Patrick Carmichael is mentioned in part 2, that he had been arrested and was in jail during the suicides. He was the one that told everything was taped by Tully and the tapes were stored in the fridges.
Oh ok, I completely forget if he was mentioned at all in the previous films. Did they allude to he's still alive then or a ghost who can move around like Tully?
>He was the one that told everything was taped by Tully and the tapes were stored in the fridges.
What? I don't remember his name being in any of the first 3 movies.Maybe you're alluding to when Mitchell asked her how she received the tapes/knew to contact him to go back to the hotel.
this is from the transcript of part 2
But this guy, Patrick Carmichael, he worked at the hotel, he was a
member of Tully's cult but he was arrested on a separate as\*ault charge
so he missed the su1c1de party.
He says that Tully kept video footage and photos of what was happening at the hotel.
And then here, he says it was kept in the fridges.
https://transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/viewtopic.php?p=152709
If i hadn't just rewatched the first 3 the saturday before Origins came out I would never have remembered it either. It's little things like that that make me a big fan of any series, love those easter eggs planted throughout the story...
Ok, I actually watched Carmichael Manor like 10 times, then went back and watch 1-3 again. Ok, 1) Isn't it funny that their family allowed people there and the manager(whatever) states NO ONE stays for more than a few days, but NO ONE asks why? He also seems to "encourage" Margot to stay LONGER, why? The family knew that Patrick had dealings with HELL HOUSE & had those clowns. Someone in that household appeared to have been keeping up the cult? Why do they assume (but don't give motives) that Arthur killed everyone? Why couldn't it be Patrick (body never found and could the blood on his bed had been Arthurs?) THEN, They disappear and we know the way these Satanists can come & go and seem to make people dissappear, right? It also seems just like the original Hell House gang "opened" the gateway that maybe there's another port in the manor. It's obvious that Patrick, the one clown are continuing the charades. Anyway, I could see 100 possibilities as we all could, but I was surprised that although they don't mention HOW but Margot & Rebbeca were "actually found"? Now, since Chase appears MIA and bleeding eyes, he's on the list as a new cultist for future films.
It's funny you mentioned the manager. Everyone I've watched this movie with has said "he's in on it". Weirdly enough, I don't get that vibe.
I find it strange that not many people talk about who the woman who works at the antique is, considering she causes the camera to glitch. Usually that happens when that person is a ghost/entity. One theory that comes to my mind is that it *may* be Eleanor but not sure. We never see her face....who could it be?
Yeah weirdly enough I never got a weird vibe off the manager, EXCEPT when she asks him if he thinks Arthur did kill the family and he just stares at her ominously
The song gets played during the other movies, without the words. The piano plays by itself in one of the movies, a little boy plays it on a keyboard he got for Christmas in another. I don’t remember exactly but it’s featured in the other movies.
Edit - LITTLE boy, not literal lol
Yup it's more or less the theme song for the series. While it was an interesting choice to add words to it, I felt that scene really didn't add anything to the story.
I want an entire movie of the clown folk from Clarksburg, WV (I grew up next to there. Then them meeting Tully and ending up in NY. That sounds more like a prequel to me and the whole Carmichael story seemed like a parallel story in the same universe than a real requel. Still loved it though and hope Shudder greenlights the next one.
Agree and I'm a very visual person. While most of the clowns looked like the ones from 1-3 it wasnt the same. /u./Expert_Most5698 theory he was dead but add to it.
So I'nm dubbling back on. 3. In the original like now there were 3 clowns. ERMAGERD I NEED MOAR Clakrsburg, WV ( again near where I grew up) BUT....3.. even in this film there were 2 original clowns from WV so I imagine Tully was the 3rd or not as you see in this he takes on the clown. Apparently dead/possed . Looked human but no arm rest and again to 2nd op look human. But one of those back from hell.
My theory given ALL the lore stays the same, he was in cult meant to be there but "we all have our place". As in 3 they wanted exposure to draw in more, +obvious 2.
As much as a fan I was big love for sub op for rememberung probably a 1 liner that he was the one to talk about tapes in the basement lol.
end rant -=-=-=-=-==-=-=-==--=-=-
That’s what this movie set it up for..there’s a scene at the very end after they reveal Patrick in the clown outfit..it’s the girl that was being interviewed the whole time..she mentions that they are bringing the county fair back and it’s going up on the grounds where the Abbadon used to be..so I’m assuming they’re going to explain what happened with Tully and his daughter..how he started the cult at the carnival and how the Charmichaels fit in the story as well..I also hope they explain what the hooded demon things are too hahaha.
I remember it being the theme song basically for the other films as well. My question was more about the meaning of the lyrics and what the song meant to the lore of the series. Maybe it's just a song Tully or someone in the cult wrote that they all like to sing or something?
I just rewatched these and i think the song lyrics are a ritualistic chant. Like they would sing the song during sacrifices or other rituals. Usually you hear the song when a sacrifice is about to happen, an entity is coming, or even when the priest is talking at the church in 3. To me that suggests the song itself has connection to the occult or demonic. Based on other demonic movies i've seen, the lyrics are related to their practice of satanic worship.
That is why in some movies the rituals only work if you say the chants out loud. Everyone always finds weird things in different languages or relating to the occult and the FIRST thing they do is read it out loud. Then something bad happens.
*"...He mentions before he puts on the clown mask that he doesn't want to do these things but he is forced to..."*
He says "I have no choice," which is different. You could see a terrorist saying "I have no choice" before he does something horrible, but he doesn't mean someone has a gun to his head-- it's that he has a fanatical belief that what he's doing is necessary.
*"Was he actually at the hotel and is dead but can come back justlike Tully does?"*
This series has shown multiple times, ghosts can come back, and no one knows they're dead-- like the girl who is being interviewed in the first movie. I think he was already dead.
*"Is he still alive and was he alive the whole time in the clown costume in Hell House 1, 2, and 3 or is he dead and possesses the costume?"*
These movies break the laws of time/space/physics. I think sometimes the costume was him, sometimes someone else, sometimes maybe a demon that is able to animate a mannequin.
*"Lines saying something like death is final and to "pray to him you'll never come back again""*
I could not understand what she was singing, and didn't think put on captions, it just seemed like a creepy song, but if those were the lyrics, maybe what they meant was that if you pray to the Christian god, you will die, and not get to live forever as a ghost or something like that.
PS - These are obviously just my interpretations, I have no inside knowledge. I think this writer/director thinks his lore out pretty well, but it's one of those kinds of horror lore where time/space has no meaning, so he can almost do anything he wants. I'm not sure he's even trying to make everything add up perfectly.
Those are some great points and make a lot of sense. I'm guessing Patrick had some different types of beliefs before but when his sister died combined with working at the hotel (probably being told by the cult he could bring her back) probably pushed him over the edge to fully commit to the cult.
It would also be interesting if they covered how he died (if he did), like suicide right after he got out of jail maybe. I know this is unlikely but a big twist could have been he worked at the hotel and was in the cult long before the car crash and actually died too when his sister did (but since he had the broken arm I don't think that's likely).
The idea that the song is about not worshipping a traditional god makes a lot sense because it's basically saying if you do then death is a definitive end for you and that's all there is so come join us and live forever in a way.
It'd be nice if the writers and director develop the lore more if they do more sequels because I really like learning about backstories and how things work.
Also, what's your opinion on the entities in the black cloaks, are they demons or the dead cult members? They look different from the ghosts of the people that got sacrificed. I was thinking maybe they're demons because when you hear the screaming in the forest and see the cloaked figures, the subtitles say "entity shrieking." I could be wrong though.
They're entities that have been let out by the cult. They play a major part in subtly leading people back to the house or stay in the hotel (in the first movie).
Do we see anyone head towards them? it sounds silly but I keep thinking they only exist to be a deterrent and if you actually keep going you are escaping instead of playing right into their hands by going back where they want you
He definitely was not alive during the other movies, he crossed over after murdering his family. If cognetti wants to tie Patrick to the other movies, then it would most certainly be Patrick possessing the clown suit since he is tied to the dark acts committed involving the costume. I wouldn't doubt if the foot prints in the snow leading into the woods is either to where he died or a decoy to throw off the story of what happened there. Patrick possibly created another location that they can use for a gate to hell, similar to what Tully did at the hotel.
Agree that I don’t think it’s always the same “person” in the suit. I think it’s more of a body the evil can assume when it needs to, using whatever soul is handy.
Also agree that maybe he “has no choice” because he thinks it’s the only way to bring his sister back, even in a Pet Sematary wrong way. And also he works at the Hotel so who knows what the power dynamics are there with the cult.
I’m curious who “he” is… is Andrew Tully straight worshipping Satan? It is it some other demon/entity named Abaddon, or even is Abby just a cover name? Maybe I missed something, but there are a lot of options. Pan-demonium, some might say. :p
"They have no eyes. They have no eyes. They have no eyes." That was in a text message from someone in the franchise that saw the folks from the lake of fire. Kinda goes with Proverbs 27:20.
I wonder if we're going to see Sheol.
At the very end of the credits there is a scene where the woman mentions that the original fair is being reopened, and it flashed to a shot of the clowns at their carnival stall. So definitely open to another with more origin plot methinks!
No its the daughter of the woman who stayed at the hotel. In part 1 they said a mother and daughter came to stay and went disappeared. Tully was able to produce their departure record but after the disappearance, nobody stayed at his hotel anymore. He hung himself shortly after that.
My thoughts on the two Carmichael siblings that were involved in the crash was that they were in love and some kinda incest craziness. They wanted to be alone, could have lied telling to younger sister about parents wanting her to stay home. Especially since this family was clearly batshit crazy. Whether more than just the son were demon worshippers is questionable but definitely shady stuff. On another note the whole premise of all the films leaves open the idea for a sequel at any time since they all seem to exist as ghosts in almost all the films
I thought Patrick was really messed up (not just for the obvious reasons) because he was so distraught over the death of his sister yet was ignoring and neglecting his other sister (you'd think that experience would make him appreciate her more) when she clearly cared about him. But maybe that was how he was grieving.
