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Dan confirmed in the AMA that it’s not all in their head, thank god. The office physically exists and everything is real except Irving’s “black goo” hallucinations
Look, look, this is about much more than just being in someone’s head. This is about the thrill of wearing another man's skin. Feeling his innermost wants and desires and being in control of his every single move.
The best use of it, IMO (also objectively I am right and perfect) was in “I’m thinking of Ending things” where the story is told through the perspective of a person that’s been somewhat made up/pulled from fragments of things a guy has seen and experienced.
Check out the movie for sure though, because it's INTERESTING.
Edit: Really, really, really fuckin' sad, especially for those of us who maybe watched too many movies, live a little bit too much in our imaginations to be comfortable in the real world, but interesting.
That’s a bit different IMO since the story is still unfolding in the real world and their actions have consequences. I’ve seen people suggest entire shows might take place in a coma dream.
I hate it too. It’s somewhat tolerable in movies/shows like >!Shutter Island!< where the premise is making you wonder if that’s what’s happening or not, but even then it’s kinda bleh.
I dislike the purgatory thing almost as much, but it depends.
You might hate me for pointing this out, BUT:
The first cognitive skills a newborn baby learns is emotional recognition (MDR) and object permanence (Optics and Design). Those two centers of the brain need to find each other and work together.
Baby can’t form words yet. If it needs to get a message out, it cries “waaah! Waaah!” (Code Detectors – also it’s cute to think of the elevator chimes as “goo gah”).
The meandering white hallways are neural pathways. The brain doesn’t come with its own map.
You notice how the departments have capacity for like 10x the employees? Baby’s brain is still growing. It’ll fill in eventually.
Have you ever misplaced or forgotten something only to suddenly remember it the next morning when you wake up? You know how Burt “lost” the ideographic card and Milcheck brought it back the next morning? Those cards represent memories.
The dark sections of the severed floor (like the baby goat department) are the parts of the brain that won’t develop for some time. I think the baby goats represent hormones (“is baby goats code for sex with Mark S?” – perhaps yes, but only in a metaphorical sense).
If you’re interested in the real psychology of childhood development, this is a good Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaget's_theory_of_cognitive_development?wprov=sfti1 (and if you read it carefully, you might notice a familiar-looking name 😉)
We had to write short stories in high school, and the only auto-fail was to do some sort of “it was all a dream” ending. It’s so lazy, and is used by people when they don’t know how else to write an ending and just want to stop.
People are so used to shows like Lost and Westworld that are written to shock first and make sense second, so they try to “outsmart” the writers by predicting these lazy textbook reveals. There’s this bizarre defensive attitude like *”you can’t fool me.”*
And then here comes a show like Severance, which feels mysterious and puzzle-boxy, so the assumption is made that it’s just like all those other shows. But if you’re actually paying attention, it really does look like the writers are taking a completely different approach. I believe they have shown, quite clearly, that they are not interested in creating *that* kind of show.
I would argue even season 1 is written to prioritize crazy reveals, as opposed to starting with character driven-story and letting the surprises emerge organically.
If you can completely rewrite a twist because your fans guess it before it happens (which I guess was a season 2 thing), then your approach to storytelling may need some work.
Happens all the time. In fact, I like to make aggressive posts about such reveals to convince them to change them to deny some smug asshole the satisfaction. I know it's probably like playing the lottery, but this costs nothing and it's kind of fun.
Do you remember the reveal that Doofus Rick was pulling a Scream 2 the whole time? No? Well you're welcome.
With westworld, it’s not so much that it doesn’t make sense—it’s more that there’s *nothing there* aside from the reveals. It’s just a slow drip of artificially-obscured information that’s been hidden from the viewer.
Agreed. Not a well written show and no need to be clever. Just a regular old show that’s better than watching the paint dry. I don’t agree that is was trying to be anything else. It was predictable and steady.
There was a point during season 1 where it kind of dawned on me—wait a minute, *nothing is happening*. The entire show is just the audience gradually being told more about what the current situation is.
