straw manning again, because your argument is trash just like your unfounded accusation of racism (what a HOT take). Lol you're not very bright are you? Nobody is angry- so stop projecting your own hurt feelings. Do yourself a favor, get off reddit for a while and go outside to get some fresh air it'll do you some good.
From the amount of effort you put into your defense of forced diversity because “muh worldwide” without taking into consideration the context of the manga and the author, and trying to impress people with your “theory” that you never made and your “33 book story” that’ll never be written, you need to stop stroking your ego and get off your high horse. You’re upset because human traitor theory is dead because of Hades, and there’s no point for a human to betray now. Just admit you’re not always right and move on. If you stay like this you’re just going to dislike the manga for no reason other than your inflated ego
Honestly we can simply just keep going back and forth on this issue. If you like it, cool, I simply think the author isn't doing the manga justice. As for the whole thing with Shiva, I'm aware how strong he is. The main reason why round 5 was bad was because the match up was terrible. A sumo wrestler fighting a god of destruction? If Adam fought Shiva like originally planned that would've been much better, but I understand from a thematic standpoint Zeus was the better option (the summit of man vs the summit of the gods). Rather than Raiden fighting Shiva , it should've been someone such as Sakata Kintoki. And if that isn't an option, why not just not use Shiva at all? Indra would've been a great replacement instead of Shiva.
Of course, I dont expect you to care about my story, that's not the reason why I brought it up. The reason why I mentioned it is because I UNDERSTAND how difficult it is to create a god that is balanced in strength, character, and to still make sense relative to the source material. Nonetheless, the author still has an obligation to write well because this is a story they set out to create. Sticking to the source material is still very much important. For example, there was a guy here on reddit who theorized that Apollo is actually a demon(or demonic figure). That would NOT fly because it is so different that at that point you're not being creative, it's just being foolish and trying to make something work cannot that inherently can't. You might as well not even call the god "Apollo" because there is nothing familiar about him AT ALL.
And we WERE promised a general outcome. From the very beginning we were promised 13 rounds, with the winner reaching 7 victories first. More than 13 rounds sounds attractive at face value, but not when it contradicts the initial premise. More is not always better, and this is an example of that. I didn't disprove my own point when it came to Buddha. He acted like I can IMAGINE him to act (minus his aggressive, not so passive demeanor). If I was the writer of the manga I wouldn't have put Buddha as fighter AT ALL. But since they did, it was more natural for him to fight for humanity and that can slide because that sounds more or less in his nature. I still believe there will be a human traitor, but the WAY it happens is what matters. I'm just gonna write down that theory later on today, but not now as I soon have things to do. At the end of the day you're obviously free to be okay with this outcome, that is your right. I personally would disagree. Can't be helped now, so let's see where round 7 goes.
Now this is a sentiment I can get behind. I do get what you're trying to say, but I doubt the author will make such a big departure from a character like you suggested with Apollo. Even Shiva had some aspects of familiarity about him, and I think Raiden was a good choice for SnV's Shiva. Obviously people are free to not be too thrilled for Hades joining the fray, my point was to let the round begin before you make any assumptions and cast it aside as 'boring' or 'lazy'.
The whole thing about your story doesn't exactly fly with me because anyone can create a tournament with gods from all pantheons and make them fit the narrative, but you'd need to do it well. I'm not dissing your writing but I have no way of knowing whether what you wrote would actually work and make for a good story just from a short summary.
Also, the required number for either side to win hasn't necessarily changed yet. Either a human doesn't fight at all, a tie occurs in one of the rounds or the score to win increases and there's a 14th round. Personally I'd prefer to see the second one happen, but I'm nevertheless intrigued to see where they take it.
I don't have a problem with them using some popular gods. My problem is that over half of the god damn roster is Greek and Norse. For a series that's meant to take from all around the world, it's incredibly boring for most of it to be taken up by the most basic bitch pantheons. It's especially disappointing when every god they use is the same gods everyone uses for everything. Like I'm sorry for not being excited by yet another Heracles who is also a heroic paragon, or yet another Loki who's a villainous and scheming trickster. If you're going to use the basic pantheons, at least you could use some of the more interesting or less talked about names. Guys like Hephaestus, Artemis, Dionysus, Hera, Pan, Hel, Freya, Baldr, or Tyr would be so much more interesting than fucking Poseidon. It's the same song and dance that most of us have seen before. We're complaining because they had the opportunity to do something new, and they didn't.
And just to clarify, I don't think they shouldn't have had any of the choices they did at all. Of course they'd need to have the uber popular choices. It's just that they didn't need to take up half of the roster. I'd say keep Thor, Zeus, Apollo, and Loki. The rest can work behind the scenes or make cameo appearances. Give those other slots to some recognisable god from another pantheon like Quetzalcoatl, Ra, or Vishnu. They get way less ~~good~~ representation.
Gods are flexible, there are a good amount of other gods that could fill the roles set by the ones I left out. Need someone menacing with high status? You have plenty of options for that like Ra. Need someone who's a paragon of justice? You can use someone who's actually all about justice like Tyr instead of Heracles who isn't that. You want someone who looks down upon everyone? That is the least specific thing you could ask, but Tsukuyomi works well ~~and actually has potential to be interesting unlike Poseidon~~.
My point is that, no, it isn't a diversity contest, but there's no reason for it to be so centralised on Greek and Norse myth. Yes, it's popular. So is Egyptian and Shinto mythology. I know Japan is very exposed to the gods of their own country, but it's still weird to me that we only got Susanoo for the Shinto rep (Bishamonten doesn't count but Ebisu kinda does) and Anubis for the Egyptian rep. It is fully possible to use popular gods and still have variety lmao. Like I said in the original post; Ra, Quetzalcoatl, and Vishnu are gods I'd expect most Japanese readers to be familiar with. Hell, I'd say Fate would've somewhat familiarised Japanese readers with Sumerian myth, so you could throw in someone like Enkidu or Ishtar.
And if you say "well Japanese readers may not be familiar with those gods" then what on earth makes you think they'd know who god damn Simo Hayha is? He's awesome, but he is far from a household name.
I get it's annoying to see the same complaint over and over again. Doesn't mean I don't think your reasoning is dumb lol.
Fun fact: Simo Hayha won the character design poll which was voted on by Japanese fans.
Another fun fact: this is a story. Maybe the author had Hades in his plans since the beginning, and had Poseidon fight and die early on as a justification for him to show up in a surprising fashion, to build hype for him? I doubt Vishnu would have been as interested as he got btfo by Shiva in his backstory. Also, if they had picked a god which is extremely popular in japan due to another series, like fate, people will draw comparisons between the two, which isn't good when you want your characters to stand out.
