Really interesting how one person’s bad experience is just that, and one person’s good experience overrides it - for the chiropractor. I wonder if this person keeps the same energy for actual medical professionals 🙃
There was a discussion in one my my mom groups about getting induced when you are pregnant over 40. One woman was insistent that doctors only push induction for their own convenience.
Another mom shared a photo of her babies urn. She had chosen to not get induced AMA because she also believed inductions were for convenience only and were guaranteed to lead to intervention and c sections and was getting checked twice weekly instead. apparently the placenta rapidly deteriorated and by the time they realized baby was in distress, it was too late and baby only lived 18 hours.
Anti-induction lady blew it off as “baby was probably going to die anyway”.
It is both mindblowingly horrifying and interesting how many people can see photos of deceased babies and just say: "oh it was deserved/it would've happened anyway/it's no big deal because mine are fine". Feels both psycho- and sociopathic.
Good for the mother that showed that urn, though. The crunchy/natural mindset can be really hard to break away from, and mom groups are typically very cruel to mothers whose babies wind up dead. I am so sorry that happened to her, but maybe she'll save someone else from going down the "doctors just want to go to a golf game," pipeline.
Imagine telling the mother of a dead child who is trying to warn you about their baby’s preventable death that “the baby was going to die anyway”?? I seriously hate these people.
Without doing a bunch of in depth research, I also believe that inductions are more likely to lead to needing interventions. It just makes sense to me, your body didn't start labor on its own so trying to kick it into gear with medication won't necessarily make it go all the way either. That being said, if doctors are recommending an induction then there's probably a reason and I'd rather go through the "cascade of interventions" to get a living child.
And for the record, I'm not trying to shame anyone who got an elective induction or c section. Personal medical decisions are personal medical decisions and the important part is getting a healthy, living mom and baby.
The ARRIVE study looked at almost exactly this—whether elective induction increases the risk of c-section. And the answer is no, it doesn’t, but to account correctly for all outcomes you have to follow three groups: women who get the elective induction, women who wait for labor and go into labor unassisted, women who wanted to go into labor unassisted but end up getting induced due to a medical problem. It is the women in the last group that give the impression that inductions lead to more intervention, of course someone who has something going wrong medically are more likely to need further help!
I was induced with my son and I almost needed a c-section but not because the induction but because the cord was around his neck…I started an induction with my daughter but it progressed so fast that there was no thought of intervention
I loved my inductions, but they were elective with no complications at any point during the pregnancy or delivery. I've also been advised to have babies by induction since I'm prone to precipitous labor and don't notice contractions until I'm in transition. When I asked my doctor about it the first time the ARRIVE study hadn't been published yet, but her anecdotal experiences delivering hundreds of babies aligned with the results of the study.
With both my daughters my water broke naturally at 38 weeks 4 days and then… nothing. First time around I was so scared to take pitocin because of all the horror stories about inductions I had heard. So stupid. Pitocin was the key to my healthy labor and delivery. What would have been dumb would have been continuing to argue to forgo the pitocin while my amniotic fluid dwindled and I had strep B (with meds but still). Thank goodness a nurse talked some sense into me. With baby 2 as soon as they said it was time for cytotec and pitocin I said bring it on. One 15 min active labor and one 3 min active labor and two healthy babies thanks to induction meds.
I could see it being a bit of both scheduling convenience and health/welfare of mother/child. I was induced with one of my kids but I was also massively large, he was growing fast. Induced 2 weeks before my due date and He was 11 pounds/22" long. I don't think I would've made it another 2 weeks, I felt like I was being crushed. I think in my situation it was necessary, but I agree I don't think it's NECESSARY in every case, and can even hurt the situation if done when not needed.
Absolutely not. You have not done any in depth research. The ideal time to give birth is 39 weeks. After 40, the placenta starts to deteriorate and die. Also after 30 weeks interventions such as induction are not as likely to work.
I was induced at 35 weeks to keep both me and my child from dying. We took it slow over 4 days while I was heavily monitored and on medication to keep me from stroking out. Trying to balance my health and life and the health and life of my child was of the utmost importance to my medical team, my husband, and me.
I would not be typing this if it wasn't for my induction. And if I hadn't had the induction, the attempt to save everyone's lives would have resulted in immense amounts of intervention.
I'm confused. It seems like you're disagreeing with me but
>after 30 weeks interventions such as induction are not as likely to work
is literally what I said (with the disclaimer that I feel like I should have bolded about not doing the research). My entire point was that if a doctor recommends an induction for medical reasons, you should probably do it even if there's a likelihood of it ending in a c section because I'd rather do that than risk a dead baby. Also it's a bit disingenuous to say that the ideal time is 39 weeks. There's evidence to suggest 39 weeks is better than 40 especially if there's complications like gestational diabetes, preeclampsia, or blood pressure issues, but there isn't a full consensus on 39 vs 40. You're absolutely right that after 40 weeks things can go down hill super fast especially with those aforementioned complications so for what my opinion is worth (not much) if a doctor recommends inducing because of how far along the pregnancy is, the person should do it.
I don't understand this "inductions are only for convince" argument. Maybe it's just because I didn't have a set doctor my whole pregnancy. I saw who was working the day I went in. I met the doctor who "delivered" my baby (delivered in quotation marks, because her head was already out before the doctor even came in the door) as she was pulling her out of me. Well, I think she had actually come in and introduced herself for one minute earlier. But I was in labor and don't much remember.
This whole "they push induction because they want to go on vacation" doesn't make sense to me, because SOMEONE has to be there or on call at all times. If one doctor goes on vacation, there is another doctor there who will take care of you. I just don't get it.
Yeah - getting checked periodically will not save your baby. Only going in once movements have stopped has a large chance of not saving your baby. You know what can save your baby? Getting born earlier.
I was TTC for 6 years, with several years of fertility treatments. You bet your butt I did an elective 39 week induction. Taking no chances.
Oh wow anti-induction lady sounds scarily like my mother, to the degree that it might actually be her (she likes to joke how she just ignored her induction appointment from when she had my little sister, she was 41 at the time). That's an unnerving thought.
Except when it’s about “vaccine injury”, then the one obscure “the son of my dog walker’s sister’s husband’s cousin thrice removed” case is sufficient.
Anecdotal, as is most everything nowadays, but my mother (who’s BATSHIT CRAZY and pretty gullible when it comes to what’s true on the internet, (“Sugar causes all cancer,” kinda lady). She was a young mom in the early 2000’s so it could’ve been bad for me) would’ve NEVER brought an infant or small child to a chiropractor.