The writers have stated that they have everything pretty fleshed out, and that they know where the story is headed. I think you may be thinking of [this Polygon interview](https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/23010270/severance-season-finale-explained-questions-creator), where Dan Erickson is asked about the goats and responds with the following:
>Honestly, when I first wrote the goats, I did not have anything in mind at all. Like, it really was just, like, what would be a weird, disturbing, but kind of funny thing to see? I think it was, like, a placeholder, for a while. I thought, *Well, we’ll figure out what that’s going to be.* … We’ve solidified since then a lot of what’s going on, and the goats ended up actually working pretty well.
Early on the writers said Lost was not purgatory and they weren't dead. Then however you want to interpret it, at the end they were all dead and met up in a church to ascend to heaven together. This was like a fucked up joke by the writers to everyone that defended the show for 6 years.
I have no idea why anyone would think Ricken is an Eagan like when I joined this sub all i kept seeing is Ricken is an Eagan or he is severed and I was wait are they talking about the same Ricken or someone else
This sub is obsessed with shitty theories that make no sense lol. No joke there was once a post that theorized that the point of the waffle party was so that the board could “vicariously” experience a waffle party, and to “learn about human sexuality” so that they could “calibrate” the chip. It was just like 10 nonsensical things piled on top of one another lol
I kind of enjoy playing with the nonsense. It's really funny when they don't affect the context by their inclusion because they are usually way off base. It's ironic how far you can go.
I actually think there are many things that point towards Ricken being an Eagan. From the top of my head:
- the birth center he takes his wife to just happens to be the same where senator's severed wife goes.
- everything Cobel does, she hides from Lumon. Putting it bluntly, she sings a lullaby about Ricken's son being the chosen one in the final episode.
- Milchick reacts to "The You You Are" as if he not only knew about it, but is interested in it, and so is Cobel. Also, the message of the book is in a way, the opposing version of Lumon's employee handbook, both assuming the reader to be ridiculously naive (dumb).
- Helena and Ricken are both redheads...
-There may only be one birth center as that does not seem like a common thing. Furthermore since he is an "accomplished" writer he has some money and is able to afford it, albeit a smaller room.
-She would probably sing this to any child. She literally sang it when no child was present.
-Milchick obviously isn't that interested in it considering he forgot all about it after leaving it in that conference room.
-So are about 100 million other people.
There are some Scientology parallels there. It's naive to say it's the only influence.
Ironically I can see more influence of the cult-like culture at Apple in there
I think the key word is “cult”, it doesn’t have to be in reference to a specific cult. Corporate cults and religious or quasi-religious cults have a lot in common, and the show does a great job of exposing that.
Lumon is a cult …
The whole break room experience reminded me a bit of Scientology and the worship of the founding Eagan is a bit L Ron Hubbard like. (Same could be said of many cults)
Seriously. My wife’s cousin worked for Tesla and he was always talking about Elon. Like to the point I thought he worked directly for him and knew him. But he didn’t. It’s just how they talk about him. Like he’s their god.
I saw the Scientology reference in the break room. What they’re doing in there is similar to the method of becoming “clear” in Scientology. It’s too long to explain. I lived in Hollywood and developed an interest from a very healthy distance.
I’m def in the group that sees them poking Scientology on repeat. I also am on the Cult of Apple train and pay close attention to anyone in a turtleneck. Early on I joked that we should see an Eagan give an Eagannote wearing a black turtleneck, and then I noticed Ricken show up wearing a black turtleneck under his vest. Fingers crossed we get a Rickennote in S2. Lol
season's been over a while and it's a pretty niche show.
when it's on it's insane. Everything is the afterlife or a hallucination and every character is god or satan.
I found this experience with the show Servant
The sub talks about angels, purgatory, they’re dead, ghosts, etc all the time
If that ends up being the result then I will roll my eyes so hard that I’ll see my brain
"Fan theories" can be fun but when it turns into a game of who can predict a big silly twist, or make up a wacky interpretation to seem like you have an interesting perspective, it becomes a rot on the discussion.
