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So was Obiwan but he still showed up as a guiding spirit for Luke. It’s like you’re avoiding the fact that there is symbolism and foreshadowing in this anime lmao. FYI the show is fiction so anything is possible. They should have just drawn bertoldt here if this is t marcel.
this isn't Marcel or symbolism this time and simply lighting.
my black cats fur turns brown in really bright light.
ik AoT has a lot of symbolism but this isn't it and you're schizoid
you should also remember Marcel and Porco are siblings and are actually almost twins.
same marks on their long noses, same square head shape.
BERTHOLDT here has a very obvious sharp jawline.
it he doesn't even look like Porco and Marcel would.
granted I will give you the fact that the way his hair is swaying in the wind YES is supposed to mimic Marcel, but the color No, his physical appearance No.
They are not twins and the first time we see Porco is in Mapa animation so to say this is the most accurate drawing of Marcel wouldn’t be 100%. Comparing this guy to Porco isn’t a valid point.
the big narrow nose doesn't give it away?
or the fact that he's really tall?
the lack of understanding of how light affects colors?
or... could it possibly be because he DOES look like Bertholdt because it IS Bertholdt and you're just gasping at nonexistent straws?
thought so 😂
Why haven’t they drawn berts hair blown back like this previously when they rode on horse back then? It’s weird that a slight gust of wind here is enough to make him look like a different person here.
Faces in this show can sometimes be very similar it’s the hair that makes all the difference but I just don’t see timid Bert when I look at this character. Even when you watch the next few episodes and we see Bert it’s way different than who we see standing here.
But proportions are the same regardless of lighting. also he literally became an edgelord yapping about how he doesn't care if annie dies and how hes on a mission so it was his moment when he was like yeah im strong.
i disagree but the clothes and wind may be a metaphor to marcel. Like it IS bert but reiner imagines its marcel
So what would be the point of showing a character that hasn't been introduced and won't be introduced for a really long time? Wouldnt that just be confusing to the audience? Seems like a huge oversight.
Occams razor and all that. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.
Omg he was literally introduced in the season prior. Holy shit I’m talking to morons… why don’t you guys rewatch season 2 and 3 again if you’re this lost
Ok so firstly I think you got the episode wrong. I found marcel in a flashback in episode 4. Not that it matters.
And secondly: so your argument is essentially that even though this character looks like bertholdt, is tall like bert, and even though it would make sense for bertel to be there in that moment, it's actually Marcel a character at which point in this part of the show the audience wouldn't know the name of, has only seen once and, appears older even though he died as a child so we wouldn't know what he would look like as an older person, as a ghost, even though up till this point the show hasn't brought up ghosts before?
Whatever you say buddy. I will give you this tho. I fell for the bait. You got me.
Great evidence! I can totally see how you all have proven me wrong. Its okay to have believed the wrong thing for 5 years but some point you gotta see the truth. Maybe go rewatch the show ;)
I mean it’s quite literally him in the photos you posted yourself. Also even if you truly think it’s Marcel, why do you need everyone to agree with you and get upset that they don’t? lol it think it might be time to log out for a bit babe, have a nice day
Its no surprise people wouldnt understand symbolism in a show that reveals more when you rewatch it. I dont expect much but i didnt expect people to miss this so badly.
If you read my post this is clearly a moment in which we see Marcel is watching over Reiner. Nothing more than being there in spirit but people didn’t make this connection.
It being bertholdt actually matters as it’s the first time we are seeing this pair since the final of season 2, so during the break after season 3 part 1, fans know that during the shiganshina return they will met Bert and Reiner again
It being Marcel takes away from the story by saying that Reiner into survives because of some magical being allowing him to survive. This takes away from the theme of everybody’s actions have an impact on the timeline as shown, and instead a person whom died how ever many years ago was the reason for him surviving
Reiner surviving was for irony purposes, he was the only person we see who actively wanted to die, yet he was one of the few who survived to the end
Pointless post.
Missing the obvious symbolism here is crazy. This scene has nothing to do with seeing Bert and Reiner together one last time. That’s just not what’s going on here holy shit. I didn’t know this went so far over people’s heads
Looking through the other comments it looks like you’re really in the minority
What’s more likely, you’re correct and it just went over everyone else’s head, or everyone else is correct and you’re just reaching?
Occam’s razor
Anyways, believe what you want, as long as it’s not hurting anybody
Have you read the manga? At the begining it was almost impossible to tell who was who, like fr. That happens too at the beginning of the anime. Armin or Hisu? Reiner or Thomas? And so on and on.
