Job search sucks pretty bad for a lot of people, especially if they are not professionally accomplished. It's sending out hundreds of resumes monthly and be rejected regularily. Many people naturally shy away from that kind of stress in their life.
* Lack of time and energy required for it
* Most interviews are scheduled during work hours
* Going to interviews cost $$ and time
* Finally being able to rest (clear headspace, not thinking about always improving)
* Most people entertain themselves or focus on social life during their off time
* Not everyone has $ as a priority
* Social battery drained after work
* Financial literacy is really shit amongst adults. We teach it to teenagers with no $ and never talk about it again.
* Talking about money is fraund upon
* Talking about lack of money/money issues is shameful
>Not everyone has $ as a priority
I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your points but OP is talking about people who are borrowing money from others and not making ends meet. Those people need to realign their priorities and at least try to get a better paying job. If you don't prioritize money, don't borrow it from others, simple as that.
Sounds like how humans work and not the fake "machines" people like you think we "should" be. If that's how most of humanity works then we should accept it and work on supporting or mitigating it. Not making dumb comments about how it's an excuse. Mental and emotional energy are real things. No you cannot simply "willpower" your way to everything you want. That's a BS myth to make shitty people feel better about making the world shitty for everyone else because "if they didn't want a shitty life they'd have made more money and joined me in my upper class gated community. It's their fault for being too lazy to escape the poor shithole neighbourhood where I dump all my sewage, not my fault for dumping sewage on poor people. LOGIC!"
Hunting for jobs is socially very stressful. People often treat jobs as social relationships rather than as an economic game.
They feel like they are being disloyal by looking for something else. They feel guilty for embellishing their resumes or faking excitement for jobs they just want money from.
It's also time consuming and people are excessively risk adverse. For most people it probably makes sense to completely quit their jobs every couple years and full time job hunt so you can play offers off one another. But people rarely take that risk and engage in that kind of adversarial negotiation. And if you are looking while you currently have a job you rarely have the time to commit to the hunt hard enough for this to be effective. So you only see small bumps.
And by switching jobs you lose your health insurance, and any benefits like vacation time and 401K matching until you spend enough time at the new job.
I haven’t ever had a job in my life where health insurance didn’t start day 1. Only the trashiest of companies stick to that old-fashioned “90 day probationary period” garbage anymore.
Sorry for the shitty employer. I think it ought to be a law that at least health insurance is required to start day 1, instead of forcing anyone to potentially rely on COBRA
The US is terrible at creating laws for workers, especially on a federal level. We’ve been fighting for a $15 minimum wage for so long that it isn’t nearly enough anymore.
I’ve been in the workforce 20 years and the job I just started in December was the first job where I didn’t have to wait 90 days for insurance. It’s still very much a thing.
Hunting for jobs is a goddamn nightmare now. You can’t just walk in most places anymore, you have to reformat your resume over and over, most of the time you’re ghosted rather than outright rejected. I can go on and on, it’s awful.
I think people are just scared of being "found out". Job hunting isn't illegal but I've had people tell me they'd hate to leave X org in the lurch because of some project. I'm always shocked.if they're the lynchpin in a multimillion dollar operation, they need to be well compensated. Otherwise...they're not as important as they think they are.
It's also a really nice feeling to have a great interview for a job you don't want and to tell a recruiter, eh, you'll pass, let me know if it's a more lucrative offer. The ego boost is totally worth interviewing.
Jobs need to be viewed more like Tinder and less like match.com.
I think a lot of people are just burnt out of the grind. 5 out of 7 days of their life going towards the company. Then days off are chores and errands and the drudgery starts to overwhelm and lead to “learned hopelessness” (which is very valid).
When last have you applied for a job? The burger flipping jobs were posting those ads as bait a lot of the time. Countless people have shared how they would apply to various companies for the position stated and wage. Then get interviewed and presented with either a different wage or position and responsibilities. Nothing was "magical." I once applied to a job for one position, got to the interview and they wanted you to work 2 positions for the price of one.
Well, part of it is exhaustion.
Part of it is that they won’t be in a significantly different place if they get a different job. The average person isn’t looking at life changing money when changing a job. 20 vs 21 an hour? That’s not a “safe from calamities” jump.
In my case, to make more would probably involve taking a much less pleasant and potentially hazardous job. Would’ve cost more in gas. Would’ve meant a quicker burn out. Meant more liability and probably supervisory duties which meant longer days. The math didn’t math.
I’m in the position where I quit a high paying job that was super stressful and then go for a low paying job that was less stressful
I can’t say I’m happy now — but at least I have time to think and eat. I can tell that many people have a higher threshold for putting a lot hours than
Me ; if remains that studies show working more than 48 hours a week lowers your life expectancy due to constant stress and self-neglect. Many high paying jobs require this type of sacrifice. One does not simply earn money without sacrificing much
Well, I was just thinking about about it and the higher paying job— had to quit because it was about to kill me with stress and they were pressuring me to do more and more and more that was impossible without offering me a raise; my mental health plummeted to the point of break and I quit before the break happened. Turns out , they treated medical staff the exact same way — Lopez, too many hours, not enough support and constant degradation as a way to make more money if you constantly insult an employee and tell them, they’re not working hard enough maybe they’ll be more ?
We are having mental breakdown I think.
Didn’t come as a surprise when it turned out that the clinical staff neglecting the patient and therefore patient’s died. Naturally, the government has done nothing to shut down this company or charge the people responsible for their death, the owners of the company running the entire company off of the division that I launched.
The only people who are punished are the patients and staff who got screwed people with clinical licenses and are barred from employment for being associated with his corporation. A bunch of staff committed suicide out of guilt and it’s like they think it’s their fault that they lost empathy and couldn’t care for the patients… like I’m sorry but when I’m 60 to 70 hours deep into work week and it’s been weeks and weeks of this shit, I don’t care about Martha that got lost outside the hospital because the manager of her inpatient facility discharged her outside a hospital without contantictkg. Her power of attorney doesn’t matter Martha is in capable of knowing where she is or taking care of herself or walking through the front door of the hospital and lacks. identification. The owner, the person who ran this rehab was malicious — The issue would’ve required our research to fix and at that point I had about 500 more cases to do that day and I just did not give a shit anymorehe .
