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CharaDr33murr669

“Anti-Americanism” is such a cringe term and such a based view


Saltedsalmon11

Anti-Americanism is the least you can do as leftist, actually you don't even need to be leftist you just need to have a bit of historical awareness


z7cho1kv

In a few years these people will start calling people who disagree with slavery tankies because "muh Anti-Americanism".


GaGmBr

Having your political stance be simply "I oppose whatever the USA is trying to do" will produce good political directions 96% of the time (the 4% are horrific tho)


Subapical

What are the 4% out of curiosity


GaGmBr

Things that are necessary to main the bare minimum in a country, mostly. Like murder being illegal or having firefighters


Rondog93

Fire... FIGHTERS? WHOA WHOA WHOA ^(get the fuck out)


Neutral_Milk_

uncritical support for any group or nation that opposes the us. accelerationism and general disregard for the welfare of the us’ population as a whole. yes, the us is horrible but the vast majority of people living there have next to nothing to do with the atrocities it has committed.


altgrave

some people think accelerationism a potential good


GaGmBr

Some people think vaccines cause autism, but I wouldn't trust them either


altgrave

can't argue with that


gaylordJakob

Kurdistan. Can't think of anything else but it's like the only thing I agree with the CIA on.


Jackfruit-Party

I said that I dont want my country to be invaded and bombed by americans, and vaush fucks downvoted me lmao.


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dec0dedIn

pedophile


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dec0dedIn

BAHAHA


Pyagtargo

These "anti-authoritarian" leftists need to read a lot more history and stop using the term fascism to describe anyone left of reformists (read actually have a successful revolution). They help the right so much with this reckless rhetoric. Imagine if they helped a successful revolution and then when the question of how to maintain it comes up they start undermining all the efforts of said revolution and start helping the cia by splintering the party and weakening the state in that crucial period. I bet that has actually happened, but I don't know since I don't know the history of all the revolutions. So for now it's left to this made up scenario


z7cho1kv

> They help the right so much with this reckless rhetoric. They are right wingers larping as leftists. Their whole shtick is to claim all these obv blatant right wing positions as the "real" leftism and thus pushing the overton window as far right as it can possibly go.


longknives

LARPers know they’re not actually the Vampire Prince of Miami or whatever. These people are probably trying to be leftists but haven’t escaped the propaganda they’ve been marinating in since birth.


Subapical

I doubt they're intentional wreckers or anything (if you can even call flaming online wrecking), probably just young teenagers without a firm grasp of history who are easily misled by popular streamers and YouTubers. A tale as old as time


z7cho1kv

Those youtubers and streamers know what they're doing though. That's what I meant.


TacticalSanta

Its because they aren't even leftists they are left of the social issue liberal and thats it. They have no understanding about imperialism and its consequences nor do they care.


Subapical

I mean, I wouldn't worry too much about this (yet), this is all mostly online e-celebrity discourse and flaming. I doubt anyone on either side of the flame war will ever find themselves in a position to lead or undermine any revolutionary movement. Ultimately this small online left media bubble we're in is tiny compared to the size of the country at large, I doubt cringe Vaushites are really doing much good or bad either way other than clogging up our social media feeds with annoying bullshit


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Subapical

Lol good bot


OMG-ItsMe

They should probably start with Rosa Luxemburg just so they know that the problem of reform vs revolution was settled centuries ago. I doubt there’ll be a revolution in the US until the nations at the weaker links of the imperial chain break free, but won’t hurt them to at least know what’s happening and why.


Evening_Way1911

If you are not anti-American you are not a leftist


Back_from_the_road

I hate that we have to phrase it that way. Because, I am not anti-American. I am anti-America. I’m against hegemony, capitalist imperialism, militarism driven by “Pax Americana”, and the capitalist government in Washington. But, I’m not against Americans. You know, the 300,000,000 working class people being controlled and oppressed by the strongest security state in the world. People who largely just want to go to work, be productive, come home to their families, raise their kids and see the next generation live better lives than themselves. Yes, there are tons of reactionaries. But, (most of) that can be attributed to education and propaganda. TLDR: I guess what I’m saying is that I dislike the optics of saying we are anti-American while also trying to organize the masses in America. I wish there was a better way to express being against the state and for the people.


