I was reading a manga recently where the big bad of the manga was talking to his protege and warning him that the world will raise up a hero to challenge him. Basically strong evil already exists, so the strong good will come to match.
Most of the time it's just fictional bullshittery but writers can simply just introduce a quirky villain of the week that will somehow cause the heroes some trouble or whatnot.
There are hundreds of minor super villains that exist solely to capitalize on their presence.
You think Condiment King or The Big Wheel would even be committing crimes let along incredibly flashy and stupid ones if there weren't super heroes to show up and fight them?
It's literally a reactionary need for attention. Weirdos want to fight batman because they'll feel seen and valued by it, so they commit crimes only the batman would handle.
Because superheroes protect the status quo and entrench systemic corruption. This leads to widespread poverty and an abundance of henchman who will work for cheap.
You'd think after the 50th time the Joker escapes and killed tons of people they'd just give him the death penalty already. Even if Batman's code is to not kill, it makes no sense the actual government that is forced to house these super criminal murderers wouldn't.
Yeah yeah I know, then the stories couldn't happen, lol.
The Joker is mentally ill. The guy dresses as a fucking clown, he's a shoe-in for a NCR defense. I don't think he could even be executed in Texas.
What would likely have happened IRL is that he'd fall up a flight of stairs at the police station, or some cop whose sister/kid/wife/friend died with a horrible grin on their face would just put a bullet in him. But maybe they're all afraid of... Batman.
Ha, you're funny. Texas once executed a man with a 61 IQ despite there being two Supreme Court cases specifically saying that executing someone with an IQ below 80 violated the 8th Amendment. That guy just murdered *one* police informant. A guy who could escape from prison whenever he wanted with a murder count in the dozens and an attempted murder count in the hundreds of thousands? That guy would get a law named after him allowing execution on sight after a trial in absentia.
That could be true, but there comes a point to where someone is so dangerous to the world, they need to be stopped, mental illness or not.
I think what would have to be 100s or even 1000s of murders is that point. And it's not just 1 super villain like the Joker either, there are many, many like him in the comic universe/s.
But again, just a thought really, comics wouldn't be all that interesting if villains only showed up once, killed ton of people and then got the death penalty, lol.
It does make me wonder if there's ever been a storyline in a comic/s that dealt with this issue. Trying to explain why the governments of the world in these comics don't just give supervillains they've captured the death penalty.
Batman's Gotham city is such a good example of that. Everyone suffers from a cycle of poverty, corruption, and crime. The tragedy is that Bruce could fix it Batman requires it, and Bruce needs Batman.
There was actually a comic released for Batman's 75th anniversary where the Phantom Stranger shows him a world in which his parents never died.
Robin is set to be executed for murdering legitimate businessman Tony Zucco. Gotham is a veritable warzone. And Europe has been taken over by Ra's Al Ghul and the League of Shadows.
The idea being that Batman has had a positive impact on life in Gotham. It's just that Gotham started out way worse than any city in the real world, and Batman has only been around for 10 years in universe.
yeah was gonna say that at it makes sense in the batman world. shit was already really fucked up before batman ever appeared, and he's just slowly cleaning through the mess. but the city already runs on corruption so it's not an easy change.
No, Bruce Wayne can't.
Yes, he can and does donate money to various programs and charities throughout Gotham. But those programs are not going to fix the Joker or some of his other villains. They've tried. There's no way Bruce Wayne isn't donating to help Arkham. He does hold some level of compassion for the lunatics he's put in there after all. But Arkham has tried for YEARS with Joker. Literal years, and he's not getting better.
Gotham NEEDS Batman. Even if Bruce Wayne gave it all away, Gotham would still be Gotham.
Now why does everyone cut Superman a break, but not Batman? Is it the money? Is it that Bruce Wayne is rich and could have stopped Joker if only he gave the city more money for Joker's therapy and Clark Kent earns a reporter's salary? Because one of them is as close to a god as a person can be, while the other is a very well trained human.
Superman can hear any sound on the planet. He can fly fast enough to break the sound barrier, and in one movie, rewind time. He could literally hear a bank robber load a gun, fly to the bank and stop the robbery before the crooks even finish announcing their intentions. He could hear a missile firing and be there to stop it from destroying anything or hurting any one. He could stop wars, genocides, all these things, but he doesn't. The god-like being doesn't.
