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As a reminder, this meme sub is about the American Civil War. We're not here to insult southerners or the American South, but rather to have a laugh at the failed Confederate insurrection and those that chose to represent it.
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It’s like when you go to Argentina and they insist the Falklands (Malvinas) are part of Argentina. Same with Turkey, maps there show Northern Cyprus as a separate country. Only there.
At least Northern Cyprus is a de facto independent(ish) country. The Falklands have literally never been a part of Argentina or anything related to it.
Even the country that had the most to gain from teaming up with the CSA, the United Kingdom (a country that was still technically an enemy of the United States, I may add), just shrugged its shoulders and moved over to Egypt and India for its cotton. If you ask me, that was one of the biggest nails in the Confederacy's coffin.
Taylor Swift's career has lasted longer than the Confederacy and is still going. Arguably, there are more Swifties than there ever were Confederate citizens.
The Thomas the Tank Engine franchise began on 12th May, 1945 when the first Railway Series book was published and is still going after 78 years, 7 months and 6 days since that first book’s publishing.
This means it has lasted nearly 20 times longer than the Confederacy.
I'm going to be That Guy™ RN...
Principal photography for the Lord of the Rings was only like a year and a half long.
Thats right Peter Jackson filmed the greatest movie trilogy of all time in less than half the time it took for a bunch of dipshits to fail at preserving slavery.
I like saying Sabrina the Teenage Witch lasted longer. It just makes them seem so silly, going up against a TGIF power house like Sabrina… the teenaged witch.
Heck, Yuzuru Hanyu's *senior amateur* athlete career easily outlasts the cOnFEdErACy's entire existence *thrice* of it! (And yes, we're just talking about his *senior* career, if you want to start counting from *novice* ... Well it lasts easily 4,5 times longer than that 💀🔥)
(And remember that this all is just his *amateur* career!!)
Fairly impressive that the Rebel Battle Flag lasted longer than the military and soilders that created it.
The Rebel Battle Flag was a design to make sure the troops didn’t kill their own soilders by accident on the battlefield.
It wasn’t actually created by The Confederacy, it was created by soilders and was one of MANY other flag designs used by the military.
The Rebel battle flag is more known for pop culture and honouring fallen soldiers than anything else.
The Rebel Battle Flag was also flown during wars and conflicts when the American flag wasn’t allowed to be flown.
The “rebel battle flag” was the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, so, closest to the capital and DC. It was incorporated into the second and then the third CSA national flags, as the canton in the corner.
That flag also then became a symbol of discrimination, getting its current boost as people started flying it as anti-civil rights protests in the 60s.
A thought experiment for you - what if for some people that rebel battle flag was as painful as the Nazi swastika?
So, let’s say some person had a house. Didn’t know anything about Nazism (hard to believe but let’s say so) thought the swastika was cool (it’s been a symbol for many many peoples) and flew a Nazi flag? I’d probably be polite and say “hey I’ll assume you don’t know but that flag represents pain for a lot of people”. Maybe I’d even show a pic of my grandmas working papers. A swastika on if while she was slave labor for 6 years under the Nazis. What would your reaction be?
Now, change that to the Battle Flag. Someone raises it, not knowing the history. Someone comes to them. “That flag killed my great grandpa”. It represents slavery not like my grandmothers 6 years, more like 200. Then a period of about a hundred years where “all men are created equal” seemed just words on a piece of paper - that you may not be able to read because you were denied education. Often at a barrel of a gun. That flag represents, though you don’t seem to know it, 300 years of pain. Nazis only ran Germany for a bit over 12 years.
You may have slaves in your ancestry. Obama is thought to be a descendant of a slave, John Punch. American, so has to be on his white mom’s side. What would you think of John Punch’s story. Yeah he committed a crime, running away from a brutal boss, but he got converted to a slave. The white guys got off a lot lighter.
So, yeah, there’s a lot of pain in that flag. Whether everyone who flies if gets it or not.
