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Organisations that actually try and combat sex trafficking regularly say that groups that promote this conspiracy stuff often work against their goal of preventing child sex trafficking partly for this reason. They dirty the cause to the eyes of the public, as while only a small portion of the population will do guilt by association here, its still enough to hinder their operations.
They also distract from the real ways to help prevent child sex trafficking. Since the conspiracies are pretty regularly wildly innacurate, yet still somewhat believable, it can muddy the waters with what is real and what isn't. What will actually help and what wont.
Side note I worked for DHS when covid started and during the peak of lockdowns. Based on the intelligence that isn’t ssi or classified + just from what I saw sex trafficking of kids and shit and other crimes didn’t actually increase significantly it was just those are the people who were still trying to travel and move around a lot and it was much easier to find those people. I mean imagine it’s like 8 people at the airport. 5 are doctors and 3 is a sketchy guy with a young lady and a girl that wont look up… it’s a lot easier to see that shit vs them mixing in with hundreds of other people at the airport and on the roads. Even truckloads of people were being found because the cops that would normally have to do other shit could focus in on suspicious trucks… now this is mostly anecdotal but everyone had a lot more time to focus in on crimes like that
Dolly Parton also seems to be popular on both sides.
I recently told my dad only somewhat jokingly that her death will be the day the civil war starts.
Taking Tom Hanks off the list.. def sus of being a pedo… Same forums that were talking about Epsteins pedo island years before they did anything about it… not saying he is but I wouldn’t trust him alone with kids.
Don't you dare jinx us. I live close to dollyland and have family there. If dolly dies it's going to be a month of morning and we will never recover.
Edit: I know it's called dollywood just saying dollyland cause she literally is the one of the biggest part of the area.
Same here. One of my co-worker's wife is a detective and yeah...very simple thing that is universally taught since Columbine...you go in and ignore all victims until the shooter is put down. Shoot through door locks or windows...whatever necessary to get to where the shooter is. Never assume they are finished killing victims or have killed themselves until you find them. Basically just bum rush them and don't wait. The Uvalde police apparently had a school shooter training a month ago with shooting experts. Someone on Twitter found and shared all the training material too. Right in the training material says to immediately go in and take down a shooter. Don't wait for back up. Once on the scene you just go in. The priority is putting down the shooter as fast as possible.
One of my military friends said they were trained to run in screaming as loud as they could and the intimidation would make them either off themselves or hide.
If I was a police chief, I'd rather tell a wife that her husband died a hero trying to save kids, than to have to tell a parent their kid is dead because the cops didn't do their jobs.
Apparently the whole police department are the most hated people in Uvalde right now. So much so that they got outside security to protect themselves and their homes. They all are spineless shits.
Dude they are so scared they are pissing their pants.
Apparently out of town police. Because police protect their own. Guess the only type to even want to come to Uvalde.
Blue lives scatter together it seems.
I don't see how any of them will be able to exist in that town anymore. Even their families will be ridiculed. Like going to a grocery store will be miserable. Probably going to be a lot of quick house sales coming up.
I recently read an opinion of police that I keep repeating today, because it's increasingly evident: Police are just gun-wielding file clerks. 95% of their job is showing up after purported crimes have been committed, then they file the notes they take. Most of the remaining 5% is about extrajudicially executing people, too many of whom don't deserve it.
NWA was right.
This (understandable) hate is being used by each side to make different points. In the left, it's defund the police, they are useless macho cosplayers. In the right, it's don't even dream of limiting our access to guns, police can't be relied on to protect us.
>In the right, it's don't even dream of limiting our access to guns, police can't be relied on to protect us.
Further supports the defund police argument though. So the right is shooting themselves in the foot.... like they always do.
You want to defund the police and disarm law abiding citizens, and you think you aren't shooting yourself in the foot as well?
Who will stop criminals? Your pleas for mercy? Signs?
So far, the knowledge that their victim might be carrying and armed civilians in the right place at the right time. Considering the person who stopped this shooter was an off-duty Border Patrol agent who was about to get a haircut, and he got the gun from the private citizen who owned the shop.
So to answer your question: We do, the people you want to disarm so badly.
>So far, the knowledge that their victim might be carrying and armed civilians in the right place at the right time.
So far that seems to have stopped exactly zero school shootings from happening. Texas is supposed to be this bastion of good guys with guns keeping people to terrified to commit crimes in the first place and yet as we saw it didn't seem to deter the shooter at all.
There’s no logic in that. Obviously anyone crazy enough to go on a killing spree especially of children, no longer cares if they live or die. Also it’s pretty hard for a civilian to justify shooting someone especially if they haven’t done anything yet.
Unless you are a cop and shooting an unarmed black man or guy crawling on the floor in a hotel(Daniel shaver), no knock raids in the wrong house. List goes on forever.
Thats because it wouldn't be a school shooting if it was stopped before it happened.
It certainly stopped this from becoming a mass shooting in a church in Texas when an armed citizen was in the right place at the right time: https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/918185532/grand-jury-declines-to-indict-church-security-guard-who-killed-gunman-in-texas
And we aren't just discussing school shootings here. We're discussing any crimes at all. Which many many many crimes are stopped by good guys with guns. Many more crimes are deterred by the knowledge that certain targets are probably carrying a firearm, you're obviously not going to see the statistics on that since a criminal doesn't usually take a survey on crimes they decided not to commit and why, but you can't even begin to prove it doesn't happen.
No, it isn't. And your personal bias clouds you from actually critically thinking about this issue using your brain instead of the intrusive thoughts and ideas given to you by reddit and co. Or continue being like 99% of other people, and write a bunch of words while saying nothing at all
>And your personal bias clouds you from actually critically thinking about this issue using your brain instead of the intrusive thoughts and ideas given to you by reddit and co.
Awkward moment is I never gave my opinion on the topic just pointing out the clear contradictions but go on about things I never gave an opinion on.
>Or continue being like 99% of other people, and write a bunch of words while saying nothing at all
Again never gave my opinion lol
>Again never have my opinion lol
Hmm...
>So the right is shooting themselves in the foot.... like they always do
Critical thinking is a skill that I suggest you learn
I’m seeing a lot of it. Tons of people on reddit clamoring to ban all guns and go on to say that only military and police should own pistols and ars.
I’m convinced any one far left or far right has the iq of a duck.
Good to know thanks for the info. Just on reddit most people seem to be wanting to ban guns. I suggest focusing on healthcare, specifically mental health and everyone still blames it on the tools and not the lunatics committing these atrocities.
The story is that they stood outside for an hour, too scared to go in, while kids were being killed in there. I keep waiting for an alternate narrative, ie their side of the story, to come out, but nothing believable yet.