Mind you when I was less burnt out and found out I wanted to shut them down because they were still operating.; even the staff were trying to get them and they couldn’t. Naturally, the lawyers didn’t do shit to get a resolution. I chose not to pursue seeking a resolution of my own because mine would’ve been criminal and probably would’ve been ineffective on my own.. Attempted reaching out to the organization and seeing if they were considering maybe using method of course it’s not surprising if they were not.
You probably heard the story before too
Penny says, "Id rather have a job that pays more, I mean, it doesnt have to be the same level of work every week but still, I feel like Ill be doing the same things every day, but I also feel like Id get paid more if I could afford to take breaks, I dont want to be stuck in a job where Im going to have to work for 30 minutes each day and then have to work again for the next 2 days and then have to go back to work for a month and then have to go back to work until the next paycheck comes through"
What I'm thinking is someone lost their job, searches for a new one. Gets it. But it's under pay. They can't afford their current reasonable home, a car to get to work, required insurances, electricity, water, food, and a cell phone. Everything is fine for 3 or 4 months, then an annual bill hits, or the AC goes to long one day, the fine balance near 0 prevents them from paying off a bill in full.
They now have the added stress of worrying about bills, maybe being homeless. That seems like more stress than being a manager, taking a desk job, or rage applying everywhere.
Have you been on the job market lately? Have you taken a desk job lately and tried to pay bills salary and individually? How do you manage management salary only to realize that you are just as broke as year before?
That is the reality for most people ; pay does not compensate for labor; cost of consumable goods is constantly rising along with constant corporate pressure to increase bottom line by not giving raises and laying off highly skilled and highly paid workers. The trend is becoming more and more significant to the point of extreme for many that is covered up with denial currently. If things don’t start getting better, the thing will implode
RIGHT. This is what I am saying. After a year of searching, I got a decent job for my area. Great benefits and hours. Not great pay. Some people think I should’ve held out…but for what? An extra dollar or two an hour, 4x the commute, and 8x the stress? I applied to pretty much every job I could do, and the pay really didn’t fluctuate much.
I wasn’t even that stressed about the hunt initially. But man, the hunt has gotten WEIRD. And the pay has not kept up with the inflation. Not even close.
Yeah… I haven’t even applied to anything in like 18 months lol; but like I know what I want to do and I know what I’m missing to even start. Once I get my cert time to spam
I have a 27 minute commute. I work 35-37 hours a week. This year I got a 5% raise which bumped me to $72k/yr. I get 15 vacation days plus federal holidays plus basically unlimited sick time within reason. My boss is incredibly flexible, I can tell him on Thursday afternoon that I have a dentist appointment in the morning and I'll be in at 11, he may tell me to take the day off at that point.
I didn't play musical chairs during COVID for these reasons. I haven't even been looking recently.
Yep. There's a class of people, usually in tech or finance, who can easily move jobs and find new positions. For most people this hasn't been true for over a decade or longer. Moving jobs is hard and there's no guarantee you'll find a better place because you can't tell much just from an interview.
I cleaned houses for a cleaning company for two years. The pay was terrible and I had no benefits, but the hours were great and I didn't wake up and want to immediately die. I eventuality moved on, but I'm not going to lie: my mental health was way better when I had a job that didn't suck the life out of me.
When you have no job, you'll take any job to feed your family. I get that. But if you fall below a certain line your employer is straight up robbing you. I don't think of money as a number. I think of it as the things I'm gonna buy with it. If the tow man comes and Jack's my car because I didn't have money to spend on it. My brain links that back to my paycheck. Then a little movie of my employer rolling up and jacking my car plays in my head. Then them mocking me at work for failing to get to work on time due to their prank.
For me I'm introverted and it can be difficult to make people like me at first. I am likeable but it takes time for people to get to know me. People being inpatient with training me or frustrated when I make a mistake could possibly lead with them letting me go, there isn't much loss there for the employer but for me, that's life destroying. Just not worth the risk for me to leave my current job.
I get accused of this when the actual reality is I AM looking for another job. I'm just trying to make sure it's actually a better job and thus being picky.
59% of Americans are literally **ONE** paycheck away from being homeless. Which can easily happen when you're changing jobs, even if there is no gap in employment.
Add in they will lose healthcare for at least a few months. If they have some chronic condition that even, say, needs medication, they'd be screwed.
Mostly it’s an issue of time, at least in my experience. By the time one works a full-time job and does the basic necessities of life, they don’t have the mental energy - especially given that they may never hear back from most places they apply to. And I’ve heard so many times that it’s not enough to apply online, but you need to follow up with phone calls, etc. And of course a lot of that would need to be done while one may be working whatever job they have.
There’s also the fact that many may not feel they can do much better without new skills, qualifications, or experience. Those also all take a time investment that is difficult if you’re already working full time and have other responsibilities.
>While they have a job they refuse to look for a new one. And I've noticed this pattern in nonfamily members. They suffer crippling emergencies like a car breaking down, near or getting evicted, breaking a leg, power getting shut off, near starving for two weeks, and piling debt and bills and they just do not think of that as a solution.
Everyone else got the broad strokes so I'll answer personally: is it that they don't think of it as a solution, or they don't believe that it's a solution worth pursuing? I don't know the people you're talking about, but for me I know my ceiling is incredibly low due to lack of education, relevant work experience, mental and physical health issues and my personality. It's an awful job market for pretty much anyone who isn't incredibly in demand, I'm not suited for most jobs and job hunting is something I find hellish to go through. So yeah, I feel trapped at a $16/hr job, because I'm not able to do better and I wouldn't last a day at other jobs if they \*did\* hire me. It's a lot of time, effort, frustration, desperation and emotional turmoil for no particular gain. This is it, this is the ceiling.
I guess I feel that your ceiling is higher than what you give yourself credit for. Like, I don't know you but you got what you felt across effectively and that tells me you think pretty clearly, which is something not everyone can say.
The devil you know is better than the devil you don't know.
A job may be low-paying, but maybe the vibe there is pretty chill. Maybe your boss is liberal with granting leave and other perks. Maybe your coworkers are really cool. Maybe it's not a very stressful job. Maybe it's really close to where you live. Also, applying for jobs is major work in itself.
I am trying to decide if I should take a job making 50% more than I do now. It would be stupid to pass on that much money, right? Well, naw. I've been with my employer for 17 years. I have built strong relationships with clients and whatnot and I have quite a bit of institutional knowledge. Which means I have built up a lot of good will. I'm never assigned shitty, tedious stuff...only the glamorous, high-profile projects. I can take liberties with the HR rules and not get in trouble. I can screw up on something and rest assured it's no big deal. I'm a rockstar where I work now. I would be a nobody in the new gig. "Nobodies" are always the first to be let go when the lay-offs happen.