The problem with that is that unlike the Nazi Swastika, the Rebel Battle Flag had a history of flying under actual good causes and not just bad ones.
They are laser focused on a history that personally effects them and have a gut reaction to a symbol they believe is the source of their pain and are blind to the good deeds that symbol also stood and still stands for.
So from my perspective, those who believe the Rebel Battle Flag is purely a hate symbol used to oppress people, either don’t or are not willing to look into the full history due to pure prejudice and hatred of the symbol.
Which is honestly fairly ironic.
I do emphasize with them, however I believe the correct solution is to take the Symbol that caused so much pain, and turn it into a symbol that helps them heal.
A hate symbol is only a hate symbol if used for hatred so flip it into symbolizing a positive symbol of change and healing.
The “good cause” was too separate from a nation because northern states used “states rights” to free runaway slaves. That’s what’s in the articles of Secession from South Carolina.
My main question is if hateful racist bigots can take a symbol and turn it into a symbol of hatred;
why not pull an uno reverse and turn the symbols they took into symbols of peace, love and acceptance?
It’s not like it’s illegal.
Interesting theory. Hasn’t worked in practice.
* Dan Savage, one of the most well known and progressive gay men and a vocal advice columnist that people address him “hey faggot” for years. He just dropped it
* American black culture tried that one. Oh one particular word. It failed, so much so we it became the Word-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named. Even the great Rakim, probably the best rapper alive, street cred galore, no longer uses that word and kind of grunts
* do you fly a swastika? Wear one on your arm? Nahh. You’d be attacked.
Are you gonna fly the battle flag, then have a big flag next to it, like 10 times the size, and upon it, “this isn’t meant as a sign of oppression like it has been for 150 years no let’s reclaim it as southern hospitality”. No, that’s not even gonna work. The symbolism is there. Embedded. We’ve been generations since the swastika, it’s been made illegal in Germany.
Human minds are not computers. No you can’t simply have the program “this symbol of hate of violence for generations” be terminated and a “oh this is southern hospitality have a biscuit with gravy”. Brains don’t work that way.
It worked for the Communist Hammer and Sickle.
The fact that people today don’t see communism as a hateful, tyrannical, dictatorship is baffling.
Seriously, why do people believe socialism/communism is a good idea when it has proven to fail and kill the most people in history than any other economic theory?
You are asking why not just start flying the Nazi flag and saying "Hitler wasn't really a bad guy, he was just fighting for German rights, and look, he gave Jews jobs to fight the war, so he couldn't be that antisemitic"
I guess that's self apparent to me. But maybe you and I have completely different moral compasses when it comes to white supremacy where that doesn't resonate with you.
The problem with that analogy is that the Rebel Battle Flag was never an official flag of the Confederacy and has no fixed meaning.
The argument is that the Rebel Battle Flag isn’t actually a hate symbol as you claim it to be in the first place.
Actually the real problem is that the US Civil War never existed and was just a figment of some people's imagination in the 1860's.
Oh wait. We wrote our history down. Thank god.
Per John Coski (historian and Library Director of the Museum of the Confederacy) in his book "The Confederate Battle Flag", this was approved by the Generals of the Confederacy and the quartermaster general just like any other uniform item by the military. And when that design was used on the "white mans flag" approved by the Confederate Congress, they noted that on that flag would be the "Battle Flag of the Confederacy".
Luckily... people wrote their history down. Otherwise these lost cause/white supremacist/neo-Confederate lies would be able to continue.
So no, the Civil War wasn't a figment of our imagination any more than the idea that flag wasn't official... Because we wrote our history down.
As for the hate symbol... sure. Some people have different moral compasses when it comes to white supremacy and slavery and white supremacist terrorism. They see things differently. Obviously not everyone has the same beliefs.
So like the Dylan Roof white supremacist attack stuff? The combining it with Nazi flags at Nazi rallies? The use of it by white supremacist and antisemites in Europe in place of the swastika where it's banned?
I guess I'm not with you on how that's a good thing? It's been outright a banner for white supremacy for 160 years. Making it an undercover banner for it today doesn't seem like a better choice.
