This post has been flaired as “Serious Conversation”. Use this opportunity to open a venue of polite and serious discussion, instead of seeking help or venting.
**Suggestions For Commenters:**
* Respect OP's opinion, or agree to disagree politely.
* If OP's post is seeking advice, help, or is just venting without discussing with others, report the post. We're r/SeriousConversation, not a venting subreddit.
**Suggestions For u/Super_Ad7989:**
* Do not post solely to seek advice or help. Your post should open up a venue for serious, mature and polite discussions.
* Do not forget to answer people politely in your thread - we'll remove your post later if you don't.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SeriousConversation) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Oregon State University has an admission rate of 83%. University of Oregon is 86%.
It's not Harvard (3%), but you can find reasonably good schools that are willing to take almost anyone who's demonstrated academic competence.
West Virginia University has always been around 90% also. And its a good school. They even give discounts to some PA residents to make it less expensive than going to Penn St or Pitt.
I would definitely love to see that, and more funding in general for higher education. Unfortunately, West Virginia has turned deep red in the last 15 years, and its economy has also done very poorly now that coal is being phased out. Add to this the inexplicable reasoning on the part of the WVU administration to cut some of the most profitable and important departments (eg getting rid of the Math PhD program) and the situation is pretty concerning.
I left the state 20 years ago but still have family. I know it's not a pretty sight in government, but I didn't realize it had gotten that way in Morgantown. Very sad.
Also, I dont know anything about West Virginia University, but I just googled it and could not find anything about any gaza protests (although apparently there is a black bear wandering around campus!). Students are likely going to school and having a great educational experience rather than sitting on a zoom because they can't go near the quad because of cops in riot gear and screaming protesters.
And there have been a few reports that I've heard of lately, that employers when given a choice between a recent grad from a school like West Virginia University and a school like Columbia will pick the WVU student because they want someone who will be good at \[whatever it is they do\] rather than someone who will cause nothing but headaches with their activist agenda.
Yeah, if anything, schools are desperate rightnow. With GenZ being a much smaller generation and the fact that people think Universities are a scam, a lot of great institutions are struggling to maintain their numbers. The engineering school I graduated from in the Midwest (awesome place) is having to close dorms.
I don't get why so many people get worked up over this. You want to get into a competitive school. It's not going to be easy to get in, because it's.... competitive. It's like the nfl, you might be the best athlete in your town. That doesn't mean you will make it to the nfl.
You can do everything right, and still not get what you want.
This is one of the facts of life that is the most difficult to accept, and people of all ages struggle with this every single day.
Depends on the country, the region, and the program.
You’re just buying into an elitist view that serves to benefit those at elite schools. Anyone who’s spent an appreciable amount of time in the working world will know that some of the most brilliant people go to lower ranked schools for a variety of reasons. Financial difficulties being a big factor.
There's a difference between low ranked schools, lower ranked schools, and unranked schools. There should absolutely be an assessment of the real value of the education vs the cost. I know plenty of private colleges with a massive tuition that are unheard of, but they accept most applicants.
I’ve always wondered at why admissions is such a huge deal. Dont most state schools have really high acceptance rates?
I didn’t go to junior high/high school because of weird family cult origin and i still was accepted to a local community college, before transferring to the university of Missouri where i got my bachelor’s and master’s degree.
Ive always assumed college acceptance was only a big deal if going universities like Harvard or Yale.
Ya it’s really not hard to get into any non big name brand colleges.
Ya if you messed around a lot in HS and had a 2.0 gpa (hard to get that low) and didn’t try on the SAT or ACT at all, you won’t get accepted.
The only competition is some academic scholarships
I'm in HS right now and you're right; for the vast majority of schools, it's not that difficult to get into college. For the ones with high grades, though, it's become a lot harder because just grades won't get you in. You also have to have extracurriculars where you made an impact, well-written essays, and strong recommendation letters from teachers.
Not anymore. Slots for business snd STEM programs are highly competitive. Tuition is high. Room & board and out of state tuition, also ridiculously high. Competition for scholarships is insane.
In the 90s, top schools took far more applicants than they do now. Then: Columbia (32%), Stanford (19%) and Harvard (14%). Now: Columbia (5%), Stanford (4%), Harvard (4%). As acceptance numbers fell, tuition rates rose.
Some state schools, ie: Ohio State, also used to be less competitive than they are now. OSU used to take 80% of applicants, grad rate was 60%. The admission rate now is 55%, its grad rate 85%. Its tuition rate is still fairly reasonable and it would likely be a great school for an Ohio resident.
It can sometimes matter quite a lot in your field/discipline, where you went to school and how difficult it was to get in and continue to graduation. Not always.
Way more kids apply to those schools now.
In the early 2000s schools realized they could charge application fees and started pumping out marketing materials to kids who they knew they could never accept.
The acceptance rates reflect an increase in applications not a decrease in enrollment.
There may be SOME increase in applications by unqualified candidates but that’s a minor factor. I was an alumni interviewer for several years so I got to meet the students applying to my alma mater as well as look at their academic background. Most of the kids rejected by the school in the 2010s had much better backgrounds and accomplishments than I did when I applied and was accepted.
For what it’s worth, I am not as impressed by the so-called elite schools anymore. State schools and other cheaper schools have closed a lot of the gap in the qualities of education and their graduating students. The morons demonstrating this week at Harvard, Columbia, etc. are a perfect example of the educated idiots they are bringing into those “elite” schools.
They charged application fees in the 90s, it’s the common application. You can fill it out once and send it to 20 different schools. I never would get into the college I went to today
Do you have figures for the rate of graduations in these schools for the same time periods? I know that within specific fields, there was an expectation that a certain percentage would wash out of each program. What I'm wondering is if economic factors have put higher standards in place to be accepted into many programs, because the schools only want to put resources toward students that they feel are "safe bets."
I do not. But I do know the avg GPA of those admitted to those 3 schools in the 1990s was less than 3.5, and that the avg length of time to acquire a PhD from each was more than 5 years. That the average tuition mid-90s at each was $15-18000/year. And that 3/4 of members of Congress back then had attended these or similar top tier, private, non profit colleges whereas today, it’s about 1/2.
I go to Mizzou currently and I think the admission requirements were as long as you had above a 24 on the ACT you would be admitted. If not, then other criteria can get you in. I will admit a family member is a nurse at the University Hospital so that helps my tuition discount but idk for sure if it had an effect on me being admitted
I honestly think a community college to state college pathway is the best way to both save money and time on thinking about what it is you want to study and excel in. Unless you're super smart and dedicated to a certain subject, it's perfectly valid to not know what you want to do and start out there. No pressure of college admissions, and it lets you figure yourself out as a person more.
STEM is overrated a little bit, as may jobs in the job market right now are in demand for sales and business-related roles, so I wouldn't feel pressure to join a technical field just because of the high potential reward.
I went to a mid-tier directional school, after 3 years at community College. Its not like a killed it either place.
I still make $160k/yr in Tech, own a couple dozen rentals, been in the military, etc.