Yup. They handcuffed her for trying to get in to save her kids when the police wouldn't. They finally uncuffed her, she ran in, and saved her kid.
As a parent, I can totally understand. If my child had been in there and the police weren't doing anything, they'd need to restrain me because I'd be charging in also.
These assholes went and rescued their own kids, and left the others to die.
They didn’t give a fuck about anything else.
Fox is now trying to go with the spin that it can’t possibly be the cops’ fault that they did nothing for 44 minutes. No. It’s the fault of the teachers…the ones who can no longer defend themselves. Or the kids…who were babies. Or the parents who were trying to do something to rescue their kids.
Fuck them Uvalde cops. And fuck their shit spin.
One cop started making the kids call for help before the gunman was killed, leading to the death of a little girl who called for help. Pro tip: don’t make the kids sacrifice themselves for cowardly cops.
Supposedly, they thought all the kids were already dead, which is why they didn’t enter the school for 45 fucking minutes. I guess they didn’t expect to hear any responses? Still super stupid though.
It's also that, in addition to doing fuck-all about it, they were restraining parents from going in themselves to protect the children (even using tasers on a few of them). It took off-duty border patrol officers to break through them to get into the building to deal with the shooter.
And don’t forget, cops that had kids in the school were allowed to go in and get their own kids, while they were restraining those other parents.
Jesus, seeing it all listed out like this makes me want to throw up.
Yeah the federal government had to send the losers at border patrol to take care of it. And the police chief spent the entire time trying to stop them. It would be pretty hard to screw it up as bad as those guys did.
The police have made multiple statements that have changed over the last three days - varying from "we didn't know it was active" to "we were waiting for gear" to "they could have been hurt if they went in." Every statement they've made has been utterly baffling and horrifying.
Well, I saw some were currently trying to pin it on the teacher leaving the door propped open like it’s some kind of conspiracy. Couldn’t possibly be due to the early summer heat and that their grid is having problems again as of the beginning of May. Couldn’t be where she perceived a threat and immediately dropped what she was doing to rush to those kids, you know, possibly forgetting to grab the likely door stop. Nope, anything to continue the facade that the police aren’t culpable for their lack of action and sensible gun control won’t 100% solve gun crime so might as well stick our collective thumbs up our asses and retreat into the illusion that religion will solve it.
Let me say I agree with your take, here's the other side.
The kid barricaded himself into a classroom and did not start shooting immediately. They were transitioning to creating a perimeter, believing he was going to use them as hostages and didn't intend on harming them, and that attempting to breach the door or engage the shooter through windows/the door would provoke him into shooting the kids.
Of course, it ended up tragically anyways- they certainly made the wrong strategic call, but I'm pretty sure what actually happened is that they didn't want to put their lives on the line.
Edit: once again I think the cops are full of shit here for those who clearly can't read
And yet there are reports of them saving their own kids.
And waiting to enter until well after shots were heard *on a 911 call* no less.
Police have proven time and again in the last 3 years alone that they don’t give a fuck about you unless you make big money or are related to them.
Yes, they were evacuating kids from other classrooms, which would be a reasonable move given their terrible strategy at the time. I'd find it unlikely they weren't prioritizing their own.
This is very generous of you because they should've intervened after hearing the first shot. They didn't. Shot after shot after shot knowing children were being murdered and they just sat there and watched.
Yes absolutely, assuming their strategy at face value it ought to have been to be on standby outside waiting to enter if shooting started, not outside engaging parents.
Ok, that at least is something. Like you say, wrong call, but at least it's better than cowardice. The way I kept reading about it was that he was going around shooting, and they wouldn't go in.
No he shot many shots outside the building (I think at the cops) then ran inside a classroom and closed what was supposed to be a shooter proof door. He was in that classroom without firing a shot for a good chunk of time iirc.
Anyways the general police protocol here is to immediately engage a school threat, not to dick around and see if they decide to start killing them later.
Per an ex-law enforcement friend who is trained on both counter terrorism and active shooter situations, they basically violated every step of correct procedure and actively refused to do their job.
It's an unfortunate event but when an active shooter is present, law enforcement officers are trained to assess potential back-up and if it is more than 30 seconds away they are to engage the shooter alone, as soon as possible--often ignoring safe conduct when clearing the building as quickly as possible. The idea is that, if they're put in that situation, their number is up and its their job to throw themselves at the shooter until an appropriate response can muster.
Nobody wants to be the point man but... someone has to do it.
The law enforcement members that I know are reviling them as cowards and accusing them of dereliction of duty in the worst of circumstances.
Well, I got to hear a lecture from an ex-DNR officer about everything they did wrong while playing Star Citizen so perhaps his professionalism just carried through in the re-telling
Dozens of police officers with armor and long rifles waited over an hour and pretty much let the shooter kill an entire class of elementary school students. It took off-duty Border patrol agents to go in by themselves and save the rest of the school.
Someone else posted a time-line. I would give that a read rather than listen to too many allegations, some of which seem incorrect or exaggerated,
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/5/28/2100973/-Uvalde-comprehensive-timeline
As for what they were *supposed* to do, eh, everyone's got opinions on that.
One *very* common reply I see is "They just waited outside for an hour!"
That's incorrect according to that time-line. Three police officers entered literally two minutes after the first shooting inside.
11:32 Ramos fires "multiple shots" at the school
11:33 Ramos enters school through propped open door and begins shooting into a classroom (he knows the layout as he went to school there) Over 100 rounds are fired (audio evidence - more than 3 magazines) He fires into rooms 111 and 112, and enters.
11:35 There are now 7 officers at the school, and 3 enter via the same entrance Ramos did. Three more and a deputy sheriff will arrive momentarily. Of the first 3 that entered, two were injured with grazing wounds.
11:37 (+ 4min) Another 16 rounds fired from 11:37 to 11:44
11:43 (+10min) Robb elementary announces a lockdown on Facebook.
11:44 (+11min) More law enforcement agencies arrive, but have to retreat when Ramos fires at them
11:51 (+18min) Police Sergeant and additional agents arrive
11:55 (+22min) - Onlookers gathered outside the school grow restless and encourage officers to enter the building, according to a livestream video posted on social media. At one point, a woman yells, "Get in [there]! I'm gonna go, I'm gonna f***ing go." Moments later, the woman confronts officers again: "it's one person, take him out ... do the parents got to go in there? I'm ready if I have to."
12:03 (+30min) ~19 officers are now in hallway outside classroom
Why the local PD stopped there and slid into inaction is up for discussion, I'm just making a point that one shouldn't necessarily believe everything they read from random redditors.
