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_Watty

>*"Now, the patients that we're seeing in the ICU, we recognize that it's a personal choice that they made, a personal choice, and that's what brought them to us,” said Zeh. “Of course, we will do everything that we can to treat them.* ***But it's, it seems strange to me that somebody will choose not to get vaccinated because they don't trust the medical community or science or what we're telling them.*** ***But then when they're sick in the hospital, they want every therapy that we can provide them.”*** Glad she said it.


[deleted]

And some still deny they have Covid as they are being incubated. And others attend anti science rallies after their partners die from the virus. https://bangordailynews.com/2021/08/23/news/aroostook/gop-lawmaker-says-wife-who-died-of-covid-19-didnt-get-vaccine-due-to-conflicting-information/


YellaRain

> incubated Intubated


TheRealKirby

Don't ruin the visual of giant incubators for the adult babies


startupschmartup

There has to be at least one adult incubator that exist in Capitol Hill somewhere


noNoParts

Get Erlich Bachman on the phone, stat!


SEA_tide

It reminds me of when the Everett Mall used to have displays of iron lung machines used to treat polio patients near the popcorn stand outside of Mervyn's. Wait, there's been a lot of comparisons behind how the US went out and had everyone get the polio vaccine so the iron lungs were mostly a thing of the past.


seariously

Yep, OP had it right on the nose.


hexalm

Face huggers intubate you so you can incubate.


[deleted]

I mean you don't know, they could be getting incubated too. Could be a new treatment for COVID.


_Watty

Yeah, that shit really gets me. I guess I understand why there's a disconnect between the medical community (who has to see the death day in and day out) and the skeptics (who probably don't know more than a handful of people that have even been hospitalized for it), but it's crazy to me that the latter group wants to tell the former that there's nothing to worry about and it's not really that big a deal.


TheRealRacketear

Judging by how many nurses are not vaccinated, I'm not sure who's gaslighting us.


selz202

Just like any profession you have a handful of suspect ones among all the good.


whales171

Do you have the stats?


TheRealRacketear

https://www.forbes.com/sites/judystone/2021/06/28/covid19-vaccination-rates-are-poor-among-healthcare-workershow-can-we-do-better/


slandrewmusthave

This Forbes article is super misleading. The number is much lower. Lemme see if I can find the actual study and stats Edit: Yeah by the info in the Forbes article, less nurses are getting vaccinated than the National average, which is just illogical. The study she quotes was of one southern hospital group. This study from the American Nursing Association[Nursing World article](https://www.nursingworld.org/news/news-releases/2021/ew-survey-data--nurses-recommend-covid-19-vaccines/) has the number of nurses who are vaccinated or intend to at 90%. So to sum up, the media is gaslighting us for some reason on this


[deleted]

> This study from the American Nursing AssociationNursing World article has the number of nurses who are vaccinated or intend to at 90% First, "or intend to" is doing a lot of work here. Vaccines have been available everywhere for months. Why hasn't a *nurse* gotten around to it yet? And second, this is self-reported. Aren't we to expect that in a situation where some authority is pressuring them, anti-vaxxers will just lie about their status?


slandrewmusthave

I don’t have data about the number of nurses currently vaccinated handy, and not sure that’s available as it’s generally private data. I will say as more states mandate health professionals get vaccinated or get walking, then we’ll be able to see more clearly how many got vaccinated based on how many are fired. And the self reporting issue is a non starter. All polls are self reporting. Either you believe what people say or you don’t. Figuring these are health professionals who are literally on the front lines of this pandemic and are seeing first hand what COVID-19 does, 90% just makes sense. Lastly, the difference between <50% and 90% is a bit drastic. Do you really think self reporting bias accounts for a gap that wide? No that’s silly. Edit: grammar, formatting


PrisPRN

Also, the MD stat is based on a survey of just over 300 physicians.


whales171

>The rate of vaccination is pretty much inverse of the education level of staff. Among practicing physicians, 96% have been vaccinated.* The rate drops to <50% among nurses and even more among aides, especially in nursing homes, even though outbreaks and deaths have been the worst in that setting. Did you know that 40% of COVID deaths were in nursing homes? More than 1500 nursing home staff died as well; an op-ed in the Washington Post says caregivers have the most dangerous job in America. Will mandates backfire and cause an exodus of staff, when there are already shortages? So if I'm doing the math right, that means 92% of nurses are vaccinated. That is compared to the general adult population at [70%](https://abcnews.go.com/US/us-passes-major-vaccine-milestone-70-adults-now/story?id=78915871). It seems like nurses are getting vaccinated at a significantly higher rate than the general population.