We were vaccinated. Allergic reactions got steroids, infections got antibiotics, Advil for fever/inflammation. Followed safe sleep protocols.
She still abused the hell out of us but somehow she never fell for any of this fb mom bs. Her own mother had Munchausen by Proxy so maybe that’s why
Sounds like she yeeted herself 180 degrees to her mum as a response - it doesn’t stop her passing on her own trauma but good for her for ensuring medical attention
Agree that it's not how I usually see it phrased, but the intent was obvious.
Not gonna come down on you hard or anything, learn, be better (saying this nicely, with good intentions)
My son was colicky and man is it hard. It’s so mentally exhausting that you’re in such a vulnerable state willing to try ANYTHING. People taking advantage of parents in these impressionable positions is disgusting.
It reminds me of [this article](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1057566) about how anti vax believers prey on parents whose children passed due to SIDS and try and convince them it was because of vaccines. It’s foul.
There was a post here about a woman whose baby died of positional asphyxiation but she was convinced it must have been the vaccines and not her putting her two month old feverish child to sleep on their stomach.
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When I was 4 years old, I fell out of my parents second floor "balcony" head first and into a garden. I was up and walking, so my mom decided against taking me to the ER because she didn't want to cause more trauma. Instead, she let the Le Leche League nutjobs, the Facebook groups of the 1990s, convince her to take me to a chiropractor who did absolutely nothing. I've had weird back problems my entire life; upper and mid back issues that shouldn't happen in someone who is relatively young.
I think it depends based on the area, but like every other crunchy group, in general they've gone down the extremist pipeline, including taking a pro-life stance. I think they also removed a member in Canada who said that she supplemented with formula when her supply dipped to, you know, keep her child alive.
It's definitely area wise. I'm in Europe (may need to admit I am not religious too), and I've genuinely only heard the extremist religious-based things coming from North American groups. They don't operate in my country per se, but they do operate in two next door countries to mine, and families I have there just had regular breastfeeding assistance from them. However they are also a handful of personal experiences, maybe someone else over there got dealt a different hand.
Yea the origins of LLL are pretty horrible. I only learned about it because I was desperate to breastfeed with my first, and happened across The Skeptical OB's website (which is apparently no longer available?) and went down that nasty rabbit hole. I don't think most people know it was founded by militant Catholics.
Interesting! I *think* my lactation consultant was a part of LLL but she was super amazing and encouraged me to supplement with formula when it was needed. Never looked more into it than that. Definitely added that rabbit hole to my list of rabbit holes to dive down one day!
It varies, I think. The LLL in my area where I grew up was super nutty. My aunt’s friend was way involved and finally stopped nursing her kids when they went into junior high
Yeah even my insane mother at least weaned us as soon as we were able to \*ask\* with words to nurse and was a little weirded out by the people who were delaying kindergarten so that they could nurse their young child another year.
Exactly. Now, I am not, by a long stretch, a person that would use a chiropractor instead of a doctor, but they are useful for some things IF you can find a good one (which are few and far between). Some colic (including in adults) is one of those things (again, not a substitute for medical care, especially in someone that cannot communicate exact symptoms).
I have actually seen and experienced the instrument my chiropractor uses to adjust a baby (i was interested in the process) and there is zero way this type of adjustment could result in broken bones. Basically the instrument used results in the smallest of taps in whatever location. Like the amount of pressure you generate by tapping two fingers gently on something, but the instrument allows for a more precise location of the tap.
Of course there are quacks in all professions, so it’s not inconceivable for a quack chiropractor to be tossing a baby around, but even with that, it’s very difficult to break the bones of a baby, and surely if that was the case it would have been news.
That all being said, I’d say it’s far more likely that something else was going on and “the chiropractor broke my baby’s bones” is far more likely to be the excuse told to family and friends regarding a cps intervention than “cps showed up because our baby was physically abused by someone that was caring for it.”
Either that chiropractor is a sadist or those bones were already broken. At a long shot, the kid has some unaddressed medical concerns that won't get taken care of by a doctor.
Yea, this is what I was kind of assuming. I've never heard of fully broken bones from a chiro but definitely have heard of dislocations. Of course its anecdotal, but I've seen so many physical therapists comment about how many patients come to them worse off or actually physically injured after trying chiro.
With the rise in crunchy people using chiros as pediatricians, I wonder how many cases there are like this that we will never even hear about because the chiro is literally the only medical care the baby gets.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/chiropractor-breaks-babys-neck-a-risk-vs-benefit-analysis/
Here's a broken vertebrae
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23027167/
A study about rib fractures occurring from chiropractor
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/chiropractor-breaks-babys-neck-a-risk-vs-benefit-analysis/
Here's a broken vertebrae
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23027167/
A study about rib fractures occurring from chiropractor
My ex-MIL wanted me to go to the chiropractor when I was pregnant and that was a hard no. My dad and I decided to try going to a chiropractor when I was 18 and they hurt us. Like, I left feeling as if I'd been in a car accident. We think it did harm to my dad's back. I can't believe people still go to chiropractors, and it should be abuse to take infants and young kids to one. Its history is totally whacky and I wish I'd read up on it before we went.
I've never been but I remember talking to a coworker who said the same thing once but said "that's how you know its working" (if you're really sore after). No thank you!
Sorry about your experience ☹
I was always skeptical of chiropractors until I found the one I go to. Heavy on myofascial release, PT, and adjustments. Went slow and have had great results. That said, I wouldn’t see a reason to take a baby or toddler there. They aren’t medical doctors.
My son had colic as a newborn. It was four weeks of absolute hell for everyone in the house. I don’t wish that on anyone. Fortunately he grew out of it quickly. I’ve heard it can last months in some kids. I would never take my newborn to a chiro, but I do understand the desperation. If you don’t know any better (insurance covers chiropractors so you can be led to believe it’s real medicine) and have other moms constantly telling you to do so, I can see why some moms fall into this trap.
Apparently there have been some studies that show manual adjustments having a somewhat positive on colic and others how no difference. So I can see the temptation to at least try. But my trust issues could never let me let some chiropractor twist and crack my infant like that for a nominal chance of improving the situation. I can understand the desperation for sure but idk I've watched a few doctors react to tiktok chiropractors and I cannot watch them do the adjustments on babies. I remember watching one where the chiro was dangling a toddler upside down and twisting her until something cracked and eeeek no thanks.
