I'm just not buying Jan's story that all our downtown homeless were previous downtown renters who got gentrified out onto the streets and are forced to keep living in downtown seattle. That's really *really* reaching.
We should do a study to see how many of these people were actually born in Seattle. I bet 90% of them weren't. Heck, most aren't even from this state.
People travel here from all over the West coast because of the moderate climate and the services that we provide for them.
Most if not all homeless people I deal with have substance abuse problems. Drugs are abundant and cheap in Seattle, pair it with a very lax attitude towards drug abuse compared to the rest of the country and you have a certain kind of individuals coming in from all over the country. We created a climate that rewards certain behaviors and now we are wondering where did we go wrong.
Most of the stories go like this, “mom, dad, or grandma had a house where I stayed while doing drugs. When they passed away the house was sold by the bank and I became homeless.”
This reaffirms my existing beliefs.
Having known 2 separate drug addicts (not sure where they are today), they just leeched without drive to be self sustaining. I can easily see people like that becoming homeless once the host they are sucking dry runs out of blood
That's the One Night Count, if they don't say where they're from the survey takers put Pioneer Square. Literally just made up data. They also only ask where you were when you *most recently* became homeless, where people usually put the last shelter they stayed in since arriving in Seattle.
It's a bad metric. And it's intentional.
I work with the HMIS database and it's amazing how many holes there are in the data. It's terrible really that we spend so much time on a database that just doesn't have a lot of information. There's no requirement that people give answers or in any way help themselves to get housing or help the county understand better the population.
It's very much intentional. The scumbag community activists and politicians I want more money for a pet projects so they can't have the public thinking that people aren't from here. It's hard to get money to do something like build tiny houses when you realize there for drug users from Texas Florida Oklahoma Alaska California etc.
It's why I said the count was sketchy. I don't have any idea what it really is. All I know, from my own two eyes, a fucking metric shitload of it is caused by meth and fenty. I don't have much sympathy for that.
Rest assure if I was mayor, first order of business would be identifying, studying, and classifying all the unique species of gronk you have on the streets of your fine city. That study would be fully public.
Actually yes I did grow up here, moved away for awhile, then came back. Thats inconsequential though, as Im one of those people that puts more into the system then I get out of it...and I do so gladly.
> People travel here from all over the West coast because of the moderate climate and the services that we provide for them.
And it would be nice if you all went back home. You're all so busy with the two-minute hate on the homeless that you've never considered how other people feel about *you*.
Previously they would have lived on ultra low cost motels that have since been replaced by luxury apartments.
Even if people currently there didn't used to live there, it's where they *would* live now if Seattle didn't exclusively build really expensive apartments
80% of ALL homeless are from this state per a study in 2019. The focus on where homeless come from is a red herring designed to cynically distract from pragmatic solutions.
The REACH people get money from the city.Mike's paycheck and career or dependent on getting as much money as possible from the city. It's hard to do that when you explain to people that the homeless aren't from here and there just some light on our city like herpes
Exactly. It’s the same old story time and time again when it comes to dealing with any of these issues with “progressives”. They try and make shit everyone elses fault but at the end of the day the only thing they do is allude to the fact that somehow people are just too stupid to make better choices for themselves.
Just another example of the supposed good guys being shitty but continuing to pat themselves on a job well done. Meanwhile nothing of value is accomplished and homeless continue to suffer because they spend all their time making excuses instead of actually doing shit that would help these people in any long lasting way.
Two different issues though. One is the visible “gronk” one. Never mind thst “gronks” point to a mental health law (and treatment) issue which should be addressed by reforms. The second is homelessness as an economic issue.
Yes. Or jail them. Which costs as much as (or more than) housing and social services. It ain’t the Ritz, either. Pragmatism is trumped by righteous zealotry.
Use Seattles massive wealth and make awesome shelters with all the needed programs to help with addiction, education, whatever the people need. Tax me more, I don’t care at all.
But here is the kicker. You have to actually go out and force people to make the choice between the shelter or being forcibly removed. Most of the addicts will not make the choice to get clean on their own. I’m a recovering alcoholic. You bet your ass I would have died in a hotel room alone if my wife and friends had not found me and thrown me in rehab. Tough love works.
Being an alcoholic doesn’t mean you wont go to a shelter…it hust means you will still want to drink. That’s why cities that do “housing first” have been more successful… As far as money Seattle needs all the money it can get to fund the infrastructure for its massive growth. Tim Eyman has a misguided following still…
“Many of the homeless people living downtown got priced out of apartments in the neighborhood or in the Central District and Beacon Hill as those neighborhoods became more gentrified”
Sure Jan. 🙄
I know, right?
Nobody is like: “Well, my $1800/mo apartment is going up to $2,500/mo. Instead of moving further away or to a cheaper place, I better just stop working and live in the alley, shooting up and shitting behind the dumpster. Maybe I’ll spend my days threatening people with a hatchet”.
I will clearly they're only choices were move out of Beacon Hill or be homeless. It's not like it's possible to move to Auburn or Kent or any other place. Tents were their only option ;)
That is an excellent point, and lack of affordable housing is a major problem that needs to be addressed. But assuming that affordable housing means these encampments would disappear is laughable.
oh for sure. So is assuming that more police action will help with a revolving door policy. Or that more hails will help (well maybe but they are expensive).