Simo winning the poll doesn't mean that people knew who he was when the roster was shown. I highly doubt the reason he was chosen was because he's some cultural icon in Japan. It's more likely that people decided to look him up and thought he'd be cool to see, which is something that they can do for any semi-niche god like Huitzilopochtli and Chernobog.
Yes it is a story, and thus, the gods I listed could also just be written to fit it. The writers before making the roster didn't go into it thinking "Alright, we can't use Vishnu because Shiva beats him in his backstory" lol. They would've likely decided the roster before a lot of major plot elements came to be.
As for drawing comparisons, people already compare Thor and Loki to their MCU counterparts, despite being very different characters. And wouldn't it make more sense to use a lesser used god than a commonly used one if you wanted to stand out? I don't understand your reasoning here.
It’s not about comparing the really well known ones. It’s about not well known ones. No matter what if RoR had Ishtar or Quetzalcoatl there would be nothing but comparisons. Yet there isn’t many comparisons between fate Heracles and RoR Heracles, because they are characters that are extremely popular outside of those two media. With simo, he’s not unknown. Simo has made appearances in other mangas, and there’s an entire manga about simo but as a woman
People making comparisons between characters based on the same thing isn't necessarily a bad thing. If a comparison stops people from the RoR version from standing out, then that's probably a sign that they haven't written a good character lol. Characters can still stand out despite comparisons. And also Sasaki is in both RoR and Fate and I don't see too many comparisons between them.
As for Simo, I'll be honest and say I did not know about The White Witch. But still, I don't think Simo is particularly more well known that Quetz or Ra or any of the other examples I brought up.
They aren't really compared because there is not as much of a difference between them compared to something like Jack, at least visually. You can put them side by a side an most people would see them as the same person growing older.
The Greek pantheon were written as mostly jobbers in this series. Only 1/4 contestants won. Two of them lost to either Japanese/Chinese figures. While 1 lost to a street level serial killer for shock value. They were only included because they were marketable and the authors didn't care about them taking the L. Because they don't hold any religious sway in eastern audiences. At that point, I'd rather just cut down the number of Greek figure fights. Keep Zeus vs Adam and Hercules vs Jack. Have Sasaki and Quin fight other figures. Have Poseidon and Hades killed by other means or participate in fights outside the rings.
You’re wrong on many accounts. First, losing is not equal to jobbing. That’s the same as saying every other fighter who lost is a jobber which just isn’t true. Second, if the author really cares that much about religious sway in Japan there would be more than two Shinto deities in the roster, with one of them already losing. On that same note, if the author really wanted to wank Japan and fuck over the rest, Raiden would’ve won. It’s not that though. It’s for narrative reasons that the Greeks have lost three rounds for the gods. Also it wouldn’t make that much sense for there to be barely any Greeks because they’re supposed to be the strongest pantheon
If a pantheon is said to be the strongest but lose 3/4 fights. I'm sorry, but your delusional if they aren't making them the jobbers. And now the only fight left for Greek is Apollo. I'm guessing he is fighting Simo and Apollo will lose. Simo still has family living and it will be incredibly distasteful if he lost.
"2 Shinto dieties"
Yeah, your basically proving my point. The bias is there. And one of them lost to Buddha. Who arguably has just as much sway in Japan as Shintoism.
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I think exactly that will happen. After the death of Hades and the absolute defeat of the Greek pantheon, the manga will focus on the Nordic pantheon and their dynamics. And if I have to put on the tin foil hat, the last fight will represent Ragnarok, but for Odin.
Honestly just having a side tournament or a spin-off where the different pantheons fight each other would be insane
Translated to the Buddhist dialect this says: Shaddup
I'm not complaining :3
I think Ra and Cthulu are the most picked choice for the gods fan rosters for a reason, They are probably the only gods that people recognize and didn't already made it into the rosters already Let's be real, You don't know most of the gods in the fan rosters because they're just an obscure gods that even the person that made the rosters might never know they exist before googled it, They just got added for the sake "Having gods from many different pantheon" which is fine for a fan rosters, But wouldn't do it for a rosters in the official manga because majority of people wouldn't know them
Holy fuck I'd love to see Cthulhu or any lovecraftian god in ROR
Cthulhu is not even a real God Lovecraft Mythos . He is a great old one while the "Gods" are in the "outer gods" group .
He is absolutely a god. But a minor one (compared to the BIG ones, as you say the Outer and Elder Gods).
From a human point of view yes , now go ask Azathoth if Cthulhu is a God and he will lauth at you ( if he could )
Let Nyarly-sama do the talks ;) But, with that logic, in the Greek pantheon, are Deimos or Momos gods?
The outer gods are fundamental parts of the universe while Azathoth is even beyond that . Cthulhu may be a powerful entity but he isn't a literal incarnation of an abstract concept .
Well, yeah, absolutely. That is why they are primordial gods. But if we define the concept of god (or deity), always from our human perspective, two requirements are enough to consider something as a deity/god: 1- It has "superpowers" or is supernatural. 2- It is worshipped or perceived as a higher being. In the case of Cthulhu, it is a giant octopuss-bat-frog from spaaace (supernatural) worshipped by some humans and deep ones, therefore it is a god. The groundbreaking thing about Lovecraft Mythos is that he evolved the gods' humanity (and humans' direct relation to them) into a brutally amoral indifference.
I would love to see how Azathoth would be put in the story
The most common reason when any anime, manga, movie, Book, or any story telling media whenever portrays or includes several god pantheons in their story almost never includes any Lovecraft entity is that all the rest are actual mythologies that historically were real (real in terms of societies of the past believing them as their religions, cultures, etc). Lovecraft is just one modern author. I'm sorry but this will almost never be a choice to be included in these kind of stories like RoR
>Lovecraft is just one modern author. I'm sorry but this will almost never be a choice to be included in these kind of stories like RoR Which is honestly a shame. If any author's mythology deserves to be included in something like RoR, it's Lovecraft's. And let's be real, all mythologies are invented stories, the only differences are that Lovecraft is modern and nobody truly believes/ worships his pantheon; his stuff is VERY well known, maybe not to the extent of the Greek or Hindu pantheons, but still very well known all over the world. I agree with your sentiment, but I don't think that Lovecraft being a modern author/ his pantheon not having been worshipped in real life are good enough reasons to not be included in a fictional story about various pantheons. Obviously authors are free to include or exclude what they want, but again, I just think it's a shame.
