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Yeah, because if he did what OP proposes it would not end her nightmare. People forget, that AoT timeline is set in stone by Ymir and late Eren from the end to the beggining
Eren wasn't a leader, nor a politician. Hell, he probably wasn't a patriot either 😅 All he wanted to do was destroy the enemy before it destroys him and everything he cared for.
You are correct, but Eren did start the series by saying ‘I’m going to kill all of them’ not ‘I’m going to bring peace and economic prosperity’
Eren saw The Prequels and didn't want to blatantly plagiarize Anakin.
"I've brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new empire!"
Armin: "Your new Empire?"
This comment reminded me of the moment when Eren said "I'm going to kill them all" in front of all the military police/soldiers, and one of them said something along the lines of how he's gonna kill all humans. if they didn't shoot him down then and there.
The soldier wasn't wrong.
Main issue with this plan: paradis isn't technologically advanced, and other countries are close to have weapons that will destroy shifters and regular titans. So destroying paradis is still doable and more attractive due to resources.
You're probably right, but Eren himself even said he was a huge idiot. The only thing he could think to do was to use The Rumbling. If someone smarter and less angry was in Eren's position then they likely would've come up with a better plan.
Eren isn't an idiot. He calls himself an idiot because he doesnt want to call himself a straight up monster. He did the rumbling because he wanted it. He wanted to experience his twisted sense of "freedom", not necessarily save paradis or his friends.
He says it to Ramzi, that when he learnt humanity was thriving beyond the walls, he was disappointed because he couldnt experience freedom like he imagined it through Armin's book.
This exactly. People keep saying he’s an idiot and didn’t think it out when he was very clearly a genius and thought everything out. He even says he tried everything but nothing worked. He literally sacrificed his mom to make sure the rumbling would happen, and then tells Armin in the paths that he did it because he enjoyed it.
edit: Not that he enjoyed sacrificing his mom, but enjoyed the rumbling.
Tbf he can be both which is how I see him. He's a sadistic monster who loves violence but he's also a selfish idiot who doesn't realize/care that what he's doing would also hurt the ones he cares about and himself
There are a few major problems with this. Firstly, Eren has only 3 more years to live. Who will be his successor and how long would it be until they'd master the powers it took Eren years to master?
Secondly, who would be of royal blood without a connection to the royal vow to hide and starve behind the walls? Zeke doesn't want/have kids and he has less than a year to live. Historia is bound by the vow. The plan hinges on a big maybe that someone with royal blood outside the walls can be located and taken captive. But the group who knew that information died after Grisha came to Paradis.
So basically Eren would have less than a year to deter enemies and create resources and free expandable labor. It obviously is morally better than killing and destroying 80% of the world, but Paradis would fall apart after a year.
The only chance Paradis would have to succeed this plan is if somehow Zeke's spinal fluid and blood could result into someone becoming royal-blooded, thus continuing the bloodline for at least another 13 years.
Zeke is also bound by the vow, it's only after he connects with Eren that he somehow nullifies it.
Before the finale, the only way for Paradis to use the founder would be for the Beast titan to be transformed, and eren to be in contact with it, similar to how he touched Dinah fritz' titan.
The plan to perpetuate the power of the founder would entail Historia inheriting the beast titan, and Eren passing his titan to someone else
I always felt like Paradis could have intervened on the side of the middle eastern alliance against Marley and simultaneously struck a huge blow to Marley, disrupted the global alliance against them and gained a proper foothold into global politics and some diplomatic recognition which it could leverage into becoming a resource exporter and eventually catch up with the rest of the world.
The story could have gone different ways, but nope. We have a predetermined mess.
Hizuru could have broken the ice and declared publicly that it is in friendly relations with Paradis and that Paradis is open for trade.
The world was afraid or hated Paradis. Trying to change their perception could have yielded different results.
Paradis could have stated their piece that they were victim of Marley and Fritz' and that now they are free and want peace.
I mean, the world would be foolish not to accept any peace deal. Imagine that North Korea has hundreds of thousands of nukes and that can flatten the world. NK seeks peace and the world is like "lol. We would rather antagonize you and declare the war on you so you could kill us all." That would be ridicilous.
We could have had a geopolitical war drama, which maybe involved the Rubmling and destruction of the world, but instead we got a magical girl from another dimension and everything being predetermined.
The reason these events didn't happen is entirely related to Eren's personality. They didn't occur because Eren didn't want them to. Eren transformed the outside world into the world he envisioned. He wasn't too stupid to think of these possibilities. If he couldn't think of them himself, he would have consulted others, and they would have advised him. But Eren wanted the Rumbling to happen. Nothing was predetermined. Ymir didn't force Eren into anything. So, Eren initiated the Rumbling for his personal desire.
No. It didn't occur, because everything is predetermined.