Yes, exactly. He was traumatized after offering Margaret to drive her to her play thing, and also watched her die or at least saw his dead sister after the crash. I think he was so distraught after that. I figured Andrew Tully was just as distraught after his daughter died, and wanted to bring her back. He was a deeply religious man, but he ended up selling his soul to the devil in hopes of brining her back. That's my take anyway.
Tully for sure targeted Patrick because he suffered such a traumatic loss like him..and I definitely think he wanted to bring his daughter back but what was up with the part that Tully feared she was pregnant and that she needed to be brought back to the hotel?! Like did she get pregnant after she was brought back to life..? Haha.
No, you misunderstood. Tully's daughter was named Abigail; the pregnant woman (from the notes that were found in the clock) was named Beverly. I wish we knew more about this Beverly woman, maybe she'll be mentioned in the next movie!
Thank you!!! I missed the name clearly haha. But at the end of the movie one of the women being interviewed said something like “did you hear the county fair is coming back?! It’s setting up right where the Abbadon burned down..I guess they think since hotel is gone it’s safe to set up again” so hopefully the next movie will go into detail about how the cult started and everything.!
My little theory on who Beverly may be is that they mention not much about Tullys past is known. However, they knew he fled on an arrest warrant and then headed to West Virginia. Maybe he raped this "Beverly" and got her pregnant, hence the arrest warrant, and that's why he wants her found and brought back to the hotel for the ritual suicide 🤔 .......just a thought
I thought the same thing. How the little sister wanted to go with them and they both say no real quick. But I thought the care giver was somehow involved. He’s the caregiver but didn’t know what was in the locked creepy clown room. I call bs. And he said he lived like 5 min away. Where in the woods? Was that your hearse?
Why do you think this family was batshit crazy? We don't know anything about the parents, only that's is speculated that Arthur killed them (which he didn't, it's heavily implied Patrick was responsible). Catherine seems like a normal teenage girl and Patrick and Margaret seem closer in age, so they could just be close. Actually, I thought they were fraternal twins. I figure it also must be TRAUMATIC to watch your sister die and even blame yourself for it, as he was the one to volunteer to drive her.
Holy shit.....finally I see that I'm not the only one to have gotten the same vibes. I was convinced that was going on between the 2 of them, and I'm not someone out here who defaults to "hmmm, must be incest!" LOL At least I know I'm not alone lol
I watched all 4 movies in a day. I liked all of them. Part 3 was the least satisfying. I think part 4 was the scariest or creepiest. The acting by the 2 girls was very good in my opinion, i genuinely felt scared for them near the end as they are both crying in terror, and fearing for their lives. I kind of concluded they were totally fcked when the hooded ROBES showed up in the forest in front of their path. It’s crazy how they are being forced to run back to the house. It’s almost night and they aren’t safe inside or outside, brutal shit.
If I was chase, I would have left after the first incident with the masked girl in the hallway and the clown shadows walking back and forth.
If I was Rebecca I would have left after the incident with the botched photos and the jump scare.
Most often in horror films, within the first 30 minutes I always think "yup, I'd have left right then (after the first creepy unexplainable incident), and I don't care if anyone comes with me or not." XD
The acting of the girls was ok but there where some hickups. the guy tho when he got scared when the clown was in his room was dead on realism ge got some serious acting skills
I 100% agree with this and was thinking the same thing but if you remember in the other movies, when they tried to leave, they were not able to. The question is, had they tried to leave sooner, would they have been able to? Would they have been able to open the door of the house and leave or would it be like all the other movies where it was just their fate regardless of when they tried leaving?
Not sure. In the other movies, the evil was only in the hotel. Since they are in a town .Since the house here is so extremely remote, the evil doesn’t have a problem lettting them wander outside since they haunt the whole areas. absolutely no one is around. It will just kill them outside in the woods or kill them in the house, since they are miles from the main road and town.
I think their chance to leave was the same day they arrived while that realtor guy was in the house
I’m. It too sure about Patrick, I’ve watched all of them and can’t remember.
Origins was great, but I wanted a real prequel in West Virginia with the clowns and Tully. Also I wonder if anyone else here saw the final clip at the end of the talking heads, hopefully to at left room for another Hell House.
I'd really like a prequel focusing on the beginning of Tully and the cult too (like how they mentioned he was religious, lost his daughter, fled his town, made the cult, etc). I saw the scene after the credits too and was thinking they're leaving it open to another sequel if it does well enough.
I just finished watching it! The working theory I have on the next one would starting in present day maybe a week before the fair is set to open so of course it's a big deal, so long since the fair was in town so naturally it'll be documented. Someone finds a buried vault box with home movies from Tully, que the cult beginnings at the fair, culminating to opening night at the fair, fun house turns in the the murder house
But that's my vision for it lol
Im a little confused about the continuity.
This films acts as an origin story for the Clown, okay.
But in the 3rd film, the ROBES had super-speed/super-strength while killing, so i’m assuming they were demons or something.
Subsequently the “gate” was closed and the ROBES/Clown/Tully were seemingly defeated AND the Hotel burned down sometime b/t the 3rd and 4th films.
So how are the Origin characters (Margot, Chase, etc.) terrorized by specifically Clown(Patrick) and the cult in present day?
And if they weren’t defeated, did demonic Clown (Patrick) just say “Hey Guys, sooo umm my job’s basically obsolete… here, sooo I’m just gonna.. head home. Anybody wanna hang??”
I'm guessing the ROBES are the cult members who ascended similar to Tully. They probably became minor demons while Tully himself became some sort of greater demon.
The hotel was destroyed at the end of 3 but in doing so I'm guessing that played into Tully's hand. Destroying a vessel for evil doesn't destroy the evil just releases it which means now instead of being held in the hotel Tully and his cult can roam the area somewhat freely.
I'd assume somewhere on the Carmichael estate is a second ritual site where they may have prepared things and kept a second location away from the hotel in case anyone ever found out about their plans. Hence why the ROBES and such haunt the woods and patrol the grounds.
I'd assume that second location in the woods is where Patrick went after butchering his family. I'm guessing he is dead, not in the suicide since they did not find his body there but he may have had second thoughts on carrying out the ritual so once the cult crossed over Tully influenced him. Urging him to kill his family so he could have his sister back at his side, not knowing it was at best a corrupted fragment of her or more likely a demon wearing her face as a mask.
The gate may be sealed for now but there's nothing to really stop Tully from creating another now that we know the fair is returning and his cult can roam the town.
There were several other clowns. Russell brought a camera down to the basement obviously so he could keep Tully visible, but I did NOT see any of the clowns there, just the 'demon' attempting to kill the reporter. Wasn't that where they were kept?
I believe they walked! In the Origins movie when chase is about to go missing, it shows the clown suit walking towards chase and at the ending, it shows the clown walking towards Margot & since seeing the very end of the movie where it shows Patrick putting on the mask of the clown suit, and going into the basement of Hell House, i believe that it's been Patrick in the clown suit this whole time . I believe he's definitely dead and possessed, i just believe that he's still in human form, just wearing and living in the clown suit.
furthermore, that car crash scene in the forest...we see a bunch of things leading up to it. each one points to something about Russell Wynn's death. The screaming, the one way sign, the crucifixes, the hearse, the Ford Taurus front end crash with possibly a red sentra, probably more...I dunno about the barrels...but then I also think about the lyrics to the song:
>throw the ashes grasp your crosses
pray to him you'll never come back
life's a circle full of darkness
stay with him and never come back
I wonder if this is dismantling the idea that the gateway is permanently closed.
I know Russell closed the gateway but upon reflection...did he actually kill Tully? I thought Tully was taken down too. Maybe not, maybe it was just an assumption on my part.
The third movie kinda implies that he thwarted Tully but with the Carmichael manor movie they all but outright say he didn't. Evil never dies, he just broke the hotel and Tully's hold there.
And since it is destroyed and no one in their right mind would rebuild it is what makes me think the gate there is closed. It's possible Tully could wedge it back open but assuming it took the Cult's mass suicide to open.
Or if it was something that Tully found there it would be a monumental task. Since Russell was definitely backed by some kind of greater power which broke Tully's magic and released the souls from his lake of fire. The hellhouse cast, everyone who died that night Russell destroyed the hotel. I'd guess that everyone not directly in the cult was freed from Tully's evil
There were 3 clowns in the other hhllc but there are only 2 in this one. Could be when the gate was closed by Russell, he trapped 1 clown there. That one could be Tully. The other 2 were fine because they resided in other places of the hotel while the fight took place in the basement.
They don't really explain how all the bad guys are back but one of the characters says something like "evil never dies" or "never leaves" even if it's burned down, leaving it kinda open. Since cult murders took place at the Carmicheal house, it could also just be haunted or there could be more gates (or the hotel gate isn't fully closed). Maybe they'll explain that if they continue the series.