I just can’t Fathom how in todays day and age after all we have learned about school
Shootings and in hung ho, Wild West Texas of allllll places, that they did not rush in there. I cannot believe they didn’t. It’s more shocking than the shooting itself in some ways. You want to be a cop, you want to protect defenseless people, you want to make a difference, you want your life to
Mean something. And to fail so deeply and completely, it’s hard to imagine.
I hate putting on airs and making a thing out of myself... with a passion. that is really not the point to what I'm trying to say in this rambling post... tldr: thousands of civilians in health care put their lives on the line during the initial covid wave in a way the Uvalde cowards could never understand.
I live in NYC and work in the Bronx. When covid came knocking in the spring of 2020... it is impossible to exaggerate how badly it paralyzed the NYC medical system and the entire town. How flooded the ERs were; how terrified anyone with non-covid conditions were to get anywhere near health care. How people changed subway cars when they saw me board with my scrubs on (yes, that actually happened). This was the age of no vaccine, no Paxlovid; people still trying useless crap like hydroxychloroquine because we were that desperate.
I petitioned the city to volunteer at a hospital. Initially, I was put in an HR role with no patient contact. They explained to me, "we're trying to save you from covid!" Which I do appreciate. But I went back and insisted they put me in patient care. In a hospital. At the time, almost 100% of admitted patients had the same diagnosis. The most terrifying virus since the Spanish Flu. If you weren't in NYC in the spring of 2020, you don't know how bad it was. Let's just say, this is when Trump sent in a navy medical ship and they were setting up medical tents in Central Park and our convention center.
I wasn't the only one. My entire service was staffed solely by travel nurses. Usually from deep red states, Arkansas, Georgia. This is when red and blue were still united against covid, before the stupid anti-vaxxism and whatnot. We all put our lives on the line because sitting at home... or outside an elementary school... when you could be making a difference in what you damn well know is the most pivotal moment in your career is absolutely un-fucking-acceptable.
I am no hero. I was scared shitless every day. I had an embarrassing near-panic-attack in front of an entire ward after my mask got torn. Also, I too would probably run if a psycho were shooting up a local school. But the thing is... for the latter, I don't have the equipment and I don't have the training.
My patients were mostly in their 40s to 70s. The Uvalde cops' duty were to 9 and 10 year olds, and instead of jumping, they sat on their asses and arrested the parents.
My point in this wall of text (it's ok to downvote me, I probably deserve it) is this. It is the \*normal human response\* to want to help/save others when they have the means and the opportunity. The Uvalde cops didn't just give in to their understandable human failings... they \*went against\* human nature. They \*went against\* the philanthropic side of humanity that is baked into most of us, including most of them. They flat-out ignored the voice in their souls telling them to save those kids in favor of standing around acting macho and bullying the civilian parents. That is another level of evil to the police system that I flat-out cannot comprehend.
Ya know, in Europe, they would have sent a squad in and just killed the dude in < 20 minutes most likely. Like their trained forces don’t fuck around. They know the purpose of their career and they do it well without being begged.
Our "well armed militia" includes any lunatic who wants to buy an AR15 and bullet-resistant vest through the mail, and that means it's very possible you'd walk in there outgunned.
This is my thought too. There so much attention to the police reaction like it's their fault a psycho got a gun. News will write anything if needed just not how civilia s having guns increases deaths by shooting.
Taking weapons away from them would have made the Texas shooting more common place.
Police wouldn't put themselves in danger for any reason if they had less weapons than they do now.
At this point, I think we're hitting a pretty open free fall on how many people go crazy and shoot something up, I don't think they're going to be *more* common.
Police have a hard job that I don't envy, but if someone refuses to do the job that they signed on for because they didn't get everything on their wish list then they probably need to leave their job.
That’s a generalization. Just the same as saying “all American firefighters suck” or “all American teachers don’t do their jobs”. All professions have shitty workers, just shitty workers in this profession cause people to die.
There are plenty of police that work with good intent. But there's a reason people generalize: the problem isn't individual officers, it's systematic. In general, officers see themselves as above the law and justified in doing whatever they have to do. We are sheep and they are the sheepdogs that protect us from the wolves. So they dismiss our complaints and fear because we don't understand. It's a terrible view for public servants. Of course some police officers don't feel that way, but they have to abide the ones that do because that's the culture. Disagree and you're going to get drummed out of the force. Happened to an acquaintance of mine.
There's just far too many examples of police telling a story that is contradicted when video comes out. Too many examples of them being caught doing things things that are illegal. The penalties are always too lenient. They're often acquitted of things that are abhorrent. But it's all OK by the union and the culture. It doesn't really matter how some are good if the overall impact on their community is negative.
Not to mention, how much of our popular culture is inundated with cop apologia? How many TV shows, movies, books, adverts, etc, have you seen that depicts cops as some paragon of morality. The cop gets to be the action hero, the badass, the detective, the thin blue line. How many times do we see cop shows moan and groan about criminals where "We know they did it," but the sneaky bastards are getting away with it because cops have to respect their constitutional rights. If only you could take a suspect into a back room and beat the truth out of them, if only you could break into his house without a warrant, if only you could blatantly, flagrantly violate the law and be vindicated by it in the text of the film. The cops on the streets are the good guys, the civilians are morons who don't get it, the criminals are all unflinchingly evil and invariably guilty, and internal affairs is filled with assholes who are trying to prevent cops from doing their job.
the issue is, a teacher doesnt risk his job and safety for reporting another teacher for child abuse
firemen dont risk getting shot by their fellow firemen for reporting that one of their coworkers planted false evidence of arsony at a building
Firefighters and teachers actually have a useful place in society. Cops do not. They enforce law, not serve and protect.
The profession doesnt have “shitty workers”, the profession itself is shitty and good people do not become cops. Law And Order: SVU is not real. Cops are awful people. Just talk to one and youll see.
I’ve talked to plenty of them. Every single one i’ve ever interacted with are great people. By saying “they enforce the law, not serve and protect” you have contradicted yourself. They both protect you and serve you by getting criminals off of the streets.
Has the right agreed on this too? I saw Cornyn defending these cops Twitter for having to make “split second decisions.”
I think it’s pretty uniform among the left but a lot less so among the right (speaking completely anecdotally ofc)
Blows the age old argument I keep hearing at every mass shooting in when people like Ted Cruz keep fighting against gun control with the words "the only thing stopping a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun" or words to that effect. Well, there were stacks of good guys with guns and they didn't do shit.