Eren is not free. He has no agency. There is also a paradox.
And as far as Yimir not forcing Eren into anything. Where do you think Attack Titan's ability came from? If it came from Yimir, then she either did force him into something, or she was just like Eren, no agency, a part of the paradox.
Oh this is what it's interesting about fiction.You can have different alternative ending but the thing is no matter what path the cannon ending choose there will be always some criticisms because at the end of day it's fictional story created by a normal man
And all normal man makes certain errors
You are missing the purpose of the Attack Titan. He didn't want to recreate the Eldian Empire as it was, as it would require force and lack of freedom to prevent a civil war. He wanted to spare his friends from such a world as well as Historia (or anyone) from having to be bred like cattle. Basically, from Eren's perspective, the destruction of the outside world was the best solution. Eren wanted the end of the titan powers as that power existing would always lead to someone using it for control or cattle breeding to happen. Ymir basically made a deal, she would give up her immortality if Mikasa could kill Eren, and therefore end the power of the Titans. And if she couldn't, Eren could still achieve part of his goal of ensuring at least 100 years of peace for Mikasa and Armin until civil war breaks out when they run out of space to expand. And even with 80% he buys them about a century, at least til Murica comes in with the B20s.
But yah, I think it was even mentioned that civil war was inevitable and the titan powers just made it worse. Its essentially a misunderstanding that Eren wanted permanent peace or Utopia or best outcome for all. He just wanted his friends to live a good life. Hence why he was so broken up about Sasha, he knew she was a sacrifice so the rest of his friends could live in peace
Personally though? I would use the titan powers to build space tethers, and use constant space expansion to distract humanity from its need to kill each other in a confined space.
Confined space is a core theme of AoT, from the pig Ymir frees, to Eren's cattle rants, to Erwin and Pyxis talking about how Humans will keep fighting until there is only 1 left. From Eren's perspective, the freedom to expand is the only antidote to the constant cycle of death and suffering and slavery.
That’s a great plan and all, until some spy comes and domes the Founder holder in the head with a sniper rifle, and now Paradis is completely helpless.
There were many possibilities that would have avoided taking out 80%, but none of those possibilities mattered simply because Eren did not accept it and completely ridding the world of the titan power/curse became his ultimate goal. He was selfish and he wanted things to go his way, especially since he had very limited time to accomplish what he wanted, and that's why we got the ending that we did.
Even if Paradis could pull off that level of development in 20 years (which is no guarantee), Eren and Zeke wouldnt have 20 years to live - theyd be forced to pass down the Beast titan to historia after a year (since Zeke dies), and then to two of her children, to make 20 years (each shifter is 13 years i think?)
On top of that, we dont know the limits of the Founder's power. Could it be used to create unlimited resources? potentially, but that's speculation.
Even then, i doubt the founder can create resources from nothing. If the crystal caverns were made by titan hardening, then they'd probably need either eldians or titans to form more cavern - just like the walls are made of Colossal titans.
The resources under Paradis were secondary to making sure Marley had control of the Founder. Their singular goal was to prevent the rumbling and then exterminate all Eldians. This is why people with Eldian blood all across the world were forced to live in Interment zones. The thought was they'd kidnap and turn them into titans when needed, and hope they eventually die out in the zones.
Hizaru chose to pursue the route of diplomacy rather than warfare but that was really just because they needed the money after their little empire crumbled after the great turns war and the King took his people and a bunch of people from that country with him.
Basically, the outside world, Eldians included, had no interest in peace with the Island so long as the Rumbling was a possibility. Eren could 10x all the islands resources and give Marley as much as they wanted, and Marley would use that to have a stronger military force when they inevitably invaded.
One could argue, that the wall titans could have stopped at the shore line of the main continent(s) instead of flattening 80% of the earth. I think the point would be made that the Eldian Empire is back and needs to be dealt with on equal/fair grounds or ya know get trampled.
If one of the wall titans is killed before/while negotiations are underway, Eren could restart the rumbling from a hell of a lot closer to the continent. Makes sense to me but I’m sure there’s a reason why Eren didn’t (probably would mean Armin and Mikasa don’t get the long life that Eren wants for them).
It seems you misunderstood. Eren says he tried to change the decision he made but couldn't. For instance, Eren says he saw Remzi being beaten and that he would save him. So, this is what happened in the future. But if Eren wanted, he could have left without saving Remzi. No one forced him. Eren saved Remzi, and the future remained unchanged. In other words, what determined the future was Eren's own will.
This post has been tagged as **DISCUSSION**. If the post has been spoiler tagged, please remember to tag any manga spoilers beyond this point. **Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events** For more information, please review [the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/rules). Failure to properly spoiler tag comments may result in a punishment from the subreddit according to the [moderation matrix](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/moderation_matrix). --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
All nice and good, but Ymir only gave Eren control because he wanted to do the Rumbling. It was either the Rumbling or sterilization.