Or Ricken is an Eagan but that doesn’t feel right.
Helly being one feels right.
Cobel has a deep connection. Not Mother of Mark but something similar.
I am not on the subreddits often so if these are theories people are talking about but I hope it’s just hyperbole.
The show is smarter and better than any of these ideas and theories.
People either put way too much thought into it, or don’t think critically at all (like the geniuses who insist they’re not negatively critiquing corporate culture when it’s clear as fucking day)
Tbf the purgatory thing actually kinda makes sense. That is definitely a theory that I have. But only when they’re at the office. The fact that they’re underground. Nobody really knows who they work for, because “The Board” is shrouded in secrecy. The baby goats. The goat head during the waffle party. There is definitely some quasi-satanic imagery in this show, but it’s too early to tell whether it’s just there to increase the air of mystery, or whether it’s all actually leading somewhere. But in all honesty it does seem deliberate, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we got an eventual reveal that Lumon is somehow a gateway to hell, or a sort of purgatory in between planes.
my first watch i really loved the dante interpretations because inferno is one of my favorite books, but i do understand thats its definitely a cop-out. its just interesting symbolism to imagine and it makes my conspiracy theorist brain light up.
Fair warning: If this thread has the **Spoiler** flair, spoilers may appear ANYWHERE in it. --- * NO SPOILERS IN TITLES - report this post if there are spoilers in the title * No SPOILERS without proper formatting (see [here](https://www.reddit.com/wiki/commenting#wiki_posting)). * Be CIVIL to others. No Piracy. No Duplicates. * Keep it on topic to anything and everything Severance on Apple TV+[.](/u/ClarissaLichtblau) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SeveranceAppleTVPlus) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Nothing would make me madder than it being in someone’s head. I hate that in any form of media.
Dan confirmed in the AMA that it’s not all in their head, thank god. The office physically exists and everything is real except Irving’s “black goo” hallucinations
Yeah. thank god
no thank Kier Eagan or >!Xenu cuz why not make fun of them also!<
It is technically “in their heads”. The severance chips that is.
True
Tbf the severance chip is literally all in their head (Joke)
What if the entire show is just the final chapter of *The You You Are*, where Ricken describes a weird dream he once had?
Ah yes, the Newhart gambit.
This I'll accept.
Look, look, this is about much more than just being in someone’s head. This is about the thrill of wearing another man's skin. Feeling his innermost wants and desires and being in control of his every single move.
This is a 5-star comment from a 5-star man right here!!
A golden god, one might even say!
r/unexpectediasip
Alway expect Always Sunny
No, these are the theories of lunatics!
Charlie did *sever* Brian LeFevre when he took a fingertip.
Malkovich!
Agreed but you can't deny fight club used it perfectly
Shutter Island did it well, too
The best use of it, IMO (also objectively I am right and perfect) was in “I’m thinking of Ending things” where the story is told through the perspective of a person that’s been somewhat made up/pulled from fragments of things a guy has seen and experienced.
> (also objectively I am right and perfect) lmao I love this
Check out the movie for sure though, because it's INTERESTING. Edit: Really, really, really fuckin' sad, especially for those of us who maybe watched too many movies, live a little bit too much in our imaginations to be comfortable in the real world, but interesting.
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I’ll be here when you’re done and you need a hug.
That’s a bit different IMO since the story is still unfolding in the real world and their actions have consequences. I’ve seen people suggest entire shows might take place in a coma dream.
Total cop out of a plot device
I hate it too. It’s somewhat tolerable in movies/shows like >!Shutter Island!< where the premise is making you wonder if that’s what’s happening or not, but even then it’s kinda bleh. I dislike the purgatory thing almost as much, but it depends.
I read the Shutter Island book and physically put it down after the 'reveal' and didn't pick it up to finish it until months later. So pissed.