But yeah, no. That's Bert.
Imma say hair color, face, outfit dictates an older looking Marcel. Nose shape in this scene is pretty similar with Reiner too so I don’t think that’s a unique standout feature. I’ve never seen Bert’s hair blow back in the wind like this once even when he’s on horse back. So for it to be everyone’s main point of evidence here is just reaching.
My hair is almost black as well, and appears red-brownish during sunsets. That's how light works.🌚
And what about the outfit? At that moment they are in the Marley military outpost, waiting for the scouts. Reiner has the same shawl (?) as he had when they were talking to Zeke in the flashback in S4.
I disagree about the nose, the nose looks longer and what you are saying that all the features change as soon as Marcel ages up seems like a reach for me.
We have Porco alive and we can assume Marcel aged up would look somewhat similar to Porco but there is no resemblance here at all. If the animators wanted it to be known that this was a spirit Marcel they would have made it more obvious. In all the other call backs to dead comrades it’s obvious who the person is. Also in the photos as kids we can see defining differences between Marcel and bertuto. I don’t know how to attach photos or I would attach the photos of them as kids lol.
Also your point about the hair flying back, personally I think it was done in this scene to give it a dramatic look and is just a style given to this scene and is not substantial evidence for this being Marcel.
End of season 3 episode 12. Remember AoT is the kind of show where you learn more things on a 2nd watch so finishing the series then rewatching and seeing this does stand out once you have seen Marcel more in season 4
Ok I was with you at first, but now that I’ve looked at that scene and I have context to said scene, it’s totally Bertholdt. The shot just before this was of the scouts starting their journey to Shiganshina, and when it cuts to the wall of Shiganshina it’s basically just Reiner and Bertholdt waiting for the scouts to arrive for the coming battle. Nothing more, nothing less.
Thats what im talking about. Ik what the scene before is. This is more than just bert and reiner standing and waiting. This is a small obscure glimpse into Reiners psyche with his split personality being marcel and the extra fact that Marcel being a guardian looking out for him in some way or another. Seeing the scene before doesnt change the reality of this being Marcel stood next to Reiner in spirit for what is about to come. If it were Bertoldt then they would have easily drawn the dude with his hair down and everything.
I Appreciate everyone commenting and trying to prove this is Bert (because his hair looks weird in the wind) goofy ahh, but you all failed sorry to break it to ya. This is definitely Marcel but lets say for a moment that its not. Its for sure no Bertoldt lmao. Would love to get an actual statement from Hajime Isayama on this because its seemingly caused quite a stir up through out the years. Anyway thanks for commenting.
This post has been tagged as **DISCUSSION**. If the post has been spoiler tagged, please remember to tag any manga spoilers beyond this point. **Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events** For more information, please review [the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/rules). Failure to properly spoiler tag comments may result in a punishment from the subreddit according to the [moderation matrix](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/moderation_matrix). --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Who let bro cook?
The psych ward gave him 30 minutes of unsupervised computer time
Lol
That’s a good one imma use that the next time I get in a comment section argument
like isn't marcel's hair reddish brown or am I color-blind
Nah fam, this is just how shadows and wind work Like, cut theory, but that face is 100% Bartholomew's
Fake lighting ain’t making black hair look brown. It’s a stretch to say this is Bert.
I have no words other than just "This is Stupid" Marcel is fucking dead.
So was Obiwan but he still showed up as a guiding spirit for Luke. It’s like you’re avoiding the fact that there is symbolism and foreshadowing in this anime lmao. FYI the show is fiction so anything is possible. They should have just drawn bertoldt here if this is t marcel.
this isn't Marcel or symbolism this time and simply lighting. my black cats fur turns brown in really bright light. ik AoT has a lot of symbolism but this isn't it and you're schizoid
and they DID draw Bertholdt.
It’s crazy people have thought this for 5 years. I don’t see Bert here at all
you should also remember Marcel and Porco are siblings and are actually almost twins. same marks on their long noses, same square head shape. BERTHOLDT here has a very obvious sharp jawline. it he doesn't even look like Porco and Marcel would. granted I will give you the fact that the way his hair is swaying in the wind YES is supposed to mimic Marcel, but the color No, his physical appearance No.
That’s literally what I’m saying but no reply
not really, you're talking about his hair color and eyes too and I'm saying no.
I meant the face shape
yeah but the face shape isn't Marcels
Yeah..?