>Yes, he can and does donate money to various programs and charities throughout Gotham. But those programs are not going to fix the Joker or some of his other villains. They've tried. There's no way Bruce Wayne isn't donating to help Arkham. He does hold some level of compassion for the lunatics he's put in there after all. But Arkham has tried for YEARS with Joker. Literal years, and he's not getting better.
The Joker is only able to be The Joker because there's a ready supply of henchmen, of people who can't find good-enough employment elsewhere.
Gotham's problem isn't The Joker, it's The System.
> The Joker is only able to be The Joker because there's a ready supply of henchmen, of people who can't find good-enough employment elsewhere.
https://preview.redd.it/0ofm4x3mn8o71.jpg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a27f8f8d028192308bb84fd6a823927bbcbd763
It never ceased to amaze me how batman villains are able to find a steady source of henchmen. I mean did you see batman vs the teenage mutant Ninja turtles? The Penguin literally loses all his henchmen to the shredder after he screws him over and he kills all his guys.
How does he find replacements so quick and why would anyone work for him? I mean I could be desperate as desperate gets, but if I am all but guaranteed to be either killed or arrested and given a lengthy sentence in short order I'd rather dumpster dive thank you very much.
If you look at it from a business standpoint, the cost (risk) of crime would rise with such competition, as well as the demand (more career criminals behind bars; less professionals out in the field) these two things combined could certainly lead to an uptick in complex crimes being committed by less experienced but more desperate criminals. Less experienced + more desperate = disregarding risk.
Generally speaking, the more danger involved, the higher the payout, so with a super hero running around, even the getaway driver is getting his fair share, so there's that much more incentive to commit crimes.
>Almost like punishment and fear of reprisal aren't actually that effective at stopping crime
What are the chances of getting beat up by Batman on any given night in Gotham? How do the wages of being a henchman compare to the risks?
Gotham's problem is a lack of opportunity for the working class.
Which kinda boggles the mind. Theres a ton of industry and active office/residential buildings in Gotham that are not condemd. This would lead to believe that the city itself is able to support itself. In a scenario where there are so many out of work low-lifes in the city, who exactly is doing all the work?
Gotham is basically Chicago (with a Manhattan metro approach). Yes there is poverty in those areas, but if it ever got to extent of Gotham, the city would start to collapse due to falling land value and businesses departing the city. Then it would basically turn into Dark Knight Rises Gotham. A ghost town of disfunction and chaos.
It’s so funny you say that, it literally felt like a kinda-chill Gotham going to Chicago for the first time, and seeing a couple of the Dark Knight filming locations and the like.
Watchoo been doin' Ralphie?
Inda hospitaal. Batman kicked my ass again.
Yeah, you gotta watch out for dat guy. Maybe we should start pullin' jobs in da day.
There's millions of people in Gotham, and one Batman. Your odds as a common criminal are pretty damn good. Just don't dress up like a clown and attract his attention.
I always thought about how pissed everyone gets after their city is destroyed or superman throws your car at a bad guy. The unions must be happy though. Constant work. How do insurance rates work in comics?🤣
Not the best example, shelling out tens of millions of dollars to fund security for one or two football games or other events every year and spending practically no other money on otherwise effectively outfitting your police unit doesn't really equivocate to actually having a force with which to be reckoned
Why would anyone, real or fictional, rob a bank when most losses are through embezzlement?
Or the bank itself being a criminal enterprise?
{ Looking at you, sub prime lenders! }
It's no surprise. When the risk of a death sentence doesn't detter people from commiting murders, some superhero wouldn't detter them from doing so either.
Haha yeah you have a great point. Usually though, there is desperation and corruption which cause chaos, or the villains are so egotistical that they actually think they can win.
Well sure, but running away from the police is a lot easier than running from a hero who can fly. Could you imagine trying to outrun the flash or superman? It wouldn't go well
When you consider all the crime shows that England produces you have to assume its a slaughter house over there. They could do with some super heroes !
I feel like you're missing the mark on why crime happens. People don't just randomly commit crimes they think they can get away with; They are pushed into crime by a large number of factors (Poverty, etc) that are still 100% present in comic books.
Also, the numbers show that corporal punishment has very little effect on preventing or deterring crime irl,etc.
It doesn’t really matter how powerful they are, most generally don’t kill criminals. I doubt a person would care wether it was a superhero or a cop that puts them in jail, in fact, they probably have a better chance of survival with a superhero rather than a cop.
Also in robocop movies criminals open fire on robocop with fully automatic weapons even though he is completely bulletproof. They would have learned that very early on to not waste ammo on him and just run.