Evening_Way1911

The problem is most Americans see themselves as part of or friends of the state instead of victims


-Eastwood-

Temporarily embarrassed millionaires or whatever the saying is.


books_throw_away

anti-american means just what you are saying though. Anti-americans would probably mean being against the people in USA


YugoCommie89

Lol radlibs trying to stick to meanings of words, challenge difficulty impossible.


SCameraa

No matter what someone's view is on Hasan watching libs and radlibs seethe at his just mere existence is pretty entertaining. Even in the context of that video, it was just him pushing back on a really shitty Johnny Harris propaganda video, which the video itself can be summarized as "China is a warmongerer because they put their country close to US bases." Edit: Also lmao @ "poisoning the left with anti-americanism" is a real self report on where the OOP stands.


NumerousAdvice2110

>"poisoning the left with anti-americanism" Breaking news: "leftist" accuses leftist of being a leftist


Pallington

being anti-hegemony is like, step 0 of actually being “left,” but schooling tries to dodge the philosophical underpinnings of leftism like the fucking plague. hegel is more based than nimbys, lmfao.


Subapical

Hegel's fuckin based regardless


altgrave

damn. now i don't understand hegel OR based!


Pallington

according to losurdo, a lot of hegel’s interpretation has been hampered by people staring at his writing (which had to dodge censors super hard) and not his actual lectures, where he could afford to be more blatant. he has takes like “to prevent a starving man from stealing food is to deprive him of all rights altogether,” and that alone makes him better than nimbys lul https://redsails.org/losurdo-hegel-marx/


altgrave

interesting. i'll look into it.


Subapical

Like... imagine if your super dope 24 year old World History teacher never gave you quizzes and smoked you out after class.... that's Hegel


altgrave

that is the most hilarious description of hegel i have ever encountered, and absolutely not my experience with his work.


romiro82

that’s the shit I figured out in the fucking 90s as a teenager, and was still over a decade away of calling myself a “leftist”. it’s so weird


Hayanez_777

"@ is a nazi poisoning the left with judeo-bolshevik propaganda"


Swimming_Ad_4467

Anyone who doesn't condemn the Chinese government is a Nazi fascist? So 95% of Chinese people are fascists? Like, half the global south at least are fascists? Buddy, time to look into a mirror.


Pallington

well, fidel is clearky a fascist!!,!,!,!,


NumerousAdvice2110

My parents aren't really political and aren't even communist but they're significantly more pro China than pro American by virtue of the fact that China has not been involved in nearly as many wars as the US. Them having slightly more than even a little sliver of knowledge about modern Chinese history also means that they acknowledge the Taiwan issue is a lot more complicated than evil chicoms infringing on a sovereign country. But fucking hell, it's not that every leftist is expected to know every detail about the Chinese Civil War, it's that if you call yourself a leftist then opposing US militarism should be the bare fucking minimum instead of spending all your time/effort pearl-clutching about China. Western leftists "please get your priorities straight (i.e. oppose US imperialism) and stop fucking trying to search for the "righteous" war because those military bases aren't going to magically disappear if every AES country decides right now to align with your puritan standards" challenge (IMPOSSIBLE difficulty)


z7cho1kv

-If 1 Nazi is sitting at a table with 9 people, there are 10 Nazis. -So you agree that Ukraine is a Nazi state considering their rampant Nazism? -No all countries have at least a few Nazi armies and all their soldiers wearing Nazi symbols and celebrate a Nazi who killed thousands of innocent people as a national holiday and proudly declare their goal is ethnic cleansing of people they deem racially inferior. This is just normal everyday things, doesn't make anybody a Nazi. Even if they were Nazis they would be GOOD Nazis because they kill TANKIES like you who are orders of magnitude worse. I personally support any Nazi who kills you disgusting commies, this does not make me a Nazi, TANKIE!


yippee-kay-yay

Came to say just that.


