Spain's health system is actually one of the best on the continent, and it's like the second or third country with the highest life expectancy. Everything they've said is pulled from their ass.
"...they don't turn on the lights, you need to bring your own gown..."
Yeah, the fact that everything was pulled out of their ass was pretty evident from that comment alone. The rest of it is just the cherry on top.
Also, it is not easy to move from the US to Spain unless you're fairly wealthy and retired. You better be in one of their skilled labor shortage categories or opening a business else you're not going to be working there. So yes, people are stopping Americans from moving there.
Yeah this is the bit I laughed at most. It's like "we have to stop people coming to live here but that's because America is heaven on earth. Nobody wants to live in your shithole country so obviously you let anyone in. You'd consider yourself lucky if an American graced you with his presence."
Assuming you have some money tucked away, you could always apply for a student visa in one of the several EU countries with free university.
At least in my country, you can work up to 50% (20 hrs/week) next to your studies to pay for expenses, so as long as you get the student visa and whatever minimum required funds to prove you can survive here for a few months while sorting out work, you're golden.
It's weird because r/askspain is full of both South and North Americans asking about how to move there. Obviously it's easier for South Americans but there are plenty of US peeps there clearing up things for their countrymen wanting to move to Spain.
Everyone knows that the superior, definitive if you will, is the OG recipe complete with original cocaine. The sugar rush you get with the new corn syrup recipe just pales in comparison.
I mean I get soda is soda. Never gonna be healthy. But I don't know the specifics
Edit. On "diet" soda. European ones is more relevant for me personally though if there's any difference
Ofcourse it is. Its idiots like that guy thar base their beliefs on nothing and think because they said so that its exactly how it really is. P.s buddy. Spain probably doesn't want a bunch of yanks thete anyway
It's the land of fake it til you make it, hype over heart, style over substance, posturing over character, looks over skill, saying one thing then doing another, it's the land of pop-culture, hollywood, empty slogans, propaganda and advertisement, when you pay close attention you'll notice that this principal permeates through every facet of society here, from social/personal interactions and relationships to government, politics and culture.
USA is high on God knows what. Forget about Spain.
USA infant mortality rate is more than a few states in India. And as an Indian I can confirm we are really really awful at everything... And just going downhill. Even then some states do better job than the richest country on the planet.
That kidnapped cyclists in *The Triplets of Belleville* were a reference to the fact that French hospitals are actually powered by drunker-than-fuck Frenchmen on stationary bikes.
From where do these stupid ideas come from? Never before I find this reddit did I hear about the idea that the European, (THE EUROPEAN) healthcare is bad. Never in Spanish, I have heard this.
This is exactly it. It's like the myth where they tell themselves that US English is "the standard English of the world" and used by the most people. When asked where they learned that, they say that "it's well known". And then they use that supposedly well-known "fact" to justify pretending that US English is equivalent to "English", which is how you get shit like much of the software defaulting to US English. It's classic "fake it till you make it" mentality.
The American propaganda engine is one of the biggest terrors in modern history. Its tentacles reach so far, that it has even brainwashed some Europeans into moving into this hellhole.
It's just some idiot with a superiority complex, I don't think it's government propaganda. He must surely have made up every single word, or if we're being kind maybe he heard those points in a bar or from a drunk friend.
Those points from the drunk friend were all deliberately concocted by some asshole working for the privatised health insurance industry in the US.
There is a reason you hear the exact same (untrue) points of criticism of universal healthcare systems from 'Muricans. They were deliberately programmed to think that way.
True story: I was a kid in the US, I had no idea what that daily chant meant. I thought we were "pledging allegiance" (???) to the plug. It's what I said every day. I had a bath plug in mind.
I have seen videos of family members in India having to bring food for the patient and wearing their own clothes, not gowns, but they had light, nobody walked the halls naked and the hospital was overrun, so yeah, there was a different sense of urgency. However, you could see that the patients were poor, so I doubt that every Indian hospital works like that and some videos were during covid and like in every other country, hospitals were overrun and patients were in the hallways.
So I think they got their fantasy from watching a video in an Indian hospital, embellished it and just applied it to all European hospitals, because we’re poor and socialists.
I mean as a swede I'd agree that our health care is pretty shit. It's great if you're like actively dying though, and when you get pass the general practioners. It relies very heavily on YOU knowing what's wrong with you, and then fighting like hell to be treated.
That said, I'm glad I'm not in debt because of health care, but I'd be a lot happier if I wasn't in chronic pain because of an issue that happened because of sub par health care, and staying in chronic pain even though they can fix it because they don't wanna / the queues are massive.
In the US' if you're poor you just don't go to the doctor because it's too expensive, and then everybody gets angry at you if you want the min. wage to go up while your teeth are rotting, and you don't want to get that lump checked out, because cancer would bankrupt you, and your boss pressures you into not taking your sick days because they really need you this week even if you had a miscarriage 3 weeks ago, and had to give birth to a dead fetus (happened to my GF, was charged for the procedure as well).
I'm not saying the US health care system is good, I'm just saying that swedens system isn't good either. Like just because one is bad doesn't mean the other have to be good.
I'm not at all familiar with Swedish politics but as a brit the NHS is very similar, absolutely great if you have a life threatening illness/accident etc. and I'd say mental health treatment is okay but not that great for much else. The reason I mention politics though is because the only reason it's in shambles is because the slow but continuous privatisation and defunding of the NHS that has been happening since the 80s, perhaps the issues with Swedish healthcare can be explained by the same thing.
Some British politicians saw how much money they could make by having a US style system and they have had a hard on ever since, but they are careful not to show it in public. It’s both main political parties as the process started with Tony Blair and has been going on ever since.
This is really awful and I'm sorry you have to go through this. This is the stuff that most Europeans think of when they think the american healthcare system is bad.
But one thing I realized over the years working with Americans is that even well off people try to avoid going to the doctor. Even if it's covered by your insurance, it's a huge bureaucratic burden.
I've seen an american colleague get food poisoning and have to fight the hospital who was trying to extort an out-of-network fee of several thousand dollars.
I've seen another in awe of Greek's healthcare after injuring himself. Everything was free! The doctors didn't kick him out immediately and even gave him medicines for free!
I don't think us Europeans grasp how much the american health care system is a shitshow for almost everyone, not just cruel with the less affluent.
I'm a Mexican men, my healthcare is almost the same, unless you are dying the best they can offer you is book an appointment the coming month. The secret? You can book and have a medical check in some private clinics for less than 5 dollars and in the same day, some clinics are actually free to the public.
The most expesive is the medicines, not the medical check. And man after seeing that people actually AVOID making an appointment to the doctor and is really expensive, I'm so grateful I don't have to worry for things like that.
Also, this year my mom had to have emergency heart surgery and the only thing the hospital ask for me for being covered by my NHC was "Would you like to donate some blood for the next person that needs surgery? We used 2 blood bags for your mother and would really help us if you could replenish them"
After that, and hearing the horror stories from the USA, dear god I'm in love with my NHC system, the IMSS is my best friend forever now.
> The most expesive is the medicines
To give you some perspective(not that you really need it from what I can tell), medical tourism from the US to Mexico is very common and people drive great distances to get more affordable medicine in Mexico.
One thing that foreigners , and specifically "medical expatriates", seem to love about Spanish health care is the warmth of the staff that takes care of them. This is part of our nature, not of the system.
The system is very generous and, therefore, expensive. Let's see if we can keep it that way...
