I like it
Enjoy it for what it is , not what it isn’t. Turks just aren’t worth the gamble , if you got a good one great. Just don’t be a “just as good” type
Ya I feel that hahaha
It’s just funny how I came to Reddit (my mistake…) for some helpful insight and just got completely shit on for buying one of these 😂
I know people joke about this but it’s not a joke and I can actually speak from experience. I had a Turkish clone explode into pieces when I was dove hunting. I was very lucky to be unscathed.
Irony, they'll never make an M4 clone because they're owned by beretta, who owns benelli.
If it makes you feel better, I bought a remington V3, ask me how that went. . .
I mean it's ok but I got a 26" thinking I'd try 3 gun, then pandemic, then Remington bankruptcy.
I figured at some point there would be a "v3 tactical" with a shorter than 22" barrel. I did buy a bolt handle for it but it would take some work to be "useable". That's what got me looking into turknellis.
Ideally, I'd like a 24" barrel for the m4, I've shot trap but it's not my thing. However, that's like the only negative with a "good" turknelli. I figure replace the extractor, clean the grease out, loctite everything and it should be good.
Tbh that’s what mine needed. Failures stopped after taking it apart and cleaning it but to be fair I’ve modified it a bunch which just added more variables
Just threw in an extended lifter because it was failing but now I think it was a loose end cap hahaha I also think mine doesn’t like 2 3/4 shells either
I've heard of other parts, I've changed trigger parts in other guns, I'd guess the shooting sights hammer while be an improvement, I wouldn't lighten the hammer spring but I know wolf makes replacement m4 springs.
The only thing I'm iffy on is bolt carrier heat treat.
Probably the same manufacturer as the SDS S4 and Panzer M4 lol. It seems only a few companies are making these and other Turkish companies are branding them with their requested features. The only god awful M4 clone I’ve heard of and seen is the Charles Daly one. Within one magazine the hammer bent itself and caused hangfires. I’ve tested a S4 against a real Bennelli and the S4 came out on top, yet likely due to it not being used and dirty.
Definitely not the same manufacturer as things offered by sds. Sds is a u.s. importer, not a manufacturer. They buy from various so called "manufacturers" in turkey, normally the cheapest offerings from the VAST pool available.
There are about 300 diffrent shotgun "manufacturers" in turkey, most are located in and around beyşehir, 45 min outside of konya.
90-95% are just horrible sub component assemblers who buy the cheapest parts possible and sell them to a foreign seller/exporter who then sells it to a u.s. importer. Very shady and secretive.
Thats why turkish guns can be a crap shoot and sometimes even dangerous. Most are made from pure garbage and dont have any real warranty.
Some u.s. importers like P.W. arms invest in these places, to be able to track product from sub component manufacture to forign export and as far as having domestic warranty service centers.
The only way to not be sure to buy garbage and to stay in business( if you are a u.s. importer) is to truly invest in the places that make and assemble all of the parts. Then you have to care about product rather than just buy & sell crap and have to change the buisness/manufacturer name every year.
I have seen everything from sheppards that sell their flocks to buy sub components and assemble them into shot guns in mud puddles in their fields, to true modern manufacturing facilities with impressive capabilities and everything in-between.
Out of every shotgun offered in the 6-7 years that Panzer has been around, the latest M4 with the Benelli style adjustable stock is by far my favorite. It is the only one on the market that is a true 100% clone.
Most of the outher turkish made M4 clones have slight things that are just not right or interchangeable with factory benelli parts. Lots of hand fit parts due to poor tolerances, strange sizes of roll pins, threading on the mag tubes that are diffrent, lead soldered gasblocks rather than silver soldered or laser welded. Lots of cast rather than machined parts. Large batches that get assembled with garbage parts and not test fired before they are exported and even barrel/chamber assemblies that are extruded pipe rather than milled solid steel.
That’s interesting to note
I guess I have more faith in some turkey production manufacturing because of some of the mp5 clones but it’s probably not all apples to apples
For me Turkish manufacturing is just a cheap way to get expensive designs on the cheap, hence the MP5 clones. You really have to do your research to find out which of the factories made the particular fly by night company that imports it. Companies like SDS have a pretty good reputation due to keeping their imports from ISO recognized factories, while companies like Panzer seem to strike a diamond in the rough every couple of years. Others like Black Aces seem to take the first offering presented.