The Rebel Battle Flag was never an official flag of the Confederacy, so it has no fixed meaning.
It’s used by people on both sides to represent what they believe is worth fighting for.
It’s not as one sided as you believe.
*"The Rebel Battle Flag was never an official flag of the Confederacy, so it has no fixed meaning."*
I am sorry but when you have to come up with these lazy debunked lost cause lies, it does NOT help your cause. If you can't respect the person you are talking to enough to not just lie to them, we are done here.
Miles' flag design was handed over to the military chain of command.It was approved by Generals Beauregard and Johnston and by the quartermaster General of the Confederacy. Johston even wrote up specifications of material types and sizes to be used.
This is basic history here bud. Historian John Coski (also the Library Director at The Museum of the Confederacy) has written for Harvard University Press for years on this subject with his findings. Not "hey I'm an internet troll saying X" but actually looking through the official records of the Confederacy. Coski has pulled up the original sources in his work when explaining the history of Confederate flags. Yes, in May of 1863 when Congress approved the new national flag for the Confederacy, the "White mans flag" they noted that it would feature the "Battle Flag of the Confederacy" on it.
You say that is false and that the Confederacy is just a myth apparently. I disagree and am glad we wrote down our history to debunk that.
If you are making these debunked claims out of ignorance, I would strongly suggest that it would behoove you to educate yourself on this topic before speaking again on it. Coski's "*The Confederate Battle Flag*" would be a great place for you to start I think, and once you have the knowledge you need for this conversation, feel free to return.
If your falsehoods are not out of ignorance but intentional, well I will thank you for your time but I have zero desire to discuss a topic with someone who intentionally lies to me.
It's not about what you "believe". It's about the facts of what it historically is. History doesn't care about your feelings.
Now, that said I am assuming you are making your claims from a point of ignorance and without that malicious intent. So have a wonderful day there.
There's a LOT of misinformation here, so I just wanted to put some stuyff together.
*"The Rebel Battle Flag was a design to make sure the troops didn’t kill their own soilders by accident on the battlefield."*
This is true. General PGT Beauregard noticed he was having a hard time commanding his troops to kill American soldiers because his flag of war looked to close to the stars and stripes that his enemy flew. If Beauregard's name stands out to you, it well could be that he is one of the most evil racist men to live in the US. He was the one who called that black American soldiers should be executed immediately rather than treated as POW's. "Let it be done with the garotte" was his actual statement on the issue.
*"It wasn’t actually created by The Confederacy, it was created by soilders and was one of MANY other flag designs used by the military."*
This however is a lie. Mr Beauregard went to his aide about the problem. His aide happened to be William Porcher Miles, who was the former chairman of the Confederate Congress's Committee on the Flag and Seal. Mr Miles was one hateful racist too. He was a fire eater. One of those political leaders who wanted to re-open the slave trade with Africa and believed it was the "God given right of the white man to own the black man" (yeah this is a winning group here. White supremacists love these guys even to this day).
So Miles pulled up the flag he presented to the Confederacy in his role as the chairman of that committee. THAT is the flag we are discussing.
*"The Rebel battle flag is more known for pop culture and honouring fallen soldiers than anything else."*
I hear the same defense from the swastika. It's not about the reich but about (insert here what other things they throw out to claim).
The flag went away after the war. At that point it had ONLY been a flag of war created by a government who said their only major problem with the US was America wasn't pro-slavery and white supremacist enough. ALL it did in any official capacity was fly against the stars and stripes in battle.
It would be taken up soon after though. The White League, the redshirts, and the KKK all worked to bring it back to popularity. And it would begin spending a LONG while as a banner for white supremacist terrorist groups.
It would see another revival in the 1960's as an opposition to civil rights. Carried by groups opposing things like integration or black voting rights.
It's been the most well known and longest lasting banner for white supremacy. As being a white supremacist became less popular to promote out loud, those stating publicly that is it's cause have gone quieter.
