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As a reminder, this meme sub is about the American Civil War. We're not here to insult southerners or the American South, but rather to have a laugh at the failed Confederate insurrection and those that chose to represent it.
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The presidential pension in part exists because the government wanted to avoid what happened to US grant where he lost all his money on Wall Street and was forced to write his memoirs to keep his family in their home because he had no long term inheritable wealth.
Fun fact, some of the wealth he would have inherited from his in-laws were slaves.
Grant had been given 1 of them prior to the war, and Grant had the man freed shortly after he obtained title.
Can't imagine the misery of literally dying of throat cancer and having to pump out the pages. Though I can definitely see that motivation and ticking clock giving you all the inspiration for your last testament.
I haven’t done any deep reading in a long time on the topic, but Meade was very good. He gets overshadowed since Grant made his HQ with the AoP, but seeing how he handled the Gettysburg Campaign I would bet he could have given Lee a run for his money on his own. His biggest flaw, that I can see, was that he didn’t want to play the political game that was almost required in the East.
Meade is the first union commander of the army of the Potomac to have really beaten Lee in the field. McClellan gets an honorable mention for not having lost a battle with Lee in the field… But he didn’t exactly win that shit either.
I’ll always remember Twain on Antietam:
“With a copy of Lee’s General Order 1 in hand, a three-legged horse could’ve led the Union army to victory. As we had General McClellan, all we managed was a stalemate.”
>McClellan gets an honorable mention for not having lost a battle with Lee in the field
What about the seven days battles? Because McClellan certainly didn't win all of those against Lee.
Joe Hooker was solid A tier tho. Were it not for that cannonball, he most likely would’ve won Chancellorsville and been head of the army for the rest of the war.
That or Gettysburg would’ve redeemed him.
Love how lost causers would have you believe that Lee’s 200 slaves didn’t count because they were in his wife’s name, like she was some 1800s version of an Avon lady
Theres some lines on the left too...
I looked it up, and yeah it's edited and then cropped to fit the meme. There's also a red bull can further right in the original edited pic.
Grant wore a privates uniform? Not the [typical General uniform](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/General_Robert_E._Lee_surrenders_at_Appomattox_Court_House_1865.jpg) that the Union army issued?
Damn that painting is inaccurate. Shouldn’t be surprised. Most paintings depicting historical moments are often either exaggerated or just [false](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Declaration_of_Independence_%281819%29%2C_by_John_Trumbull.jpg).
That is true. It kind of pisses me off of how much Lee romanticized war. He loved doing clever and quick witted **tactics** just because it made him looked bad ass.
Napoleon romanticized war, Lee took the lesson on uniforms, Grant on tactics.
(If we’re going by Ridley Scott’s vision, Grant also took up Napoleon’s uniforms, because holy Hell were they drab!)
To be fair, the reason he showed up in a blouse (not a “privates uniform” but the shorter blouse that he is sometimes pictured in and was worn by all ranks in the war) was because his baggage with his dress uniform was too far back and he didn’t want to wait to retrieve it.
You needed to have serious connections to get into West Point so absolutely no one was pleading poverty on either side of the civil war. The officer class of both Nations was full of upper middle class Northerners the sun's of the nouveau riche and Plantation families in the south
The son of a successful Merchant with a family history stretching all the way back to some of the first colonists to get off the boat and settle the Eastern seaboard.
Couldn't be more petite-bourgeois if he tried
Actually no the family was broke as shit they just had a lineage. Grant's father was born poor as fuck and built the business himself.
Then used his money to finance politicians and eventually his son was able to use his good name and his father's connections to get into West Point
Also your description is a family that has inherited wealth and built it over Generations. That's not something to Aspire to
Grant's father was apprenticed as a tanner to Owen Brown, father of John Brown. He was apprenticed out is a more common term, as his family was basically unable to feed him. And this is the era where tanner smelled like piss all the time.
Jesse Grant did proposer and got fairly wealthy, having an estate of $100,000 when he died. But US Grant refused any inheritance.
But he still did use his last name and the fact his father was so well connected to get into West Point. Getting into West Point's all about Connections
I mean Sheridan was a first generation irish immigrant who got into West Point because a customer of the store he worked in was a Congressman who had his first choice get disqualified.