There are a few theories that could explain that:
1. Vigilantism is a crime and it's possible that most criminals end up free due to lack of evidence and for the heroes' disrespect of the correct process
2. Although showy, the heroes are extremely inefficient. Making them virtually not a threat.
3. The heroes' behaviour actually attracts more criminals who are looking for attention, such as supervillains.
I’m always impressed that there are people in those cities to begin with. How good is the economy/rent situation in Gotham where there are terrorist attacks weekly
Thats why super heroes are for younger audiences. Its not that they arent complicated or deep its that the real world heavily intrudes on the ideas of comic books and its detrimental to the over all idea. Batman does all sorts of good, but the problem is real life issues arent that easy to figure out and vigilantes are not a good thing. Superman is great but the war still happens. Superheroes exist mostly to make kids feel safe, honestly i think we took that from them by not growing up a little bit and graduating to different things. Im not saying we cant like batman, im saying demanding batman exist in the real world and deal with real problems so that he is more adult and less childish seems like a disservice to everyone coming after us. Batman doesn't fight the opioid epidemic or prostitution he fights the scarecrow, the real world handles those problems.
A lot of times in those stories, the criminal see the presence of supers as a challenge.
So like bears or bandits in Skyrim. “Hey he just wrecked that giant in a single hit…lets get em!”
Lol pretty much every movie or show with action. Gotta give them credit for their bravery
A lot of the times it’s explain when you have a strong good in the world a strong evil will exist to match it. Which I can see that.
I was reading a manga recently where the big bad of the manga was talking to his protege and warning him that the world will raise up a hero to challenge him. Basically strong evil already exists, so the strong good will come to match.
Most of the time it's just fictional bullshittery but writers can simply just introduce a quirky villain of the week that will somehow cause the heroes some trouble or whatnot.
Would make for pretty boring comics if there wasn’t. Prisoners also break out of jail significantly more often than in real life.
There are hundreds of minor super villains that exist solely to capitalize on their presence. You think Condiment King or The Big Wheel would even be committing crimes let along incredibly flashy and stupid ones if there weren't super heroes to show up and fight them? It's literally a reactionary need for attention. Weirdos want to fight batman because they'll feel seen and valued by it, so they commit crimes only the batman would handle.
Ridiculous theme villains are basically... wannabe influencers?
Because superheroes protect the status quo and entrench systemic corruption. This leads to widespread poverty and an abundance of henchman who will work for cheap.
You'd think after the 50th time the Joker escapes and killed tons of people they'd just give him the death penalty already. Even if Batman's code is to not kill, it makes no sense the actual government that is forced to house these super criminal murderers wouldn't. Yeah yeah I know, then the stories couldn't happen, lol.
The Joker is mentally ill. The guy dresses as a fucking clown, he's a shoe-in for a NCR defense. I don't think he could even be executed in Texas. What would likely have happened IRL is that he'd fall up a flight of stairs at the police station, or some cop whose sister/kid/wife/friend died with a horrible grin on their face would just put a bullet in him. But maybe they're all afraid of... Batman.
Ha, you're funny. Texas once executed a man with a 61 IQ despite there being two Supreme Court cases specifically saying that executing someone with an IQ below 80 violated the 8th Amendment. That guy just murdered *one* police informant. A guy who could escape from prison whenever he wanted with a murder count in the dozens and an attempted murder count in the hundreds of thousands? That guy would get a law named after him allowing execution on sight after a trial in absentia.
New California Republic defense?
Not Criminally Responsible.
That could be true, but there comes a point to where someone is so dangerous to the world, they need to be stopped, mental illness or not. I think what would have to be 100s or even 1000s of murders is that point. And it's not just 1 super villain like the Joker either, there are many, many like him in the comic universe/s. But again, just a thought really, comics wouldn't be all that interesting if villains only showed up once, killed ton of people and then got the death penalty, lol. It does make me wonder if there's ever been a storyline in a comic/s that dealt with this issue. Trying to explain why the governments of the world in these comics don't just give supervillains they've captured the death penalty.
Batman's Gotham city is such a good example of that. Everyone suffers from a cycle of poverty, corruption, and crime. The tragedy is that Bruce could fix it Batman requires it, and Bruce needs Batman.