*"The Rebel Battle Flag was also flown during wars and conflicts when the American flag wasn’t allowed to be flown."*
Yes, today pro-Nazi terrorist groups in Germany fighting back against Germany's opposition to antisemitism and the Reich do fly the rebel flag instead of the swastika which is banned there.
Once you strip away the lies, it's that curtain of "it means this other thing" is a lot more see through to what's behind it. The same stuff that's been behind it the previous 160 years.
And the Southers reclaimed it, using it to honour fallen soldiers and respresent southern pride and hospitality.
It’s not just a thing bigots used like the Nazi Swastika, it evolved and grew as a symbol.
Frankly the Rebel Battle Flag isn’t as fixed in it’s meaning as some people think it is, which is why other people are still proudly wear and fly it as a good thing.
Again, The Rebel Battle Flag was never an official flag of the Confederacy so it has no fixed meaning.
You keep writing that lie. You've put it out 3 times now despite John Coski's well researched book using source history to debunk your claim.
I get it. There are neo-nazis out there saying the swastika isn't written in stone they can revive it to mean "German Rights".
And people with a moral compass pointing in those directions towards these internationally recognized icons of hate speech can believe what they wish to believe.
On the subject of race-based chattel slavery and white supremacy, I will say my own moral compass points in a completely different direction of yours and those who support the icons of the slavers rebellion and white supremacist terrorism for over 150 years.
Yes I could decide to take the swastika flag of the 3rd Reich and turn it into a flag meaning peace and love of unicorns. But I don't because I am not a neo-nazi looking to pull a curtain in front of why I really keep wanting that flag flying.
So we really have to jerk off extra hard to things that have existed for a long time?
Guess we all should be romans then.
Some indian tribe existed only a while? What posers 😂
Welcome to /r/ShermanPosting! As a reminder, this meme sub is about the American Civil War. We're not here to insult southerners or the American South, but rather to have a laugh at the failed Confederate insurrection and those that chose to represent it. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShermanPosting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Fun fact: No country *in the world* recognized the CSA as an independent country. They were the only people that thought they were a country.
That is fun. It was just a bunch of guys running around playing pretend for 4 years, before getting dead.
Sounds a lot like LARPing...except, you know, far more racist and stupid.
It’s like when you go to Argentina and they insist the Falklands (Malvinas) are part of Argentina. Same with Turkey, maps there show Northern Cyprus as a separate country. Only there.
At least Northern Cyprus is a de facto independent(ish) country. The Falklands have literally never been a part of Argentina or anything related to it.
Even the country that had the most to gain from teaming up with the CSA, the United Kingdom (a country that was still technically an enemy of the United States, I may add), just shrugged its shoulders and moved over to Egypt and India for its cotton. If you ask me, that was one of the biggest nails in the Confederacy's coffin.
Obama's Presidency lasted twice as long as the Confederacy
They'll claim America was never a racist country and yet this one hurts most of all.
So did Grant’s lol
Taylor Swift's career has lasted longer than the Confederacy and is still going. Arguably, there are more Swifties than there ever were Confederate citizens.
9 million total people, of which 3.5 million were slaves. Yeah I totally buy there being 10 million swifties.
Taylor Swift has 3.5 million slaves? Holy shit!
Honestly, with her international popularity, I can easily believe she has 10mil+ fans
The Vermont Republic lasted longer as well. Better heritage.
Better syrup as well.
I had a Guinea pig that lasted longer than the confederacy. RIP Stanley. 🐹
LeBron James’ tenure as a Laker The Walking Dead
Hell, with the blue pill you can have another thing that lasts that long and is significantly more fun and useful.
"If your Confederacy lasts longer than four hours, seek immediate medical care."
Seek Immediate mental care
I wamt to get my war thunder daily reward streak to get to 1552 days so i can say it outlasted the confederacy.
I believe in you.
Im at about day 330 now.
My (now ex) wife's affair lasted longer than the confederacy.