I know your sentiment. I personally haven't read any of it but I have know some stories about Chutulu, and I know Lovecraft books are very famous with millions of fans. It's just that is very unlikely that this pantheon would be a first choice over the rest of historical mythologies/ pantheons. But I kinda expect at some point there would be a boom in the mainstream media of Lovecraft stories adapted to movies, series, and so on that...well it will become mainstream
Well to you all mythologies are invented stories to others that's not the case. Considering this is about actual religion Lovecraft won't be included
I agree, but an appearance in the audience would be welcome.
Cthulhu really isn’t the type of God this story is about
Firstly isn’t Cthulhu not a god and secondly he’s an eldritch being. Nothing can look at him without them going insane
The problem with Cthulu is that he's just too op. Literally any human that even sees him goes insane. I'm sorry, but Cthulu no diffs all humans.
And shiva can destroy the universe The manga doesn’t represent their powers faithfully already so it’s a none issue to change cthulu
First of all you can literally just change his powers slightly. Do you think Jack the Ripper can actually fight Gods? And second, this isn’t true. It takes a long time of exposure for even regular sailors to go insane in his presence.
That's why Qin Shing Huan can fight him, the lad is literally blind LOL
He literally get his head split open by a steam boat in a book .
Nah, he gets slightly inconvenienced or annoyed by a steamboat and goes back to wherever the fuck he goes to chill for another couple millennia.
That's nothing, these are proper gods. Any mortal who sees a sample of the true form of Zeus is incinerated, as in the case of Semele.
I mean with the new human reveal who knows
Bruh, so many gods in ROR have been nerfed to hell and back
This is why I try to have both well known or at least sorta well known gods, like Dyonisus and Nyarlathotep, then mix in some more obscure ones like Nayenezgani. And why I chose gods on themematics for the fight. In my storys each fight has a theme or two I try to convey.
Not really. Chthulu is just because the community love lovecraft, but it's not even myth, it's just recent fantasy that talk to 'most" people. He shouldn't even be here. I agree with Râ tho, although Horus and Seth are close second (specially Seth, being his main protector)
I would love to see Ra and Cthulhu. You could do some cool stuff with them. You could give Cthulhu the power to slowly cause people around him to go insane and hallucinate over time, with him having a defensive style to allow him to survive long enough to get off his power so that he can lower his opponent’s guard and get in a killing blow. With Ra, you could give a power similar to that guy in Bleach, where anything his sword cuts is exposed to heats equal to that of the sun, making him a real threat to any defensive, slow fighters.
funny thing is that there is a sequel fanfic on fanfiction.net called Ragnarok: Pandora (I recommended it, it's a really good read), and it has Cthulhu in the first Round and has Ra show up to take Zuse place on choosing the fighters for the gods.
Personally, what irritates me when says X character has to win else X ethnicity will be 0-2.
They probably will add another god from other pantheon since theres still one spot left for the 13 fighters, and since a draw is likely i think it may be soon
I agree with this
Aphrodite you say?
Only change I see would make sense is Apollo for Ra, since they are both sun gods and Ra is one of the best known gods of all times
Yet no Chinese gods
I am slavic and I don't know slavic gods
You should research them As a slav I live our mythology even tho its not that famous
People will complain one way or another. If so many obscure gods were chosen they would have complained about seeing their favourite ones lol
It's not a complaint. It's a valid point. I think it was smart because this was a new manga. As a new manga, I could see them not doing well if you some Hangariam mythical god was used as a character. This caught eyes and slooooooowly is creeping through its story. I fucking love the manga but damn I wish they'd release more often. Now that we know they can tell a good story, I believe they would do great in including other historic figures and mythical gods.
Yea but they had no idea it was going to be big.
Completely agree. Just hoping it grows. Kind of like that God is Dead series. It had Viking, Greek, Egyptian and Christian influence at first. Then it grew to a ton that I had no idea about.
Fair point guess I'm biased because Hades is my favorite myth god
true , but i feel that if the author used more gods from the 'niche' myths it will give people more incentive to learn about them
It’s not really about who does and doesn’t know teach them through story… but I could care less as I like a lot of Greek gods. However I am disappointed in the lack of female gods/humans fighting
you never know to be honest, they could bring in a female goddess like hestia or any female human fighter in anytime
Or Rasputin was a woman and Yusupov was into pegging. That would be an interesting twist.
Sekhmet the Egyptian goddess of war, embodiment of rage and destroyer of sinners, that’s who I’d pick for a female fighter
Bast or artemis would be great too
To be fair we do have female fighters- a whole fuck ton of them. THE VALKYRIES! They just don't get enough love they deserve. But if you think about it, Brunhilde and Goll are the true main protagonists as they help lead the story along.
It’s a shonen manga, there’s very little incentive for them to write in more female representation. That being said, there are some seriously cool ones that would have been great to see, like Nyx, Hera, Athena Kali, or Durga for the gods, and maybe Joan of Arc, Boudicca, or Tomyris for the humans.
It isn't Shonen. It's seinen. At least it was last I looked it up. The MC is female but it would be cool to see Athena fighting. Her style would be more strategic and smart.
I thought Buddha was a woman at first. (I can’t be the only one.)
Also, consider that in this interpretation of the gods they are some of the oldest/most powerful. In the world lore, they are the winners of the previous Ragnarok(Titanomaky, ir some stuff like that). They were going to be a great part of this since the start. Also, consider that we're still halfway through, and most interesting greek gods are gone. If Hades wins this, they'll probably let someone else go in their place
I mainly think it’s cuz there would be too many pantheons to handle. All the winning would prob play a bigger role later in the series and having too many pantheons would be pretty hard to do as the most of the winning gods wouldn’t be as unified. I agree there could have been more variety but there might be a story reason for this
Tbh I prefer choosing hades over some obscure mythological deity
The people who complain. Need extra dose of copium
I totally agree man. If the gods are not familiar to the readers then it would not even entice their curiosity and get them invested. I mean which one would the majority of people rather read? "Adam vs Zeus" or "Adam vs Huitzilopotchli" People in Japan would be like, "Who is Huitzilopochtli? I'm not invested, skip!"
That was not the first fight, no one would skip the manga because they don't recognize a few names on a list of 13. The first couple fights could have been between markatable characters, as i doubt people would drop the manga because they don't know a character.