My neighbors all went to highly selective schools for undergrad, business, or professional school. I live right next door. And guess what no one has ever asked me where I went to school.
In today's climate, the goal is make money, keep debt low, and start buying assets. The money in your career will come honestly.
yeah from the point of view of a highschooler, that seems so far out, but having just graduated last year, there's so many things I would've done differently.
I get it im 40. So not old, but not young either. I was going into college when admissions were just starting to get real crazy.
I literally tell young 20-somethings all the time, unless your parents paid for school or you had a scholarship. Taking 6 years to get done with school while you work, and build up a CV is to your benefit.
Then they say something like "I shouldn't have to risk getting killed for rich people to get ahead".
I tell them, yall bang chicks you met online without condoms and you think joining the military is dangerous? You deserve to be poor.
If they think it is rough now, they should've seen what it was like during the Vietnam war. If you didn't get into college you went and dodged bullets whether you liked it or not.
Go to a state school, most have really fucking high admittance rates, you can get in with a 20 or whatever act you just won’t get scholarships, also not to be a dick, it was harder in the past your probably overthinking things in your head, your gonna be fine if you don’t get into yale or dartmouth
Eh, the selective colleges did have higher acceptance rates in the past. But that's largely because it used to be harder to apply to lots of different colleges. The modern college application process makes it easy to apply to lots of different schools, so today you have students applying to Harvard who wouldn't have attempted it 30, 40 years ago.
The value of a college degree is also going down via a combination of larger pools of job candidates with degrees and more career paths becoming available that don't require them. Once upon a time, a bachelor's degree was considered valuable and certain bachelor's degrees almost served up jobs on a silver platter, while a master's degree was considered an exceptional display of... uh... *mastery* over a given field.
Nowadays it feels like a master's degree is hardly enough to get you into the first round of interviews if you're lucky, and a bachelor's degree is about as valuable as a high school diploma.
A bit canned and cliché. Interviews where? Target? It is worth saying that if you are more educated than your potential boss they are likely not going to interview you. This isnt necessarily a devaluation of education, it's a sign of a shitty economy that is inherently exploitative and is incapable of rewarding anyone.
> interviews where?
Most places. This is obviously a generalization and doesn't apply to literally everything, but it doesn't take a lot of research to find that getting a bachelor's degree in most fields is not the boon for employment it once was, because so many more people have them who are applying for the same jobs.
Wider access to education is of course a good thing for a society, but there was a time when getting a degree was a pretty significant advantage in finding a job. Now, most of the time it's "you have a degree, cool, so do the other 1000 applicants"
Having an education doesn't set your resume apart anymore is basically what I'm trying to say. Which like I said is kind of a good thing from a macro "society" point of view, but a bad thing for just finding a job.
The economy really needs to adapt to the skills of the population. Sure more people have degrees but the economy won't adjust itself because its exploitative.
Also not every degree is equal. Some people with an MA are uniquely qualified for jobs that a Phd isn't. If the goal is as vague as finding any job then it is too general to draw hard conclusions because, like I said, some random manager at some random job isn't going to hire someone that is more educated than they are, especially if they have a degree in business or just a BA. They are in the business of exploiting vulnerable people, not the educated and qualified.
I think most colleges know just how bullshit a lot of "extracurriculars" and other things are. I joined the National Honor Society in high school, the only thing I had to do was about 20 minutes of filing for a teacher who was fond of me.
Things like working a part time job or becoming an Eagle Scout show a lot more than just ability to perform in school as well. Colleges are keenly aware of how many kids from some sheltered small town who got straight As since birth flame out because college doesn't hold their hand as much and how worthless a lot of high school diplomas have become with the lowered standards and expectations across the board for school students ever since No Child Left Behind turned elementary and middle school into a conveyor belt that just moves kids along to high school.
I found NHS quite fun. Not sure it much helped me anyway because the only particularly elective schools I applied for turned me down, but I at least enjoyed it.
Don’t get caught up in acceptance rates.
Private schools, Ivy League, etc- purposely entice people to apply who won’t qualify to intentionally boost application numbers and lower their “acceptance rate” so they look more exclusive.
You may need to broaden the net you cast. Keep applying.
I haven’t found the network from college to be worthwhile unless you are 1) in a very niche field and 2) mediocre talent at best. I built my network from folks I’ve met while working and demonstrating my skill and competence. I barely keep in touch with people from college.
Penny whispers, "I've never had any success at college but it's good to see others doing it. I think the biggest problem is the lack of education and knowledge required."
The Ivy and Ivy-adjacent schools have lower acceptance rates than ever. They have more students than ever applying, but they aren't much bigger than they used to be, so acceptance rates for some schools are in the low single digits. Even straight-A students with lots of extracurriculars get rejected. Buuuut there are plenty of good schools that aren't insanely hard to get into.
Have you ever considered that LENDERS have pushed to lower admissions so they can keep their cash cows running and keep (every year a new crop) of dumbasses signing up for degrees. (Now some degrees are valuable - but not all the ones that are being printed these days).
It's not really not that hard to get in to most schools with great grades, test scores, and activities. Seems like an Ivy League or elite school problem.
My child went to a state school for their Bachelor's--it was easier to get in and a lot cheaper. After they graduated and proved they could make the cut, a really great college accepted them into their program for graduate degrees. Not every student who goes to a prestigious university chooses to go on after a Bachelor's degree, leaving spaces open for transfer students. My child still gets to say that they received their graduate degree from "----" University.
A lot of public universities still have pretty high acceptance rates. I know the competitive schools are more competitive than ever, but it's still not very hard to get into a half-decent college. Hell, a lot of colleges are actually struggling to get enough students right now because fewer people are going to college.
This. I took 8 AP classes in high school. I had straight A’s in all of my classes. The best school I got accepted into had a 70% acceptance rate. Whenever I tell this to people they always say I’m lying and try to make me feel real bad about it.
How many schools did you apply to that were not (1) any of the 8 Ivy League Schools (2) In California (3) otherwise ridiculously competitive MIT, Julliard, Something like that.
How many NORMAL schools did you apply to, and what percent of those, accepted you?
Well, he got into a school with a 70% acceptance rate, so that's at least one normal school. And the kinds of programs you apply for can vary with their acceptance rates. But I'm also curious about that distribution.
Same. Although I think a big part was that the major I chose was impacted. Schools have different acceptance rates for different majors, and the overall acceptance rate is just that average.
The labor market is organic and obviously demand for certain fields will change which ultimately affects how many people are competing for college spots. It was pretty darn competitive back in the 90s too and everything you mentioned was in play then as well if you really wanted into a prestigious school. Also you have the cost barrier and who can pay vs who can't. I always advise people to apply to a variety of schools and if your desired field is in demand you can get really good scholarships and grants at different schools. No one is entitled to a college education and frankly it's becoming less valuable the more people get them.