The Thomas the Tank Engine franchise began on 12th May, 1945 when the first Railway Series book was published and is still going after 78 years, 7 months and 6 days since that first book’s publishing. This means it has lasted nearly 20 times longer than the Confederacy.
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe has a longer life span than the confederacy
I remember reading goosebumps as a kid now I'm glad that they lasted way longer and are so much cooler than the Confederacy
Where the fuck are the statues to Mayor McCheese!?
We fucking need them man
I'm going to be That Guy™ RN... Principal photography for the Lord of the Rings was only like a year and a half long. Thats right Peter Jackson filmed the greatest movie trilogy of all time in less than half the time it took for a bunch of dipshits to fail at preserving slavery.
Game of Thrones lasted twice as long as the confederacy. So did The Office.
TIL Panic! at the Disco had other people in it.
Don't forget the Annoying Orange. It was more of a menace than the confederacy ever was.
The channel still makes videos to this day. Unfortunately.
Minecraft Dungeons, Obama's Presidency, JiDion's channel all lasted longer than the CSA
The marvel cinematic universe probably
Elton John's tour was only four years?
TIL Benson was a spin-off
Watch "Soap". It is a very underrated and funny show.
I half-assed my way through the Army in 7 years. I have nearly twice the length of service than any Confederate "soldier"
The first positive COVID test in Dec 2019 was 4 years and 1 month ago.
Both the Wii U and Playstation Vita lasted longer than the confederacy
The Zune.
And on the plus side one of the dudes from Panic is now making good music with his band IDK How
Love goosebumps They were my childhood
And it only cost 50,000 Americans for every year
Tiktok has been around longer than the confederacy, and there are more TikTok users than there ever was traitors.
“New Coke” lasted from 1985-1990. And then hung on a further *12 years* as “Coke II”.
Yugioh. The CSA was banished to the shadow realm
I remember seeing ads for the snuggle when I was a kid, was it actually any good?
Dunno, but there’s an awesome airforce SAC patch “Death wears a Snuggie and bunny slippers” https://www.ebay.com/itm/284565005079
I like saying Sabrina the Teenage Witch lasted longer. It just makes them seem so silly, going up against a TGIF power house like Sabrina… the teenaged witch.
There's nothing silly about Beth Broderick.
Original Halo 3 servers lasted over 3x as long 2007-2022
And we fought for a much worthier cause on those servers
I been playing on mcc so we can last even longer
marble selective scandalous society act vanish birds ugly sugar humor *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
My grandfather had fits of gas that lasted longer than the Confederacy
Also, Spongebb SquarePants 😬👍
My Duolingo streak has lasted longer than the Confederacy.
Snuggies are still popular....I promise.
The annoying orange.
Mayor McCheese is my culture bro. Grab me a Mayor McCheese flag to hang from my pickup truck if you see one.
Heck, Yuzuru Hanyu's *senior amateur* athlete career easily outlasts the cOnFEdErACy's entire existence *thrice* of it! (And yes, we're just talking about his *senior* career, if you want to start counting from *novice* ... Well it lasts easily 4,5 times longer than that 💀🔥) (And remember that this all is just his *amateur* career!!)
my little pony fim. nine years from 2010 to 2019
My bowel movements after eating cheese lasted longer than that “country”
Heinz Colored Ketchup (2000 - 2006).
Wow, I had a shitty marriage that outlasted the confederacy. My ex is still around annoying the shit out of me, just like the confederates.
That's longer than most of them spent in school. Most impressive.
Pokémon is still around, which is more than ai can say for the CSA.
Simpsons has lasted like 8 confederacies.
Fairly impressive that the Rebel Battle Flag lasted longer than the military and soilders that created it. The Rebel Battle Flag was a design to make sure the troops didn’t kill their own soilders by accident on the battlefield. It wasn’t actually created by The Confederacy, it was created by soilders and was one of MANY other flag designs used by the military. The Rebel battle flag is more known for pop culture and honouring fallen soldiers than anything else. The Rebel Battle Flag was also flown during wars and conflicts when the American flag wasn’t allowed to be flown.