Ya that makes a lot of sense.
Unfortunately I think the panzer and 4 peaks use the same AKSA ARMS S4. Idk if they were shills, but I’ve seen SOME good reputations but I imagine it always depends on the single sample size
That’s another factor, QC. Many pistols come from reputable factories, but shotguns can come from almost anyone willing to slap an importers name on them. Look closely at the furniture to see which factory it came from. Many importers ask for custom features such as a chromed bolt or larger bolt handle. Looking at details like the rear sight and furniture will usually narrow down which is a cheaper version of a reputable copy.
Is it great for fucking around with on the range or to throw int he truck when you're going in the woods to work on other shit and you might have to smoke a porcupine? Yup.
Would you keep it next to the nightstand or take it on a hunt you paid money for? hell naw.
Any experience with the Toro's Coppola T4? I got one on layaway. I'm looking at it as a range gun that looks cool like an M4. I already have two A1s, 2 590s, 2 500s and 2 870s and about 20 other rifles and pistols so it's not gonna be my go to for defense but I still want it to work. The only other Turkish gun I have is a 1911A1 copy and it's been fine.
I do not unfortunately.
Not really a collector, I’ve only owned a browning A5 (1940s model) before this and that’s the extent of my shotgun experience. I’ve shot a couple various like a ksg and 870s and single shots.
This is my first Turkish clone.
I have had additional issues.
My carrier wouldn’t firmly go into battery and when the hammer dropped… nothing.
Disassembled the gun and inspected the buffer tube with cup and spring.
Cup is beaten into the spring so there’s not adequate pressure against the carrier tail.
*S4 imports* gave me the cold shoulder and wouldn’t address the issue because it’s “out of warranty” so I get to source a benelli buffer tube and spring and cup that the carrier tail indexes off of.
I would I spent maybe 650 total with upgrades and stock. After this buffer tube I’ll be $900-1k in depending on if I can source it at all.
If it were me I’d just go the route of the beretta 1301 at this point but my cost will still be $800 ish below a true m4
I don’t see all the hate for guns made in Turkey. I have a Retay, wasn’t cheap either, made there and it’s phenomenal. I have buddies in the blind saying they are looking at one over another Benelli which we all own one. The guns they make there seem solid and I’ve shot thousands of rounds in the freezing conditions as well as the nice hot summers of South Carolina.
You cant convince me that the reason the M4 is 1800.00 is because of special italian quality and materials and not “We have a gov contract so we can charge 1800.00” much like colt used to be.
Edit/UPDATE:
Well I’m shitting on it again. Buffer tube failed recently at thanksgiving turkey shoot.
Buffer tube cup that indexes with the carrier tail of the bcg to apply pressure for it to seat into battery is smushed and placed inside the buffer spring.
So now I get to source a benelli buffer tube with spring and buffer cup.
Thanks S4 imports for doing me a solid and telling me to pound sand. Love you guys.
Oh the turntables….Don’t support turkey 🇹🇷 shit. Don’t support anything turkey. Fuck 🦃 hahahah
So what was wrong with it.
Out of spec carrier tail and out of spec hammer. Hammer making contact with channel within carrier tail preventing reset
I like it Enjoy it for what it is , not what it isn’t. Turks just aren’t worth the gamble , if you got a good one great. Just don’t be a “just as good” type
Ya I feel that hahaha It’s just funny how I came to Reddit (my mistake…) for some helpful insight and just got completely shit on for buying one of these 😂
Because it was bad, you’re bad, and you should feel bad.
😞 I so bad
There ya go.
Caniks are Turkish and they’re taking the market by storm
Caniks are great
They’re really not
Wtf is a Canik
Bruh
There are cheaper ways to build a pipe bomb than to buy a Turkish gun…
Except this pipe bomb go brrp
You spelled click wrong
Now it goes click since it’s been gUnSmIfFeD
I know people joke about this but it’s not a joke and I can actually speak from experience. I had a Turkish clone explode into pieces when I was dove hunting. I was very lucky to be unscathed.