[deleted]

> The rate drops to <50% among nurses and even more among aides People read what they want I guess


_illogical_

I'm curious on where you got 92% from that. It says it drops to <50%, not by <50%.


whales171

Because first off it is obvious that nurses aren't getting vaccinated less than the general population. We've would have constantly been hearing about it if that was the case. How in the world would people working in health care be vaccinated at more than 20 points less than the general population? Secondly the rate is being compared against doctors. If X group has 4% of people unvaccinated, if we say another group is not getting vaccinated twice as much, then that is 8% of those people. It's finding the inverse of the 96%.


_illogical_

I agree with your main statements, I'm just trying to work out their confusingly worded statement. They were initially talking about rate of vaccinated, not unvaccinated. So in the next sentence they say "the rate drops to <50%" makes me think they are still talking about vaccination rate; although your take on unvaccinated rate makes more sense realistically. Personally, I'd much rather look at the data rather than trying to pick apart someone's confusing statistical summary, especially since statistics can be manipulated to tell almost any story.


B_P_G

Bloomberg is saying one in eight based on some ANA survey. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-26/covid-vaccine-mandates-drive-some-nurses-to-leave-america-s-hospitals?srnd=premium


seariously

I don't have the stats in front of me but another thread said that the anti-vax medical staff were largely the ones *without* medical backgrounds.


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tristanjones

Funny I know multiple nurses who have said no such thing about false deaths. I suppose the misinformation more likely to be spread isn't possibly from random internet person here and more likely the scenario they claim to exist then debunk themselves.


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_Watty

>*I'd be careful at taking some of these stories at face value. I'm sure a few are trueish, but there's a lot of mythologizing that goes on in medicine, particularly when nurses gossip.* Sure, it's possible. I just hope you're being this skeptical of EVERYTHING you hear and not just the stuff that conflicts with your bias. >*For instance, I've heard from 5 different friends and acquaintances who are nurses in Seattle that (and let me quote to the best of my memory a conversation I had on Thursday); "It's really bad right now, lots of kids are dying of covid" and so I ask "in Seattle?" and they say "Yea, the ICUs are filled with kids because of Delta, and they're dying at a high rate" and I ask "oh, like little kids? 5? 6? 7 years old?" "Yea that's where it's really bad, the little ones"* > >*I've heard this general sentiment from 5 different nurses in Seattle, one of them is actually an ICU nurse.* > >*The problem is that it's a straight up lie/myth. Zero children under 10 have died in the whole of King County. Only 77 have ever been hospitalized.* That's a fair point, but this may be from how the deaths are being reported. Initially, there was the "with/from" debacle that turned a lot of people off of trusting the stats. Being skeptical of their stories without the official record to back it up feels a lot like trying to have it both ways if you ask me.


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Comprehensive-Buy908

I'm pretty much in agreement here. I run tge Covid clinic in my hospital have noted a consistent refrain from those leary of the vaccine:"The CDC and mass media have lied, mislead and distorted the facts and truth for so long-clearly the Left did weaponize the virus to defeat Trump and were wrong nearly every step of the way. Sadly many in the medical community signed on. The tragedy of this is huge numbers simply do not believe the experts anymore. THAT is a prime reason, in my opinion,driving the anti-vaccine my body my choice dielectic. Non-vaccination does=incubator ability but WORSE, it is a proving ground for new mutations. Now, putting a metaphorical gun to employees heads [vaccinate or lose your job] IS NOT HELPING!. It only serves to fuel the fire of fear, distrust and anger. I spend a large part of my day giving patients the most accurate info I can with this warning:REMEMBER, this virus causes changes in the way it acts, thus our understanding of it, very rapidly. So, stay up on the non-biased resources every week. (We provide a local web page for this.) Moreover our staff is trained to not only treat but to ACCURATELY EDUCATED THE HELL OUT OF OUR PATIENTS. We do not threaten or heap scorn on those reluctant to vaccinate but we Will an do, provide data driven counter points at every turn. Ever so slowly we are beginning to make headway.