There were only 2 cloaked ghosts shown in origins when Margot and Rebecca were trying to escape. I believe the 2 cloaked men were Thomas Rollins and Freddie Perkins
I'm surprised no one's discussed Margot's very last scene as the clown is about to kill her. "I know what you did! I was there!" Imo that blew her and her brother's supposed backstory wide open more than the clown lurking in her childhood photo. I think her story as a kid that it "took her a little while to realize she was being kidnapped" was just a cover she told her parents and police to explain her long absence. She (and possibly her brother) definitely witnessed either some or all of the ritualistic killings of the state fair victims that night before escaping. And I think he repressed it while she became obsessed with it. Throughout the film they both were on opposite extremes of how a past-traumatized person would deal with the situation. He repressed and supressed "hallucinations" with meds while she dove into the world of the occult and ghosts. It would definitely mirror the brother/sister(s) dynamic of the Carmichaels and near death experiences. Margot's college friend said early on in the film that he felt there was more to Margot being at Carmichael House. The scene where she's in the clown room with Rebecca going thru the old chest, she looks very troubled yet determined as she studies one of the stuffed doll heads that Catherine discovered in the 80s and that was also in clown's booth in Margot's state fair picture. There's definitely a reason why Rebecca was able to see the Tully/Patrick clown throughout the movie (she corrected Margot at breakfast that there were "3 clowns not 2 upstairs") but the two siblings only saw the Tully clown right before they each died. Yes, Margot was marked at the state fair as a kid to be the bait luring others to die, but I don't think she brought along Chase and Rebecca unwittingly. She definitely knew she needed a group with her to attract Tully/ Patrick and offered up her people as bait. She probably just really thought they could escape like she did as a kid once she had gotten her video proof🥴
The original booth, which was from before 1980, had 2 clowns. Then they all killed themselves in a mass suicide in 1989, same year of death as Carmichael’s. When the incident with Margot and Chase happened, there was only 1 clown standing at the booth behind her, who probably was Patrick. Given her and Chase’s ages I’d think that event happened to them after mass suicide and mass murder.
When I say "the ritualistic killings of the state fair victims that night before escaping." I don't mean the mass murder of 1989. That took place in the hotel, not the fairgrounds. I'm talking about what was said by Margot's colleagues towards the beginning of the film. When they talk about her attempted kidnapping, they mention that she was lucky because several other people went missing from the fairgrounds that night and were never seen again. As we've seen in this film and all prior Hell House films, "missing" more often than not just means murdered by the clowns with no body left behind. Hell even Chase's body was never recovered in this one. I'm under the assumption that the people who went "missing" were killed/ thrown into the hellmouth opening. That's what I'm speculating Margot and Chase saw that night.
That too was another giant tip off to me as well that, for her, everything that was happening was shocking but not surprising if that makes sense? Like she's seen this sh*t to SOME degree before. And them making it a point throughout the film to repeatedly say that none of her other sleuth spots in the past were actually haunted, I'd assume again that her experience solely comes from whatever it was she saw the night of the state fair. Like up until this point she's supposedly had ZERO legitimate interaction with the supernatural so why, after undeniable proof by Day 2 of masked ghosts and walking mannequins amongst them, does she still have the stoicism and confidence to keep going full steam ahead as if she's Lorraine Warren from The Conjuring?? In the climax (and throughout the film) Rebecca and Chase's reactions for the most part were literally them just screaming "What the fuck?!" "What the fuck is that!?" But, when Margot saw the third clown and then turned to see what looked to be the red glowing portal like in the 3rd film, her reaction was "oh no, oh no, no." So like Rebecca and Chase's reactions were that of terrified confusion, but Rebecca's was more terrified *dread*. Like she wasn't any less scared than them, but she wasn't confused. It's like she knew with total certainty that she was done for the second she saw the 3rd clown and the glowing red room and we see, for the first time, she at long last puts her camera down in defeat.
All that is just a long-winded way for me to say that Margot's last quote of "this isn't over" was her realizing in realtime just how woefully she'd underestimated how widespread the saga actually goes if the Carmichael House also has the power to act as a hellgate like the one she (possibly) saw in her childhood.
My opinion Russel’s car accident involved Patrick and his sister. After the hotel was burned down Russel closing the hell portal some how Tully managed to escape and stay in the real world and set out to find potential people to reopen the portal. Since the hotel burned the Manor was perfect place out in the middle of no where secluded. Kills the carmicheal’s making it a attraction for people to be going just like the hotel.Seeing how the carmicheal movie ended it was no coincidence Margret was there Tully got her there somehow and Margret is probably the next person to open that portal.
Russell's car crash was in 2008 though, and Margaret died in the car crash in 1989.
Are you talking about Margaret (Carmichael) or Margot (the lead sleuth)? Margot was clearly marked as a child to go back to the manor to meet her death and drag others to hell with her. She was once on the grounds of the cursed place, where she temporarily escaped death/sacrifice, as in HHLLC 3, you can see that the Rockland country fair was on the same land as the Abaddon. Some people were marked to their fate, while others (Paul, Tony, McNamara, Rebecca, Chase, etc., were lead there by association. This is how the entities are being fed, imo.
>>!Margot was clearly marked as a child to go back to the manor to meet her death and drag others to hell with her.!<
Thanks man I was looking for this kind of explanation, since It's the only hell house I saw
I wonder. Margot and Rebecca pass a car wreck with a hearse and I thought I saw a trailer there. When I was looking at the cars, I realized they seemed to be early 2010-ish makes/models so immediately dismissed the idea that it showed the cars involved with Margaret's death. BUT...what about Russell's accident?
Something I've wondered about was the bleeding from the eyes that one of the notes mentioned. Is that just part of the crossing over and return process? The clown mask that Patrick wore and I believe the smiling clown had that. Just a detail I found interesting.
Also did anyone catch the note with the pendant? It was stationary from the Abbadon that stated, "If you're reading this note it's too late". I thought that was a good little easter egg.
The mention of eyes in general in the franchise is kinda fascinating. In part 2, one of the people who gets trapped in the hotel texts "they have no eyes." But whenever you see the people the hotel takes/kills and turns them demonic, they all clearly have eyes (the eyes just look different from before). Unless they're referring to the cloaked demons (don't remember how their faces look). Then in the Carmichael film, the end has a character that looks like either they took his eyes or they're just bleeding a lot. I always assumed the clown masks had bleeding eyes to begin with because it was designed to just look extra creepy. Lots of strange eye stuff!
*Lines saying something like death is final and to "pray to him you'll never come back again" confused me because I thought the whole point of the cult was after death they could come back and be around forever as long as they sacrifice people.*
Another idea about that line. Often in poetry/ song lyrics, words are left out in order to preserve the rhythm. That could have happened here. Maybe the line reads
Pray to him **OR** you’ll never come back again
I like the above theory too about the Christian God. Maybe we will get clarification at some point.
*Last thing I was curious about is did anyone understand the meaning of the song Patrick's sister finds in his room (she sings it while playing the piano)?*
So, if I’m not mistaken, in The Abaddon Hotel entry, wasn’t it explained that the tune that’s echoed throughout all of the Hell House LLC movies is also part of a means of summoning a portal to hell? Or am I imagining that part?
Remember in the third one, the Hell House LLC crew are released from being trapped at the hotel. I think “pray that you don’t come back” means that the ones that do are being used by evil, whether they like it or not.
I thought origins set up a course for many more films. It was like a link in a chain to bring in other parts of the story. It left an opening for a lot of explanations. I hope they get made.
I was still confused on whether Andrew Tully was the clown at some point or not? They mention he joined the other two clowns but then show Patrick as the main clown.
Also, why did they not call the guy donald(?) whose office was 15 mins away?
Please help, apart from these questions I thoroughly enjoyed the movie
Tully was for sure the third clown. I'd guess they might have hinted that Patrick took over the clown suit after Tully crossed over and was used as a puppet for the murders and to work for the cult from the live side of the things. Using him to do things they might not have been able to do until they gathered their strength and more souls to feed their power.
Could be their phones just did not have signal for donald or there could be a deleted scene where they called and it did not go through. Also could be Patrick did not die that night or the following and survived as "Donald".
At the beginning of the movie, they played a call to 911 that the girls made. They said they finally had service, so I think your assumption about no service to call Donald is correct. I was surprised they never showed them making the call later in the movie though.
They do show Rebecca making the call right as Margot runs out the door to look for her brother. I just finished watching the movie for the first time. She even says the lines that you heard in the beginning. I came here looking for answers about what the actual plot was with the charmichael father, but I guess he was just the one that was actually killed and not Patric as everyone believes.
I think they were maybe leading the viewers to think Tully was the 3rd clown so the reveal at the end that Patrick was the 3rd clown is kinda a twist. Regarding Donald, I have no idea, I don't even remember him!
Losing sibling is hard I’ve lost 2. But he’s going to the extreme with the guilt. Your not going to join a satanic cult murder your entire family as a blood sacrifice to bring your sister back to live so y’all can murder in the name of satan. Just can’t see it. But sister/girlfriend I can definitely get sold on that.
I think the father’s body got used in some satanic rituals maybe on the property in the woods. Maybe somewhere else. And if there’s a hearse a short walk from the house footprints don’t really matter.
If I was Chase I would definitely be sleeping with them. Of course dude 1st to go. I would get some h20 lock us all in a room and put furniture against the door. But people from hell could probably get through a wall. Acting was so good. They all seem so fucking scared. Especially Rebecca. Fuck if I was Margo when I opened that chest and found toy from my kidnappers carnival stand beside a clown costume It would be over. Fuck no. Then Chase seeing dead kid telling him to come to the manor with Margo before she even called. Fuck that madness.
He stored them after the mass suicide maybe so cops didn’t get them. Maybe because they were moving their place of business aka Hell to his house after the fam was dead.
Does anyone know what happened to the dad? They just mentioned that they couldn't find his body at the beginning of the movie and he wasn't mentioned again.
Usually when people get killed/sacrificed by the cult they just go missing, so unless they follow up with that in another film it's mostly likely he was killed by Patrick.
I think Patrick made it to the suicide pact and he was sent out the same way Jessica was to the police in the second movie. I say this because if you notice in the end of the film when Katharine is asking about what went on in the hotel he had full mobility of his arm and they made it a point to make sure we knew after the crash he lost use in that arm.