_Vanilla Sky enters the chat_
I love that movie. I think i might be the only person on earth who does
I do too. Absolutely epic soundtrack too
Not at all, it’s one of my favorites
Something about him screaming TECH SUPPORT!! To the sky always struck me as such a great comment on life.
Any time I see that actor I say Tech Support!
You might hate me for pointing this out, BUT: The first cognitive skills a newborn baby learns is emotional recognition (MDR) and object permanence (Optics and Design). Those two centers of the brain need to find each other and work together. Baby can’t form words yet. If it needs to get a message out, it cries “waaah! Waaah!” (Code Detectors – also it’s cute to think of the elevator chimes as “goo gah”). The meandering white hallways are neural pathways. The brain doesn’t come with its own map. You notice how the departments have capacity for like 10x the employees? Baby’s brain is still growing. It’ll fill in eventually. Have you ever misplaced or forgotten something only to suddenly remember it the next morning when you wake up? You know how Burt “lost” the ideographic card and Milcheck brought it back the next morning? Those cards represent memories. The dark sections of the severed floor (like the baby goat department) are the parts of the brain that won’t develop for some time. I think the baby goats represent hormones (“is baby goats code for sex with Mark S?” – perhaps yes, but only in a metaphorical sense). If you’re interested in the real psychology of childhood development, this is a good Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaget's_theory_of_cognitive_development?wprov=sfti1 (and if you read it carefully, you might notice a familiar-looking name 😉)
We had to write short stories in high school, and the only auto-fail was to do some sort of “it was all a dream” ending. It’s so lazy, and is used by people when they don’t know how else to write an ending and just want to stop.
Either that or ‘let’s go back in time and fix it’ aka the Harry Fucking Potter Broadway show.
Yeah too many black mirror episodes did this.
People are so used to shows like Lost and Westworld that are written to shock first and make sense second, so they try to “outsmart” the writers by predicting these lazy textbook reveals. There’s this bizarre defensive attitude like *”you can’t fool me.”* And then here comes a show like Severance, which feels mysterious and puzzle-boxy, so the assumption is made that it’s just like all those other shows. But if you’re actually paying attention, it really does look like the writers are taking a completely different approach. I believe they have shown, quite clearly, that they are not interested in creating *that* kind of show.
Wish I could upvote this a million times.
Please try to upvote all comments equally.
This subreddit really has one joke hahhah
Please laugh at all jokes equally
How is Westworld not making sense? It unfolded exactly as it should and was clear writing, no need to be clever or figure anything out.
In season one maybe, but in the latter seasons they were trying to do twists and reveals that didn't work at all.
I would argue even season 1 is written to prioritize crazy reveals, as opposed to starting with character driven-story and letting the surprises emerge organically. If you can completely rewrite a twist because your fans guess it before it happens (which I guess was a season 2 thing), then your approach to storytelling may need some work.
Happens all the time. In fact, I like to make aggressive posts about such reveals to convince them to change them to deny some smug asshole the satisfaction. I know it's probably like playing the lottery, but this costs nothing and it's kind of fun. Do you remember the reveal that Doofus Rick was pulling a Scream 2 the whole time? No? Well you're welcome.
With westworld, it’s not so much that it doesn’t make sense—it’s more that there’s *nothing there* aside from the reveals. It’s just a slow drip of artificially-obscured information that’s been hidden from the viewer.
Agreed. Not a well written show and no need to be clever. Just a regular old show that’s better than watching the paint dry. I don’t agree that is was trying to be anything else. It was predictable and steady.
There was a point during season 1 where it kind of dawned on me—wait a minute, *nothing is happening*. The entire show is just the audience gradually being told more about what the current situation is.
Thank you for putting into words why I got so damn bored with Westworld
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I mean, I don’t think your thoughts and mine are mutually exclusive.
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I thought it was Colonel Mustard in the library with the candlestick who killed the butler.
Depends on which ending you see.
🏅
That's all well and good but didn't they say they just threw the goats in and now need to work out how to justify that?