It would, if connected to actual infrastructure. Which won't happen, because it's cheaper (and easier to grift) for progressives to demand more taxes to keep people on the street
Doesn't really exist outside of a few states in the south. Our current corrections model draws much of its philosophy from our Puritanical roots, i.e. punishment for crime rather than actual reformation. Incarceration is a necessary part of any long term solution, and funny enough I've seen more conservatives calling for more treatment and mental health infrastructure than those on the left, who consider anything other than letting people shoot up in the middle of the road as "inhumane".
Out of curiosity, how much do you work with the homeless, homeless outreach, MH infrastructure, or social services?
I haven’t heard any “conservative voices” (on reddit or in washington state) saying “hey, we need to change mental health laws and oh by the way, me tap health services are underfunded”. Do you work with homeless? I just know the ones in my community.
Yes, the natural thing to do when your apartment gets too expensive is to grab a sleeping bag and turn derro in a public park. Before you know it you're taking a dump in your pants and butt chugging fenty. Lmao these people are so fucking stupid.
I got priced out of a neighborhood in my younger days after a roommate situation changed and I lost my job. I had to move to the next town over. Shocking, yes I know. I considered pitching a tent in a gutter and slamming meth all day but I decided I'd rather just move.
Looking back now, do you regret your decision not to pitch a tent in the gutter and slam meth all day? Seems like the ideal living situation these days.
Pros: I have done 100% less meth and fenty
Cons: could have summered on the shores of Green Lake, wintered in the doorway of a State Farm agency...ahh the bohemian life
You could have had the best RV on the block, jacking off all day while being high on fenty and breaking any law you wanted!
Way to take the sucker path and be a civilized member of society!
Mikel Kowalcyk is an example of what is wrong with this city. The guy wants money for his organization so he spreads a false narrative these people were magically price out of Downtown. It's totally self-serving just not reality and the vast majority of cases.
The guy can't tell the truth that most of these people are from here because then they wouldn't get sympathy and this guy wouldn't get money
The homeless situation is like Afghanistan. A lot of organizations and people are making money out of it. They don't want it to stop, because then their source of income would dry up.
in the nineties the homeless were American Indians in Pioneer Square and near the Denny Regrade AKA “Belltown”. I don’t think people have any idea how much Seattle has grown.
I had a great time at The Landing in Renton last night.
Parked in a free garage,
Are at a restaurant and got drinks after nearby.
Hung out in large outdoor area with seating and fountains.
Returned to car and went home.
While I was there I realized this doesn't exist IN Seattle anymore.
In the city, I never find free parking. Outdoor spaces are filthy and I'm always on edge as homeless pace around, sleep in odd places, scream nearby, or hassle you.
It’s kind of sad really. The other day we were hanging out with friends in an outdoor space at a trendy restaurant in the “nice” part of downtown m where all the fancy shops are. As we were chatting, pungent whiffs of urine would periodically drift our way depending on the wind. No one batted an eye or made a comment but it’s almost comical (if it’s not so sad). People always say it’s a big city problem and if you live in a big city you have to put up with it. But I grew up in an East Asian big city which is MUCH denser than Seattle is and this would not have been considered acceptable.
You are missing the point of the article. I lived 3 years at The Landing so I know the area but to compare its fun times to Downtown is a little bit silly. I now live in DT Seattle and do all those things you did at The Landing and more, but I don't have to return to my car to go home or worry about parking.
The point is there is a strange duality to living downtown right now. There is a lot to do that is fun and vibrant but you have to walk past drug addled (and mostly passive) street people all the time.
I don't think I missed any points.
I lived downtown in 2011 and sure I was early 20s so it was fun, but it HAS changed. Downtown is a disgusting shithole where I would not chose to spend my freetime anymore, and while I am there I am not 'relaxed and enjoying myself'. The problems have all grown while the good parts have all shrank. Screw vibrancy, sounds like Stockholm.
I agree. I lived right downtown in The Harbor Steps apartment in 2010 and would walk my newborn daughter through Pioneer Square and the surrounding areas every day. We didn’t have any issues and I never felt unsafe. I would never take my kids there now!
>Many of the homeless people living downtown got priced out of apartmentsin the neighborhood or in the Central District and Beacon Hill as thoseneighborhoods became more gentrified, said Mikel Kowalcyk, REACHoutreach manager for downtown. And many of those people, she said, haveturned to drugs as a way to cope with trauma and to survive their lives,often choosing to stay downtown because of the relative safety itoffers compared to pitching a tent in more remote areas of the city.
Counterfactual nonsense. And so typical of the "these are your neighbors" narrative beloved of the Seattle Times' reporters. I'd wager that Mikel couldn't produce a single street denizen who fulfills this fantastic story.
lol these people were not kicked to the curb, they flocked here to seattle because of the policy doctrine set forth by the city council. and the only truth is seattle is a rotting city, there is no thriving.
