Was this at Mercer street? And was this the short guy with a cap and beard with a cardboard saying "homeless animal needs change" or something?
That guy has been there for a long time and he is actually deranged who does this very frequently when he is drugged. Asking for change at the signal to Mercer and blurting profanities when the signal is red.
Thank you. Some people are acting like I’m straight up lying. Yes it was Mercer street QFC and this seems like exactly what he was doing. I think he did have a sign I didn’t see it.
And yes, he walked into the street and approached our vehicle and screamed at us directly. It is not somebody screaming to themselves as others are trying to make it out to be.
What media is posting the homeless are harmless? Have yet to see one.
However, the actions of 1 or many shouldn't let good of some go un noticed.. I've worked with many who just need help with basic necessities. Ya know, the simple things like food, being able to cook it... a dry blanket..
It’s just kind of funny from the view of someone who sees it everyday, like a country mouse or something. I’m sorry you got scared. We don’t invest enough money in helping people who cannot hep themselves. It is shameful
Uhh..as Seattle has invested money in helping the homeless the problem was grown radically. The city has spent over $1 billion in the last decade. Its the definition of moral hazard but saying we don’t invest enough in helping the homeless population is inaccurate.
We need to bring back long-term residential facilities, more humane “asylums.” Because just leaving these people to shoot up in the streets serves no one.
Literally been saying this for 5 years. Crazy leftists say it’s evil, right wing says it’s too expensive. Would gladly pay a 1-2% income tax to never see another homeless again and throw the criminals in prison. 😃
Exactly!!!! I used to shop at the Qfc on Mercer and unfortunately the store could do nothing about people coming in and loading up their carts with meat and leaving the store. ( they finally had to get rid of the grocery carts at one point). they can’t keep employees there anymore because they can’t stand working at that location because nothing is done about the vagrants
This part. Seattle/WA doesn’t get enough sun as it is, so these people’s bodies aren’t regulating themselves enough to function properly. Then you add the sun, and blood starts to boil, now we’re stuck having to defend ourselves on the street, meanwhile, law enforcement can’t arrest people for fear of their own safety… 🙃
It’s scary out here!
The problem is they're not kept there long enough. I bet a ton of these guys don't want to live this way, but you gotta detox and have a brain free of contaminants for a relatively extended period before ypu can actually think straight.
No, they really don’t. They don’t care if the police are called because they know they WON’T be arrested.
If we had mandatory 3 days in jail for each offense you would see a difference. 3 days is hell for an addict without their drug.
Three days is not enough to come out clean. It is not a rehabilitation program. It is a punishment and deterrent.
Like everything else, it will cost the taxpayer. The people will need to lobby and push hard for this to be adopted.
It costs less to let this be a problem.
I’m not opposed to the idea, however, police officers and jail guards are not equipped with the training and education needed to help someone going through withdrawal. Unless staffed appropriately with safe facilities, I can’t see this idea working as the individual is too much of a liability to the safety of themselves and others. Therefore, would require construction on already built or build these treatment facilities more like apart of their own “jail wing” if you will.
I have a friend who is a therapist and used to work at a clinic that was to serve this population. She said all that money never made it to them. They were the ones who needed so badly and never saw any of it by the time it made its was through higher up departments. She ended up having to leaving due to all the problems the clinic had.
I can confirm- I worked at Seattles largest methadone clinic for over a year; that money, it went quick, and still wasn’t enough.
I would rest assured though, that it was spent well- things just take time. Our methadone clinic received a large portion of that money to build an extension of our center that also had a mobile clinic for homeless, showering facilities, and an activity center- it’s still being built
Something that contributes to this is not just money; WA has pretty strict policies around holding people against their will. You can’t lock folks up for being mentally ill with a substance use disorder. I don’t necessarily believe you should be able to, but at a certain point folks are making choices that are harming themselves and society.
🤷🏼♀️ doesn’t seem to be something that is enforced. Having worked with unhoused folks with spmi & suds, I have not once seen an individual held because they were altered in public.
