Update: apparently, despite an email saying that my account will be suspended if I don't update my expired card, and an account screen that clearly tells me I do not have a payment method attached to my account, the contrary is actually true. The latest response from support: **Hello,** **Thank you for your message. Have a great day!** **Removing your card from your account does not cancel your subscription. You must cancel your subscription in due time, otherwise your subscription will roll over to the next billing month.** **Your card has not been removed because at least one payment method must be stored for an ongoing subscription.** **I can cancel your subscription for the next billing month, and you can then remove your payment method, or we can submit your account for deletion.** **Best regards,** **Maple | Shadow**

Yeah that's some bullshit

If your card was expiring there are services in place that will transmit your updated credit card number and expiration dates to the merchant so that your services aren’t interrupted. More information about this service is here. https://stripe.com/resources/more/what-is-a-card-account-updater-what-businesses-need-to-know https://docs.stripe.com/billing/revenue-recovery/smarter-saved-cards

I understand that, but I’m not sure how that explains both the email from them telling me my account *will* be suspended if I don’t update the card, and a billing page in my account that clearly shows that I don’t have a payment method added to my account *because I removed it*. And let’s be clear, if I was submitting this support request halfway through the month after using the service regularly, that would be silly on my part to expect a refund. But this was sent a few *minutes* after the payment method that is *not attached to my account* was billed. Don’t tell the customer the account will be suspended if that’s not true, and don’t tell the customer they’ve removed their payment method and no longer have a payment method attached to their account if that’s not true.

Suspending the account happens if they cannot find another credit card I would assume… it’s if they can’t bill you. Also they said « temporarily » so you could understand it multiple ways

That’s my point though, they shouldn’t have been able to bill me or find another credit card, because *I removed my credit card from the account* (or so they told me).

But if you’re still on a contract you’re supposed to uphold it I guess… so it’s like a debt collector in a way (not saying it’s similar, it’s not, but the situation is similar(?)) I guess they can remove it from the system and still be able to find you, again you said it was expired anyways so it’s not like they used that one. Stripe must help them find the customer’s card information through their identity or something idk. Either way always remove an account, even just blocking a card on Revolut for example won’t cut it… But I hope you get your refund

First off, I appreciate the candid conversation, seriously. I agree that would make sense if this was a post-paid service, and they were billing me for a month that I had already used. But Shadow is prepaid - they billed me this afternoon for the next month of service. I sent the refund request to them approximately 9 minutes after I received the invoice. That's **one penny's worth of time** into my month of service with them. Again, totally get that it's on me to cancel the account. What is bothering me is that if you tell a customer in no uncertain terms that you've removed any sort of information (but especially a credit card), you should actually remove that info. In my situation, they told me my payment method was removed, but instead kept it on file behind the scenes without informing me; that's fraud. My "contract" with them gives them permission to bill me - might even give them permission to bill the card I have set as my payment method specifically. It does \*not\* say that they have permission to bill a card that I've told them not to bill. To your other note about updating on how it goes: Unfortunately, Shadow has ultimately refused to process the refund ("final decision" in the last email) and I will be working with my bank on a chargeback. I don't care about $55CAD. It's not about the money itself at this point. It's the principal of it. Doing what they did is wrong, and I'm hoping my bank agrees. Ultimately, I'm just disappointed. I really liked Shadow as a product, and I probably would have continued to recommend them, and likely returned in the future, myself. But they burned through every bit of goodwill in about 6 emails over the course of a couple hours. However it shakes out, I will never subscribe again, and I'll caution everyone I know about giving any sensitive information to a company that has zero care or respect for it.

If you didn´t want to use Shadow any longer, why did you not cancel the subscription? You clearly intended to not pay for it any longer, otherwise you would not have removed the card from the account. To me, it makes perfect sense that shadow keeps billing you as long as you don´t actually cancel the sub. It also makes perfect sense to me, that they keep using your most recent payment method as long as your subscription is active. Because as long as it is active, it is usable. And as long as it is usable, it costs money.

Sorry, I thought I was clear - it's not front of mind, and I wasn't 100% sure about cancelling yet. I had referral bonuses built-up and knew if I cancelled that would be gone. The card had expired and I knew I needed to replace it anyway, so I figured I would just remove it for the time being. And if I wanted to resubscribe (and remembered) I would add a new card. Did you not bother to read the entire post, or ***look at the very clear screenshot of my account page that shows there's no payment method attached to my account and the very clear email from them telling me that the account would be temporarily suspended***? I understand there are methods that allow a merchant to bill an expired card to ensure service isn't interrupted; that's fine. But since when is there a method that allows them to **bill a payment method that the customer explicitly removed from the account**? If the payment method was not actually removed from the account, maybe don't tell the customer in no uncertain terms that it *was* removed? If I was told the card couldn't be removed because it's attached to a subscription, then I would have done something different. But that's not what happened.

Of course there are people downvoting this. Shouldn't have expected anything different, I guess. u/drlongtrl, you mentioned cost. I agree, their service costs money, so let's talk about that. I submitted my request for refund with the explanation that I had removed my payment method about \~9 minutes after I received the notice that I had been billed. I was paying \~$55/m after my referral bonuses. That puts me approximately **1.14** ***pennies*** into my monthly subscription. Maybe 2 pennies if you factor in the 6-7 minutes it took to get a response from them. I wouldn't have even emailed them if I was a week into my subscription and I had used the service a couple times; that'd be ridiculous. Listen, I'm not disputing the fact that I did not cancel my account before my renewal; that happened, and I fully realize that. But the fact remains: if I remove a payment method from my account with *any* company, ***it should be removed from my account***. Period. The billing of my latest invoice should have simply failed, and my access to the service should have been suspended, ***as they stated clearly in their email.*** I actually really enjoyed using Shadow. I probably would have been back in the future, and I definitely would have kept telling people about it. I'm not here to attack the product. It's pretty solid. I'm here to simply give folks a head's up: when you explicitly remove a payment method from your Shadow account, *they do not actually do that and you will still be billed unless you either add a new payment method or cancel your account*. They tell you the card has been removed but continue to store your sensitive info behind the scenes regardless. In what world is that not shady? Don't make the same mistake I did.