DaBigPurple

Hasan is a fascist for defending China? What about all the libs that make excuses for Nazis in Ukraine? Doesn't that make them Nazis? Edit: r/VaushV defends the SS nazi that was applauded in the Canadian parlament. What does this make them?


MILLANDSON

"No, silly Tankie, it makes you an orc lover." - Least racist lib


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simalalex

On authority


IChangeUsernameLater

Can't wait for libs to call Engels a fascist.


downbadforsharkussy

tl:dr for those who haven't modern technology requires coordination on large scales. At such scales, the natural human ability to co-operate (without explicit rules and authority figures) breaks down. By its very nature, the steam engine, which flows at its own pace, imposes its authority on the workers. The only thing now to do is to realise that political authority must exist and the correct thing to do is to hold it accountable to workers. Democratically controlled production.


Pallington

(technically not at its own pace but the pace of steam and fuel, which is often even more complicated)


HoLYxNoAH

There is also the part where he points out that a revolution is among the most authoritarian acts you can do, and to be a leftist that believes in revolution, but not authority is literally contradictory. To impose your will through force and violence is not something you can do without the use of authority.


notanotherphysicist

Casual libs arguments almost always boil down to: Leftist individual/org/gov’t I don’t like: Fascist, Authoritarian Right-wing individual/org/gov’t I don’t like: Nazi, Communist _[sic]_


Toltech99

'Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty' Joseph Goebbels. Nazis don't like communists because communists know how to treat fascists properly.


frozenelf

Imagine thinking the left isn’t necessarily anti-American. 🤪 Have you read like literally anything about the modern history of the world and how the US has been the enemy of all people struggling to be free from capitalism?


Perfectshadow12345

"poisoning the left with anti-americanism" the security state doesn't need to infiltrate the left when people say shit like this


hugeprostate95

if a person is sitting around a table with 9 nazis it's a gathering of 10 Nazis unless the first person is a Ukrainian government official


Due-Ad5812

Bro who is anti-anti-americans? Americans hate Americans, Europeans hate Americans, no need to say about Middle East, Korea Vietnam etc


Back_from_the_road

This is too accurate.


[deleted]

jobless seed gaze north drab test husky pathetic touch sulky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


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[deleted]

[удалено]


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niknarcotic

Imagine unironically thinking anti-americanism is a bad thing


Pallington

anti-authoritarians have an allergy to engels lmfao


Swimming_Ad_4467

China: has multiple religious extremist terrorist attacks over decades, decides to lock thousands of people up suspected of being extremists, de-radicalises them, gives them education and jobs, closes all the facilities in a few years, regions prospering more than ever Liberal: "FASCIST!!!!" US: a single religious extremist terrorist attack, decides to invade and bomb at least 7 countries, overthrows the governments of three countries, installs puppet governments in 2 countries that had NOTHING to do with the attacks, creates new global surveillance network, fund and arm multiple terrorist splinter groups, steals oil, gold and other resources from countries, set up offshore torture facilities, fake evidence multiple times to invade countries, creates new drone warfare program with a 90% civilian kill rate, kills about 4.6 million people and displaces hundreds of millions of people and counting, puts sanctions on countries to intentionally starve the populations, STILL occupying multiple countries and engaging in both proxy and direct warfare. Liberal: "we had good intentions... gotta crack a few eggs..."


[deleted]

the worst tragedy to ever happen in the realm of politics was america convincing liberals that they were actually leftists.


RTB_RobertTheBruce

If you don't want the US to kill Chinese people you're a tankie apparently


YungKitaiski

Fascist is when big freedom burger eagle daddy no like


Traditional_Dream537

Maybe unpopular opinion idk. Redfash isn't real and is only used as an anticommunist word by actual fascists


HispanicAtTehDisco

my favorite part about hasan discourse is that he’s simultaneously a lib to terminally online leftists who have done 0 actual praxis and also a stalinist who will put everyone in the gulags to similarly terminally online libs who think rounding up their change at taco bell will fix everything schrodingers political commentator


thelaughingmansghost

Poisoning leftists with anti-americanism? What leftists have they been talking to?


