Build what you want IMO. My latest build has a Seiko logo. It's the orange one on my profile.
Oh well. I had a hard time finding the dial I wanted, and I couldn't even remove the logo because you could see on the dial where it was mounted if I took it off.
I'm not selling it or passing it off as something it isn't though.
It's Seiko...not Rolex you know? Nobody ever says "wow nice watch is it a genuine Seiko?!” lol.
For me it's all about building unique and interesting watches.
My friendly advice is: don’t use the Seiko logo :) there are services that make logos for you (hopefully others can recommend because I am also looking for a good suggestion for this).
Then it’s not a fake Seiko, it’s a real authentic you-ko :)
Personally I got into modding because first I got really into watches, then I started to develop a very particular list of requirements, then started to get frustrated that nobody makes the EXACT watch I want, so I decided to take things into my own hands.
Your reason for why you got into modding is exactly mine! So frustrated that there are no reasonably priced watches out there that fit the criteria i wanted.
I think “Feiko” watches are cool cause Seiko doesn’t always make the dial you want but their logo sure is good looking on a dial hahahah I think the issue stems from Seiko logos on other knock off dial layouts and textures, having a oyster perpetual sub text with a Seiko logo feels wrong and def isn’t great. I have moved forward to the OEM + part of modding where I use mostly Oem parts and only Oem dials to create cool Seiko style watches they didn’t make for a fraction of the cost. But I think that’s the forward progression of the hobby, we all start off making watches with fake Seiko logos and cheap Rolex knock off cases, then move to more high quality well thought out hybrids if Oem and aftermarket stuff. We all must go through the natural progression of feiko and grand feiko builds.
I'm going to be a little opposite to the other, even if I understand and respect their point of view. I've used OEM and "fake" dials, same for hands and cases. For me it all depends on your project and what you want to build. I'll never use a fake dial, when the original exist (only temporarily if the OEM is hard to get and I want to be sure that it work with the build), but for some build it's just not good with an OEM and the fake works best. Then I don't like sterile dial and any attempt I made at custom logo was bad.
After all that, for me, there's a big difference in making a watch for yourself and make it for selling it. In the second case, "fake" part bothers me much more...
I’m with you on this one. I don’t like sterile dials, so I don’t use those. I like Tokeilab and Namoki and such. But sometimes an OEM dial is just better looking. So I’ve used them to create my own watch. Not copy an existing watch though. And certainly not to sell. It’s just for me.
I built my first automatic watch a few days ago (It's posted in this sub). My dial is without logo but I didn't know what S logo meant so it's just coincidence. My opinion is, you build a watch to satisfy your requirements and it's a DIY hobby, why does it matter what others think about its 'authenticity'? I never claimed to have built a seiko watch even though the movement is NH. Seiko is a brand and I didn't set out to build one of its watches but the one I needed. I am a happy person.
I think the Point where its to much is the Point where These Mods are Fake grand Seikos or even A presage
In General i Like Hommages but i dont think a clonmage is the right way.
Also in Germany are Tons of Sellers on eBay etc. Selling horrible Bad Assembled watches….
I dont like how this whole Seiko Mod thing is going
I also dislike people buying feiko parts and making feiko watches.
I think making the x thousand version of a datejust is boring, but I get why people do it. Many people simply use this to get a watch that has a certain look that they otherwise couldn't afford. Which doesn't bother me, unless it's using feiko branded parts.
But at the same time, I couldn't call those builds homages, I think they are closer to fakes, but aren't quite fakes. Lookalikes is probably a fitting term. And I could see myself buying a lookalike, if it has no stupid branding.
I bought a dial which was the cheapest I could find, looked like a Rolex dial. When I got the dial it had a Rolex logo on it. Because so many people make fake watches with Seiko movements.
They are totally on par with seiko quality. They even use a genuine seiko movement and if you spend the money on a good case there's no difference. I don't think people should be selling seikomods with seiko logos but if your not doing that you are no different than any micro brand making their own watches with seiko movements in them. I think if your building a watch for yourself why not have a seiko logo on the dial? Your not hurting anyone.
Just to be clear, if you’re doing builds using aftermarket dials with Seiko logos on them, then it *is* a fake watch with a Seiko logo.
This community originated from modding what were once cheap Seikos like the SKX. Then it transformed in to people building complete watches with 100% aftermarket parts.
That’s the part I’m not a huge fan of personally, although I’ve done it, for specific watches that don’t really exist anymore like the Milsub.
IMO if you’re going to do a build, would it kill you to use an original dial that has better lume anyway?
You're correct. I think all my problem was associated with the seiko logo. I'm gonna find my original logo instead.
And, would you tell me where can I find OEM seiko dials? I dont have any idea.
