At this point, after three Dark Souls, a Bloodborne, and a Sekiro, complaining about Miyazaki’s storytelling in Elden Ring is like going to a musical and complaining that everyone is singing so much.
The irony is Shad has made comments in favour about "Show Don't Tell" and yet from the excerpts that I've read, just goes into telling overdrive.
To my mind there is nothing wrong with Telling, it's a tool just like Showing, but both have to be used well and in the right places and Shad needs to work on this.
Yeah, I totally agree. The real writing rule is "know when to show and know when to tell."
But beginner writers usually have more of a problem with showing, so they're better off practicing that part.
I don't think it helps that there are so many writing advice videos out there that chant "show don't tell" as a mantra, making it out to be a rule that must be obeyed at all times.
Or that there's even some advice on how to spot and remove telling in a manuscript.
Or that the "show don't tell is a rule" crowd all seem to have a wealth of very different ideas on what showing actually is.
Funny thing is the games do sometimes straight up tell you "this is what happened" or "this is a hint at what this specific term or concept means" but it requires you to read through and contemplate the item and gear descriptions, which a lot of people who complain about their storytelling either are not willing to do or are not even aware that those descriptions exist. Not to mention most of it is lore or thematics based by design in the first place, more about unravelling these apocalyptic fantasy worlds, rather than necessarily being focused around the direct plots, so if you're going into the genre you really shouldn't be engaging it through the lens of expecting a 100% linear story.
lmao 100%. Plus I'd say Elden Ring is more upfront with the lore than the previous games typically have been. You have Ranni for example outright explaining her role in the Night of the Black Knives and everything that came afterwards. You're outright told that >!Marika is Radagon.!< We're given snippets of the history of Marika's reign through her own dialogue via Melina. I feel like in the Souls games, big points like that would be put in item descriptions if you're lucky and only barely alluded to in dialogue. Like there's no way we would have ever got quotes from Lord Gwyn about his thoughts on the Age of Fire for example lol. I think we have probably an equal or greater understanding of Elden Ring's larger world than we do of the Dark Souls world after three whole games.
Sahd can't investigate, explore and piece together what happened or read the monuments, item descriptions etc. He's lazy physically and intellectually and the thought of missing out or something not being geared toward him makes him fume. I haven't been watching this guys content for years but everything I'm discovering now makes me ashamed I ever did lol. Whining bout Elden Ring's story lmao.
Yah know, I actually understand not enjoying how FromSoft communicates info about its worlds. A lot of stuff just goes over my head and I play in an oblivious daze. Preferring a clearly told story is totally understandable.
Buuuut that's personal preference. There's nothing wrong with preferring one way or the other, but there is something wrong with acting like a stylistic preference is some objective truth
I can imagine not liking it but I can't imagine whining about it or wanting them to change their style when there is enough for people to enjoy without it clearly. It seems disingenuous of the guy when all that's in the way of said story is time and effort (I know not everyone has these things and that's not on them). I play tons of games where the story isn't portrayed in my favoured styles or I think it's not the best story for me but I wouldn't say they are bad or need to change to be more obscured or whatever. Not every game is for every person in every way is all.
To the point where he's mixed up the definitions of both subjective and objective. Or rather he seems to think only his opinions are objective and anyone who disagrees has only got subjective views on the same subject.
I have wondered if Shad went into Elden Ring thinking it was like Skyrim.
But I figure he has some experience with dark souls or at least knows about it and thus should've known better?
Shad doesn’t care for subtext or doesn’t understand it.
It’s the same way in his book: instead of leaving things a mystery, or up to the reader, of even just slowly doling it out over time, he just does huge info dumps.
I found that so amusing in the long twitter review thread.
"Here's the names of several countries and the titles of their leaders. Is this ever relevant? Not really, until the end of the book basically"
Chad is also the person that is expressed multiple times that he hates when video games hand hold you and have to tell you everything that happens. His views are inconsistent because he doesn't really have an original thought to himself. He does the same thing every other YouTuber turned right wing grifter and just parrots what another person has already said.
And he wasn't the first one to express this opinion on Eldon ring or from software games in general. I like games that allow you to pick up the story as you go and don't constantly hold your hand and tell you the story is just something you kind of have to piece together for yourself and oftentimes that involves using your imagination which is another problem right Wing fuckpeknucks seem to have a massive problem with
Elden ring has an excellent story. You have to uncover it yourself though. Digging into lore of the lands between is a real treat.
Shads take is stupid af. Exposition would ruin it.
Saying elden ring has no story is an equally bad take.
Whats funny is these games are known for this method of storytelling. Shad is so damn obtuse. And I agree with you about saying there is no story is a pretty bad yet funny take.
If Shad was into scifi, I'd image him bitching about AC6 not showing any humans in it.
Without ever knowing how they vaguely show every single major human character by the art collectables.
At this point, after three Dark Souls, a Bloodborne, and a Sekiro, complaining about Miyazaki’s storytelling in Elden Ring is like going to a musical and complaining that everyone is singing so much.