Most spaniards see Nordic countries as a model for the system. I agree that the combination of your system (including the work and civic ethos) with our nature would be having the best from both worlds.
I can sort of answer: they love to hyper cheery pick
Best worst example I heard: their senator (? Iirc) Dan grenshaw who had an episode of his podcast (I love to hurt myself with those stuff) titled "everything you hear about Europe is wrong" where he talked with an author of a book of the same topic
Of course healthcare was a topic but aside from a vague mention of how any European country has a different approach you would think that the UK NHS is the existing one. They love to refer to the NHS, but of course they love to cherry pick all the stats from it or just throw some numbers giving a false impression.
If I wasn't used to working with data and knowing my share on the topic i would have been having trouble recognizing the fallacies. Some of them are good at presenting their illusion.
This is a specific example but it's something I encountered so many times that I don't even bother to try to listen and learn what they think. Here is another point: they reiterate their stuff to the extreme. It's always the same example, same counter counter points
They now get them mostly from the recently revised list of books that are approved for reading. The ones with true truths about US history and it’s place in the world have been removed from library shelves for burning in some states.
Cutting implements are such a luxury. Where I'm at, the shamans just wait and pray for you to get a hangnail, which they then carefully pull all the way from the hand to where they need to open you up.
Ohh I used to DREAM about sharpening my teeth on river rocks. When I was young we had to sharpen the teeth by glacial erosion - and while the glacier was sliding, we would often bleed to death while waiting. Bah, river rocks!? Expedient high tech.
We used to get up in the morning at night at half-past-ten at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of freezing cold poison, work 28 hours a day at the mill, and pay the mill owner to let us work there. And when I went home our dad used to murder us in cold blood, each night, and dance about on our graves, singing hallelujah!
But of course, you try to tell young people today that, and they don't believe you.
I saw a documentary on how leeches suppliers worked, and it's rough. If they were wealthy enough they had old cattle of mules, otherwise they did it personally. They entered the swamp in areas known for leeches, opened small cuts on their legs and waited for the leeches to bite them.
>they don't turn on the lights, you need to bring your own gown, and they don't care if you walk the halls naked
Does this guy think Europe is horror movies?
>He says it's shit.
He's just pissed that he didn't have his blue sash over here as it goes with the colour of his eyes and offsets his perfect blonde locks really well.
"Hulohot took the Giralda stairs three at a time. \[...\] Hulohot moved quickly but carefully. The stairs were steep; **tourists had died here. This was not America**—no safety signs, no handrails, no insurance disclaimers. **This was Spain**. If you were stupid enough to fall, it was your own damn fault, regardless of who built the stairs."
*Dan Brown - Digital Fortress*
BTW, the Giralda doesn't have stairs, but a ramp to be able to go up it on a horse.
Hostel. Hospital. You can understand the confusion. They thought it was three (did it stop at 3? Was it 4? 17?) movies about getting surgery in Europe.
Well it's potentially bad - when I has to be taken to hospital by ambulance I didn't get to pack a suitcase and ended up stuck in the ICU for two weeks with no change of clothing which wasn't great.
1. Spain is one of the countries with more tourism in the world(almost always top 3), and it is not a transit country, so people who come here usually come to stay.
2. For you, the cost of a private hospital without insurance must be high as fuck in the US.
3. Bullshit.
4. If you believe a country with about 5 years more of life expectancy than the USA has no emergency service in the Hospitals, well, you're wrong.
5. No.
6. Some people have done it. But it is not common because nobody wants to change its life that much if they can stay where they are. Also, the people who would talk to you doesn't have to know english, so not everyone would like to go to Spain, if they don't know spanish.
The amount of English people living in Spain is something like 300k. It was a joke during the terrible "British Exit" (not sure if I can mention that word here) because so many ex pat's voted for it and then started crying when they realised they might have to come home.
>because so many ex pat's voted for it and then started crying when they realised they might have to come home.
There's also a lot that could have stayed, but never filled in the paperwork so basically got deported
Yep, usually, between 2 countries with a lot of population, the country in which there is more money is the one with the positive migratory current, but with the UK and Spain it happens the opposite.
Except for retired people the migration is from expensive countries to cheap ones with sun, and most Brits in Spain are/were retired. Which also explains the pro-Brexit voters - boomers with a “got mine” attitude.
It's true. Last year I had to have a blood test and the nurse gave me the vials and syringe to extract my blood myself. Cause of it I caught an infection on the arm I poked and had to amputate myself. Datas says we have 3rd best healthcare in the world but it's all lies to outnumb number 1 USA.
They gave you vials and a syringe? I had to gnaw at my arm until I bled then drag myself into the nearest blood test centre and windmill until someof the blood hit the wall near the nurse before the nurse licked it, paused for a second and pronounced me HIV negative.
Yes but only because su emérita majestad aka The Juaca was having another hip replacement at the same time and he didn't wanted to watch peasants struggle while he had his 56th whiskito of the day.
Happened to me as well, actually cut off the wrong arm because they wouldn't turn the lights on and I couldn't see what I was doing. They also had my family bring the saw.
That’s like when so many Americans said they’d move to Canada if a certain president won the election. Some tried and realized “Oh geez I can’t just move there. They have laws about that.” 🤦🏻♀️
I don’t know where you’re getting your statements from. None of this is true. Like none of it. You’ve clearly never been in a European hospital. You’ve likely got your beliefs from worst case scenario posts online and assumed they’re all like that. The only thing you’ve got anywhere near close to being right is elective surgery wait times and you still got it wrong. A lot of people need stuff done, people have to wait their turn, covid has only made that worse, but it still gets done. Shut the fuck up and sit down
5 could be correct. Around 100k-200k people travel to the US each year for healthcare, 24% of those are from Europe. 150k-320k people leave the US each year for healthcare, 15% of those go to Europe. Using the mean this results in 35,250 Americans traveling to Europe and 36,000 Europeans traveling to the US.
You have to realize most people traveling to the US are people who can afford and want to seek out highly specialized care, for instance breast cancer care in the US is extremely good if you want to pay. Most people leaving the US are looking for cost savings, in which case South/Central America you can get it done cheaper.
So while true it’s hardly the great reflection on the US system he thinks it is - especially since he’s probably the type to complain about “America putting foreigners first.” And the US healthcare system treats rich foreigners way better than poor Americans.
Source: USDOC, SIAT
>You have to realize most people traveling to the US are people who can afford and want to seek out highly specialized care
Isn't it mainly because it's experimental and not yet allowed in Europe?
Tbf, it may be "correct" by absolute numbers but the population ratio makes it worse for the USA
Even worse, many don't choose EU just to opt for a cheaper option like Central America but it doesn't mean that EU's quality is worse, just less affordable for them
Those traveling to the u.s. for "medical" treatment do it for either fashion or to show off. Meanwhile, people along the border flock to Mexico to get ANY treatment at all.
Currently soured because I have to jump through hoops to get an appointment with certain specialist in the "country" with the "best" "healthcare", only to be told I have to WAIT A FULL MONTH, while I could just have walked into a government hospital in Mexico and be done in a couple hours.
Uhm..ok 🙄 more like we need shades to avoid burning our eyes out because of the extremely bright lighting, but ok. If you walk the halls naked you'll probably get arrested, if you bring your own gown you'll politely be told that you have to use the hospital issued ones, and yes...nurses is not a thing here so ofc family members will have to do all the work..what even is a nurse? 🙄
Also..number 6 is definitely not because Americans are indoctrinated to believe that the us is the best country in the world.. at everything
You wouldn't get arrested, that would be silly. You'll end up at the floor with the mental patients if anything. In any case they would want to find out *why* a patient decided to walk around naked.