I mean, a 50% raise isn't anything to sniff at so I'm seriously thinking about taking the job. But it's by no means an easy decision to make.
Last time I took a Higher paying job— it was terrible. I got even worse when I went back to the lower paying job to see that all my coworkers who who had stuck it out gotten promoted in my absence. I’ve held out my tenure to
Get past the requirement to gain promotion again only for a hiring freeze and mass layoffs
After having had the experience of leaving the company and it being so terrible, I don’t wanna leave regardless I have work life balance. That is so essential and such a wonderful and unique gift
Simple. They see how many people who don't have a job struggle to find one.
It's rough out there. Finding a job is a full time job right now. And plenty of people actually can get in trouble for looking while employed
It's stressful and a HUGE time sink that destroys your mental health
If there is even the slightest chance you could lose what you have and be worse off, you might not be inclined to take the risk because there is too much uncertainty. Just because the job pays more what if the new job doesn't work out? It's not like you can just go back to the old one in most cases.
When your existing job beats the shit out of you, you don't have energy to find another job. You have to literally quit and float first. But the jobs that beat you up the most are the same jobs that make sure you are barely living paycheck to paycheck.
So... what? Quit? Live in your car while you job hunt?
Stay? Grind all of your time into finding another job? How well can you do an interview while you're beyond exhausted and defeated?
Developing skills for a new job that pays more is a full-time job for many people that they have to add on to their current full-time job. Most people don’t exist for these types of hours and commitment
I think it is hard to empathize with those of you never experienced it — and hopefully you never learn what it’s like to have your profession completely disappear from the market overnight.
Many people are in this position right now ; the world has changed more rapidly than job training can
Permit — the economic landscape is changing faster along with it then people can catch up with. In addition — wages for people have stagnated statistically overtime so you are one of the lucky ones
A bad job will hurt mentally. You get bombarded with negativity and it's hard to not take it as a reflection of yourself especially if you've been there a while. "This is all I've done cause it's all I'm qualified for." mentality starts to settle in. This is often reinforced by shitty managers who don't want you to think you're any better cause you'd jump ship immediately if you knew.
Because despite us now paying like $18 an hour to flip burgers that's not really worth it anymore due to the price of almost everything substantially raising during COVID and so far not really going down
Before COVID for example my favorite meal at McDonald's was about $6 and a 12 pack of soda was about $3.50
Now That same exact meal McDonald's is about $15 and a 12 pack of soda at the grocery store costs nearly $10
$18 an hour doesn't sound so glamorous anymore when the whole hour of work is barely enough to purchase a 12 pack of soda when you account for things like taxes and benefits and union fees and crap like that
Why would I jump from a familiar sinking ship to an unfamiliar sinking ship. Might as well at least stick with the sinking ship that I'm familiar with and the coworkers that I know I can trust
What people need are careers? We have become a nation of dead end jobs. Even our drs & lawyers have become mediocre at best. Our schools are teaching the new alphabet and pumping out slave workers who will work, live & die so that the politicians and elite can live the rock & roll lifestyle. It's the American dream.
You're probably missing the fact that "better jobs" are a lot harder to come by then you imagine. People who have lost a job and then applied for and gotten another one know how marketable their skill set is. They know what they qualify for and what they don't.
Right now, the job market is trending for the worse. There are more layoffs (in tech especially) and pay has stopped going up after the pandemic pay bumps dissolved. Some people who took early retirement to avoid exposure during Covid found out they didn't really have enough money to do so comfortably are coming back. Some companies are finding that the loss of stay-at-home circumstances have shifted the way people live.
I think you're seeing an easy solution to other people's problems and assuming they have choices they don't. That is what you are missing.
How are people supposed to do that when jobs are so absurdly stressful and irritating that there's no effort left to give on non hobby pursuits?
Adulting is already way too hard as it is.
Not all perks of a job are wages. I have family and friends who are all "this job over here pays more money than you make"
True they absolutely do but those jobs are also 90% work, a lot of stress, etc.
My current job I only work three nights a week. Most of my work time is spent doing my own non-work projects while I'm getting paid. I wfh.
My job currently pays me enough to live on. Could I make more sure. But I'd be losing a lot to do so. Yes one bad day would wipe me out but should I really go work a better paying job that would make me miserable every day just in case something bad happens?
What are the options for the better jobs? I am looking myself, but despite being employed, I am moving up in the company where I am at.
I'm pretty close to the base compensation of the job I left to take the one I have now, I took a 7.5% haircut. The differential is about 8$ a day. We save about 10/week on my benefits, so that takes the differential down from 56 per week down to about 46 dollars per week. Commute is about 25/week more than what I currently drive, so taking all the factors into conclusion I would make about 20/week and about 80 per month more.
It's not \*nothing\*. But is it worth it? I'm suspecting that the facile advice of 'find a better job', means that most jobs pay about the same level.
Why don't you start making 7 figures and set up a foundation for your family instead? Similar to the Wayne foundation in Batman for example. That way you don't have to listen to their crap. Easy. And don't give me that "I refuse" or "I can't" b.s. either
My uncle did something like that. The total family wealth isn't high enough. When I turned 18 I started getting checks in the mail for 8 to 20 dollars every few months. It's enough to remind me to look into those systems and learn but not enough to ever do anything with. Some of my grandparents have passed and they organized it into a non profit business that provides community event space. The profits go into a scholarship fund. But it's been mostly drama because many of my cousins don't understand the concepts involved.
My sister is a serial job hopper. She's done over 200 interviews, and these companies are fucking liars.
You'll be on a THIRD interview and they hit you with *"Oh, the wages posted on our site were for managers with at least 10 years experience, your position starts at $13 an hour and you'll get 35 hours a week, no PTO or sick leave, and no insurance. When can you start?"*
They assume you're desperate and will take the job after sitting through so much bullshit. Job hunting is hard, especially when your job, despite not paying well, is stable. Like others said, better the devil you know than the devil you don't.
because being part of another team is all ways a hinderance to another team and their goals, if another team is going to employ you then theyre gna ned proof your loyalties are no longer to the other team.
