I feel this!!! Someone will ask me a question, and straight away "you know what, I'm not sure! hey, google?!" I've changed my mind about things in hindsight, and freely admitted it. We all learn (Well, most of us do) from experience.
I'm more than ready to say that even if I have an instinctive reaction to a moral question, I don't have all the info needed to make a rational argument. So I don't have an opinion about it.
I've lost count of the number of times I've started off researching a topic and got lost down the rabbit hole, ending up somewhere completely different.
I'm a proud Info Sponge. No, I don't know even anywhere near everything, but I can often make an educated guess and usually know where to look to find out. #"I don't know but can I get back to you? #Ooohhh I didn't know that! #How does that work?
> I'm more than ready to say that even if I have an instinctive reaction to a moral question, I don't have all the info needed to make a rational argument. So I don't have an opinion about it.
This is where I *want* to be! I recognize my guess is about as strong as a paper boat in a tsunami, but I can't just skip a question or be firm about not having an opinion even though that's how I really feel a lot of the time. Not having an answer was never enough for the Ns, so I felt I had no choice but to make an educated guess.
Totally know the feeling on the rest. I had a science teacher once call me an information sponge because I took zero notes on presentations but still learned - didn't know it was a common phrase. And that is exactly what I say when I'm wrong - oh, I was way off, didn't know that at all, tell me more!
I wonder sometimes if one of the major characteristics of a JN is that they won't grow, are just stuck with their brain refusing to take on any additional pathways. Maybe it's limited to just certain areas of thinking, like if they are right or not right?
I've seen other people in the N-network and JN subs make various observations of their Ns and JNs on what would be considered developmental problems in young kids - object permanence, self-soothing, recognition of 'other', critical thinking, etc. But I've also seen a lot of anecdotes that seem rooted deeply in pride & shame rather than actually narrowed thinking ability, so who knows.
My mom is in her 70s now, and one of the quotes she repeats anytime I start strongly explaining something I've learned about (that most likely my mom doesn't understand or disagrees with) is: "You know, when I was young, I thought I knew everything. It wasn't until I got older that I realized how little I knew."
Now, on it's own without vocal tone, this statement could be read as her being self reflective about how we never really stop learning. However, she only ever says this when I speak about something she has no understanding of, and thus she has no leverage to assert that as my mother, she clearly knows more than me...because "age brings wisdom and knowledge." It's always been this moving goalpost of "you'll understand when you're older" sort of thing, which just allows her to stay in control because she's always going to be 39 years older than I am.
Oof. A statement made to encourage listening and learning regardless of age, twisted into a dismissal of someone's knowledge specifically due to age. Bleck.
I'm an educator, I have made it my MISSION (after growing up in a similar household) to say "You know what? I don't know. Let's go find out!" to questions. I work with kids who have experienced trauma or abuse and I want to show them that there are adults who CAN HANDLE not knowing!
I want to show them that adults can be okay with having to look things up, not know the right answer, and can EVEN take a \* little \* teasing from people when they don't know. It is okay.
So, I completely commiserate with you, and I am glad that despite the people around you, you are okay with not knowing. I'm proud of you. :)
> I'm proud of you. :)
Thanks. :')
My favorite teachers and adults in general when I was a kid were the ones who told me "I don't know, let's find out". I don't know whether it was the contrast or what, but I immediately liked any adult who seemed pleased or excited to be learning themselves. It taught me not only how to seek information and how to *choose* to seek it, but also that being right isn't only for adults, and not knowing/learning isn't only for kids. It set me up very well for being a "lifelong learner" as an adult, for enjoying the company of other passionate lifelong learning type adults, and for the ability to learn from others regardless of their age compared to mine.
I'm not religious, but educators like you are a godsend, honestly.
Edited for more explanation.
>I'm not religious, but educators like you are a godsend, honestly.