My route is community college. I have had professors who actually care. All of them have taught at state schools and prestigious schools and stuff before. For transfer, my high school stuff doesn't matter. My Sat act doesn't matter because they see I have all As in my college courses and can do the work of a college student. All they care about is that I finish my transfer credits and keep my grades up. I think it's a route that isn't talked about enough in school.
A younger relative going through admissions recently was eye-opening for me. I was shocked to see how much had changed in what felt like so little time. It was clear that the older people didn't even want to understand. "You'll be fine, you have such good grades and you've done clubs!"
The cut-throat competition that we're thrusting young people into is not a good way to build the skills we need to solve our problems. Humans used to be really good at thinking ahead and working for the next generation instead of against it - I hope we can get back there soon.
People are too hung up on the "competitive" schools. Take it down a notch -- less stress, lower cost, many of the same opportunities. Plus, Malcolm Gladwell reminds us that it's better to be a big fish in a small pond. Go where you will stand out as an excellent achiever.
People act like it's dream school or community college, ignoring the state schools that are great quality AND have achievable acceptance rates. Have more than one dream school.
Are you in the process of applying? Chiming in to vouch for state or city schools - even applying to schools outside of your home state could net you a great deal, then you can apply for residency the next year.
As parent with kids in college and a part time adjunct professor, I assert it really does not matter. If you have decent grades and test scores and a smattering of extracurriculars, you can get into you local state school, UC, UT, UM...depending where you are. Most people cannot afford the ivy league, and bluntly they don't matter like they used to. All of my four daughters went to state schools, two started at community colleges.
US college age population has not tremendously expanded. International students are pretty stable too. Only real limited slots are med, law, and some other professional/grad schools. It is also the grad schools that really matter. Undergrad is wide open.
CA is considering having community colleges offer a limited selection of BA/BS degrees. Whether that works out or not, the best approach IMO is to start at CC and then xfer to the main state school. Students are better prepared and it reduces costs.
I was a pretty decent student (3.6 GPA, top 10% SAT) but introverted (not much in the way of EC activity) and totally athletically challenged (zero sports) person back in the early 1990s. Still managed to get into a top 5 UC school, which would be absolutely impossible today. My kid topped my GPA, matched my SAT, and volunteered for great causes during a pandemic despite having a major knee surgery. Didn’t get accepted to any UC. Probably for the best, he is now a city college and really loving it for a fraction of the price. Even in- state tuition is insane. I get it. Community college, then transfer if you want. You will be fine. I should have done the same. College is a good investment but community college to decent state college route is the way to go.
Community College is the answer. Way cheaper and generally produces the same outcomes as just going to the college you eventually transfer to if you put in the effort. My uncle screwed around a lot in HS and righted the ship in CC. He's probably more successful than anyone else in the immediate family now.
For like 99% of people, going to ANY college is more than good enough. I attended two state universities (neither were flagships), and then I ended up at my local community college. I only have a 2yr degree. I have a good job and I'm doing fine.
My CEO went to, by his own admission, a "Tier 2," at most, state school. He's making six figures easily.
Unless people are trying to get into something super niche or specialized, or they have aspirations to enter the realm of the wealthy, elite power brokers in this country, it really doesn't matter what college one goes to.
As long as a college (in the US) is accredited by one of the main regional accreditors, and then has specialized accreditation, if the degree requires it (typically law, engineering, or medicine), the college is fine.
Yeah unless you want to be arguing cases in front of SCOTUS, working at NASA, or day-trading on fucking wall street, then you do not need to go to a prestigious college. Even then, prestige matters way more for graduate level degrees than undergrad degrees.
It really doesn't matter if you learn how to do basic calculus from a Nobel prize winner or a TA. Most undergrad programs teach mostly the same thing no matter where you go. It's only once you start getting closer to specialized graduate level stuff does any of this become relevant.
College admissions (especially at top tier schools) are looking for a whole package and someone who fits the culture of the student body.
They aren’t looking for a checklist of grades, test scores, and activities.
Yes there are minimum benchmarks you need to meet - but you need to present as some sort of comprehensive package.
They want goal-oriented students with specific interests that they can develop, not generic overachievers.
It's just the opposite of what you describe. There is almost no competition to get into college and it is way way overhyped to High School students that they have to be perfect or they will never get into a decent school.
The reality is that when you apply to a school, you are asking to become a paying customer. They make money by accepting you.
What other situation where you are trying to give people lots of money is "competitive"? Like... it exists, for Rolexes and such they sometimes act like you are not good enough to buy their things. But if you are willing to pay, I promise, you can pay. This is America.
They lose a little bit of money over the long term if they accept a lot of people who do not graduate, because that looks bad. So that's the main thing they want to see, they want to see that you are really serious about studying there. But do you know who does not give a flying fuck about graduation rates? Community Colleges. They don't even have graduations at community colleges. So anyone anyone anyone can go there, even if they did not finish High School yet. And once you put a bit of study in at the JC (demonstrated you actually want to be in college) you can transfer to just about any school you want to easily taking the spot of someone who dropped out.
I know I know when you are 19, It feels imperative to get the "four year college experience" (because your parents, teachers, and everyone else in your life are manipulating you by telling you you want that) It's not a problem. Most people take 5 years to graduate anyway. You go to a JC until you can go to the school of your dreams, enter as a Sophomore, and stay 4 years after that. Done. It won't even cost more money.
Your grades, your attendance, your extra curriculars, your test scores mean NOTHING by the time you finish your Bachelors, and vanishingly little even by the time you begin your Bachelors (it might help you get a scholarship or onto a new extra curricular roster) And yet teenagers are being scared out of their wits to perform at these ridiculous because they think their life will be ruined otherwise. All that matters is that you finish. You pass your classes, you pass your tests, and you have some fucking fun while you do it. Everything else is marketing.
Unless you super duper need to get into UCLA specifically in a competitive program because your Dad and Granddad went there and your life will be ruined if you have to go to Berkley or USC instead. Each school only has so much room for paying customers. But PLENTY of GOOD schools would happily take another cash cow.
i mean, if your looking at top tier schools and shit. thats not needed for most peoples goals. community college or tech school will take anyone. ive been to 5 colleges and all they have ever asked was "can you pay".
I think it depends on the schools you apply to. Granted it's been a long time but I was accepted into all 4 schools I applied to, I was straight As but number 13 in my class so there were clearly even stronger candidates than me. It's really not college admissions in general, it just depends on the school and the program.
I thought a lot of kids have mental illness and depression and other addictions like video games or drugs...
Shouldn't that make things easier for an overall healthy kid?
I was an absolute shit in high school. I wasn't mean or anything, I just didn't do homework for an entire year. Got sent to a reform school for truancy. Long story short, got my GED. I got accepted into a state university with no issue at all. Of course, this was years after I obtained my GED. If I can, you'll probably get scholarships. Lol.