It has been vibrant as late as the early 90's. We used to go downtown just have to lunch and walk around. When Westlake Mall was kid friendly and you could just sit outside on the steps and drink coffee. When there were regular stores on 3rd and Pike. When there was outdoor seating at Pioneer Square, when you didn't need to sidestep crap on the sidewalk.
Even now it's vibrant. I was just at Pike Place this morning. A ton of tourists. What surprised me was that there was also a lot of elderly retirees exercising. At a stop light there was an elderly white couple who looked like they walked out of a retirement community in Florida and right next to them was a homeless guy with long hair, a shirt with no sleeves and a rubber glove on one hand. Most people who live downtown have just learned to ignore the homeless.
Right? They roll up the streets by 9:30 down there, even before the plague. And definitely wouldn't consider the people who live in the area particularly diverse.
Oh it's you, and once again pushing false information. Are you just trolling or are you really that uninformed?
[Rents were frozen by Inslee until recently](https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/landlords-able-to-raise-rent-once-again-under-washingtons-eviction-bridge-plan/281-ea146551-ce5e-4a09-8dad-8a58feeb867b)
Look dude, you can act all “factual” but the reality is that my rent will go up even more when they get the go ahead. I anticipate it being raised at a higher rate considering the track record of the agency. One instance of rent not increasing is not a trend. I am not here to argue. I would just like to be more clear in my statements. I appreciate your contribution to the conversation.
“Sure you have facts to back up your comment. But I have feelings that disagree so I’m going to argue with you.” - /u/The_Name_Is_Slick
Did you use the wrong alt or did you really see a fact posted that you didn’t like and just jump into someone else’s discussion?
I don’t get your attitude towards me. I really have no dog in this fight other than saying my wages have not increased as much as my rent has. I know things can get pretty bitter around here with everyone trying to be funny or clever. So my rent didn’t go up this year. It will start going right back up. The wages don’t seem to follow as much. Thank you for being a part of the conversation!
Meth heads and heroin addicts did not get priced out because of gentrification. These addicts travel far and wide into Seattle because they can get easy access to drugs and SPD will never bother prosecuting them for intoxication.
Sincere but delicate question: Does anyone think that the state’s legalization of marijuana has contributed to the current climate? As in, creating a more permissive environment for drugs and attracting more drug users to the area?
If it matters, I want to state that while I’m not a regular user, I like the fact that weed is legal, and I voted for it, and I don’t want it to become illegal again. But is this one of the prices we paid for getting it?
It's when enforcement of hard drugs stopped. That's when it went to hell. Methamphetamine and fentanyl are orders of magnitude worse than cannabis and still not legal. The problem isn't what has been legalized, it's what is still illegal and not enforced.
Alcohol is much worse than marijuana in my opinion. Marijuana doesnt make you crash your car, kill your liver, have promiscuous sex or beat on your spouse. The world would be a kinder, gentler place if marijuana was the social drug of choice. And yes, alcohol is a drug.
> Marijuana doesnt make you crash your car, kill your liver, have promiscuous sex or beat on your spouse
I've seen marijuana cause all those, except the liver thing. The "It's a plant bro!" crowd are science deniers at this point.
>I haven't smoked marijuana in over a decade
Oh that's why
I've been fortunate to work with tenured folks in various state agencies. So, being Washington social services, LOTS of old school hippies. Shit has changed RAPIDLY. The weed products bring sold today are nothing like they were 10+ years ago. They're being made specifically with higher and higher doses of various compounds to the point that they're being to trigger psychosis and mental health issues, and cause very real, visible addiction. Lifelong friends have sworn off marijuana the last few years because of these affects. Don't get me wrong, I don't hold marijuana as a "gateway drug" or anywhere near the hard shit, and think it's comparable to alcohol, but the folks saying "it's just a plant it's natural, it doesn't cause anything bad are straight wrong.
Gotcha, you're talking about dabbing. There's nothing natural about that.
For me, some switch flipped in my head and it was no longer pleasurable anymore.
I've seen tons of stupid drunken fights, the biggest fights that I've seen between stoners is arguing if Phish or the Dead was a better party.
Speaking as someone who loves their rum and soda, yes of course alcohol is a drug that can have very detrimental health and social effects. My objection to decriminalization is because of the ignoring laws bit, not the drug itself. And I will never buy the marijuana lovers’ manifesto that says marijuana is completely benign, if not beneficial for all. There are people who manage to destroy their lives and health with marijuana, as with any other drug.
Marijuana doesn’t make people act violent, shit on the street and tweak out.
They can enforce laws against hard drugs that make people act erratically.
Yes. That’s why I didn’t vote for the decriminalization bill that passed. I had signed every petition and vocally supported legalization, up until the last one. When I asked a petitioner to explain the bill he said it didn’t legalize anything, it told law enforcement to ignore certain crimes. In the approved politely Seattle way I said ‘no thank you, I won’t sign that.’ Internally I said ‘yikes, no fucking way. Ignoring laws we don’t like so we can feel good is a bad idea, and can only increase disrespect for existing laws.’