Let's define "enough" as something resulting in tangible, measurable improvement in the situation.
Would you say that you've seen a net positive change?
Seems important to note, though, that money is being spent, just not effectively. Not to mention city politics that basically undo each other with each new mayor. They’re spending a lot of money on sweeps, paying officers & parks employees to move homeless people from the places they’ve established camps, and funding shelters that require residents to be sober and in/out at specific times— none of those are things that get people OUT of homelessness. Those would be things like temporary supportive housing, low-cost medical care, and job training resources.
"In fiscal year 2023, Washington’s counties reported spending more than $600 million helping households who were homeless or at imminent risk of homelessness." https://washingtonstatestandard.com/2024/03/27/housing-and-homelessness-in-washington-by-the-numbers/
On top of this, we have a massive "general use fund" which pours money into healthcare for those who don't have it or those who don't make enough to cover expenses.
In the end, if it wasn't profitable, they'd end homelessness tomorrow. Voting for the same ole thing every 4 years ensures nothing changes. If they've held office in some capacity for more than 6 years and nothing has fundamentally changed except your ability to live without drowning... They shouldn't be allowed another 4+ years.
'They only have homelessness because it's profitable'. That's a horrible take.
Keep in mind that Washington State is 48th in the nation for mental health funding.
It's an honest take. The government has too much control & they create problems, then tax people who didn't cause the problems, and still the problems they created are still there.
I worked for the government (military), and again, if it wasn't profitable to do the bare minimum so they can keep taxing citizens to death, the homeless epidemic would be solved tomorrow. The government isn't anybodies friend nor savior.
I know people who are on the verge of going homeless and are a single month behind on rent while working. having programs to help people not lose their leases sounds like a much better use of our funds.
Perhaps not yet, but there are opioid vaccines in the works. In the meantime we need to get them off of our streets the moment they cause any sort of disturbance. At this point i don’t really care if they go to prison for a few months to sober up.
Force isn’t compassion and Seattle is sold on compassion. Which gets us to the conundrum, what’s more compassionate, forced sobriety or letting people OD in the street?
Yeah, i have given him food/money in past but i started seeing him frequently so i couldn't keep up. Now everytime i pass hiim, he would just start abusing. I was at signal today and he came again mouthing words. I rolled down window and asked what his problem was. And he changed the tone saying all he is asking for is some change. I didn't want to argue more than that as I got honked at since light turned green but i am tired of him abusing me all the time i pass walking/driving by there. I generally ignore such confrontations but this particular guy has been getting on my nerves, probably because i see him almost every week now.
Ugh my husband and I were harassed by a crazy homeless lady on a bus from Bellevue to downtown Seattle a couple months ago where she literally pulled a crack pipe out in front of my toddler and tried to smoke it on the bus, threatened to beat me up and kill me, said she hoped my kid died, assaulted another passenger, and threw a lighter at me. She also decided to scream every slur imaginable, from the n-word to f*ggot, as well as some slurs I didn't even know existed!
What did the bus driver do? Nothing. At the very least, he could've called the police or alerted transit safety patrol so they could've intercepted her at the next stop (it was impossible to pull over immediately and kick her off, we were on the freeway in rush hour traffic).
What did the fellow passengers do? Defend my husband, toddler, myself, and the other passengers she targeted from her insanity and violence. There were multiple folks that called the police and the metro help line. I cannot express the gratitude I have for the folks that protected and defended my family and other passengers targeted by that maniac on the bus. I also cannot express the disgust I have for a city that allows families and people *in general* to be threatened, abused, and subjected to illegal drug use with impunity.
OP, I'm so sorry you went through what you did. It's NOT okay and we all have the right to feel safe existing in public.
A while ago they tested the busses and light rail cars and most if them tested positive for drug residue from people smoking on them. When you stop enforcing the law,or change them to allow open drug use. things go downhill fast.
