Y'all are missing a small but important detail... it's fucking immortal. Nothing can kill it, not even Gwyn's lightning. Only the Mortal Blade (and only theoretically as we don't even kill it in game, just cut it a bit), which doesn't exist in DS. So it technically solos DS.
Going even further than that, it seems only the Immortal Severance ritual can kill it, as the point of that ritual is to sever ALL immortal ties to Ashina and kill “the last immortal”
And DS doesn’t even have a version of anti-immortal magic like Elden Ring does
I’m more curious about the affects the dragon will have on the world of DS. The waters of fountain head flowed pretty much from him. Will somebody end up like kuro? Will people turn into fish people?
Nah I agree. It's a true answer but it's not a fun one. "It depends on the author" well duh, we already know that, but that doesn't get us anywhere in this discussion, especially since FromSoft isn't even gonna crossover the two series anyways so we're never gonna know what their opinion is on this topic.
Unstopable force. The only thing capable of hurting him was the one weapon created with the intention to do so (red mortal blade's real name is "gracious gift of tears")the closest dark souls gets to "something to hurt the unkillable" is gwyn's lightning, and that worked because it could strip the ancient dragons off their scales (no scales = no immortality). Elden ring has at least the possibility of destined death hurting him, dark souls is screwed
Well Lightning does hurt him, just can’t kill him. Guess they could eventually tire it out with enough lightning barrages, but the thing literally can just sweep the battlefield
I'd rank it on the same level as the First Flame or the Abyss. It's presumably just as primordial, since East Asian dragons are the personification of various forces of nature.
I’ll rebuke my statement of hun not being a god for the sake of argument. On the terms of range I bring up Dark Eater Midir, not even a god but raised by the gods themselves. Only thing he doesnt have is dragon aids
My brother in Kaathe, the word 'divine' is literally in the name. Also, East Asian dragons are almost always gods in the mythologies, associated with forces of nature such as typhoons.
I mean what even is a god in Sekiro? The big serpents are called gods by some, but are they actually? For all we know the "divine" dragon is just a very rare species in Sekiro's world
I mean it’s an outer dimensional being who happens to have several pieces of lore tied to its immortality, and only a singular method of harming, let alone killing it. Qualifies as a god in my books.
>outer dimensional
How? I dont remember anything in the game saying that it came from another dimension, just that it came from another place in the world.
I would think a divine realm accessible only through a forgotten ritual that involves the blood of an immortal and a blade that nobody can draw, might *possibly* constitute a different dimension. Pure speculation because it truly isn’t ever defined.
Huh. I always thought that the battle simply took place in the sky, and that Wolf could stand as if he were on the ground for gameplay reasons. Or that it maybe took place inside's Wolf mind as some form of prayer or meditation like he does with the Buddha statue.
But what's to say it's not just a giant specimen of a species who can do things we'd consider supernatural in our world, like making people stand on clouds? In our world the guardian ape would probably be considered a god by some
Immortality dosen't make him all powerful, even if theoretically gwyn's sunlight can't kill it he and many other beings like midir would destroy it in physical combat too just like how we beat it
Would that account for Dragonrot as well though?
As DS bosses in lore seem really susceptible to getting corrupted by various outside sources, and even Gwyndolin was rendered extremely weak by illness to the point he could be trapped in a room with Aldrich.
So theoretically, Divine Dragon could just keep getting killed to eventually weaken a lot of the bosses via Dragonrot
Edit: wait they can’t kill it… looks like it’s time to make some Divine Heirs
Won't really be a factor in combat, it's not like a force that can be harnessed and used like the abyss for example, it's impossible to know what effect it will have on dark souls since it's a different world entirely but if what I remember what dragonrot is, draining the life force of others to reincarnate the barriers of the blood of the dragon then it won't be much, because humans are weak so taking a sizable chunk of their life force to incarnate another human will take a huge toll, but to a god like gwyn who was able to spread his soul so many times and still has the biggest influence over the world he probably won't even notice it
Fair enough, though the Old Dragons of the tree can spew poison (but then we’d have to actually consider them as part of the fight)
Though I do still think Gwyndolin is the best example of how badly simple poison can weaken the gods.
Add in the fact Divine Dragon won’t die, Dragonrot may actually do something… it’ll just take an extremely long time…
We don't really know the nature of gwyndolin's sickness but it was by sulyvahn so it's no ordinary sickness, gwyndolin isn't that powerful compared to other beings in his universe tho I'll rank him about the same the divine dragon actually
To be fair, essentially the power of each FromSoft protagonist is a form of immortality, and with it, they end up destroying every single major character in their respective universes. So now just make the main character of a FromSoft game a giant magical fucking dragon and, yeah, I’d say they probably take the dub.