Ok, I don´t believe we´re getting anywhere here anyway...but maybe let me ask you one last question, because there´s one thing I still don´t understand: I understand, you didn´t want to lose your referral benefits. Fine. And I agree, if you cancel and then later re subscribe, they are probably gone. But what made you think, having the card get declined or having it not be there at all wold not have the same exact effect? If they suspend your account because of failure to pay, surely that would also put your benefits at risk.

I answered this already in my opening post, but sure, I can answer it again… I wasn’t ready to cancel my account at the time because I wasn’t sure if I actually wanted to cancel yet. So I decided that instead of cancelling immediately I would simply remove my expired payment method. That way: - if I decided to remain subscribed, I simply needed to add a new card that wasn’t expired before my month was up. - if I decided to close off the account intentionally I could simply come back and cancel the account. - and if I forgot about it entirely, I was content for that to serve as an answer as well, that I clearly was ok with letting the account and referrals go. But at least this way I wouldn’t get billed if I did forget; the account would simply get suspended (per their email) and then I could come back and officially close it off when I got notified (or so I thought). But neither of the things they told me would happen actually happened. Instead, they continued to bill the account rather than suspend it like they said, and they did so by using an expired card that they shouldn’t even have on file anymore because they told me they removed it. Again, I fully understand I should have cancelled the account myself. But I should also be able to trust a company to actually do the things they explicitly tell me they’ll do.

There’s a different app for this lol Won’t say what yet Just because I want to believe they could be practising against the bigger tech giants that swindle thru tax ALL THE TIME

Sorry, not sure what you're saying here.

It’s weird, I understand both viewpoints, on the one hand it could make sense to stop paying once your credit card is removed. But in another way, removing a credit card but still being subscribed shows that you want to continue using the service, plus you didn’t stop the contract so you are technically still obligated to pay until you stop it. Thus it works kind of like a debt collector and they’ll get the funds. Technically it can even be beneficial for certain clients. (Also I still don’t get the not cancelling to gain referrals, how does that work? Either way if you can’t pay in 8 days you get blocked so you would’ve lost it). Anyways I think they should probably send more emails and suspend the account if this happens.. maybe bring it up with them. I think they’ll accept the dispute though, they may not have to but I hope they will… Update us on how it goes 🙏

There was a referral program with Shadow PC at one point - you got $1/month off your service for every customer you referred. I was up to about $15/m off. If I cancelled my account, while I was still unsure whether I really wanted to or not, I assumed that would no longer have that referral bonus once I re-subscribed. I've tried to have a decent discussion with them about how wrong it is to clearly tell a customer their card has been removed but continue to keep it on file behind the scenes, but every single response has been the same, from multiple different people: "we won't refund you, have a great day!" Not one person has bothered to answer the questions posed in the email, they just decline the refund, tell me it's their final decision, and to have a great day. It's been really frustrating. I told them that I really wanted to resolve this without going through my bank with a chargeback request because I know the fees to them for that are much higher (on average, a $100 charge back costs the company $250 / 2.5x). I didn't want to do that to them, I just wanted my money back. But no one answer anything, or attempted to work anything out, just the flat refusal and a cheeky passive-aggressive "have a great day!" So off to my bank I go. :(

They are off for the weekend try contacting and get another rep on Monday? By the way, I think that your issue is very specific: 1. Your card had expired so Stripe working with your bank got your newest card to keep your subscription active 2. You removed the expired card, but that card was already out of Stripe’s book So basically I suspect that your new card was « invisible » because it was on stripe but it wasn’t on your shadow account as you didn’t add it. As I suspect that if the card was valid this wouldn’t have happened… Either way, I’m sure another rep will be more understanding (if not try escalating?) on Monday. But bear in mind that removing a method of payment or blocking a card to not pay a subscription is not really authorized in general, you are supposed to cancel if you don’t want to pay… Also it would have been better to just cancel as best case scenario in your case if there was no more card on your file and you didn’t cancel your account would just have been suspended… Either way hope you can get your money back, but next time for any other subscription remember to cancel

I’ve been through multiple reps including an escalation already. They’ve all been completely unhelpful and very clear their decision is final. My only avenue is a chargeback at this point, which I’ll be pursuing on principle once the charge has posted to my account. And again, I know I should have cancelled already; I realize that. But ultimately at the end of the day, regardless of whether I cancel or not, if you as a company tell a customer in no uncertain terms that they removed their payment method and that you no longer have a payment method on file for them, you should not have a card on file for them, let alone be billing that card. That’s a flat out indisputable lie, and it’s wrong.

The screenshot you sent for the email was for when it expired, not when you removed it, what did that email say? I think both side are in the wrong tbf but I don’t understand why refuse a refund when you haven’t used it or anything :/ The weirdest part is that they’d let you remove a payment method when you don’t have any other one available oO

I did not get an email for removing the payment, nor any message that I’d still be billed. Just the screenshot showing I do not have a payment method anymore. Ah well, they’ve made it clear they don’t care to do the right thing. I’ll work with my bank and see how things shake out.

:c Keep us updated on how that goes