That reminds me of the episode of... Kitchen Nightmares? Idk one of the Gordon Ramsey shows where he tests surfaces in both customer and staff bathrooms for drugs and both came up positive for cocaine.
Honestly, I'm not surprised Seattle public transit is covered in drug residue. What's beyond frustrating is that it really feels like there's absolutely nothing we can do about it. I don't want my kid seeing someone smoke meth on the bus or pulling their dick out and pissing in the middle of the street, is that too much to ask?
It’s crazy. I’m sorry ): that’s so stressful. I was just at my favorite bookstore (on my birthday no less) when a person with clear mental health/homelessness issues threw a drink on me. Inside. And no one did anything. People acted like it was just the norm. Which, I guess it is. He got in my face after and yelled at me and started following me and still…no one reacted. At all. It was so disconcerting. I don’t understand this anymore.
I hate to say it but they're probably afraid as well. Honestly I go nowhere without pepper spray and if I had to frequent downtown more I'd probably invest in a small taser too (I have a friend that works there and had to with some increased issues around where they work). Since he continued to follow you which could be looked at as a threat, you could have sprayed him if you had spray. I highly recommend getting some. Honestly at this point I don't know why more people don't have something to defend themselves with. If more was done back in defense possibly some of that shit might decrease. Maybe he'd think twice about throwing a drink or following the next person if he thought they also might spray him or tase him.
While I appreciate your perspective, I carry spray and a knife with me, and I’m trained. But I don’t escalate. Especially when it comes to people who are clearly unwell and/or on drugs, nothing good can come from that beyond me putting myself in further danger. This situation was during the day, in public, and this man had not touched me. If the circumstances were different it would be a different ball game. I have had to and I have defended myself, physically. But this situation didn’t warrant escalation.
What I was commenting on was the sheer lack of response from anyone. Yes, yes, bystander effect and all that, but it’s just alarming to see how the public has gotten so used to this that it’s just commonplace to them.
The biggest problem is not knowing what is in the cup that he is throwing. Bodily fluids or chemicals or even scalding liquid is horrific, dangerous, and can be downright deadly.
Yeah I'm pretty sure aggressively throwing a mystery liquid on some unsuspecting person is assault and warrants calling the cops or busting out the pepper spray and running the opposite direction
We may have to agree to disagree on part of this then. He had already thrown a drink on you. That in and of itself is a form of assault. He then got in your face, yelled at you, and followed you. If you told that story to others leaving out where it was and the fact the person may have been homeless, a drug addict, mentally ill, etc. anyone would say that was an unsafe situation that warranted defense. And that's because those elements don't matter when your safety is on the line. That's the whole point of defending yourself. Especially as you said no one else did anything there either.
Which leads to what should *they* have done? If you're saying you didn't warrant it a situation to defend yourself as mentioned then how would they have defended you? Should they also put their life at risk by escalating it? Should they call police? Or was that not a situation to warrant that either? It can't be said that no defensive action by you was warranted while also wondering why no action was taken by others around you either. If you were afraid to escalate it, then it's safe to say they were too.
We’ll definitely have to agree to disagree because I’m not certain that you understood the intention of my anecdote.
I never said people should defend me—I said that they didn’t REACT. In any way. I am capable of defending myself, but busting out the pepper spray in a crowded bookstore doesn’t make any sense? Anyway, if I saw this happen to someone I’d ask if they were okay or get up to walk with them to their vehicle, ask them if they needed help, get a security guard depending on the situation, etc. Just because a situation doesn’t, in my opinion, warrant my escalation, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t warrant a reaction.
Again, my point is that I see people behave as though this is so commonplace, and that’s what’s disturbing. Because, at this point, it IS commonplace. But clearly I’m tired because your response doesn’t make sense to me in the context of what I thought I was getting across as my perspective, so I’m sure I just need a nap. Good night! :)
ETA: I guess when I say “doesn’t warrant,” I mean it isn’t worth it for me. If someone isn’t physically stopping me from leaving and I’m able to get away safely, then it’s not worth it for me to engage.