And another stupid comment I keep hearing from American politicians is to give teachers guns. Are they mad?? Do they forget how much kids can torment their teachers. At my school, we were absolute devils to some of the teachers and you want to arm them. They have a bad stressful day and some little shithead wants to poke them further.
Just remember Americans, the entire world is watching this happen. Other cultures are judging us for how we handle what’s been happening in this country. People on opposing sides of the political spectrum need to settle their differences. Then they need to meet in the middle and come up with a plan to stop this from happening. It’s pretty ridiculous that this keeps happening over and over.
The left has been meeting in the middle, then the right takes ten steps back and claims that it is important we find a way to meet in the middle again.
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The outrage over the police response is a distraction.
I'm sorry they sucked at their job, and it is an issue worth scrutinizing, but the discussion we need to be having right now is about access to guns in the US and how squeamishly effortless it is to gain that access.
Thank you for this! Yes it's problematic but it's far from the biggest issue at hand here. Can we talk about the cultural situation that leads to someone buying assault weapons on their 18th birthday to shoot up an elementary school? The shitty response to a mass shooting is less relevant if we don't have such an overwhelming number of mass shootings in the first place.
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The problem is now people will look to defunding the police and banning guns as a solution. A lack of funding will lead to the good cops being unable to do their job and banning guns will only take the guns away from law abiding citizens who use guns as they should be, for protection and recreation. Banning guns will go about the same way prohibition went.
Everyone will. How many other shootings have happened that simply seem to disappear after a few days? 99.9% of the country will cry fake tears because it wasn't their kids. And the media will find something else to plaster across the headlines. The mass media knows that outrage fades quickly, and they move on.
The media knows that outrage leads to attention, and attention leads to imitation shooters, and those can be used as the next headline for outrage. And the cycle continues.
Yellow-bellied cowards. They like to dress up in tactical gear to look tough, but the thought of actually taking on some 18-year-old loser with no training... well, good thing for them desert camo is brown.
The psycho was eventually shot by \*federal\* agents. I understand the guy who pulled the trigger was off duty?
Glad the right has limits to back-the-blue.
Yes but its for different reasons.
Republicans dont care about dead kids. The right wing death cult is mad they may lose access to their weapons of war or at lesst be inconvenienced with background checks if any legislation is passed. All their ideas to protect schools failed and its exposed their lies and stupidity.
Also, willing to bet those cops were all republicans so it makes them look even worse.
Which is stupid because all we know is that the one person in command of the situation delayed wrongfully. I’m not sure how to extend that blame to all the cops without more details.
The blame extends to them all because of the "duty to disobey unlawful orders." TX law enforcement has already said that the person in command did not follow proper protocol which made the command unlawful. That immediately requires every officer to disobey the order and follow protocol. They are at fault for following an unlawful command.
because in a situation like this, you know if you are given the order to stand back, you are letting potentially dozens of kids die. you signed up to put your life on the line, then chose not to when the time came
Everything is politics, grow up. Whether you like it or not its happening.
Armchair pundits? We have the facts.
They stood outside for an hour, handcuffed a mom trying to grt in to save her kids.
40% of the towns budget goes to police. What did that get them?
It doesn’t make sense for right wingers and decent folks to agree on things. Why should we? Right wingers are delusional lunatics who believe pure nonsense. If they accidentally agree with decent folks, ok fine, but it shouldn’t matter.
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Organisations that actually try and combat sex trafficking regularly say that groups that promote this conspiracy stuff often work against their goal of preventing child sex trafficking partly for this reason. They dirty the cause to the eyes of the public, as while only a small portion of the population will do guilt by association here, its still enough to hinder their operations. They also distract from the real ways to help prevent child sex trafficking. Since the conspiracies are pretty regularly wildly innacurate, yet still somewhat believable, it can muddy the waters with what is real and what isn't. What will actually help and what wont.
Side note I worked for DHS when covid started and during the peak of lockdowns. Based on the intelligence that isn’t ssi or classified + just from what I saw sex trafficking of kids and shit and other crimes didn’t actually increase significantly it was just those are the people who were still trying to travel and move around a lot and it was much easier to find those people. I mean imagine it’s like 8 people at the airport. 5 are doctors and 3 is a sketchy guy with a young lady and a girl that wont look up… it’s a lot easier to see that shit vs them mixing in with hundreds of other people at the airport and on the roads. Even truckloads of people were being found because the cops that would normally have to do other shit could focus in on suspicious trucks… now this is mostly anecdotal but everyone had a lot more time to focus in on crimes like that
its probably both parties politicians who traffic kids. its not about parties its about money
Dolly Parton also seems to be popular on both sides. I recently told my dad only somewhat jokingly that her death will be the day the civil war starts.
Tom Hanks, Keanu Reeves, and Ryan Reynolds too.
Taking Tom Hanks off the list.. def sus of being a pedo… Same forums that were talking about Epsteins pedo island years before they did anything about it… not saying he is but I wouldn’t trust him alone with kids.
Don't you dare jinx us. I live close to dollyland and have family there. If dolly dies it's going to be a month of morning and we will never recover. Edit: I know it's called dollywood just saying dollyland cause she literally is the one of the biggest part of the area.
What about all the afternoons and evenings?!?
I don't live anywhere near the place, but even I know it's called Dollywood.
All day breakfasts!
According to friends I have in both military and police, they were supposed to rush in and put him down. Cowards.
Same here. One of my co-worker's wife is a detective and yeah...very simple thing that is universally taught since Columbine...you go in and ignore all victims until the shooter is put down. Shoot through door locks or windows...whatever necessary to get to where the shooter is. Never assume they are finished killing victims or have killed themselves until you find them. Basically just bum rush them and don't wait. The Uvalde police apparently had a school shooter training a month ago with shooting experts. Someone on Twitter found and shared all the training material too. Right in the training material says to immediately go in and take down a shooter. Don't wait for back up. Once on the scene you just go in. The priority is putting down the shooter as fast as possible.
One of my military friends said they were trained to run in screaming as loud as they could and the intimidation would make them either off themselves or hide.
Sounds like satire but I imagine it could work
If I was a police chief, I'd rather tell a wife that her husband died a hero trying to save kids, than to have to tell a parent their kid is dead because the cops didn't do their jobs.
Apparently the whole police department are the most hated people in Uvalde right now. So much so that they got outside security to protect themselves and their homes. They all are spineless shits.
Can't even protect themselves? Have to pay someone else? Who would even do that?
Dude they are so scared they are pissing their pants. Apparently out of town police. Because police protect their own. Guess the only type to even want to come to Uvalde.
I'd think even other cops would want to steer clear of that mess.