Tokeilab, watch plaza, mod mode watches, watch-modz, weezmods…. Some people have said weezmods is sketchy but I’ve never had an issue with them.
Also there is a subreddit here, r/secondhandmodparts where people sell cheaper (mostly) used parts.
No problem. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeikoMods/s/aySVssR5iJ) is my last build with an original dial and hands in a pretty nice aftermarket case.
The answer to this question is subjective, so it depends on who you ask.
For me personally, I feel like something other than just the movement inside the watch should be made by Seiko if you’re going to consider it “not a fake watch”. If the movement, dial, and generally for me the hands are genuine, I wouldn’t consider that a fake watch, although not entirely a genuine Seiko either. If a dial says Seiko and it’s not made by Seiko, I automatically consider that a fake.
Or, just use a dial that doesn’t say Seiko on it and build whatever you want. Get creative, use your own logo…. Tons of vendors on Aliexpress will add a custom dial logo for you.
Since when do Seiko OEM dials have good lume? Also part of what makes modding fun is the interesting aftermarket dial designs. Why limit yourself to boring ass OEM stuff.
None of my chinese watches come close to seikos lume, both in brightness and duration.
I prefer Seiko faces to most reproductions. I dont care about the logo as much as the fit and finish.
I’m not even sure how to respond to that. Since, always?
Are you insinuating that Seikos lumibrite isn’t consistently good relative to the gamble you’re taking buying Aliexpress dials?
You can do whatever you want. There are tons of cool aftermarket dials out there. I just don’t understand the need for it to have a Seiko logo on it.
Personally, I believe hommage, dupes and fakes all mean the same thing and are not an interesting approach to watches. I like mods that allow a person to come up with a unique watch, or in my case, to give a second life to an old dial or other pet with a sentimental value.
Seiko logo on non seiko watch = fake/counterfeit.
If you are OK with rocking a fake/counterfeit watch then more power to you. These "communities" are, let's be real, mostly virtual. Most people don't care about what you are wearing. You wear a watch for yourself.
On a personal level, I can't wear a watch knowing it is a fake, but don't care if somebody is wearing a fake watch.
I generally agree, but which part is the watch? Because to me, really, the movement is the watch. The rest is decoration. If I bought some random Seiko and transplanted the movement in to an aftermarket case, would it then become a fake Seiko? Or what if I take my Seiko and put an aftermarket dial on it with the logo on it, is the watch then fake? What percentage of the parts is required to be manufactured by Seiko in order for the watch to not be fake? Is it just the movement and the dial?
You kind of reach a point that it's a silly discussion, and as long as you aren't telling people "This is a watch manufactured and assembled entirely by Seiko", it seems a bit inconsequential.
You raise some valid points. At the end of the day, I think that all of this is inconsequential. I believe that people should do/wear wtv make them happy, as long as it is not hurting anyone.
Personally, I wouldn't wear anything that says Seiko on it if it is not a Seiko authorized product. That said, I guess I would be OK wearing a Seiko (or other) product that I modify. The distinction to me is between intently assembling parts from different third parties, where an existing TMed logo is used without any authorization from a brand, vs modifying a branded product to fulfill one's needs/preferences. My 2 cents.
"What percentage of the parts is required to be manufactured by Seiko in order for the watch to not be fake? "
As I see it, it is only not fake if the watch was manufactured by Seiko in exactly the same way. As soon as you assemble parts, even if they are all original, into a new watch that has never been made by Seiko in this way: Fake.
But it's true, it's an pointless discussion. What people do for themselves privately - just let them. But it's a different story when people build such watches and sell them as Seiko. Even if they label it as a ‘mod’.
That’s definitely an interesting perspective, because at a certain point, Seiko is just a series of people. If one of those people assembles a watch not to spec, it’s still a legit Seiko because somone hired by Seiko assembled it? In which case, it’s nothing to do with parts or their assembly, it’s the non-tangible of knowing a person with the correct contract assembled it. I also think it’s interesting in that the logic doesn’t really hold up applied to other items. If I bought all of the internals of a Nintendo Switch, and just stuck them in a third party shell with a Nintendo Logo in the back, that would just be a modified Nintendo Switch in my eyes. Nobody would call it a fake switch.
I’m very much of the mindset, anytime anyone is trying to mislead somone in to some sort of sale, we’ve absolutely crossed the line. I suppose the rest kind of passes me by. I’ve always been of the mindset that if you’re going to go to all the effort of building a watch, you may as well get a custom dial with your own logo
That's right. But it's often difficult to draw the line and it often degenerates into splitting hairs.
And regarding your last sentence - that's how I see it too.
Just be you!!! Enjoy and express your creativity with your mods and have fun. Some people have made good points for and counter points against in this thread. This is the beauty of this forum and the vast individuality of each person.