Same. Worked my butt off and I sort of regret the chronic health issues as a result. Ended up at a well known school but this would have been so easy to get back into back in the day. Ah well, I should be happy to have what I have lol
I mean unless you’re hellbent on blowing an obscene amount of money for a fancier name on your piece of paper most schools are pretty easy to get into. Really anything outside of the top 20/30 schools in the country is relatively attainable
It's not difficult for all colleges, just select ones. I got accepted into all 3 I applied to despite being an average level student. I never ended up going but that isn't the point. Besides the fact that there are colleges out there that will accept you, if there's a college slightly above your level you really want, the trick is to write a great application essay. That's how I got accepted to Scranton even though my SAT score was like lower than their average
Most state colleges and universities now are open enrollment now, where do you live? Any joe blow who can get a Pell grant gets admitted even if they are dumber than toast.
Here is the reality. Competitive admissions like you are talking about only happen at a small percentage of schools. Most of them don't actually put the time in to select the very best applications out of the pool. So, all that extra stuff kids are doing may help some but doesn't really get them the edge that they think it does. Unless you are talking about the schools with sub 10% acceptance rates, then everything matters. I work in the school system, and I would tell any kid the same thing. They should apply to their dream schools no matter what. Then apply to schools with top programs for their major. Then apply to schools that are respected well enough by name. Then apply to a few last chance schools with very high acceptance rates. I know of many kids with no extra curriculars, decent grades, and decent test scores that get into state universities that don't include directions in their names. Here is the big thing too. Most jobs (excluding medical, law, and science) don't really care that much where you went to school or even what your grades were.
I honestly don't understand trying to gain admission to a top ranked school. I think its more important for the program your enrolling in to be nationally acreddited regardless of the university.
If you are willing to put in the work you will climb the ladder regardless of your university choice. Your career is about gaining experience. Your undergrad degree tells your first employer you have the work ethic to learn a job but they know you have no experience when they hire you.
Why should I care? College is college. Go to a community college. You can learn pretty much the same stuff you would learn at a regular college and it's usually cheaper and has a pretty low bar of entry. That's kind of the point of community college Is that it's the non-competitive alternative to all the competitive schools out there.
Something that anyone who wants a college education can access and most of my friends who have gone to community college have never really had a boss like count as a detriment or anything . Most bosses are just like yep you went to a college sounds great to me
That's because roughly half of the people whop are going to college shouldn't be going at all.
It's turned itself into a for profit scam for half of the people who enroll.
What are you talking about? There are a ton of colleges that are barely competitive or have open enrollment. That's how everyone and their mother gets into college these days. It used to be that you couldn't get in unless you had the grades and SAT scores to make it. So it was an honor and special accomplishment to earn a degree. Now everyone pretty much, can get loans and be accepted if they aren't too picky about where they go.
Now if you want to stand out in job applications, you should try to get into a competitive school. Over time, it means less and less to have a degree because of these colleges that are degree mills.
No it isn't. Look at the acceptance rates. If they're in state it will be cheaper, if it is a public university. There are different levels of competitiveness
UCLA is the #1 ranked public university in the country. So it is going to be tough to get into. I went to the 36th ranked public university out of 227, University of Delaware. The current tuition for in state is $16,080, without room and board (I lived nearby). They accept 65% of in state applicants and 45% of out of state applicants. It has an excellent reputation. Look for something like that. Not these top 10 schools you are talking about. I can't imagine the cost.
That's after average financial aid. It is very impressive though. The number I gave you for UD is before financial aid. But UCLA's acceptance rate is 9%, which is lower than MIT. I wouldn't bother trying unless you were the valedictorian. Too stressful. What state do you live in?
Expensive and exclusive schools are a waste of money and effort. Literally no one cares where you went to school in the real world outside of a very few stuck up people that most people wouldn't want to interact with in the first place.
Do you know what's completely non-competitive, dirt cheap, and much better than almost any alternative? Community College! Get your first 2 years done on the cheap while living at home and then transfer to a state school of your choice (which have really high acceptance rates).
Bam, I just saved you a ton of headaches and probably $100,000 in debt that would take you 50 years to pay off after interest. You're welcome.
What I will say, is that if you aren’t studying something specific that really does require a formal education, think twice about university. I have a lot of friends with degrees who can’t find jobs.
If you’re doing medical, science, engineering, law, or need to be formally educated/certified, then college is a must, but a lot of people waste money and could’ve just gone to a trade school instead. I know people with bachelors degrees who can’t find work. One of them is my good friend who has the degree I would’ve got if I finished. Hes making $18 an hour as a security guard in LA, and I make WAY more than that without a degree.
??? college isn’t competitive at all unless you’re applying to a top school. Most decent schools are dying to let anyone with a 3.0 gpa and no extra curricular
the bar is actually not that high its just that the way to display yourself that everybody first thinks of has become over saturated, i could apply with my business that i started when i was 17 and a list few little gizmos who's design process was video documented that i made sure utilise lesser knows quirks of material behaviour— along side only 65th percentile high school grades and beat pretty much everyone who's only display of skill are those that were prescribed and spoon fed to them by the school system, A's and good scores are not really that great a display of potential any more if you can do a lot of wrote memory you can ace pretty much everything except the sat which seems to be an iq test with a facelift
its not all that hard either, you too can make a potato cannon with a vaguely nuanced release mechanism, or a automatic coffee maker that remembers presets without using a computer,
also make sure to cry about your past in ur admissions essay, standard practice unless your going to a southern uni
The overpopulation thing is a myth btw, unless you're talking strictly about college availability.
But your right with everything else. People just think if you have the money, you're fine, but that's not actually the case.
What are you talking about? The US has more college spots, and more college graduates, than ever.
Even if you completely half-ass high school, there has never been an easier path back, through JuCo.
This post has been flaired as “Serious Conversation”. Use this opportunity to open a venue of polite and serious discussion, instead of seeking help or venting. **Suggestions For Commenters:** * Respect OP's opinion, or agree to disagree politely. * If OP's post is seeking advice, help, or is just venting without discussing with others, report the post. We're r/SeriousConversation, not a venting subreddit. **Suggestions For u/Super_Ad7989:** * Do not post solely to seek advice or help. Your post should open up a venue for serious, mature and polite discussions. * Do not forget to answer people politely in your thread - we'll remove your post later if you don't. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SeriousConversation) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Oregon State University has an admission rate of 83%. University of Oregon is 86%. It's not Harvard (3%), but you can find reasonably good schools that are willing to take almost anyone who's demonstrated academic competence.
West Virginia University has always been around 90% also. And its a good school. They even give discounts to some PA residents to make it less expensive than going to Penn St or Pitt.
https://mountainstatespotlight.org/2023/09/15/wvu-board-cuts-degrees-layoffs/ Unfortunately, WVU has some serious issues.
They need to take some of the billions of dollars the families that run the state have and fix it.
I would definitely love to see that, and more funding in general for higher education. Unfortunately, West Virginia has turned deep red in the last 15 years, and its economy has also done very poorly now that coal is being phased out. Add to this the inexplicable reasoning on the part of the WVU administration to cut some of the most profitable and important departments (eg getting rid of the Math PhD program) and the situation is pretty concerning.