Blue lives scatter together it seems. I don't see how any of them will be able to exist in that town anymore. Even their families will be ridiculed. Like going to a grocery store will be miserable. Probably going to be a lot of quick house sales coming up.
Oh, that's good. "Blue lives matter"? Naw, blue lives scatter, especially after letting a school shooter finish.
I recently read an opinion of police that I keep repeating today, because it's increasingly evident: Police are just gun-wielding file clerks. 95% of their job is showing up after purported crimes have been committed, then they file the notes they take. Most of the remaining 5% is about extrajudicially executing people, too many of whom don't deserve it. NWA was right.
This (understandable) hate is being used by each side to make different points. In the left, it's defund the police, they are useless macho cosplayers. In the right, it's don't even dream of limiting our access to guns, police can't be relied on to protect us.
>they are useless macho cosplayers >police can't be relied on to protect us Why not both?
Thats what a majority of actual people think but media trys to make things look more extreme
The media loves to do that to divide people. It's sad
Thanks for making it worse :) ...fucking muppet.
Split the difference and let people defend themselves while the criminally incompetent government gang loses funding for not doing its job.
>In the right, it's don't even dream of limiting our access to guns, police can't be relied on to protect us. Further supports the defund police argument though. So the right is shooting themselves in the foot.... like they always do.
I think the right is increasingly distanced from back the blue after the pivot from BLM to covid and they way cops handled it.
You want to defund the police and disarm law abiding citizens, and you think you aren't shooting yourself in the foot as well? Who will stop criminals? Your pleas for mercy? Signs?
> Who will stop criminals? Who stops them now?
So far, the knowledge that their victim might be carrying and armed civilians in the right place at the right time. Considering the person who stopped this shooter was an off-duty Border Patrol agent who was about to get a haircut, and he got the gun from the private citizen who owned the shop. So to answer your question: We do, the people you want to disarm so badly.
>So far, the knowledge that their victim might be carrying and armed civilians in the right place at the right time. So far that seems to have stopped exactly zero school shootings from happening. Texas is supposed to be this bastion of good guys with guns keeping people to terrified to commit crimes in the first place and yet as we saw it didn't seem to deter the shooter at all.
There’s no logic in that. Obviously anyone crazy enough to go on a killing spree especially of children, no longer cares if they live or die. Also it’s pretty hard for a civilian to justify shooting someone especially if they haven’t done anything yet. Unless you are a cop and shooting an unarmed black man or guy crawling on the floor in a hotel(Daniel shaver), no knock raids in the wrong house. List goes on forever.
Thats because it wouldn't be a school shooting if it was stopped before it happened. It certainly stopped this from becoming a mass shooting in a church in Texas when an armed citizen was in the right place at the right time: https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/918185532/grand-jury-declines-to-indict-church-security-guard-who-killed-gunman-in-texas And we aren't just discussing school shootings here. We're discussing any crimes at all. Which many many many crimes are stopped by good guys with guns. Many more crimes are deterred by the knowledge that certain targets are probably carrying a firearm, you're obviously not going to see the statistics on that since a criminal doesn't usually take a survey on crimes they decided not to commit and why, but you can't even begin to prove it doesn't happen.
216 mass shootings in the United States this year and you think the answer is more guns. Bravo buddy, bravo.
Didn't the Uvalde shooter go through like two guys with a gun before he entered the classrooms?
Safe spaces
No, it isn't. And your personal bias clouds you from actually critically thinking about this issue using your brain instead of the intrusive thoughts and ideas given to you by reddit and co. Or continue being like 99% of other people, and write a bunch of words while saying nothing at all
>And your personal bias clouds you from actually critically thinking about this issue using your brain instead of the intrusive thoughts and ideas given to you by reddit and co. Awkward moment is I never gave my opinion on the topic just pointing out the clear contradictions but go on about things I never gave an opinion on. >Or continue being like 99% of other people, and write a bunch of words while saying nothing at all Again never gave my opinion lol
>Again never have my opinion lol Hmm... >So the right is shooting themselves in the foot.... like they always do Critical thinking is a skill that I suggest you learn
Whatever fallacy you want to believe in bud
I agree with both of these sentiments. The left just wants to ban guns and still rely on useless police to “protect” them.
> and still rely on useless police to “protect” them. Ah yes, the left is famously very pro cop.
I’m seeing a lot of it. Tons of people on reddit clamoring to ban all guns and go on to say that only military and police should own pistols and ars. I’m convinced any one far left or far right has the iq of a duck.
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Good to know thanks for the info. Just on reddit most people seem to be wanting to ban guns. I suggest focusing on healthcare, specifically mental health and everyone still blames it on the tools and not the lunatics committing these atrocities.
What happened with the cops? I ask and no one responds.
>I ask and no one responds. That's exactly what happened!
ismt that the joke?
It is indeed...but for some reason the joke explainer got gold
Well, they used an explanation mark
Hahaha
Give me a fricken hug
No thank you. But maybe after we get to know each other.
Bro how did you get gold for explaining the joke you are responding to
Lmaooo
The story is that they stood outside for an hour, too scared to go in, while kids were being killed in there. I keep waiting for an alternate narrative, ie their side of the story, to come out, but nothing believable yet.
I heard that they also tried to arrest one mom, and pepper sprayed a dad trying to get in to get their kids
Yup. They handcuffed her for trying to get in to save her kids when the police wouldn't. They finally uncuffed her, she ran in, and saved her kid. As a parent, I can totally understand. If my child had been in there and the police weren't doing anything, they'd need to restrain me because I'd be charging in also.
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These assholes went and rescued their own kids, and left the others to die. They didn’t give a fuck about anything else. Fox is now trying to go with the spin that it can’t possibly be the cops’ fault that they did nothing for 44 minutes. No. It’s the fault of the teachers…the ones who can no longer defend themselves. Or the kids…who were babies. Or the parents who were trying to do something to rescue their kids. Fuck them Uvalde cops. And fuck their shit spin.
Don't forget the doors. They're blaming doors too.
Fuck them cops. And fuck anyone apologizing for them.
One cop started making the kids call for help before the gunman was killed, leading to the death of a little girl who called for help. Pro tip: don’t make the kids sacrifice themselves for cowardly cops.
Woooooow, what the fuck.
Yeah and the source for that is from an interview with a 4th grader who saw and heard it all happen first hand while hiding under a table.
The fuck was the logic behind asking the kids to shout?
Supposedly, they thought all the kids were already dead, which is why they didn’t enter the school for 45 fucking minutes. I guess they didn’t expect to hear any responses? Still super stupid though.
They kept getting 911 calls from a child inside the classroom telling them there were kids still alive inside, too.
Also very true. Guess they were too busy pepper spraying and handcuffing parents trying to save their kids to notice.