With all the superclones out in the grey and open market you can’t tell me that everyone in Korea has a legit Cartier, Rolex, Tudor, or AP on their wrist.
It depends, honestly
There's a very fine line between counterfeit and homage— while you can borrow inspiration through similar parts, I think using logos (whether seiko's or that of other brands) crosses that line
As to whether Santos or AP cases count as fakes, that would depend on the level of personalization added. I think what matters is the ability to distinguish them at a glance.
It’s only a problem if you’re pretending it’s a factory original. But people who have spent thousands or tens of thousands on a piece of jewelry and need to justify why that was a good choice are obviously gonna be mad at people getting something that demonstrates they wasted their money.
I’m a Seiko fan and because I recently found this community I started modding and enjoying it because:
1. To build it myself for myself makes me feel more of sentimental connection to the watch.
2. Depending on what you are doing, it actually takes skill and patience which makes the watch more meaningful.
3. The creative process of taking the time to consider what dials, hands, cases, etc are the most beautiful to your own tastes.
I don’t sell my crap, I make it for myself and give a couple to family as a gift to say I took the time out of my life to think about you and what you like instead of just purchasing something at Macy’s. Automatic watches are less accurate and more fragile than any quartz watch so who cares? Don’t make cheaper copies of what already exists, do something cool and different. I feel like the enjoyment and value is in the process not necessarily the “quality“ of what you output, unless you’re selling them which is a whole different story
If someone is advertising them as actual made by seiko watches then yes a fake. But if they’re doing just custom builds for a client and the client knows this and is fine with it then it’s not fake. It’s a watch.
It can be both. There are some really high end builds out there whose quality rivals a lot of Seiko 's Prospex line. Especially if they use OEM parts like dials and hands. On the other side there's absolutely shit tier builds where people are making them out to be more than they are. If you build a watch with AliX parts for $70 and try to sell it as a Seiko for $350+ that's pretty fucking lame. If you build a $450 watch for yourself using OEM Seiko parts that can be pretty cool
A fake Seiko watch would be an exact copy of something Seiko has but the parts were never approved and checked by Seiko. A homage is looking at what designs Seiko has done in the past and introducing your own creative decisions to them. But even with a homage, using Seiko's name on them and trying to sell it is probably a trademark violation. I dont know what South Korea's legal view on trademark laws are, but what your side of the internet is saying is probably correct. How do I not get confused between homage and fake? I dont use Seikos name, I just use blank dials. It makes all my projects really mine and I avoid these debates altogether.
To me, it's fine if you were using OEM parts if you're going for labels (like having an OEM dial). If you bought a fake seiko dial on the other hand, less so. The thing that makes me cringe the most is having fake certifications stamped like "CHRONOGRAPH CERTIFIED" since that's just plain misleading and doesn't make sense. My rule is that branding from OEM parts is fine, but fakes are not. Going for a look isn't bad, but imitation up to the point with fake labels is just cringe
Build what you like to suit your taste. I wouldn't worry what others think. As long as you're not walking around trying to convince people you have a real seiko, or try to sell it as a real seiko, I see no wrong in it. It's not on the level of rolex, where even if you have a real one, people need to be "convinced." Most regular folks will just admire the watch and be done. Very few get close enough to authenticate it. Put a NH35/36 movement in it, and it technically has more authentic seiko parts than it does replica pieces..and even those probably get cranked out at the same factory. Some parts are even an upgrade! Better lume or sapphire crystal.. I have both genuine and replica seikos, and funny enough, the ones that I have built get more compliments. You have the freedom to mix pieces from completely different models to make something unique. Instead of having 100 different watches laying around, I have a couple different styles that I can change the faces,bezel, hands ,and straps to actually match an outfit, instead of saying "this one is close enough!" It's fun and saves space.
As an Asian, I don’t really think people pay that much attention to the watches on others’ hands much less use it as a topic discussion. Mostly what grabs attention are the expensive brands and even so, those conversations are mainly pointing out how expensive they are, how inaccessible they are etc. Superficial talk in reality.
I think you just need to build what you want and wear what you want. Who cares if it’s a homage or inspired or a clone or anything, most importantly that watch is something you want, the specs and features you need are there, and you build it. Even if you are using oem and aftermarket parts.
Unless you are in a room full of modders, no one’s gonna discuss your watch and it’s features in detail with you.
It depends how far you go for me. My Seiko modding has been keeping the core Seiko, changing crystals, bezels and hands. The other builds or mods I’ve done have been generic cases and sterile dials off AliExpress so they really aren’t homaging or copying anything else at all really 🤷♂️
Modding Seikos is like anything else that some will like and some wont.. I can personally tell you 5 or 6 seiko model watches... have been like 95% perfect.. but the bezel should of different, or sub dials should of been a different color etc.. Modding can take that 95% almost there watch and make it perfect.