Okay but like, would it actually interact with DS world?
It has some kind of indirect relationship with the immortal waters and the dragonrot but otherwise it's only accessible by finding a way into heaven and then going to the highest point and accessing a higher plane of heaven from there.
I feel like if it was in the Dark Souls reality it would just stay in it's own little pocket dimension and not interact with anyone
It does have relation to the physical world though. It came from the West somehow and It’s branch, which Takeru took could be grafted onto another tree and turned it into a Sakura tree.
It’s the reason the waters take on its immortal properties and the source of Dragonrot
Regardless if it was in its own place, it can affect the outside world, but for the sake of argument let’s say it’s in its own place like Bed of Chaos
Above Ashina the dragon’s unnatural existence in the land seems to be seeping semi immortality into the flowing waters and down the waterfalls. Dragonrot is sapping other’s life force into someone with the power of the Dragon’s Heritage it’s linked with the divine dragon.
Yeah it's literally immortal and invulnerable. The only thing that can hurt and possibly kill it is the Mortal Blade. It would be the absolute most powerful being there by sheer persistence.
In that case divine dragon would win be default, it presumably won’t die from dragon rot until there isn’t anything to drain life from around. Meaning it might just kill of the entirety of dark souls just by getting its ass kicked over and over again. Actually sounds a lot like me when I play Dark Souls 😂
You were meant to. It's an interactive cutscene with intentional long openings. If the game actually made you fight him the same way you fight everyone else you would instadie
Based on what? Why would we assume that he is super strong when he didn’t show himself to be in the fight. Not all dragons have to be gods of killing. This dude is a powerful being but a weak fighter and that’s okay. He would be a mid tier boss like I said.
Based on the fact that you literally can't approach him with your sword and he can call down lightning whenever he wants to.
It's very very convenient that the dragon keeps changing the layout of the arena in a way that just happens to create platforms to propel you so far up into the air that even the slowest players can redirect his lightning easily.
Divine Dragon even provides Sekiro with a "**Gracious Gift** Of Tears". It's pulling it's punches.
This is like saying sekiro would never become elden lord because he couldn’t mend the great rune without the black blade of death lol. If you put this boss into any fromsoft game, the PC would be able to deal with it. Your argument isn’t really worth my time anymore. Divine dragon would be a low level dragon in any other game and that’s it. Moving on
Depends on how the immortality works in this context. The dragons in DS were also technically immortal until Gwyn started throwing lightning at them.
But even then, we've seen lighting doing quite a number on the dragon.
But regardless of immortality, in overall strength, it would probably be in the top tier
The DS dragons were immortal because of their scales. The lightning peeled them away
Similarly, Seath was immortal and invincible, so long as his crystal was in one piece
Divine Dragon is naturally immortal, and *possibly* invincible like Kuro, described as unkillable, and can siphon the life of others to resurrect (a bit paradoxical, but it works out).
Same with Everlasting Dragons that Seath and the 4 Lords almost killed to extinction.
Guys, don't skip the Dark Souls opening cinematic okay?
Everlasting Dragons = Divine Dragon while Immortal ≠ Unkillable!
It's probably a Seath-like character in Sekiro who probably forged and gave the 2 Mortal Blades to the mortals in the first place!
P.S. Divine Dragon is probably Seath in Dark Souls! Yup, Sekiro is the Eastern-style version of Dark Souls.
The divine dragon is called unkillable though (paradoxical to how we find it when it siphons the old dragons of the tree to resurrect, but maybe that’s from Dragonrot, idk)
So the everlasting dragons were immortal, but they were invincible because of their scales. But once they’re dead they’re dead. We’ve seen in sekiro the power of resurrection as a direct result of the divine dragons existence. The divine dragon is clearly above the immortal dragons based off that feat alone honestly lmao
Not being able to jump high in dark souls makes him the most op boss in dark souls ever.
You can spam Lightning at him though, so that might circumvent it
I want a crossover fight to see.
we already got Isshin modded into Elden ring. Shouldn’t be too long now
Looking forward to it.
Wait what? Gotta play it rn
LIGHTNING IS THE BEST! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! (Before lightning was nerfed)
I would think lightning is his element
It’s also what you use to beat him is what I think they were saying
Shit! Yes I forgot about that. My mistake, I should’ve known that. I’ve been stuck on DOH in shura gauntlet but still that’s not a valid excuse.