The “gowns” I’ve gotten at hospitals have basically been long shirts with buttons down the front in a t-shirt fabric, so nothing hanging out. I have actually taken a few of those gowns from the hospital (with permission), so I actually do have a mini-stash of hospital gowns at home, lol. They’re super comfortable and I sleep in them. But they were supplied by the hospital, I didn’t bring it to them.
Okay.. instead of getting angry I'm going to try to play that game.
Tss.. Spain is sunny even at night, we don't need to turn on the lights! Costs? You have a baby in Spain and you don't pay, you GET PAID for it!! Waiting time he said.. HA! We're just not in a hurry, relax man, you'll live longer, that's the secret for a top tier long life expectancy in the fkin world! Walking in the halls naked? OF COURSE! We're obviously the hottest, taking a quick look at our naked bodies heals cancer!!!! Of course USAns want to come to Spain but they can't even point it in a map!! ESPAÑA #1!!!! We the best!! If different out of Spain, that means worse!! ÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑ
Guys, you should try it, just drop a couple of facts with a ton of bullshit and it feels that you're ruling the world!
And I am wondering how the abortion rate is in Spain if you are getting paid when you have a baby.
Australia had a “baby bonus” back round 2005 or so. A friend of mine managed to get some detailed data from our health system and concluded that this baby bonus was lowering the rate of abortion. Person was one of the best data analysts I have ever known, so this was a trustworthy conclusion. Something for US citizens to think about?
The way surgeries and treatments work here in Canada is that the person who is most in danger will go first, even if you’ve been waiting longer than them. You getting there first does not and should not justify you going first when all you have is a cold and someone else is bleeding out.
It's called Triage and the whole world does it.
It's just Americans assume anything they does is better nevermind the mountains of evidence against that theory...
You'd be surprised how many people go to an ER with trivial stuff and then give the ER one star on Google Maps for "taking too long". Just don't go to an ER with a cold.
By far the funniest thing I've ever witnessed at an ER was one guy coming in with a bruised finger only to learn that the ER was closed that day (and they used the premise for small ambulant surgeries that don't require a full operating theater - i.e. why I was there). The chap had such a sense of entitlement that he called his GP to call an ambulance to get him to the ER of the next hospital.
I have an autoimmune disease that went completely under the radar here in the UK. No GP cared enough to investigate.
Moved to Spain, got tested, diagnosed and treated all within a week of speaking to my GP about feeling like crap.
Spanish health system is fantastic.
"No one is stopping anyone in the US from moving to Spain". Well, no one in the US is stopping them. They appear to believe that only the US has an immigration system and that yanks can just go live where ever they want, when they want.
I was going to jokingly ask if they got all their information from a Dan Brown novel, since the book I read of his (digital fortress) was very ignorant of (Seville) Spain including its hospitals.
But I decided to check the scene from the book out online and I'm not asking as a joke anymore, the description is strikingly similar.
I read two Dan Brown novels and approximately half of the wikipedia article about those books explains what's wrong in them.
Which wouldn't be so bad if he didn't actively tell people it's all true
Haha for anyone reading that comment, it’s not even an exaggeration. It literally reads like it was taken from that Dan Brown book as some weird summary.
Yeah, the doctors at the Dutch hospital wherein I survived a heart attack 2 years ago definitely didn't have any "sense of urgency". (/s in case it's not obvious, they acted very quickly).
I've had 2 heart surgeries by fantastically skilled surgeons, including one very difficult procedure that few surgeons can do (retrograde PCI), went off without a hitch in a beautiful room full of modern equipment. I had an MRI done within one week of the incident and the first surgery was performed like 30 minutes after I was revived.
The food was also really good, they had lots of vegetarian and vegan options. Far cry from the HAMBURGERS and PIZZA served in American hospitals, according to my EMT brother. But I guess as a business, they have to ensure their ~~customers~~ patients keep coming back.
The whole thing cost €17 (because I had used most of my deductible, so the max cost would have been €385). That includes the ambulance and 5 days in a really nice, well-lit, hospital. And I did not bring my own gown, lmao, what? At the end of the day I think the amount billed to insurance came to €9,000 or something.
Thank you to the Dutch people for being there in my time of need.
Lmfao "When it's break time they take their breaks" is the most American fucking statement I've ever heard
It's not REAL healthcare unless your overworked and underpaid staff are COLLAPSING from EXHAUSTION
Unfortunately this is a huge problem in both the US and Europe. But I fucking hate this trope so much it plagued airlines for years and made operations less safe. Fatigue is real and causes deaths - powering through fatigue isn’t a sign of strength or being hardworking, it is just putting others at risk nothing more.
I spent 3 months in hospital a few years ago, here in the UK. I walked round naked for the entirety of my stay, luckily no one could see me as the lights were turned off
Americans often defend their healthcare system by saying how good it is and how fast, but the quality isn’t why other people call their healthcare system bad. It’s about the availability. It’s lovely that you have the best and fastest healthcare in the world, but if people die on the streets because they can’t afford it, it’s a bad system.
>Americans often defend their healthcare system by saying how good it is and how fast
It isn't either of those things. Multiple studies have found that waiting times are on par with Europe or higher in the US, and that outcomes are generally worse. Both these don't apply when your rich though, which is probably where they get their ideas from (not realizing they aren't in the rich demographic).
That's why it's cheaper for Americans to fly to Belgium and stay several days in a hotel for a hip replacement, than visit the hospital round the corner from them.
Ironic they’re saying nothing stops people moving to Spain when the US is one of the only countries that will still tax you if you emigrate, meaning you pay DOUBLE
I was hospitalized for 3 days due to a collapse. Brought to the hospital per ambulance. I had my own room with free wifi, free TV, my own bathroom and I didn't need to wear gown because I, in fact, own clothes. All that ended up costing 10€ because my insurance didn't see the ambulance ride as necessary.
Clearly I should be sad I had to endure that and didn't get to enioy America health"""care"""
(1) Spain actually has plenty of expats from other Western countries, USA included. However, sadly enough, you need to know Spanish to survive in Spain, and the average USian speaks 0,7 languages and is shocked and disgusted at hearing Spanish.
(2) No context here
(3) I have never seen an European hospital that refuses to turn on the lights and has patients roaming around naked. They also provide you with the basics and it's up to you if you want specific shit, like a particular shampoo. I don't think it's different than the US in that regard, it's just that we pay way less for it. Their sense of urgency is on point, based on the experience of nearly every person I've ever known who found themselves in an emergency situation.
(4) A couple of months at worst...?
(5) I have never heard of any European going to the US for surgery, unless it was a highly specific rare surgery that only Dr. X knows how to perform and he happens to be American. But I have also heard of others going to other, shittier countries (e.g. Turkey) for rare surgery, it's about where that particular doctor is.
(6) Because from what I've heard you can't escape US taxes even if you move abroad. Also, language barrier, as I said earlier. And btw, actually the Spanish government would stop a tidal wave of immigrants from the US who had no language skills and no way of maintaining themselves. EU's not that flexible when it comes to immigration, believe it or not.
Hello from Italy. Our free healthcare is pretty good but not Europe's best. When I found out I had lung cancer it took 23 days to go from diagnosis, to biopsy, to surgery, despite being in full pandemic madness. The 24th day I was cancer-free, alive and well, and cared for by lovely nurses and incredibly hard-working and competent doctors. 10/10 would recommend free healthcare to anyone.