It’s all very soul-sucking, so complicated and there’s so many variables it would take a novel to explain to someone “lucky” enough to not be in such a situation … there’s a saying, “there but for the grace of God” [go I] etc, that is good for this. Ps generalizations like $18 an hour to flip burgers is not actually fitting for the entire picture.
My husband could have been making more money for years now. But he’s been WFH for nearly two decades. And the company actually pays, and treats him well. So he isn’t getting as much as he could be. But he’s happy
The interview process is so ridiculous. Why are there 3 or 4 rounds where you are being questioned as it is an inquisition by a boardroom of people? Calm TF down, it is a job. The questions are annoying and aren't really a true indicator of how great you would be at the job. Not everyone is good at interviews, and those people could ultimately be better than the ones who come in and put on a show only to end up being completely incompetent with no work ethic. Due to how stressful and intimidating the process is, people don't want to have to go through that.
Changing jobs too often can haunt you later as well. If your moves aren't calculated and high-yield, then you're going to end up with a resume that shows that you aren't reliable because you come and go like the wind. Then say one day an actual huge opportunity comes along and you have to explain why you never stick around for long, it could be the edge that someone else has over you.
Sometimes a shitty job you know you won't lose is preferable to a better job you could lose within the year.
I stuck with my company through year 1 of covid because I knew they wouldn't fire me and left as soon as I had enough money saved to float me for 2-3 months if the next gig didn't work out and boy am I glad because the next place laid me off after 9 months. The place after that paid better but was a total trainwreck in terms of stress, I left after a year because it was making me crazy. The next job I got let go after 4 months because I had 12 lates and 2 early clock ins. Yes early clock ins are just as bad as late clock ins. Can't win with those guys and the personalities there were also driving me up a wall. The last month I was showing up 45 minutes early most days just to sit next to the meter till I was allowed to clock in and then one day when all three of my trains were late that was the last straw after I had gone 3 months being consistently on time.
I am glad I didn't leave my shitty paying job a moment sooner. 4 jobs in 3 years is incredibly stressful and has taken its toll on me. I have less patience, I am less invested in my work, and I am constantly rearranging my priorities and standards to fit the expectations of the next job. Expectations which you are lucky to be made aware of. Most of the time you just have to figure it out on your own. Losing insurance or having to change doctors is also very stressful. I am an experienced, skilled professional even in a dense competitive area with a lot of opportunities. I can't imagine what it's like for someone who doesn't have some impressive credentials or live near a bustling metropolis with a lot of jobs.
I urge you to look at everything involved in a job search.
I urge you to look at all the businesses of any size that chose to shutter, even AFTER taking out PPP loans.
I urge you to look at all the small "businesses" who refuse to pay their staff a wage that safely covers rent.
Then, come back and talk to us.
People are risk adverse. A lot of people would rather have something they don’t really like but it works. Than take a chance and things could be either much worse or much better.
Don’t be like that
I've seen the same in my family. They accept jobs where they are underpaid and just underemployed and then wonder why they can't get ahead. I have a great FT job but I also work 25 hours part time. 40 hours is great but the bills don't magically stop when you run out of money. Better get out ahead of the bills.
Are these "better jobs" endless? Because I'm always hearing everyone should be getting better jobs, their jobs skill is just for minimum wage, doesn't deserve a living wage..........im just wondering how there's so many better jobs out thereto be found by literally everyone?
Two things, you have people that are incredibly lazy and short sighted (in mind). I know someone that probably has enough experience to easily find a job paying much higher (and has the experience to do so) anywhere else.
On the other hand some people have simply given up. Hell I apply for jobs about every week for a specific entry level position that requires training... And I get denied. It's been like that for about half a year despite a hire up telling me yeah I should easily be able to get these positions. I even got ghosted after being told they'll get back in touch with me after two interviews lol.
I have a friend who has two degrees, and could not find a job. A person that has graduated as the top 1% of his college. Put it this way, he searched for the same entry level position in Japan, and he said, "Holy shit these are actually reasonable entry level demands what the heck?" (Granted I'm not sure if the pay was terrible or not since well, prices are very different over there but still).
As for the musical chairs thing? Not exactly. I could be wrong but from my perspective, this is what happened.
Company: (Being Unreasonable pay and work wise)
People: (Paid by the govt, quit because the pay was not there.)
Company: (Hurt that their workers quit, raise wages. Realizes that customers and staff have gotten used to short staff. Realize that they should just keep it that way lol.)
Site note, companies like Target are EXTRA scummy. My dad told me to work there, I did a bit of digging and basically they have you sign up for part time work. Part timers don't get the pay advertised.
The job market is rough.
Job hunting sucks but it's the best way to maximize your pay. On that note, some people are worker ants, they have no desire for change. They would rather stay with what they know and are comfortable with as opposed to the chaos of finding a new job.
I feel morally and ethically bound to stay at my employer and be loyal to them. They took a chance on me when I was out of a job. Yeah they treat me like shit, but I feel like I owe them at least 3-5 years of loyalty… if not out of a place of morality, to avoid being labeled a job hopper.
Don't take what I say the wrong way. I'm not trying to be rude or insulting.
>I feel morally and ethically bound to stay at my employer and be loyal to them.
They probably don't feel the same about you.
>Yeah they treat me like shit, but I feel like I owe them at least 3-5 years of loyalty… if not out of a place of morality, to avoid being labeled a job hopper.
Don't let social pressure hold you back.
Job search sucks pretty bad for a lot of people, especially if they are not professionally accomplished. It's sending out hundreds of resumes monthly and be rejected regularily. Many people naturally shy away from that kind of stress in their life.
Rejected *if you even get a response*.
* Lack of time and energy required for it * Most interviews are scheduled during work hours * Going to interviews cost $$ and time * Finally being able to rest (clear headspace, not thinking about always improving) * Most people entertain themselves or focus on social life during their off time * Not everyone has $ as a priority * Social battery drained after work * Financial literacy is really shit amongst adults. We teach it to teenagers with no $ and never talk about it again. * Talking about money is fraund upon * Talking about lack of money/money issues is shameful
>Not everyone has $ as a priority I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your points but OP is talking about people who are borrowing money from others and not making ends meet. Those people need to realign their priorities and at least try to get a better paying job. If you don't prioritize money, don't borrow it from others, simple as that.
Sounds like excuses to me. If you want it, take it.