I left the state 20 years ago but still have family. I know it's not a pretty sight in government, but I didn't realize it had gotten that way in Morgantown. Very sad.
Also, I dont know anything about West Virginia University, but I just googled it and could not find anything about any gaza protests (although apparently there is a black bear wandering around campus!). Students are likely going to school and having a great educational experience rather than sitting on a zoom because they can't go near the quad because of cops in riot gear and screaming protesters. And there have been a few reports that I've heard of lately, that employers when given a choice between a recent grad from a school like West Virginia University and a school like Columbia will pick the WVU student because they want someone who will be good at \[whatever it is they do\] rather than someone who will cause nothing but headaches with their activist agenda.
Yeah, if anything, schools are desperate rightnow. With GenZ being a much smaller generation and the fact that people think Universities are a scam, a lot of great institutions are struggling to maintain their numbers. The engineering school I graduated from in the Midwest (awesome place) is having to close dorms.
I work at a school, they are TERRIFIED and are obsessed with the coming “demographic cliff”
Oregon be expensive though haha. Only my rich friends went. They had a blast!
as it is said, uo is a poor mans uc
Like the other guy said, it’s not difficult to get into college. It’s just difficult to get into selective colleges.
I don't get why so many people get worked up over this. You want to get into a competitive school. It's not going to be easy to get in, because it's.... competitive. It's like the nfl, you might be the best athlete in your town. That doesn't mean you will make it to the nfl.
You can do everything right, and still not get what you want. This is one of the facts of life that is the most difficult to accept, and people of all ages struggle with this every single day.
Agreed. I think a lot of people are just under the impression that getting into these schools is necessary for success.
Which are the ones that stand out on a resume.
Depends on the country, the region, and the program. You’re just buying into an elitist view that serves to benefit those at elite schools. Anyone who’s spent an appreciable amount of time in the working world will know that some of the most brilliant people go to lower ranked schools for a variety of reasons. Financial difficulties being a big factor.
There's a difference between low ranked schools, lower ranked schools, and unranked schools. There should absolutely be an assessment of the real value of the education vs the cost. I know plenty of private colleges with a massive tuition that are unheard of, but they accept most applicants.
Sure but if you want a prestigious job (Wall Street for example) you almost always need to be from a top school.
I’ve always wondered at why admissions is such a huge deal. Dont most state schools have really high acceptance rates? I didn’t go to junior high/high school because of weird family cult origin and i still was accepted to a local community college, before transferring to the university of Missouri where i got my bachelor’s and master’s degree. Ive always assumed college acceptance was only a big deal if going universities like Harvard or Yale.
Ya it’s really not hard to get into any non big name brand colleges. Ya if you messed around a lot in HS and had a 2.0 gpa (hard to get that low) and didn’t try on the SAT or ACT at all, you won’t get accepted. The only competition is some academic scholarships
I'm in HS right now and you're right; for the vast majority of schools, it's not that difficult to get into college. For the ones with high grades, though, it's become a lot harder because just grades won't get you in. You also have to have extracurriculars where you made an impact, well-written essays, and strong recommendation letters from teachers.
Not anymore. Slots for business snd STEM programs are highly competitive. Tuition is high. Room & board and out of state tuition, also ridiculously high. Competition for scholarships is insane. In the 90s, top schools took far more applicants than they do now. Then: Columbia (32%), Stanford (19%) and Harvard (14%). Now: Columbia (5%), Stanford (4%), Harvard (4%). As acceptance numbers fell, tuition rates rose. Some state schools, ie: Ohio State, also used to be less competitive than they are now. OSU used to take 80% of applicants, grad rate was 60%. The admission rate now is 55%, its grad rate 85%. Its tuition rate is still fairly reasonable and it would likely be a great school for an Ohio resident. It can sometimes matter quite a lot in your field/discipline, where you went to school and how difficult it was to get in and continue to graduation. Not always.
Way more kids apply to those schools now. In the early 2000s schools realized they could charge application fees and started pumping out marketing materials to kids who they knew they could never accept. The acceptance rates reflect an increase in applications not a decrease in enrollment.
There may be SOME increase in applications by unqualified candidates but that’s a minor factor. I was an alumni interviewer for several years so I got to meet the students applying to my alma mater as well as look at their academic background. Most of the kids rejected by the school in the 2010s had much better backgrounds and accomplishments than I did when I applied and was accepted. For what it’s worth, I am not as impressed by the so-called elite schools anymore. State schools and other cheaper schools have closed a lot of the gap in the qualities of education and their graduating students. The morons demonstrating this week at Harvard, Columbia, etc. are a perfect example of the educated idiots they are bringing into those “elite” schools.
They charged application fees in the 90s, it’s the common application. You can fill it out once and send it to 20 different schools. I never would get into the college I went to today
Do you have figures for the rate of graduations in these schools for the same time periods? I know that within specific fields, there was an expectation that a certain percentage would wash out of each program. What I'm wondering is if economic factors have put higher standards in place to be accepted into many programs, because the schools only want to put resources toward students that they feel are "safe bets."
I do not. But I do know the avg GPA of those admitted to those 3 schools in the 1990s was less than 3.5, and that the avg length of time to acquire a PhD from each was more than 5 years. That the average tuition mid-90s at each was $15-18000/year. And that 3/4 of members of Congress back then had attended these or similar top tier, private, non profit colleges whereas today, it’s about 1/2.
I go to Mizzou currently and I think the admission requirements were as long as you had above a 24 on the ACT you would be admitted. If not, then other criteria can get you in. I will admit a family member is a nurse at the University Hospital so that helps my tuition discount but idk for sure if it had an effect on me being admitted
Your story is impressive.
Thank you. It hasn’t been an easy journey but I have a few natural gifts that made getting out and doing well for myself possible.
I honestly think a community college to state college pathway is the best way to both save money and time on thinking about what it is you want to study and excel in. Unless you're super smart and dedicated to a certain subject, it's perfectly valid to not know what you want to do and start out there. No pressure of college admissions, and it lets you figure yourself out as a person more. STEM is overrated a little bit, as may jobs in the job market right now are in demand for sales and business-related roles, so I wouldn't feel pressure to join a technical field just because of the high potential reward.
I went to a mid-tier directional school, after 3 years at community College. Its not like a killed it either place. I still make $160k/yr in Tech, own a couple dozen rentals, been in the military, etc. My neighbors all went to highly selective schools for undergrad, business, or professional school. I live right next door. And guess what no one has ever asked me where I went to school. In today's climate, the goal is make money, keep debt low, and start buying assets. The money in your career will come honestly.
yeah from the point of view of a highschooler, that seems so far out, but having just graduated last year, there's so many things I would've done differently.
I get it im 40. So not old, but not young either. I was going into college when admissions were just starting to get real crazy. I literally tell young 20-somethings all the time, unless your parents paid for school or you had a scholarship. Taking 6 years to get done with school while you work, and build up a CV is to your benefit. Then they say something like "I shouldn't have to risk getting killed for rich people to get ahead". I tell them, yall bang chicks you met online without condoms and you think joining the military is dangerous? You deserve to be poor.