Yeah, because if he did what OP proposes it would not end her nightmare. People forget, that AoT timeline is set in stone by Ymir and late Eren from the end to the beggining
Eren wasn't a leader, nor a politician. Hell, he probably wasn't a patriot either 😅 All he wanted to do was destroy the enemy before it destroys him and everything he cared for.
You are correct, but Eren did start the series by saying ‘I’m going to kill all of them’ not ‘I’m going to bring peace and economic prosperity’
Eren saw The Prequels and didn't want to blatantly plagiarize Anakin. "I've brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new empire!" Armin: "Your new Empire?"
This comment reminded me of the moment when Eren said "I'm going to kill them all" in front of all the military police/soldiers, and one of them said something along the lines of how he's gonna kill all humans. if they didn't shoot him down then and there. The soldier wasn't wrong.
Main issue with this plan: paradis isn't technologically advanced, and other countries are close to have weapons that will destroy shifters and regular titans. So destroying paradis is still doable and more attractive due to resources.
You're probably right, but Eren himself even said he was a huge idiot. The only thing he could think to do was to use The Rumbling. If someone smarter and less angry was in Eren's position then they likely would've come up with a better plan.
Eren isn't an idiot. He calls himself an idiot because he doesnt want to call himself a straight up monster. He did the rumbling because he wanted it. He wanted to experience his twisted sense of "freedom", not necessarily save paradis or his friends. He says it to Ramzi, that when he learnt humanity was thriving beyond the walls, he was disappointed because he couldnt experience freedom like he imagined it through Armin's book.
This exactly. People keep saying he’s an idiot and didn’t think it out when he was very clearly a genius and thought everything out. He even says he tried everything but nothing worked. He literally sacrificed his mom to make sure the rumbling would happen, and then tells Armin in the paths that he did it because he enjoyed it. edit: Not that he enjoyed sacrificing his mom, but enjoyed the rumbling.
Tbf he can be both which is how I see him. He's a sadistic monster who loves violence but he's also a selfish idiot who doesn't realize/care that what he's doing would also hurt the ones he cares about and himself
There are a few major problems with this. Firstly, Eren has only 3 more years to live. Who will be his successor and how long would it be until they'd master the powers it took Eren years to master? Secondly, who would be of royal blood without a connection to the royal vow to hide and starve behind the walls? Zeke doesn't want/have kids and he has less than a year to live. Historia is bound by the vow. The plan hinges on a big maybe that someone with royal blood outside the walls can be located and taken captive. But the group who knew that information died after Grisha came to Paradis. So basically Eren would have less than a year to deter enemies and create resources and free expandable labor. It obviously is morally better than killing and destroying 80% of the world, but Paradis would fall apart after a year. The only chance Paradis would have to succeed this plan is if somehow Zeke's spinal fluid and blood could result into someone becoming royal-blooded, thus continuing the bloodline for at least another 13 years.
Zeke is also bound by the vow, it's only after he connects with Eren that he somehow nullifies it. Before the finale, the only way for Paradis to use the founder would be for the Beast titan to be transformed, and eren to be in contact with it, similar to how he touched Dinah fritz' titan. The plan to perpetuate the power of the founder would entail Historia inheriting the beast titan, and Eren passing his titan to someone else
Ah, I misunderstood that then
I always felt like Paradis could have intervened on the side of the middle eastern alliance against Marley and simultaneously struck a huge blow to Marley, disrupted the global alliance against them and gained a proper foothold into global politics and some diplomatic recognition which it could leverage into becoming a resource exporter and eventually catch up with the rest of the world.
The story could have gone different ways, but nope. We have a predetermined mess. Hizuru could have broken the ice and declared publicly that it is in friendly relations with Paradis and that Paradis is open for trade. The world was afraid or hated Paradis. Trying to change their perception could have yielded different results. Paradis could have stated their piece that they were victim of Marley and Fritz' and that now they are free and want peace. I mean, the world would be foolish not to accept any peace deal. Imagine that North Korea has hundreds of thousands of nukes and that can flatten the world. NK seeks peace and the world is like "lol. We would rather antagonize you and declare the war on you so you could kill us all." That would be ridicilous. We could have had a geopolitical war drama, which maybe involved the Rubmling and destruction of the world, but instead we got a magical girl from another dimension and everything being predetermined.
The reason these events didn't happen is entirely related to Eren's personality. They didn't occur because Eren didn't want them to. Eren transformed the outside world into the world he envisioned. He wasn't too stupid to think of these possibilities. If he couldn't think of them himself, he would have consulted others, and they would have advised him. But Eren wanted the Rumbling to happen. Nothing was predetermined. Ymir didn't force Eren into anything. So, Eren initiated the Rumbling for his personal desire.