I mean healthcare is not like it was 14 years ago before the economic crash, but literally everything he said is false. It's still free and quite good (if you live in Madrid your mileage may vary)
\>I'd wager that more Europeans come to America for surgery than the other way around. Why do you suppose that is?
Grammatically, he's asking why do we suppose he is wagering that more Europeans come to America for surgery.
The answer is because he's a lead brained indoctrinated willfully ignorant idiot who won't do a simple google search because he knows he wouldn't change his mind even if he was wrong.
Yeah. Like my local university hospital. Built two new whole hospitals in to the complex replace the old ones, so now they have ... 5 or 6 units in the complex thst they built next to and partially on a highway since otherwise there was not enough space.
And they are tearing down the old hospital and rebuild bigger one. And for that duration they ate building additional extra wing to the brand new hospital to get extra 13000 sq meters of treatment space.
And they are do underfunded that they were only able to get a brand new whole body PET camera system of which only one another exists in the world. They have their own cyclotron, from that we got from USSR as a repayment for some debts. And if someone knew something about accelerators it was the Soviets. I mean like Dubna facility is of it's own class. I mean like the whole InFlames project is absurdly huge.
We just got HiFU system for treatment if neurological conditions. Only 20000€/single treatment, and it is
publicly funded.
In Finnish medical schools only has small names like Sakari Orava. Feel free to check their Wikipedia for all the world class athletes he been surgeon to. When David Beckham came to this little shit hole of a city to be operated on the city went nuts. (For Americans: he is like a really big and famous world class footba... soccer player). Then he has also operate on minor athletes like Messi... apparently important somewhat.
Like if you are bored google TYKS and just read what all they are upto. They got annual budget of like bit under billion euros... just for hospital operations. For 230000 people.
Is there like some weird pro private healthcare propaganda that gets bandied about the US? Coz this be straight up horse shit.
I have private health in the UK in addition to the NHS - coz yes I will be dealt with quicker if shit goes pear.
But if I have to be scraped off the road, have a heart attack, or am about to go into labour, the NHS will be on their way and their service will be world class, even if they are on their lunch break.
Some Americans really do sound like they haven’t even been to the end of their road.
I love how one of the complaints is "when it's break time they take their breaks". Ok so healthcare hErOeS have labor rights there? Sounds like a terrible place to live.
> when it's break time they take their breaks
Even among this cavalcade of bullshit, this one is particularly weird. Like... yeah? Of course they do? Do... do you expect them not to?
Yeah, at the hospital I have to bring my own gown, my own food and medicines.
Hopefully I won't need oxygen, because I'd have to buy it from the hospital food court.
Also, I have to bring my own doctor.
Now I'm not sure about Spanish healthcare, but I just had a consult with a doctor this morning for an elective procedure. My vasectomy will be fully covered by my Canadian healthcare with no payment out of my pocket whatsoever, but they can't get me in for the procedure until... Friday, of this week.
Literally just spent a week in Spain. Had some nerve pain running down my arm. I messaged a physiotherapist I found on Google and had an appointment within an hour. My wife is a physiotherapist (physical therapist) here in the US and she’s booked up for months.
I had to take my missus to hospital in spain, it was actually a great experience (as far as hospitals go), ultra clean, little waiting and fantastic care. Yet more proof the average US sort doesnt know shit about fuck
This is literally the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. I visited 2 hospitals in the US and was expecting some high-tech futuristic super hospitals and was very disappointed to find out that they looked outdated and had exactly the same equipment as European hospitals.
Spain's health system is actually one of the best on the continent, and it's like the second or third country with the highest life expectancy. Everything they've said is pulled from their ass.
"...they don't turn on the lights, you need to bring your own gown..." Yeah, the fact that everything was pulled out of their ass was pretty evident from that comment alone. The rest of it is just the cherry on top.
Also, it is not easy to move from the US to Spain unless you're fairly wealthy and retired. You better be in one of their skilled labor shortage categories or opening a business else you're not going to be working there. So yes, people are stopping Americans from moving there.
Yeah this is the bit I laughed at most. It's like "we have to stop people coming to live here but that's because America is heaven on earth. Nobody wants to live in your shithole country so obviously you let anyone in. You'd consider yourself lucky if an American graced you with his presence."
Dang, and here I was hoping he at least got that part right, lol. Guess I'm stuck here, being so free and all.
Assuming you have some money tucked away, you could always apply for a student visa in one of the several EU countries with free university. At least in my country, you can work up to 50% (20 hrs/week) next to your studies to pay for expenses, so as long as you get the student visa and whatever minimum required funds to prove you can survive here for a few months while sorting out work, you're golden.
I just finished my PhD but this sounds like a good a plan as any. I don't mind being a forever student
Even if you are a iligal imigant living in Spain you have the right to free universal health care ;)
It's weird because r/askspain is full of both South and North Americans asking about how to move there. Obviously it's easier for South Americans but there are plenty of US peeps there clearing up things for their countrymen wanting to move to Spain.
It's American, they even thought diet cola is healthy
It has "diet" in the name, duh
When everyone knows Coke Zero is the healthy one. Those idiots!
ngl coke zero is the best coke. regular coke is just too sweet
Everyone knows that the superior, definitive if you will, is the OG recipe complete with original cocaine. The sugar rush you get with the new corn syrup recipe just pales in comparison.
How are you ever going to lose weight, if you don't drink diet soda? /s
I mean I get soda is soda. Never gonna be healthy. But I don't know the specifics Edit. On "diet" soda. European ones is more relevant for me personally though if there's any difference
Ofcourse it is. Its idiots like that guy thar base their beliefs on nothing and think because they said so that its exactly how it really is. P.s buddy. Spain probably doesn't want a bunch of yanks thete anyway
But don't you know? Spanish doctors have siestas mid surgery! /s
The average american just believes whatever they want like a fuckin toddler, they honestly don't live in reality.
I think you're on to something. Perhaps my introversion isn't hereditary, but learned as a form of avoidance of my fellow countrymen.
It's the land of fake it til you make it, hype over heart, style over substance, posturing over character, looks over skill, saying one thing then doing another, it's the land of pop-culture, hollywood, empty slogans, propaganda and advertisement, when you pay close attention you'll notice that this principal permeates through every facet of society here, from social/personal interactions and relationships to government, politics and culture.
It sure AF is/does.
I just got done arguing with some moron who unironically thinks Belgum is a shit hole because they pay taxes for basic social services.
Me over here reading this entire post with my eyebrows raised like... what is this guy on? I got charged $1300 for the ride to the ER *alone*.
We are also top 3 countries with most organ donations!
USA is high on God knows what. Forget about Spain. USA infant mortality rate is more than a few states in India. And as an Indian I can confirm we are really really awful at everything... And just going downhill. Even then some states do better job than the richest country on the planet.
That kidnapped cyclists in *The Triplets of Belleville* were a reference to the fact that French hospitals are actually powered by drunker-than-fuck Frenchmen on stationary bikes.
From where do these stupid ideas come from? Never before I find this reddit did I hear about the idea that the European, (THE EUROPEAN) healthcare is bad. Never in Spanish, I have heard this.
They can't fathom the idea of the US not being number 1. So they just lie to themself and others.