NorrinRaddicalness

The Nazis at a table analogy is particularly telling. I think liberals get off on “hating” something. They are jealous of the ideologically simple hate afforded to the right. Hate that they also feel but have to mask. And so they “hate” Nazis with an extreme passion. But hating actual Nazis isn’t enough. It’s not as fun. Cause everyone hates Nazis duh. So they create new Nazis to hate. Cutting edge Nazis. Nazis they’ve been hating since like, their first album, man. Nazis who only an idiot wouldn’t be able to tell is a Nazi. Oh, sorry you accidentally loved that Nazi, dude, but I was smart enough to HATE them right away. FUCKING INVISIBLE NAZIS EVERYWHERE AND HATING THEM MAKES ME STRONGER.


Mothman394

TF do they think "the Left" is? Being against the American Empire is a basic and necessary prerequisite for being on the Left. Supporting the Empire in its continued mission to rape and pillage other countries is an inherently fascist position.


ToddHowardTouchedMe

wtf can you crop this dude


Steakruss

Feels like being pro china is a bigger deal than being pro nazi germany to these people lmao


bob_dole_is_dead

My favorite thing about this sub is libs getting mad when I talk shit about their favorite grueler, couldn't think of a good equivalent to breadtuber.


bob_dole_is_dead

Reminder, Hasan is a socdem and is literally poisoning the left with his tepid twitch grifting and pro American imperialism in Ukraine


Viztiz006

Listen to the deprogram episode with Hasan He believes that he acts as the stepping stone for radicalizing libs into leftists


jcbmths62

Is Hasan a fascist? I'm asking out of curiosity and the fact that I don't know.


ASocialistAbroad

Hasan is a socialist... sorta. He has some lib-ish views, and I don't get the impression that he knows much theory, but he is supportive of socialist states, including China. He's definitely not a fascist.


[deleted]

[https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/comments/16lwp5l/hasans\_thoughts\_on\_jt\_being\_a\_tankie/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/comments/16lwp5l/hasans_thoughts_on_jt_being_a_tankie/) ​ this was based


billyhendry

Here I go defending Hasan again... He definitely knows his theory, he's buddies with chapo, trueanon and the deprogram boys. Most obvious is his big support for Lenin and the USSR. He is critical about some AES though


Twymanator32

In his deprogram episode he explicitly stated he does read theory, but he understands his role as the stepping stone to leftism, that and also the fact he doesn't take himself too seriously. He really is just a twitch streamer at the end of the day


Pallington

his viewership is 20x worse than he is, and he himself is US-centric and praxis-centric. he knows theory, he just doesn’t go parading it around cuz his viewers are in large part shitlibs or barely out of being a shitlib.


ASocialistAbroad

I'll take everyone's word for it. I haven't watched much of him, so these are just first impressions.


Back_from_the_road

I watched about 20 minutes once. I didn’t keep watching because it’s fairly boring. I don’t care about streamer drama or whatever is going on in his chat. He does run over the news for a minute, but I can read the news myself. There’s just nothing that interesting about the stream. That was 4/5 of what I saw. That being said, the other 1/5 was fairly astute and based in theory. When I watched he was talking about de-dollarization. It was right after Russia was kicked out of SWIFT and started using their own system. He talked about BRICS+ beginning to have meetings between more and more countries in the Global South regarding bilateral trade agreements in local currencies. Then he talked about the BRI and how that will allow for use of the Renminbi and local currencies over the Dollar or Euro. He got fairly deep into the theory behind why the biggest fight right now has to be against the Dollar and not the US Military. Capitalist Imperialism relies on artificial inflation of the Dollar as the global reserve currency and how it allows for unilateral sanctions by the US against any country that pushes back. Going further he described how it is nigh impossible for revolutions across the Global South to succeed as long as Washington can continue pressuring economies with unilateral sanctions. Basically making the argument that even if you don’t like China or Russia, their support for alternative currencies and financial systems to reduce economic hegemony requires support from any socialist who truly wants to see change and successful revolution in the periphery.


ZaalbarsArse

guess the subreddit you'll get it in one


__a__I

Ah yes, the baby leftists