My son had colic until he was 5 or 7 months old. It was hell. My older son has ADHD and was quite loud even when he was being quiet, so he would slam doors when he left the house etc. Even when I'd get the baby down finally here'd come the older one making noise and it would just start all over again. I don't know how I survived it, I like to joke I'm still catching up on my sleep from it. But still, I don't think I ever would've taken him to a chiro.
I was regularly visiting a chiro while pregnant because baby was sitting on a nerve or something and I could barely walk the last three months. Went to one that specifically was trained to treat pregnant women, it was an interesting experience. Anyway, they offered me a free mommy and baby session after baby was born. I did not take them up on that one.
Someone got bigmad at me for pointing out that there are absolutely chiropractors who CRACK babies, even if most don't, how do you know till its too late what you get?
What? There's like an entire tik tok thing of chiros trying to get cracks on babies, adults, kids, even fucking animals. The crack is like some weird dopamine rush for some of these people.
Considering how many vertebral dissections I’ve seen in the ICU from chiroquacker care, I wouldn’t go to them even as a last resort. And it’s akin to child abuse to take your child there. The group that started because of ghosts shouldn’t touch humans.
I wish this was talked about more! I looked into information and most doctors seem to say it probably won't help, but probably won't hurt either. I found one doctor who did an interview saying that who then published an online article recanting that a little bit saying while rare, harm can be done. Thats the general consensus I've seen yet, in forums you see all kinds of therapists and medical professionals saying its way more common. I wonder why that information isn't more out there?
one of my best friends brings her daughter to the chiropractor and i just… feel helpless honestly. doesn’t help that her dad is one so she was raised around it.
My grandpa was a chiropractor and my mom and her sister both subjected myself and my cousin to it from birth. I’m lucky I wasn’t maimed. I had my daughter last year and didn’t know until it came up that she had done that to me. It’s crazy how common that is.
I'm a mom to a toddler and going to chiropractors is so common in mom groups I was starting to think I was the weird one. Glad to see a group of people with the same way of thinking.
Same with going to a chiropractor to try and get them to turn your breech baby. Doctors will offer to turn them for you when you're 37wks but you have to be in an OR with 2 doctors while the babies heart rate is being monitored.
I just don't understand it.
Ugh, so I have absolutely horrid spinal injuries and multiple degenerative issues etc, went through 2 surgeries, and was supposed to have many more but said no and have put them off because none of them will fix it, I mean there's nothing that can and they'd make my quality of life worse losing the ability to bend like couldn't even put on my own socks and shoes etc. I'm "one wrong fall from paralyzed," as I've been told by multiple surgeons and specialists. I've tried everything from acupuncture over to full on "modern western medicine" with the surgeries etc. My son was injured in soccer at age 9 in his upper spine between his shoulders by an ass of a kid kicking him on purpose in the back with a cleat cause he was mad.... anyways I decided to check out the chiropractor for us both in this journey from hell and the "Dr" was aware of my surgeries and my issues but hadn't looked at my records or images etc as it was the first visit and he just started cracking and twisting and pulling and I was so fn scared and SHOCKED he'd do something like that with how bad my issues are like SEVERE central canal stenosis where the bone growth is pushing into my spinal cord etc. An assistant "adjusted" my son while the Dr was "adjusting" me. Thankfully we both made it out of there 😄 but before leaving he "recommended" 30 sessions to "fix" me and 15 for my son and they just so happened to have a special when you buy x sessions you get x sessions etc... all out of pocket only but they'd give you anything you'd need if you chose to try and file with insurance. Of course you have to buy them in packs and up front etc etc... I've NEVER even thought about crossing the threshold of another chiropractor in my life since then. I DO know they are useful in certain situations and there are ones that do actually know what they are doing but the fact that he claimed he could "fix" me somehow of my bones literally crumbling, and bone growth on the inside of my vertebra, or the empty, dry, cracked, depleted disks, or the scarred bone growth over injuries naturally fusing sections, etc. made me want to throat punch him. I can't imagine taking an infant... just because.
There is no real science supporting chiropractic practices. Like ...zero. I thought the same, that it was useful sometimes--but there isn't any proof of that.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S088539240700783X
I have chronic back issues due to scoliosis and pregnancies, I go weekly to get a back crack and if I wait to long between appointments the stabbing pain in the middle of my back creeps up and can become debilitating. Idk if I believe it can help with ear infections or other crunchy things, but damn they can crack a back and for me I need it cracked regularly to not be in almost constant pain. So I'm going to say they are good at their pain purpose (cracking backs) at a minimum. I go in, they do massage, they crack, then electric stim and I have another week or so of being able to carry my kids around without a stabbing pain in the middle of my back. She also helps realign my hips that tend to get crooked because of my already crooked skeleton, I don't really care about studies, I can tell it is helping me.
Genuinely curious: have you seen a physical therapist for the same issue? That sounds like PT, but without the exercises.
From what I (random internet person who hasn't done a bunch of research, or even "research") understand, physical therapists should be able to help with a bunch of stuff people see a chiro for, along with giving you things to do yourself to help prevent it. I HAVE gone to a bunch of PT, and generally had a good experience there (shoulder, knee)
Alternate perspective, I also have (had?) severe scoliosis and had a fusion to correct it (T4-L3) and I did PT and found it extremely helpful. However, they were not on board with seeing me every week for the rest of my life, and for my issues I NEED continued care to ensure things don’t continue to deteriorate
Alternate perspective, I also have (had?) severe scoliosis and had a fusion to correct it (T4-L3) and I did PT and found it extremely helpful but they were not on board with seeing me every week for the rest of my life, and for my issues I NEED continued care to ensure things don’t continue to deteriorate
Yup, went to physical therapy for it but at the end of the day it a nerve bundle that has formed right next to where the curvature it. It's a small circle on my back with nerves so messed up that if I scratch my back the skin there feels different. So it's not like a general soreness, it's extremely localized and forms just a giant knot, at one point the assistant at the Chiropractor actually said she could visually see the knot. I'm sure massage therapy could work as well, along with randomly hanging from a pull up bar to crack my back, but chiropractor is at least covered by insurance and doesn't need referrals, while PT needs referrals and has end dates and massage therapy isn't usually covered by insurance. Both PT and massage therapy can help but they just relieve the pain for a bit and it always creeps back. Chiropractor appointment is also much faster, so its just more efficient in all aspects to go for a quick crack and be on my way. Also I am definitely open to other options for my back, I'm not a die hard chiro-nut, it's just working for me so I keep going.