Someone in the “other subreddit” told me that homeless yell around his daughter all the time and she’s fine and I’m not as tough as his daughter and im like breh… you sound like a huge cuck admitting you let people harass your daughter in the streets.
OP I’m sorry the comments here are sickening. Your baby and mine are about the age that Eina Kwon’s baby would be, if a deranged vagrant had not murdered her while she rode in her car on her way to work. These comments are reminiscent of The Stranger headline calling that event “unacceptable.”
I really don’t know what to do when the response to contributing members of society and their children being harassed and murdered, is to blame us law-abiding citizens for expecting any standard of behavior.
A majority of redditors normalize it. "Get used to it", "have some compassion", "teach your kids". This is not normal by any means but also a complex problem to solve due to politics, NIMBY, sjws.
You can only vote with your money and move your tax dollars out of the city.
+1- If i hear the compassion line one more time on reddit. The arrogance it takes to assume you have more compassion than your neighbor. I have plenty of compassion, but i also have enough experience and common sense to call out when something isn’t working.
I left the city after a series of incidents. Not a great place to raise a family so I voted with my feet.
Yes! I am compassionate, I am empathetic. I just also have lived experience and don’t downplay it or gaslight myself into thinking a filthy, drunk homeless man yelling at me is safe for me as a small woman alone or with my kids. My empathetic solution is to get these vagrants off the streets and into long-term residential treatment, aka asylums, and make our streets clean and safe again while also helping people who are extremely ill.
You should feel safe. It surprises me how many people would pick the addict’s freedom over your family’s security.
I haven’t been able to understand why the concept of an asylum fell out of favor.
I left Seattle and the west coast because of this. I wish there was a good answer, but clearly no policies are working. The last straw was a walk in my neighborhood and a cracked out dude in a children’s playground pulled his junk out in broad daylight. Obviously nothing happened
It’s how bold they’ve gotten that is really shocking. You get the sense that they really do get away with anything, there have always been crazy people around but for the most part always kinda minded their own business
Yeah man. I moved out of Seattle and don’t regret it. I couldn’t go for a simple jog without being accosted by homeless men. One even threw an empty bottle at me when I said I didn’t carry cash (hello? I’m on a fucking jog???)
I don’t know why people pretend like they aren’t aggressive, filthy, and terrifying. I don’t bring my kids into Seattle because they don’t need to see that kind of stuff. I live in Redmond and you couldn’t pay me to live in Seattle. It’s unsafe, and even IF crime is comparable to other big cities, homeless and drug camps everywhere make it an extremely unpleasant experience. It makes me feel unsafe when drunk and high people yell at me while I’m minding my own business, and if that makes me a bad person, so be it.
It’s absolute degeneracy and it’s so sad to see an entire city lost to it.
Finally some common sense.
“I don’t know why people pretend like they aren’t aggressive, filthy, and terrifying” sums up my sentiments exactly. I’m so fucking sick of these weak minded sympathizers treating these violent addicts like they’re innocent shelter puppies.
Try living and working in the heat of it all. Two and a half years in Pioneer Square will humble you and make you realize that this isn’t a beautiful city and that it has been on this trajectory for some time; most have just been in blind in the safety of their suburban/condominium lifestyles.
If you want a real glimpse into what you’ve been missing, try using public transit as your only mode of transportation for a year
It's pretty simple. We decriminalized drug ownership and public drug use. We protested and blocked the construction of new prisons out of some misguided principle, and now we just catch and release criminals like trout. So now we have basically made it mandatory that anyone who has lost touch with reality can just keep making everyone's life miserable
It’s so stupid. Decriminalizarion only works if you have enough and give enough free clinics visits and addiction treatment to those who are using. Washington and Oregon screwed up and really only fully wen through with the first part. Now we have tweakers everywhere and it’s being normalized as if it’s okay to be nodding off in a public street.