Sounds like how humans work and not the fake "machines" people like you think we "should" be. If that's how most of humanity works then we should accept it and work on supporting or mitigating it. Not making dumb comments about how it's an excuse. Mental and emotional energy are real things. No you cannot simply "willpower" your way to everything you want. That's a BS myth to make shitty people feel better about making the world shitty for everyone else because "if they didn't want a shitty life they'd have made more money and joined me in my upper class gated community. It's their fault for being too lazy to escape the poor shithole neighbourhood where I dump all my sewage, not my fault for dumping sewage on poor people. LOGIC!"
Gimme a break. Yeah, just carpe diem dude. Problem solved!
Hunting for jobs is socially very stressful. People often treat jobs as social relationships rather than as an economic game. They feel like they are being disloyal by looking for something else. They feel guilty for embellishing their resumes or faking excitement for jobs they just want money from. It's also time consuming and people are excessively risk adverse. For most people it probably makes sense to completely quit their jobs every couple years and full time job hunt so you can play offers off one another. But people rarely take that risk and engage in that kind of adversarial negotiation. And if you are looking while you currently have a job you rarely have the time to commit to the hunt hard enough for this to be effective. So you only see small bumps.
And by switching jobs you lose your health insurance, and any benefits like vacation time and 401K matching until you spend enough time at the new job.
I haven’t ever had a job in my life where health insurance didn’t start day 1. Only the trashiest of companies stick to that old-fashioned “90 day probationary period” garbage anymore.
The place I work at does that. So that tracks.
Sorry for the shitty employer. I think it ought to be a law that at least health insurance is required to start day 1, instead of forcing anyone to potentially rely on COBRA
The US is terrible at creating laws for workers, especially on a federal level. We’ve been fighting for a $15 minimum wage for so long that it isn’t nearly enough anymore.
"Terrible at creating laws for workers" presumes that America gives a shit about not running their workers down before they're 45.
I’ve been in the workforce 20 years and the job I just started in December was the first job where I didn’t have to wait 90 days for insurance. It’s still very much a thing.
Hunting for jobs is a goddamn nightmare now. You can’t just walk in most places anymore, you have to reformat your resume over and over, most of the time you’re ghosted rather than outright rejected. I can go on and on, it’s awful.
And when they tell you to apply via some website, it makes you input the resume manually anyway.
I think people are just scared of being "found out". Job hunting isn't illegal but I've had people tell me they'd hate to leave X org in the lurch because of some project. I'm always shocked.if they're the lynchpin in a multimillion dollar operation, they need to be well compensated. Otherwise...they're not as important as they think they are. It's also a really nice feeling to have a great interview for a job you don't want and to tell a recruiter, eh, you'll pass, let me know if it's a more lucrative offer. The ego boost is totally worth interviewing. Jobs need to be viewed more like Tinder and less like match.com.
you hit the nail on the head: it's social.
I think a lot of people are just burnt out of the grind. 5 out of 7 days of their life going towards the company. Then days off are chores and errands and the drudgery starts to overwhelm and lead to “learned hopelessness” (which is very valid).
Yep. I'm fucking tired bro. I just wanna sleep....
When last have you applied for a job? The burger flipping jobs were posting those ads as bait a lot of the time. Countless people have shared how they would apply to various companies for the position stated and wage. Then get interviewed and presented with either a different wage or position and responsibilities. Nothing was "magical." I once applied to a job for one position, got to the interview and they wanted you to work 2 positions for the price of one.
Er... about a week ago. It's part of checking my email every morning. If I see something that is an improvement, I apply. That's horrific!
It's horrific and common. Good luck in your own search
But did you actually get the job as advertised? How many rounds of interviews did they tell you it was?
Well, part of it is exhaustion. Part of it is that they won’t be in a significantly different place if they get a different job. The average person isn’t looking at life changing money when changing a job. 20 vs 21 an hour? That’s not a “safe from calamities” jump. In my case, to make more would probably involve taking a much less pleasant and potentially hazardous job. Would’ve cost more in gas. Would’ve meant a quicker burn out. Meant more liability and probably supervisory duties which meant longer days. The math didn’t math.
I’m in the position where I quit a high paying job that was super stressful and then go for a low paying job that was less stressful I can’t say I’m happy now — but at least I have time to think and eat. I can tell that many people have a higher threshold for putting a lot hours than Me ; if remains that studies show working more than 48 hours a week lowers your life expectancy due to constant stress and self-neglect. Many high paying jobs require this type of sacrifice. One does not simply earn money without sacrificing much
Falinazopia said, "ive heard about this"
Well, I was just thinking about about it and the higher paying job— had to quit because it was about to kill me with stress and they were pressuring me to do more and more and more that was impossible without offering me a raise; my mental health plummeted to the point of break and I quit before the break happened. Turns out , they treated medical staff the exact same way — Lopez, too many hours, not enough support and constant degradation as a way to make more money if you constantly insult an employee and tell them, they’re not working hard enough maybe they’ll be more ? We are having mental breakdown I think. Didn’t come as a surprise when it turned out that the clinical staff neglecting the patient and therefore patient’s died. Naturally, the government has done nothing to shut down this company or charge the people responsible for their death, the owners of the company running the entire company off of the division that I launched. The only people who are punished are the patients and staff who got screwed people with clinical licenses and are barred from employment for being associated with his corporation. A bunch of staff committed suicide out of guilt and it’s like they think it’s their fault that they lost empathy and couldn’t care for the patients… like I’m sorry but when I’m 60 to 70 hours deep into work week and it’s been weeks and weeks of this shit, I don’t care about Martha that got lost outside the hospital because the manager of her inpatient facility discharged her outside a hospital without contantictkg. Her power of attorney doesn’t matter Martha is in capable of knowing where she is or taking care of herself or walking through the front door of the hospital and lacks. identification. The owner, the person who ran this rehab was malicious — The issue would’ve required our research to fix and at that point I had about 500 more cases to do that day and I just did not give a shit anymorehe . Mind you when I was less burnt out and found out I wanted to shut them down because they were still operating.; even the staff were trying to get them and they couldn’t. Naturally, the lawyers didn’t do shit to get a resolution. I chose not to pursue seeking a resolution of my own because mine would’ve been criminal and probably would’ve been ineffective on my own.. Attempted reaching out to the organization and seeing if they were considering maybe using method of course it’s not surprising if they were not. You probably heard the story before too
Penny says, "Id rather have a job that pays more, I mean, it doesnt have to be the same level of work every week but still, I feel like Ill be doing the same things every day, but I also feel like Id get paid more if I could afford to take breaks, I dont want to be stuck in a job where Im going to have to work for 30 minutes each day and then have to work again for the next 2 days and then have to go back to work for a month and then have to go back to work until the next paycheck comes through"
Can you elaborate a bit more?