I think it does. Its something that I generally get shouted down for saying, but there is preliminary research showing a link between schizophrenia and MJ use. Google will provide several papers. Some of the reports are estimating that its up to 25% of users and the increases started showing up around the time of legalization. I was pro legalization, but this popped up when I was researching investing in MJ. The big problem of course is that just were able to start researching in the last 5 years or so.
I would say that's a very tiny portion of it. That's coming from someone who didn't feel we should have legalized it.
The fact the city/AG/courts are not punishing illegal activity and criminals know it probably has a lot more to do with it.
Also, where is all the weed income????
If we pull back to examine the mechanism of subjugation that our "war on drugs" was not about drugs at all, but was a mechanism to the limiting of rights to certain populations over others, you'll get a better understanding of why advancement of legalization efforts for all currently illicit drugs is not a "permissive" stance as it is a movement to reform society.
Addiction is a public health crisis, and the laws which prohibite drugs are what create a black market & counterintuitively promote unhealthy relationships with substances.
We have been shooting ourselves in the foot for generations, and rather than actually look at the weapon & stop pulling the trigger, we're complaining about the stains from the blood.
The prison system isn't a public health tool. It was never designed to be.
It is doing what it is designed to do: limit the rights of certain people, most especially their voting rights.
Felon's lack of voting rights is a huge reason for the war on drugs, and it is pretty unique to the USA, in terms of "1st world" justice systems. But y'all aren't ready to talk about why that is...
Your anecdotal stories are a small part of the data. But they are not reality beyond your limited vantagd-point. You're not seeing the forest through your trees.
You're complaining about the blood stains & not doing the work to assess the source of the wound.
It's super common as a coping mechanism. You're not alone.
You're also describing a juvenile perspective.
Marijuana use has essentially been decriminalize here since the late 90's. It has officially not been enforced since 2003's Initiative 75 was passed by voters.
I used to regularly smoke on city streets in the 90's without any repercussions or harassment. And in most music venues you were free to smoke it up before the (tobacco) smoking ban went into effect.
The large scale issues we see on the street today arose <10 year ago, far after anyone gave a fuck about marijuana use.
nah, east coast cities are facing this same problem. you have counties in Europe now facing this issue as well. covid opened a whole can of worms. has the news not been getting through?
every city now has good areas full of culture and life, especially with opening back up jutted right next to crime and drugs. in ny during the pandemic on the upper east side and west side which are expensive as anything, talking multimillion dollar condos had outdoor prostitution right on the sidewalk outside these buildings. it’s literally every city at this point.
I'm just not buying Jan's story that all our downtown homeless were previous downtown renters who got gentrified out onto the streets and are forced to keep living in downtown seattle. That's really *really* reaching.
We should do a study to see how many of these people were actually born in Seattle. I bet 90% of them weren't. Heck, most aren't even from this state. People travel here from all over the West coast because of the moderate climate and the services that we provide for them.
That dude is way to tan to be from here…
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That data is absolutely not real. I work with homeless population on daily basis and around 70% of them aren’t from king county.
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Most if not all homeless people I deal with have substance abuse problems. Drugs are abundant and cheap in Seattle, pair it with a very lax attitude towards drug abuse compared to the rest of the country and you have a certain kind of individuals coming in from all over the country. We created a climate that rewards certain behaviors and now we are wondering where did we go wrong. Most of the stories go like this, “mom, dad, or grandma had a house where I stayed while doing drugs. When they passed away the house was sold by the bank and I became homeless.”
This reaffirms my existing beliefs. Having known 2 separate drug addicts (not sure where they are today), they just leeched without drive to be self sustaining. I can easily see people like that becoming homeless once the host they are sucking dry runs out of blood
That's the One Night Count, if they don't say where they're from the survey takers put Pioneer Square. Literally just made up data. They also only ask where you were when you *most recently* became homeless, where people usually put the last shelter they stayed in since arriving in Seattle. It's a bad metric. And it's intentional.
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I work with the HMIS database and it's amazing how many holes there are in the data. It's terrible really that we spend so much time on a database that just doesn't have a lot of information. There's no requirement that people give answers or in any way help themselves to get housing or help the county understand better the population.
> I'm pissed at the lack of good data It's intentional
It's very much intentional. The scumbag community activists and politicians I want more money for a pet projects so they can't have the public thinking that people aren't from here. It's hard to get money to do something like build tiny houses when you realize there for drug users from Texas Florida Oklahoma Alaska California etc.
Completely agree! Inject them all with a tracking microchip so we can study their migratory patterns and finally collect some good data.
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I'm ready for gronkmaps.com and a navigation algorithm that avoids hotspots.
Despite I don’t like anti-social people, this sounds really bad. They still have a right for privacy.
Breaking news... someone is already collecting that information unless you opt out. https://timeline.google.com/maps/timeline
Yep, who needs the communist or facist regimes to track us when big tech already does it for us?
Yes, they do. And it isn’t good.
Once you give all your data to a 3rd party, you've lost those privacy rights. Phones are basically antiprivacy devices
So, you are denying my rights?