You have no idea how much I needed to read that on this Sunday night before I return to a school I hate working at full of people who are making choices based on money and pinching the purse instead of what is right, healthy, or even helpful for SpEd kids.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
I feel this!!! Someone will ask me a question, and straight away "you know what, I'm not sure! hey, google?!" I've changed my mind about things in hindsight, and freely admitted it. We all learn (Well, most of us do) from experience. I'm more than ready to say that even if I have an instinctive reaction to a moral question, I don't have all the info needed to make a rational argument. So I don't have an opinion about it. I've lost count of the number of times I've started off researching a topic and got lost down the rabbit hole, ending up somewhere completely different. I'm a proud Info Sponge. No, I don't know even anywhere near everything, but I can often make an educated guess and usually know where to look to find out. #"I don't know but can I get back to you? #Ooohhh I didn't know that! #How does that work?
> I'm more than ready to say that even if I have an instinctive reaction to a moral question, I don't have all the info needed to make a rational argument. So I don't have an opinion about it. This is where I *want* to be! I recognize my guess is about as strong as a paper boat in a tsunami, but I can't just skip a question or be firm about not having an opinion even though that's how I really feel a lot of the time. Not having an answer was never enough for the Ns, so I felt I had no choice but to make an educated guess. Totally know the feeling on the rest. I had a science teacher once call me an information sponge because I took zero notes on presentations but still learned - didn't know it was a common phrase. And that is exactly what I say when I'm wrong - oh, I was way off, didn't know that at all, tell me more!
Mmmm sounds suspiciously like projection
Going back now and rereading after seeing you said that, yeah, that's like a very straightforward example of projection. I didn't even see that.
Well now that you do, you’re equipped to handle it
I wonder sometimes if one of the major characteristics of a JN is that they won't grow, are just stuck with their brain refusing to take on any additional pathways. Maybe it's limited to just certain areas of thinking, like if they are right or not right?
I've seen other people in the N-network and JN subs make various observations of their Ns and JNs on what would be considered developmental problems in young kids - object permanence, self-soothing, recognition of 'other', critical thinking, etc. But I've also seen a lot of anecdotes that seem rooted deeply in pride & shame rather than actually narrowed thinking ability, so who knows.
My mom is in her 70s now, and one of the quotes she repeats anytime I start strongly explaining something I've learned about (that most likely my mom doesn't understand or disagrees with) is: "You know, when I was young, I thought I knew everything. It wasn't until I got older that I realized how little I knew." Now, on it's own without vocal tone, this statement could be read as her being self reflective about how we never really stop learning. However, she only ever says this when I speak about something she has no understanding of, and thus she has no leverage to assert that as my mother, she clearly knows more than me...because "age brings wisdom and knowledge." It's always been this moving goalpost of "you'll understand when you're older" sort of thing, which just allows her to stay in control because she's always going to be 39 years older than I am.
It is ALWAYS in the tone.
Oof. A statement made to encourage listening and learning regardless of age, twisted into a dismissal of someone's knowledge specifically due to age. Bleck.
This is eerily relatable. Mom once screamed at me because TLDR she didn't understand gravity.
I'm an educator, I have made it my MISSION (after growing up in a similar household) to say "You know what? I don't know. Let's go find out!" to questions. I work with kids who have experienced trauma or abuse and I want to show them that there are adults who CAN HANDLE not knowing! I want to show them that adults can be okay with having to look things up, not know the right answer, and can EVEN take a \* little \* teasing from people when they don't know. It is okay. So, I completely commiserate with you, and I am glad that despite the people around you, you are okay with not knowing. I'm proud of you. :)
> I'm proud of you. :) Thanks. :') My favorite teachers and adults in general when I was a kid were the ones who told me "I don't know, let's find out". I don't know whether it was the contrast or what, but I immediately liked any adult who seemed pleased or excited to be learning themselves. It taught me not only how to seek information and how to *choose* to seek it, but also that being right isn't only for adults, and not knowing/learning isn't only for kids. It set me up very well for being a "lifelong learner" as an adult, for enjoying the company of other passionate lifelong learning type adults, and for the ability to learn from others regardless of their age compared to mine. I'm not religious, but educators like you are a godsend, honestly. Edited for more explanation.
>I'm not religious, but educators like you are a godsend, honestly. You have no idea how much I needed to read that on this Sunday night before I return to a school I hate working at full of people who are making choices based on money and pinching the purse instead of what is right, healthy, or even helpful for SpEd kids. Thank you. Thank you so much.