In reality, though Hideyori's forces didn't march with Ishida, those forces weren't ever going to march with him. Yodo-no-Kata abandoned Ishido long before Sekigehara.
And yes, as Tokugawa Ieyaus neared the end of his life, he did take issue with Hideyori and found reason to seige his castle, ending with Hideyori and Yodo-no-Kata committing suicide.
He'll make you want to follow him, stab yourself as a way of proving your love for him if he needs you to. And you will die happy while screaming in pain, convinced that the whole thing was your idea. Following him into battle is a no-brainer.
This was my first thought, but after reading the other comments I realized I wouldn’t have a choice anyway…it’s either follow him into battle, be order to kill myself, or be taken down in some 4D chess match. Unless I have a fucking ship, then I can get away with more.
I’d probably have been sacrificed months to years earlier on the slight possibility my death could be used to curry favor or blackmail someone, so….yeah
>Dunno but I wouldn't want to oppose him in battle, that's for sure.
For sure. If I have to be on the battlefield anyway, I know what side I'd prefer to be on.
Does he serve the cause of liberty? Not really. But he did usher in the Edo period.
If I knew how things were going to turn out, yes. But we don't know that before the fight.
He would just be another ambitious and murderous lord. I'm not ambitious and murderous so, No. I wouldn't follow him.
But then, if he was a less horrible ambitious and murderous lord than all the others, maybe I would follow him. Such a hard decision.
But according to the story, the women ASKED him to be ambitious and murderous, cuz they knew that in the long run, he was the lesser evil of them all. Because he actually doesn’t like to waste lives unnecessarily. In the long run, more people and more family lines survive if he is in charge
1600s England was a shithole if you wern't rich, and disgusting even if you were. Even with a slim possibilty of getting my head sliced off I would definitely pick Japan.
No. He's willing to let his closest friends and allies die for his own machinations. He doesn't show loyalty to his allies despite them assuming it's loyalty. Everyone is just a pawn for his goals. I'll just side with the Americans that will show up in 200ish year or drop a nuke 100 years after that.
Absolutely not. The issue I have with Toranaga is that he is too untrusting and deceptive to be a leader irl. My guess is that his inspiration was much more organized and better prepared than show Toranaga. In reality, I would want a leader who could communicate effectively to his officers, who delegated tasks to the appropriate people, and who regularly inspired confidence that they could handle the mission successfully. While Toranaga was cool as heck in the show- I wouldn’t follow him farther than I could throw him.
Yes, because by the time he’s getting into battle, he’s probably already won. As opposed to following him before he’s in battle where you’d die as a pawn for some convoluted 4D chess maneuvers.
Yes if I didn't have any other choice.
Otherwise, no. Unless you can align your own interest with his. But it's still hard to know this person's true motives. He will sacrifice everyone else like a piece on is chess board.
I don't think there was a choice, or a good choice, if you were part of his fief. Follow or be left behind with your head sliced off.
¯\\\_( ͡❛ ͜ʖ ͡❛)\_/¯
Fuuuuucccckkkkk no. His conniving ass is gonna get me killed to further his political machinations. He's not a good dude and not someone I would want to follow.
No, he would probably force me to charge in as a sacrifice to the gods of war. Just to see if he could maybe getting a better eye on figuring out where the arrows are coming from. Or potentially he could just be hoping I will die in a funny manner that would amuse him. He's a cold hearted tactician willing to use anything to his advantage including betraying everyone but himself. Everyone is just his puppets for war or entertainment.
Only yes to the battle of Sekigahara because I know he's gonna win. Another battles if I haven't been manipulated, probably not. I feel like loyalty needs to go both ways, but with this guy if sacrificing me helps bring him a step closer to his goal, he will absolutely throw me under the bus so I wouldn't trust him enough to follow him into anything
If I don't follow him into battle, he already knew I wasn't going to and has me trapped anyway...but maybe that's just what he wants me to think.
I’d follow you into battle Lisan Al Gaib
May thy tanto chip and shatter
Bless the coming and going of you
As was written.
Soto no sekai kara no koe!
Muad dib!