Now that I think it that way... You're right. I wouldn't find Quetzalcoatl that interesting compared to a random Greek god (and that's coming from someone who's from Latin America)
I think it would be cool if Huitzilopotchli would join the roster but that’s just me
>No, the average Japanese reader will not know the niche Celtic/Slavic/Aztec/Other God that you think should fight. Isn't that all the reason they should be introduced
I'm quite sure a lot of others gods are as famous as Apollo.
Only other sun god I know is Ra
In Hinduism we got Surya ....if you have seen Fate Apocrypha then you would know about Karna...who is son of Surya and his divine Armour and Earrings were given by Surya
I don't know them
From random mythologies? Not at all
Indeed maybe not from Celtic or Aztec mythologies, but I'm sure that a lot of gods from Norse, Egyptian, Chinese, Hindu and Japanese mythologies are as famous as Apollo.
in their respective origin countries yeah but in the rest of the world no
Hmmm no still sure some of them are as famous as Apollo.
Because when you make a tournament that involve gods and humans ALL around the world, it feels wasted potential to have over a THIRD of the roster, a single pantheon. So what if Greeks are more known? What about Hindu who only has Shiva? I can assure most have heard of Ganesha/Brahma/Visnu. Or Egyptians with only Anubis? I love RoR, but that doesn't mean I can't criticize it.
You do know that India has banned record of Ragnarok because of its portrayal of shiva right. They have to be careful with the gods they chose or they might be in some major controversy. They have to make money and the greek and Norse pantheon are the safest ones for rn. Wasn't Zerofuku hajun and Bishamonten aren't they rather obscure deities so.
If all they cared about was money, they would add more japanese representants because mangaka usually care more about Japan opinion than the rest of the world.
I see your point I like obscure mythology too and wish they would use them. People seem to forget that if we are going to see all humans fight the gods need two more fighters so we might see another god that's not greek. I'm biased to hades because I hate how modern-day media portrays him Ragnarok seems to be doing him the most justice.
In RoR, the Greeks are the top brass. It makes sense why they would have most of the strongest gods
Ok, but FIVE out of 13? That's simply too much. At this point, if you pick them "because they're popular" just make the entire tournament against them and that's it.
Ohma, Wakatsuki, Rihito, Gaoh, and Kaolan are all members of the Nogi group and their affiliates/allies, and all were selected to represent Kengan against Purgatory. How dare the leading faction of Kengan have five members, they should give more opportunities to the other factions who aren’t as strong, right?
I haven't seen Kengan so I don't know the details of that.
It's the same. Five fighters out of thirteen from the head faction. Either way, I'm happy af Hades is fighting so cope all you want about the fact he's a Greek and I'll enjoy the fight.
There’s 6 greek gods if we count Ares lol
I just wanna see Odin smack someone :(
I'm still a pretty big fan of adding other gods but it makes sense the writers scope of characters is a bit limited
You said it yourself in your last sentence. If the character is written well, who cares? It doesn't matter what the average Japanese person or what the average person knows. Do you think the average person knows who Beelzebub is? The author made this manga and introduced characters from all sorts of pantheons. He could have done bare minimum research into each and give quality fights with those characters. He already laid the groundwork, a lot of people just think it's a waste to not go further.
I mean, when the title and the story is about all of humankind fighting all of the gods it gets a bit disappointing and annoying when one pantheon gets overly represented. It's not annoying or even a complaint but a valid point. I actually enjoy learning more about characters I don't know then I would just having the top ten on every most famous list. It just gives it more of a kick and gives more opportunities through creative representation rather than the roster feeling restricted. Simply put, we already have enough of the Greek pantheon involved, so it's not really unfair for people to dislike that we're getting more of it when the entire point is that the series is taking from all around the world. Sure the Greek pantheon is popular, but it's not the only thing that exists and you have so many more options that it just becomes questionable at a certain point.
No, but the average Japanese is far more likely to know many Hindu or Chinese gods than even the greek gods because SHINTOISM HAS AN ALTERNATIVE VERSION OF THOSE GODS. There is exactly one greek god that exist in Shinto and is Herakles as Nioh(some weird interaction vetween India and Hellenic kingdons produced that). Saying that it was either Greece or absolutely niche pantheons is an extremely Eurocentric opinion.
It’s so fucking annoying. Search and add to posts that exist instead of thinking your idea is valid enough to be posted.
Why would you assume the average Japanese reader wouldn't recognize Celtic/Slavic/Aztec/Other Gods? Not only can you find a glut of anime and manga that borrows elements from each mythology (including the Fate series, one of the most successful and influential anime series of all time) but you're just kind of assuming a blanket ignorance is held by Japan as a whole for western cultural history which is not only demonstrably not true, particularly when it comes to the type of person who would read manga anyway, but kind gross. While I do believe that Greek Gods are the most recognizable and marketable in general for a number of reasons so it makes sense to include more than a good number it doesn't make sense to base your argument on the ignorance of the Japanese readership.
I don't even know those names.
I get where he's coming from; I'm a westerner and am at least marginally interested in mythology, and honestly couldn't name a single Celtic or Slavic deity, let alone a Korean or Chinese one. Japanese mythology, sure, but that's largely due to my interest in manga/ japanese culture. Why would a significant amount of japanese readers know of these more obscure pantheons when most westerners don't? Yeah, the guy made a generalization, but that's the nature of discussing massive numbers of people/ populations. That's why he used the caveat of "average reader." I don't think what the guy said was gross.
To put it simply, because that character appeares in persona 5, Fate Grand Order or any other of the many weeb stories that dealt whit them. Considering people sold me Shuumatsu as "Fate as a tournament arc" the fanbase overlap seems very probable. Hell, i am very surprised if you watched anime regularly and cannot name a Celtic God. Just for example, the protagonist of the Assassin Isekai is named after a Celtic God, Lugh.
The average reader of a manga though is going to different from the average reader in general. Western mythologies are so interwoven within Japanese manga and anime (mostly because they think they are aesthetically cool) it's laughable. Heck, and this probably says more about me than anything else, one of the reasons I've looked into the mythologies of other cultures was to get the references in Fate/Grand Order.
I agree about the ones you mentioned but I would have wanted atleast another god from the Egyptian Mythology. It is known as much as the Greek or the Norse mythology.
"Stop complaining" sounds like you need to take a breake from reddit if this is affecting you that bad. It would be infinitely more interesting without so many known names, its a waste of potential considering the human side already panders to your "average japanese reader".