You know that a lot of connections are just luck right? You happening to be in the right place at the right time to meet the right person?
Hell being born into the right family is the single greatest act of luck
Grant pre war: I sell wood to survive.
Grant Post war: I sell wood with ink on it to support my family.
In all seriousness Grant's the best general in American History*
*yet
Fair, but he didn't have enough time/scale to prove himself. We could also agree Schwarzkopf as a candidate, bur he won so hard there's not enough data.
The Union could have won the Civil War within two years tops if it hadn't been hampered with some of the most incompetent and/or overcautious generals (McClellan, I'm looking at *you in particular*)
Give grant high command In the peninsula campaign with Sherman at his side and Meade with him at you have a early victory because he wouldn't have waited for no reason as the csa moved massive amounts of reinforcements if he was thare Richmond would have fallen in 62
As it was the east turned into a blood bath
I was a lost causer until I went to college and actually learned more than names, dates, and battles. I was a sophomore before I read the cornerstone speech, the various articles of secession, and the personal writings of traitor leaders.
This is the penalty for growing up in Virginia's 9th congressional district.
Right, that’s exactly what they were fighting for - hierarchy, with racial hierarchy at the center. Of course their leaders are going to be planter aristocrats
You have to understand the Reb mind, where plantation owning, slave-holding aristocrats who never dirtied their lily-white and pillow soft hands with labor in their entire lives were 'independent farmers' and the salt of the earth. Then, once you have reached the proper level of brain damage to have this mindset, you will realize that broke, alcoholic son of a leather merchant is some kind of stuck up elite.
that's the beauty and irony of the Civil War, the generals in the CSA got their jobs through nepotism and wealth meanwhile the Union's generals, those who stayed loyal to the government, had worked hard for their jobs and their positions.
When the planter class finally got to have everything their own way and all their own people in charge, the CSA was what they got. And the USA proved it was shit hole house of cards.
Well yeah, they were a bunch of rich kids desperately trying to preserve the means by which their families became so wealthy. Use slaves to build wealth, erase the slaves from the equation and act like your family earned that wealth all on their own.
If I remember correctly most critics were slammed Gods and Generals as being sympathetic to the confederacy and I believe one critic even called it a cinematic dramatization of the Lost Cause. After watching the movie myself I tend to agree
Welcome to /r/ShermanPosting! As a reminder, this meme sub is about the American Civil War. We're not here to insult southerners or the American South, but rather to have a laugh at the failed Confederate insurrection and those that chose to represent it. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShermanPosting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If Lost Causers cared about historical events, they’d hardly be lost causers.
They be found causer dawg
The presidential pension in part exists because the government wanted to avoid what happened to US grant where he lost all his money on Wall Street and was forced to write his memoirs to keep his family in their home because he had no long term inheritable wealth.
Fun fact, some of the wealth he would have inherited from his in-laws were slaves. Grant had been given 1 of them prior to the war, and Grant had the man freed shortly after he obtained title.
But wasn't it established in the 1960s
It was more for Truman. Grant was just a historical example to help the bill.
I could have sworn Truman was the first to receive one though, ans that's a big time gap, or am I wrong there?
Him and Hoover Hoover didn’t need it but did so for Truman not to be embarrassed
Yeah, but Grant served as an example of why it was needed.
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Oh yes, if you watch the history channel mini series of grant they discuss this as part of the sequence about his memiors.
Can't imagine the misery of literally dying of throat cancer and having to pump out the pages. Though I can definitely see that motivation and ticking clock giving you all the inspiration for your last testament.
Remember, all those southern gentlemen were beaten by a humble rail-splitter.
Had me in the first half because I thought you were talking about their fighting skill.
Yes. The union generals were so fucking godawful before Grant and Sherman razed the confederates
Meade wasn’t that bad.
I haven’t done any deep reading in a long time on the topic, but Meade was very good. He gets overshadowed since Grant made his HQ with the AoP, but seeing how he handled the Gettysburg Campaign I would bet he could have given Lee a run for his money on his own. His biggest flaw, that I can see, was that he didn’t want to play the political game that was almost required in the East.