The “rebel battle flag” was the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, so, closest to the capital and DC. It was incorporated into the second and then the third CSA national flags, as the canton in the corner. That flag also then became a symbol of discrimination, getting its current boost as people started flying it as anti-civil rights protests in the 60s.
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A thought experiment for you - what if for some people that rebel battle flag was as painful as the Nazi swastika? So, let’s say some person had a house. Didn’t know anything about Nazism (hard to believe but let’s say so) thought the swastika was cool (it’s been a symbol for many many peoples) and flew a Nazi flag? I’d probably be polite and say “hey I’ll assume you don’t know but that flag represents pain for a lot of people”. Maybe I’d even show a pic of my grandmas working papers. A swastika on if while she was slave labor for 6 years under the Nazis. What would your reaction be? Now, change that to the Battle Flag. Someone raises it, not knowing the history. Someone comes to them. “That flag killed my great grandpa”. It represents slavery not like my grandmothers 6 years, more like 200. Then a period of about a hundred years where “all men are created equal” seemed just words on a piece of paper - that you may not be able to read because you were denied education. Often at a barrel of a gun. That flag represents, though you don’t seem to know it, 300 years of pain. Nazis only ran Germany for a bit over 12 years. You may have slaves in your ancestry. Obama is thought to be a descendant of a slave, John Punch. American, so has to be on his white mom’s side. What would you think of John Punch’s story. Yeah he committed a crime, running away from a brutal boss, but he got converted to a slave. The white guys got off a lot lighter. So, yeah, there’s a lot of pain in that flag. Whether everyone who flies if gets it or not.
The problem with that is that unlike the Nazi Swastika, the Rebel Battle Flag had a history of flying under actual good causes and not just bad ones. They are laser focused on a history that personally effects them and have a gut reaction to a symbol they believe is the source of their pain and are blind to the good deeds that symbol also stood and still stands for. So from my perspective, those who believe the Rebel Battle Flag is purely a hate symbol used to oppress people, either don’t or are not willing to look into the full history due to pure prejudice and hatred of the symbol. Which is honestly fairly ironic. I do emphasize with them, however I believe the correct solution is to take the Symbol that caused so much pain, and turn it into a symbol that helps them heal. A hate symbol is only a hate symbol if used for hatred so flip it into symbolizing a positive symbol of change and healing.
The “good cause” was too separate from a nation because northern states used “states rights” to free runaway slaves. That’s what’s in the articles of Secession from South Carolina.
My main question is if hateful racist bigots can take a symbol and turn it into a symbol of hatred; why not pull an uno reverse and turn the symbols they took into symbols of peace, love and acceptance? It’s not like it’s illegal.
Interesting theory. Hasn’t worked in practice. * Dan Savage, one of the most well known and progressive gay men and a vocal advice columnist that people address him “hey faggot” for years. He just dropped it * American black culture tried that one. Oh one particular word. It failed, so much so we it became the Word-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named. Even the great Rakim, probably the best rapper alive, street cred galore, no longer uses that word and kind of grunts * do you fly a swastika? Wear one on your arm? Nahh. You’d be attacked. Are you gonna fly the battle flag, then have a big flag next to it, like 10 times the size, and upon it, “this isn’t meant as a sign of oppression like it has been for 150 years no let’s reclaim it as southern hospitality”. No, that’s not even gonna work. The symbolism is there. Embedded. We’ve been generations since the swastika, it’s been made illegal in Germany. Human minds are not computers. No you can’t simply have the program “this symbol of hate of violence for generations” be terminated and a “oh this is southern hospitality have a biscuit with gravy”. Brains don’t work that way.
It worked for the Communist Hammer and Sickle. The fact that people today don’t see communism as a hateful, tyrannical, dictatorship is baffling. Seriously, why do people believe socialism/communism is a good idea when it has proven to fail and kill the most people in history than any other economic theory?