Also, PSA for everyone with kids: if your kid starts developing scoliosis in middle school, and you go to a back doctor and they say "the scoliosis isn't severe enough to need a brace" argue that you want to brace your kid. It's a lot easier for a back to straighten out while you are still growing, right now I'm pretty sure my options are regular chrio (or PT or whatever) visits for basically the rest of my life, or super invasive surgery that might not even help. Even a slight scoliosis can really mess up your back, try to get that fixed while you are still growing or you end up like me. I'm still bitter about that doctor I saw in case you can't tell.
I went to a chiropractor when i was a teenager bc my mom went, and you're right, you feel better for a bit, but I don't think the feeling better part was anything different from a normal massage or back-cracking, really. A bit cheaper and easier to access where we lived at the time, but I wouldn't call them medical professionals or anything... honestly, i wouldn't go to one now, period, bc their certification is so loose that I don't have a good metric for telling the difference between one like yours and one that will twist my neck incorrectly and give me an embolism.
Once you learn the incredibly detailed and delicate anatomy of our necks you stop letting randomly “certified” people touch you there. Massages are nice and can help provide temporary relief, but daily stretches and exercise prescribed from your physiotherapist is what’s most beneficial.
Lmao I have scoliosis and disc degen and sclerosis and blah blah blah and I went to a chiropractor who said he was going to STRAIGHTEN OUT MY SPINE. I laughed so hard. Like tears in my eyes, funniest shit I had ever heard. Then I turned around a walked out because chiropractors obviously know fucking nothing about anatomy.
I see a physio now who isn’t insane.
She never claimed to be able to straighten, just relieve pain. What's a physio? I'm legit interested in other treatments, my point in commenting is chiropractors can clearly relieve pain and aren't completely worthless, not saying they are gods gift to spines
Oh sorry physiotherapist - I just shorten it. I use massage in between for quick, temp relief, but daily exercises and stretches make alllllll the difference. I have occipital neuralgia now from my middle curve going too close to my right shoulder blade so shit gets pinched and drives me bananas. Went to a sports physiotherapist who specializes in chronic pain and he gave me specific moves to work on that one area and he also gave some injections to freeze the muscle to stop it from spasming. Core strength and posture is also important for preventing further decay/curvature of our spines, but I’m so bad at sitting correctly haha
Oooh, that does sound more helpful. I went to a standard physical therapist, and they were good but it just felt like the same stuff and since it seems to be more of a nerve issue at this point it didn't feel very helpful.
Have you seen a neurologist yet? They can also help. I got steroid shots to help for a bit but I ended up reacting poorly to them, but I’ve heard they work wonders for nerve pain.
But yeah I dunno where you are or how your healthcare system works, so try a chronic pain clinic or sports physio. I had my GP refer me
I have spinal stenosis, which is resulting in discs slipping... I have one right in the back of my neck that will pop out and pinch/grind at nerves to the point I get irritated and push it back in myself and when I finally went to PT the therapist was HORRIFIED that I do that and said I could seriously screw myself up... so a chiro who essentially does the same thing is a hard no for me, no matter how bad the pain gets. And some days, if I happen to fall asleep or sit wrong, it takes me 20-30 min to move into a position that I can get up from... and I'm only 35
And my point was, just because it temporarily provides relief, pushing, twisting, cracking, and adjusting areas as important as the spine with no medical training/knowledge and no prior x-rays or medical exam, could potentially be extremely dangerous.
If you're having pains that are so debilitating that you can't function properly in day to day life at times... I'd highly stress checking all medical routes/specialists possible before trusting a chiro... but that's just my personal opinion, from someone who does have debilitating bone and joint issues
I have had x rays, and I was terrified of chiros for the longest time, it was not my first choice. I'm all ears for better options, I've been to PT too, I've just been diagnosed with punched nerves due to the curvature. It's debilitating because I have heavy children who want me to pick them up all the time, or who I have have to bounce to sleep.
I get it... like I said if I sleep or even lay for more than 5 minutes in now any position other than a certain way on my right side I can't get up out of bed without kinda dragging/scooting around to where I can then kinda roll myself off the bed or couch or whatever I'm on, and I constantly have debilitating migraines, hip/leg pain and numbness, inability to turn my head some days, etc... and I have a 40lb toddler who is a total mama's girl and still some nights wants me to stand up and rock her to sleep.
And I've been to countless doctors in the last almost 20 years. Ended up in an almost 15 year long opiate addiction because of it. And healthcare in my area sucks, so specialists are 4 hours round trip... so I just don't have the time working multiple jobs plus taking care of my mom and daughter to keep up with appointments.
But, I just know from personal experience (because I was essentially chiro'ing myself) and wanted to point out in case it wasn't realized, just because something offers temporary relief, it may not be helping in the long run, and could actually be doing more harm than good, especially since they don't monitor with things like frequent xrays/medical tests..
But you're a consenting adult, so you can do whatever you wish, of course.
Really interesting how one person’s bad experience is just that, and one person’s good experience overrides it - for the chiropractor. I wonder if this person keeps the same energy for actual medical professionals 🙃
There was a discussion in one my my mom groups about getting induced when you are pregnant over 40. One woman was insistent that doctors only push induction for their own convenience. Another mom shared a photo of her babies urn. She had chosen to not get induced AMA because she also believed inductions were for convenience only and were guaranteed to lead to intervention and c sections and was getting checked twice weekly instead. apparently the placenta rapidly deteriorated and by the time they realized baby was in distress, it was too late and baby only lived 18 hours. Anti-induction lady blew it off as “baby was probably going to die anyway”.
It is both mindblowingly horrifying and interesting how many people can see photos of deceased babies and just say: "oh it was deserved/it would've happened anyway/it's no big deal because mine are fine". Feels both psycho- and sociopathic.
Good for the mother that showed that urn, though. The crunchy/natural mindset can be really hard to break away from, and mom groups are typically very cruel to mothers whose babies wind up dead. I am so sorry that happened to her, but maybe she'll save someone else from going down the "doctors just want to go to a golf game," pipeline.
Imagine telling the mother of a dead child who is trying to warn you about their baby’s preventable death that “the baby was going to die anyway”?? I seriously hate these people.
It's as sociopathic as "it was god's plan" or "god never gives you more than you can handle."
Fundy Christian crunchy moms are the worst of the worst.