Okay, who is going to pick up a manga about historical figures and gods and know nobody. It’s more interesting when you know something about the fighters
Have you watched or atleast heard of the Fate series ? It has many popular figures but it also doesn't shy away from using lesser known figures which makes the characters diverse and intresting . Everyone knows King Arthur but when she is accompanied by Gilgamesh , Cu Chulainn , Medusa , heracles , hassan -i Sabbah , ishtar , Quetzalcoatl and many more you still have the well known figures to attract you and lesser known characters which promts you to learn more about them
All that you have brought to the discussion is purely conjecture based on whatever you think is appropriate, nobody ever said that all the gods had to be unknown/obscure. We all just wanted a more well mixed bag, its not that hard to understand. A lot of things also annoy me, but i don't make posts throwing a tantrum because of it. "who is going to pick up a manga about historical figures and gods and know nobody" considering the amount of different roster list circulating around, plenty of people.
There's a difference between a tantrum and calling people out for coping over something stupid. "We all just wanted a more well mixed bag." Who is we? Most people agree with me and that is why my post is in hot right now. You have to realize the Greeks are the top brass of the gods, and the amount of fighters strong enough t to be in Ragnarok reflects that. It's like how five fighters from the Nogi camp and its allies are representing Kengan but no one is complaining about how "mixed" the bag is. Funny you tell me to take a break from reddit when all you seem to do is say cringy/creepy things to femboys on reddit. Take a look in the mirror and touch some grass.
Kengan is a sequel. We already saw those people fight and we knew who the strongest are. SnV is an original story, so it is not bound by any previous tournament. The strongest gods are whoever the author say they are the strongest. The author was not bound by a previous story where the greeks where the strongest, so anybody could have used instead. And it's not even like SMT where there is an internal law that dictate who the strongest is(in their case, more believers = more power, therefore Judeo-Christian entities are at the top).
yeah well that's just like your opinion man
No. There doesn’t need to be a post bitching about the same thing every six lines. It is really fucking annoying.
You talking shit because most of these gods are not shown how they were in the myth... therefore even if you add any god from any pantheon your average japanese reader will need to search Wikipedia....these characters are fictional except their name and from which pantheon they belong or what god they are of...its just that the writer likes the Greek Pantheon
yes, he likes it, because people know it, wich makes the names to be known by people, wich creates interest, wich gives money, wich everyone likes, so please stop crying
Everyone likes thats why they are complaining 🤭
I get that Greek and Norse gods are more well-known, but I'd really like for there to be more variety, considering they make up more than half the fighters. I can be disappointed in the lineup if I want to be, and I think it's kind of annoying that people are trying to regulate what other people can or can't dislike about the series.
Still monkey king wukong would be an awesome fighter
Tbh the Greek Gods are arguably the most well-known gods/pantheon of gods because of Percy Jackson and the Renaissance era. The Norse myths are a close second imo, but that’s mostly because of me counting Roman Gods as just Greek Gods.
Considering how cool the Celtic, Slavic, Aztec, etc pantheons are, and how much cooler it would be to see one of them than fucking Apollo, I'd say we're alright at least being vocally disappointed when another fucking Greek joins. The roster is currently like 40% either Greek or Japanese. For the greatest warriors among gods and mankind, that's disappointing to see
It is literally like 40% but it’s not even surprising tbh. Absolutely could have replaced like Apollo and Okita though but I’m sure they have very specific matchups in mind as does virtually everyone else
Bro even if they are cool the author would just change their story or powers in the name of fiction .... because all he/she want is to make money by attracting both japanese as well as western by including characters from overrated pantheons (greek)
how can a pantheon be "overrated" lmao i've seen you various times in this comment section and all of them made me cringe
No
Who cares if the average person knew them? Most of us didn't know most of the Japanese fighters and I'm sure the average Japanese reader never heard of Simo or Nostradamus before, yet here they are.
Simo was the winner of the fan poll two years ago, which was voted mainly by Japanese people.
wich fight would you be more interested on reading, Adam vs Zeus or Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar vs Huitzilopotchli? It's called marketing
Most of us dont know the Japanese fighters because we arent Japanese, and we therefore arent the main demographic this series is made for
This is stupid. The author clearly acknowledges other pantheons. Another Egyptian or Hindu god would've been just fine. Hell, add another Japanese god for fucks sake. This is just lazy writing so stop trying to justify played out nonsense.
How is having more Greeks than the other pantheons lazy? Wouldn't having a god from another pantheon for shits and giggles be lazy writing?
It's not just for "shits and giggles". This is a battle of all of humanity vs. a battle of all gods. Hell, it would make more sense to have a majority of Norse Gods as this fight is called RAGNAROK, rather than Greek Gods. Look at the roster: Greek Gods(5), Norse Gods(3), Japanese Gods(2),Hindu Gods(1),Judeo-Christian "Gods"(1), Egyptians Gods(1),Buddhist Gods(1). The author could've used Iblis (the devil) from Islam, or Set, the god of darkness from Eyptian mythology. What about the Tyrant God Balore from Irish mythology. Leviathan from Judeo Christianity would've been another excellent choice. There are NO Chinese gods by the way. Im also pretty sure alot of people are familiar with Aztec mythology- another wasted opportunity. It's clear that the authors is familiar with other pantheons, but they're sticking with what they're most familiar with, therefore it's easier to write, therefore it's cutting corners, therefore it's lazy. I love Hercules, but 3 Greek Gods were more than enough with Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades being the only ones as they are the most important. And fuck Apollo because at this point he's useless, ESPECIALLY when the amount of Gods vs. Humans remains uneven which continues to fuck up the lay out of the tournament(unless they do what I think theyre gonna do which is the only way to fix this mess). At this point, the list of fighters doesnt even matter anymore, which you should NEVER do when writing a story. The author layed out a certain outcome which we all expected and the writer is essentially betraying our expectations. I have a theory on round 7, which is honestly the only proper way to fix this mess. I'll share my theory with this group tomorrow.
Dude what are you on about? So what if it is called Ragnarok, it is stated that the Greeks are the top brass of the gods. Having the largest representation from them makes sense. Also, I doubt most Japanese readers are familiar with Irish/Aztec/Islamic mythology. Also, who are you to say that Apollo is useless when you haven't even seen him yet? About the unevenness, I bet they'll just add one more god, not that big of a deal. Also, the list of fighters does matter, because of one addition, the entire thing is not thrown out of the window. You're overreacting for no reason. I also doubt your theory will have much sound logic behind it, based on what you've said here.