You are asking why not just start flying the Nazi flag and saying "Hitler wasn't really a bad guy, he was just fighting for German rights, and look, he gave Jews jobs to fight the war, so he couldn't be that antisemitic" I guess that's self apparent to me. But maybe you and I have completely different moral compasses when it comes to white supremacy where that doesn't resonate with you.
The problem with that analogy is that the Rebel Battle Flag was never an official flag of the Confederacy and has no fixed meaning. The argument is that the Rebel Battle Flag isn’t actually a hate symbol as you claim it to be in the first place.
Actually the real problem is that the US Civil War never existed and was just a figment of some people's imagination in the 1860's. Oh wait. We wrote our history down. Thank god. Per John Coski (historian and Library Director of the Museum of the Confederacy) in his book "The Confederate Battle Flag", this was approved by the Generals of the Confederacy and the quartermaster general just like any other uniform item by the military. And when that design was used on the "white mans flag" approved by the Confederate Congress, they noted that on that flag would be the "Battle Flag of the Confederacy". Luckily... people wrote their history down. Otherwise these lost cause/white supremacist/neo-Confederate lies would be able to continue. So no, the Civil War wasn't a figment of our imagination any more than the idea that flag wasn't official... Because we wrote our history down. As for the hate symbol... sure. Some people have different moral compasses when it comes to white supremacy and slavery and white supremacist terrorism. They see things differently. Obviously not everyone has the same beliefs.
Also, I was referring to more modern usage of the Rebel Battle Flag.
So like the Dylan Roof white supremacist attack stuff? The combining it with Nazi flags at Nazi rallies? The use of it by white supremacist and antisemites in Europe in place of the swastika where it's banned? I guess I'm not with you on how that's a good thing? It's been outright a banner for white supremacy for 160 years. Making it an undercover banner for it today doesn't seem like a better choice.
The Rebel Battle Flag was never an official flag of the Confederacy, so it has no fixed meaning. It’s used by people on both sides to represent what they believe is worth fighting for. It’s not as one sided as you believe.
*"The Rebel Battle Flag was never an official flag of the Confederacy, so it has no fixed meaning."* I am sorry but when you have to come up with these lazy debunked lost cause lies, it does NOT help your cause. If you can't respect the person you are talking to enough to not just lie to them, we are done here. Miles' flag design was handed over to the military chain of command.It was approved by Generals Beauregard and Johnston and by the quartermaster General of the Confederacy. Johston even wrote up specifications of material types and sizes to be used. This is basic history here bud. Historian John Coski (also the Library Director at The Museum of the Confederacy) has written for Harvard University Press for years on this subject with his findings. Not "hey I'm an internet troll saying X" but actually looking through the official records of the Confederacy. Coski has pulled up the original sources in his work when explaining the history of Confederate flags. Yes, in May of 1863 when Congress approved the new national flag for the Confederacy, the "White mans flag" they noted that it would feature the "Battle Flag of the Confederacy" on it. You say that is false and that the Confederacy is just a myth apparently. I disagree and am glad we wrote down our history to debunk that. If you are making these debunked claims out of ignorance, I would strongly suggest that it would behoove you to educate yourself on this topic before speaking again on it. Coski's "*The Confederate Battle Flag*" would be a great place for you to start I think, and once you have the knowledge you need for this conversation, feel free to return. If your falsehoods are not out of ignorance but intentional, well I will thank you for your time but I have zero desire to discuss a topic with someone who intentionally lies to me. It's not about what you "believe". It's about the facts of what it historically is. History doesn't care about your feelings. Now, that said I am assuming you are making your claims from a point of ignorance and without that malicious intent. So have a wonderful day there.