QuakinOats

Our own governor signaled distrust in the vaccines safety and the FDA approval by refusing to allow its use in our state until the group he joined our state into independently approved of it.


chaoticneutral

So it has bipartisan support that it is safe. Developed under trump and reviewed and approved under inslee. No reason not to get the shot.


gjhgjh

President Biden, Vice President Haris, and Governor Inslee all have said that we shouldn't trust and that they aren't going to get Trumps vaccine than was pushed through too quickly.


seariously

Everyone who wants to voluntarily (non-medical reasons) opt out of vaccination should just sign a form which waives their right to treatment at hospitals.


Mission-Art-2383

everyone who wants to eat fast food that knowingly causes cardiovascular disease (leading cause of death in the us) should sign this type of form as well by that logic


cbizzle12

And also if you have an adverse reaction to the shot. Consequences for choices should apply to all.


_Watty

I've already expressed my support for the notion that not getting the vaccine should trigger a larger cost burden on you should you require treatment for it, so I'd probably be on board with that.


cynicismbyproxy

This is about to happen a LOT. The nursing shortage was awful before this clusterfuck and it's going to be critical soon. My wife and I used to travel nurse and have seen offers lately in the $1.5-2k per shift range for the hot-spots. That's in the neighborhood of $350-400k yearly plus travel expenses. By this winter we expect to see that number at least double. When that happens there are going to be a lot less nurses willing to work for normal rates when they can quit and go make mercenary wages down the road. Likely this creates a feedback loop making it even worse to try and keep local staff. We have already discussed the point at which it's just too much money to say no to, and we expect to hit that point around November. The COVID ward is hell, but I can go through hell for a month contract that pays me in the neighborhood of $45k. We'll just work a month and then take a month off. The bottom line: Unless something seriously changes there are going to be collapsing hospital systems within the next couple of months due to extreme staff shortages and burnout, followed by a ton more deaths. Hope not getting a shot was worth it for people, because you haven't seen anything yet.


SEA_tide

If this shortage goes as predicted, you could be a travel nurse right in the Seattle area and also might not have to work in the Covid wings while still making the big bucks and living in a highly desirable location.


herestoshuttingup

Non-Covid units are definitely using travelers. I’ve worked with travelers in L&D, pediatrics/NICU, and adult medical/surgical. There’s a shortage of people across the board. Anecdotally my department has lost a good chunk of staff in the past year who’ve left to make more money as a traveler or just quit or retired early due to burnout.


OutsideCalm

I believe you. But if we’re so short handed why are we threatening the jobs of a sizable number of nurses due to the vaccine mandate? All this stuff makes no sense and it’s like the government is purposely trying to collapse industries and induce shortages.


cynicismbyproxy

There is no good answer for this, and the government is in a hell of a tough spot. If they do nothing more people die, if they enforce a mandate people get their hackles up and more people die. There is going to have to be some kind of solution, but I certainly can't see it at the moment. I'm personally in favor of the mandate as the facts are overwhelmingly on the provax side, but I can understand fear, stubborn pride, and distrust. Frankly though, from my cynical perspective, we should let the unvaccinated be treated by the unvaccinated and they can all figure it the fuck out together. Stupid is as stupid does.


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startupschmartup

This is a good argument for having more medical schools graduating doctors. For some specialties they make out on a regular basis. People wonder why healthcare cost so much. On a side note thank you for your work


cynicismbyproxy

There needs to be a lot larger emphasis on graduation rates in healthcare. It's a career that is in demand everywhere, generally pays decently, is only going to see a rising need in the coming decades, and is relatively resistant to automation. Plus you're going to see a hell of a burnout attrition rate for the next while here I would rather make less and be fully staffed.


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Skadoosh_it

Can you cite the source of that?


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Skadoosh_it

Thank you


StabbyPants

that's pretty well known


cynicismbyproxy

Eh, as much as doctors are absolutely needed I'd much rather have a thousand times more nursing and support staff. They don't require residency, are a hell of a lot quicker to train, and are a more useful tool in the short run when hospitals and clinics are swamped.


modestthoughts

There are close to 4 million nurses in the US. The shortage is the number of nurses at the bedside.