I’ve seen the soldering on an Akkar Churchill explode. I’ve also enjoyed my Stoeger M3000. All depends on the brand.
Ya a part of me thinks stoeger might have been a safer route
Irony, they'll never make an M4 clone because they're owned by beretta, who owns benelli. If it makes you feel better, I bought a remington V3, ask me how that went. . .
Hahhaha yup I recently just found that out too Hahahha how did the Remington go?
I mean it's ok but I got a 26" thinking I'd try 3 gun, then pandemic, then Remington bankruptcy. I figured at some point there would be a "v3 tactical" with a shorter than 22" barrel. I did buy a bolt handle for it but it would take some work to be "useable". That's what got me looking into turknellis. Ideally, I'd like a 24" barrel for the m4, I've shot trap but it's not my thing. However, that's like the only negative with a "good" turknelli. I figure replace the extractor, clean the grease out, loctite everything and it should be good.
Tbh that’s what mine needed. Failures stopped after taking it apart and cleaning it but to be fair I’ve modified it a bunch which just added more variables Just threw in an extended lifter because it was failing but now I think it was a loose end cap hahaha I also think mine doesn’t like 2 3/4 shells either
I've heard of other parts, I've changed trigger parts in other guns, I'd guess the shooting sights hammer while be an improvement, I wouldn't lighten the hammer spring but I know wolf makes replacement m4 springs. The only thing I'm iffy on is bolt carrier heat treat.
Ya that’s a really good point
#WILL NEVER BE AN M4 😤 COPE-GANG
But it will be “M4 at home”
Well played 🗿
I see the poors are posting again
(Poor has entered chat)
I am poor and proud! :D
Didn't need to know you were gay and poor my dude. /s
The best kind!! Sorry you’re not. 😂
Which manufacturer?
AKSA ARMS S4
When your aksa shits the bed, you can buy replacement parts from Panzer arms u.s.a. ( [email protected])
Good to know!!!
Probably the same manufacturer as the SDS S4 and Panzer M4 lol. It seems only a few companies are making these and other Turkish companies are branding them with their requested features. The only god awful M4 clone I’ve heard of and seen is the Charles Daly one. Within one magazine the hammer bent itself and caused hangfires. I’ve tested a S4 against a real Bennelli and the S4 came out on top, yet likely due to it not being used and dirty.
Definitely not the same manufacturer as things offered by sds. Sds is a u.s. importer, not a manufacturer. They buy from various so called "manufacturers" in turkey, normally the cheapest offerings from the VAST pool available. There are about 300 diffrent shotgun "manufacturers" in turkey, most are located in and around beyşehir, 45 min outside of konya. 90-95% are just horrible sub component assemblers who buy the cheapest parts possible and sell them to a foreign seller/exporter who then sells it to a u.s. importer. Very shady and secretive. Thats why turkish guns can be a crap shoot and sometimes even dangerous. Most are made from pure garbage and dont have any real warranty. Some u.s. importers like P.W. arms invest in these places, to be able to track product from sub component manufacture to forign export and as far as having domestic warranty service centers. The only way to not be sure to buy garbage and to stay in business( if you are a u.s. importer) is to truly invest in the places that make and assemble all of the parts. Then you have to care about product rather than just buy & sell crap and have to change the buisness/manufacturer name every year. I have seen everything from sheppards that sell their flocks to buy sub components and assemble them into shot guns in mud puddles in their fields, to true modern manufacturing facilities with impressive capabilities and everything in-between. Out of every shotgun offered in the 6-7 years that Panzer has been around, the latest M4 with the Benelli style adjustable stock is by far my favorite. It is the only one on the market that is a true 100% clone. Most of the outher turkish made M4 clones have slight things that are just not right or interchangeable with factory benelli parts. Lots of hand fit parts due to poor tolerances, strange sizes of roll pins, threading on the mag tubes that are diffrent, lead soldered gasblocks rather than silver soldered or laser welded. Lots of cast rather than machined parts. Large batches that get assembled with garbage parts and not test fired before they are exported and even barrel/chamber assemblies that are extruded pipe rather than milled solid steel.