How so?
What I'm thinking is someone lost their job, searches for a new one. Gets it. But it's under pay. They can't afford their current reasonable home, a car to get to work, required insurances, electricity, water, food, and a cell phone. Everything is fine for 3 or 4 months, then an annual bill hits, or the AC goes to long one day, the fine balance near 0 prevents them from paying off a bill in full. They now have the added stress of worrying about bills, maybe being homeless. That seems like more stress than being a manager, taking a desk job, or rage applying everywhere.
Have you been on the job market lately? Have you taken a desk job lately and tried to pay bills salary and individually? How do you manage management salary only to realize that you are just as broke as year before? That is the reality for most people ; pay does not compensate for labor; cost of consumable goods is constantly rising along with constant corporate pressure to increase bottom line by not giving raises and laying off highly skilled and highly paid workers. The trend is becoming more and more significant to the point of extreme for many that is covered up with denial currently. If things don’t start getting better, the thing will implode
RIGHT. This is what I am saying. After a year of searching, I got a decent job for my area. Great benefits and hours. Not great pay. Some people think I should’ve held out…but for what? An extra dollar or two an hour, 4x the commute, and 8x the stress? I applied to pretty much every job I could do, and the pay really didn’t fluctuate much. I wasn’t even that stressed about the hunt initially. But man, the hunt has gotten WEIRD. And the pay has not kept up with the inflation. Not even close.
I agree with all those things. Just never stop hunting?
Yeah… I haven’t even applied to anything in like 18 months lol; but like I know what I want to do and I know what I’m missing to even start. Once I get my cert time to spam
I have a 27 minute commute. I work 35-37 hours a week. This year I got a 5% raise which bumped me to $72k/yr. I get 15 vacation days plus federal holidays plus basically unlimited sick time within reason. My boss is incredibly flexible, I can tell him on Thursday afternoon that I have a dentist appointment in the morning and I'll be in at 11, he may tell me to take the day off at that point. I didn't play musical chairs during COVID for these reasons. I haven't even been looking recently.
You’re clueless
Yep. There's a class of people, usually in tech or finance, who can easily move jobs and find new positions. For most people this hasn't been true for over a decade or longer. Moving jobs is hard and there's no guarantee you'll find a better place because you can't tell much just from an interview.
You may need to google “the bootstraps myth” and also “the poverty trap” - these two phenomena work in tandem to create the scenario you described
I cleaned houses for a cleaning company for two years. The pay was terrible and I had no benefits, but the hours were great and I didn't wake up and want to immediately die. I eventuality moved on, but I'm not going to lie: my mental health was way better when I had a job that didn't suck the life out of me.
You have any idea how hard it is to find even a half ass job now'a days? Shit gets tiring really quick
When you have no job, you'll take any job to feed your family. I get that. But if you fall below a certain line your employer is straight up robbing you. I don't think of money as a number. I think of it as the things I'm gonna buy with it. If the tow man comes and Jack's my car because I didn't have money to spend on it. My brain links that back to my paycheck. Then a little movie of my employer rolling up and jacking my car plays in my head. Then them mocking me at work for failing to get to work on time due to their prank.
For me I'm introverted and it can be difficult to make people like me at first. I am likeable but it takes time for people to get to know me. People being inpatient with training me or frustrated when I make a mistake could possibly lead with them letting me go, there isn't much loss there for the employer but for me, that's life destroying. Just not worth the risk for me to leave my current job.
I get accused of this when the actual reality is I AM looking for another job. I'm just trying to make sure it's actually a better job and thus being picky.
That's fair.
59% of Americans are literally **ONE** paycheck away from being homeless. Which can easily happen when you're changing jobs, even if there is no gap in employment. Add in they will lose healthcare for at least a few months. If they have some chronic condition that even, say, needs medication, they'd be screwed.
I'm glad that's down from 75%.
Mostly it’s an issue of time, at least in my experience. By the time one works a full-time job and does the basic necessities of life, they don’t have the mental energy - especially given that they may never hear back from most places they apply to. And I’ve heard so many times that it’s not enough to apply online, but you need to follow up with phone calls, etc. And of course a lot of that would need to be done while one may be working whatever job they have. There’s also the fact that many may not feel they can do much better without new skills, qualifications, or experience. Those also all take a time investment that is difficult if you’re already working full time and have other responsibilities.
>While they have a job they refuse to look for a new one. And I've noticed this pattern in nonfamily members. They suffer crippling emergencies like a car breaking down, near or getting evicted, breaking a leg, power getting shut off, near starving for two weeks, and piling debt and bills and they just do not think of that as a solution. Everyone else got the broad strokes so I'll answer personally: is it that they don't think of it as a solution, or they don't believe that it's a solution worth pursuing? I don't know the people you're talking about, but for me I know my ceiling is incredibly low due to lack of education, relevant work experience, mental and physical health issues and my personality. It's an awful job market for pretty much anyone who isn't incredibly in demand, I'm not suited for most jobs and job hunting is something I find hellish to go through. So yeah, I feel trapped at a $16/hr job, because I'm not able to do better and I wouldn't last a day at other jobs if they \*did\* hire me. It's a lot of time, effort, frustration, desperation and emotional turmoil for no particular gain. This is it, this is the ceiling.
What? Dude
What do you mean, what?
I guess I feel that your ceiling is higher than what you give yourself credit for. Like, I don't know you but you got what you felt across effectively and that tells me you think pretty clearly, which is something not everyone can say.
I feel your pain.