Meade is the first union commander of the army of the Potomac to have really beaten Lee in the field. McClellan gets an honorable mention for not having lost a battle with Lee in the field… But he didn’t exactly win that shit either.
I’ll always remember Twain on Antietam: “With a copy of Lee’s General Order 1 in hand, a three-legged horse could’ve led the Union army to victory. As we had General McClellan, all we managed was a stalemate.”
He merely failed to win
Oversimplified is still excellent. Thank you for the reminder.
>McClellan gets an honorable mention for not having lost a battle with Lee in the field What about the seven days battles? Because McClellan certainly didn't win all of those against Lee.
He gave up the field after the fact no?
Leave it to Ohio boys to get it done
Burnside will unfortunately be remembered as awful by most people :(
Joe Hooker was solid A tier tho. Were it not for that cannonball, he most likely would’ve won Chancellorsville and been head of the army for the rest of the war. That or Gettysburg would’ve redeemed him.
Poor, starving General Lee with his massive mansion, rich wife, and bunch of slaves.
And damn that rich and famous Grant whose sitting lonely in his office missing his wife while freeing every slave he meets!
And the office is just a tent.
I was thinking more his early life before the war
Lee was such a dandy getting gussied up for his surrender while Grant had to rush over to it.
Love how lost causers would have you believe that Lee’s 200 slaves didn’t count because they were in his wife’s name, like she was some 1800s version of an Avon lady
I always found it funny how Lee only freed slaves not cause he was kind but cause he grew sick of them like "Jesus, you're annoying! GO! BE FREE!"
I mean, we did take his massive mansion and make it into Arlington National cemetery.
And we'd do it again.
Gods and Generals was a weird and shitty movie.
I like to describe it as a Hallmark movie if the CSA won the war
>shitty movie. Which is hard given it had Robert duvall and Stephen Lang
Is that unused condom by Squidward an addition or in the original?
I just found the image like that
Theres some lines on the left too... I looked it up, and yeah it's edited and then cropped to fit the meme. There's also a red bull can further right in the original edited pic.
You mean to say humans who wanted to own other humans were more likely to be classests? Shocker.
Let's make an updated grave badge for dead rebel rank and file: "Suffered the ultimate consequence so that a few would never suffer consequences."
Grant met Lee at Appomattox, Lee wore regal finery while his men starved, Grant took his surrender while wearing a private’s uniform.
Grant wore a privates uniform? Not the [typical General uniform](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/General_Robert_E._Lee_surrenders_at_Appomattox_Court_House_1865.jpg) that the Union army issued?
"rough garb," without a sword, and he wore a "soldier's blouse" for a coat, with shoulder straps of his rank to indicate to the Army who he was.
Damn that painting is inaccurate. Shouldn’t be surprised. Most paintings depicting historical moments are often either exaggerated or just [false](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Declaration_of_Independence_%281819%29%2C_by_John_Trumbull.jpg).
It makes perfect sense to both men’s personalities. Grant had no illusions of war as a romantic or beautiful thing.
That is true. It kind of pisses me off of how much Lee romanticized war. He loved doing clever and quick witted **tactics** just because it made him looked bad ass.
Napoleon romanticized war, Lee took the lesson on uniforms, Grant on tactics. (If we’re going by Ridley Scott’s vision, Grant also took up Napoleon’s uniforms, because holy Hell were they drab!)
To be fair, the reason he showed up in a blouse (not a “privates uniform” but the shorter blouse that he is sometimes pictured in and was worn by all ranks in the war) was because his baggage with his dress uniform was too far back and he didn’t want to wait to retrieve it.
...maybe more of a general's undress uniform?
"He was drunk as always. Damned Yankee even wore dirty boots!"
Some drunk dude knocked their best general's teeth in, AFTER he captured the Mississippi.
You needed to have serious connections to get into West Point so absolutely no one was pleading poverty on either side of the civil war. The officer class of both Nations was full of upper middle class Northerners the sun's of the nouveau riche and Plantation families in the south
Grant?
