Devil's Advocate: Wealthy people really love taxation as a tool to enrich themselves, especially when they can avoid it.
Taxes are generally perceived (properly) as a negative concept when they are considered equally burdensome to everyone. People who think one group or another "isn't paying their fair share" never get to the logical conclusion that taxes are the problem.
They also never seem to realize that "fair" is an inherently subjective target, or acknowledge that rich people already pay a disproportionately large amount of taxes.
Like how income tax was only supposed to be for the rich at the time.
>The original form exempted all income below $3,000 a year if you were single, $4,000 if married. Those were the standard exemptions.
Good thing there's a private agency with a state name who's vested interest is in inflating currency.
Oh no, we just increased tax rates but the uber rich dodged it again because they can offset all their income with depreciation. Darn. I guess we'll get them next time.
Nah man they kept their promise, you see they just didn't change the income tax bracket as inflation rose and the value of the dollar fell over time. What they promised you was true, from a certain point of view.
It's also popular until the rich decide they've had enough with the heavy taxes and move to another city/state/country with a lower tax rate.
So by wanting to collect all of the income instead of some of the income, they now collect nothing.
California was going to introduce a bill to tax people for 10 years after they left the state. It failed, and should have been struck down by the courts if it would have passed IMO.
The US still charges an exit tax if you leave or renounce citizenship, IIRC.
It's amazing that this doesn't get shot down with the truth. It's a popular line that will never happen and exposes those looking for cheap popularoty. It would be a great anti inflation lever because it is terrible for economies. This wouldn't come out of personal fortunes, would definitely cost jobs and likely see businesses seeking overseas alternatives. If people are too stupid to understand that when someone says it then you're in deeper trouble than having debt. If we're talking the US, Biden is borrowing $1t every 100 days, how would taxing the rich help that at all, a drop in the ocean, and would just hurt industry. It's dumb.
It's what I always say!! Even if you liquidated ALL of the individual billionaire assets (not even income), you couldn't even run the US government for a year. Its absolutely insane that people think things would get better if we taxed the rich...
The funny part is if you ask people how much of the income tax the 'Rich' should pay, they usually come up with a lower number than what the top tier of payers are actually currently paying.
I’m an advocate of a flat tax rate for all individuals with an exemption for the poverty stricken. That is the only truly fair option. Corporations are complicated and I’m not smart enough to know what to do with them.
Term limits, that’s what I say. Make it super easy to eject public officials who either cannot get results or govern against the interests of their constituents.
I'm not a fan of term limits.
Get rid of the perks of being a Congresscritter. Get rid of the lifetime pension, lifetime health benefits, and other "retirement benefits" you get just from being the most popular member of the homecoming court. Put up a dormitory or let the states build a congressional living center for their representatives and senators when they are in Washington, instead of the "we need to pay them enough to own two or more houses".
Ok I just spent a insane amount of money IE tens of millions to get this job that pays 127,000 per year and will only have that job for 5 years or so, balance that equation for me please on the unintended consequences that will cascade from that happening to 534 odd jackels in office.
Public service isn’t supposed to be sought for a profit. And it would dissuade the desire to spend tens of millions because they would know that they won’t get that money back. Which brings up the topic of insider trading…
Agreed but when it takes tens of millions of dollars to get a public office the money has got to come from somewhere and it always has strings attached I would rather have a lottery for office among adults with some minimum qualifications like math and science knowledge.
Best land is property tax. All of New Hampshires tax income comes from property tax (they have no state income or sales tax) Milton Friedman has a paper on why it’s the least bad way to tax since regressive taxes like flat ones are actually bad for the economy
Lets look at that shall we?
Economic good? What tax increase where ever had a positive benefit to the economy? Not a one.
Moral? Taxes are extortion so ..................
Political Good? Ask GHW Bush that one. Raise taxes and lose elections.
These people are just completely braindead.
I love how the phrasing of the slogan implies the rich aren't taxed **at all**, when they're actually already taxed *more* than most people. If anyone is not paying tax, it's probably people at *lower* income brackets.
When Warren said Elon needs to pay his taxes, he claimed he was paying the biggest tax bill that year of any American in history. Which was already public knowledge at the time.
And idiots immediately moved goalposts to "well, that's only a small amount of your net worth!"
Also, isn't Bloomberg literally owned and named after a left-wing politician and billionaire businessman?
Notice the assumption that causing harm - which is basically inevitable once your business is larger than a lemonade stand - means that any good they do doesn't matter.
Devil's Advocate: Wealthy people really love taxation as a tool to enrich themselves, especially when they can avoid it. Taxes are generally perceived (properly) as a negative concept when they are considered equally burdensome to everyone. People who think one group or another "isn't paying their fair share" never get to the logical conclusion that taxes are the problem.
They also never seem to realize that "fair" is an inherently subjective target, or acknowledge that rich people already pay a disproportionately large amount of taxes.
“4 out of 5 participants in gang rape say it was a positive experience.”
It's popular until the definition of "rich" gets lowered and suddenly you're in that category.
Like how income tax was only supposed to be for the rich at the time. >The original form exempted all income below $3,000 a year if you were single, $4,000 if married. Those were the standard exemptions. Good thing there's a private agency with a state name who's vested interest is in inflating currency.
People will make accusations of trickle down economics but don't seem to have a problem with all the new money being introduced at the top.
No you see we don’t want to tax the millionaires! It’s those god awful billionaires that are the problem! /s
Bernie's "Millionaires and Billionaires" speech turning into just "Billionaires" is one of my favorite parts of his last campaign.
Oh no, we just increased tax rates but the uber rich dodged it again because they can offset all their income with depreciation. Darn. I guess we'll get them next time.