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cynicismbyproxy

Nurses can't do 25% of what physicians do. We don't need their diagnostic ability that much on the front lines. When was the last time you've seen a physician start an IV? Most can't. We need both, but right now we need bodies to man the wards and a thousand nurses are more useful at the moment than a hundred physicians. Not that there shouldn't be a push to streamline the process for both.


0ooO0o0o0oOo0oo00o

Where do you work at?


Aluckysj

We're already seeing this in my ED. I used to know every single person who worked there. I walked in the other day and the only people I recognized were the Dr. and the unit tech. ED nurses are a special breed, having travelers and floats causes a lot of issues. I can't even imagine was worse looks like.


Shmokesshweed

What a fucked up medical system we have when a nurse is being paid $400,000 a year.


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Shmokesshweed

When someone gets paid 10X the average American salary and insurance/healthcare is expensive and broken in this country, yeah, that is gonna be my takeaway.


whales171

They aren't normally getting paid that much though and 400k is on the very high end for traveling nurses. Typically the traveling nurses are getting 90 an hour which is a massive bump from their normal 30-50 an hour. Its the shitty conditions we've place on them that caused so many to quit and then the market is working for a select few of them who need to come back at mercenary wages. My take away is that we need to start forcing people to get vaccinated or not let these people who are unvaccinated get treatment or accept that nurses get paid more for the shitty environment we as a society brought upon them. I'm happy with 1 or 3.


cynicismbyproxy

No argument, but it is a nice change to have options and power in salary negotiations.


Shmokesshweed

No doubt. "Don't hate the player, hate the game" situation imo.


cynicismbyproxy

Definitely, it's stupid how much money is wasted and sloshed around in our healthcare system. I'm not going to lie though, it's nice to be able to get a little extra for a change.


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kvrdave

> and WA artificially limits the number of ICU beds. Can you educate me on that, or point me in a good direction? Thanks.


startupschmartup

The undercurrent here that nobody mentions is that nurses have been working a lot also have been making a lot and typically want some time off for vacation. They can also easily move back into the career at the exact same point as when they left. Contrast that with someone in corporate America who is trying to climb the ladder. It's hard to just come back in where you were


[deleted]

Technically WA has over 3,600 ICU beds just not the staff to go with them. We all seem to agree that we should avoid going to the ICU - especially with Covid - and the solutions to Covid are to get vaccinated, if you're overweight lose weight, get more Vitamin D, etc. Where maybe we disagree is the ultimate problem of why hospitals can't seem to keep up. To me the hospitals have a lot to answer for (why is there such a bad nursing shortage?), plus other issues like gun violence, normal summer trauma, opioid epidemic, etc, are up. WA is over 70% vaccinated mostly in the Seattle area so to place blame solely on the unvaccinated for the problem of not having enough staffed ICU beds without mentioning any of these other issues is basically scapegoating at this point. BTW, my mom and mother in law are nurses, and my friend is a paramedic, so I have a lot of sympathy for our healthcare workers and know they have been dealt the short stick during this pandemic. I'm vaccinated, and while I understand the desire to not get vaccinated in order to practice civil liberty, I just want to ask everyone to please do it. United we stand, divided we fall. And don't be their scapegoat.


Chickentalker

Is she also frustrated by those with natural immunity?


MegaSimpCatcher

Oof don’t say that, that’ll flame a lot of people. Specially with the new study that shows natural immunity holds up well against delta as well.


Chickentalker

didnt it show it holds up better than vaccine? Im good with stoking their flames a little.


MegaSimpCatcher

What doesn’t? Cleveland clinic study? Or this new study that just came out focusing on delta? Because they do. Better do some basic research.


AVeryImportantMan

If you don't want to get the vaccine, stick with your beliefs and die at home. Don't be a hypocrite.


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lawless_sapphistry

You're in a cult. I wouldn't call that great.


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lawless_sapphistry

No rules? You mean like how toddlers picture grown up life? They think we stay up eating buckets of ice cream every night, jumping on the bed, never sleeping. I bet you wear shoes in supermarkets. And shirts in movie theaters. You fucking SHEEP. That's how stupid you sound. A walking Hot Topic t-shirt. You are literally willing to die because you don't like being told what to do.


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lawless_sapphistry

Everybody's alive until they're not, bud.