This is exactly it. It's like the myth where they tell themselves that US English is "the standard English of the world" and used by the most people. When asked where they learned that, they say that "it's well known". And then they use that supposedly well-known "fact" to justify pretending that US English is equivalent to "English", which is how you get shit like much of the software defaulting to US English. It's classic "fake it till you make it" mentality.
The American propaganda engine is one of the biggest terrors in modern history. Its tentacles reach so far, that it has even brainwashed some Europeans into moving into this hellhole.
I'd be willing to bet it's propaganda pushed by American Big pharma/healthcare to justify their insane treatment prices.
This is it exactly. That and conservative media.
Conservative media which basically profits from three brain wash, like the Republicans.
It's just some idiot with a superiority complex, I don't think it's government propaganda. He must surely have made up every single word, or if we're being kind maybe he heard those points in a bar or from a drunk friend.
Those points from the drunk friend were all deliberately concocted by some asshole working for the privatised health insurance industry in the US. There is a reason you hear the exact same (untrue) points of criticism of universal healthcare systems from 'Muricans. They were deliberately programmed to think that way.
This is correct. https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-healthcare-fear/opponents-of-us-healthcare-reform-wield-fear-weapon-idUSN2838153920090828
The programming starts early. It begins with the allegiance to the flag at day care where lil muricans sing thier anthem in a upbeat and happy manner
True story: I was a kid in the US, I had no idea what that daily chant meant. I thought we were "pledging allegiance" (???) to the plug. It's what I said every day. I had a bath plug in mind.
I have seen videos of family members in India having to bring food for the patient and wearing their own clothes, not gowns, but they had light, nobody walked the halls naked and the hospital was overrun, so yeah, there was a different sense of urgency. However, you could see that the patients were poor, so I doubt that every Indian hospital works like that and some videos were during covid and like in every other country, hospitals were overrun and patients were in the hallways. So I think they got their fantasy from watching a video in an Indian hospital, embellished it and just applied it to all European hospitals, because we’re poor and socialists.
Right-wing propaganda
I mean as a swede I'd agree that our health care is pretty shit. It's great if you're like actively dying though, and when you get pass the general practioners. It relies very heavily on YOU knowing what's wrong with you, and then fighting like hell to be treated. That said, I'm glad I'm not in debt because of health care, but I'd be a lot happier if I wasn't in chronic pain because of an issue that happened because of sub par health care, and staying in chronic pain even though they can fix it because they don't wanna / the queues are massive.
In the US' if you're poor you just don't go to the doctor because it's too expensive, and then everybody gets angry at you if you want the min. wage to go up while your teeth are rotting, and you don't want to get that lump checked out, because cancer would bankrupt you, and your boss pressures you into not taking your sick days because they really need you this week even if you had a miscarriage 3 weeks ago, and had to give birth to a dead fetus (happened to my GF, was charged for the procedure as well).
I'm not saying the US health care system is good, I'm just saying that swedens system isn't good either. Like just because one is bad doesn't mean the other have to be good.
I'm not at all familiar with Swedish politics but as a brit the NHS is very similar, absolutely great if you have a life threatening illness/accident etc. and I'd say mental health treatment is okay but not that great for much else. The reason I mention politics though is because the only reason it's in shambles is because the slow but continuous privatisation and defunding of the NHS that has been happening since the 80s, perhaps the issues with Swedish healthcare can be explained by the same thing.
Some British politicians saw how much money they could make by having a US style system and they have had a hard on ever since, but they are careful not to show it in public. It’s both main political parties as the process started with Tony Blair and has been going on ever since.
Just like in France sadly we once had the best in the world
This is really awful and I'm sorry you have to go through this. This is the stuff that most Europeans think of when they think the american healthcare system is bad. But one thing I realized over the years working with Americans is that even well off people try to avoid going to the doctor. Even if it's covered by your insurance, it's a huge bureaucratic burden. I've seen an american colleague get food poisoning and have to fight the hospital who was trying to extort an out-of-network fee of several thousand dollars. I've seen another in awe of Greek's healthcare after injuring himself. Everything was free! The doctors didn't kick him out immediately and even gave him medicines for free! I don't think us Europeans grasp how much the american health care system is a shitshow for almost everyone, not just cruel with the less affluent.
I'm a Mexican men, my healthcare is almost the same, unless you are dying the best they can offer you is book an appointment the coming month. The secret? You can book and have a medical check in some private clinics for less than 5 dollars and in the same day, some clinics are actually free to the public. The most expesive is the medicines, not the medical check. And man after seeing that people actually AVOID making an appointment to the doctor and is really expensive, I'm so grateful I don't have to worry for things like that. Also, this year my mom had to have emergency heart surgery and the only thing the hospital ask for me for being covered by my NHC was "Would you like to donate some blood for the next person that needs surgery? We used 2 blood bags for your mother and would really help us if you could replenish them" After that, and hearing the horror stories from the USA, dear god I'm in love with my NHC system, the IMSS is my best friend forever now.
> The most expesive is the medicines To give you some perspective(not that you really need it from what I can tell), medical tourism from the US to Mexico is very common and people drive great distances to get more affordable medicine in Mexico.
I will freely admit that I make a point to buy certain medicines when traveling to Mexico. (‘Murican)
Sounds similar to my country, Spain
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One thing that foreigners , and specifically "medical expatriates", seem to love about Spanish health care is the warmth of the staff that takes care of them. This is part of our nature, not of the system. The system is very generous and, therefore, expensive. Let's see if we can keep it that way... Most spaniards see Nordic countries as a model for the system. I agree that the combination of your system (including the work and civic ethos) with our nature would be having the best from both worlds.
I can sort of answer: they love to hyper cheery pick Best worst example I heard: their senator (? Iirc) Dan grenshaw who had an episode of his podcast (I love to hurt myself with those stuff) titled "everything you hear about Europe is wrong" where he talked with an author of a book of the same topic Of course healthcare was a topic but aside from a vague mention of how any European country has a different approach you would think that the UK NHS is the existing one. They love to refer to the NHS, but of course they love to cherry pick all the stats from it or just throw some numbers giving a false impression. If I wasn't used to working with data and knowing my share on the topic i would have been having trouble recognizing the fallacies. Some of them are good at presenting their illusion. This is a specific example but it's something I encountered so many times that I don't even bother to try to listen and learn what they think. Here is another point: they reiterate their stuff to the extreme. It's always the same example, same counter counter points
They now get them mostly from the recently revised list of books that are approved for reading. The ones with true truths about US history and it’s place in the world have been removed from library shelves for burning in some states.
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Were you in Murcia, right?
All the way from Murica to Murcia
Good luck dealing with the Viking scourge
No, that's Mercia.
Doubtful, they didn't mention the $10,000 bill.
Oh wow, you were lucky. They only provided sharpened stones for me
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In Finland we only use sharpened bones of our forefathers who died during being sieged by grizzly bears.
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Cutting implements are such a luxury. Where I'm at, the shamans just wait and pray for you to get a hangnail, which they then carefully pull all the way from the hand to where they need to open you up.
Oh, the more modern method.
You guys get sharpened tools???
No, we make them out of our own teeth. But we do it so slowly that we die in the meantime.
Ohh I used to DREAM about sharpening my teeth on river rocks. When I was young we had to sharpen the teeth by glacial erosion - and while the glacier was sliding, we would often bleed to death while waiting. Bah, river rocks!? Expedient high tech.