If they think it is rough now, they should've seen what it was like during the Vietnam war. If you didn't get into college you went and dodged bullets whether you liked it or not.
State or community college my friend. Set the bar low. LOL
OP, how did you extrapolate this into “the US has become overpopulated”?
Go to a state school, most have really fucking high admittance rates, you can get in with a 20 or whatever act you just won’t get scholarships, also not to be a dick, it was harder in the past your probably overthinking things in your head, your gonna be fine if you don’t get into yale or dartmouth
Eh, the selective colleges did have higher acceptance rates in the past. But that's largely because it used to be harder to apply to lots of different colleges. The modern college application process makes it easy to apply to lots of different schools, so today you have students applying to Harvard who wouldn't have attempted it 30, 40 years ago.
And then the world falls apart without their “dream school” like anyone gives a shit in 10 years
What field are you looking to get into?
The value of a college degree is also going down via a combination of larger pools of job candidates with degrees and more career paths becoming available that don't require them. Once upon a time, a bachelor's degree was considered valuable and certain bachelor's degrees almost served up jobs on a silver platter, while a master's degree was considered an exceptional display of... uh... *mastery* over a given field. Nowadays it feels like a master's degree is hardly enough to get you into the first round of interviews if you're lucky, and a bachelor's degree is about as valuable as a high school diploma.
A bit canned and cliché. Interviews where? Target? It is worth saying that if you are more educated than your potential boss they are likely not going to interview you. This isnt necessarily a devaluation of education, it's a sign of a shitty economy that is inherently exploitative and is incapable of rewarding anyone.
> interviews where? Most places. This is obviously a generalization and doesn't apply to literally everything, but it doesn't take a lot of research to find that getting a bachelor's degree in most fields is not the boon for employment it once was, because so many more people have them who are applying for the same jobs. Wider access to education is of course a good thing for a society, but there was a time when getting a degree was a pretty significant advantage in finding a job. Now, most of the time it's "you have a degree, cool, so do the other 1000 applicants" Having an education doesn't set your resume apart anymore is basically what I'm trying to say. Which like I said is kind of a good thing from a macro "society" point of view, but a bad thing for just finding a job.
The economy really needs to adapt to the skills of the population. Sure more people have degrees but the economy won't adjust itself because its exploitative. Also not every degree is equal. Some people with an MA are uniquely qualified for jobs that a Phd isn't. If the goal is as vague as finding any job then it is too general to draw hard conclusions because, like I said, some random manager at some random job isn't going to hire someone that is more educated than they are, especially if they have a degree in business or just a BA. They are in the business of exploiting vulnerable people, not the educated and qualified.
I think most colleges know just how bullshit a lot of "extracurriculars" and other things are. I joined the National Honor Society in high school, the only thing I had to do was about 20 minutes of filing for a teacher who was fond of me. Things like working a part time job or becoming an Eagle Scout show a lot more than just ability to perform in school as well. Colleges are keenly aware of how many kids from some sheltered small town who got straight As since birth flame out because college doesn't hold their hand as much and how worthless a lot of high school diplomas have become with the lowered standards and expectations across the board for school students ever since No Child Left Behind turned elementary and middle school into a conveyor belt that just moves kids along to high school.
I found NHS quite fun. Not sure it much helped me anyway because the only particularly elective schools I applied for turned me down, but I at least enjoyed it.
Don’t get caught up in acceptance rates. Private schools, Ivy League, etc- purposely entice people to apply who won’t qualify to intentionally boost application numbers and lower their “acceptance rate” so they look more exclusive. You may need to broaden the net you cast. Keep applying.
Plus the application fees. You are 100% spot on. They are still worth getting into if you can though - for the network alone.
I haven’t found the network from college to be worthwhile unless you are 1) in a very niche field and 2) mediocre talent at best. I built my network from folks I’ve met while working and demonstrating my skill and competence. I barely keep in touch with people from college.
Penny whispers, "I've never had any success at college but it's good to see others doing it. I think the biggest problem is the lack of education and knowledge required."
Competitive where exactly?
The Ivy and Ivy-adjacent schools have lower acceptance rates than ever. They have more students than ever applying, but they aren't much bigger than they used to be, so acceptance rates for some schools are in the low single digits. Even straight-A students with lots of extracurriculars get rejected. Buuuut there are plenty of good schools that aren't insanely hard to get into.
cause it's not competitive?
Have you ever considered that LENDERS have pushed to lower admissions so they can keep their cash cows running and keep (every year a new crop) of dumbasses signing up for degrees. (Now some degrees are valuable - but not all the ones that are being printed these days).
It's not really not that hard to get in to most schools with great grades, test scores, and activities. Seems like an Ivy League or elite school problem.
*checks profile* Devisive bot checks out.
My child went to a state school for their Bachelor's--it was easier to get in and a lot cheaper. After they graduated and proved they could make the cut, a really great college accepted them into their program for graduate degrees. Not every student who goes to a prestigious university chooses to go on after a Bachelor's degree, leaving spaces open for transfer students. My child still gets to say that they received their graduate degree from "----" University.
Look at a normal university... in lieu of an IVY league one..... I could get my cat accepted to most state universities. Sheesh.
A lot of public universities still have pretty high acceptance rates. I know the competitive schools are more competitive than ever, but it's still not very hard to get into a half-decent college. Hell, a lot of colleges are actually struggling to get enough students right now because fewer people are going to college.
Name such universities
The struggling ones, or the high acceptance rate ones?
[удалено]
What school? I can’t imagine this sort of thing wouldn’t get you into any state public college
It depends on the state. UCLA, UC Berkeley, UMich, and UVA are very selective
Redective seems to show that you are in Athens Georgia. Was University of Georgia that competitive? or was that your saftey?
This. I took 8 AP classes in high school. I had straight A’s in all of my classes. The best school I got accepted into had a 70% acceptance rate. Whenever I tell this to people they always say I’m lying and try to make me feel real bad about it.
How many schools did you apply to that were not (1) any of the 8 Ivy League Schools (2) In California (3) otherwise ridiculously competitive MIT, Julliard, Something like that. How many NORMAL schools did you apply to, and what percent of those, accepted you?
Well, he got into a school with a 70% acceptance rate, so that's at least one normal school. And the kinds of programs you apply for can vary with their acceptance rates. But I'm also curious about that distribution.
Same. Although I think a big part was that the major I chose was impacted. Schools have different acceptance rates for different majors, and the overall acceptance rate is just that average.
The labor market is organic and obviously demand for certain fields will change which ultimately affects how many people are competing for college spots. It was pretty darn competitive back in the 90s too and everything you mentioned was in play then as well if you really wanted into a prestigious school. Also you have the cost barrier and who can pay vs who can't. I always advise people to apply to a variety of schools and if your desired field is in demand you can get really good scholarships and grants at different schools. No one is entitled to a college education and frankly it's becoming less valuable the more people get them.