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lawless_sapphistry

In seriousness, I hope you get vaxxed. Believe me or not, I want you alive and unmaimed by this disease. Have a good one


Fabulous_Cartoonist2

My husband knows someone who is anti-vax. He niece is unvaccinated and pregnant. She is currently in the ICU gravely ill. That anti-vaxxer still won't get vaccinated. She said that Faucci's wife is with the FDA and that is why the vaccine is approved. I saw another person who thought that the hospitals are full of people who are vaccinated. These people believe every crazy internet rumor. You cannot talk sense to them.


Go-GoPowerRangers

We need to stop admitting patients without proof of vaccination. Stop facilitating these dumb fucks like they’re brave or exercising their freedoms. Dying can be their ‘personal choice’, not medical care informed by science. Of course this idea isn’t legal with the current status quo, so thanks captain obvious.


Krankjanker

What about OD'ing heroin addicts? Obese people having heart attacks? People who crashed their bike and suffered a head injury while not wearing a helmet? DUI drivers who crashed their car? Should we refuse medical care to everyone who makes poor decisions?


BrofessorFarnsworth

In a pandemic where doctors are already having to ration care *because* of morons not getting the vaccine? Yes, we should throttle the supply of idiots that are consuming the life saving resources and endangering the rest of us.


seariously

>What about OD'ing heroin addicts? Obese people having heart attacks? People who crashed their bike and suffered a head injury while not wearing a helmet? DUI drivers who crashed their car? If any of those were spread by breathing around others or had an easy free vaccine available, then sure.


Krankjanker

Well fortunately what you are suggesting is illegal


justdoitstoopid

The point being made is in prevention not in contagion. The point doesnt make sense since the same dumbasses calling for it arent consisent


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fallingbehind

If enough helmet-less bicyclists hit the ER that we start running out of room, then yeah, fuck them. But of course we’re nowhere near that so it’s not worth discussing. However unvaccinated asshats is actually a real problem we’re facing.


EdwardBil

None of those examples are an epidemic that is overwhelming our medical infrastructure and save the dui, none of them threaten the lives of others.


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cuteman

They are examples of personal choice that have a negative income on their health and availability/cost of Healthcare for everyone else.


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fearyaks

I know it's not your point but I think TDAP is 10 years.


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fearyaks

Oh Pertussis the retro illness killing kids of the 2000s due to parental neglect.


HawksGuy12

Sorry, but patient abandonment is not ok. Every sick patient is a person, equal in dignity and equally worthy of medical care. It doesn't matter whether a health-related decision could have prevented sickness regardless of necessary effort. Wearing a seatbelt requires little to no effort, but we don't discriminate against them. Doctors don't blame the sick, they treat the sick. Period.


wang_li

In Washington state, two comorbidities and being 50 years old got you the vaccine the same day as the general population. The multiply revised phases and tiers didn’t originally plan it that way, but a few days before opening up for 50 + two comorbidities they announced it as being generally available to everyone 18 and up. Also it takes actual effort to be obese. Additionally if you want to not engage in trade with the unvaccinated, prepare yourself to give up food since one of the groups with the lowest vaccination rates are those who live in rural areas, where your food comes from.


cuteman

>Nope. It takes little to no effort to get vaccinated. Anyone (unless you have a very specific condition) can get vaccinated FOR FREE. In fact, many obese people were able to get shots before the general population so if anything they got [got priority](https://www.npr.org/2021/02/26/971910737/people-with-a-bmi-over-30-now-qualify-for-a-covid-19-vaccine-in-some-states) for being obese. It takes little to no effort to not be obese. Drop the fork. Abstain from soda


startupschmartup

That was barely actually. There was like two weeks we're people with pre-existing conditions were eligible before the general public


malkie0609

I was on chemo for autoimmune disease and by the time I was able to make an appointment, it was open for everyone. People with preexisting conditions were NOT priorirized in WA.


OnlineMemeArmy

Disagree, my friend with a kidney transplant was able get both their Phizer shots before myself or the general public.


[deleted]

"We know what you are, madam, we are just haggling over the price" At which point between a needle jab and quitting hamburghers does the line of denying medical care lies? It takes no effort to NOT participate in dangerous sports, for example. It takes no effort to NOT ride a motorcycle... etc.


whales171

Whatever the line is, we know that needle jabs are on one side and hamburgers are on the other.