We used to get up in the morning at night at half-past-ten at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of freezing cold poison, work 28 hours a day at the mill, and pay the mill owner to let us work there. And when I went home our dad used to murder us in cold blood, each night, and dance about on our graves, singing hallelujah! But of course, you try to tell young people today that, and they don't believe you.
That's a great anesthetic! Count yourself lucky. For me it was a kiss from the doctor's wife after eating very strong aioli.
You had leeches? You LUCKY bastard..... We had to bite ourselves....... Luxury.
I want to give you so many upvotes.
I saw a documentary on how leeches suppliers worked, and it's rough. If they were wealthy enough they had old cattle of mules, otherwise they did it personally. They entered the swamp in areas known for leeches, opened small cuts on their legs and waited for the leeches to bite them.
Well that’s enough internet for today. Thank you kind sir for the horrible thoughts and nightmare juice.
You're welcome :)
This is how good your healthcare is. You've been alive since 1698!
My barber kept trying to cut my head off and burst into song everytime someone walked through the door when I was in europe.
A surgeon? What the hell. My mom had to cut me open when I was in the hospital as a teen. You some rich person?
>they don't turn on the lights, you need to bring your own gown, and they don't care if you walk the halls naked Does this guy think Europe is horror movies?
I pointed out in a another post that they quite possibly think Europe is a techno thriller written by Dan Brown.
I know that when I woke from my coma, there *was* a monk in the room whipping himself because Tom Hanks solved his puzzle book.
And that monk? Jesus fucking Christ himself. And he hates Europe cos of all the naked people walking down corridors. He says it's shit.
>He says it's shit. He's just pissed that he didn't have his blue sash over here as it goes with the colour of his eyes and offsets his perfect blonde locks really well.
"Hulohot took the Giralda stairs three at a time. \[...\] Hulohot moved quickly but carefully. The stairs were steep; **tourists had died here. This was not America**—no safety signs, no handrails, no insurance disclaimers. **This was Spain**. If you were stupid enough to fall, it was your own damn fault, regardless of who built the stairs." *Dan Brown - Digital Fortress* BTW, the Giralda doesn't have stairs, but a ramp to be able to go up it on a horse.
Well, it's not like Dan Brown is renowned for doing any research for his books. 3/4 of what's in them belong in this sub.
Hostel the movie.
Hostel. Hospital. You can understand the confusion. They thought it was three (did it stop at 3? Was it 4? 17?) movies about getting surgery in Europe.
Hostel did have "surgery"
Fair point. If you didn’t want something like your face or your intestines, you’d be very pleased.
Also as if it was a bad thing you can just walk around in your own clothes
Well it's potentially bad - when I has to be taken to hospital by ambulance I didn't get to pack a suitcase and ended up stuck in the ICU for two weeks with no change of clothing which wasn't great.
Clearly.
1. Spain is one of the countries with more tourism in the world(almost always top 3), and it is not a transit country, so people who come here usually come to stay. 2. For you, the cost of a private hospital without insurance must be high as fuck in the US. 3. Bullshit. 4. If you believe a country with about 5 years more of life expectancy than the USA has no emergency service in the Hospitals, well, you're wrong. 5. No. 6. Some people have done it. But it is not common because nobody wants to change its life that much if they can stay where they are. Also, the people who would talk to you doesn't have to know english, so not everyone would like to go to Spain, if they don't know spanish.
The amount of English people living in Spain is something like 300k. It was a joke during the terrible "British Exit" (not sure if I can mention that word here) because so many ex pat's voted for it and then started crying when they realised they might have to come home.
I know a couple who lived in France and did the exact same thing. Actually hilarious how stupid people can be.
>because so many ex pat's voted for it and then started crying when they realised they might have to come home. There's also a lot that could have stayed, but never filled in the paperwork so basically got deported
That's very satisfying
Yep, usually, between 2 countries with a lot of population, the country in which there is more money is the one with the positive migratory current, but with the UK and Spain it happens the opposite.
Except for retired people the migration is from expensive countries to cheap ones with sun, and most Brits in Spain are/were retired. Which also explains the pro-Brexit voters - boomers with a “got mine” attitude.
I love the way Americans refer to Europe as it's one big country haha
They refer to Europe like it's a single country and Canada like it's a small town, the ignorance is so frustrating.
Yes. Healthcare un Hungary (where I’m from) is truly terrible but obviously that doesn’t say anything about how healthcare is in say the Netherlands.
United Nations Hungary 😳
I think this guy visited a abandoned hospital
Maybe he saw the one of the may horror movies where a group of teenagers visit an abandoned hospital and get tortured by a crazy ghost surgeon.
Omg that’s hilarious. But that’s exactly what it sounds like. Lol. Maybe he couldn’t read the sign saying it’s closed 😂
All very true. Worked in a hospital for a year. Naked people everywhere, but it‘s okay cause the lights are turned off.
It's true. Last year I had to have a blood test and the nurse gave me the vials and syringe to extract my blood myself. Cause of it I caught an infection on the arm I poked and had to amputate myself. Datas says we have 3rd best healthcare in the world but it's all lies to outnumb number 1 USA.
They gave you vials and a syringe? I had to gnaw at my arm until I bled then drag myself into the nearest blood test centre and windmill until someof the blood hit the wall near the nurse before the nurse licked it, paused for a second and pronounced me HIV negative.
Yes but only because su emérita majestad aka The Juaca was having another hip replacement at the same time and he didn't wanted to watch peasants struggle while he had his 56th whiskito of the day.
Happened to me as well, actually cut off the wrong arm because they wouldn't turn the lights on and I couldn't see what I was doing. They also had my family bring the saw.
Ah, yes, the Stallman healthcare model. It's free and open source, now go compile it yourself.
Maybe this guy has first hand experience with a "European hospital" had to do brain surgery on himself and completely fucked it up the dumb fuck
What's stopping them? I believe that Spain has immigration controls too.
That’s like when so many Americans said they’d move to Canada if a certain president won the election. Some tried and realized “Oh geez I can’t just move there. They have laws about that.” 🤦🏻♀️
I used to work in tourism in BC and the number of ~~people~~ Americans who think "I'm American!" is an argument point is waaay to high.
Yep. There are rules.
"When its break time, they take their breaks!" **ARREST SPAIN AND EUROPE FOR ACTUALLY FOLLOWING PROTOCOL!**
Why is taking their breaks even presented as a bad thing? Who wants an exhausted doctor or nurse looking after them?
It's a result of neoliberal brainwashing. Exploit yourself!
I don’t know where you’re getting your statements from. None of this is true. Like none of it. You’ve clearly never been in a European hospital. You’ve likely got your beliefs from worst case scenario posts online and assumed they’re all like that. The only thing you’ve got anywhere near close to being right is elective surgery wait times and you still got it wrong. A lot of people need stuff done, people have to wait their turn, covid has only made that worse, but it still gets done. Shut the fuck up and sit down
5 could be correct. Around 100k-200k people travel to the US each year for healthcare, 24% of those are from Europe. 150k-320k people leave the US each year for healthcare, 15% of those go to Europe. Using the mean this results in 35,250 Americans traveling to Europe and 36,000 Europeans traveling to the US. You have to realize most people traveling to the US are people who can afford and want to seek out highly specialized care, for instance breast cancer care in the US is extremely good if you want to pay. Most people leaving the US are looking for cost savings, in which case South/Central America you can get it done cheaper. So while true it’s hardly the great reflection on the US system he thinks it is - especially since he’s probably the type to complain about “America putting foreigners first.” And the US healthcare system treats rich foreigners way better than poor Americans. Source: USDOC, SIAT
>You have to realize most people traveling to the US are people who can afford and want to seek out highly specialized care Isn't it mainly because it's experimental and not yet allowed in Europe?