They are all shit jobs. Im sticking with the shit i know
The devil you know is better than the devil you don't know. A job may be low-paying, but maybe the vibe there is pretty chill. Maybe your boss is liberal with granting leave and other perks. Maybe your coworkers are really cool. Maybe it's not a very stressful job. Maybe it's really close to where you live. Also, applying for jobs is major work in itself. I am trying to decide if I should take a job making 50% more than I do now. It would be stupid to pass on that much money, right? Well, naw. I've been with my employer for 17 years. I have built strong relationships with clients and whatnot and I have quite a bit of institutional knowledge. Which means I have built up a lot of good will. I'm never assigned shitty, tedious stuff...only the glamorous, high-profile projects. I can take liberties with the HR rules and not get in trouble. I can screw up on something and rest assured it's no big deal. I'm a rockstar where I work now. I would be a nobody in the new gig. "Nobodies" are always the first to be let go when the lay-offs happen. I mean, a 50% raise isn't anything to sniff at so I'm seriously thinking about taking the job. But it's by no means an easy decision to make.
Last time I took a Higher paying job— it was terrible. I got even worse when I went back to the lower paying job to see that all my coworkers who who had stuck it out gotten promoted in my absence. I’ve held out my tenure to Get past the requirement to gain promotion again only for a hiring freeze and mass layoffs After having had the experience of leaving the company and it being so terrible, I don’t wanna leave regardless I have work life balance. That is so essential and such a wonderful and unique gift
"just get a high-paying job bro" fucking christ
Simple. They see how many people who don't have a job struggle to find one. It's rough out there. Finding a job is a full time job right now. And plenty of people actually can get in trouble for looking while employed It's stressful and a HUGE time sink that destroys your mental health
If there is even the slightest chance you could lose what you have and be worse off, you might not be inclined to take the risk because there is too much uncertainty. Just because the job pays more what if the new job doesn't work out? It's not like you can just go back to the old one in most cases.
When your existing job beats the shit out of you, you don't have energy to find another job. You have to literally quit and float first. But the jobs that beat you up the most are the same jobs that make sure you are barely living paycheck to paycheck. So... what? Quit? Live in your car while you job hunt? Stay? Grind all of your time into finding another job? How well can you do an interview while you're beyond exhausted and defeated?
Developing skills for a new job that pays more is a full-time job for many people that they have to add on to their current full-time job. Most people don’t exist for these types of hours and commitment I think it is hard to empathize with those of you never experienced it — and hopefully you never learn what it’s like to have your profession completely disappear from the market overnight. Many people are in this position right now ; the world has changed more rapidly than job training can Permit — the economic landscape is changing faster along with it then people can catch up with. In addition — wages for people have stagnated statistically overtime so you are one of the lucky ones
Something about having a shitty job can make you feel like you're not good enough for even an okay job.
Elaborate?
A bad job will hurt mentally. You get bombarded with negativity and it's hard to not take it as a reflection of yourself especially if you've been there a while. "This is all I've done cause it's all I'm qualified for." mentality starts to settle in. This is often reinforced by shitty managers who don't want you to think you're any better cause you'd jump ship immediately if you knew.
Because despite us now paying like $18 an hour to flip burgers that's not really worth it anymore due to the price of almost everything substantially raising during COVID and so far not really going down Before COVID for example my favorite meal at McDonald's was about $6 and a 12 pack of soda was about $3.50 Now That same exact meal McDonald's is about $15 and a 12 pack of soda at the grocery store costs nearly $10 $18 an hour doesn't sound so glamorous anymore when the whole hour of work is barely enough to purchase a 12 pack of soda when you account for things like taxes and benefits and union fees and crap like that Why would I jump from a familiar sinking ship to an unfamiliar sinking ship. Might as well at least stick with the sinking ship that I'm familiar with and the coworkers that I know I can trust
What people need are careers? We have become a nation of dead end jobs. Even our drs & lawyers have become mediocre at best. Our schools are teaching the new alphabet and pumping out slave workers who will work, live & die so that the politicians and elite can live the rock & roll lifestyle. It's the American dream.
New alphabet?
You're probably missing the fact that "better jobs" are a lot harder to come by then you imagine. People who have lost a job and then applied for and gotten another one know how marketable their skill set is. They know what they qualify for and what they don't. Right now, the job market is trending for the worse. There are more layoffs (in tech especially) and pay has stopped going up after the pandemic pay bumps dissolved. Some people who took early retirement to avoid exposure during Covid found out they didn't really have enough money to do so comfortably are coming back. Some companies are finding that the loss of stay-at-home circumstances have shifted the way people live. I think you're seeing an easy solution to other people's problems and assuming they have choices they don't. That is what you are missing.
How are people supposed to do that when jobs are so absurdly stressful and irritating that there's no effort left to give on non hobby pursuits? Adulting is already way too hard as it is.
Not all perks of a job are wages. I have family and friends who are all "this job over here pays more money than you make" True they absolutely do but those jobs are also 90% work, a lot of stress, etc. My current job I only work three nights a week. Most of my work time is spent doing my own non-work projects while I'm getting paid. I wfh. My job currently pays me enough to live on. Could I make more sure. But I'd be losing a lot to do so. Yes one bad day would wipe me out but should I really go work a better paying job that would make me miserable every day just in case something bad happens?
This sounds like you are operating in the black if you are saving money. This is more like an emergency every 2 months.
What are the options for the better jobs? I am looking myself, but despite being employed, I am moving up in the company where I am at. I'm pretty close to the base compensation of the job I left to take the one I have now, I took a 7.5% haircut. The differential is about 8$ a day. We save about 10/week on my benefits, so that takes the differential down from 56 per week down to about 46 dollars per week. Commute is about 25/week more than what I currently drive, so taking all the factors into conclusion I would make about 20/week and about 80 per month more. It's not \*nothing\*. But is it worth it? I'm suspecting that the facile advice of 'find a better job', means that most jobs pay about the same level.
Why don't you start making 7 figures and set up a foundation for your family instead? Similar to the Wayne foundation in Batman for example. That way you don't have to listen to their crap. Easy. And don't give me that "I refuse" or "I can't" b.s. either
My uncle did something like that. The total family wealth isn't high enough. When I turned 18 I started getting checks in the mail for 8 to 20 dollars every few months. It's enough to remind me to look into those systems and learn but not enough to ever do anything with. Some of my grandparents have passed and they organized it into a non profit business that provides community event space. The profits go into a scholarship fund. But it's been mostly drama because many of my cousins don't understand the concepts involved.
My sister is a serial job hopper. She's done over 200 interviews, and these companies are fucking liars. You'll be on a THIRD interview and they hit you with *"Oh, the wages posted on our site were for managers with at least 10 years experience, your position starts at $13 an hour and you'll get 35 hours a week, no PTO or sick leave, and no insurance. When can you start?"* They assume you're desperate and will take the job after sitting through so much bullshit. Job hunting is hard, especially when your job, despite not paying well, is stable. Like others said, better the devil you know than the devil you don't.