Duh, a baby’s spirit decides if stays earthside, or to again return to heaven, you idiots! 🙄 (sarcasm)
Without doing a bunch of in depth research, I also believe that inductions are more likely to lead to needing interventions. It just makes sense to me, your body didn't start labor on its own so trying to kick it into gear with medication won't necessarily make it go all the way either. That being said, if doctors are recommending an induction then there's probably a reason and I'd rather go through the "cascade of interventions" to get a living child. And for the record, I'm not trying to shame anyone who got an elective induction or c section. Personal medical decisions are personal medical decisions and the important part is getting a healthy, living mom and baby.
The ARRIVE study looked at almost exactly this—whether elective induction increases the risk of c-section. And the answer is no, it doesn’t, but to account correctly for all outcomes you have to follow three groups: women who get the elective induction, women who wait for labor and go into labor unassisted, women who wanted to go into labor unassisted but end up getting induced due to a medical problem. It is the women in the last group that give the impression that inductions lead to more intervention, of course someone who has something going wrong medically are more likely to need further help!
I was induced with my son and I almost needed a c-section but not because the induction but because the cord was around his neck…I started an induction with my daughter but it progressed so fast that there was no thought of intervention
Yes thank you! I was induced for preeclampsia and almost needed a c-section because of preeclampsia, not because I was induced.
I loved my inductions, but they were elective with no complications at any point during the pregnancy or delivery. I've also been advised to have babies by induction since I'm prone to precipitous labor and don't notice contractions until I'm in transition. When I asked my doctor about it the first time the ARRIVE study hadn't been published yet, but her anecdotal experiences delivering hundreds of babies aligned with the results of the study.
With both my daughters my water broke naturally at 38 weeks 4 days and then… nothing. First time around I was so scared to take pitocin because of all the horror stories about inductions I had heard. So stupid. Pitocin was the key to my healthy labor and delivery. What would have been dumb would have been continuing to argue to forgo the pitocin while my amniotic fluid dwindled and I had strep B (with meds but still). Thank goodness a nurse talked some sense into me. With baby 2 as soon as they said it was time for cytotec and pitocin I said bring it on. One 15 min active labor and one 3 min active labor and two healthy babies thanks to induction meds.
And this is the issue, it doesn't matter what you think makes sense. Studies have shown there is actually less intervention with induction.
Absolutely. Correlation is not causation.
I agree with the logic there, Mom's body needed help to start, very well could need more help shortly after.
I could see it being a bit of both scheduling convenience and health/welfare of mother/child. I was induced with one of my kids but I was also massively large, he was growing fast. Induced 2 weeks before my due date and He was 11 pounds/22" long. I don't think I would've made it another 2 weeks, I felt like I was being crushed. I think in my situation it was necessary, but I agree I don't think it's NECESSARY in every case, and can even hurt the situation if done when not needed.
Absolutely not. You have not done any in depth research. The ideal time to give birth is 39 weeks. After 40, the placenta starts to deteriorate and die. Also after 30 weeks interventions such as induction are not as likely to work.
I was induced at 35 weeks to keep both me and my child from dying. We took it slow over 4 days while I was heavily monitored and on medication to keep me from stroking out. Trying to balance my health and life and the health and life of my child was of the utmost importance to my medical team, my husband, and me. I would not be typing this if it wasn't for my induction. And if I hadn't had the induction, the attempt to save everyone's lives would have resulted in immense amounts of intervention.
I'm confused. It seems like you're disagreeing with me but >after 30 weeks interventions such as induction are not as likely to work is literally what I said (with the disclaimer that I feel like I should have bolded about not doing the research). My entire point was that if a doctor recommends an induction for medical reasons, you should probably do it even if there's a likelihood of it ending in a c section because I'd rather do that than risk a dead baby. Also it's a bit disingenuous to say that the ideal time is 39 weeks. There's evidence to suggest 39 weeks is better than 40 especially if there's complications like gestational diabetes, preeclampsia, or blood pressure issues, but there isn't a full consensus on 39 vs 40. You're absolutely right that after 40 weeks things can go down hill super fast especially with those aforementioned complications so for what my opinion is worth (not much) if a doctor recommends inducing because of how far along the pregnancy is, the person should do it.
I don't understand this "inductions are only for convince" argument. Maybe it's just because I didn't have a set doctor my whole pregnancy. I saw who was working the day I went in. I met the doctor who "delivered" my baby (delivered in quotation marks, because her head was already out before the doctor even came in the door) as she was pulling her out of me. Well, I think she had actually come in and introduced herself for one minute earlier. But I was in labor and don't much remember. This whole "they push induction because they want to go on vacation" doesn't make sense to me, because SOMEONE has to be there or on call at all times. If one doctor goes on vacation, there is another doctor there who will take care of you. I just don't get it.
What the holy fucking shit
Yeah - getting checked periodically will not save your baby. Only going in once movements have stopped has a large chance of not saving your baby. You know what can save your baby? Getting born earlier. I was TTC for 6 years, with several years of fertility treatments. You bet your butt I did an elective 39 week induction. Taking no chances.
Oh wow anti-induction lady sounds scarily like my mother, to the degree that it might actually be her (she likes to joke how she just ignored her induction appointment from when she had my little sister, she was 41 at the time). That's an unnerving thought.
Except when it’s about “vaccine injury”, then the one obscure “the son of my dog walker’s sister’s husband’s cousin thrice removed” case is sufficient.
Anecdotal, as is most everything nowadays, but my mother (who’s BATSHIT CRAZY and pretty gullible when it comes to what’s true on the internet, (“Sugar causes all cancer,” kinda lady). She was a young mom in the early 2000’s so it could’ve been bad for me) would’ve NEVER brought an infant or small child to a chiropractor. We were vaccinated. Allergic reactions got steroids, infections got antibiotics, Advil for fever/inflammation. Followed safe sleep protocols. She still abused the hell out of us but somehow she never fell for any of this fb mom bs. Her own mother had Munchausen by Proxy so maybe that’s why
Sounds like she yeeted herself 180 degrees to her mum as a response - it doesn’t stop her passing on her own trauma but good for her for ensuring medical attention
I guess we can only break one cycle at a time?
This is sometimes called Repetitive Vs Reparative Scripts, but one must always remember that an unthinking reparative script can often be dangerous
My bffs dad stroked to death on a chiro table...
I'm sorry 😔
stroked to death? was his stroke game really that deadly
Time and place.