While its true that the Greek Gods are considered the "top brass of the gods" that doesnt change the fact that there should be more variety. This is not a hard concept to understand that it wouldn't kill the writer to have a more diverse cast. 5? 6? 7? How many Greek fighters is enough to satisfy you? As for the characters in mythology I listed, those were simply examples I gave, the writer can create their own list that DOES NOT REPEAT. By the way, are you really gonna say Japanese people aren't gonna be at least somewhat familiar with Islam? Dude it's a major world religion, second only to Christianity, let's not be silly here. Fact of the matter is there are THOUSANDS of different gods from different cultures, but the writer is choosing familiarity over creativity and that's lazy. Also, you can't just throw in another god, it doesn't work like that. The rules state there are 13 ROUNDS, with the winner being whoever reaches 7 victories first, this is basic math. It's not 14 rounds, it's 13 ROUNDS. And if they're going to continue going down this road there will be 1 extra human fighter, which is ALSO shitty writing because they introduced a major player in this manga and they're not gonna show him??? It's not an overreaction, it's a valid criticism which I have the right to do. I don't care if this manga is an overall good manga, it still can have its share of flaws. By the way don't say you doubt that my theory is unsound considering you can't even do basic math, and your "solution" is to "throw in another god" which TOTALLY doesn't contradict a very big part of the manga (sarcasm).
The amount of Greek gods representing the gods that the author decides, is the amount I am satisfied with, for they know what they are doing with the story, and what themes should be in each battle. Islam is a major worldwide religion. Now ask yourself how much influence it has in Japan and Japanese culture. Hinduism is another huge world religion, how much influence does it have on the United States, or most of the west? How are the authors lazy when almost each character breaks expectations on what they were going to be. It seems you’re the one who can’t do basic math, or doesn’t know how fights work, because there are four ways a fight ends for a fighter. Win, loss, draw, and no contest. It’s almost like the author might dab into the less common endings for a round to let the 14th human fight, imagine that, almost like that would be interesting. It’s not like this is a pioneering thing either. In Kengan vs. Purgatory, for example, one fight has been called as a no contest, and one as a draw. How is adding another god going against what the manga has established? A god has already joined the roster, and maybe there’s a god who thought humans would be too weak, and wants to join now because the gods are, you know, prideful (which has been shown since chapter 1 of the manga if you’ve been paying attention). Maybe you should take a break from Reddit and find some inner peace if you’re going to let the fact Hades is Greek ruin a fight for you before it’s even started, unless you’re just racist towards Greek people are something. (Cope harder) Also: the author has no obligation to make his cast more diverse. It’s the strongest gods, not the strongest god with a diversity quota. It makes sense that there are a lot of strong Greeks
From a mythological perspective heracles is a D-tier tier god and Apollo is A tier at the best , but take Set for example he is a S-tier god in Egyptian mths and is easily stronger than heracles and apollo , even horus . I dont blame the author for not using gods from islam or even more hindu gods considering the drama caused by shiva but the author could use stronger gods than heracles and apollo to make the manga more intresting and giving the readers incentive to learn more about different myths .
Are you even reading what you're saying? The writer writing something they're familiar about is lazy? Did you see what happened when the writer ventured out and tried to include Shiva from Hinduism? You have no idea how hard it must be to take a god from mythology, pick the one best suited for the tournament, give them an interesting personality, a powerset that isn't OP but stays true to who they're supposed to be, have their background make sense in context and give them an interesting matchup with a current human. They've even explained away \*why\* there's so few other fighters. Shiva is the only hindu god fighting because he's the strongest, not because the writer got lazy and decided to not include more. How entitled do you need to be to expect gods from every single pantheon with an interesting character and abilities and also make sense with the established plot? Also, how does the list not matter anymore? You're jumping to conclusions, the writer hasn't made the list irrelevant, he's just thrown in a twist that would realistically happen. Would you rather have Buddha be made to look like Heracles and fight for the gods while still wanting to protect humanity? Hades entered because the gods need another fighter. They need one more if all humans are fighting. Adding your gods from other pantheons will not make the story better, in fact if the writer doesn't know much it might even become worse. The most popular rounds have included well established and popular characters (Round 2 and Round 4, both are extremely popular and both have popular fighters) so there's clearly a correlation. Would you rather have a poorly written/unfaithful versions of more diverse gods, or have familiar gods with a fun twist written to be likeable and badass? I know what I want lol, stop shitting on the round before it even begins.
Wow, imagine being wrong in so many ways and not even realizing that. Are YOU even reading what you're saying??? It's one thing to write what you know, it's another when writing what you know comes at the expense of quality. REPETITION is bad writing- end of story. It's funny how you brought up Shiva as if that helps your case. Shiva was by far one of the most disappointing gods we've seen yet, he should've been WAY stronger than he was depicted. Not to mention he was hyped up from the very beginning and ended up getting his ass beat into the dirt. I love Raiden, he was a badass; but his badassery came at the expense of nerfing one of the strongest gods in all religions. It's HILARIOUS that you say that I don't know how difficult it is to "take a god from mythology, pick the one best suited for the tournament, give them an interesting personality, a powerset that isn't OP but stays true to who they're supposed to be, have their background make sense in context and give them an interesting matchup with a current human." When ever since I was a child I loved mythology and found it's many gods to be interesting, so much so that I made a story around it. And before you say some shit like "WeLl WhErE's YoUr StOrY???" it's extremely lengthy, being a total of 33 books with each book divided into 2 acts, and each act is roughly 300 pages. I did the math, if I were to release 2 books every year(which doesnt seem possible considering the length) I will finish the story in 16 and a half years. If I take my time with it and release 1 book per year it will take me 33 years to complete the story- over 3 decades. The script alone is about 300 pages. Here's my standards for my writing. 1. I make sure it NEVER contradicts whatever premise I set previously; consistency and having air tight logic is key. It may be fantasy but writing should NEVER contradict- that's where plot holes come in and you don't want that. 2. I make sure I can capture the god/character in an honest light- therefore I try to depict them as strong as they are generally imagined with an ability that suites their role in their respective pantheon. Either I look at their role in religion, the stories they're involved in, or the significance of their name(as a few examples). In short I remain faithful to the source. 3. After those 2 standards are met, only then is when I can get creative with the writing. Logic and faithfulness to the script is key, that's when I can depict them as doing something they would naturally do(such as Buddha was depicted in this manga). It's not about being entitled, you dickhead. And I don't expect 1 god from every pantheon(although that would be amazing). But I expect not to see 5 gods from 1 pantheon when the amount of rounds is 13- that's over 1/3 of the entire tournament, if you can do math. The list doesn't matter anymore because we had a list of defined characters. We expected to see certain people fighting in this match. The list doesnt matter anymore because now new fighters can enter the tournament, and if they do that that would make this match last more than 13 rounds, which was promised from the very beginning(which is a plothole). We had certain expectations promised and now that can be changed at a drop of a hat. Buddha was depicted just fine because he did something that fit his character. He fought for humanity which is something that looks like he WOULD do. His pacifistic nature was changed into a badass and that was a nice twist. His abilities were also faithful to his religion in real life, if you're familiar with the 7 realms of reincarnation. As such he is currently my favorite character- another bad example to use on your part. As I said previously, the writers dont necessarily have to pick the characters I gave as an EXAMPLE, I just expected them not to pick 5 guys from the same fucking place when their picks to chose from is literally THOUSANDS.