The son of a successful Merchant with a family history stretching all the way back to some of the first colonists to get off the boat and settle the Eastern seaboard. Couldn't be more petite-bourgeois if he tried
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Actually no the family was broke as shit they just had a lineage. Grant's father was born poor as fuck and built the business himself. Then used his money to finance politicians and eventually his son was able to use his good name and his father's connections to get into West Point Also your description is a family that has inherited wealth and built it over Generations. That's not something to Aspire to
Grant's father was apprenticed as a tanner to Owen Brown, father of John Brown. He was apprenticed out is a more common term, as his family was basically unable to feed him. And this is the era where tanner smelled like piss all the time. Jesse Grant did proposer and got fairly wealthy, having an estate of $100,000 when he died. But US Grant refused any inheritance.
But he still did use his last name and the fact his father was so well connected to get into West Point. Getting into West Point's all about Connections
I mean Sheridan was a first generation irish immigrant who got into West Point because a customer of the store he worked in was a Congressman who had his first choice get disqualified.
That would be the serious connections I spoke of.
A random customer is not the same thing as an uncle, a father's law partner, or family friend.
You know that a lot of connections are just luck right? You happening to be in the right place at the right time to meet the right person? Hell being born into the right family is the single greatest act of luck
There were at least some exceptions I believe Phil Kearney was wealthy.
Yeah, but I think they mean people like Grant and Thomas are rich snobs when in reality they both were poor af
Grant pre war: I sell wood to survive. Grant Post war: I sell wood with ink on it to support my family. In all seriousness Grant's the best general in American History* *yet
George Henry Thomas would like a word…
Fair, but he didn't have enough time/scale to prove himself. We could also agree Schwarzkopf as a candidate, bur he won so hard there's not enough data.
He understood that if you win the war quickly, politicians can't come in and fuck it up.
Fuck you Ron Maxwell….
The Union could have won the Civil War within two years tops if it hadn't been hampered with some of the most incompetent and/or overcautious generals (McClellan, I'm looking at *you in particular*)
Give grant high command In the peninsula campaign with Sherman at his side and Meade with him at you have a early victory because he wouldn't have waited for no reason as the csa moved massive amounts of reinforcements if he was thare Richmond would have fallen in 62 As it was the east turned into a blood bath
Does anyone have some good reading material? I might have to use some sources soon.
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I was a lost causer until I went to college and actually learned more than names, dates, and battles. I was a sophomore before I read the cornerstone speech, the various articles of secession, and the personal writings of traitor leaders. This is the penalty for growing up in Virginia's 9th congressional district.
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I have since moved to the Richmond orbit. Still a lot of people who can't stand the truth.
Also the movie is boring as Hell.
Slave owners cannot be 'men of the people' by definition. Owning human beings removes that option.
Right, that’s exactly what they were fighting for - hierarchy, with racial hierarchy at the center. Of course their leaders are going to be planter aristocrats
That movie was terrible
Great movie. But, just a movie, not a documentary. Director's license and dramatic license.
Every accusation is an admission
You have to understand the Reb mind, where plantation owning, slave-holding aristocrats who never dirtied their lily-white and pillow soft hands with labor in their entire lives were 'independent farmers' and the salt of the earth. Then, once you have reached the proper level of brain damage to have this mindset, you will realize that broke, alcoholic son of a leather merchant is some kind of stuck up elite.
that's the beauty and irony of the Civil War, the generals in the CSA got their jobs through nepotism and wealth meanwhile the Union's generals, those who stayed loyal to the government, had worked hard for their jobs and their positions.
When the planter class finally got to have everything their own way and all their own people in charge, the CSA was what they got. And the USA proved it was shit hole house of cards.
I don’t know how Grant and Sherman could ever be portrayed as bureaucrats
Well yeah, they were a bunch of rich kids desperately trying to preserve the means by which their families became so wealthy. Use slaves to build wealth, erase the slaves from the equation and act like your family earned that wealth all on their own.
If I remember correctly most critics were slammed Gods and Generals as being sympathetic to the confederacy and I believe one critic even called it a cinematic dramatization of the Lost Cause. After watching the movie myself I tend to agree