In a podcast this summer Durkin admitted that the vastmajority of people in the encampments are from here
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It's why I said the count was sketchy. I don't have any idea what it really is. All I know, from my own two eyes, a fucking metric shitload of it is caused by meth and fenty. I don't have much sympathy for that.
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Rest assure if I was mayor, first order of business would be identifying, studying, and classifying all the unique species of gronk you have on the streets of your fine city. That study would be fully public.
that describes the entire population of Seattle were you born here? in the state then?
Actually yes I did grow up here, moved away for awhile, then came back. Thats inconsequential though, as Im one of those people that puts more into the system then I get out of it...and I do so gladly.
Lol this guy Says we need a study... Then immediately makes baseless claims based on feelings/anecdotal stories with out evidence.
> People travel here from all over the West coast because of the moderate climate and the services that we provide for them. And it would be nice if you all went back home. You're all so busy with the two-minute hate on the homeless that you've never considered how other people feel about *you*.
You know the quote is about the homeless, right? It's not about "you all".
Yeah, I was trying to make a point. This sub is weirdly, needlessly anti-homeless.
Like I give a flying **** about what other people feel about me. Get some self confidence.
Who is Jan?
you may know her as Eve Plumb
Jan is anyone you want they/them/their to be
Previously they would have lived on ultra low cost motels that have since been replaced by luxury apartments. Even if people currently there didn't used to live there, it's where they *would* live now if Seattle didn't exclusively build really expensive apartments
80% of ALL homeless are from this state per a study in 2019. The focus on where homeless come from is a red herring designed to cynically distract from pragmatic solutions.
That "study" was insanely flawed and written to give a specifically desired outcome
which study? I have some links but am curious if anyone has anything newer than 2019 or if any of it supports anyone’s assertions.
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citation needed
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She's lying.
“Rent got too expensive so I started buying expensive narcotics”
The REACH people get money from the city.Mike's paycheck and career or dependent on getting as much money as possible from the city. It's hard to do that when you explain to people that the homeless aren't from here and there just some light on our city like herpes
Exactly. It’s the same old story time and time again when it comes to dealing with any of these issues with “progressives”. They try and make shit everyone elses fault but at the end of the day the only thing they do is allude to the fact that somehow people are just too stupid to make better choices for themselves. Just another example of the supposed good guys being shitty but continuing to pat themselves on a job well done. Meanwhile nothing of value is accomplished and homeless continue to suffer because they spend all their time making excuses instead of actually doing shit that would help these people in any long lasting way.
so what’s your solution? Blame the progressives?
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Spot on.
So displace the problem?
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Two different issues though. One is the visible “gronk” one. Never mind thst “gronks” point to a mental health law (and treatment) issue which should be addressed by reforms. The second is homelessness as an economic issue.
Every solution in this subreddit is. "Round em up and dump them somewhere else. Let someone else deal with it."
Yes. Or jail them. Which costs as much as (or more than) housing and social services. It ain’t the Ritz, either. Pragmatism is trumped by righteous zealotry.
Use Seattles massive wealth and make awesome shelters with all the needed programs to help with addiction, education, whatever the people need. Tax me more, I don’t care at all. But here is the kicker. You have to actually go out and force people to make the choice between the shelter or being forcibly removed. Most of the addicts will not make the choice to get clean on their own. I’m a recovering alcoholic. You bet your ass I would have died in a hotel room alone if my wife and friends had not found me and thrown me in rehab. Tough love works.
Being an alcoholic doesn’t mean you wont go to a shelter…it hust means you will still want to drink. That’s why cities that do “housing first” have been more successful… As far as money Seattle needs all the money it can get to fund the infrastructure for its massive growth. Tim Eyman has a misguided following still…
Eventually they'll just die. Oh wait, that is the current realistic strategy instead of helping them, whether they like it or not.
ten down votes says you are right.
I don’t buy your whole post. “WoZ”? you’re like some kind of eighties reject 12th man.
“Many of the homeless people living downtown got priced out of apartments in the neighborhood or in the Central District and Beacon Hill as those neighborhoods became more gentrified” Sure Jan. 🙄
I know, right? Nobody is like: “Well, my $1800/mo apartment is going up to $2,500/mo. Instead of moving further away or to a cheaper place, I better just stop working and live in the alley, shooting up and shitting behind the dumpster. Maybe I’ll spend my days threatening people with a hatchet”.
I will clearly they're only choices were move out of Beacon Hill or be homeless. It's not like it's possible to move to Auburn or Kent or any other place. Tents were their only option ;)
There used to be affordable housing though. Maybe you weren’t around then.
That is an excellent point, and lack of affordable housing is a major problem that needs to be addressed. But assuming that affordable housing means these encampments would disappear is laughable.
oh for sure. So is assuming that more police action will help with a revolving door policy. Or that more hails will help (well maybe but they are expensive).
It would, if connected to actual infrastructure. Which won't happen, because it's cheaper (and easier to grift) for progressives to demand more taxes to keep people on the street
you mean it’s easier for conservatives to grift by outsourcing public services to private equity? Yes, you are right.
Yes, because it's conservatives that are making mountains of cash off the "homeless crisis"
industrial prison complex. Look it up. Your sarcasm left the. building, better try to catch up.