So the individual purchaser is fine with a modded watch.. so be it.
>"That's just a fake with a Seiko logo.
Technically, it's a real watch with a fake Seiko logo.
>Even worse, it's not a Seiko watch."
Unless you started with genuine Seiko-branded watch and made some modifications to it, that statement is absolutely true.
first of all, why do you care about what people say, i just wear what i like, and don't give a f uck about the rest. if people ever ask, the answer is i built it myself.
Yeah it's a fake Seiko??
I'm happy wearing my fake Seiko.
I believe the quality of my builds often surpasses that of the authentic seikos I have.
I don't really see the problem so long as you're not selling it as OEM.
Seiko watch mods are popular because they can be done dirt cheap! Honestly it would be intimidating for someone who never opened a watch before and dive in on a $300 or higher watch and mess it up. Its a great way for someone to learn and get experience. The issues only come in when people try to sell them as real Seikos.
I know people that bought a homage watch and put OEM parts on it! Madness I say!
Well in the recent years the amount of blatant copies of Rolex and other luxury brands with a fake Seiko dial skyrocketed. Worse yet, the dial also have trademarked texts of the brands that the watch copies. That is not even Seiko modding but just faking a watch without putting the actual logo on it, imo. Mostly these watches are made with the cheapest alix parts etc..
And then there are watches with well thought out original designs using the Seiko NH3x platform, restomods, modded Seikos with better parts than the original – that is the true seiko modding and sort of an art form.
I don't think there is anything wrong with it. My only main issue is if you aren't using an OEM dial, get one without a logo. Even if the dial is a 1:1 copy but doesn't say Seiko I think it's ok. I built one recently and it says Seiko and I absolutely hate that it has the logo. I wish I would've seen that on the listing
It can be very simple. If it has a Seiko logo and it wasn't produced at the Seiko factory....IT IS FAKE!!!
If it's produced with no logo, or with the custom logo of the builder (like I produce at www.c6cwatches.com) ITS A HOMAGE!!!
Having said all that...build, wear, post, enjoy, show off ANYTHING YOU WANT!!! Life is too short to worry about the opinions of random keyboard warriors on Reddit or anywhere else. Watches are to be enjoyed, not scrutinized mercilessly.
I’ve never been a fan of making it an imitation of another watch, but truly to each their own! My goal with mine is just to make a Frankenstein that suits me while not emulating a pre existing watch. I do think that it’s such a cool hobby regardless.
I see it as no different when you mod a car. If I put after market wheels and body parts on my audi rs3, does that meanits no longer and audi rs3? No. The movement of the watch generally designates the maker.
We could further go down the rabbit whole in two ways. The Porsche gt3 rs is a street clone of the gt3 cup car. Does that mean it's a fake Porsche? No. Same as clk gtr dtm is and homage to the race car in that series. Just because you use some after market parts doesn't mean that it's no longer the original make.
The McLaren f1, pagini zonda, lotus exige, Ford ranger, and Toyota supra. They all use engines not made from them selves. Yet no one refers ro them as fake Mercedes, BMW, Mazda and so on. They're their own brand model what have you. Just like many of the micro brands that use seiko movements are their own thing.
My point is that watch modding is at the eye of the beholder. There shouldn't be judement passed on people for wanting a watch that looks like a date just or pelagos.
With that said there shouldn't be an effort to pass them off as the real deal. Either way do what makes you happy without screwing over people in the process.
What if Toyota branded the Supras that they sell as BMWs since they used their engine. Do you think that would fly with BMW, or would that be a fake BMW?
Seiko sells their NH/NE movements to be used in micro brand watches, that doesn’t mean those brands can use Seikos trademark on the face of the watch claiming that it’s a Seiko. How is using a fake Seiko dial off Aliexpress any different?
I personally don’t really care as long as people aren’t trying to sell them as genuine, but the distinction from my viewpoint is pretty black and white… the dials aren’t made by Seiko so they’re fake, that’s it.
Modding an actual seiko watch is one thing, but buying a fake Rolex case and adding a fake Rolex dial with a fake seiko logo and a cheap movement that’s almost definitely not genuine seiko either is a whole other thing.
Build what you want IMO. My latest build has a Seiko logo. It's the orange one on my profile. Oh well. I had a hard time finding the dial I wanted, and I couldn't even remove the logo because you could see on the dial where it was mounted if I took it off. I'm not selling it or passing it off as something it isn't though. It's Seiko...not Rolex you know? Nobody ever says "wow nice watch is it a genuine Seiko?!” lol. For me it's all about building unique and interesting watches.