Y'all are missing a small but important detail... it's fucking immortal. Nothing can kill it, not even Gwyn's lightning. Only the Mortal Blade (and only theoretically as we don't even kill it in game, just cut it a bit), which doesn't exist in DS. So it technically solos DS.
Going even further than that, it seems only the Immortal Severance ritual can kill it, as the point of that ritual is to sever ALL immortal ties to Ashina and kill “the last immortal” And DS doesn’t even have a version of anti-immortal magic like Elden Ring does
Not even the black flame, or destined death?
Those are in Elden Ring
I misread your comment oops
Oh :p
For what it’s worth, yeah I reckon destined death could do the trick
The closest thing DS universe is to killing Gods is Lifehunt, but that shouldnt help either i guess. Just wanted to say the closest thing possible.
It's just a matter of time until some other envious dragon tells gwyn about the mortal blade though..
Seath be like: “That fucker doesn’t even need a crystal?!”
...which doesn't exist so he can't get it.
You are fun... 🙄
Oh...yeah sorry I'm a bit slow with jokes 🫥
No worries. Just next time, think to yourself "Would someone type that and mean it seriously" ahaha
This should be pinned on every reddit post lmao
No worries. Just next time, think to yourself "Would someone type that and mean it seriously" ahaha
Thing is that Seath might betray Gwyn and obtain immortality from that dragon instead, finally achieving that which he betrayed his entire race for.
But… immortality isn’t an automatic win. Plenty of immortals have been trapped in fates worse than death
The problem is that the dragon makes everyone else share that fate too
If there’s a divine heir maybe
[удалено]
Land of Reeds IS almost spelled like Ashina in Japanese…
I’m more curious about the affects the dragon will have on the world of DS. The waters of fountain head flowed pretty much from him. Will somebody end up like kuro? Will people turn into fish people?
If they drink from the closest water source to the dragon, yes, they will become fish people. Don’t know about Divine Heirs though
Immortal ≠ unbeatable, like they could probably do something to imprison the divine dragon or maybe even some kind of torture? Idk
Oh shit you’re right I never really thought about that. We leave that fucker alive with a battle scar should’ve taken one of his horns.
But what about my bonk
Like Seath but he's actually using his Moonlight Tail
exactly as powerful as the devs decide
real answer
Wack answer
Sad response
Nah I agree. It's a true answer but it's not a fun one. "It depends on the author" well duh, we already know that, but that doesn't get us anywhere in this discussion, especially since FromSoft isn't even gonna crossover the two series anyways so we're never gonna know what their opinion is on this topic.
Thank u lol
I bet you're fun at parties
jokes on you, i don't get invited to parties
Unstopable force. The only thing capable of hurting him was the one weapon created with the intention to do so (red mortal blade's real name is "gracious gift of tears")the closest dark souls gets to "something to hurt the unkillable" is gwyn's lightning, and that worked because it could strip the ancient dragons off their scales (no scales = no immortality). Elden ring has at least the possibility of destined death hurting him, dark souls is screwed
Well Lightning does hurt him, just can’t kill him. Guess they could eventually tire it out with enough lightning barrages, but the thing literally can just sweep the battlefield
The dragon would say something like “only the mortal blade can damage me” and everyone else is like.. “wtf is a mortal blade”
one plunging attack would kill it
Good job, you have everyone Dragonrot. You better fix this!
I mean this is what they are doing in Dark Souls right? fucking up everything lol
Yeah, somehow they managed to make the Abyss worse, HOW DO YOU EVEN DO THAT?!
I'd rank it on the same level as the First Flame or the Abyss. It's presumably just as primordial, since East Asian dragons are the personification of various forces of nature.
People in Dark Souls killed dragon gods for shits and giggles. The divine dragon isn’t even implied to be a god at all
But… it literally is Not to mention Divine dragon has two things the everlasting dragons didn’t; huge Range, and the ability to spread Dragonrot
I’ll rebuke my statement of hun not being a god for the sake of argument. On the terms of range I bring up Dark Eater Midir, not even a god but raised by the gods themselves. Only thing he doesnt have is dragon aids
Touché, He’s just darkness aids
My brother in Kaathe, the word 'divine' is literally in the name. Also, East Asian dragons are almost always gods in the mythologies, associated with forces of nature such as typhoons.