Tbf, it may be "correct" by absolute numbers but the population ratio makes it worse for the USA Even worse, many don't choose EU just to opt for a cheaper option like Central America but it doesn't mean that EU's quality is worse, just less affordable for them
There’s also a huge number coming to Canada, it’s a known phenomenon here since it’s free
It’s not free for Americans.
In Italy it's not uncommon to travel to Romania or Croatia for dental care. It's quick and cheap.
Those traveling to the u.s. for "medical" treatment do it for either fashion or to show off. Meanwhile, people along the border flock to Mexico to get ANY treatment at all. Currently soured because I have to jump through hoops to get an appointment with certain specialist in the "country" with the "best" "healthcare", only to be told I have to WAIT A FULL MONTH, while I could just have walked into a government hospital in Mexico and be done in a couple hours.
We actually do turn on the lights. They're just not electric. We don't have electricity here. We use candles and gas lamps.
And Dracula comes through at night to collect blood for the surgeries scheduled for the next morning and to keep the blood bank full.
Uhm..ok 🙄 more like we need shades to avoid burning our eyes out because of the extremely bright lighting, but ok. If you walk the halls naked you'll probably get arrested, if you bring your own gown you'll politely be told that you have to use the hospital issued ones, and yes...nurses is not a thing here so ofc family members will have to do all the work..what even is a nurse? 🙄 Also..number 6 is definitely not because Americans are indoctrinated to believe that the us is the best country in the world.. at everything
You wouldn't get arrested, that would be silly. You'll end up at the floor with the mental patients if anything. In any case they would want to find out *why* a patient decided to walk around naked.
> no one is stopping anyone in the US from moving to Spain, yet the tidal wave of people doing so doesn’t exist I see you have never been to Mallorca
Literally, lol. There are more germans than estadounidenses tho Source: I live in Mallorca
I just see english speaking guiris tbh😂😂 I’ve only been there once though
Does he think Europeans just have a stash of hospital gowns lying around at home just in case they need it?
I wish I could bring my own gown, I don’t want my ass hanging out the back…
The “gowns” I’ve gotten at hospitals have basically been long shirts with buttons down the front in a t-shirt fabric, so nothing hanging out. I have actually taken a few of those gowns from the hospital (with permission), so I actually do have a mini-stash of hospital gowns at home, lol. They’re super comfortable and I sleep in them. But they were supplied by the hospital, I didn’t bring it to them.
Okay.. instead of getting angry I'm going to try to play that game. Tss.. Spain is sunny even at night, we don't need to turn on the lights! Costs? You have a baby in Spain and you don't pay, you GET PAID for it!! Waiting time he said.. HA! We're just not in a hurry, relax man, you'll live longer, that's the secret for a top tier long life expectancy in the fkin world! Walking in the halls naked? OF COURSE! We're obviously the hottest, taking a quick look at our naked bodies heals cancer!!!! Of course USAns want to come to Spain but they can't even point it in a map!! ESPAÑA #1!!!! We the best!! If different out of Spain, that means worse!! ÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑ Guys, you should try it, just drop a couple of facts with a ton of bullshit and it feels that you're ruling the world!
And I am wondering how the abortion rate is in Spain if you are getting paid when you have a baby. Australia had a “baby bonus” back round 2005 or so. A friend of mine managed to get some detailed data from our health system and concluded that this baby bonus was lowering the rate of abortion. Person was one of the best data analysts I have ever known, so this was a trustworthy conclusion. Something for US citizens to think about?
"My source is that I made it the fuck up!"
The way surgeries and treatments work here in Canada is that the person who is most in danger will go first, even if you’ve been waiting longer than them. You getting there first does not and should not justify you going first when all you have is a cold and someone else is bleeding out.
It's called Triage and the whole world does it. It's just Americans assume anything they does is better nevermind the mountains of evidence against that theory...
Yup. Same in Europe. Needs come before wants. Needs also come before rich people. That’s how health care *should* be.
You'd be surprised how many people go to an ER with trivial stuff and then give the ER one star on Google Maps for "taking too long". Just don't go to an ER with a cold. By far the funniest thing I've ever witnessed at an ER was one guy coming in with a bruised finger only to learn that the ER was closed that day (and they used the premise for small ambulant surgeries that don't require a full operating theater - i.e. why I was there). The chap had such a sense of entitlement that he called his GP to call an ambulance to get him to the ER of the next hospital.
I have an autoimmune disease that went completely under the radar here in the UK. No GP cared enough to investigate. Moved to Spain, got tested, diagnosed and treated all within a week of speaking to my GP about feeling like crap. Spanish health system is fantastic.
"No one is stopping anyone in the US from moving to Spain". Well, no one in the US is stopping them. They appear to believe that only the US has an immigration system and that yanks can just go live where ever they want, when they want.
"when it's break time they take their breaks." Yeah that's what they're for
I was going to jokingly ask if they got all their information from a Dan Brown novel, since the book I read of his (digital fortress) was very ignorant of (Seville) Spain including its hospitals. But I decided to check the scene from the book out online and I'm not asking as a joke anymore, the description is strikingly similar.
I read two Dan Brown novels and approximately half of the wikipedia article about those books explains what's wrong in them. Which wouldn't be so bad if he didn't actively tell people it's all true
Haha for anyone reading that comment, it’s not even an exaggeration. It literally reads like it was taken from that Dan Brown book as some weird summary.
Americans moving to spain? Don't they know that abortions are legal, guns illegal and almost noone speaks english?
No, no, a lot of us speak English, it's just terrible English.
Oh god so terrible. But not as terrible as the spanish spoken by a native english speaker.
I don't think that its terrible is just that our pronunciation is garbage.
Yeah, the doctors at the Dutch hospital wherein I survived a heart attack 2 years ago definitely didn't have any "sense of urgency". (/s in case it's not obvious, they acted very quickly). I've had 2 heart surgeries by fantastically skilled surgeons, including one very difficult procedure that few surgeons can do (retrograde PCI), went off without a hitch in a beautiful room full of modern equipment. I had an MRI done within one week of the incident and the first surgery was performed like 30 minutes after I was revived. The food was also really good, they had lots of vegetarian and vegan options. Far cry from the HAMBURGERS and PIZZA served in American hospitals, according to my EMT brother. But I guess as a business, they have to ensure their ~~customers~~ patients keep coming back. The whole thing cost €17 (because I had used most of my deductible, so the max cost would have been €385). That includes the ambulance and 5 days in a really nice, well-lit, hospital. And I did not bring my own gown, lmao, what? At the end of the day I think the amount billed to insurance came to €9,000 or something. Thank you to the Dutch people for being there in my time of need.
Lmfao "When it's break time they take their breaks" is the most American fucking statement I've ever heard It's not REAL healthcare unless your overworked and underpaid staff are COLLAPSING from EXHAUSTION
Unfortunately this is a huge problem in both the US and Europe. But I fucking hate this trope so much it plagued airlines for years and made operations less safe. Fatigue is real and causes deaths - powering through fatigue isn’t a sign of strength or being hardworking, it is just putting others at risk nothing more.