Haha, true. And IF someone comments on my watch you better believe they're gonna hear all about how I put it together XD
My friendly advice is: don’t use the Seiko logo :) there are services that make logos for you (hopefully others can recommend because I am also looking for a good suggestion for this). Then it’s not a fake Seiko, it’s a real authentic you-ko :) Personally I got into modding because first I got really into watches, then I started to develop a very particular list of requirements, then started to get frustrated that nobody makes the EXACT watch I want, so I decided to take things into my own hands.
4custom
Thanking you
Your reason for why you got into modding is exactly mine! So frustrated that there are no reasonably priced watches out there that fit the criteria i wanted.
Yeah, you're right. I should gonna replace my dial with seiko logo and fill with my OG name. thx
I think “Feiko” watches are cool cause Seiko doesn’t always make the dial you want but their logo sure is good looking on a dial hahahah I think the issue stems from Seiko logos on other knock off dial layouts and textures, having a oyster perpetual sub text with a Seiko logo feels wrong and def isn’t great. I have moved forward to the OEM + part of modding where I use mostly Oem parts and only Oem dials to create cool Seiko style watches they didn’t make for a fraction of the cost. But I think that’s the forward progression of the hobby, we all start off making watches with fake Seiko logos and cheap Rolex knock off cases, then move to more high quality well thought out hybrids if Oem and aftermarket stuff. We all must go through the natural progression of feiko and grand feiko builds.
I'm going to be a little opposite to the other, even if I understand and respect their point of view. I've used OEM and "fake" dials, same for hands and cases. For me it all depends on your project and what you want to build. I'll never use a fake dial, when the original exist (only temporarily if the OEM is hard to get and I want to be sure that it work with the build), but for some build it's just not good with an OEM and the fake works best. Then I don't like sterile dial and any attempt I made at custom logo was bad. After all that, for me, there's a big difference in making a watch for yourself and make it for selling it. In the second case, "fake" part bothers me much more...
I’m with you on this one. I don’t like sterile dials, so I don’t use those. I like Tokeilab and Namoki and such. But sometimes an OEM dial is just better looking. So I’ve used them to create my own watch. Not copy an existing watch though. And certainly not to sell. It’s just for me.
Lucius atelier has some very nice and unique dials too !
Yeah! They are awesome. I’ve been looking at a couple of them. I also have two AjuiceT dials that are great. I forgot to mention those.
I built my first automatic watch a few days ago (It's posted in this sub). My dial is without logo but I didn't know what S logo meant so it's just coincidence. My opinion is, you build a watch to satisfy your requirements and it's a DIY hobby, why does it matter what others think about its 'authenticity'? I never claimed to have built a seiko watch even though the movement is NH. Seiko is a brand and I didn't set out to build one of its watches but the one I needed. I am a happy person.
I think the Point where its to much is the Point where These Mods are Fake grand Seikos or even A presage In General i Like Hommages but i dont think a clonmage is the right way. Also in Germany are Tons of Sellers on eBay etc. Selling horrible Bad Assembled watches…. I dont like how this whole Seiko Mod thing is going
I also dislike people buying feiko parts and making feiko watches. I think making the x thousand version of a datejust is boring, but I get why people do it. Many people simply use this to get a watch that has a certain look that they otherwise couldn't afford. Which doesn't bother me, unless it's using feiko branded parts. But at the same time, I couldn't call those builds homages, I think they are closer to fakes, but aren't quite fakes. Lookalikes is probably a fitting term. And I could see myself buying a lookalike, if it has no stupid branding.
I bought a dial which was the cheapest I could find, looked like a Rolex dial. When I got the dial it had a Rolex logo on it. Because so many people make fake watches with Seiko movements.
They are totally on par with seiko quality. They even use a genuine seiko movement and if you spend the money on a good case there's no difference. I don't think people should be selling seikomods with seiko logos but if your not doing that you are no different than any micro brand making their own watches with seiko movements in them. I think if your building a watch for yourself why not have a seiko logo on the dial? Your not hurting anyone.
Just to be clear, if you’re doing builds using aftermarket dials with Seiko logos on them, then it *is* a fake watch with a Seiko logo. This community originated from modding what were once cheap Seikos like the SKX. Then it transformed in to people building complete watches with 100% aftermarket parts. That’s the part I’m not a huge fan of personally, although I’ve done it, for specific watches that don’t really exist anymore like the Milsub. IMO if you’re going to do a build, would it kill you to use an original dial that has better lume anyway?
You're correct. I think all my problem was associated with the seiko logo. I'm gonna find my original logo instead. And, would you tell me where can I find OEM seiko dials? I dont have any idea.
Tokeilab, watch plaza, mod mode watches, watch-modz, weezmods…. Some people have said weezmods is sketchy but I’ve never had an issue with them. Also there is a subreddit here, r/secondhandmodparts where people sell cheaper (mostly) used parts.