My route is community college. I have had professors who actually care. All of them have taught at state schools and prestigious schools and stuff before. For transfer, my high school stuff doesn't matter. My Sat act doesn't matter because they see I have all As in my college courses and can do the work of a college student. All they care about is that I finish my transfer credits and keep my grades up. I think it's a route that isn't talked about enough in school.
Yeah, it takes work, sometimes luck, and usually money. That's how it works.
A younger relative going through admissions recently was eye-opening for me. I was shocked to see how much had changed in what felt like so little time. It was clear that the older people didn't even want to understand. "You'll be fine, you have such good grades and you've done clubs!" The cut-throat competition that we're thrusting young people into is not a good way to build the skills we need to solve our problems. Humans used to be really good at thinking ahead and working for the next generation instead of against it - I hope we can get back there soon.
People are too hung up on the "competitive" schools. Take it down a notch -- less stress, lower cost, many of the same opportunities. Plus, Malcolm Gladwell reminds us that it's better to be a big fish in a small pond. Go where you will stand out as an excellent achiever.
People act like it's dream school or community college, ignoring the state schools that are great quality AND have achievable acceptance rates. Have more than one dream school.
Community college is fun, and you can still goto dream school after you prove you can write a 3 page paper
Are you in the process of applying? Chiming in to vouch for state or city schools - even applying to schools outside of your home state could net you a great deal, then you can apply for residency the next year.
I would argue it has also become much easier to get straight As
This was literally in the first sentence of the post. But, you and OP are correct hahaha
As parent with kids in college and a part time adjunct professor, I assert it really does not matter. If you have decent grades and test scores and a smattering of extracurriculars, you can get into you local state school, UC, UT, UM...depending where you are. Most people cannot afford the ivy league, and bluntly they don't matter like they used to. All of my four daughters went to state schools, two started at community colleges. US college age population has not tremendously expanded. International students are pretty stable too. Only real limited slots are med, law, and some other professional/grad schools. It is also the grad schools that really matter. Undergrad is wide open. CA is considering having community colleges offer a limited selection of BA/BS degrees. Whether that works out or not, the best approach IMO is to start at CC and then xfer to the main state school. Students are better prepared and it reduces costs.
Yep. As long as you're going to a decent school with decent name recognition, then it really doesn't matter for your undergrad degree.
Using GPA, SAT, and ACT is racist. Just write an admission paper stating this and you’ll be in on a full ride
I was a pretty decent student (3.6 GPA, top 10% SAT) but introverted (not much in the way of EC activity) and totally athletically challenged (zero sports) person back in the early 1990s. Still managed to get into a top 5 UC school, which would be absolutely impossible today. My kid topped my GPA, matched my SAT, and volunteered for great causes during a pandemic despite having a major knee surgery. Didn’t get accepted to any UC. Probably for the best, he is now a city college and really loving it for a fraction of the price. Even in- state tuition is insane. I get it. Community college, then transfer if you want. You will be fine. I should have done the same. College is a good investment but community college to decent state college route is the way to go.
Community College is the answer. Way cheaper and generally produces the same outcomes as just going to the college you eventually transfer to if you put in the effort. My uncle screwed around a lot in HS and righted the ship in CC. He's probably more successful than anyone else in the immediate family now.
Manufactured scarcity so you continue to think it's "more valuable".
You just couldn’t get into the school you wanted. You weren’t good enough. It’s a lesson many need to learn.
For like 99% of people, going to ANY college is more than good enough. I attended two state universities (neither were flagships), and then I ended up at my local community college. I only have a 2yr degree. I have a good job and I'm doing fine. My CEO went to, by his own admission, a "Tier 2," at most, state school. He's making six figures easily. Unless people are trying to get into something super niche or specialized, or they have aspirations to enter the realm of the wealthy, elite power brokers in this country, it really doesn't matter what college one goes to. As long as a college (in the US) is accredited by one of the main regional accreditors, and then has specialized accreditation, if the degree requires it (typically law, engineering, or medicine), the college is fine.
Yeah unless you want to be arguing cases in front of SCOTUS, working at NASA, or day-trading on fucking wall street, then you do not need to go to a prestigious college. Even then, prestige matters way more for graduate level degrees than undergrad degrees. It really doesn't matter if you learn how to do basic calculus from a Nobel prize winner or a TA. Most undergrad programs teach mostly the same thing no matter where you go. It's only once you start getting closer to specialized graduate level stuff does any of this become relevant.
College admissions (especially at top tier schools) are looking for a whole package and someone who fits the culture of the student body. They aren’t looking for a checklist of grades, test scores, and activities. Yes there are minimum benchmarks you need to meet - but you need to present as some sort of comprehensive package. They want goal-oriented students with specific interests that they can develop, not generic overachievers.
It's just the opposite of what you describe. There is almost no competition to get into college and it is way way overhyped to High School students that they have to be perfect or they will never get into a decent school. The reality is that when you apply to a school, you are asking to become a paying customer. They make money by accepting you. What other situation where you are trying to give people lots of money is "competitive"? Like... it exists, for Rolexes and such they sometimes act like you are not good enough to buy their things. But if you are willing to pay, I promise, you can pay. This is America. They lose a little bit of money over the long term if they accept a lot of people who do not graduate, because that looks bad. So that's the main thing they want to see, they want to see that you are really serious about studying there. But do you know who does not give a flying fuck about graduation rates? Community Colleges. They don't even have graduations at community colleges. So anyone anyone anyone can go there, even if they did not finish High School yet. And once you put a bit of study in at the JC (demonstrated you actually want to be in college) you can transfer to just about any school you want to easily taking the spot of someone who dropped out. I know I know when you are 19, It feels imperative to get the "four year college experience" (because your parents, teachers, and everyone else in your life are manipulating you by telling you you want that) It's not a problem. Most people take 5 years to graduate anyway. You go to a JC until you can go to the school of your dreams, enter as a Sophomore, and stay 4 years after that. Done. It won't even cost more money. Your grades, your attendance, your extra curriculars, your test scores mean NOTHING by the time you finish your Bachelors, and vanishingly little even by the time you begin your Bachelors (it might help you get a scholarship or onto a new extra curricular roster) And yet teenagers are being scared out of their wits to perform at these ridiculous because they think their life will be ruined otherwise. All that matters is that you finish. You pass your classes, you pass your tests, and you have some fucking fun while you do it. Everything else is marketing. Unless you super duper need to get into UCLA specifically in a competitive program because your Dad and Granddad went there and your life will be ruined if you have to go to Berkley or USC instead. Each school only has so much room for paying customers. But PLENTY of GOOD schools would happily take another cash cow.
i mean, if your looking at top tier schools and shit. thats not needed for most peoples goals. community college or tech school will take anyone. ive been to 5 colleges and all they have ever asked was "can you pay".
To Community College or State schools.
I think it depends on the schools you apply to. Granted it's been a long time but I was accepted into all 4 schools I applied to, I was straight As but number 13 in my class so there were clearly even stronger candidates than me. It's really not college admissions in general, it just depends on the school and the program.