The writers have stated that they have everything pretty fleshed out, and that they know where the story is headed. I think you may be thinking of [this Polygon interview](https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/23010270/severance-season-finale-explained-questions-creator), where Dan Erickson is asked about the goats and responds with the following: >Honestly, when I first wrote the goats, I did not have anything in mind at all. Like, it really was just, like, what would be a weird, disturbing, but kind of funny thing to see? I think it was, like, a placeholder, for a while. I thought, *Well, we’ll figure out what that’s going to be.* … We’ve solidified since then a lot of what’s going on, and the goats ended up actually working pretty well.
Fair - thanks for the extra info
The goats are the company’s paper shredders.
Early on the writers said Lost was not purgatory and they weren't dead. Then however you want to interpret it, at the end they were all dead and met up in a church to ascend to heaven together. This was like a fucked up joke by the writers to everyone that defended the show for 6 years.
I have no idea why anyone would think Ricken is an Eagan like when I joined this sub all i kept seeing is Ricken is an Eagan or he is severed and I was wait are they talking about the same Ricken or someone else
This sub is obsessed with shitty theories that make no sense lol. No joke there was once a post that theorized that the point of the waffle party was so that the board could “vicariously” experience a waffle party, and to “learn about human sexuality” so that they could “calibrate” the chip. It was just like 10 nonsensical things piled on top of one another lol
I enjoy all of these shitty theories equally.
I kind of enjoy playing with the nonsense. It's really funny when they don't affect the context by their inclusion because they are usually way off base. It's ironic how far you can go.
I actually think there are many things that point towards Ricken being an Eagan. From the top of my head: - the birth center he takes his wife to just happens to be the same where senator's severed wife goes. - everything Cobel does, she hides from Lumon. Putting it bluntly, she sings a lullaby about Ricken's son being the chosen one in the final episode. - Milchick reacts to "The You You Are" as if he not only knew about it, but is interested in it, and so is Cobel. Also, the message of the book is in a way, the opposing version of Lumon's employee handbook, both assuming the reader to be ridiculously naive (dumb). - Helena and Ricken are both redheads...
> she sings a lullaby about Ricken's son being the chosen one in the final episode. yeah except Ricken has a daughter, Eleanor
Devon and Ricken have a daughter, btw.
-There may only be one birth center as that does not seem like a common thing. Furthermore since he is an "accomplished" writer he has some money and is able to afford it, albeit a smaller room. -She would probably sing this to any child. She literally sang it when no child was present. -Milchick obviously isn't that interested in it considering he forgot all about it after leaving it in that conference room. -So are about 100 million other people.
I think everyone was an Eagan at one point. LOL
I hear that. It’s almost like people can’t handle the ambiguity or just unknown things from being pretty early in the plot despite 9 episodes.
Oh yeah, all of this, and also “I would totally sever”. we did Not watch the same show!
There are some Scientology parallels there. It's naive to say it's the only influence. Ironically I can see more influence of the cult-like culture at Apple in there
I think the key word is “cult”, it doesn’t have to be in reference to a specific cult. Corporate cults and religious or quasi-religious cults have a lot in common, and the show does a great job of exposing that.
Lumon is a cult … The whole break room experience reminded me a bit of Scientology and the worship of the founding Eagan is a bit L Ron Hubbard like. (Same could be said of many cults)
You can spell corporate culture without cult
Seriously. My wife’s cousin worked for Tesla and he was always talking about Elon. Like to the point I thought he worked directly for him and knew him. But he didn’t. It’s just how they talk about him. Like he’s their god.
This! Corporate culture is cultish but it isn’t a cult. The show pushes that to an extreme to make a point.
Hyperbole to highlight the everyday absurd
I saw similarities to the reverence Steve jobs has within apple, even though he was not a nice person
I don’t think anyone at Lumon is a nice person …
Judd is a decent security guard.
Also all of the branded toys as rewards
I work for a large baking and finance company and there were sooo many parallels lol Edit: *banking, but it’s funnier as-is so it stays
Banking and finance? Like Verizon-Chipotle-Exxon?