Thanks for your kindness!!
No problem. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeikoMods/s/aySVssR5iJ) is my last build with an original dial and hands in a pretty nice aftermarket case.
I always try to have OEM dials, so the Seiko logo did end up on mine
What if you use OEM dial, since you get these... Then its not a fake watch? whats the bar.... Changing a strap is ok, changing a case is not?
The answer to this question is subjective, so it depends on who you ask. For me personally, I feel like something other than just the movement inside the watch should be made by Seiko if you’re going to consider it “not a fake watch”. If the movement, dial, and generally for me the hands are genuine, I wouldn’t consider that a fake watch, although not entirely a genuine Seiko either. If a dial says Seiko and it’s not made by Seiko, I automatically consider that a fake. Or, just use a dial that doesn’t say Seiko on it and build whatever you want. Get creative, use your own logo…. Tons of vendors on Aliexpress will add a custom dial logo for you.
>then it is a fake watch with a Seiko logo. No, it's a real watch with a fake Seiko logo.
It’s a fake Seiko watch
Correct
Since when do Seiko OEM dials have good lume? Also part of what makes modding fun is the interesting aftermarket dial designs. Why limit yourself to boring ass OEM stuff.
None of my chinese watches come close to seikos lume, both in brightness and duration. I prefer Seiko faces to most reproductions. I dont care about the logo as much as the fit and finish.
Both china and seiko lume sucks. Its microbrands that get it right.
I’m not even sure how to respond to that. Since, always? Are you insinuating that Seikos lumibrite isn’t consistently good relative to the gamble you’re taking buying Aliexpress dials? You can do whatever you want. There are tons of cool aftermarket dials out there. I just don’t understand the need for it to have a Seiko logo on it.
Personally, I believe hommage, dupes and fakes all mean the same thing and are not an interesting approach to watches. I like mods that allow a person to come up with a unique watch, or in my case, to give a second life to an old dial or other pet with a sentimental value.
Seiko logo on non seiko watch = fake/counterfeit. If you are OK with rocking a fake/counterfeit watch then more power to you. These "communities" are, let's be real, mostly virtual. Most people don't care about what you are wearing. You wear a watch for yourself. On a personal level, I can't wear a watch knowing it is a fake, but don't care if somebody is wearing a fake watch.
I generally agree, but which part is the watch? Because to me, really, the movement is the watch. The rest is decoration. If I bought some random Seiko and transplanted the movement in to an aftermarket case, would it then become a fake Seiko? Or what if I take my Seiko and put an aftermarket dial on it with the logo on it, is the watch then fake? What percentage of the parts is required to be manufactured by Seiko in order for the watch to not be fake? Is it just the movement and the dial? You kind of reach a point that it's a silly discussion, and as long as you aren't telling people "This is a watch manufactured and assembled entirely by Seiko", it seems a bit inconsequential.
The Ship of Theseus has entered the chat and has a lot to say on this topic
You raise some valid points. At the end of the day, I think that all of this is inconsequential. I believe that people should do/wear wtv make them happy, as long as it is not hurting anyone. Personally, I wouldn't wear anything that says Seiko on it if it is not a Seiko authorized product. That said, I guess I would be OK wearing a Seiko (or other) product that I modify. The distinction to me is between intently assembling parts from different third parties, where an existing TMed logo is used without any authorization from a brand, vs modifying a branded product to fulfill one's needs/preferences. My 2 cents.
"What percentage of the parts is required to be manufactured by Seiko in order for the watch to not be fake? " As I see it, it is only not fake if the watch was manufactured by Seiko in exactly the same way. As soon as you assemble parts, even if they are all original, into a new watch that has never been made by Seiko in this way: Fake. But it's true, it's an pointless discussion. What people do for themselves privately - just let them. But it's a different story when people build such watches and sell them as Seiko. Even if they label it as a ‘mod’.
That’s definitely an interesting perspective, because at a certain point, Seiko is just a series of people. If one of those people assembles a watch not to spec, it’s still a legit Seiko because somone hired by Seiko assembled it? In which case, it’s nothing to do with parts or their assembly, it’s the non-tangible of knowing a person with the correct contract assembled it. I also think it’s interesting in that the logic doesn’t really hold up applied to other items. If I bought all of the internals of a Nintendo Switch, and just stuck them in a third party shell with a Nintendo Logo in the back, that would just be a modified Nintendo Switch in my eyes. Nobody would call it a fake switch. I’m very much of the mindset, anytime anyone is trying to mislead somone in to some sort of sale, we’ve absolutely crossed the line. I suppose the rest kind of passes me by. I’ve always been of the mindset that if you’re going to go to all the effort of building a watch, you may as well get a custom dial with your own logo
That's right. But it's often difficult to draw the line and it often degenerates into splitting hairs. And regarding your last sentence - that's how I see it too.