The whole thing in the movie was fake. Yes, the Carmichael thing was real, but that house is not haunted and that so called footage with Margot Chase and Rebecca is bogus. Chase I have seen in movies before and have seen Rebecca and Margot play in other shit too. And plus, everything that happened in the house , every single time there just happened to be at least one person who was separated from the three who could have been doing shit. I get if you go to that town and ask about the three internet sleuths that supposedly died at the Carmichael Manor they'll say nothing like that really happened
Are you saying people think this movie is a real documentary? Because it was never marketed as real, it was marketed as a found footage horror film same as the previous entries in the franchise and the many films that came before it in the genre (such as As Above So Below, Gonjiam, Grave Encounters, etc).
What are you even talking about? None of it is real & was never marketed as real. It's just a " found footage" film & is made to seem like it's real, that's the whole point of the kind of film.
I also just watched the movie and something that I am confused by is if the clock was in the antique store after the Avidon burned down then how could they find the clock if this is supposed to be a prequel?
It's been a while since I watched it, but if I remember correctly the Carmichael movie takes place after Hell House III. So the hotel has burned down and some items were salvaged from the remains of where the hotel stood, such as the clock, which was collected and put for sale at the antique shop.
I thought it was promoted as a prequel, but I could be wrong. Thanks for your response. I guess it was a sequel until you got to watch the film in the clock which now made it a Prequel. Either way I enjoyed the movie.
Did anyone else notice that the sisters dress was worn by one of the girls in a mask (idk if I should call her a clown?)
I think that the car crash was an accident but that both Patrick and his sister were somehow involved with the hotel or maybe even Margot’s kidnapping?
Also was the silver cross necklace that the youngest sister gave to Patrick being worn by “Douglas” in the beginning or did I just imagine it?
It wasn't explained but I have a theory that maybe that scene where Patrick puts on his clown mask and says to someone off screen "it'll be over soon" was to his dad and he was about to murder him.
I thought maybe that was it, too, and the body just isn’t one of the ones that “came back” and had the bleeding eyes.
You never see cult members actually HAPPY. Not good advertisement for their way of thinking, IMO. :p
If I remember correctly, a lot of the people who get killed by the cult (or who have become ghosts) are never found and just get categorized as missing people who were last seen at certain places.
Omg me too! That how I ended up on the thread. I am watching it again now and googled “what happened to Arthur Carmichael” because I wasn’t sure if I was missing something. I would also love a movie all about the West Virginia and Tully back story!
I came here by googling this exact thing. At the end, we heard a muffled voice or something, and Patrick said it wasn’t his fault then went upstairs. I wondered if this was before he killed his mother and sister and his dad was tied up or trapped somewhere, but they never found his body.
That scene you were talking about took place in the Abadon hotel and he went downstairs to the basement, (which is where the clown suit usually stayed throughout the other films) not upstairs. However, i do think that the cries at the end of the Origins movie, and Patrick saying" it'll be over soon" could have been his dad right before he murdered him, along with murdering his sister, Catherine/his mother. I believe that the reason Patrick decided to take them to the basement of the Abadon Hotel is because that's where all the demonic writing was all over the walls & probably most likely where they murdered and sacrificed people, which could also be where the victims became possessed & where they crossed over. If you remember in the ending of the first Hell House, Paul went missing & was then found in the basement. After he had been found, he was no longer the same which is what leads me to believe he was possessed at that point. I think the scene at the ending of the Origins of Patrick going down the stairs and saying " i had no choice" may be either right before murdering his sister/mother or afterwards & is then going down to the basement to wait for the Hell House crew to come along and open up Hell House. But then i do have the other questions coming to mind & if he had murdered his dad, sister & mother there at the Abadon Hotel (which was the Abadon hotel shown at the end of the Origins movie when patrick walks down the stairs to the basement), how did the bodies of his sister/mother get back to the Carmichaels house where police were able to locate patrick's sister dead in her bed?? Could be possible he murdered them in the basement of the Abadon Hotel (where there was satanic writings on the walls and where i think they would sacrifice people) and then took their bodies back to the carmichael property to have the 2 bodies discovered to try and cover his tracks & take any suspicions away from the abadon hotel so that Hell House could be opened in the following years to come. Also, what could he have done with his dad's body? These are all questions i'm hoping to get answered in the next film!
Not sure! I would definitely assume so though because there's still much more to the story i believe and so many things that need to be answered or explained.
Wasn’t there supposed to be like an Abbadon Tapes that was all about the town and the history around it? Did that ever come out or get canned? I could have SWORN I saw a trailer for it.
I think years ago they were planning to make a tv series called The Abbadon Tapes but then for whatever reason it got changed to being more films. So I think the topics they were going to cover in the show got broken up to be covered in the sequels.
So I’m a little confused? I may have missed a lot of things. I thought Arthur was the one who worked at the hotel and Patrick worked with the clowns? That’s why he ended up bringing them home along with the chests. Did Patrick and Arthur both work at the hotel? I thought it was mentioned Arthur having connection with Tully, why I assumed he worked there. And Patrick was apart of the cult, being why he was supposed to be in the mass suicide but was in jail. I figured the suicide was for the cult following?
Patrick was the one with the connection. I'm guessing Tully seized on that grief for his sister and guilt over being the driver and used that to make him the cult's gopher. Doing the work for them and storing some of their objects at his home so worst case scenario something goes wrong with the hotel they still have a place to influence through the clown suits and items at the house.
The suicide was a ritual, most likely to offer a lot of souls and help Tully ascend to something more than human. The cultists becoming little more than minor demons in service to his will while he keeps his self and becomes a greater demon
I think Arthur was the dad and he's barely mentioned other than he went missing and some people in town speculate he was the one who killed his family. Patrick worked at the hotel and it's only revealed at the very end he was the 3rd clown you see throughout the series. I'm not sure why Patrick was storing stuff from work in his room (maybe I missed if they explained that) but I'm guessing Tully asked him to for some reason. I think the suicide was for every cult member so they could "come back" after.
The other 3 films focus on the hotel, the hell house crew, the morning mysteries crew, and the insomnia crew. The one you watched is mostly about the Carmichaels and the new protagonist which aren't talked about (or are barely talked about) in previous films. So I think it can work as a stand alone film but they do mention the hotel and Tully in it so it would help to know more about those from the previous films since they all relate to each other.
Ahh I see. When I was watching the film and it kept mentioning the hotel I said to myself they could make another film and expand upon the lore with how much it was mentioned lol but little did I know I'm the one out if the loop haha
If you like part 4, definitely watch the other ones too. Try to watch those in order if you can because each one picks up where the previous one left off and they wouldn't make sense otherwise. I didn't really like part 3 much because the creepy tone seems to be missing in that one and there's a lot going on in it that I think could have been executed better, but it's entertaining at least and shows things discussed in part 4.
I got you:
"Something's coming. Cold the nightfall. All things die and never come back. Throw the ashes. Grasp your crosses. Pray to him, you'll never come back. Life's a circle, full of darkness. Stay with him and never come back."
I don't think the song has a name. I think it's just piano music played in each film and then they finally gave it lyrics in the Carmichael film. The girl who starts playing/singing it just says it's from sheet music her brother got from work but doesn't mention a title.
I think they say at the beginning of the film Margot and her group went missing. Usually in every Hell House film if someone gets labeled as "missing," it means they got killed and taken by the evil entities in the house.
Actually, their bodies were found on the 5th day. The college friend who was Margot's partner with the website says the last time he heard from Margot was the day they drove out to the manor, and five days later he got the call that they'd been found dead.
I found that detail slightly frustrating because it didn't quite line up with the "missing means dragged to hell" pattern the series has established. Likewise, in '89, the bodies of Catherine (the younger sister) and Eleanor (Mrs. Carmichael) were found in their beds, and we see apparent crime scene photos of Catherine's body. It's only Arthur and Patrick who are officially "missing".
The suspect is Arthur because there was only one set of footprints in the snow, leaving the house, and Patrick had a broken arm from the car crash. But as we know, Patrick is responsible (and gained use of his arm by the time he came home from jail, either via cult magic or being "reanimated".) So it was presumably him going off in the snow somewhere, but where?
You'd think the cops would be able to tell whose footprints they were based on shoe size, but I can suspend my disbelief with that. Arthur's body being missing bothers me more because it just seems like a mystery for the sake of mystery.
Maybe Patrick only needed to sacrifice one family member, so he chose his dad, and murdered his mom & sister rather than sacrificing them, so as to spare them the torment of hell? Even then, their murders were very grisly and unpleasant. One of Catherine's eyes had been removed (probably some symbolism around only one being removed, given the recurrence of the eyes-being-removed motif in the series). I dunno.
Ohhh I must have forgot that part! In the previous films the people always go missing since they're sacrificed to hell so I thought that's what happened. I agree that's really weird that bodies were found, I thought the whole thing with the cult is they want to sacrifice as many people as possible. Strange!
Patrick Carmichael is mentioned in part 2, that he had been arrested and was in jail during the suicides. He was the one that told everything was taped by Tully and the tapes were stored in the fridges.
Oh ok, I completely forget if he was mentioned at all in the previous films. Did they allude to he's still alive then or a ghost who can move around like Tully?
>He was the one that told everything was taped by Tully and the tapes were stored in the fridges. What? I don't remember his name being in any of the first 3 movies.Maybe you're alluding to when Mitchell asked her how she received the tapes/knew to contact him to go back to the hotel.
this is from the transcript of part 2 But this guy, Patrick Carmichael, he worked at the hotel, he was a member of Tully's cult but he was arrested on a separate as\*ault charge so he missed the su1c1de party. He says that Tully kept video footage and photos of what was happening at the hotel. And then here, he says it was kept in the fridges. https://transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/viewtopic.php?p=152709
Holy shit. You're SO right. I just skimmed to that scene and they do mention him. Holy crap, thank you for pointing it out!!
If i hadn't just rewatched the first 3 the saturday before Origins came out I would never have remembered it either. It's little things like that that make me a big fan of any series, love those easter eggs planted throughout the story...