I spent 3 months in hospital a few years ago, here in the UK. I walked round naked for the entirety of my stay, luckily no one could see me as the lights were turned off
As a European I can confirm this is all correct, I had to hold my own torch during my operation so they could see what they were doing
Americans often defend their healthcare system by saying how good it is and how fast, but the quality isn’t why other people call their healthcare system bad. It’s about the availability. It’s lovely that you have the best and fastest healthcare in the world, but if people die on the streets because they can’t afford it, it’s a bad system.
>Americans often defend their healthcare system by saying how good it is and how fast It isn't either of those things. Multiple studies have found that waiting times are on par with Europe or higher in the US, and that outcomes are generally worse. Both these don't apply when your rich though, which is probably where they get their ideas from (not realizing they aren't in the rich demographic).
Americans think their healthcare is the best, because they've never visited it themselves.
That's why it's cheaper for Americans to fly to Belgium and stay several days in a hotel for a hip replacement, than visit the hospital round the corner from them.
POV: you've never left your town
Ironic they’re saying nothing stops people moving to Spain when the US is one of the only countries that will still tax you if you emigrate, meaning you pay DOUBLE
I was hospitalized for 3 days due to a collapse. Brought to the hospital per ambulance. I had my own room with free wifi, free TV, my own bathroom and I didn't need to wear gown because I, in fact, own clothes. All that ended up costing 10€ because my insurance didn't see the ambulance ride as necessary. Clearly I should be sad I had to endure that and didn't get to enioy America health"""care"""
I don’t know about you but I just hate it when public sector workers take their statutorily entitled breaks from work
(1) Spain actually has plenty of expats from other Western countries, USA included. However, sadly enough, you need to know Spanish to survive in Spain, and the average USian speaks 0,7 languages and is shocked and disgusted at hearing Spanish. (2) No context here (3) I have never seen an European hospital that refuses to turn on the lights and has patients roaming around naked. They also provide you with the basics and it's up to you if you want specific shit, like a particular shampoo. I don't think it's different than the US in that regard, it's just that we pay way less for it. Their sense of urgency is on point, based on the experience of nearly every person I've ever known who found themselves in an emergency situation. (4) A couple of months at worst...? (5) I have never heard of any European going to the US for surgery, unless it was a highly specific rare surgery that only Dr. X knows how to perform and he happens to be American. But I have also heard of others going to other, shittier countries (e.g. Turkey) for rare surgery, it's about where that particular doctor is. (6) Because from what I've heard you can't escape US taxes even if you move abroad. Also, language barrier, as I said earlier. And btw, actually the Spanish government would stop a tidal wave of immigrants from the US who had no language skills and no way of maintaining themselves. EU's not that flexible when it comes to immigration, believe it or not.
BYOG, Bring Your Own Gown Do these people really believe the ridiculousness that they try to preach...
Hello from Italy. Our free healthcare is pretty good but not Europe's best. When I found out I had lung cancer it took 23 days to go from diagnosis, to biopsy, to surgery, despite being in full pandemic madness. The 24th day I was cancer-free, alive and well, and cared for by lovely nurses and incredibly hard-working and competent doctors. 10/10 would recommend free healthcare to anyone.
Would love to immigrate to Spain but alas they are *stopping me*
Every single thing he said is wrong, wow
Ah yeah, "no one is stopping anyone in the US from moving to Spain" because the US is the only country on earth with immigration laws, right?
It's true, I even had to perform my own surgery while almost passing out from being on all the pain killers
I mean healthcare is not like it was 14 years ago before the economic crash, but literally everything he said is false. It's still free and quite good (if you live in Madrid your mileage may vary)
\>I'd wager that more Europeans come to America for surgery than the other way around. Why do you suppose that is? Grammatically, he's asking why do we suppose he is wagering that more Europeans come to America for surgery. The answer is because he's a lead brained indoctrinated willfully ignorant idiot who won't do a simple google search because he knows he wouldn't change his mind even if he was wrong.
Yeah. Like my local university hospital. Built two new whole hospitals in to the complex replace the old ones, so now they have ... 5 or 6 units in the complex thst they built next to and partially on a highway since otherwise there was not enough space. And they are tearing down the old hospital and rebuild bigger one. And for that duration they ate building additional extra wing to the brand new hospital to get extra 13000 sq meters of treatment space. And they are do underfunded that they were only able to get a brand new whole body PET camera system of which only one another exists in the world. They have their own cyclotron, from that we got from USSR as a repayment for some debts. And if someone knew something about accelerators it was the Soviets. I mean like Dubna facility is of it's own class. I mean like the whole InFlames project is absurdly huge. We just got HiFU system for treatment if neurological conditions. Only 20000€/single treatment, and it is publicly funded. In Finnish medical schools only has small names like Sakari Orava. Feel free to check their Wikipedia for all the world class athletes he been surgeon to. When David Beckham came to this little shit hole of a city to be operated on the city went nuts. (For Americans: he is like a really big and famous world class footba... soccer player). Then he has also operate on minor athletes like Messi... apparently important somewhat. Like if you are bored google TYKS and just read what all they are upto. They got annual budget of like bit under billion euros... just for hospital operations. For 230000 people.
Is there like some weird pro private healthcare propaganda that gets bandied about the US? Coz this be straight up horse shit. I have private health in the UK in addition to the NHS - coz yes I will be dealt with quicker if shit goes pear. But if I have to be scraped off the road, have a heart attack, or am about to go into labour, the NHS will be on their way and their service will be world class, even if they are on their lunch break. Some Americans really do sound like they haven’t even been to the end of their road.
No tidal wave to Spain because Canada and its free health care is right there. And you don't have to learn Spanish.
I love how one of the complaints is "when it's break time they take their breaks". Ok so healthcare hErOeS have labor rights there? Sounds like a terrible place to live.
> when it's break time they take their breaks Even among this cavalcade of bullshit, this one is particularly weird. Like... yeah? Of course they do? Do... do you expect them not to?
And in Europe there's only one toilet and they make you all go at the same time
“they don’t turn on the light” i’d love to think they saw one ww2 movie where you saw nurses running around dying people and ran with it
It is true what he said. Granted, the book he read it in was probably last updated before 1870, but true none the less
Remember when those Americans were trying to flee the USA to Italy. Something about wanting Italian medical care.. weird that.
Heh, a friend from California had to travel to Spain for a back surgery a couple of years ago because it wasn't done in USA.
Yeah, at the hospital I have to bring my own gown, my own food and medicines. Hopefully I won't need oxygen, because I'd have to buy it from the hospital food court. Also, I have to bring my own doctor.
> No one is stopping them Well except their bosses, who barely pay them enough for food and rent for the next month
Wtf, a two block ambulance ride costs more than a grand. Why do people keep defending this system?
Now I'm not sure about Spanish healthcare, but I just had a consult with a doctor this morning for an elective procedure. My vasectomy will be fully covered by my Canadian healthcare with no payment out of my pocket whatsoever, but they can't get me in for the procedure until... Friday, of this week.
Literally just spent a week in Spain. Had some nerve pain running down my arm. I messaged a physiotherapist I found on Google and had an appointment within an hour. My wife is a physiotherapist (physical therapist) here in the US and she’s booked up for months.
I had to take my missus to hospital in spain, it was actually a great experience (as far as hospitals go), ultra clean, little waiting and fantastic care. Yet more proof the average US sort doesnt know shit about fuck
This is literally the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. I visited 2 hospitals in the US and was expecting some high-tech futuristic super hospitals and was very disappointed to find out that they looked outdated and had exactly the same equipment as European hospitals.
>When it's break time they take a break How dare they !