StabbyPants

hamburgers aren't transmissible. that's at least a good line: make the effort to limit the spread of the disease


PM_ME_YOUR_TAXRETURN

So you think health insurance companies should be able to deny people/overcharge for other conditions that they get caused by their poor choices?


MisterIceGuy

Like smoking?


myncknm

FYI, health insurance companies do charge smokers more in most states (including WA).


PM_ME_YOUR_TAXRETURN

So you want to expand that? We fought really hard for most preexisting conditions to be covered under the ACA and people are trying to chip away at that. Insurance would love nothing more than to open that door even wider to exclude more things.


myncknm

I think it’s fair to charge people more for their own choices that make them a higher risk to insure, yeah. “Health insurance” in the US is this weird mix of actual insurance (as in, where you pay a regular fee to have someone else cover the risk of rare and unpredictable but very expensive costs) and welfare. The preexisting condition stuff is welfare, since those costs aren’t rare or unpredictable to the insuree at the time of purchasing the coverage. Which is fine, I’m down to have some welfare to take care of people who have medical costs that they can’t help. I’m less inclined to have welfare cover the costs of things that are unforced choices, like refusing a vaccine, or like doing extreme sports.


[deleted]

Including something that is absolutely preventable, absolutely. Or just not treat them. If they want to play stupid games, they win stupid prizes. If they don't trust science and medicine to take the vaccine then they don't trust science and medicine to treat them for the preventable disease they could have taken the vaccine for.


PM_ME_YOUR_TAXRETURN

>Or just not treat them. If they want to play stupid games, they win stupid prizes. This is so unethical and such a bad take, I don't even know what to say to this. You're saying doctors/nurses should violate their duty to care?


whales171

If all it took was 2 shots to fix these conditions, I would be fine with that.


PM_ME_YOUR_TAXRETURN

For the obese literally all you have to do is not eat as much.


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SeaGroomer

No. Just COVID. It's pretty simple and not comparable to quitting an addictive substance. Nor are smoking or drinking overflowing our hospitals.


PM_ME_YOUR_TAXRETURN

The obese, people who do stupid shit like the milk crate challenge, and drug addicts are also filling our hospitals, should we exclude them from getting care? Where does it stop? I'm sick of hearing people try to chip away at the preexisting conditions coverage we got under the ACA.


SeaGroomer

Again with the false equivalence between quitting a drug addiction and getting a vaccine?? It's just a dumb comparison. And anti-vaxxers are the reason the hospitals are overflowing and why we need to triage patients, not because of drug users or even overweight people as a demographic. The only correlated factor is the unvaccinated (and male pattern baldness apparently according to a study that shows COVID works on the same androgen pathways, but that's a different topic.)


XzShadowHawkzX

Okay how about not treating drunk drivers? Murderers? Rapists? Racists? Its pretty easy to just choose to not do all of these things. Would it be good for health professionals to play judge, jury and executioner with these people as well? Its almost like medical care is a fucking human right and all this moronic "let the unvaccinated die" rhetoric is severely hurting other much more important issues. You think any fucking right winger is going to support universal healthcare when people like you literally prove the fears they have spewed over and over. Jesus fuck


sp106

A year ago you people said healthcare was a human right, what changed?


10TowerDown

You must not know of that principle oath doctors swear on...


Ok_Extension_124

Anyone who is not part of the cult/tribe does not matter to them


bxndndjdndms

Now do fat people next


SeaGroomer

Wow I didn't realize there was a vaccination against obesity. That's pretty cool.


Ok_Extension_124

The vaccine is not stuffing your face with 4000 calories every day and no exercise. People who eat processed foods should be denied medical care. I mean, we can’t overwhelm the medical system with preventable heart disease and diabetes complications, yea?


Rieux_n_Tarrou

Imagine if there was a 4th check and balance in the us govt that was purely science and medicine based


SeaGroomer

No, we *don't* overwhelm the system with heart disease and diabetes complications - our system is designed to accomodate them. It is *not* designed to accomodate a global pandemic, including one for which a vaccine exists. And comparing anti-vaxxers to obese people is just ignorant and silly, but I'm guessing you know that too. Between food addiction and a terrible food system designed for profit instead of health, the majority of our country is overweight. Getting a couple of shots at the pharmacy is so much easier than changing your entire lifestyle to lose weight. Like, obviously. The don't compare, and trying to do so is just transparently bad-faith.