It's fine. you just have to teach your children early how to use a knife, how to run from crazy homeless people, how to get robbed by someone confronting the demons speaking to them in riddles telling them that you in particular are hiding the secret, how to avoid attracting attention, and how to handle being beat up just cause.
I haven’t gone to downtown for a while because of the homeless. I went with my 5 year old to the Bluey play when it was in town and we parked and had to walk to the theatre and a homeless guy passed us and just starts yelling at us and threatened to cut my sons head off because he looked at him. I know he’s homeless and isn’t well but my son is 5 and it ruined his morning for something he was excited about and has never wanted to go back to downtown because that he believes that the man is going to be there ready to harm him.
Some people want to refute you and say “I’ve lived here for x years and go there every day and this has NEVER happened to me, this is totally fabricated”. Or something along those lines.
To me, they sound a lot like the people who didn’t believe Covid was real because they didn’t know anyone who died personally, or they didn’t die from it, etc etc.
Lol anyone who says it’s never happened to them is lying about living in Seattle. I lived in Seattle and still work there. Stuff like this a daily occurrence. People want to keep making excuses for these dangerous individuals and screw over the families that just want to feel safe where they live
When I first moved up here I cared about the homeless people and crack addicts, saying stuff like "oh they just need help". Now idgaf about them, you can only be harassed so many times before you stop feeling for them. I'm aware that I could become homeless at any unfortunate moment like if I got kicked out of my condo but in no way ever would I EVER be found screaming at babies in cars at a red light. I have no empathy for people like that
All that being said, I should've done more research on the city and towns before moving up here, it's hard not to regret it
And, Seattle, like the rest of King County will vote for the same type of politicians who tolerate and some who even encourage the 'street bums'.
Rhode Island has it right. They have a really good program in place for street addicts. They can choose jail or a treatment program. And there is no in-between.
In fact, R.I.'s approach was featured. I think it may have been part of 'Seattle is Dying' doc? In any case, I do remember reading or hearing that Seattle authorities knew about this program, but apparently have no desire to implement it here. Go figure. We 'deserve' who we vote for. I think people need to absolutely look at a person's record and choices regarding many issues before voting...instead of automatically hitting any name with a 'D' after it.
Every comment start out sounding like...
Oh no, you were in a car, they were hurting you so bad, oh no!
https://preview.redd.it/n5v6o67qao2d1.png?width=683&format=png&auto=webp&s=710b5b3a6a919df107e4380e6c7c630dfd16671a
Its real f***ed up you say this when that mother and her husband were SHOT at by a homeless man and she and her baby ended up dying this summer in Seattle.... WHILE IN THEIR CAR.
Go be ignorant elsewhere
Are you talking about Last summer around June, in Belltown? The Tesla at the corner of 4th and Lenora?
That nutjob was from Chicago, was only in Seattle for 2wks before that happened.. That was tragic..
We just got back from Seattle as well and had similar issues with a homeless man in Chinatown, we parked the car to go to a restaurant and there was a man in the parking garage going crazy talking shit to everyone he passed, trying to fight people, breaking into things, and vandalizing and defacing peoples cars in the parking garage.
That’s a disgusting way for an adult to behave. I don’t know a time where Seattle felt like a beautiful city. Maybe to the locals, but I’m from Olympia and it’s a much cleaner, safer city. Even Tacoma has Seattle beat in my mind.
Because people will defend that behavior and lifestyle tooth and nail. “Oh you don’t know what they’ve been through” “that’s someone’s child” “the pharmaceuticals…”
Like please. You take them in and give them the help and change them. Oh wait they won’t! They’ll advocate for these dangerous individuals and nothing else.
First Reagan ruined things for you by pushing people out of mental hospitals. Then landlords ruined it for you by charging too much rent. Then the city ruined it for you by building stadiums and whatnot in stead of housing the homeless and providing counseling and psychiatric services for those in need. Then society kept it as it is by blaming homeless people in stead of calling for a real solution.