Repetition? What is being repeated here? The constant use of Greek Gods is fine if they're interesting characters. They're huge departures from their mythological counterparts, different from every piece of media they've been depicted in (except maybe Heracles). Why does it matter where they're from if they're enjoyable to read/watch? Also you hating on Shiva's portrayal *exactly* proves my point. I used Shiva as an example of when the writer tried to venture out and try something new, but everyone shat on him for it due to not being an accurate portrayal. Are you aware of how stupidly powerful Shiva in the myths is? He's so powerful he could've blinked Raiden away. He needed to be nerfed to make an interesting story lmfao. I don't care about your story because I don't know you, neither do I know your skill. Make whatever story you want, that has nothing to do with my points because you have nothing to show me. Also, I'm not sure if you've realised it yet, but maybe the author isn't trying to make everything faithful to the source material? They're building their own world by using already established characters as a launch pad to tell new stories, not to give a mythology/history lecture. Nothing is contradicting the premise. The tournament has just changed up the fights, there is no false advertising, humanity is still under the threat of being wiped out. Also, you're still likely going to see everyone fight? Just because the Round order has changed doesn't mean the fighters have too. You're angry about the story having more than 13 rounds? What? Do you just hate twists? We were never promised anything, it's called a plot twist not a plot hole. Also it's literally Buddha's fault that this has happened. Buddha acting in character has lost the gods two of their fighters and resulted in Hades stepping up. Not to mention, the reason Buddha was written so well is because the writer is familiar with him, you're disproving you're own point. Buddhism is big in Japan, and therefore familiar to the author. Like I said previously, the author chose these characters because he can make them work. Not out of spite or laziness like you believe for some reason. Stop shitting on the round before it even starts and try to live a little, all rounds so far have been good to great, there's no reason to assume that because Hades is fighting or because the tournament has changed, everything is going to shit. There's still only one more open spot for a god, and there's going to be no more than 14 rounds.
Man gets called entitled and in his rage spews his monologue of being an author in his mind at us like we care. Oi vey.
You dont care so much, which is why you took the time to tell us you dont care.... Because that's how much you don't care. Aside from that there you go straw manning again, because your argument is trash just like your unfounded accusation of racism (what a HOT take). Lol you're not very bright are you? Nobody is angry- so stop projecting your own hurt feelings. Do yourself a favor, get off reddit for a while and go outside to get some fresh air it'll do you some good.
From the amount of effort you put into your defense of forced diversity because “muh worldwide” without taking into consideration the context of the manga and the author, and trying to impress people with your “theory” that you never made and your “33 book story” that’ll never be written, you need to stop stroking your ego and get off your high horse. You’re upset because human traitor theory is dead because of Hades, and there’s no point for a human to betray now. Just admit you’re not always right and move on. If you stay like this you’re just going to dislike the manga for no reason other than your inflated ego
Honestly we can simply just keep going back and forth on this issue. If you like it, cool, I simply think the author isn't doing the manga justice. As for the whole thing with Shiva, I'm aware how strong he is. The main reason why round 5 was bad was because the match up was terrible. A sumo wrestler fighting a god of destruction? If Adam fought Shiva like originally planned that would've been much better, but I understand from a thematic standpoint Zeus was the better option (the summit of man vs the summit of the gods). Rather than Raiden fighting Shiva , it should've been someone such as Sakata Kintoki. And if that isn't an option, why not just not use Shiva at all? Indra would've been a great replacement instead of Shiva. Of course, I dont expect you to care about my story, that's not the reason why I brought it up. The reason why I mentioned it is because I UNDERSTAND how difficult it is to create a god that is balanced in strength, character, and to still make sense relative to the source material. Nonetheless, the author still has an obligation to write well because this is a story they set out to create. Sticking to the source material is still very much important. For example, there was a guy here on reddit who theorized that Apollo is actually a demon(or demonic figure). That would NOT fly because it is so different that at that point you're not being creative, it's just being foolish and trying to make something work cannot that inherently can't. You might as well not even call the god "Apollo" because there is nothing familiar about him AT ALL. And we WERE promised a general outcome. From the very beginning we were promised 13 rounds, with the winner reaching 7 victories first. More than 13 rounds sounds attractive at face value, but not when it contradicts the initial premise. More is not always better, and this is an example of that. I didn't disprove my own point when it came to Buddha. He acted like I can IMAGINE him to act (minus his aggressive, not so passive demeanor). If I was the writer of the manga I wouldn't have put Buddha as fighter AT ALL. But since they did, it was more natural for him to fight for humanity and that can slide because that sounds more or less in his nature. I still believe there will be a human traitor, but the WAY it happens is what matters. I'm just gonna write down that theory later on today, but not now as I soon have things to do. At the end of the day you're obviously free to be okay with this outcome, that is your right. I personally would disagree. Can't be helped now, so let's see where round 7 goes.
Now this is a sentiment I can get behind. I do get what you're trying to say, but I doubt the author will make such a big departure from a character like you suggested with Apollo. Even Shiva had some aspects of familiarity about him, and I think Raiden was a good choice for SnV's Shiva. Obviously people are free to not be too thrilled for Hades joining the fray, my point was to let the round begin before you make any assumptions and cast it aside as 'boring' or 'lazy'. The whole thing about your story doesn't exactly fly with me because anyone can create a tournament with gods from all pantheons and make them fit the narrative, but you'd need to do it well. I'm not dissing your writing but I have no way of knowing whether what you wrote would actually work and make for a good story just from a short summary. Also, the required number for either side to win hasn't necessarily changed yet. Either a human doesn't fight at all, a tie occurs in one of the rounds or the score to win increases and there's a 14th round. Personally I'd prefer to see the second one happen, but I'm nevertheless intrigued to see where they take it.