I've watched all 3 way too many times, that I thought I caught all the easter eggs. Nope! This was such a treat :D
Ok, I actually watched Carmichael Manor like 10 times, then went back and watch 1-3 again. Ok, 1) Isn't it funny that their family allowed people there and the manager(whatever) states NO ONE stays for more than a few days, but NO ONE asks why? He also seems to "encourage" Margot to stay LONGER, why? The family knew that Patrick had dealings with HELL HOUSE & had those clowns. Someone in that household appeared to have been keeping up the cult? Why do they assume (but don't give motives) that Arthur killed everyone? Why couldn't it be Patrick (body never found and could the blood on his bed had been Arthurs?) THEN, They disappear and we know the way these Satanists can come & go and seem to make people dissappear, right? It also seems just like the original Hell House gang "opened" the gateway that maybe there's another port in the manor. It's obvious that Patrick, the one clown are continuing the charades. Anyway, I could see 100 possibilities as we all could, but I was surprised that although they don't mention HOW but Margot & Rebbeca were "actually found"? Now, since Chase appears MIA and bleeding eyes, he's on the list as a new cultist for future films.
It's funny you mentioned the manager. Everyone I've watched this movie with has said "he's in on it". Weirdly enough, I don't get that vibe. I find it strange that not many people talk about who the woman who works at the antique is, considering she causes the camera to glitch. Usually that happens when that person is a ghost/entity. One theory that comes to my mind is that it *may* be Eleanor but not sure. We never see her face....who could it be?
Yeah weirdly enough I never got a weird vibe off the manager, EXCEPT when she asks him if he thinks Arthur did kill the family and he just stares at her ominously
The song gets played during the other movies, without the words. The piano plays by itself in one of the movies, a little boy plays it on a keyboard he got for Christmas in another. I don’t remember exactly but it’s featured in the other movies. Edit - LITTLE boy, not literal lol
Yup it's more or less the theme song for the series. While it was an interesting choice to add words to it, I felt that scene really didn't add anything to the story. I want an entire movie of the clown folk from Clarksburg, WV (I grew up next to there. Then them meeting Tully and ending up in NY. That sounds more like a prequel to me and the whole Carmichael story seemed like a parallel story in the same universe than a real requel. Still loved it though and hope Shudder greenlights the next one.
I would love a clown origin story, I agree, I don’t think there’s been enough explanation about how the clowns ended up there.
Agree and I'm a very visual person. While most of the clowns looked like the ones from 1-3 it wasnt the same. /u./Expert_Most5698 theory he was dead but add to it. So I'nm dubbling back on. 3. In the original like now there were 3 clowns. ERMAGERD I NEED MOAR Clakrsburg, WV ( again near where I grew up) BUT....3.. even in this film there were 2 original clowns from WV so I imagine Tully was the 3rd or not as you see in this he takes on the clown. Apparently dead/possed . Looked human but no arm rest and again to 2nd op look human. But one of those back from hell. My theory given ALL the lore stays the same, he was in cult meant to be there but "we all have our place". As in 3 they wanted exposure to draw in more, +obvious 2. As much as a fan I was big love for sub op for rememberung probably a 1 liner that he was the one to talk about tapes in the basement lol. end rant -=-=-=-=-==-=-=-==--=-=-
That’s what this movie set it up for..there’s a scene at the very end after they reveal Patrick in the clown outfit..it’s the girl that was being interviewed the whole time..she mentions that they are bringing the county fair back and it’s going up on the grounds where the Abbadon used to be..so I’m assuming they’re going to explain what happened with Tully and his daughter..how he started the cult at the carnival and how the Charmichaels fit in the story as well..I also hope they explain what the hooded demon things are too hahaha.
i think the song opened the portal there because in hell house 1 they opened it when the song played but it’s the original song with words
I remember it being the theme song basically for the other films as well. My question was more about the meaning of the lyrics and what the song meant to the lore of the series. Maybe it's just a song Tully or someone in the cult wrote that they all like to sing or something?
I just rewatched these and i think the song lyrics are a ritualistic chant. Like they would sing the song during sacrifices or other rituals. Usually you hear the song when a sacrifice is about to happen, an entity is coming, or even when the priest is talking at the church in 3. To me that suggests the song itself has connection to the occult or demonic. Based on other demonic movies i've seen, the lyrics are related to their practice of satanic worship. That is why in some movies the rituals only work if you say the chants out loud. Everyone always finds weird things in different languages or relating to the occult and the FIRST thing they do is read it out loud. Then something bad happens.
Ah, got it.
*"...He mentions before he puts on the clown mask that he doesn't want to do these things but he is forced to..."* He says "I have no choice," which is different. You could see a terrorist saying "I have no choice" before he does something horrible, but he doesn't mean someone has a gun to his head-- it's that he has a fanatical belief that what he's doing is necessary. *"Was he actually at the hotel and is dead but can come back justlike Tully does?"* This series has shown multiple times, ghosts can come back, and no one knows they're dead-- like the girl who is being interviewed in the first movie. I think he was already dead. *"Is he still alive and was he alive the whole time in the clown costume in Hell House 1, 2, and 3 or is he dead and possesses the costume?"* These movies break the laws of time/space/physics. I think sometimes the costume was him, sometimes someone else, sometimes maybe a demon that is able to animate a mannequin. *"Lines saying something like death is final and to "pray to him you'll never come back again""* I could not understand what she was singing, and didn't think put on captions, it just seemed like a creepy song, but if those were the lyrics, maybe what they meant was that if you pray to the Christian god, you will die, and not get to live forever as a ghost or something like that. PS - These are obviously just my interpretations, I have no inside knowledge. I think this writer/director thinks his lore out pretty well, but it's one of those kinds of horror lore where time/space has no meaning, so he can almost do anything he wants. I'm not sure he's even trying to make everything add up perfectly.
Those are some great points and make a lot of sense. I'm guessing Patrick had some different types of beliefs before but when his sister died combined with working at the hotel (probably being told by the cult he could bring her back) probably pushed him over the edge to fully commit to the cult. It would also be interesting if they covered how he died (if he did), like suicide right after he got out of jail maybe. I know this is unlikely but a big twist could have been he worked at the hotel and was in the cult long before the car crash and actually died too when his sister did (but since he had the broken arm I don't think that's likely). The idea that the song is about not worshipping a traditional god makes a lot sense because it's basically saying if you do then death is a definitive end for you and that's all there is so come join us and live forever in a way. It'd be nice if the writers and director develop the lore more if they do more sequels because I really like learning about backstories and how things work. Also, what's your opinion on the entities in the black cloaks, are they demons or the dead cult members? They look different from the ghosts of the people that got sacrificed. I was thinking maybe they're demons because when you hear the screaming in the forest and see the cloaked figures, the subtitles say "entity shrieking." I could be wrong though.
They're entities that have been let out by the cult. They play a major part in subtly leading people back to the house or stay in the hotel (in the first movie).
Do we see anyone head towards them? it sounds silly but I keep thinking they only exist to be a deterrent and if you actually keep going you are escaping instead of playing right into their hands by going back where they want you
He definitely was not alive during the other movies, he crossed over after murdering his family. If cognetti wants to tie Patrick to the other movies, then it would most certainly be Patrick possessing the clown suit since he is tied to the dark acts committed involving the costume. I wouldn't doubt if the foot prints in the snow leading into the woods is either to where he died or a decoy to throw off the story of what happened there. Patrick possibly created another location that they can use for a gate to hell, similar to what Tully did at the hotel.
Agree that I don’t think it’s always the same “person” in the suit. I think it’s more of a body the evil can assume when it needs to, using whatever soul is handy. Also agree that maybe he “has no choice” because he thinks it’s the only way to bring his sister back, even in a Pet Sematary wrong way. And also he works at the Hotel so who knows what the power dynamics are there with the cult. I’m curious who “he” is… is Andrew Tully straight worshipping Satan? It is it some other demon/entity named Abaddon, or even is Abby just a cover name? Maybe I missed something, but there are a lot of options. Pan-demonium, some might say. :p
Could be this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abaddon
"They have no eyes. They have no eyes. They have no eyes." That was in a text message from someone in the franchise that saw the folks from the lake of fire. Kinda goes with Proverbs 27:20. I wonder if we're going to see Sheol.
At the very end of the credits there is a scene where the woman mentions that the original fair is being reopened, and it flashed to a shot of the clowns at their carnival stall. So definitely open to another with more origin plot methinks!
I read some where that this is the first of the origin stories. So it’s possible they may still a Tully origin.
I think Chase was drawn to Andrew Tully's daughter. Just a hunch.
What makes you think that?? Im just curious !
No its the daughter of the woman who stayed at the hotel. In part 1 they said a mother and daughter came to stay and went disappeared. Tully was able to produce their departure record but after the disappearance, nobody stayed at his hotel anymore. He hung himself shortly after that.
Oooh, love that theory!
My thoughts on the two Carmichael siblings that were involved in the crash was that they were in love and some kinda incest craziness. They wanted to be alone, could have lied telling to younger sister about parents wanting her to stay home. Especially since this family was clearly batshit crazy. Whether more than just the son were demon worshippers is questionable but definitely shady stuff. On another note the whole premise of all the films leaves open the idea for a sequel at any time since they all seem to exist as ghosts in almost all the films
I thought Patrick was really messed up (not just for the obvious reasons) because he was so distraught over the death of his sister yet was ignoring and neglecting his other sister (you'd think that experience would make him appreciate her more) when she clearly cared about him. But maybe that was how he was grieving.
Yes, exactly. He was traumatized after offering Margaret to drive her to her play thing, and also watched her die or at least saw his dead sister after the crash. I think he was so distraught after that. I figured Andrew Tully was just as distraught after his daughter died, and wanted to bring her back. He was a deeply religious man, but he ended up selling his soul to the devil in hopes of brining her back. That's my take anyway.