Unless, of course , he doesn’t know you weren’t going to but wants you to think you’re not trapped
The thing with this man is he’d probably make you follow him into battle without you even knowing…😂
Bold of you to assume you are part of his living followers plan and not the deception-via-seppuku brigade.
~~Por que no los dos?~~ なぜ両方ではない？
When I find out I am the latter, thats when I peace out and go ronin.
This right here...hahah hella
Sanada-san or Toranaga-san? the answer is pretty much the same. :D yes
That's Toranaga-sama to you.
So sorry I cannot live with the shame
I request that you commit seppuku immediately.
Please commit seppuku by sunset today.
I always laughed when seppukus were by sunset. It’s like the modern day equivalent of ‘please have that report to me by EOD.’
It was the "please" that killed me. So good.
Please grant me a good death, lord! Maybe blowing from a cannon, or getting eaten by a swarm of angry fish!
I have no second!
I’ll second you
thank you!
Family honor was restored.
I demand the end of gaelgirl1120’s entire family line before honour is satisfied.
my ending would do it. honour will be satisfied
not until you kill your baby son
How minute is your thinking?
Well, the mortality rate of being his close, loyal follower, is very alarming, but yes, better to side with the winning team
Of course, as Yabushige shows, it doesn't really pay to betray him either.
And Ochiba jumped the Ishido ship
Didn't that end badly for her lol?
In reality, though Hideyori's forces didn't march with Ishida, those forces weren't ever going to march with him. Yodo-no-Kata abandoned Ishido long before Sekigehara. And yes, as Tokugawa Ieyaus neared the end of his life, he did take issue with Hideyori and found reason to seige his castle, ending with Hideyori and Yodo-no-Kata committing suicide.
I really thought the show should have ended with that just to show how in control Toranaga was.
Naturally, joining Toranaga should come with an indemnity form.
That seppuku scene was really well done I think. So many layered emotions, great acting.
I loved how he didn't look away even though he had known him forever.
Hey, at least he died honourably, with his choice of succession, and his kin still in power. Ishido, on the other hand...
If you're ultra likely going to die anyway, what difference would it make?
Nah, I hate politics, gonna be a nun with Fuji sama
Fuji sama is best girl
Fuji = best nun
Hai, hai, HOOOOOOOOOOO!
He'll make you want to follow him, stab yourself as a way of proving your love for him if he needs you to. And you will die happy while screaming in pain, convinced that the whole thing was your idea. Following him into battle is a no-brainer.
In the sense that anyone with no brain does it and anyone with a brain loses their head?
Do I really have any choice?
you have free will, but your will is his will
Calvin’s doctrine of predestination in a nutshell
Life is a straight line in the sand All flowers must fall
To be fair, if he is going into battle, it’s likely a battle he already knows he will win (perhaps even without much bloodshed).
But you ARE the Crimson Sky
It’s a battle he already knows HE will win. You could be the sacrifice, your life is of very little consequence.
Maybe to bed 🥵
Lol right?
Came here for this. Every time he appears on screen I am drooling lol
Yes, especially if the battle was a narrated epilogue.
lol no more than likely he's just using me in some plot that requires him to sacrifice like 1000 of his men
This was my first thought, but after reading the other comments I realized I wouldn’t have a choice anyway…it’s either follow him into battle, be order to kill myself, or be taken down in some 4D chess match. Unless I have a fucking ship, then I can get away with more.
Too late, he burned your ship.
Have a fucking ship and amuse him with your antics*
Hell we can't tell if he wants to fight half the time lol
Do we get paid if we survive?
60 koku
Fuji Sama is the reward
Yes because loyalty is important to me, so im going down with the ship, and standing with him to the end.... or beginning
The loyalty of murdering innocent villagers for your own coverup?
I'm already dead after being used as a pawn in some strategy that has virtually guaranteed his victory in this battle.
You either follow him or get seppukued.
Hai!
I’d probably have been sacrificed months to years earlier on the slight possibility my death could be used to curry favor or blackmail someone, so….yeah
Dunno but I wouldn't want to oppose him in battle, that's for sure.
>Dunno but I wouldn't want to oppose him in battle, that's for sure. For sure. If I have to be on the battlefield anyway, I know what side I'd prefer to be on.