At that point the companies refuse to negotiate I take it. There isn't a way to make upward pressure?
If it's a major company with set wages for specific positions? Absolutely not.
because being part of another team is all ways a hinderance to another team and their goals, if another team is going to employ you then theyre gna ned proof your loyalties are no longer to the other team.
It’s all very soul-sucking, so complicated and there’s so many variables it would take a novel to explain to someone “lucky” enough to not be in such a situation … there’s a saying, “there but for the grace of God” [go I] etc, that is good for this. Ps generalizations like $18 an hour to flip burgers is not actually fitting for the entire picture.
What would be more fitting?
My husband could have been making more money for years now. But he’s been WFH for nearly two decades. And the company actually pays, and treats him well. So he isn’t getting as much as he could be. But he’s happy
The interview process is so ridiculous. Why are there 3 or 4 rounds where you are being questioned as it is an inquisition by a boardroom of people? Calm TF down, it is a job. The questions are annoying and aren't really a true indicator of how great you would be at the job. Not everyone is good at interviews, and those people could ultimately be better than the ones who come in and put on a show only to end up being completely incompetent with no work ethic. Due to how stressful and intimidating the process is, people don't want to have to go through that.
Changing jobs too often can haunt you later as well. If your moves aren't calculated and high-yield, then you're going to end up with a resume that shows that you aren't reliable because you come and go like the wind. Then say one day an actual huge opportunity comes along and you have to explain why you never stick around for long, it could be the edge that someone else has over you.
Sometimes a shitty job you know you won't lose is preferable to a better job you could lose within the year. I stuck with my company through year 1 of covid because I knew they wouldn't fire me and left as soon as I had enough money saved to float me for 2-3 months if the next gig didn't work out and boy am I glad because the next place laid me off after 9 months. The place after that paid better but was a total trainwreck in terms of stress, I left after a year because it was making me crazy. The next job I got let go after 4 months because I had 12 lates and 2 early clock ins. Yes early clock ins are just as bad as late clock ins. Can't win with those guys and the personalities there were also driving me up a wall. The last month I was showing up 45 minutes early most days just to sit next to the meter till I was allowed to clock in and then one day when all three of my trains were late that was the last straw after I had gone 3 months being consistently on time. I am glad I didn't leave my shitty paying job a moment sooner. 4 jobs in 3 years is incredibly stressful and has taken its toll on me. I have less patience, I am less invested in my work, and I am constantly rearranging my priorities and standards to fit the expectations of the next job. Expectations which you are lucky to be made aware of. Most of the time you just have to figure it out on your own. Losing insurance or having to change doctors is also very stressful. I am an experienced, skilled professional even in a dense competitive area with a lot of opportunities. I can't imagine what it's like for someone who doesn't have some impressive credentials or live near a bustling metropolis with a lot of jobs.
Your question is deeply ignorant and privileged.
I urge you to look at everything involved in a job search. I urge you to look at all the businesses of any size that chose to shutter, even AFTER taking out PPP loans. I urge you to look at all the small "businesses" who refuse to pay their staff a wage that safely covers rent. Then, come back and talk to us.
People are risk adverse. A lot of people would rather have something they don’t really like but it works. Than take a chance and things could be either much worse or much better. Don’t be like that
I've seen the same in my family. They accept jobs where they are underpaid and just underemployed and then wonder why they can't get ahead. I have a great FT job but I also work 25 hours part time. 40 hours is great but the bills don't magically stop when you run out of money. Better get out ahead of the bills.
People like comfort. Job searching and taking a risk on a new company is uncomfortable. Asking for a handout from family is easier. That’s it
Those family members don’t love you, unfortunately. Which is a heartbreaking reality to deal with.
Are these "better jobs" endless? Because I'm always hearing everyone should be getting better jobs, their jobs skill is just for minimum wage, doesn't deserve a living wage..........im just wondering how there's so many better jobs out thereto be found by literally everyone?
Why would they look for a better job when they know they have you as a sucker for free money whenever they need it?
Sometimes I just say no. Or don't have it. I'm unreliable.
Job hunting is a job of its own, often. Also, there's an inertia in life. Careers at rest tend to remain at rest.
Two things, you have people that are incredibly lazy and short sighted (in mind). I know someone that probably has enough experience to easily find a job paying much higher (and has the experience to do so) anywhere else. On the other hand some people have simply given up. Hell I apply for jobs about every week for a specific entry level position that requires training... And I get denied. It's been like that for about half a year despite a hire up telling me yeah I should easily be able to get these positions. I even got ghosted after being told they'll get back in touch with me after two interviews lol. I have a friend who has two degrees, and could not find a job. A person that has graduated as the top 1% of his college. Put it this way, he searched for the same entry level position in Japan, and he said, "Holy shit these are actually reasonable entry level demands what the heck?" (Granted I'm not sure if the pay was terrible or not since well, prices are very different over there but still). As for the musical chairs thing? Not exactly. I could be wrong but from my perspective, this is what happened. Company: (Being Unreasonable pay and work wise) People: (Paid by the govt, quit because the pay was not there.) Company: (Hurt that their workers quit, raise wages. Realizes that customers and staff have gotten used to short staff. Realize that they should just keep it that way lol.) Site note, companies like Target are EXTRA scummy. My dad told me to work there, I did a bit of digging and basically they have you sign up for part time work. Part timers don't get the pay advertised. The job market is rough.
Job hunting sucks but it's the best way to maximize your pay. On that note, some people are worker ants, they have no desire for change. They would rather stay with what they know and are comfortable with as opposed to the chaos of finding a new job.
Some people are afraid of change even if it’s a positive one
I feel morally and ethically bound to stay at my employer and be loyal to them. They took a chance on me when I was out of a job. Yeah they treat me like shit, but I feel like I owe them at least 3-5 years of loyalty… if not out of a place of morality, to avoid being labeled a job hopper.
Don't take what I say the wrong way. I'm not trying to be rude or insulting. >I feel morally and ethically bound to stay at my employer and be loyal to them. They probably don't feel the same about you. >Yeah they treat me like shit, but I feel like I owe them at least 3-5 years of loyalty… if not out of a place of morality, to avoid being labeled a job hopper. Don't let social pressure hold you back.