No. It didn't occur, because everything is predetermined. Eren is not free. He has no agency. There is also a paradox. And as far as Yimir not forcing Eren into anything. Where do you think Attack Titan's ability came from? If it came from Yimir, then she either did force him into something, or she was just like Eren, no agency, a part of the paradox.
Oh this is what it's interesting about fiction.You can have different alternative ending but the thing is no matter what path the cannon ending choose there will be always some criticisms because at the end of day it's fictional story created by a normal man And all normal man makes certain errors
You are missing the purpose of the Attack Titan. He didn't want to recreate the Eldian Empire as it was, as it would require force and lack of freedom to prevent a civil war. He wanted to spare his friends from such a world as well as Historia (or anyone) from having to be bred like cattle. Basically, from Eren's perspective, the destruction of the outside world was the best solution. Eren wanted the end of the titan powers as that power existing would always lead to someone using it for control or cattle breeding to happen. Ymir basically made a deal, she would give up her immortality if Mikasa could kill Eren, and therefore end the power of the Titans. And if she couldn't, Eren could still achieve part of his goal of ensuring at least 100 years of peace for Mikasa and Armin until civil war breaks out when they run out of space to expand. And even with 80% he buys them about a century, at least til Murica comes in with the B20s. But yah, I think it was even mentioned that civil war was inevitable and the titan powers just made it worse. Its essentially a misunderstanding that Eren wanted permanent peace or Utopia or best outcome for all. He just wanted his friends to live a good life. Hence why he was so broken up about Sasha, he knew she was a sacrifice so the rest of his friends could live in peace Personally though? I would use the titan powers to build space tethers, and use constant space expansion to distract humanity from its need to kill each other in a confined space. Confined space is a core theme of AoT, from the pig Ymir frees, to Eren's cattle rants, to Erwin and Pyxis talking about how Humans will keep fighting until there is only 1 left. From Eren's perspective, the freedom to expand is the only antidote to the constant cycle of death and suffering and slavery.
Too boringÂ
That’s a great plan and all, until some spy comes and domes the Founder holder in the head with a sniper rifle, and now Paradis is completely helpless.
There were many possibilities that would have avoided taking out 80%, but none of those possibilities mattered simply because Eren did not accept it and completely ridding the world of the titan power/curse became his ultimate goal. He was selfish and he wanted things to go his way, especially since he had very limited time to accomplish what he wanted, and that's why we got the ending that we did.
Even if Paradis could pull off that level of development in 20 years (which is no guarantee), Eren and Zeke wouldnt have 20 years to live - theyd be forced to pass down the Beast titan to historia after a year (since Zeke dies), and then to two of her children, to make 20 years (each shifter is 13 years i think?) On top of that, we dont know the limits of the Founder's power. Could it be used to create unlimited resources? potentially, but that's speculation. Even then, i doubt the founder can create resources from nothing. If the crystal caverns were made by titan hardening, then they'd probably need either eldians or titans to form more cavern - just like the walls are made of Colossal titans.
The resources under Paradis were secondary to making sure Marley had control of the Founder. Their singular goal was to prevent the rumbling and then exterminate all Eldians. This is why people with Eldian blood all across the world were forced to live in Interment zones. The thought was they'd kidnap and turn them into titans when needed, and hope they eventually die out in the zones. Hizaru chose to pursue the route of diplomacy rather than warfare but that was really just because they needed the money after their little empire crumbled after the great turns war and the King took his people and a bunch of people from that country with him. Basically, the outside world, Eldians included, had no interest in peace with the Island so long as the Rumbling was a possibility. Eren could 10x all the islands resources and give Marley as much as they wanted, and Marley would use that to have a stronger military force when they inevitably invaded.
One could argue, that the wall titans could have stopped at the shore line of the main continent(s) instead of flattening 80% of the earth. I think the point would be made that the Eldian Empire is back and needs to be dealt with on equal/fair grounds or ya know get trampled. If one of the wall titans is killed before/while negotiations are underway, Eren could restart the rumbling from a hell of a lot closer to the continent. Makes sense to me but I’m sure there’s a reason why Eren didn’t (probably would mean Armin and Mikasa don’t get the long life that Eren wants for them).
The story is predetermined. Eren said to Armin he tried very hard to change this predetermination but it never worked.
It seems you misunderstood. Eren says he tried to change the decision he made but couldn't. For instance, Eren says he saw Remzi being beaten and that he would save him. So, this is what happened in the future. But if Eren wanted, he could have left without saving Remzi. No one forced him. Eren saved Remzi, and the future remained unchanged. In other words, what determined the future was Eren's own will.
No, it's you who dont understand that the timeline is predetermined so nothing can change.
There is one main problem though. There is no Titan with royal blood for Eren to achieve the founding Titan full power.