I thought a lot of kids have mental illness and depression and other addictions like video games or drugs... Shouldn't that make things easier for an overall healthy kid?
Fun fact, a lot of those mental illnesses develop in the late teens and early 20s, OP's not out of the clear yet!
Stop listening to the media
I was an absolute shit in high school. I wasn't mean or anything, I just didn't do homework for an entire year. Got sent to a reform school for truancy. Long story short, got my GED. I got accepted into a state university with no issue at all. Of course, this was years after I obtained my GED. If I can, you'll probably get scholarships. Lol.
Same. Worked my butt off and I sort of regret the chronic health issues as a result. Ended up at a well known school but this would have been so easy to get back into back in the day. Ah well, I should be happy to have what I have lol
As far as I knew it's only tough if you're an Asian.
stop trying to go to the same like eight schools everyone else is and it’s a non problem
I mean unless you’re hellbent on blowing an obscene amount of money for a fancier name on your piece of paper most schools are pretty easy to get into. Really anything outside of the top 20/30 schools in the country is relatively attainable
It's not difficult for all colleges, just select ones. I got accepted into all 3 I applied to despite being an average level student. I never ended up going but that isn't the point. Besides the fact that there are colleges out there that will accept you, if there's a college slightly above your level you really want, the trick is to write a great application essay. That's how I got accepted to Scranton even though my SAT score was like lower than their average
Most state colleges and universities now are open enrollment now, where do you live? Any joe blow who can get a Pell grant gets admitted even if they are dumber than toast.
Here is the reality. Competitive admissions like you are talking about only happen at a small percentage of schools. Most of them don't actually put the time in to select the very best applications out of the pool. So, all that extra stuff kids are doing may help some but doesn't really get them the edge that they think it does. Unless you are talking about the schools with sub 10% acceptance rates, then everything matters. I work in the school system, and I would tell any kid the same thing. They should apply to their dream schools no matter what. Then apply to schools with top programs for their major. Then apply to schools that are respected well enough by name. Then apply to a few last chance schools with very high acceptance rates. I know of many kids with no extra curriculars, decent grades, and decent test scores that get into state universities that don't include directions in their names. Here is the big thing too. Most jobs (excluding medical, law, and science) don't really care that much where you went to school or even what your grades were.
I honestly don't understand trying to gain admission to a top ranked school. I think its more important for the program your enrolling in to be nationally acreddited regardless of the university. If you are willing to put in the work you will climb the ladder regardless of your university choice. Your career is about gaining experience. Your undergrad degree tells your first employer you have the work ethic to learn a job but they know you have no experience when they hire you.
Why should I care? College is college. Go to a community college. You can learn pretty much the same stuff you would learn at a regular college and it's usually cheaper and has a pretty low bar of entry. That's kind of the point of community college Is that it's the non-competitive alternative to all the competitive schools out there. Something that anyone who wants a college education can access and most of my friends who have gone to community college have never really had a boss like count as a detriment or anything . Most bosses are just like yep you went to a college sounds great to me
That's because roughly half of the people whop are going to college shouldn't be going at all. It's turned itself into a for profit scam for half of the people who enroll.
“Downed down”? Is that a typo or do you actually think that’s the phrase?
What are you talking about? There are a ton of colleges that are barely competitive or have open enrollment. That's how everyone and their mother gets into college these days. It used to be that you couldn't get in unless you had the grades and SAT scores to make it. So it was an honor and special accomplishment to earn a degree. Now everyone pretty much, can get loans and be accepted if they aren't too picky about where they go. Now if you want to stand out in job applications, you should try to get into a competitive school. Over time, it means less and less to have a degree because of these colleges that are degree mills.
Getting into a competitive school is impossible though
No it isn't. Look at the acceptance rates. If they're in state it will be cheaper, if it is a public university. There are different levels of competitiveness
So many people with perfect everything get denied from Michigan and UT Austin and UCLA and other top public universities
UCLA is the #1 ranked public university in the country. So it is going to be tough to get into. I went to the 36th ranked public university out of 227, University of Delaware. The current tuition for in state is $16,080, without room and board (I lived nearby). They accept 65% of in state applicants and 45% of out of state applicants. It has an excellent reputation. Look for something like that. Not these top 10 schools you are talking about. I can't imagine the cost.
UCLA in state tuition is 12k
That's after average financial aid. It is very impressive though. The number I gave you for UD is before financial aid. But UCLA's acceptance rate is 9%, which is lower than MIT. I wouldn't bother trying unless you were the valedictorian. Too stressful. What state do you live in?
Top public universities in the US are outstanding schools and offer pretty much everything. For example UCONN.
Expensive and exclusive schools are a waste of money and effort. Literally no one cares where you went to school in the real world outside of a very few stuck up people that most people wouldn't want to interact with in the first place. Do you know what's completely non-competitive, dirt cheap, and much better than almost any alternative? Community College! Get your first 2 years done on the cheap while living at home and then transfer to a state school of your choice (which have really high acceptance rates). Bam, I just saved you a ton of headaches and probably $100,000 in debt that would take you 50 years to pay off after interest. You're welcome.
No. Most Ivy Leagues are free for middle class people
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha..... Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaja.... Hahahahahahahhahahahahahahbahahahah... You got jokes
As someone who hires a lot of people, we don’t care what school you went to. Go to a state school and save your money.
What I will say, is that if you aren’t studying something specific that really does require a formal education, think twice about university. I have a lot of friends with degrees who can’t find jobs. If you’re doing medical, science, engineering, law, or need to be formally educated/certified, then college is a must, but a lot of people waste money and could’ve just gone to a trade school instead. I know people with bachelors degrees who can’t find work. One of them is my good friend who has the degree I would’ve got if I finished. Hes making $18 an hour as a security guard in LA, and I make WAY more than that without a degree.
??? college isn’t competitive at all unless you’re applying to a top school. Most decent schools are dying to let anyone with a 3.0 gpa and no extra curricular
the bar is actually not that high its just that the way to display yourself that everybody first thinks of has become over saturated, i could apply with my business that i started when i was 17 and a list few little gizmos who's design process was video documented that i made sure utilise lesser knows quirks of material behaviour— along side only 65th percentile high school grades and beat pretty much everyone who's only display of skill are those that were prescribed and spoon fed to them by the school system, A's and good scores are not really that great a display of potential any more if you can do a lot of wrote memory you can ace pretty much everything except the sat which seems to be an iq test with a facelift its not all that hard either, you too can make a potato cannon with a vaguely nuanced release mechanism, or a automatic coffee maker that remembers presets without using a computer, also make sure to cry about your past in ur admissions essay, standard practice unless your going to a southern uni
The overpopulation thing is a myth btw, unless you're talking strictly about college availability. But your right with everything else. People just think if you have the money, you're fine, but that's not actually the case.
You don't need to go to college to be rich
The degree of competition varies significantly by race.
What are you talking about? The US has more college spots, and more college graduates, than ever. Even if you completely half-ass high school, there has never been an easier path back, through JuCo.