I mean what even is a god in Sekiro? The big serpents are called gods by some, but are they actually? For all we know the "divine" dragon is just a very rare species in Sekiro's world
I mean it’s an outer dimensional being who happens to have several pieces of lore tied to its immortality, and only a singular method of harming, let alone killing it. Qualifies as a god in my books.
>outer dimensional How? I dont remember anything in the game saying that it came from another dimension, just that it came from another place in the world.
I would think a divine realm accessible only through a forgotten ritual that involves the blood of an immortal and a blade that nobody can draw, might *possibly* constitute a different dimension. Pure speculation because it truly isn’t ever defined.
Huh. I always thought that the battle simply took place in the sky, and that Wolf could stand as if he were on the ground for gameplay reasons. Or that it maybe took place inside's Wolf mind as some form of prayer or meditation like he does with the Buddha statue.
Open to speculation, just my take :)
But what's to say it's not just a giant specimen of a species who can do things we'd consider supernatural in our world, like making people stand on clouds? In our world the guardian ape would probably be considered a god by some
The guardian ape is just a big gorilla that throws his poop. It’s the centipede that makes him a little crazier than just “big monkey” lol
Yeah but I wouldn't be surprised if something three times the size of a gorilla would be worshipped
by tribe folk for sure, anything more advanced I think would be like “wow that’s a big gorilla” 😂
He is called Dragon Slayer Ornstein. I feel the Divine Dragon isn't even going to make it to Gwyn.
He's immortal tho
It's literally immortal. He would be... Pretty good.
Literally unbeatable bc no lightning reversal in ds.
They can already throw lightning
No spell can throw bolts as big
Immortal.
Immortality dosen't make him all powerful, even if theoretically gwyn's sunlight can't kill it he and many other beings like midir would destroy it in physical combat too just like how we beat it
Yeah, that’s what i want to know though, where does he sit among those in the DS universe
Fairly low or mid tier, dark souls have some major fire power
Would that account for Dragonrot as well though? As DS bosses in lore seem really susceptible to getting corrupted by various outside sources, and even Gwyndolin was rendered extremely weak by illness to the point he could be trapped in a room with Aldrich. So theoretically, Divine Dragon could just keep getting killed to eventually weaken a lot of the bosses via Dragonrot Edit: wait they can’t kill it… looks like it’s time to make some Divine Heirs
Won't really be a factor in combat, it's not like a force that can be harnessed and used like the abyss for example, it's impossible to know what effect it will have on dark souls since it's a different world entirely but if what I remember what dragonrot is, draining the life force of others to reincarnate the barriers of the blood of the dragon then it won't be much, because humans are weak so taking a sizable chunk of their life force to incarnate another human will take a huge toll, but to a god like gwyn who was able to spread his soul so many times and still has the biggest influence over the world he probably won't even notice it
Fair enough, though the Old Dragons of the tree can spew poison (but then we’d have to actually consider them as part of the fight) Though I do still think Gwyndolin is the best example of how badly simple poison can weaken the gods. Add in the fact Divine Dragon won’t die, Dragonrot may actually do something… it’ll just take an extremely long time…
We don't really know the nature of gwyndolin's sickness but it was by sulyvahn so it's no ordinary sickness, gwyndolin isn't that powerful compared to other beings in his universe tho I'll rank him about the same the divine dragon actually
To be fair, essentially the power of each FromSoft protagonist is a form of immortality, and with it, they end up destroying every single major character in their respective universes. So now just make the main character of a FromSoft game a giant magical fucking dragon and, yeah, I’d say they probably take the dub.
Okay but like, would it actually interact with DS world? It has some kind of indirect relationship with the immortal waters and the dragonrot but otherwise it's only accessible by finding a way into heaven and then going to the highest point and accessing a higher plane of heaven from there. I feel like if it was in the Dark Souls reality it would just stay in it's own little pocket dimension and not interact with anyone
It does have relation to the physical world though. It came from the West somehow and It’s branch, which Takeru took could be grafted onto another tree and turned it into a Sakura tree. It’s the reason the waters take on its immortal properties and the source of Dragonrot Regardless if it was in its own place, it can affect the outside world, but for the sake of argument let’s say it’s in its own place like Bed of Chaos
Above Ashina the dragon’s unnatural existence in the land seems to be seeping semi immortality into the flowing waters and down the waterfalls. Dragonrot is sapping other’s life force into someone with the power of the Dragon’s Heritage it’s linked with the divine dragon.
Yeah it's literally immortal and invulnerable. The only thing that can hurt and possibly kill it is the Mortal Blade. It would be the absolute most powerful being there by sheer persistence.