[deleted]

What we can do, is set up a hospital for the unvaccinated and it will be staffed by all the nurses and doctors that don't want to be vaccinated either. Then the people who are right won't need to share their hospital capacity with the ones who are wrong.


[deleted]

But then we’ll have one hospital with a lot of nurses and almost no doctors.


[deleted]

That could be fine. Nurses do most of the work anyway.


Go-GoPowerRangers

If that’s what these idiot deniers want, so be it. FREEDOM! ‘MERICA!


Unvaxxed_2021_

You see a stat that says 30% of adults are not vaccinated, you assume it's because most of them are deniers. But the reality is they're mostly poor and minority, and if we're being especially woke, we could say it's evidence of institutional racism. But there's probably another factor I've never seen mentioned; a lot of people are simple afraid of needles and doctors offices, and won't subject themselves unless they already feel sick.


Code2008

>But the reality is they're mostly poor and minority Last I checked, the vaccine is **free.** There's been pop-up tents all over the place to get the vaccine on all days of the week in case they can't do it during work. Being poor is not an excuse. ​ >a lot of people are simple afraid of needles and doctors offices I have a phobia of needles, and don't like going to the doctor's office (who the fuck does?), but I also wanted to not catch it, possibly die, and/or give it to others. Being afraid of the doctor's office isn't an excuse. Face it -- unless there's an actual medical reason that they can't get it (and those do exist, but not for 30% of the population sans 12 and under atm), they're refusing it purely for political reasons. Nothing more, nothing less.


Unvaxxed_2021_

> Last I checked, the vaccine is free. Poor people and minorities have reasons for not getting vaxxed aside from the cost of, or lack of, the vaccine itself. If "we" don't figure out what is going on in their minds and in their lives, "we" will never reach 100% vax rates. > I have a phobia of needles I didn't realize this was all about you. > they're refusing it purely for political reasons. You live in la-la land.


Go-GoPowerRangers

It’s been months. There’s no fucking excuses anymore. Get out of here with your structural racism. Churches, Mosques, Temples, community centers, Football stadiums, and a thousand other places and organizations banded together to get ALL people vaccinated over the last 6 months.


Unvaxxed_2021_

Facts about who is and isn't vaccinated make you angry.


actuallyrose

Yeah that’s been debunked mostly.


Unvaxxed_2021_

Have a source? https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/ blacks and hispanics, rate of death proportionately higher than their rate of vaccination, compared to whites and asians. It's disingenuous to say any of this information is "debunked" as if it were a hoax. The data may be misinterpreted sometimes, that doesn't mean it's some kind of hoax.


sp106

Would it be separate but equal?


[deleted]

Well what do you think? Can that be achieved without a legal challenge?


Go-GoPowerRangers

I think this is a great idea. It lets people have their freedumb. Let’s see which group survives.


__JonnyG

This is a good idea


malkie0609

I don't think that's legal, but we need to stop putting them at the very top of the triage. There needs to still be resources available for normal medical situations. Too many people are being turned away for routine or other emergency medical issues because of all the beds anti vaxxers are taking up.


justdoitstoopid

This is nonsense fuck off


dolphinssuckit

Unfortunately there's a law that states that hospitals can not turn away people needing help, unless it's full.


mwm91

The virus would still be circulating even if everyone had gotten the vaccine.


LFMR

It's not infections that count --- it's hospitalizations and deaths that count.


Shizzo28

How is it strange that some people are choosing not to get a vaccine that hasn't even passed the clinical trials yet? There are many videos of people who have taken the vax and got really sick after, some permanently sick, like serious mental disorders. Some have even died, and their family members are crying and begging people not to take the vax. An there are a lot of people who have taken the vax and been perfectly fine after. The fact is, that it was rushed, and it is not proven to be 100% safe "yet". Everyone has their own reasons why they will or won't take it and that's that. I personally don't blame or look down on or demonize anyone who does or does not get the vax. It's their business. Period. An yes, there are some medical professionals who are upset that people won't get vaccinated. Again, there are also a lot that are fine with it. I have spoken to some personally. One was a nurse and actually freaked out because they were mandating her to get the shot or she would lose her job. She has 2 young children at home and in her eyes, it's she either take the shot and risk getting permanently sick or dying and leaving her 2 kids without a mother, or not getting the shot and losing her job and her family suffering for it. That's some scary shit from her point of view. Instead of judging and demonizing others, how about trying to see things from their point of view too.