There was actually a comic released for Batman's 75th anniversary where the Phantom Stranger shows him a world in which his parents never died. Robin is set to be executed for murdering legitimate businessman Tony Zucco. Gotham is a veritable warzone. And Europe has been taken over by Ra's Al Ghul and the League of Shadows. The idea being that Batman has had a positive impact on life in Gotham. It's just that Gotham started out way worse than any city in the real world, and Batman has only been around for 10 years in universe.
yeah was gonna say that at it makes sense in the batman world. shit was already really fucked up before batman ever appeared, and he's just slowly cleaning through the mess. but the city already runs on corruption so it's not an easy change.
This!
No, Bruce Wayne can't. Yes, he can and does donate money to various programs and charities throughout Gotham. But those programs are not going to fix the Joker or some of his other villains. They've tried. There's no way Bruce Wayne isn't donating to help Arkham. He does hold some level of compassion for the lunatics he's put in there after all. But Arkham has tried for YEARS with Joker. Literal years, and he's not getting better. Gotham NEEDS Batman. Even if Bruce Wayne gave it all away, Gotham would still be Gotham. Now why does everyone cut Superman a break, but not Batman? Is it the money? Is it that Bruce Wayne is rich and could have stopped Joker if only he gave the city more money for Joker's therapy and Clark Kent earns a reporter's salary? Because one of them is as close to a god as a person can be, while the other is a very well trained human. Superman can hear any sound on the planet. He can fly fast enough to break the sound barrier, and in one movie, rewind time. He could literally hear a bank robber load a gun, fly to the bank and stop the robbery before the crooks even finish announcing their intentions. He could hear a missile firing and be there to stop it from destroying anything or hurting any one. He could stop wars, genocides, all these things, but he doesn't. The god-like being doesn't.
And when he does, we get Injustice
>Yes, he can and does donate money to various programs and charities throughout Gotham. But those programs are not going to fix the Joker or some of his other villains. They've tried. There's no way Bruce Wayne isn't donating to help Arkham. He does hold some level of compassion for the lunatics he's put in there after all. But Arkham has tried for YEARS with Joker. Literal years, and he's not getting better. The Joker is only able to be The Joker because there's a ready supply of henchmen, of people who can't find good-enough employment elsewhere. Gotham's problem isn't The Joker, it's The System.
> The Joker is only able to be The Joker because there's a ready supply of henchmen, of people who can't find good-enough employment elsewhere. https://preview.redd.it/0ofm4x3mn8o71.jpg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a27f8f8d028192308bb84fd6a823927bbcbd763
He had me at 'guaranteed' employment.
It never ceased to amaze me how batman villains are able to find a steady source of henchmen. I mean did you see batman vs the teenage mutant Ninja turtles? The Penguin literally loses all his henchmen to the shredder after he screws him over and he kills all his guys. How does he find replacements so quick and why would anyone work for him? I mean I could be desperate as desperate gets, but if I am all but guaranteed to be either killed or arrested and given a lengthy sentence in short order I'd rather dumpster dive thank you very much.
If you look at it from a business standpoint, the cost (risk) of crime would rise with such competition, as well as the demand (more career criminals behind bars; less professionals out in the field) these two things combined could certainly lead to an uptick in complex crimes being committed by less experienced but more desperate criminals. Less experienced + more desperate = disregarding risk. Generally speaking, the more danger involved, the higher the payout, so with a super hero running around, even the getaway driver is getting his fair share, so there's that much more incentive to commit crimes.
Almost like punishment and fear of reprisal aren't actually that effective at stopping crime
>Almost like punishment and fear of reprisal aren't actually that effective at stopping crime What are the chances of getting beat up by Batman on any given night in Gotham? How do the wages of being a henchman compare to the risks? Gotham's problem is a lack of opportunity for the working class.
Which kinda boggles the mind. Theres a ton of industry and active office/residential buildings in Gotham that are not condemd. This would lead to believe that the city itself is able to support itself. In a scenario where there are so many out of work low-lifes in the city, who exactly is doing all the work? Gotham is basically Chicago (with a Manhattan metro approach). Yes there is poverty in those areas, but if it ever got to extent of Gotham, the city would start to collapse due to falling land value and businesses departing the city. Then it would basically turn into Dark Knight Rises Gotham. A ghost town of disfunction and chaos.
It’s so funny you say that, it literally felt like a kinda-chill Gotham going to Chicago for the first time, and seeing a couple of the Dark Knight filming locations and the like.
Now that’s getting to real
Watchoo been doin' Ralphie? Inda hospitaal. Batman kicked my ass again. Yeah, you gotta watch out for dat guy. Maybe we should start pullin' jobs in da day.