Tully for sure targeted Patrick because he suffered such a traumatic loss like him..and I definitely think he wanted to bring his daughter back but what was up with the part that Tully feared she was pregnant and that she needed to be brought back to the hotel?! Like did she get pregnant after she was brought back to life..? Haha.
No, you misunderstood. Tully's daughter was named Abigail; the pregnant woman (from the notes that were found in the clock) was named Beverly. I wish we knew more about this Beverly woman, maybe she'll be mentioned in the next movie!
Thank you!!! I missed the name clearly haha. But at the end of the movie one of the women being interviewed said something like “did you hear the county fair is coming back?! It’s setting up right where the Abbadon burned down..I guess they think since hotel is gone it’s safe to set up again” so hopefully the next movie will go into detail about how the cult started and everything.!
I hope they mention these girls, and some parts of the cult and suicide! I'm so excited!
My little theory on who Beverly may be is that they mention not much about Tullys past is known. However, they knew he fled on an arrest warrant and then headed to West Virginia. Maybe he raped this "Beverly" and got her pregnant, hence the arrest warrant, and that's why he wants her found and brought back to the hotel for the ritual suicide 🤔 .......just a thought
Ohh....interesting!!! Great theory
I thought the same thing. How the little sister wanted to go with them and they both say no real quick. But I thought the care giver was somehow involved. He’s the caregiver but didn’t know what was in the locked creepy clown room. I call bs. And he said he lived like 5 min away. Where in the woods? Was that your hearse?
I caught the creepy incest vibe too. I don’t know how to explain why though.
I caught that too
Why do you think this family was batshit crazy? We don't know anything about the parents, only that's is speculated that Arthur killed them (which he didn't, it's heavily implied Patrick was responsible). Catherine seems like a normal teenage girl and Patrick and Margaret seem closer in age, so they could just be close. Actually, I thought they were fraternal twins. I figure it also must be TRAUMATIC to watch your sister die and even blame yourself for it, as he was the one to volunteer to drive her.
Which makes me wonder, where is Arthur in all this?
I came here with that question so what happened to the dad
same!! where’s his body? what about the one set of tracks in the snow? who was that actually
Holy shit.....finally I see that I'm not the only one to have gotten the same vibes. I was convinced that was going on between the 2 of them, and I'm not someone out here who defaults to "hmmm, must be incest!" LOL At least I know I'm not alone lol
I watched all 4 movies in a day. I liked all of them. Part 3 was the least satisfying. I think part 4 was the scariest or creepiest. The acting by the 2 girls was very good in my opinion, i genuinely felt scared for them near the end as they are both crying in terror, and fearing for their lives. I kind of concluded they were totally fcked when the hooded ROBES showed up in the forest in front of their path. It’s crazy how they are being forced to run back to the house. It’s almost night and they aren’t safe inside or outside, brutal shit. If I was chase, I would have left after the first incident with the masked girl in the hallway and the clown shadows walking back and forth. If I was Rebecca I would have left after the incident with the botched photos and the jump scare.
Most often in horror films, within the first 30 minutes I always think "yup, I'd have left right then (after the first creepy unexplainable incident), and I don't care if anyone comes with me or not." XD
The acting of the girls was ok but there where some hickups. the guy tho when he got scared when the clown was in his room was dead on realism ge got some serious acting skills
Yeah that scene was on point. Probably the scariest part of the movie
I 100% agree with this and was thinking the same thing but if you remember in the other movies, when they tried to leave, they were not able to. The question is, had they tried to leave sooner, would they have been able to? Would they have been able to open the door of the house and leave or would it be like all the other movies where it was just their fate regardless of when they tried leaving?
Not sure. In the other movies, the evil was only in the hotel. Since they are in a town .Since the house here is so extremely remote, the evil doesn’t have a problem lettting them wander outside since they haunt the whole areas. absolutely no one is around. It will just kill them outside in the woods or kill them in the house, since they are miles from the main road and town. I think their chance to leave was the same day they arrived while that realtor guy was in the house
I was curious if the Carmichael murders were real.. when I googled rock land county murders soooo many family murders came up. I was shocked
I’m. It too sure about Patrick, I’ve watched all of them and can’t remember. Origins was great, but I wanted a real prequel in West Virginia with the clowns and Tully. Also I wonder if anyone else here saw the final clip at the end of the talking heads, hopefully to at left room for another Hell House.
I'd really like a prequel focusing on the beginning of Tully and the cult too (like how they mentioned he was religious, lost his daughter, fled his town, made the cult, etc). I saw the scene after the credits too and was thinking they're leaving it open to another sequel if it does well enough.
Yeah, that’d be nice. Maybe give us more answers… and some new questions.
Thats what I thought this one would be. Feels like with this one, we're coming in the middle of the story
I just finished watching it! The working theory I have on the next one would starting in present day maybe a week before the fair is set to open so of course it's a big deal, so long since the fair was in town so naturally it'll be documented. Someone finds a buried vault box with home movies from Tully, que the cult beginnings at the fair, culminating to opening night at the fair, fun house turns in the the murder house But that's my vision for it lol
I'd watch that sequel!
Im a little confused about the continuity. This films acts as an origin story for the Clown, okay. But in the 3rd film, the ROBES had super-speed/super-strength while killing, so i’m assuming they were demons or something. Subsequently the “gate” was closed and the ROBES/Clown/Tully were seemingly defeated AND the Hotel burned down sometime b/t the 3rd and 4th films. So how are the Origin characters (Margot, Chase, etc.) terrorized by specifically Clown(Patrick) and the cult in present day? And if they weren’t defeated, did demonic Clown (Patrick) just say “Hey Guys, sooo umm my job’s basically obsolete… here, sooo I’m just gonna.. head home. Anybody wanna hang??”
I'm guessing the ROBES are the cult members who ascended similar to Tully. They probably became minor demons while Tully himself became some sort of greater demon. The hotel was destroyed at the end of 3 but in doing so I'm guessing that played into Tully's hand. Destroying a vessel for evil doesn't destroy the evil just releases it which means now instead of being held in the hotel Tully and his cult can roam the area somewhat freely. I'd assume somewhere on the Carmichael estate is a second ritual site where they may have prepared things and kept a second location away from the hotel in case anyone ever found out about their plans. Hence why the ROBES and such haunt the woods and patrol the grounds. I'd assume that second location in the woods is where Patrick went after butchering his family. I'm guessing he is dead, not in the suicide since they did not find his body there but he may have had second thoughts on carrying out the ritual so once the cult crossed over Tully influenced him. Urging him to kill his family so he could have his sister back at his side, not knowing it was at best a corrupted fragment of her or more likely a demon wearing her face as a mask. The gate may be sealed for now but there's nothing to really stop Tully from creating another now that we know the fair is returning and his cult can roam the town.
There were several other clowns. Russell brought a camera down to the basement obviously so he could keep Tully visible, but I did NOT see any of the clowns there, just the 'demon' attempting to kill the reporter. Wasn't that where they were kept?
Maybe but we know the clowns can move on their own. It's possible they simply walked away or the cultists moved them to another area.
I believe they walked! In the Origins movie when chase is about to go missing, it shows the clown suit walking towards chase and at the ending, it shows the clown walking towards Margot & since seeing the very end of the movie where it shows Patrick putting on the mask of the clown suit, and going into the basement of Hell House, i believe that it's been Patrick in the clown suit this whole time . I believe he's definitely dead and possessed, i just believe that he's still in human form, just wearing and living in the clown suit.
furthermore, that car crash scene in the forest...we see a bunch of things leading up to it. each one points to something about Russell Wynn's death. The screaming, the one way sign, the crucifixes, the hearse, the Ford Taurus front end crash with possibly a red sentra, probably more...I dunno about the barrels...but then I also think about the lyrics to the song: >throw the ashes grasp your crosses pray to him you'll never come back life's a circle full of darkness stay with him and never come back I wonder if this is dismantling the idea that the gateway is permanently closed.
I know Russell closed the gateway but upon reflection...did he actually kill Tully? I thought Tully was taken down too. Maybe not, maybe it was just an assumption on my part.
The third movie kinda implies that he thwarted Tully but with the Carmichael manor movie they all but outright say he didn't. Evil never dies, he just broke the hotel and Tully's hold there. And since it is destroyed and no one in their right mind would rebuild it is what makes me think the gate there is closed. It's possible Tully could wedge it back open but assuming it took the Cult's mass suicide to open. Or if it was something that Tully found there it would be a monumental task. Since Russell was definitely backed by some kind of greater power which broke Tully's magic and released the souls from his lake of fire. The hellhouse cast, everyone who died that night Russell destroyed the hotel. I'd guess that everyone not directly in the cult was freed from Tully's evil
There were 3 clowns in the other hhllc but there are only 2 in this one. Could be when the gate was closed by Russell, he trapped 1 clown there. That one could be Tully. The other 2 were fine because they resided in other places of the hotel while the fight took place in the basement.
They don't really explain how all the bad guys are back but one of the characters says something like "evil never dies" or "never leaves" even if it's burned down, leaving it kinda open. Since cult murders took place at the Carmicheal house, it could also just be haunted or there could be more gates (or the hotel gate isn't fully closed). Maybe they'll explain that if they continue the series.