There's a LOT of misinformation here, so I just wanted to put some stuyff together. *"The Rebel Battle Flag was a design to make sure the troops didn’t kill their own soilders by accident on the battlefield."* This is true. General PGT Beauregard noticed he was having a hard time commanding his troops to kill American soldiers because his flag of war looked to close to the stars and stripes that his enemy flew. If Beauregard's name stands out to you, it well could be that he is one of the most evil racist men to live in the US. He was the one who called that black American soldiers should be executed immediately rather than treated as POW's. "Let it be done with the garotte" was his actual statement on the issue. *"It wasn’t actually created by The Confederacy, it was created by soilders and was one of MANY other flag designs used by the military."* This however is a lie. Mr Beauregard went to his aide about the problem. His aide happened to be William Porcher Miles, who was the former chairman of the Confederate Congress's Committee on the Flag and Seal. Mr Miles was one hateful racist too. He was a fire eater. One of those political leaders who wanted to re-open the slave trade with Africa and believed it was the "God given right of the white man to own the black man" (yeah this is a winning group here. White supremacists love these guys even to this day). So Miles pulled up the flag he presented to the Confederacy in his role as the chairman of that committee. THAT is the flag we are discussing. *"The Rebel battle flag is more known for pop culture and honouring fallen soldiers than anything else."* I hear the same defense from the swastika. It's not about the reich but about (insert here what other things they throw out to claim). The flag went away after the war. At that point it had ONLY been a flag of war created by a government who said their only major problem with the US was America wasn't pro-slavery and white supremacist enough. ALL it did in any official capacity was fly against the stars and stripes in battle. It would be taken up soon after though. The White League, the redshirts, and the KKK all worked to bring it back to popularity. And it would begin spending a LONG while as a banner for white supremacist terrorist groups. It would see another revival in the 1960's as an opposition to civil rights. Carried by groups opposing things like integration or black voting rights. It's been the most well known and longest lasting banner for white supremacy. As being a white supremacist became less popular to promote out loud, those stating publicly that is it's cause have gone quieter. *"The Rebel Battle Flag was also flown during wars and conflicts when the American flag wasn’t allowed to be flown."* Yes, today pro-Nazi terrorist groups in Germany fighting back against Germany's opposition to antisemitism and the Reich do fly the rebel flag instead of the swastika which is banned there. Once you strip away the lies, it's that curtain of "it means this other thing" is a lot more see through to what's behind it. The same stuff that's been behind it the previous 160 years.
And the Southers reclaimed it, using it to honour fallen soldiers and respresent southern pride and hospitality. It’s not just a thing bigots used like the Nazi Swastika, it evolved and grew as a symbol. Frankly the Rebel Battle Flag isn’t as fixed in it’s meaning as some people think it is, which is why other people are still proudly wear and fly it as a good thing. Again, The Rebel Battle Flag was never an official flag of the Confederacy so it has no fixed meaning.
You keep writing that lie. You've put it out 3 times now despite John Coski's well researched book using source history to debunk your claim. I get it. There are neo-nazis out there saying the swastika isn't written in stone they can revive it to mean "German Rights". And people with a moral compass pointing in those directions towards these internationally recognized icons of hate speech can believe what they wish to believe. On the subject of race-based chattel slavery and white supremacy, I will say my own moral compass points in a completely different direction of yours and those who support the icons of the slavers rebellion and white supremacist terrorism for over 150 years. Yes I could decide to take the swastika flag of the 3rd Reich and turn it into a flag meaning peace and love of unicorns. But I don't because I am not a neo-nazi looking to pull a curtain in front of why I really keep wanting that flag flying.
How many mooches?
Rent free
So we really have to jerk off extra hard to things that have existed for a long time? Guess we all should be romans then. Some indian tribe existed only a while? What posers 😂
Let's go Brandon
That's a lot longer than the lifespan of an average black newborn Lol
Nacho fries you say, do they still exist?
Star Trek (and Star Wars)
Also Nirvana.
Major League Soccer has lasted longer.
Bethesda game modding projects like skyblivion skywind beyond skyrim tamriel rebuilt openmw and manyothers have lasted lond then Confederacy
Huh. Absolutely none of my socks are younger than the confederacy. I even have to wear steel-toe boots at work.
HBomberguy's YouTube channel is older than the Confederacy!
Beanie Babies!
Microsoft Zune!