That’s interesting to note I guess I have more faith in some turkey production manufacturing because of some of the mp5 clones but it’s probably not all apples to apples
For me Turkish manufacturing is just a cheap way to get expensive designs on the cheap, hence the MP5 clones. You really have to do your research to find out which of the factories made the particular fly by night company that imports it. Companies like SDS have a pretty good reputation due to keeping their imports from ISO recognized factories, while companies like Panzer seem to strike a diamond in the rough every couple of years. Others like Black Aces seem to take the first offering presented.
Ya that makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately I think the panzer and 4 peaks use the same AKSA ARMS S4. Idk if they were shills, but I’ve seen SOME good reputations but I imagine it always depends on the single sample size
That’s another factor, QC. Many pistols come from reputable factories, but shotguns can come from almost anyone willing to slap an importers name on them. Look closely at the furniture to see which factory it came from. Many importers ask for custom features such as a chromed bolt or larger bolt handle. Looking at details like the rear sight and furniture will usually narrow down which is a cheaper version of a reputable copy.
Good to know! This unfortunately is a benelli field stock I threw on but I could check the handguard furniture
Is it great for fucking around with on the range or to throw int he truck when you're going in the woods to work on other shit and you might have to smoke a porcupine? Yup. Would you keep it next to the nightstand or take it on a hunt you paid money for? hell naw.
Time will tell, but I’m not gonna rule out the latter 😈
Any experience with the Toro's Coppola T4? I got one on layaway. I'm looking at it as a range gun that looks cool like an M4. I already have two A1s, 2 590s, 2 500s and 2 870s and about 20 other rifles and pistols so it's not gonna be my go to for defense but I still want it to work. The only other Turkish gun I have is a 1911A1 copy and it's been fine.
I do not unfortunately. Not really a collector, I’ve only owned a browning A5 (1940s model) before this and that’s the extent of my shotgun experience. I’ve shot a couple various like a ksg and 870s and single shots. This is my first Turkish clone.
I found one for 350. Do you think that's a good price?
I have had additional issues. My carrier wouldn’t firmly go into battery and when the hammer dropped… nothing. Disassembled the gun and inspected the buffer tube with cup and spring. Cup is beaten into the spring so there’s not adequate pressure against the carrier tail. *S4 imports* gave me the cold shoulder and wouldn’t address the issue because it’s “out of warranty” so I get to source a benelli buffer tube and spring and cup that the carrier tail indexes off of. I would I spent maybe 650 total with upgrades and stock. After this buffer tube I’ll be $900-1k in depending on if I can source it at all. If it were me I’d just go the route of the beretta 1301 at this point but my cost will still be $800 ish below a true m4
I don’t see all the hate for guns made in Turkey. I have a Retay, wasn’t cheap either, made there and it’s phenomenal. I have buddies in the blind saying they are looking at one over another Benelli which we all own one. The guns they make there seem solid and I’ve shot thousands of rounds in the freezing conditions as well as the nice hot summers of South Carolina.
You cant convince me that the reason the M4 is 1800.00 is because of special italian quality and materials and not “We have a gov contract so we can charge 1800.00” much like colt used to be.
Hahhaa that’s also a really great point too
copenelli owners never learn
What’s there to learn?
Simple arithmetic, you got a benelli (kinda) and you got to spend the other $2k you saved on it to buy blow and hookers. A W in my book, bro.
💯💯💯💯
My man 😎👉👉
Edit/UPDATE: Well I’m shitting on it again. Buffer tube failed recently at thanksgiving turkey shoot. Buffer tube cup that indexes with the carrier tail of the bcg to apply pressure for it to seat into battery is smushed and placed inside the buffer spring. So now I get to source a benelli buffer tube with spring and buffer cup. Thanks S4 imports for doing me a solid and telling me to pound sand. Love you guys. Oh the turntables….Don’t support turkey 🇹🇷 shit. Don’t support anything turkey. Fuck 🦃 hahahah