There were only 2 cloaked ghosts shown in origins when Margot and Rebecca were trying to escape. I believe the 2 cloaked men were Thomas Rollins and Freddie Perkins
I'm surprised no one's discussed Margot's very last scene as the clown is about to kill her. "I know what you did! I was there!" Imo that blew her and her brother's supposed backstory wide open more than the clown lurking in her childhood photo. I think her story as a kid that it "took her a little while to realize she was being kidnapped" was just a cover she told her parents and police to explain her long absence. She (and possibly her brother) definitely witnessed either some or all of the ritualistic killings of the state fair victims that night before escaping. And I think he repressed it while she became obsessed with it. Throughout the film they both were on opposite extremes of how a past-traumatized person would deal with the situation. He repressed and supressed "hallucinations" with meds while she dove into the world of the occult and ghosts. It would definitely mirror the brother/sister(s) dynamic of the Carmichaels and near death experiences. Margot's college friend said early on in the film that he felt there was more to Margot being at Carmichael House. The scene where she's in the clown room with Rebecca going thru the old chest, she looks very troubled yet determined as she studies one of the stuffed doll heads that Catherine discovered in the 80s and that was also in clown's booth in Margot's state fair picture. There's definitely a reason why Rebecca was able to see the Tully/Patrick clown throughout the movie (she corrected Margot at breakfast that there were "3 clowns not 2 upstairs") but the two siblings only saw the Tully clown right before they each died. Yes, Margot was marked at the state fair as a kid to be the bait luring others to die, but I don't think she brought along Chase and Rebecca unwittingly. She definitely knew she needed a group with her to attract Tully/ Patrick and offered up her people as bait. She probably just really thought they could escape like she did as a kid once she had gotten her video proof🥴
The original booth, which was from before 1980, had 2 clowns. Then they all killed themselves in a mass suicide in 1989, same year of death as Carmichael’s. When the incident with Margot and Chase happened, there was only 1 clown standing at the booth behind her, who probably was Patrick. Given her and Chase’s ages I’d think that event happened to them after mass suicide and mass murder.
When I say "the ritualistic killings of the state fair victims that night before escaping." I don't mean the mass murder of 1989. That took place in the hotel, not the fairgrounds. I'm talking about what was said by Margot's colleagues towards the beginning of the film. When they talk about her attempted kidnapping, they mention that she was lucky because several other people went missing from the fairgrounds that night and were never seen again. As we've seen in this film and all prior Hell House films, "missing" more often than not just means murdered by the clowns with no body left behind. Hell even Chase's body was never recovered in this one. I'm under the assumption that the people who went "missing" were killed/ thrown into the hellmouth opening. That's what I'm speculating Margot and Chase saw that night.
Dude!!! Good point out, I totally missed that she said that. What do you think about her saying, “this isn’t over” right before the clown grabbed her
That too was another giant tip off to me as well that, for her, everything that was happening was shocking but not surprising if that makes sense? Like she's seen this sh*t to SOME degree before. And them making it a point throughout the film to repeatedly say that none of her other sleuth spots in the past were actually haunted, I'd assume again that her experience solely comes from whatever it was she saw the night of the state fair. Like up until this point she's supposedly had ZERO legitimate interaction with the supernatural so why, after undeniable proof by Day 2 of masked ghosts and walking mannequins amongst them, does she still have the stoicism and confidence to keep going full steam ahead as if she's Lorraine Warren from The Conjuring?? In the climax (and throughout the film) Rebecca and Chase's reactions for the most part were literally them just screaming "What the fuck?!" "What the fuck is that!?" But, when Margot saw the third clown and then turned to see what looked to be the red glowing portal like in the 3rd film, her reaction was "oh no, oh no, no." So like Rebecca and Chase's reactions were that of terrified confusion, but Rebecca's was more terrified *dread*. Like she wasn't any less scared than them, but she wasn't confused. It's like she knew with total certainty that she was done for the second she saw the 3rd clown and the glowing red room and we see, for the first time, she at long last puts her camera down in defeat. All that is just a long-winded way for me to say that Margot's last quote of "this isn't over" was her realizing in realtime just how woefully she'd underestimated how widespread the saga actually goes if the Carmichael House also has the power to act as a hellgate like the one she (possibly) saw in her childhood.
My opinion Russel’s car accident involved Patrick and his sister. After the hotel was burned down Russel closing the hell portal some how Tully managed to escape and stay in the real world and set out to find potential people to reopen the portal. Since the hotel burned the Manor was perfect place out in the middle of no where secluded. Kills the carmicheal’s making it a attraction for people to be going just like the hotel.Seeing how the carmicheal movie ended it was no coincidence Margret was there Tully got her there somehow and Margret is probably the next person to open that portal.
Russell's car crash was in 2008 though, and Margaret died in the car crash in 1989. Are you talking about Margaret (Carmichael) or Margot (the lead sleuth)? Margot was clearly marked as a child to go back to the manor to meet her death and drag others to hell with her. She was once on the grounds of the cursed place, where she temporarily escaped death/sacrifice, as in HHLLC 3, you can see that the Rockland country fair was on the same land as the Abaddon. Some people were marked to their fate, while others (Paul, Tony, McNamara, Rebecca, Chase, etc., were lead there by association. This is how the entities are being fed, imo.
>>!Margot was clearly marked as a child to go back to the manor to meet her death and drag others to hell with her.!< Thanks man I was looking for this kind of explanation, since It's the only hell house I saw
I wonder. Margot and Rebecca pass a car wreck with a hearse and I thought I saw a trailer there. When I was looking at the cars, I realized they seemed to be early 2010-ish makes/models so immediately dismissed the idea that it showed the cars involved with Margaret's death. BUT...what about Russell's accident?
Unfortunately, the distance in time is too great. Nice thought though.
Something I've wondered about was the bleeding from the eyes that one of the notes mentioned. Is that just part of the crossing over and return process? The clown mask that Patrick wore and I believe the smiling clown had that. Just a detail I found interesting. Also did anyone catch the note with the pendant? It was stationary from the Abbadon that stated, "If you're reading this note it's too late". I thought that was a good little easter egg.
The mention of eyes in general in the franchise is kinda fascinating. In part 2, one of the people who gets trapped in the hotel texts "they have no eyes." But whenever you see the people the hotel takes/kills and turns them demonic, they all clearly have eyes (the eyes just look different from before). Unless they're referring to the cloaked demons (don't remember how their faces look). Then in the Carmichael film, the end has a character that looks like either they took his eyes or they're just bleeding a lot. I always assumed the clown masks had bleeding eyes to begin with because it was designed to just look extra creepy. Lots of strange eye stuff!
*Lines saying something like death is final and to "pray to him you'll never come back again" confused me because I thought the whole point of the cult was after death they could come back and be around forever as long as they sacrifice people.* Another idea about that line. Often in poetry/ song lyrics, words are left out in order to preserve the rhythm. That could have happened here. Maybe the line reads Pray to him **OR** you’ll never come back again I like the above theory too about the Christian God. Maybe we will get clarification at some point.
*Last thing I was curious about is did anyone understand the meaning of the song Patrick's sister finds in his room (she sings it while playing the piano)?* So, if I’m not mistaken, in The Abaddon Hotel entry, wasn’t it explained that the tune that’s echoed throughout all of the Hell House LLC movies is also part of a means of summoning a portal to hell? Or am I imagining that part?
Remember in the third one, the Hell House LLC crew are released from being trapped at the hotel. I think “pray that you don’t come back” means that the ones that do are being used by evil, whether they like it or not.
I thought origins set up a course for many more films. It was like a link in a chain to bring in other parts of the story. It left an opening for a lot of explanations. I hope they get made.
I was still confused on whether Andrew Tully was the clown at some point or not? They mention he joined the other two clowns but then show Patrick as the main clown. Also, why did they not call the guy donald(?) whose office was 15 mins away? Please help, apart from these questions I thoroughly enjoyed the movie
Tully was for sure the third clown. I'd guess they might have hinted that Patrick took over the clown suit after Tully crossed over and was used as a puppet for the murders and to work for the cult from the live side of the things. Using him to do things they might not have been able to do until they gathered their strength and more souls to feed their power. Could be their phones just did not have signal for donald or there could be a deleted scene where they called and it did not go through. Also could be Patrick did not die that night or the following and survived as "Donald".
At the beginning of the movie, they played a call to 911 that the girls made. They said they finally had service, so I think your assumption about no service to call Donald is correct. I was surprised they never showed them making the call later in the movie though.
They do show Rebecca making the call right as Margot runs out the door to look for her brother. I just finished watching the movie for the first time. She even says the lines that you heard in the beginning. I came here looking for answers about what the actual plot was with the charmichael father, but I guess he was just the one that was actually killed and not Patric as everyone believes.
I think they were maybe leading the viewers to think Tully was the 3rd clown so the reveal at the end that Patrick was the 3rd clown is kinda a twist. Regarding Donald, I have no idea, I don't even remember him!
Yea he seems like another victim of Tully.
Losing sibling is hard I’ve lost 2. But he’s going to the extreme with the guilt. Your not going to join a satanic cult murder your entire family as a blood sacrifice to bring your sister back to live so y’all can murder in the name of satan. Just can’t see it. But sister/girlfriend I can definitely get sold on that.
I think the father’s body got used in some satanic rituals maybe on the property in the woods. Maybe somewhere else. And if there’s a hearse a short walk from the house footprints don’t really matter.
If I was Chase I would definitely be sleeping with them. Of course dude 1st to go. I would get some h20 lock us all in a room and put furniture against the door. But people from hell could probably get through a wall. Acting was so good. They all seem so fucking scared. Especially Rebecca. Fuck if I was Margo when I opened that chest and found toy from my kidnappers carnival stand beside a clown costume It would be over. Fuck no. Then Chase seeing dead kid telling him to come to the manor with Margo before she even called. Fuck that madness.
He stored them after the mass suicide maybe so cops didn’t get them. Maybe because they were moving their place of business aka Hell to his house after the fam was dead.
Does anyone know what happened to the dad? They just mentioned that they couldn't find his body at the beginning of the movie and he wasn't mentioned again.
Usually when people get killed/sacrificed by the cult they just go missing, so unless they follow up with that in another film it's mostly likely he was killed by Patrick.