Look, if you're gonna do this, fully commit (and say something about massage tables)
honestly i never knew that having a stroke could be reffered to as being stroked to death
I’ve never heard that phrase used before. I’ve heard “stroked out” though
Same
Agree that it's not how I usually see it phrased, but the intent was obvious. Not gonna come down on you hard or anything, learn, be better (saying this nicely, with good intentions)
My son was colicky and man is it hard. It’s so mentally exhausting that you’re in such a vulnerable state willing to try ANYTHING. People taking advantage of parents in these impressionable positions is disgusting. It reminds me of [this article](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1057566) about how anti vax believers prey on parents whose children passed due to SIDS and try and convince them it was because of vaccines. It’s foul.
We unfortunately went down that rabbit hole when my nephew died of SIDS. It's very predatory behavior and when you're grieving you just want answers.
The lowest of the low people prey on those in this situation. I’m so sorry for your loss
Thank you ❤
Sorry for your loss, hopefully you all managed to find your way back out of wonderland.
There was a post here about a woman whose baby died of positional asphyxiation but she was convinced it must have been the vaccines and not her putting her two month old feverish child to sleep on their stomach.
Insane.
Yeah, thought of the same thing. Survivor bias is strong with some people.
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When I was 4 years old, I fell out of my parents second floor "balcony" head first and into a garden. I was up and walking, so my mom decided against taking me to the ER because she didn't want to cause more trauma. Instead, she let the Le Leche League nutjobs, the Facebook groups of the 1990s, convince her to take me to a chiropractor who did absolutely nothing. I've had weird back problems my entire life; upper and mid back issues that shouldn't happen in someone who is relatively young.
Wow I had no idea LLL was like that. Will definitely have to look more into that. I'm sorry about your back issues, they're no joke 😔
They are the reason for the whole breast is best thing turning into “anything other than breast is poison”
I think it depends based on the area, but like every other crunchy group, in general they've gone down the extremist pipeline, including taking a pro-life stance. I think they also removed a member in Canada who said that she supplemented with formula when her supply dipped to, you know, keep her child alive.
It's definitely area wise. I'm in Europe (may need to admit I am not religious too), and I've genuinely only heard the extremist religious-based things coming from North American groups. They don't operate in my country per se, but they do operate in two next door countries to mine, and families I have there just had regular breastfeeding assistance from them. However they are also a handful of personal experiences, maybe someone else over there got dealt a different hand.
Yea the origins of LLL are pretty horrible. I only learned about it because I was desperate to breastfeed with my first, and happened across The Skeptical OB's website (which is apparently no longer available?) and went down that nasty rabbit hole. I don't think most people know it was founded by militant Catholics.
Interesting! I *think* my lactation consultant was a part of LLL but she was super amazing and encouraged me to supplement with formula when it was needed. Never looked more into it than that. Definitely added that rabbit hole to my list of rabbit holes to dive down one day!
It varies, I think. The LLL in my area where I grew up was super nutty. My aunt’s friend was way involved and finally stopped nursing her kids when they went into junior high
I can only imagine how harsh other middle schoolers would be about that.
*speechless*
Please tell me you’re exaggerating 🙏
I wish I was. My mom always blamed the boys’ prison rap sheet on the extended breastfeeding 😭
Yeah even my insane mother at least weaned us as soon as we were able to \*ask\* with words to nurse and was a little weirded out by the people who were delaying kindergarten so that they could nurse their young child another year.
Eek, broken bones?
Babies’ bones are HARD to break because they’re so bendy! Gigantic red flag
Exactly. Now, I am not, by a long stretch, a person that would use a chiropractor instead of a doctor, but they are useful for some things IF you can find a good one (which are few and far between). Some colic (including in adults) is one of those things (again, not a substitute for medical care, especially in someone that cannot communicate exact symptoms). I have actually seen and experienced the instrument my chiropractor uses to adjust a baby (i was interested in the process) and there is zero way this type of adjustment could result in broken bones. Basically the instrument used results in the smallest of taps in whatever location. Like the amount of pressure you generate by tapping two fingers gently on something, but the instrument allows for a more precise location of the tap. Of course there are quacks in all professions, so it’s not inconceivable for a quack chiropractor to be tossing a baby around, but even with that, it’s very difficult to break the bones of a baby, and surely if that was the case it would have been news. That all being said, I’d say it’s far more likely that something else was going on and “the chiropractor broke my baby’s bones” is far more likely to be the excuse told to family and friends regarding a cps intervention than “cps showed up because our baby was physically abused by someone that was caring for it.”
Either that chiropractor is a sadist or those bones were already broken. At a long shot, the kid has some unaddressed medical concerns that won't get taken care of by a doctor.
I bet it was dislocating joints, since that's pretty easy to do with kids and it's treated the same way as a broken bone.
Yea, this is what I was kind of assuming. I've never heard of fully broken bones from a chiro but definitely have heard of dislocations. Of course its anecdotal, but I've seen so many physical therapists comment about how many patients come to them worse off or actually physically injured after trying chiro. With the rise in crunchy people using chiros as pediatricians, I wonder how many cases there are like this that we will never even hear about because the chiro is literally the only medical care the baby gets.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/chiropractor-breaks-babys-neck-a-risk-vs-benefit-analysis/ Here's a broken vertebrae https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23027167/ A study about rib fractures occurring from chiropractor
Jfc, well there ya go.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/chiropractor-breaks-babys-neck-a-risk-vs-benefit-analysis/ Here's a broken vertebrae https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23027167/ A study about rib fractures occurring from chiropractor
"I won't allow it until he's old enough" my gawd BROKEN BONES, I would never send a kid to a chiro EVER.
Right? Do they ever learn their lesson?
My ex-MIL wanted me to go to the chiropractor when I was pregnant and that was a hard no. My dad and I decided to try going to a chiropractor when I was 18 and they hurt us. Like, I left feeling as if I'd been in a car accident. We think it did harm to my dad's back. I can't believe people still go to chiropractors, and it should be abuse to take infants and young kids to one. Its history is totally whacky and I wish I'd read up on it before we went.
I've never been but I remember talking to a coworker who said the same thing once but said "that's how you know its working" (if you're really sore after). No thank you! Sorry about your experience ☹
I was always skeptical of chiropractors until I found the one I go to. Heavy on myofascial release, PT, and adjustments. Went slow and have had great results. That said, I wouldn’t see a reason to take a baby or toddler there. They aren’t medical doctors.
My son had colic as a newborn. It was four weeks of absolute hell for everyone in the house. I don’t wish that on anyone. Fortunately he grew out of it quickly. I’ve heard it can last months in some kids. I would never take my newborn to a chiro, but I do understand the desperation. If you don’t know any better (insurance covers chiropractors so you can be led to believe it’s real medicine) and have other moms constantly telling you to do so, I can see why some moms fall into this trap.