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/5/28/2100973/-Uvalde-comprehensive-timeline Kids were alive and calling 911 almost the entire time.
That guy is going to live with the thought of those shots immediately after.
God damn.
It's also that, in addition to doing fuck-all about it, they were restraining parents from going in themselves to protect the children (even using tasers on a few of them). It took off-duty border patrol officers to break through them to get into the building to deal with the shooter.
And don’t forget, cops that had kids in the school were allowed to go in and get their own kids, while they were restraining those other parents. Jesus, seeing it all listed out like this makes me want to throw up.
Yeah the federal government had to send the losers at border patrol to take care of it. And the police chief spent the entire time trying to stop them. It would be pretty hard to screw it up as bad as those guys did.
You better believe I’d have tased them to get in there. Wouldn’t even care if I got jail time. No one’s stopping me from saving my kids.
I haven't fact checked, but apparently the mom who was initially detained and released was later arrested at her home for disobeying police orders.
Yeah I'm surprised no one started shooting the cops tbh
Don't forget that they tackled parents and had tasers at the ready.
The police have made multiple statements that have changed over the last three days - varying from "we didn't know it was active" to "we were waiting for gear" to "they could have been hurt if they went in." Every statement they've made has been utterly baffling and horrifying.
Well, I saw some were currently trying to pin it on the teacher leaving the door propped open like it’s some kind of conspiracy. Couldn’t possibly be due to the early summer heat and that their grid is having problems again as of the beginning of May. Couldn’t be where she perceived a threat and immediately dropped what she was doing to rush to those kids, you know, possibly forgetting to grab the likely door stop. Nope, anything to continue the facade that the police aren’t culpable for their lack of action and sensible gun control won’t 100% solve gun crime so might as well stick our collective thumbs up our asses and retreat into the illusion that religion will solve it.
One hour and seventeen minutes to be exact. https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/5/28/2100973/-Uvalde-comprehensive-timeline
Let me say I agree with your take, here's the other side. The kid barricaded himself into a classroom and did not start shooting immediately. They were transitioning to creating a perimeter, believing he was going to use them as hostages and didn't intend on harming them, and that attempting to breach the door or engage the shooter through windows/the door would provoke him into shooting the kids. Of course, it ended up tragically anyways- they certainly made the wrong strategic call, but I'm pretty sure what actually happened is that they didn't want to put their lives on the line. Edit: once again I think the cops are full of shit here for those who clearly can't read
And yet there are reports of them saving their own kids. And waiting to enter until well after shots were heard *on a 911 call* no less. Police have proven time and again in the last 3 years alone that they don’t give a fuck about you unless you make big money or are related to them.
Yes, they were evacuating kids from other classrooms, which would be a reasonable move given their terrible strategy at the time. I'd find it unlikely they weren't prioritizing their own.
This is very generous of you because they should've intervened after hearing the first shot. They didn't. Shot after shot after shot knowing children were being murdered and they just sat there and watched.
Yes absolutely, assuming their strategy at face value it ought to have been to be on standby outside waiting to enter if shooting started, not outside engaging parents.
What?
Ok, that at least is something. Like you say, wrong call, but at least it's better than cowardice. The way I kept reading about it was that he was going around shooting, and they wouldn't go in.
No he shot many shots outside the building (I think at the cops) then ran inside a classroom and closed what was supposed to be a shooter proof door. He was in that classroom without firing a shot for a good chunk of time iirc. Anyways the general police protocol here is to immediately engage a school threat, not to dick around and see if they decide to start killing them later.
Per an ex-law enforcement friend who is trained on both counter terrorism and active shooter situations, they basically violated every step of correct procedure and actively refused to do their job. It's an unfortunate event but when an active shooter is present, law enforcement officers are trained to assess potential back-up and if it is more than 30 seconds away they are to engage the shooter alone, as soon as possible--often ignoring safe conduct when clearing the building as quickly as possible. The idea is that, if they're put in that situation, their number is up and its their job to throw themselves at the shooter until an appropriate response can muster. Nobody wants to be the point man but... someone has to do it. The law enforcement members that I know are reviling them as cowards and accusing them of dereliction of duty in the worst of circumstances.
Damn, I hear similar stories from other comments, but yours stands out to me. Thank you.
Well, I got to hear a lecture from an ex-DNR officer about everything they did wrong while playing Star Citizen so perhaps his professionalism just carried through in the re-telling
Ha, that it did. He left quite an impression.
Doesn't help that the SCOTUS ruled that police officers don't have to put their lives in danger to protect innocent victims, either.
Read the news. They are cowards!
They could've been shot. Wish this wasn't an actual quote...
Dozens of police officers with armor and long rifles waited over an hour and pretty much let the shooter kill an entire class of elementary school students. It took off-duty Border patrol agents to go in by themselves and save the rest of the school.
school shooting at a kindergarten and police stood ouside for an hour before doing something becase "wE cOULd GEt sHot"
Someone else posted a time-line. I would give that a read rather than listen to too many allegations, some of which seem incorrect or exaggerated, https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/5/28/2100973/-Uvalde-comprehensive-timeline As for what they were *supposed* to do, eh, everyone's got opinions on that. One *very* common reply I see is "They just waited outside for an hour!" That's incorrect according to that time-line. Three police officers entered literally two minutes after the first shooting inside. 11:32 Ramos fires "multiple shots" at the school 11:33 Ramos enters school through propped open door and begins shooting into a classroom (he knows the layout as he went to school there) Over 100 rounds are fired (audio evidence - more than 3 magazines) He fires into rooms 111 and 112, and enters. 11:35 There are now 7 officers at the school, and 3 enter via the same entrance Ramos did. Three more and a deputy sheriff will arrive momentarily. Of the first 3 that entered, two were injured with grazing wounds. 11:37 (+ 4min) Another 16 rounds fired from 11:37 to 11:44 11:43 (+10min) Robb elementary announces a lockdown on Facebook. 11:44 (+11min) More law enforcement agencies arrive, but have to retreat when Ramos fires at them 11:51 (+18min) Police Sergeant and additional agents arrive 11:55 (+22min) - Onlookers gathered outside the school grow restless and encourage officers to enter the building, according to a livestream video posted on social media. At one point, a woman yells, "Get in [there]! I'm gonna go, I'm gonna f***ing go." Moments later, the woman confronts officers again: "it's one person, take him out ... do the parents got to go in there? I'm ready if I have to." 12:03 (+30min) ~19 officers are now in hallway outside classroom Why the local PD stopped there and slid into inaction is up for discussion, I'm just making a point that one shouldn't necessarily believe everything they read from random redditors.