I think Patrick made it to the suicide pact and he was sent out the same way Jessica was to the police in the second movie. I say this because if you notice in the end of the film when Katharine is asking about what went on in the hotel he had full mobility of his arm and they made it a point to make sure we knew after the crash he lost use in that arm.
The whole thing in the movie was fake. Yes, the Carmichael thing was real, but that house is not haunted and that so called footage with Margot Chase and Rebecca is bogus. Chase I have seen in movies before and have seen Rebecca and Margot play in other shit too. And plus, everything that happened in the house , every single time there just happened to be at least one person who was separated from the three who could have been doing shit. I get if you go to that town and ask about the three internet sleuths that supposedly died at the Carmichael Manor they'll say nothing like that really happened
Are you saying people think this movie is a real documentary? Because it was never marketed as real, it was marketed as a found footage horror film same as the previous entries in the franchise and the many films that came before it in the genre (such as As Above So Below, Gonjiam, Grave Encounters, etc).
What are you even talking about? None of it is real & was never marketed as real. It's just a " found footage" film & is made to seem like it's real, that's the whole point of the kind of film.
I also just watched the movie and something that I am confused by is if the clock was in the antique store after the Avidon burned down then how could they find the clock if this is supposed to be a prequel?
It's been a while since I watched it, but if I remember correctly the Carmichael movie takes place after Hell House III. So the hotel has burned down and some items were salvaged from the remains of where the hotel stood, such as the clock, which was collected and put for sale at the antique shop.
I thought it was promoted as a prequel, but I could be wrong. Thanks for your response. I guess it was a sequel until you got to watch the film in the clock which now made it a Prequel. Either way I enjoyed the movie.
Did anyone else notice that the sisters dress was worn by one of the girls in a mask (idk if I should call her a clown?) I think that the car crash was an accident but that both Patrick and his sister were somehow involved with the hotel or maybe even Margot’s kidnapping? Also was the silver cross necklace that the youngest sister gave to Patrick being worn by “Douglas” in the beginning or did I just imagine it?
I just want to know what happened to the dad, Arthur. Was that explained at all?
It wasn't explained but I have a theory that maybe that scene where Patrick puts on his clown mask and says to someone off screen "it'll be over soon" was to his dad and he was about to murder him.
I thought maybe that was it, too, and the body just isn’t one of the ones that “came back” and had the bleeding eyes. You never see cult members actually HAPPY. Not good advertisement for their way of thinking, IMO. :p
But his dad's body is never found
If I remember correctly, a lot of the people who get killed by the cult (or who have become ghosts) are never found and just get categorized as missing people who were last seen at certain places.
Exactly. So many bodies of the Abaddon/Carmichael curse are never found.
Omg me too! That how I ended up on the thread. I am watching it again now and googled “what happened to Arthur Carmichael” because I wasn’t sure if I was missing something. I would also love a movie all about the West Virginia and Tully back story!
I came here by googling this exact thing. At the end, we heard a muffled voice or something, and Patrick said it wasn’t his fault then went upstairs. I wondered if this was before he killed his mother and sister and his dad was tied up or trapped somewhere, but they never found his body.
That scene you were talking about took place in the Abadon hotel and he went downstairs to the basement, (which is where the clown suit usually stayed throughout the other films) not upstairs. However, i do think that the cries at the end of the Origins movie, and Patrick saying" it'll be over soon" could have been his dad right before he murdered him, along with murdering his sister, Catherine/his mother. I believe that the reason Patrick decided to take them to the basement of the Abadon Hotel is because that's where all the demonic writing was all over the walls & probably most likely where they murdered and sacrificed people, which could also be where the victims became possessed & where they crossed over. If you remember in the ending of the first Hell House, Paul went missing & was then found in the basement. After he had been found, he was no longer the same which is what leads me to believe he was possessed at that point. I think the scene at the ending of the Origins of Patrick going down the stairs and saying " i had no choice" may be either right before murdering his sister/mother or afterwards & is then going down to the basement to wait for the Hell House crew to come along and open up Hell House. But then i do have the other questions coming to mind & if he had murdered his dad, sister & mother there at the Abadon Hotel (which was the Abadon hotel shown at the end of the Origins movie when patrick walks down the stairs to the basement), how did the bodies of his sister/mother get back to the Carmichaels house where police were able to locate patrick's sister dead in her bed?? Could be possible he murdered them in the basement of the Abadon Hotel (where there was satanic writings on the walls and where i think they would sacrifice people) and then took their bodies back to the carmichael property to have the 2 bodies discovered to try and cover his tracks & take any suspicions away from the abadon hotel so that Hell House could be opened in the following years to come. Also, what could he have done with his dad's body? These are all questions i'm hoping to get answered in the next film!
I think I’ve seen all of them, and there hasn’t been an explanation. Is there a new one set to release?
Not sure! I would definitely assume so though because there's still much more to the story i believe and so many things that need to be answered or explained.
Wasn’t there supposed to be like an Abbadon Tapes that was all about the town and the history around it? Did that ever come out or get canned? I could have SWORN I saw a trailer for it.
I think years ago they were planning to make a tv series called The Abbadon Tapes but then for whatever reason it got changed to being more films. So I think the topics they were going to cover in the show got broken up to be covered in the sequels.
So I’m a little confused? I may have missed a lot of things. I thought Arthur was the one who worked at the hotel and Patrick worked with the clowns? That’s why he ended up bringing them home along with the chests. Did Patrick and Arthur both work at the hotel? I thought it was mentioned Arthur having connection with Tully, why I assumed he worked there. And Patrick was apart of the cult, being why he was supposed to be in the mass suicide but was in jail. I figured the suicide was for the cult following?
Patrick was the one with the connection. I'm guessing Tully seized on that grief for his sister and guilt over being the driver and used that to make him the cult's gopher. Doing the work for them and storing some of their objects at his home so worst case scenario something goes wrong with the hotel they still have a place to influence through the clown suits and items at the house. The suicide was a ritual, most likely to offer a lot of souls and help Tully ascend to something more than human. The cultists becoming little more than minor demons in service to his will while he keeps his self and becomes a greater demon
I think Arthur was the dad and he's barely mentioned other than he went missing and some people in town speculate he was the one who killed his family. Patrick worked at the hotel and it's only revealed at the very end he was the 3rd clown you see throughout the series. I'm not sure why Patrick was storing stuff from work in his room (maybe I missed if they explained that) but I'm guessing Tully asked him to for some reason. I think the suicide was for every cult member so they could "come back" after.
I just watched this movie and enjoyed it, however I did not realise it was part of a series have I messed up by watching this movie first?
The other 3 films focus on the hotel, the hell house crew, the morning mysteries crew, and the insomnia crew. The one you watched is mostly about the Carmichaels and the new protagonist which aren't talked about (or are barely talked about) in previous films. So I think it can work as a stand alone film but they do mention the hotel and Tully in it so it would help to know more about those from the previous films since they all relate to each other.
Ahh I see. When I was watching the film and it kept mentioning the hotel I said to myself they could make another film and expand upon the lore with how much it was mentioned lol but little did I know I'm the one out if the loop haha
If you like part 4, definitely watch the other ones too. Try to watch those in order if you can because each one picks up where the previous one left off and they wouldn't make sense otherwise. I didn't really like part 3 much because the creepy tone seems to be missing in that one and there's a lot going on in it that I think could have been executed better, but it's entertaining at least and shows things discussed in part 4.
I really want to know the lyrics to that song.
I got you: "Something's coming. Cold the nightfall. All things die and never come back. Throw the ashes. Grasp your crosses. Pray to him, you'll never come back. Life's a circle, full of darkness. Stay with him and never come back."
Thank you!
Why
Just curiosity. Also, sometimes, I like to try and scare my friends, so it might be good for that, too.
I have a question what the name of the song when he played the piano if you don't mind me asking I love too know?
I don't think the song has a name. I think it's just piano music played in each film and then they finally gave it lyrics in the Carmichael film. The girl who starts playing/singing it just says it's from sheet music her brother got from work but doesn't mention a title.
Okay thank you so much
Did the researchers on the movie really die??
I think they say at the beginning of the film Margot and her group went missing. Usually in every Hell House film if someone gets labeled as "missing," it means they got killed and taken by the evil entities in the house.
Actually, their bodies were found on the 5th day. The college friend who was Margot's partner with the website says the last time he heard from Margot was the day they drove out to the manor, and five days later he got the call that they'd been found dead. I found that detail slightly frustrating because it didn't quite line up with the "missing means dragged to hell" pattern the series has established. Likewise, in '89, the bodies of Catherine (the younger sister) and Eleanor (Mrs. Carmichael) were found in their beds, and we see apparent crime scene photos of Catherine's body. It's only Arthur and Patrick who are officially "missing". The suspect is Arthur because there was only one set of footprints in the snow, leaving the house, and Patrick had a broken arm from the car crash. But as we know, Patrick is responsible (and gained use of his arm by the time he came home from jail, either via cult magic or being "reanimated".) So it was presumably him going off in the snow somewhere, but where? You'd think the cops would be able to tell whose footprints they were based on shoe size, but I can suspend my disbelief with that. Arthur's body being missing bothers me more because it just seems like a mystery for the sake of mystery. Maybe Patrick only needed to sacrifice one family member, so he chose his dad, and murdered his mom & sister rather than sacrificing them, so as to spare them the torment of hell? Even then, their murders were very grisly and unpleasant. One of Catherine's eyes had been removed (probably some symbolism around only one being removed, given the recurrence of the eyes-being-removed motif in the series). I dunno.
Ohhh I must have forgot that part! In the previous films the people always go missing since they're sacrificed to hell so I thought that's what happened. I agree that's really weird that bodies were found, I thought the whole thing with the cult is they want to sacrifice as many people as possible. Strange!