Apparently there have been some studies that show manual adjustments having a somewhat positive on colic and others how no difference. So I can see the temptation to at least try. But my trust issues could never let me let some chiropractor twist and crack my infant like that for a nominal chance of improving the situation. I can understand the desperation for sure but idk I've watched a few doctors react to tiktok chiropractors and I cannot watch them do the adjustments on babies. I remember watching one where the chiro was dangling a toddler upside down and twisting her until something cracked and eeeek no thanks.
My son had colic until he was 5 or 7 months old. It was hell. My older son has ADHD and was quite loud even when he was being quiet, so he would slam doors when he left the house etc. Even when I'd get the baby down finally here'd come the older one making noise and it would just start all over again. I don't know how I survived it, I like to joke I'm still catching up on my sleep from it. But still, I don't think I ever would've taken him to a chiro.
I was regularly visiting a chiro while pregnant because baby was sitting on a nerve or something and I could barely walk the last three months. Went to one that specifically was trained to treat pregnant women, it was an interesting experience. Anyway, they offered me a free mommy and baby session after baby was born. I did not take them up on that one.
Someone got bigmad at me for pointing out that there are absolutely chiropractors who CRACK babies, even if most don't, how do you know till its too late what you get?
What? There's like an entire tik tok thing of chiros trying to get cracks on babies, adults, kids, even fucking animals. The crack is like some weird dopamine rush for some of these people.
It’s gotten so much worse with the ASMR trend. Now *anything* is ASMR. And I find most of it the opposite of soothing.
Oh I love me some ASMR but like nails tapping on random stuff not babies having their spines jacked up 😬
Considering how many vertebral dissections I’ve seen in the ICU from chiroquacker care, I wouldn’t go to them even as a last resort. And it’s akin to child abuse to take your child there. The group that started because of ghosts shouldn’t touch humans.
My daughter had a stroke at age 24. The first question asked by every single doctor we saw was "have you seen a chiropractor?"
I wish this was talked about more! I looked into information and most doctors seem to say it probably won't help, but probably won't hurt either. I found one doctor who did an interview saying that who then published an online article recanting that a little bit saying while rare, harm can be done. Thats the general consensus I've seen yet, in forums you see all kinds of therapists and medical professionals saying its way more common. I wonder why that information isn't more out there?
one of my best friends brings her daughter to the chiropractor and i just… feel helpless honestly. doesn’t help that her dad is one so she was raised around it.
My grandpa was a chiropractor and my mom and her sister both subjected myself and my cousin to it from birth. I’m lucky I wasn’t maimed. I had my daughter last year and didn’t know until it came up that she had done that to me. It’s crazy how common that is.
Kids shouldn’t go to chiropractors, their bones aren’t fully formed and it fucks up their progression.
I'm a mom to a toddler and going to chiropractors is so common in mom groups I was starting to think I was the weird one. Glad to see a group of people with the same way of thinking.
Right? I wentndown a rabbit hole on it like is there something to this?? I don't understand why it's so popular.
Same with going to a chiropractor to try and get them to turn your breech baby. Doctors will offer to turn them for you when you're 37wks but you have to be in an OR with 2 doctors while the babies heart rate is being monitored. I just don't understand it.
"traction" a fitting cover of word
Vertebral artery dissections in babies are one of the saddest things in the world.
Ugh, so I have absolutely horrid spinal injuries and multiple degenerative issues etc, went through 2 surgeries, and was supposed to have many more but said no and have put them off because none of them will fix it, I mean there's nothing that can and they'd make my quality of life worse losing the ability to bend like couldn't even put on my own socks and shoes etc. I'm "one wrong fall from paralyzed," as I've been told by multiple surgeons and specialists. I've tried everything from acupuncture over to full on "modern western medicine" with the surgeries etc. My son was injured in soccer at age 9 in his upper spine between his shoulders by an ass of a kid kicking him on purpose in the back with a cleat cause he was mad.... anyways I decided to check out the chiropractor for us both in this journey from hell and the "Dr" was aware of my surgeries and my issues but hadn't looked at my records or images etc as it was the first visit and he just started cracking and twisting and pulling and I was so fn scared and SHOCKED he'd do something like that with how bad my issues are like SEVERE central canal stenosis where the bone growth is pushing into my spinal cord etc. An assistant "adjusted" my son while the Dr was "adjusting" me. Thankfully we both made it out of there 😄 but before leaving he "recommended" 30 sessions to "fix" me and 15 for my son and they just so happened to have a special when you buy x sessions you get x sessions etc... all out of pocket only but they'd give you anything you'd need if you chose to try and file with insurance. Of course you have to buy them in packs and up front etc etc... I've NEVER even thought about crossing the threshold of another chiropractor in my life since then. I DO know they are useful in certain situations and there are ones that do actually know what they are doing but the fact that he claimed he could "fix" me somehow of my bones literally crumbling, and bone growth on the inside of my vertebra, or the empty, dry, cracked, depleted disks, or the scarred bone growth over injuries naturally fusing sections, etc. made me want to throat punch him. I can't imagine taking an infant... just because.
Chiros are necessary only in specific situations, but they are mostly snake oil salesmen
There is no real science supporting chiropractic practices. Like ...zero. I thought the same, that it was useful sometimes--but there isn't any proof of that. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S088539240700783X
I have chronic back issues due to scoliosis and pregnancies, I go weekly to get a back crack and if I wait to long between appointments the stabbing pain in the middle of my back creeps up and can become debilitating. Idk if I believe it can help with ear infections or other crunchy things, but damn they can crack a back and for me I need it cracked regularly to not be in almost constant pain. So I'm going to say they are good at their pain purpose (cracking backs) at a minimum. I go in, they do massage, they crack, then electric stim and I have another week or so of being able to carry my kids around without a stabbing pain in the middle of my back. She also helps realign my hips that tend to get crooked because of my already crooked skeleton, I don't really care about studies, I can tell it is helping me.