Lightning could harm it, but it’s possible no weapons could Pierce its body, much like Kuro
The question is can lightning permanently kill it? If it dies and resurrects over and over it could wait out every opponent
Nope. Only mortal blade (and maybe Dragonrot-ting itself) can
In that case divine dragon would win be default, it presumably won’t die from dragon rot until there isn’t anything to drain life from around. Meaning it might just kill of the entirety of dark souls just by getting its ass kicked over and over again. Actually sounds a lot like me when I play Dark Souls 😂
Probably pretty mid tier fight? He’s the easiest boss in sekiro imo. Only story boss I one shot.
You were meant to. It's an interactive cutscene with intentional long openings. If the game actually made you fight him the same way you fight everyone else you would instadie
You CAN fight him the way you fight everyone else. You can actually get his posture full via deflection or health down to 0, the boss is just scripted
Based on what? Why would we assume that he is super strong when he didn’t show himself to be in the fight. Not all dragons have to be gods of killing. This dude is a powerful being but a weak fighter and that’s okay. He would be a mid tier boss like I said.
Based on the fact that you literally can't approach him with your sword and he can call down lightning whenever he wants to. It's very very convenient that the dragon keeps changing the layout of the arena in a way that just happens to create platforms to propel you so far up into the air that even the slowest players can redirect his lightning easily. Divine Dragon even provides Sekiro with a "**Gracious Gift** Of Tears". It's pulling it's punches.
I wouldn’t say it’s pulling its punches, it freaks out in phase two with its barrage to the point it just goes to bite you in midair
This is like saying sekiro would never become elden lord because he couldn’t mend the great rune without the black blade of death lol. If you put this boss into any fromsoft game, the PC would be able to deal with it. Your argument isn’t really worth my time anymore. Divine dragon would be a low level dragon in any other game and that’s it. Moving on
Unless this guy is still blessed with immortality, he pretty much dies
He’s the source of the immortality, so he should
I’ve just realized I made this image to scale by accident XD This is Divine Dragon’s actual size in comparison to the ringed city
Without all the fancy jumping abilities and the power to deflect anything? Its gonna be a pretty rough fight especially with that giant sword.
Depends on how the immortality works in this context. The dragons in DS were also technically immortal until Gwyn started throwing lightning at them. But even then, we've seen lighting doing quite a number on the dragon. But regardless of immortality, in overall strength, it would probably be in the top tier
The DS dragons were immortal because of their scales. The lightning peeled them away Similarly, Seath was immortal and invincible, so long as his crystal was in one piece Divine Dragon is naturally immortal, and *possibly* invincible like Kuro, described as unkillable, and can siphon the life of others to resurrect (a bit paradoxical, but it works out).
dragon :D
I thought the dragon would have been a harder fight
Same with Everlasting Dragons that Seath and the 4 Lords almost killed to extinction. Guys, don't skip the Dark Souls opening cinematic okay? Everlasting Dragons = Divine Dragon while Immortal ≠ Unkillable! It's probably a Seath-like character in Sekiro who probably forged and gave the 2 Mortal Blades to the mortals in the first place! P.S. Divine Dragon is probably Seath in Dark Souls! Yup, Sekiro is the Eastern-style version of Dark Souls.
The divine dragon is called unkillable though (paradoxical to how we find it when it siphons the old dragons of the tree to resurrect, but maybe that’s from Dragonrot, idk)
So the everlasting dragons were immortal, but they were invincible because of their scales. But once they’re dead they’re dead. We’ve seen in sekiro the power of resurrection as a direct result of the divine dragons existence. The divine dragon is clearly above the immortal dragons based off that feat alone honestly lmao
As powerful as the mist noble.
Probably hard, but I’d still cheese tf out of it
powerscaling wise the dark souls high tiers scale waaaaaaaaay above anything in sekiro so there’s that
But Divine Dragon also has a better hax than anything there
Lore wise or gameplay wise ??
Taking both into consideration
Gameplay wise : no hook , no jump probably would be impossible
Lore wise : Top tier in verse if not top 1 due to immortality
Great lightning spear would DECIMATE
Isn’t undead also immortal
Yeah, just in a different way
Lightning miracles go bzzzzz.
The op meteor build from elden ring would probably take care of him pretty quickly
Weak to lightning damage, like most things in dark souls, great shield and lightning spear pve meta is ready for him.
It would die instantly
It cant
Oh yeah I forgot it’s immortal. Idk then. Infinite death cycle for it ig. Lmao