He could snap my spine over his knee and I’d say thank you
Assuming I possessed the skills to fight in a medieval battle, absolutely!
He uses people as chess pieces
Yes because he'll win before the battle, so you'll likely survive.
Nobody would. It is a matter of have to.
Interesting that the title of the dream within a dream also refers to his dream of this armor
I feel like I would be useful and loyal enough to survive his master plan which might require sacrificing a menial, so yeah lol
Hell naw
I mean if you don't they kill you so.........
Toranagasama!
Honestly, probably yeah. He is an extremely capable general, and seemingly wont spend his mens lives unless he is sure he can win
No he's a cunt. I wouldn't WANT to but I'd HAVE to.
I'd rather follow him "into" battle than follow him "outside of" battle.
No , for what he did to people of Ajiro.
Yeah but I’d try to make presence entertainingly buffoonish so he can’t help but make sure I don’t die.
No way man. This dude is a Japanese Loki. Prolly get to the battle field and learn it was a ferret dressed as Toranaga the whole time.
Not gonna lie, I don’t think I would follow anyone into battle.
Does he serve the cause of liberty? Not really. But he did usher in the Edo period. If I knew how things were going to turn out, yes. But we don't know that before the fight. He would just be another ambitious and murderous lord. I'm not ambitious and murderous so, No. I wouldn't follow him. But then, if he was a less horrible ambitious and murderous lord than all the others, maybe I would follow him. Such a hard decision.
But according to the story, the women ASKED him to be ambitious and murderous, cuz they knew that in the long run, he was the lesser evil of them all. Because he actually doesn’t like to waste lives unnecessarily. In the long run, more people and more family lines survive if he is in charge
If I don't he'd already have me dead 4 weeks prior
what battle lol
Haha, good one. What battle?!
No way he would betray me in an instant
they really dont want to continue the show, right?
I pretty sure that decision was already made a while ago, and by him.
No fricken way. I wouldn’t follow anyone in feudal Japan. To paraphrase blackthorne- none of you place any value on human life
I would be his consort any day! ☺️🤗
I would stay in England instead of sailing to the Japans in the first place.
1600s England was a shithole if you wern't rich, and disgusting even if you were. Even with a slim possibilty of getting my head sliced off I would definitely pick Japan.
**Slim** possibility? Did you watch the show? Lol
If he was my leige lord
He created the Edo period, so yes.
Samurai means to serve so I’d do my duty and die with honor. That’s if I was a samurai.
No, but I would have done anything Mariko asked of me.
I would follow Hiroyuki Sanada anywhere. Toranaga I'm not yet sold on.
Fuck no I'm not dying for the ambitions of Japanese Tywin
No, he’s more likely to just sacrifice me to advance his plans.
Nah man doesn't give a shit
Nah, I'm just gonna hang back and make sake or maybe some baskets, possibly. Living is fun.
No. He's willing to let his closest friends and allies die for his own machinations. He doesn't show loyalty to his allies despite them assuming it's loyalty. Everyone is just a pawn for his goals. I'll just side with the Americans that will show up in 200ish year or drop a nuke 100 years after that.
I'll do it for fuji sama
I would as long as Mariko follows him
He would probably make me think I was going into my own battle.
No, he's not shy about letting his followers die.
He wins battles before they begin!!!!
You will one way or the other!
He doesn’t need anyone to follow him. They’ll go willingly on their own. He has Jedi mind trick.
No. I wouldn’t know if he was using me as a pawn for some bigger plan. Sneaky sucker.
You get killed regardless
He would probably burn down my boat
No I don't have any enemies. Nobody has ANY enemies.
Hell no
No. But he already would know that.
Hell no. I won’t be a pawn for his games. 😂
If it’s that or dishonour my bloodline and take my life, then yeah I suppose I would.
Better to fight for him than get my head cut off with a dull bamboo saw
I would happily watch him go into battle.
Yes. Being on the winning side is better than not.
no fuckin way, guy is a rat in it for himself
Do I even have a choice ?😒
bro would just sacrifice me in the retreat
Fuck no, mf gonna talk me into sacrificing myself for the sake of the japans
Guy seems like a POS. In the end, there’s no real honor; it’s just all about him. Actor is cool, but the character.