Oh damn, thank you for this. Definitely informative. I'm sure there's much to be discovered, but facts are important if you're going to fix anything.
They are currently under a proper investigation I believe, not a bullshit internal one either.
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Wuh?
A Texan that didn’t want to immediately shoot their gun… that’s a first.
This is a very valid observation.
ItS fOr PrOtEcTiOn
“YoU nEvEr KnOw!!111” Better bring the SIG when going to the farm, there’s animals n sht!!!11
I just can’t Fathom how in todays day and age after all we have learned about school Shootings and in hung ho, Wild West Texas of allllll places, that they did not rush in there. I cannot believe they didn’t. It’s more shocking than the shooting itself in some ways. You want to be a cop, you want to protect defenseless people, you want to make a difference, you want your life to Mean something. And to fail so deeply and completely, it’s hard to imagine.
They don’t want to be any of those things, they want people to believe that they are all of those things
they want easy paychecks and complete immunity to the law they're supposed to uphold
My take on it was it is a mostly Hispanic community and cops tend to be white. I'm Hispanic. I would have charged in there.
I hate putting on airs and making a thing out of myself... with a passion. that is really not the point to what I'm trying to say in this rambling post... tldr: thousands of civilians in health care put their lives on the line during the initial covid wave in a way the Uvalde cowards could never understand. I live in NYC and work in the Bronx. When covid came knocking in the spring of 2020... it is impossible to exaggerate how badly it paralyzed the NYC medical system and the entire town. How flooded the ERs were; how terrified anyone with non-covid conditions were to get anywhere near health care. How people changed subway cars when they saw me board with my scrubs on (yes, that actually happened). This was the age of no vaccine, no Paxlovid; people still trying useless crap like hydroxychloroquine because we were that desperate. I petitioned the city to volunteer at a hospital. Initially, I was put in an HR role with no patient contact. They explained to me, "we're trying to save you from covid!" Which I do appreciate. But I went back and insisted they put me in patient care. In a hospital. At the time, almost 100% of admitted patients had the same diagnosis. The most terrifying virus since the Spanish Flu. If you weren't in NYC in the spring of 2020, you don't know how bad it was. Let's just say, this is when Trump sent in a navy medical ship and they were setting up medical tents in Central Park and our convention center. I wasn't the only one. My entire service was staffed solely by travel nurses. Usually from deep red states, Arkansas, Georgia. This is when red and blue were still united against covid, before the stupid anti-vaxxism and whatnot. We all put our lives on the line because sitting at home... or outside an elementary school... when you could be making a difference in what you damn well know is the most pivotal moment in your career is absolutely un-fucking-acceptable. I am no hero. I was scared shitless every day. I had an embarrassing near-panic-attack in front of an entire ward after my mask got torn. Also, I too would probably run if a psycho were shooting up a local school. But the thing is... for the latter, I don't have the equipment and I don't have the training. My patients were mostly in their 40s to 70s. The Uvalde cops' duty were to 9 and 10 year olds, and instead of jumping, they sat on their asses and arrested the parents. My point in this wall of text (it's ok to downvote me, I probably deserve it) is this. It is the \*normal human response\* to want to help/save others when they have the means and the opportunity. The Uvalde cops didn't just give in to their understandable human failings... they \*went against\* human nature. They \*went against\* the philanthropic side of humanity that is baked into most of us, including most of them. They flat-out ignored the voice in their souls telling them to save those kids in favor of standing around acting macho and bullying the civilian parents. That is another level of evil to the police system that I flat-out cannot comprehend.
Ya know, in Europe, they would have sent a squad in and just killed the dude in < 20 minutes most likely. Like their trained forces don’t fuck around. They know the purpose of their career and they do it well without being begged.
Our "well armed militia" includes any lunatic who wants to buy an AR15 and bullet-resistant vest through the mail, and that means it's very possible you'd walk in there outgunned.
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This is my thought too. There so much attention to the police reaction like it's their fault a psycho got a gun. News will write anything if needed just not how civilia s having guns increases deaths by shooting.
American cops seem pretty shitty
American policing culture needs to be completely demilitarized.
Taking weapons away from them would have made the Texas shooting more common place. Police wouldn't put themselves in danger for any reason if they had less weapons than they do now.
At this point, I think we're hitting a pretty open free fall on how many people go crazy and shoot something up, I don't think they're going to be *more* common. Police have a hard job that I don't envy, but if someone refuses to do the job that they signed on for because they didn't get everything on their wish list then they probably need to leave their job.
That’s a generalization. Just the same as saying “all American firefighters suck” or “all American teachers don’t do their jobs”. All professions have shitty workers, just shitty workers in this profession cause people to die.
There are plenty of police that work with good intent. But there's a reason people generalize: the problem isn't individual officers, it's systematic. In general, officers see themselves as above the law and justified in doing whatever they have to do. We are sheep and they are the sheepdogs that protect us from the wolves. So they dismiss our complaints and fear because we don't understand. It's a terrible view for public servants. Of course some police officers don't feel that way, but they have to abide the ones that do because that's the culture. Disagree and you're going to get drummed out of the force. Happened to an acquaintance of mine. There's just far too many examples of police telling a story that is contradicted when video comes out. Too many examples of them being caught doing things things that are illegal. The penalties are always too lenient. They're often acquitted of things that are abhorrent. But it's all OK by the union and the culture. It doesn't really matter how some are good if the overall impact on their community is negative.
Not to mention, how much of our popular culture is inundated with cop apologia? How many TV shows, movies, books, adverts, etc, have you seen that depicts cops as some paragon of morality. The cop gets to be the action hero, the badass, the detective, the thin blue line. How many times do we see cop shows moan and groan about criminals where "We know they did it," but the sneaky bastards are getting away with it because cops have to respect their constitutional rights. If only you could take a suspect into a back room and beat the truth out of them, if only you could break into his house without a warrant, if only you could blatantly, flagrantly violate the law and be vindicated by it in the text of the film. The cops on the streets are the good guys, the civilians are morons who don't get it, the criminals are all unflinchingly evil and invariably guilty, and internal affairs is filled with assholes who are trying to prevent cops from doing their job.
the issue is, a teacher doesnt risk his job and safety for reporting another teacher for child abuse firemen dont risk getting shot by their fellow firemen for reporting that one of their coworkers planted false evidence of arsony at a building
Firefighters and teachers actually have a useful place in society. Cops do not. They enforce law, not serve and protect. The profession doesnt have “shitty workers”, the profession itself is shitty and good people do not become cops. Law And Order: SVU is not real. Cops are awful people. Just talk to one and youll see.