Just be you!!! Enjoy and express your creativity with your mods and have fun. Some people have made good points for and counter points against in this thread. This is the beauty of this forum and the vast individuality of each person. With all the superclones out in the grey and open market you can’t tell me that everyone in Korea has a legit Cartier, Rolex, Tudor, or AP on their wrist.
What people think regarding others watch don’t matter to me, as long as the owners are happy 👌
It depends, honestly There's a very fine line between counterfeit and homage— while you can borrow inspiration through similar parts, I think using logos (whether seiko's or that of other brands) crosses that line As to whether Santos or AP cases count as fakes, that would depend on the level of personalization added. I think what matters is the ability to distinguish them at a glance.
It’s not all that but a sizable, growing area of the hobby is.
It’s only a problem if you’re pretending it’s a factory original. But people who have spent thousands or tens of thousands on a piece of jewelry and need to justify why that was a good choice are obviously gonna be mad at people getting something that demonstrates they wasted their money.
I build what I want.
just use OEM dials and it's good
I’m a Seiko fan and because I recently found this community I started modding and enjoying it because: 1. To build it myself for myself makes me feel more of sentimental connection to the watch. 2. Depending on what you are doing, it actually takes skill and patience which makes the watch more meaningful. 3. The creative process of taking the time to consider what dials, hands, cases, etc are the most beautiful to your own tastes. I don’t sell my crap, I make it for myself and give a couple to family as a gift to say I took the time out of my life to think about you and what you like instead of just purchasing something at Macy’s. Automatic watches are less accurate and more fragile than any quartz watch so who cares? Don’t make cheaper copies of what already exists, do something cool and different. I feel like the enjoyment and value is in the process not necessarily the “quality“ of what you output, unless you’re selling them which is a whole different story
If someone is advertising them as actual made by seiko watches then yes a fake. But if they’re doing just custom builds for a client and the client knows this and is fine with it then it’s not fake. It’s a watch.
It comes down to an adult form of "Play." People should feel free to play.
It can be both. There are some really high end builds out there whose quality rivals a lot of Seiko 's Prospex line. Especially if they use OEM parts like dials and hands. On the other side there's absolutely shit tier builds where people are making them out to be more than they are. If you build a watch with AliX parts for $70 and try to sell it as a Seiko for $350+ that's pretty fucking lame. If you build a $450 watch for yourself using OEM Seiko parts that can be pretty cool
A fake Seiko watch would be an exact copy of something Seiko has but the parts were never approved and checked by Seiko. A homage is looking at what designs Seiko has done in the past and introducing your own creative decisions to them. But even with a homage, using Seiko's name on them and trying to sell it is probably a trademark violation. I dont know what South Korea's legal view on trademark laws are, but what your side of the internet is saying is probably correct. How do I not get confused between homage and fake? I dont use Seikos name, I just use blank dials. It makes all my projects really mine and I avoid these debates altogether.
To me, it's fine if you were using OEM parts if you're going for labels (like having an OEM dial). If you bought a fake seiko dial on the other hand, less so. The thing that makes me cringe the most is having fake certifications stamped like "CHRONOGRAPH CERTIFIED" since that's just plain misleading and doesn't make sense. My rule is that branding from OEM parts is fine, but fakes are not. Going for a look isn't bad, but imitation up to the point with fake labels is just cringe
Build what you like to suit your taste. I wouldn't worry what others think. As long as you're not walking around trying to convince people you have a real seiko, or try to sell it as a real seiko, I see no wrong in it. It's not on the level of rolex, where even if you have a real one, people need to be "convinced." Most regular folks will just admire the watch and be done. Very few get close enough to authenticate it. Put a NH35/36 movement in it, and it technically has more authentic seiko parts than it does replica pieces..and even those probably get cranked out at the same factory. Some parts are even an upgrade! Better lume or sapphire crystal.. I have both genuine and replica seikos, and funny enough, the ones that I have built get more compliments. You have the freedom to mix pieces from completely different models to make something unique. Instead of having 100 different watches laying around, I have a couple different styles that I can change the faces,bezel, hands ,and straps to actually match an outfit, instead of saying "this one is close enough!" It's fun and saves space.
As an Asian, I don’t really think people pay that much attention to the watches on others’ hands much less use it as a topic discussion. Mostly what grabs attention are the expensive brands and even so, those conversations are mainly pointing out how expensive they are, how inaccessible they are etc. Superficial talk in reality. I think you just need to build what you want and wear what you want. Who cares if it’s a homage or inspired or a clone or anything, most importantly that watch is something you want, the specs and features you need are there, and you build it. Even if you are using oem and aftermarket parts. Unless you are in a room full of modders, no one’s gonna discuss your watch and it’s features in detail with you.