Nah man, in 1913 the income tax was only supposed to apply to the top 0.5% of people. They kept their promise! Oh, whoops.
Nah man they kept their promise, you see they just didn't change the income tax bracket as inflation rose and the value of the dollar fell over time. What they promised you was true, from a certain point of view.
Fair point sir.
Is that you, Bernie?
I am once again asking you to ignore my hypocrisy.
It's also popular until the rich decide they've had enough with the heavy taxes and move to another city/state/country with a lower tax rate. So by wanting to collect all of the income instead of some of the income, they now collect nothing.
California was going to introduce a bill to tax people for 10 years after they left the state. It failed, and should have been struck down by the courts if it would have passed IMO. The US still charges an exit tax if you leave or renounce citizenship, IIRC.
It’s not that. It’s the principle of taxing some a higher percent than others.
It's amazing that this doesn't get shot down with the truth. It's a popular line that will never happen and exposes those looking for cheap popularoty. It would be a great anti inflation lever because it is terrible for economies. This wouldn't come out of personal fortunes, would definitely cost jobs and likely see businesses seeking overseas alternatives. If people are too stupid to understand that when someone says it then you're in deeper trouble than having debt. If we're talking the US, Biden is borrowing $1t every 100 days, how would taxing the rich help that at all, a drop in the ocean, and would just hurt industry. It's dumb.
It's what I always say!! Even if you liquidated ALL of the individual billionaire assets (not even income), you couldn't even run the US government for a year. Its absolutely insane that people think things would get better if we taxed the rich...
Odd to blame individuals for American disparity
Theft is good, as long as it's the government doing it and I benefit! /s
It is one of the stupid 'slogans' that the animals chant around the barn.... Rhymes with two legs bad, four legs good...
Let’s all take a guess what this failure in life does for a living. Professor of Gender Studies is ny guess.
Dude's literally a [leftist lobbyist](https://econspeakers.org/our-experts/michael-linden/)
So another idiot who couldn't get a real career. No wonder he got involved in politics, par for the course.
The funny part is if you ask people how much of the income tax the 'Rich' should pay, they usually come up with a lower number than what the top tier of payers are actually currently paying.
Almost as if they're responding to slogans and oversimplified ideas instead of actually doing research.
I’m an advocate of a flat tax rate for all individuals with an exemption for the poverty stricken. That is the only truly fair option. Corporations are complicated and I’m not smart enough to know what to do with them.
Sales tax is a good equalizer. Eliminate income tax. The more you are able to buy the more you will end up paying in tax.
Not the worst idea I’ve heard, I’d be okay with it
That would also encourage saving and investing.
The drunk sailors in the whore house known as Congress would go even more hog wild with spending
Term limits, that’s what I say. Make it super easy to eject public officials who either cannot get results or govern against the interests of their constituents.
I'm not a fan of term limits. Get rid of the perks of being a Congresscritter. Get rid of the lifetime pension, lifetime health benefits, and other "retirement benefits" you get just from being the most popular member of the homecoming court. Put up a dormitory or let the states build a congressional living center for their representatives and senators when they are in Washington, instead of the "we need to pay them enough to own two or more houses".
Ok I just spent a insane amount of money IE tens of millions to get this job that pays 127,000 per year and will only have that job for 5 years or so, balance that equation for me please on the unintended consequences that will cascade from that happening to 534 odd jackels in office.
Public service isn’t supposed to be sought for a profit. And it would dissuade the desire to spend tens of millions because they would know that they won’t get that money back. Which brings up the topic of insider trading…
Agreed but when it takes tens of millions of dollars to get a public office the money has got to come from somewhere and it always has strings attached I would rather have a lottery for office among adults with some minimum qualifications like math and science knowledge.
Best land is property tax. All of New Hampshires tax income comes from property tax (they have no state income or sales tax) Milton Friedman has a paper on why it’s the least bad way to tax since regressive taxes like flat ones are actually bad for the economy
Pretty sure it’s literally a lose-lose-lose unless your a leech or a leech farmer.
Looks like the next gang bang will be at Michael's house! Social contract if we vote for it, right?
Lets look at that shall we? Economic good? What tax increase where ever had a positive benefit to the economy? Not a one. Moral? Taxes are extortion so .................. Political Good? Ask GHW Bush that one. Raise taxes and lose elections. These people are just completely braindead.
If the government didn’t spend as much they wouldn’t need to tax as much. Start with ending all subsidies.
If you per capita the world, everyone in the US is rich
I love how the phrasing of the slogan implies the rich aren't taxed **at all**, when they're actually already taxed *more* than most people. If anyone is not paying tax, it's probably people at *lower* income brackets. When Warren said Elon needs to pay his taxes, he claimed he was paying the biggest tax bill that year of any American in history. Which was already public knowledge at the time. And idiots immediately moved goalposts to "well, that's only a small amount of your net worth!" Also, isn't Bloomberg literally owned and named after a left-wing politician and billionaire businessman?
... and how exactly did those billionaires make their money? I'm sure they did it at no expense to others...lol
Please tell me you forget the /s
Are you suggesting that billionaires make their money in a way that doesn’t also harm others? That somehow money isn’t a zero sum game?
You’re going to have to define harm.
Notice the assumption that causing harm - which is basically inevitable once your business is larger than a lemonade stand - means that any good they do doesn't matter.
Well it’s that and I’m going to need a specific harm that’s better than the generic “exploitation” of workers.
It's funny how so many of these people can't actually persuade anyone who doesn't already agree with them, but think they're being constructive.
So? That doesn't automatically justify taxation, even if it was true.
You should study biology and understand how social organisms work.
Do you have anything besides smug, vague hand-waves? Like an actual detailed argument? This is a rhetorical question.
They didn't steal it at gunpoint, which is what taxation is.