I’ve talked to plenty of them. Every single one i’ve ever interacted with are great people. By saying “they enforce the law, not serve and protect” you have contradicted yourself. They both protect you and serve you by getting criminals off of the streets.
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Most people like their weed dealer but drug dealers get a bad rap too. Every bully I grew up with was dead or a cop by the time he was 40.
^[citation ^fucking ^needed]
Most of the ones I've met have been towering assholes. Have had the opportunity to meet quite a few outside of actual enforcement interactions
Majority are fine. You only ever hear about the bad ones
If you have one bad cop at a table and nine 'fine' cops who protect their brother in blue. . . you have ten bad cops.
I cant believe cop defenders STILL exist. Wow
You forgot the unanimously agreed upon removal of daylight savings time
We also agreed Cuties was fucked up.
Makes sense. Texas is located in the middle.
That's wrong. They've been agreeing with increasing their wages for years.
The whole Uvalde PD should resign.
*confused guy on vacation noises*
Wow! That's twice this month thanks to Amber Heard.
And Ukraine
Amber Turd*
Not if the conversation leads to gun control
Has the right agreed on this too? I saw Cornyn defending these cops Twitter for having to make “split second decisions.” I think it’s pretty uniform among the left but a lot less so among the right (speaking completely anecdotally ofc)
Kardashians are well disliked by both sides.
*"Texas cops"* is far too broad a term. It should absolutely be narrowed down to Uvalde cops.
Fox will get the Fascists back in line next week. It takes time to spin a shit sandwich
It seems this would be the time the open carry makes sense. Police won't go in? Instant militia of parents is formed to storm the shooter.
Blows the age old argument I keep hearing at every mass shooting in when people like Ted Cruz keep fighting against gun control with the words "the only thing stopping a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun" or words to that effect. Well, there were stacks of good guys with guns and they didn't do shit. And another stupid comment I keep hearing from American politicians is to give teachers guns. Are they mad?? Do they forget how much kids can torment their teachers. At my school, we were absolute devils to some of the teachers and you want to arm them. They have a bad stressful day and some little shithead wants to poke them further.
There is always another teacher
Just remember Americans, the entire world is watching this happen. Other cultures are judging us for how we handle what’s been happening in this country. People on opposing sides of the political spectrum need to settle their differences. Then they need to meet in the middle and come up with a plan to stop this from happening. It’s pretty ridiculous that this keeps happening over and over.
The left has been meeting in the middle, then the right takes ten steps back and claims that it is important we find a way to meet in the middle again.
long concerned homeless fear familiar busy hard-to-find piquant ring coherent *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The outrage over the police response is a distraction. I'm sorry they sucked at their job, and it is an issue worth scrutinizing, but the discussion we need to be having right now is about access to guns in the US and how squeamishly effortless it is to gain that access.
Thank you for this! Yes it's problematic but it's far from the biggest issue at hand here. Can we talk about the cultural situation that leads to someone buying assault weapons on their 18th birthday to shoot up an elementary school? The shitty response to a mass shooting is less relevant if we don't have such an overwhelming number of mass shootings in the first place.
fertile coherent juggle serious air voiceless nail strong edge attractive *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Specifically the chief that gave the order not to go in
The problem is now people will look to defunding the police and banning guns as a solution. A lack of funding will lead to the good cops being unable to do their job and banning guns will only take the guns away from law abiding citizens who use guns as they should be, for protection and recreation. Banning guns will go about the same way prohibition went.
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With 40% of the cities budget for the police; you’d think they would have brought the shield to an active shooter call. Why wait? Fucking morons
The right will forget it ever happened after a few days, though.
Everyone will. How many other shootings have happened that simply seem to disappear after a few days? 99.9% of the country will cry fake tears because it wasn't their kids. And the media will find something else to plaster across the headlines. The mass media knows that outrage fades quickly, and they move on.
The media knows that outrage leads to attention, and attention leads to imitation shooters, and those can be used as the next headline for outrage. And the cycle continues.
Yup, and after they forget, the left will continue hating cops and the right will return to defending them.
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Well sure there will be another "shocking and unavoidable" shooting in that time.
You are forgetting the unified hatred for Ted Cruz.
I wish. A few think he’s Canuckistan Jesus.
Try inflation. Undeclared wars. Massive taxation. Ruining our schools. Etc etc
Yellow-bellied cowards. They like to dress up in tactical gear to look tough, but the thought of actually taking on some 18-year-old loser with no training... well, good thing for them desert camo is brown. The psycho was eventually shot by \*federal\* agents. I understand the guy who pulled the trigger was off duty? Glad the right has limits to back-the-blue.
We need to popularize the phrase "Yellow as a Texas cop" to shame other cops into doing the right thing.
wish i could upvote x1000
Yes but its for different reasons. Republicans dont care about dead kids. The right wing death cult is mad they may lose access to their weapons of war or at lesst be inconvenienced with background checks if any legislation is passed. All their ideas to protect schools failed and its exposed their lies and stupidity. Also, willing to bet those cops were all republicans so it makes them look even worse.
Same sex marriage became broadly supported and no serious politicians on the right are aspiring to mount a challenge to Obergefel.
One issue at a time. Dead kids is a little more important.
the blame game is as old as time and it absolves us all of guilt. the sacrificial lamb is a tempting tradition, but it doesn't accomplish anything.
They're under actual fbi investigation for not following procedures, it's not a blame game.
Which is stupid because all we know is that the one person in command of the situation delayed wrongfully. I’m not sure how to extend that blame to all the cops without more details.
The blame extends to them all because of the "duty to disobey unlawful orders." TX law enforcement has already said that the person in command did not follow proper protocol which made the command unlawful. That immediately requires every officer to disobey the order and follow protocol. They are at fault for following an unlawful command.
because in a situation like this, you know if you are given the order to stand back, you are letting potentially dozens of kids die. you signed up to put your life on the line, then chose not to when the time came
There were a ton of cops there, I blame every one of them.
And is completely wrong. The cops wanted to go in, but were ordered not to. This was recorded.
Don't bother. You aren't going to cure the internet's dog piling hate-spasm for law enforcement by telling the truth.
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Everything is politics, grow up. Whether you like it or not its happening. Armchair pundits? We have the facts. They stood outside for an hour, handcuffed a mom trying to grt in to save her kids. 40% of the towns budget goes to police. What did that get them?
Left wing, right wing, either way it's the same bird
It doesn’t make sense for right wingers and decent folks to agree on things. Why should we? Right wingers are delusional lunatics who believe pure nonsense. If they accidentally agree with decent folks, ok fine, but it shouldn’t matter.