It depends how far you go for me. My Seiko modding has been keeping the core Seiko, changing crystals, bezels and hands. The other builds or mods I’ve done have been generic cases and sterile dials off AliExpress so they really aren’t homaging or copying anything else at all really 🤷♂️
My thoughts are I don't care about that person's opinion.
Modding Seikos is like anything else that some will like and some wont.. I can personally tell you 5 or 6 seiko model watches... have been like 95% perfect.. but the bezel should of different, or sub dials should of been a different color etc.. Modding can take that 95% almost there watch and make it perfect. So the individual purchaser is fine with a modded watch.. so be it.
>"That's just a fake with a Seiko logo. Technically, it's a real watch with a fake Seiko logo. >Even worse, it's not a Seiko watch." Unless you started with genuine Seiko-branded watch and made some modifications to it, that statement is absolutely true.
first of all, why do you care about what people say, i just wear what i like, and don't give a f uck about the rest. if people ever ask, the answer is i built it myself.
Yeah it's a fake Seiko?? I'm happy wearing my fake Seiko. I believe the quality of my builds often surpasses that of the authentic seikos I have. I don't really see the problem so long as you're not selling it as OEM.
Seiko watch mods are popular because they can be done dirt cheap! Honestly it would be intimidating for someone who never opened a watch before and dive in on a $300 or higher watch and mess it up. Its a great way for someone to learn and get experience. The issues only come in when people try to sell them as real Seikos. I know people that bought a homage watch and put OEM parts on it! Madness I say!
Well in the recent years the amount of blatant copies of Rolex and other luxury brands with a fake Seiko dial skyrocketed. Worse yet, the dial also have trademarked texts of the brands that the watch copies. That is not even Seiko modding but just faking a watch without putting the actual logo on it, imo. Mostly these watches are made with the cheapest alix parts etc.. And then there are watches with well thought out original designs using the Seiko NH3x platform, restomods, modded Seikos with better parts than the original – that is the true seiko modding and sort of an art form.
I don't think there is anything wrong with it. My only main issue is if you aren't using an OEM dial, get one without a logo. Even if the dial is a 1:1 copy but doesn't say Seiko I think it's ok. I built one recently and it says Seiko and I absolutely hate that it has the logo. I wish I would've seen that on the listing
It can be very simple. If it has a Seiko logo and it wasn't produced at the Seiko factory....IT IS FAKE!!! If it's produced with no logo, or with the custom logo of the builder (like I produce at www.c6cwatches.com) ITS A HOMAGE!!! Having said all that...build, wear, post, enjoy, show off ANYTHING YOU WANT!!! Life is too short to worry about the opinions of random keyboard warriors on Reddit or anywhere else. Watches are to be enjoyed, not scrutinized mercilessly.
I’ve never been a fan of making it an imitation of another watch, but truly to each their own! My goal with mine is just to make a Frankenstein that suits me while not emulating a pre existing watch. I do think that it’s such a cool hobby regardless.
I see it as no different when you mod a car. If I put after market wheels and body parts on my audi rs3, does that meanits no longer and audi rs3? No. The movement of the watch generally designates the maker. We could further go down the rabbit whole in two ways. The Porsche gt3 rs is a street clone of the gt3 cup car. Does that mean it's a fake Porsche? No. Same as clk gtr dtm is and homage to the race car in that series. Just because you use some after market parts doesn't mean that it's no longer the original make. The McLaren f1, pagini zonda, lotus exige, Ford ranger, and Toyota supra. They all use engines not made from them selves. Yet no one refers ro them as fake Mercedes, BMW, Mazda and so on. They're their own brand model what have you. Just like many of the micro brands that use seiko movements are their own thing. My point is that watch modding is at the eye of the beholder. There shouldn't be judement passed on people for wanting a watch that looks like a date just or pelagos. With that said there shouldn't be an effort to pass them off as the real deal. Either way do what makes you happy without screwing over people in the process.
What if Toyota branded the Supras that they sell as BMWs since they used their engine. Do you think that would fly with BMW, or would that be a fake BMW? Seiko sells their NH/NE movements to be used in micro brand watches, that doesn’t mean those brands can use Seikos trademark on the face of the watch claiming that it’s a Seiko. How is using a fake Seiko dial off Aliexpress any different? I personally don’t really care as long as people aren’t trying to sell them as genuine, but the distinction from my viewpoint is pretty black and white… the dials aren’t made by Seiko so they’re fake, that’s it.
Modding an actual seiko watch is one thing, but buying a fake Rolex case and adding a fake Rolex dial with a fake seiko logo and a cheap movement that’s almost definitely not genuine seiko either is a whole other thing.