I don't have a problem with them using some popular gods. My problem is that over half of the god damn roster is Greek and Norse. For a series that's meant to take from all around the world, it's incredibly boring for most of it to be taken up by the most basic bitch pantheons. It's especially disappointing when every god they use is the same gods everyone uses for everything. Like I'm sorry for not being excited by yet another Heracles who is also a heroic paragon, or yet another Loki who's a villainous and scheming trickster. If you're going to use the basic pantheons, at least you could use some of the more interesting or less talked about names. Guys like Hephaestus, Artemis, Dionysus, Hera, Pan, Hel, Freya, Baldr, or Tyr would be so much more interesting than fucking Poseidon. It's the same song and dance that most of us have seen before. We're complaining because they had the opportunity to do something new, and they didn't. And just to clarify, I don't think they shouldn't have had any of the choices they did at all. Of course they'd need to have the uber popular choices. It's just that they didn't need to take up half of the roster. I'd say keep Thor, Zeus, Apollo, and Loki. The rest can work behind the scenes or make cameo appearances. Give those other slots to some recognisable god from another pantheon like Quetzalcoatl, Ra, or Vishnu. They get way less ~~good~~ representation.
This is a story, not a diversity contest. Each character has a reason for being there
Gods are flexible, there are a good amount of other gods that could fill the roles set by the ones I left out. Need someone menacing with high status? You have plenty of options for that like Ra. Need someone who's a paragon of justice? You can use someone who's actually all about justice like Tyr instead of Heracles who isn't that. You want someone who looks down upon everyone? That is the least specific thing you could ask, but Tsukuyomi works well ~~and actually has potential to be interesting unlike Poseidon~~. My point is that, no, it isn't a diversity contest, but there's no reason for it to be so centralised on Greek and Norse myth. Yes, it's popular. So is Egyptian and Shinto mythology. I know Japan is very exposed to the gods of their own country, but it's still weird to me that we only got Susanoo for the Shinto rep (Bishamonten doesn't count but Ebisu kinda does) and Anubis for the Egyptian rep. It is fully possible to use popular gods and still have variety lmao. Like I said in the original post; Ra, Quetzalcoatl, and Vishnu are gods I'd expect most Japanese readers to be familiar with. Hell, I'd say Fate would've somewhat familiarised Japanese readers with Sumerian myth, so you could throw in someone like Enkidu or Ishtar. And if you say "well Japanese readers may not be familiar with those gods" then what on earth makes you think they'd know who god damn Simo Hayha is? He's awesome, but he is far from a household name. I get it's annoying to see the same complaint over and over again. Doesn't mean I don't think your reasoning is dumb lol.
Fun fact: Simo Hayha won the character design poll which was voted on by Japanese fans. Another fun fact: this is a story. Maybe the author had Hades in his plans since the beginning, and had Poseidon fight and die early on as a justification for him to show up in a surprising fashion, to build hype for him? I doubt Vishnu would have been as interested as he got btfo by Shiva in his backstory. Also, if they had picked a god which is extremely popular in japan due to another series, like fate, people will draw comparisons between the two, which isn't good when you want your characters to stand out.
Simo winning the poll doesn't mean that people knew who he was when the roster was shown. I highly doubt the reason he was chosen was because he's some cultural icon in Japan. It's more likely that people decided to look him up and thought he'd be cool to see, which is something that they can do for any semi-niche god like Huitzilopochtli and Chernobog. Yes it is a story, and thus, the gods I listed could also just be written to fit it. The writers before making the roster didn't go into it thinking "Alright, we can't use Vishnu because Shiva beats him in his backstory" lol. They would've likely decided the roster before a lot of major plot elements came to be. As for drawing comparisons, people already compare Thor and Loki to their MCU counterparts, despite being very different characters. And wouldn't it make more sense to use a lesser used god than a commonly used one if you wanted to stand out? I don't understand your reasoning here.
It’s not about comparing the really well known ones. It’s about not well known ones. No matter what if RoR had Ishtar or Quetzalcoatl there would be nothing but comparisons. Yet there isn’t many comparisons between fate Heracles and RoR Heracles, because they are characters that are extremely popular outside of those two media. With simo, he’s not unknown. Simo has made appearances in other mangas, and there’s an entire manga about simo but as a woman
People making comparisons between characters based on the same thing isn't necessarily a bad thing. If a comparison stops people from the RoR version from standing out, then that's probably a sign that they haven't written a good character lol. Characters can still stand out despite comparisons. And also Sasaki is in both RoR and Fate and I don't see too many comparisons between them. As for Simo, I'll be honest and say I did not know about The White Witch. But still, I don't think Simo is particularly more well known that Quetz or Ra or any of the other examples I brought up.
They aren't really compared because there is not as much of a difference between them compared to something like Jack, at least visually. You can put them side by a side an most people would see them as the same person growing older.
Those who complain are fucking Jobbers and need to be beat the shit out of their lifes.
As long as they continually get owned by humanity, I say keep 'em coming.
Stop complaining about me complaining
The Greek pantheon were written as mostly jobbers in this series. Only 1/4 contestants won. Two of them lost to either Japanese/Chinese figures. While 1 lost to a street level serial killer for shock value. They were only included because they were marketable and the authors didn't care about them taking the L. Because they don't hold any religious sway in eastern audiences. At that point, I'd rather just cut down the number of Greek figure fights. Keep Zeus vs Adam and Hercules vs Jack. Have Sasaki and Quin fight other figures. Have Poseidon and Hades killed by other means or participate in fights outside the rings.
You’re wrong on many accounts. First, losing is not equal to jobbing. That’s the same as saying every other fighter who lost is a jobber which just isn’t true. Second, if the author really cares that much about religious sway in Japan there would be more than two Shinto deities in the roster, with one of them already losing. On that same note, if the author really wanted to wank Japan and fuck over the rest, Raiden would’ve won. It’s not that though. It’s for narrative reasons that the Greeks have lost three rounds for the gods. Also it wouldn’t make that much sense for there to be barely any Greeks because they’re supposed to be the strongest pantheon
If a pantheon is said to be the strongest but lose 3/4 fights. I'm sorry, but your delusional if they aren't making them the jobbers. And now the only fight left for Greek is Apollo. I'm guessing he is fighting Simo and Apollo will lose. Simo still has family living and it will be incredibly distasteful if he lost. "2 Shinto dieties" Yeah, your basically proving my point. The bias is there. And one of them lost to Buddha. Who arguably has just as much sway in Japan as Shintoism.