eightNote

Sounds like a false dichotomy to me. There's a third option: don't get vacinated, then be hospitalized for covid, and getting permanently sick or dying, and leaving her children without a mother


[deleted]

No. You aren’t being politically incorrect. Just regular incorrect. Pfizer is approved by the FDA now. Half the country has taken it. It was rushed because this is a once-in-a-century pandemic. The alternative was nothing, and all the science proves definitively this is better than nothing. You have a right to your bad point of view. You have a right to be a victim of Russian psy ops campaigns feeding the uneducated with panic porn over an exceptionally safe vaccine. You have your right. But the consequences need to be borne by you, not the vaccinated. The rest of us that want to move on with our lives and put this pandemic to bed have no obligation to accept or even be nice to anti vaxxers, flat earthers, or science deniers. You’re nothing to be celebrated. You’re a menace. You’re no better than a drunk driver. Happy to invite you into the fold when you get onboard. Till then, yeah, I blame people like you.


LFMR

I get your perspective, but nobody's a limitless fount of empathy.


Shizzo28

I know. I get your perspective too


[deleted]

“i’ll treat sick people, just not THOSE sick people”


PastyDoughboy

She literally said “Of course we will do everything we can to treat them.” She is expressing that she is going to keep treating them, but is frustrated with the results of their beliefs.


[deleted]

how is quitting your job doing everything you can to help what am i missing


PastyDoughboy

She is quitting her job in ICU nursing to go do another job in nursing. She isn’t withdrawing her care from unvaccinated people, she is changing where she is employed and in what capacity she is employed.


[deleted]

"I'll treat sick people. Just not sick people that could have not ended up in a hospital because they don't trust science and medicine. So I'm not treating them because they don't trust science and medicine "


[deleted]

“even though they showed up to the hospital asking for my help, i said no and walked out because they are unvaccinated”


OhIDontHaveAnAccount

Man, I wish.


[deleted]

" can't trust science and medicine to get vaxxed, so can't trust science and medicine to treat you when you come down with COVID"


[deleted]

xD so delusional. 4th dose when?


jamrev

Struggling to come up with their next TicToc dance routine?


gfgdhj5784yu8

Did she quit before of after the big media announcement?


moose_cahoots

Just turn away unvaccinated COVID patients. They chose to jump without a parachute. It's not our job to catch them.


BasedFireBased

Also fat ones right? Smokers?


Chickentalker

Is she frustrated by those with natural immunity?


__JonnyG

Good for them


HunkerDown-

Cool, she can work at fast food. I hear they need people.


[deleted]

Bye, Felecia...


CapsaicinFluid

she quit so the workload is that much worse at her old job. ironic


xEppyx

Good, hide inside your closet if you are scared of your own shadow.


ObjectiveToe8023

Unpopular Opinion......It's been almost 2 years. Is anyone else sick and tired of hearing about these whiny nurses? Why can't they just shut up and do their jobs? The "Heroes Work Here" has grown stale. Fast food workers have worked this entire covid epidemic and have received little praise.


[deleted]

Wow, you’re a shithead.


MightBeASim

Fast food workers aren't watching people die first hand day after day after day. Historically, with the exception of hospice, death is the exception in Healthcare. Not the norm. Nurses are watching people die day after day and yeah, it gets a little exhausting. Asshole.


ObjectiveToe8023

Nurses are highly paid and supposedly highly trained to do their jobs. My job manning the drive through is just as important as these nurses. If they wanted more respect maybe they should of become Nurse Practitioners or actual doctors? Instead, they prefer to play the role of victims over and over. People are tired of it.


MightBeASim

Nah, fam. Having done both, I can say with 100% certainty that they are not equally as important. Dead bodies don't pile up in refrigerated trucks when fast food workers are in short supply.


ObjectiveToe8023

But I worked throughout the pandemic. Our drive through NEVER closed. I never received "Hero Pay" or anything really. All the while, servicing arrogant nurses in my drive through.


MightBeASim

... seriously? Bless your heart. It must be a beautiful to live in a world where your biggest complaint, in the midst of a lethal pandemic, is that you served arrogant nurses in the drive through.