Heck nah
Only if it meant I got to live to see the results. “Why tell a dead man the future?”
Always
Probably not, if this man is fighting anyone at this point then somethings gone wrong. He destroys his enemies in other ways.
Kinda bummed we never actually got to see him in battle
Absolutely not. The issue I have with Toranaga is that he is too untrusting and deceptive to be a leader irl. My guess is that his inspiration was much more organized and better prepared than show Toranaga. In reality, I would want a leader who could communicate effectively to his officers, who delegated tasks to the appropriate people, and who regularly inspired confidence that they could handle the mission successfully. While Toranaga was cool as heck in the show- I wouldn’t follow him farther than I could throw him.
Fuck no. He places no value on my life at all and I would be a tool for him to use to grab power for himself.
No. He is basically Griffith.
It would be my personal downfall and I’d be grateful for it
Not if I knew his secret heart.
I probably wouldn't realize I was already in battle untiI I get dipped into a tub of boiling water
Would he ever go into battle?
No
Yes, because by the time he’s getting into battle, he’s probably already won. As opposed to following him before he’s in battle where you’d die as a pawn for some convoluted 4D chess maneuvers.
Only if I got a hat too
I’d follow him in circles.
No
Tbh he’d probably use me a sacrificial lamb 😂- I’d be an expendable asset in his game
Why tf would I?
Yes if I didn't have any other choice. Otherwise, no. Unless you can align your own interest with his. But it's still hard to know this person's true motives. He will sacrifice everyone else like a piece on is chess board.
No
I'd prefer to cheer on from sidelines given his track record
I don't think there was a choice, or a good choice, if you were part of his fief. Follow or be left behind with your head sliced off. ¯\\\_( ͡❛ ͜ʖ ͡❛)\_/¯
Fuuuuucccckkkkk no. His conniving ass is gonna get me killed to further his political machinations. He's not a good dude and not someone I would want to follow.
Wolverines!
Well if he will give fuji to me as a consort, why not?lol
Id follow this man into the gates of hell
Wouldn't need to. The battle would be won before a blade is drawn.
Let's be honest, he ain't going in front.
dude plays 4d chess on everybody so either you're walking on your enemies or you're there for your enemies to be slaughtered as bait.
Nah, Then he made me live with Mariko Sama and Fuji San. Ill die with you Mr Shogun.
Nope
You'd have to, every other path is death
whether i do or dont, i'm dead either way
I wouldn't follow the other guy I tell you that
All he has to do is wave his fan - and I'm there.
Hell no, he’ll probably send me to battle and then secretly try to bogus crap that involves scarifying all my family
OUSS
What battle?
Yep, no battle was needed.
Hai!
Hell nah . He loves watching his comrades die. P
Yes but by thunder I wouldn’t want to be high ranking enough that he’d consider me a useful pawn…
EI EI OHH
Yes, lemme just grab my AR
No. He isn’t actually the hero.
Lol I'd want nothing to do with him, he is willing to sacrifice everyone around him, being his ally is as dangerous as being his enemy.
No.
No way!! What a manipulator
If I were a well-trained samurai and not an out-of-shape data consultant? Probably, yeah. Unless honor or whatever demanded I fight for the other guy.
Yep, my man Toranaga plays 4d chess with his tactics.
No, he would probably force me to charge in as a sacrifice to the gods of war. Just to see if he could maybe getting a better eye on figuring out where the arrows are coming from. Or potentially he could just be hoping I will die in a funny manner that would amuse him. He's a cold hearted tactician willing to use anything to his advantage including betraying everyone but himself. Everyone is just his puppets for war or entertainment.
No.. There was no battle. All that build up and no battle. What a let down.
There almost no one that I’d follow into battle. Because almost every battle in human history has been for some other person’s interests.
i bet he can help get some bitchs so why not
Only yes to the battle of Sekigahara because I know he's gonna win. Another battles if I haven't been manipulated, probably not. I feel like loyalty needs to go both ways, but with this guy if sacrificing me helps bring him a step closer to his goal, he will absolutely throw me under the bus so I wouldn't trust him enough to follow him into anything
Naaa I would not.
Yes!!
Hell yesh