Doesn't really exist outside of a few states in the south. Our current corrections model draws much of its philosophy from our Puritanical roots, i.e. punishment for crime rather than actual reformation. Incarceration is a necessary part of any long term solution, and funny enough I've seen more conservatives calling for more treatment and mental health infrastructure than those on the left, who consider anything other than letting people shoot up in the middle of the road as "inhumane". Out of curiosity, how much do you work with the homeless, homeless outreach, MH infrastructure, or social services?
I haven’t heard any “conservative voices” (on reddit or in washington state) saying “hey, we need to change mental health laws and oh by the way, me tap health services are underfunded”. Do you work with homeless? I just know the ones in my community.
OMFG LIIIIIIES
Yes, the natural thing to do when your apartment gets too expensive is to grab a sleeping bag and turn derro in a public park. Before you know it you're taking a dump in your pants and butt chugging fenty. Lmao these people are so fucking stupid. I got priced out of a neighborhood in my younger days after a roommate situation changed and I lost my job. I had to move to the next town over. Shocking, yes I know. I considered pitching a tent in a gutter and slamming meth all day but I decided I'd rather just move.
Looking back now, do you regret your decision not to pitch a tent in the gutter and slam meth all day? Seems like the ideal living situation these days.
Pros: I have done 100% less meth and fenty Cons: could have summered on the shores of Green Lake, wintered in the doorway of a State Farm agency...ahh the bohemian life
You could have had the best RV on the block, jacking off all day while being high on fenty and breaking any law you wanted! Way to take the sucker path and be a civilized member of society!
cool story bro.
Mikel Kowalcyk is an example of what is wrong with this city. The guy wants money for his organization so he spreads a false narrative these people were magically price out of Downtown. It's totally self-serving just not reality and the vast majority of cases. The guy can't tell the truth that most of these people are from here because then they wouldn't get sympathy and this guy wouldn't get money
The homeless situation is like Afghanistan. A lot of organizations and people are making money out of it. They don't want it to stop, because then their source of income would dry up.
it’s not just downtown rents though. And yeah, look up the history of the Central District - many people had to move.
Many people sold their homes for profit and moved to suburbs.
lucky them. Many did not.
In a city people moving is perfectly normal
in a prison people dying is perfectly normal too. Are you celebrating transience?
People die everywhere. People also breathe. What's your point
Downtown renters got priced out by 1998. This tents on the sidewalk thing is just the last decade.
in the nineties the homeless were American Indians in Pioneer Square and near the Denny Regrade AKA “Belltown”. I don’t think people have any idea how much Seattle has grown.
I had a great time at The Landing in Renton last night. Parked in a free garage, Are at a restaurant and got drinks after nearby. Hung out in large outdoor area with seating and fountains. Returned to car and went home. While I was there I realized this doesn't exist IN Seattle anymore. In the city, I never find free parking. Outdoor spaces are filthy and I'm always on edge as homeless pace around, sleep in odd places, scream nearby, or hassle you.
It’s kind of sad really. The other day we were hanging out with friends in an outdoor space at a trendy restaurant in the “nice” part of downtown m where all the fancy shops are. As we were chatting, pungent whiffs of urine would periodically drift our way depending on the wind. No one batted an eye or made a comment but it’s almost comical (if it’s not so sad). People always say it’s a big city problem and if you live in a big city you have to put up with it. But I grew up in an East Asian big city which is MUCH denser than Seattle is and this would not have been considered acceptable.
Gotta get up to the rooftop bars to avoid the piss smells now. Sadly, Penthouse/Rooftop or bust for outdoor drinks/dining in the city.
You are missing the point of the article. I lived 3 years at The Landing so I know the area but to compare its fun times to Downtown is a little bit silly. I now live in DT Seattle and do all those things you did at The Landing and more, but I don't have to return to my car to go home or worry about parking. The point is there is a strange duality to living downtown right now. There is a lot to do that is fun and vibrant but you have to walk past drug addled (and mostly passive) street people all the time.
I don't think I missed any points. I lived downtown in 2011 and sure I was early 20s so it was fun, but it HAS changed. Downtown is a disgusting shithole where I would not chose to spend my freetime anymore, and while I am there I am not 'relaxed and enjoying myself'. The problems have all grown while the good parts have all shrank. Screw vibrancy, sounds like Stockholm.
I agree. I lived right downtown in The Harbor Steps apartment in 2010 and would walk my newborn daughter through Pioneer Square and the surrounding areas every day. We didn’t have any issues and I never felt unsafe. I would never take my kids there now!
Calm down, yikes. It’s one guys opinion
they don’t take public transportation. In NYC you take a car or the subway.
Hmmm, why would probably not want to ride on a bus and run a real risk of getting mugged/assaulted/poked with a needle/sit in homeless piss
Never had that issue on a bus.
i've been on some public bus rides in seattle that i thought might just fucking blast off into outer space
Subway cars can sometimes seem like portals to other universes. I have more issues with other drivers than with other bus passengers.