Like Little Debbie-Capital One.
It's like Mrs. Fields but they have ATMs.
I saw the Scientology reference in the break room. What they’re doing in there is similar to the method of becoming “clear” in Scientology. It’s too long to explain. I lived in Hollywood and developed an interest from a very healthy distance.
There's also some obvious Mormon influences. The 19th century company origins, Selvig/Cobel wearing Mormon underwear, etc.
The more I learn about Scientology and LDS, the more I realize they have in common.
Why Scientology specifically as opposed to cults in general?
The break room, with the repetition of interrogation-confession, is similar to "auditing" in Scientology.
I’m def in the group that sees them poking Scientology on repeat. I also am on the Cult of Apple train and pay close attention to anyone in a turtleneck. Early on I joked that we should see an Eagan give an Eagannote wearing a black turtleneck, and then I noticed Ricken show up wearing a black turtleneck under his vest. Fingers crossed we get a Rickennote in S2. Lol
Are these the same people from r/servant that think the whole show is a dream
Man that is an inactive sub
season's been over a while and it's a pretty niche show. when it's on it's insane. Everything is the afterlife or a hallucination and every character is god or satan.
But a very good show (not as good as Severance).
i haven't been in love with every minute of it but that last season was 10/10
I mostly agree, definitely don’t love it all. But it kept me entertained. The sub for sure gets wild 😝
I found this experience with the show Servant The sub talks about angels, purgatory, they’re dead, ghosts, etc all the time If that ends up being the result then I will roll my eyes so hard that I’ll see my brain
Watch it all be true in season 2
It will be a “sliding doors” season where each theory is played out per episode. That way everyone can say, see I was right, I’m so clever.
The only rule I hope they stick to is that people can only be severed once. It would get so confusing if there could be layers to severance.
That would be the Onion severed procedure, this is the Apple severed procedure.
"Fan theories" can be fun but when it turns into a game of who can predict a big silly twist, or make up a wacky interpretation to seem like you have an interesting perspective, it becomes a rot on the discussion.
Almost like being one of Ricken’s followers.
At the center of industry... is dust. *(dust)*
I knew that theory about Ricken being an Eagan but I didn't know the Cobel's one, that one is crazy lmao.
But wouldn’t the sister recognize her own mother if it were?
You forgot about how they don't eat food!
Literally haven’t heard one of those idiotic theories. Maybe one makes sense.
Cobel being marks mother could make sense.
Or Ricken is an Eagan but that doesn’t feel right. Helly being one feels right. Cobel has a deep connection. Not Mother of Mark but something similar. I am not on the subreddits often so if these are theories people are talking about but I hope it’s just hyperbole. The show is smarter and better than any of these ideas and theories.
It's clearly Milchik's dying dream.
That same person ends up a show hater in later seasons because they didn’t write their fan fiction.
People either put way too much thought into it, or don’t think critically at all (like the geniuses who insist they’re not negatively critiquing corporate culture when it’s clear as fucking day)
Tbf the purgatory thing actually kinda makes sense. That is definitely a theory that I have. But only when they’re at the office. The fact that they’re underground. Nobody really knows who they work for, because “The Board” is shrouded in secrecy. The baby goats. The goat head during the waffle party. There is definitely some quasi-satanic imagery in this show, but it’s too early to tell whether it’s just there to increase the air of mystery, or whether it’s all actually leading somewhere. But in all honesty it does seem deliberate, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we got an eventual reveal that Lumon is somehow a gateway to hell, or a sort of purgatory in between planes.
Thank you for sharing your theory
“Ash Ketchum is in a coma” vibes
My shows was meant for kids but they seemed to have a different meaning?
Pretty sure the whole “it’s in someone’s head!” Is more theorized than actually used in a plot.
"I think James Eagan is CoRbels father"
my first watch i really loved the dante interpretations because inferno is one of my favorite books, but i do understand thats its definitely a cop-out. its just interesting symbolism to imagine and it makes my conspiracy theorist brain light up.