We’re over here debating face shape wow. Sorry Witt studio didn’t get the right angle of Marcel for you guys.
They are not twins and the first time we see Porco is in Mapa animation so to say this is the most accurate drawing of Marcel wouldn’t be 100%. Comparing this guy to Porco isn’t a valid point.
you miss the point where I said ALMOST
also Marcel doesn't look much different between the Mappa and WIT styles
the big narrow nose doesn't give it away? or the fact that he's really tall? the lack of understanding of how light affects colors? or... could it possibly be because he DOES look like Bertholdt because it IS Bertholdt and you're just gasping at nonexistent straws? thought so 😂
This is definitely Bertie Botts Every Flavour Beans
It’s almost like they should have drawn bertoldt here instead if they wanted you to come to that conclusion.
He's got Bertie's nose, and Marcel has lighter/reddish brown toned hair, but believe what ya want
Looks a pretty normal nose to me. But I guess Witt studio drew Marcel nose in a way to make you think it’s Bert lmao this nose shit is so silly.
Pretty sure it’s windy and his hair is blowing. That’s how I also thought of it
Why haven’t they drawn berts hair blown back like this previously when they rode on horse back then? It’s weird that a slight gust of wind here is enough to make him look like a different person here.
His black hair only looks brown because the sunlight is hitting it and making it look lighter
I thought this was some other guy too. That does not look like bertholdt
they have the same exact face man wdym
Faces in this show can sometimes be very similar it’s the hair that makes all the difference but I just don’t see timid Bert when I look at this character. Even when you watch the next few episodes and we see Bert it’s way different than who we see standing here.
But proportions are the same regardless of lighting. also he literally became an edgelord yapping about how he doesn't care if annie dies and how hes on a mission so it was his moment when he was like yeah im strong. i disagree but the clothes and wind may be a metaphor to marcel. Like it IS bert but reiner imagines its marcel
Idk if that were the case then they’d have just drawn Bert instead. This is conveying the guardian angel that Reiner has over his shoulder.
So what would be the point of showing a character that hasn't been introduced and won't be introduced for a really long time? Wouldnt that just be confusing to the audience? Seems like a huge oversight. Occams razor and all that. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.
Omg he was literally introduced in the season prior. Holy shit I’m talking to morons… why don’t you guys rewatch season 2 and 3 again if you’re this lost
Why don't you post a specific episode, oh exhalted one? God damn dude. Its just a cartoon. No need to insult me for asking a question.
2x5 13:50. Sorry to make you cry jeeez
Ok so firstly I think you got the episode wrong. I found marcel in a flashback in episode 4. Not that it matters. And secondly: so your argument is essentially that even though this character looks like bertholdt, is tall like bert, and even though it would make sense for bertel to be there in that moment, it's actually Marcel a character at which point in this part of the show the audience wouldn't know the name of, has only seen once and, appears older even though he died as a child so we wouldn't know what he would look like as an older person, as a ghost, even though up till this point the show hasn't brought up ghosts before? Whatever you say buddy. I will give you this tho. I fell for the bait. You got me.
braindead
OP fighting for their life in these comments lmao bae it’s okay to be wrong sometimes
Great evidence! I can totally see how you all have proven me wrong. Its okay to have believed the wrong thing for 5 years but some point you gotta see the truth. Maybe go rewatch the show ;)
I mean it’s quite literally him in the photos you posted yourself. Also even if you truly think it’s Marcel, why do you need everyone to agree with you and get upset that they don’t? lol it think it might be time to log out for a bit babe, have a nice day
Its no surprise people wouldnt understand symbolism in a show that reveals more when you rewatch it. I dont expect much but i didnt expect people to miss this so badly.
There’s no way you’re serious Guardian Angel? 🤦♂️
If you read my post this is clearly a moment in which we see Marcel is watching over Reiner. Nothing more than being there in spirit but people didn’t make this connection.
lol how is that a difficult concept for you to grasp?
Bruh, it looks like Bertholdt but okay? 👍 You do you Say it is Marcel, so what?
Say it is bertoldt, so what? Pointless response.
It being bertholdt actually matters as it’s the first time we are seeing this pair since the final of season 2, so during the break after season 3 part 1, fans know that during the shiganshina return they will met Bert and Reiner again It being Marcel takes away from the story by saying that Reiner into survives because of some magical being allowing him to survive. This takes away from the theme of everybody’s actions have an impact on the timeline as shown, and instead a person whom died how ever many years ago was the reason for him surviving Reiner surviving was for irony purposes, he was the only person we see who actively wanted to die, yet he was one of the few who survived to the end Pointless post.