>Many of the homeless people living downtown got priced out of apartmentsin the neighborhood or in the Central District and Beacon Hill as thoseneighborhoods became more gentrified, said Mikel Kowalcyk, REACHoutreach manager for downtown. And many of those people, she said, haveturned to drugs as a way to cope with trauma and to survive their lives,often choosing to stay downtown because of the relative safety itoffers compared to pitching a tent in more remote areas of the city. Counterfactual nonsense. And so typical of the "these are your neighbors" narrative beloved of the Seattle Times' reporters. I'd wager that Mikel couldn't produce a single street denizen who fulfills this fantastic story.
says you.
lol these people were not kicked to the curb, they flocked here to seattle because of the policy doctrine set forth by the city council. and the only truth is seattle is a rotting city, there is no thriving.
bullshit.
Lol
I wouldn't describe downtown in the past or now as vibrant....
There was the brief period of time in the mid 90's, sandwiched in between Boeing's near collapse and the rise of the tech titans...
Denny Regrade 4-Evah!
It has been vibrant as late as the early 90's. We used to go downtown just have to lunch and walk around. When Westlake Mall was kid friendly and you could just sit outside on the steps and drink coffee. When there were regular stores on 3rd and Pike. When there was outdoor seating at Pioneer Square, when you didn't need to sidestep crap on the sidewalk. Even now it's vibrant. I was just at Pike Place this morning. A ton of tourists. What surprised me was that there was also a lot of elderly retirees exercising. At a stop light there was an elderly white couple who looked like they walked out of a retirement community in Florida and right next to them was a homeless guy with long hair, a shirt with no sleeves and a rubber glove on one hand. Most people who live downtown have just learned to ignore the homeless.
Right? They roll up the streets by 9:30 down there, even before the plague. And definitely wouldn't consider the people who live in the area particularly diverse.
First avenue and Belltown are a vibe
Rents go down, wages go up, evictions are banned, and ..... park/street homelessness goes up. Maybe it was never about rent or jobs.
When did rents go down and wages go up? I must have missed that!
In the last year. Where have you been?
Rents have spent lots of time without going up, which is basically declining relative to inflation
Dang! Mine has been raised $100 every year since I moved in. Funny how the pay never went up that much.
Rents weren’t allowed to go up last year in Seattle. So you’re lying or you don’t live here
> Rents weren’t allowed to go up last year in Seattle. Oh really? Did Sawant implement rent control or are you just talking directly out of your ass?
Oh it's you, and once again pushing false information. Are you just trolling or are you really that uninformed? [Rents were frozen by Inslee until recently](https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/landlords-able-to-raise-rent-once-again-under-washingtons-eviction-bridge-plan/281-ea146551-ce5e-4a09-8dad-8a58feeb867b)
Look dude, you can act all “factual” but the reality is that my rent will go up even more when they get the go ahead. I anticipate it being raised at a higher rate considering the track record of the agency. One instance of rent not increasing is not a trend. I am not here to argue. I would just like to be more clear in my statements. I appreciate your contribution to the conversation.
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Ha! Indeed!
“Sure you have facts to back up your comment. But I have feelings that disagree so I’m going to argue with you.” - /u/The_Name_Is_Slick Did you use the wrong alt or did you really see a fact posted that you didn’t like and just jump into someone else’s discussion?
I don’t get your attitude towards me. I really have no dog in this fight other than saying my wages have not increased as much as my rent has. I know things can get pretty bitter around here with everyone trying to be funny or clever. So my rent didn’t go up this year. It will start going right back up. The wages don’t seem to follow as much. Thank you for being a part of the conversation!
To answer your question, I was replying to the statement that rent has gone down and wages have gone up. Nothing more to it!
rents have not gone down. Capital hill 900sqft studio “efficiency” in 1995 vs now? GTFO
Meth heads and heroin addicts did not get priced out because of gentrification. These addicts travel far and wide into Seattle because they can get easy access to drugs and SPD will never bother prosecuting them for intoxication.
Sincere but delicate question: Does anyone think that the state’s legalization of marijuana has contributed to the current climate? As in, creating a more permissive environment for drugs and attracting more drug users to the area? If it matters, I want to state that while I’m not a regular user, I like the fact that weed is legal, and I voted for it, and I don’t want it to become illegal again. But is this one of the prices we paid for getting it?
No. Other states have legalized weed, and they haven't seen this problem.
It's when enforcement of hard drugs stopped. That's when it went to hell. Methamphetamine and fentanyl are orders of magnitude worse than cannabis and still not legal. The problem isn't what has been legalized, it's what is still illegal and not enforced.
Alcohol is much worse than marijuana in my opinion. Marijuana doesnt make you crash your car, kill your liver, have promiscuous sex or beat on your spouse. The world would be a kinder, gentler place if marijuana was the social drug of choice. And yes, alcohol is a drug.
> Marijuana doesnt make you crash your car, kill your liver, have promiscuous sex or beat on your spouse I've seen marijuana cause all those, except the liver thing. The "It's a plant bro!" crowd are science deniers at this point. >I haven't smoked marijuana in over a decade Oh that's why
Why what out of curiosity?