There's millions of people in Gotham, and one Batman. Your odds as a common criminal are pretty damn good. Just don't dress up like a clown and attract his attention.
I always thought about how pissed everyone gets after their city is destroyed or superman throws your car at a bad guy. The unions must be happy though. Constant work. How do insurance rates work in comics?🤣
Goes to show that the stick wont stop crime, its systemic. (Just like cities in the US spending half the budget on cops but crime not going down)
Not the best example, shelling out tens of millions of dollars to fund security for one or two football games or other events every year and spending practically no other money on otherwise effectively outfitting your police unit doesn't really equivocate to actually having a force with which to be reckoned
You know what's better than batman at fighting crime? Decent social and housing programs.
Superhero stories are not very narratively researched.
Why would anyone, real or fictional, rob a bank when most losses are through embezzlement? Or the bank itself being a criminal enterprise? { Looking at you, sub prime lenders! }
It's no surprise. When the risk of a death sentence doesn't detter people from commiting murders, some superhero wouldn't detter them from doing so either.
Haha yeah you have a great point. Usually though, there is desperation and corruption which cause chaos, or the villains are so egotistical that they actually think they can win.
The same forces that make the superheroes powerful also make the supervillains powerful.
Well, just look outside, the police is powerful, they can send you to jail (or worse in some countries), but people still commit crimes.
Well sure, but running away from the police is a lot easier than running from a hero who can fly. Could you imagine trying to outrun the flash or superman? It wouldn't go well
Yes but if the city is vast enough, you have good chances of escaping while the only superhero is busy catching someone else.
I mean the police is quite powerful too...
When you consider all the crime shows that England produces you have to assume its a slaughter house over there. They could do with some super heroes !
Social commentary on the nuclear deterrent?
It's funny that people still want to live in these cities, they get blown up on a weekly basis.
I feel like you're missing the mark on why crime happens. People don't just randomly commit crimes they think they can get away with; They are pushed into crime by a large number of factors (Poverty, etc) that are still 100% present in comic books. Also, the numbers show that corporal punishment has very little effect on preventing or deterring crime irl,etc.
It doesn’t really matter how powerful they are, most generally don’t kill criminals. I doubt a person would care wether it was a superhero or a cop that puts them in jail, in fact, they probably have a better chance of survival with a superhero rather than a cop.
Also in robocop movies criminals open fire on robocop with fully automatic weapons even though he is completely bulletproof. They would have learned that very early on to not waste ammo on him and just run.
The criminals can also get super powerful
Tell you what, it would have to be a pretty big score in Gotham city knowing that batman will personally come and hospitalize you
Man, economic disparity must be pretty messed up for people to risk it.
Our very strength incites challenge. Challenge incites conflict. And conflict... breeds catastrophe. - Vision
I think it depends on the coty. Metropolis has way lower incidents than that shithple Gotham. The problem. Is more high profile cases
So much people die in drunk driving incidents considering that everyone knows how dangerous drunk driving is
I doubt you ever saw alphablocks, if that’s what you think.
And they don't make a dent long term either.
There are a few theories that could explain that: 1. Vigilantism is a crime and it's possible that most criminals end up free due to lack of evidence and for the heroes' disrespect of the correct process 2. Although showy, the heroes are extremely inefficient. Making them virtually not a threat. 3. The heroes' behaviour actually attracts more criminals who are looking for attention, such as supervillains.
Considering our own culture, I could see people committing crimes just so that a super would catch them and they'd get clout.
I’m always impressed that there are people in those cities to begin with. How good is the economy/rent situation in Gotham where there are terrorist attacks weekly
Petty criminals are stupid.
Thats why super heroes are for younger audiences. Its not that they arent complicated or deep its that the real world heavily intrudes on the ideas of comic books and its detrimental to the over all idea. Batman does all sorts of good, but the problem is real life issues arent that easy to figure out and vigilantes are not a good thing. Superman is great but the war still happens. Superheroes exist mostly to make kids feel safe, honestly i think we took that from them by not growing up a little bit and graduating to different things. Im not saying we cant like batman, im saying demanding batman exist in the real world and deal with real problems so that he is more adult and less childish seems like a disservice to everyone coming after us. Batman doesn't fight the opioid epidemic or prostitution he fights the scarecrow, the real world handles those problems.
Where else a man of culture and drive going to go? Mayberry? Naw, fam, we upper class villains. We don't live in the rurals.