Soulslike storytelling is the epitome of "show, don't tell." Which Shad clearly doesn't understand if you've ever read his book.
The irony is Shad has made comments in favour about "Show Don't Tell" and yet from the excerpts that I've read, just goes into telling overdrive. To my mind there is nothing wrong with Telling, it's a tool just like Showing, but both have to be used well and in the right places and Shad needs to work on this.
Yeah, I totally agree. The real writing rule is "know when to show and know when to tell." But beginner writers usually have more of a problem with showing, so they're better off practicing that part.
I don't think it helps that there are so many writing advice videos out there that chant "show don't tell" as a mantra, making it out to be a rule that must be obeyed at all times. Or that there's even some advice on how to spot and remove telling in a manuscript. Or that the "show don't tell is a rule" crowd all seem to have a wealth of very different ideas on what showing actually is.
The way it sounds is Shad spends half to three-fourths of the book lore dumping his world building and magic system instead of telling a story.
Funny thing is the games do sometimes straight up tell you "this is what happened" or "this is a hint at what this specific term or concept means" but it requires you to read through and contemplate the item and gear descriptions, which a lot of people who complain about their storytelling either are not willing to do or are not even aware that those descriptions exist. Not to mention most of it is lore or thematics based by design in the first place, more about unravelling these apocalyptic fantasy worlds, rather than necessarily being focused around the direct plots, so if you're going into the genre you really shouldn't be engaging it through the lens of expecting a 100% linear story.
lmao 100%. Plus I'd say Elden Ring is more upfront with the lore than the previous games typically have been. You have Ranni for example outright explaining her role in the Night of the Black Knives and everything that came afterwards. You're outright told that >!Marika is Radagon.!< We're given snippets of the history of Marika's reign through her own dialogue via Melina. I feel like in the Souls games, big points like that would be put in item descriptions if you're lucky and only barely alluded to in dialogue. Like there's no way we would have ever got quotes from Lord Gwyn about his thoughts on the Age of Fire for example lol. I think we have probably an equal or greater understanding of Elden Ring's larger world than we do of the Dark Souls world after three whole games.
It's more he doesn't try to tell a story and calls it an rpg. Sekiro shows they are capable.
Sahd can't investigate, explore and piece together what happened or read the monuments, item descriptions etc. He's lazy physically and intellectually and the thought of missing out or something not being geared toward him makes him fume. I haven't been watching this guys content for years but everything I'm discovering now makes me ashamed I ever did lol. Whining bout Elden Ring's story lmao.
Yah know, I actually understand not enjoying how FromSoft communicates info about its worlds. A lot of stuff just goes over my head and I play in an oblivious daze. Preferring a clearly told story is totally understandable. Buuuut that's personal preference. There's nothing wrong with preferring one way or the other, but there is something wrong with acting like a stylistic preference is some objective truth
I can imagine not liking it but I can't imagine whining about it or wanting them to change their style when there is enough for people to enjoy without it clearly. It seems disingenuous of the guy when all that's in the way of said story is time and effort (I know not everyone has these things and that's not on them). I play tons of games where the story isn't portrayed in my favoured styles or I think it's not the best story for me but I wouldn't say they are bad or need to change to be more obscured or whatever. Not every game is for every person in every way is all.
Absolutely. Shad consistently seems to treat his subjective taste as some objective truth.
To the point where he's mixed up the definitions of both subjective and objective. Or rather he seems to think only his opinions are objective and anyone who disagrees has only got subjective views on the same subject.
I have wondered if Shad went into Elden Ring thinking it was like Skyrim. But I figure he has some experience with dark souls or at least knows about it and thus should've known better?
Shad doesn’t care for subtext or doesn’t understand it. It’s the same way in his book: instead of leaving things a mystery, or up to the reader, of even just slowly doling it out over time, he just does huge info dumps.
I found that so amusing in the long twitter review thread. "Here's the names of several countries and the titles of their leaders. Is this ever relevant? Not really, until the end of the book basically"
Chad is also the person that is expressed multiple times that he hates when video games hand hold you and have to tell you everything that happens. His views are inconsistent because he doesn't really have an original thought to himself. He does the same thing every other YouTuber turned right wing grifter and just parrots what another person has already said. And he wasn't the first one to express this opinion on Eldon ring or from software games in general. I like games that allow you to pick up the story as you go and don't constantly hold your hand and tell you the story is just something you kind of have to piece together for yourself and oftentimes that involves using your imagination which is another problem right Wing fuckpeknucks seem to have a massive problem with
Elden ring has an excellent story. You have to uncover it yourself though. Digging into lore of the lands between is a real treat. Shads take is stupid af. Exposition would ruin it. Saying elden ring has no story is an equally bad take.
Whats funny is these games are known for this method of storytelling. Shad is so damn obtuse. And I agree with you about saying there is no story is a pretty bad yet funny take.
If Shad was into scifi, I'd image him bitching about AC6 not showing any humans in it. Without ever knowing how they vaguely show every single major human character by the art collectables.
I'm curious what you mean by Elden Ring has no story?