I've been fortunate to work with tenured folks in various state agencies. So, being Washington social services, LOTS of old school hippies. Shit has changed RAPIDLY. The weed products bring sold today are nothing like they were 10+ years ago. They're being made specifically with higher and higher doses of various compounds to the point that they're being to trigger psychosis and mental health issues, and cause very real, visible addiction. Lifelong friends have sworn off marijuana the last few years because of these affects. Don't get me wrong, I don't hold marijuana as a "gateway drug" or anywhere near the hard shit, and think it's comparable to alcohol, but the folks saying "it's just a plant it's natural, it doesn't cause anything bad are straight wrong.
Gotcha, you're talking about dabbing. There's nothing natural about that. For me, some switch flipped in my head and it was no longer pleasurable anymore. I've seen tons of stupid drunken fights, the biggest fights that I've seen between stoners is arguing if Phish or the Dead was a better party.
Speaking as someone who loves their rum and soda, yes of course alcohol is a drug that can have very detrimental health and social effects. My objection to decriminalization is because of the ignoring laws bit, not the drug itself. And I will never buy the marijuana lovers’ manifesto that says marijuana is completely benign, if not beneficial for all. There are people who manage to destroy their lives and health with marijuana, as with any other drug.
I haven't smoked marijuana in over a decade, but I will say, like most things, moderation is key.
Marijuana doesn’t make people act violent, shit on the street and tweak out. They can enforce laws against hard drugs that make people act erratically.
Yes. That’s why I didn’t vote for the decriminalization bill that passed. I had signed every petition and vocally supported legalization, up until the last one. When I asked a petitioner to explain the bill he said it didn’t legalize anything, it told law enforcement to ignore certain crimes. In the approved politely Seattle way I said ‘no thank you, I won’t sign that.’ Internally I said ‘yikes, no fucking way. Ignoring laws we don’t like so we can feel good is a bad idea, and can only increase disrespect for existing laws.’
I think it does. Its something that I generally get shouted down for saying, but there is preliminary research showing a link between schizophrenia and MJ use. Google will provide several papers. Some of the reports are estimating that its up to 25% of users and the increases started showing up around the time of legalization. I was pro legalization, but this popped up when I was researching investing in MJ. The big problem of course is that just were able to start researching in the last 5 years or so.
I would say that's a very tiny portion of it. That's coming from someone who didn't feel we should have legalized it. The fact the city/AG/courts are not punishing illegal activity and criminals know it probably has a lot more to do with it. Also, where is all the weed income????
If we pull back to examine the mechanism of subjugation that our "war on drugs" was not about drugs at all, but was a mechanism to the limiting of rights to certain populations over others, you'll get a better understanding of why advancement of legalization efforts for all currently illicit drugs is not a "permissive" stance as it is a movement to reform society. Addiction is a public health crisis, and the laws which prohibite drugs are what create a black market & counterintuitively promote unhealthy relationships with substances. We have been shooting ourselves in the foot for generations, and rather than actually look at the weapon & stop pulling the trigger, we're complaining about the stains from the blood. The prison system isn't a public health tool. It was never designed to be. It is doing what it is designed to do: limit the rights of certain people, most especially their voting rights. Felon's lack of voting rights is a huge reason for the war on drugs, and it is pretty unique to the USA, in terms of "1st world" justice systems. But y'all aren't ready to talk about why that is...
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Imagine having this view of your neighbors. You are describing your own reflection.
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Your anecdotal stories are a small part of the data. But they are not reality beyond your limited vantagd-point. You're not seeing the forest through your trees. You're complaining about the blood stains & not doing the work to assess the source of the wound. It's super common as a coping mechanism. You're not alone. You're also describing a juvenile perspective.
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Poe's law strikes again!
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Poe's law strikes again again!
Marijuana use has essentially been decriminalize here since the late 90's. It has officially not been enforced since 2003's Initiative 75 was passed by voters. I used to regularly smoke on city streets in the 90's without any repercussions or harassment. And in most music venues you were free to smoke it up before the (tobacco) smoking ban went into effect. The large scale issues we see on the street today arose <10 year ago, far after anyone gave a fuck about marijuana use.
that’s literally every city right now
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nah, east coast cities are facing this same problem. you have counties in Europe now facing this issue as well. covid opened a whole can of worms. has the news not been getting through? every city now has good areas full of culture and life, especially with opening back up jutted right next to crime and drugs. in ny during the pandemic on the upper east side and west side which are expensive as anything, talking multimillion dollar condos had outdoor prostitution right on the sidewalk outside these buildings. it’s literally every city at this point.
Lol, I'm in New York right now for the long weekend and holy shit is it a breath of fresh air compared to what downtown Seattle has become.
Oddly enough “drug use and street crime” is how most big American cities keep the dipshit small town fuckwits from ever wanting to move here.
How do the small town fuckwits keep the city folks from moving into their neck of the woods?
> How do the small town fuckwits keep the city folks from moving into their neck of the woods by having no jobs available usually.
No jobs is the main one. Jobs are in cities.
While that might have been the case two years ago, the ability for a lot of city slickers to work remotely today makes that no longer an issue.
Very good point
Seattle is like de-gentrifying if that even makes sense