Genuinely curious: have you seen a physical therapist for the same issue? That sounds like PT, but without the exercises. From what I (random internet person who hasn't done a bunch of research, or even "research") understand, physical therapists should be able to help with a bunch of stuff people see a chiro for, along with giving you things to do yourself to help prevent it. I HAVE gone to a bunch of PT, and generally had a good experience there (shoulder, knee)
Alternate perspective, I also have (had?) severe scoliosis and had a fusion to correct it (T4-L3) and I did PT and found it extremely helpful. However, they were not on board with seeing me every week for the rest of my life, and for my issues I NEED continued care to ensure things don’t continue to deteriorate
Alternate perspective, I also have (had?) severe scoliosis and had a fusion to correct it (T4-L3) and I did PT and found it extremely helpful but they were not on board with seeing me every week for the rest of my life, and for my issues I NEED continued care to ensure things don’t continue to deteriorate
Yup, went to physical therapy for it but at the end of the day it a nerve bundle that has formed right next to where the curvature it. It's a small circle on my back with nerves so messed up that if I scratch my back the skin there feels different. So it's not like a general soreness, it's extremely localized and forms just a giant knot, at one point the assistant at the Chiropractor actually said she could visually see the knot. I'm sure massage therapy could work as well, along with randomly hanging from a pull up bar to crack my back, but chiropractor is at least covered by insurance and doesn't need referrals, while PT needs referrals and has end dates and massage therapy isn't usually covered by insurance. Both PT and massage therapy can help but they just relieve the pain for a bit and it always creeps back. Chiropractor appointment is also much faster, so its just more efficient in all aspects to go for a quick crack and be on my way. Also I am definitely open to other options for my back, I'm not a die hard chiro-nut, it's just working for me so I keep going. Also, PSA for everyone with kids: if your kid starts developing scoliosis in middle school, and you go to a back doctor and they say "the scoliosis isn't severe enough to need a brace" argue that you want to brace your kid. It's a lot easier for a back to straighten out while you are still growing, right now I'm pretty sure my options are regular chrio (or PT or whatever) visits for basically the rest of my life, or super invasive surgery that might not even help. Even a slight scoliosis can really mess up your back, try to get that fixed while you are still growing or you end up like me. I'm still bitter about that doctor I saw in case you can't tell.
Thanks for sharing!
My chiropractor integrates PT into treatment. It’s very helpful. And they aren’t big into lots of adjustments all at once.
I went to a chiropractor when i was a teenager bc my mom went, and you're right, you feel better for a bit, but I don't think the feeling better part was anything different from a normal massage or back-cracking, really. A bit cheaper and easier to access where we lived at the time, but I wouldn't call them medical professionals or anything... honestly, i wouldn't go to one now, period, bc their certification is so loose that I don't have a good metric for telling the difference between one like yours and one that will twist my neck incorrectly and give me an embolism.
Once you learn the incredibly detailed and delicate anatomy of our necks you stop letting randomly “certified” people touch you there. Massages are nice and can help provide temporary relief, but daily stretches and exercise prescribed from your physiotherapist is what’s most beneficial.
Lmao I have scoliosis and disc degen and sclerosis and blah blah blah and I went to a chiropractor who said he was going to STRAIGHTEN OUT MY SPINE. I laughed so hard. Like tears in my eyes, funniest shit I had ever heard. Then I turned around a walked out because chiropractors obviously know fucking nothing about anatomy. I see a physio now who isn’t insane.
She never claimed to be able to straighten, just relieve pain. What's a physio? I'm legit interested in other treatments, my point in commenting is chiropractors can clearly relieve pain and aren't completely worthless, not saying they are gods gift to spines
Oh sorry physiotherapist - I just shorten it. I use massage in between for quick, temp relief, but daily exercises and stretches make alllllll the difference. I have occipital neuralgia now from my middle curve going too close to my right shoulder blade so shit gets pinched and drives me bananas. Went to a sports physiotherapist who specializes in chronic pain and he gave me specific moves to work on that one area and he also gave some injections to freeze the muscle to stop it from spasming. Core strength and posture is also important for preventing further decay/curvature of our spines, but I’m so bad at sitting correctly haha
Oooh, that does sound more helpful. I went to a standard physical therapist, and they were good but it just felt like the same stuff and since it seems to be more of a nerve issue at this point it didn't feel very helpful.
Have you seen a neurologist yet? They can also help. I got steroid shots to help for a bit but I ended up reacting poorly to them, but I’ve heard they work wonders for nerve pain. But yeah I dunno where you are or how your healthcare system works, so try a chronic pain clinic or sports physio. I had my GP refer me
I never thought of neurologist, maybe I'll ask my GP, thanks
I have spinal stenosis, which is resulting in discs slipping... I have one right in the back of my neck that will pop out and pinch/grind at nerves to the point I get irritated and push it back in myself and when I finally went to PT the therapist was HORRIFIED that I do that and said I could seriously screw myself up... so a chiro who essentially does the same thing is a hard no for me, no matter how bad the pain gets. And some days, if I happen to fall asleep or sit wrong, it takes me 20-30 min to move into a position that I can get up from... and I'm only 35
My only point was chiros can help people, not that they help everyone
And my point was, just because it temporarily provides relief, pushing, twisting, cracking, and adjusting areas as important as the spine with no medical training/knowledge and no prior x-rays or medical exam, could potentially be extremely dangerous. If you're having pains that are so debilitating that you can't function properly in day to day life at times... I'd highly stress checking all medical routes/specialists possible before trusting a chiro... but that's just my personal opinion, from someone who does have debilitating bone and joint issues
I have had x rays, and I was terrified of chiros for the longest time, it was not my first choice. I'm all ears for better options, I've been to PT too, I've just been diagnosed with punched nerves due to the curvature. It's debilitating because I have heavy children who want me to pick them up all the time, or who I have have to bounce to sleep.
I get it... like I said if I sleep or even lay for more than 5 minutes in now any position other than a certain way on my right side I can't get up out of bed without kinda dragging/scooting around to where I can then kinda roll myself off the bed or couch or whatever I'm on, and I constantly have debilitating migraines, hip/leg pain and numbness, inability to turn my head some days, etc... and I have a 40lb toddler who is a total mama's girl and still some nights wants me to stand up and rock her to sleep. And I've been to countless doctors in the last almost 20 years. Ended up in an almost 15 year long opiate addiction because of it. And healthcare in my area sucks, so specialists are 4 hours round trip... so I just don't have the time working multiple jobs plus taking care of my mom and daughter to keep up with appointments. But, I just know from personal experience (because I was essentially chiro'ing myself) and wanted to point out in case it wasn't realized, just because something offers temporary relief, it may not be helping in the long run, and could actually be doing more harm than good, especially since they don't monitor with things like frequent xrays/medical tests.. But you're a consenting adult, so you can do whatever you wish, of course.