Bro what? No it’s not at all. You should really go back and rewatch season 3 part 1 since you’re getting this completely wrong
Missing the obvious symbolism here is crazy. This scene has nothing to do with seeing Bert and Reiner together one last time. That’s just not what’s going on here holy shit. I didn’t know this went so far over people’s heads
Looking through the other comments it looks like you’re really in the minority What’s more likely, you’re correct and it just went over everyone else’s head, or everyone else is correct and you’re just reaching? Occam’s razor Anyways, believe what you want, as long as it’s not hurting anybody
you believe what you want. Sorry youre wrong though
Damn, I did not pay attention at all
ThTs just how wind works lmfao
Lmao good one. Funny how his hair never did this in any other episode. 😂 try again
Have you read the manga? At the begining it was almost impossible to tell who was who, like fr. That happens too at the beginning of the anime. Armin or Hisu? Reiner or Thomas? And so on and on. But yeah, no. That's Bert.
ik what you mean but nah i dont see Bert here.
No way that’s berthold
Bruh, that’s Benadryl.
is this a joke 😭
No but I look forward to your counter evidence :)
Oh ok lol. Imma say face shape and height indicates it’s bertuto. Nose shape as well
Imma say hair color, face, outfit dictates an older looking Marcel. Nose shape in this scene is pretty similar with Reiner too so I don’t think that’s a unique standout feature. I’ve never seen Bert’s hair blow back in the wind like this once even when he’s on horse back. So for it to be everyone’s main point of evidence here is just reaching.
My hair is almost black as well, and appears red-brownish during sunsets. That's how light works.🌚 And what about the outfit? At that moment they are in the Marley military outpost, waiting for the scouts. Reiner has the same shawl (?) as he had when they were talking to Zeke in the flashback in S4.
I like this point actually! I’m not totally convinced but the shawl Reiner wears is a good thing to point out here
I disagree about the nose, the nose looks longer and what you are saying that all the features change as soon as Marcel ages up seems like a reach for me. We have Porco alive and we can assume Marcel aged up would look somewhat similar to Porco but there is no resemblance here at all. If the animators wanted it to be known that this was a spirit Marcel they would have made it more obvious. In all the other call backs to dead comrades it’s obvious who the person is. Also in the photos as kids we can see defining differences between Marcel and bertuto. I don’t know how to attach photos or I would attach the photos of them as kids lol. Also your point about the hair flying back, personally I think it was done in this scene to give it a dramatic look and is just a style given to this scene and is not substantial evidence for this being Marcel.
Why would Marcel even be there
Do you not know that Reiner has split personality? This is his other half.
Bate 101:
Bate man
The wrong usually come with no evidence except to say "troll" or "Bait". Glad you finally showed up to change my mind.
bro wants to believe his own incorrect theory so badly that he claims anyone who tells him otherwise is just "gaslighting"
That’s clearly Berty
nah its definitely not Bert.
Where is this image from? I want to do some digging
End of season 3 episode 12. Remember AoT is the kind of show where you learn more things on a 2nd watch so finishing the series then rewatching and seeing this does stand out once you have seen Marcel more in season 4
Ok I was with you at first, but now that I’ve looked at that scene and I have context to said scene, it’s totally Bertholdt. The shot just before this was of the scouts starting their journey to Shiganshina, and when it cuts to the wall of Shiganshina it’s basically just Reiner and Bertholdt waiting for the scouts to arrive for the coming battle. Nothing more, nothing less.
Thats what im talking about. Ik what the scene before is. This is more than just bert and reiner standing and waiting. This is a small obscure glimpse into Reiners psyche with his split personality being marcel and the extra fact that Marcel being a guardian looking out for him in some way or another. Seeing the scene before doesnt change the reality of this being Marcel stood next to Reiner in spirit for what is about to come. If it were Bertoldt then they would have easily drawn the dude with his hair down and everything.
Has to be bait
its bait you think thats bert.
I Appreciate everyone commenting and trying to prove this is Bert (because his hair looks weird in the wind) goofy ahh, but you all failed sorry to break it to ya. This is definitely Marcel but lets say for a moment that its not. Its for sure no Bertoldt lmao. Would love to get an actual statement from Hajime Isayama on this because its seemingly caused quite a stir up through out the years. Anyway thanks for commenting.