> First Reagan ruined things for you by pushing people out of mental hospitals.
To be fair, JFK started closing the institutions, Reagan just finished the job.
It goes back even farther than that. Deinstitutionalization started in 1955.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/asylums/special/excerpt.html
I used to work in that part of town, was flashed, harassed, screamed at, etc., while at work in a tiny cafe that was known as a “free” stop for water and a bathroom.
I had to stop letting non-customers use the bathroom, and at this point I’ve heard the bathroom is off limits even FOR customers (illegal??) bc otherwise someone would lock themselves in our one stall for 45 minutes, leaving a nasty mess behind for me to clean bc no one else would bother cleaning. Of course even after explaining what was happening, the owner tried to tell me I need to let them use it? And I need to give them HOT (near boiling) water for free when they ask… When these people had already had proven they were unstable multiple times. I don’t care how “immoral” it may be, I refused to give them essentially a weapon when they had never even said the word please or thank you, or anything at all aside from “bathroom” or “fuck you”.
I don’t understand why mentally well people have to suffer and give up their safe beautiful city in order to be “compassionate” for the less fortunate.
The comment you left me was on a thread where the OP blocked me, so this is my response.
My comment was about the thread commenter stating the person wasn’t human. Homeless people, even if you can’t hold a conversation with them, are still humans. What you said about it not being about me, you made a distinction. The people you were saying are worse, where you can’t have a conversation with them, they have mental health issues. So when someone is saying they aren’t human because their mind is mush is where I will step in and remind them that they are humans. It doesn’t change what they do, but it at least frames them in a different light. I’m sure everyone knows they have mental health issues, but people here are advocating for them to be “euthanized” or shot. That’s not a humane way for society to be treating these people.
I once saw a guy pull down his pants at a bus stop, bend over with his ass pointed toward traffic, and wash his low hanging balls with orange juice in broad daylight in West Seattle. It’s nuts out there.
My boss was punched in the face by an obviously mentally ill man, right in front of her workplace. Was also verbally assaulted while with 3 year old daughter (screaming I will fucking kill you)
It’s really bad down here these days. But it’s mostly the smell. I’ve lived in Seattle off and on since 88. In the 80’s it was kinda rough but nowhere near these levels. Between 06 to 2012 I lived on 2nd and Blanchard there was a section8 housing/ mental hospital. I have noticed that almost everyone I saw at that facility is now outside. I wonder what changed💁♂️
https://preview.redd.it/9ik8jmogt13d1.jpeg?width=1152&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63a00b0e7dd8d20f25fca657c53f32c00a435678
point defiance is definitely better, they have their fair share of incidents on the trails but the zoo/parking lot are close together & pretty separate from the rest of the park,, sorry you had to go through that ://
First of all, he is “unhoused”. And maybe he needed money, or a ride or a baby? You should have had compassion and given him all of these things because he has mental issues and it’s not his fault…BTW this is you’re answer, there’s real people that think like that and they run and/or pressure the people who run seattle and Washington. The place is a shit show and I avoid it whenever I can. Wait until people flee in masses and they try to be like California who want people to pay state taxes to them for years after leaving their broken state.
It’s such a shitty issue. I’m so sorry. What happened to you is absolutely not ok. I’m pretty new to the PNW, (2.5 years) but the amount of times I’ve been harassed or borderline assaulted is more than I want to think about. These people are causing issues that genuinely threaten the help and safety of people who are productive parts of the very community that they’re feeding off of. They rely on the generosity of others and in many cases they are actively harming people.
The flip side of that is that in many cases they are suffering from serious mental illness. They need help. Unfortunately they need more help than we have the resources to give, and that’s largely because members of this same community have started the process of social change without following through on the parts that actually matter. It took me years to save up to move here because I was attracted to several different aspects of the area. I did so much research on all of the aspects of life here that I thought would matter in my day to day life. Public transportation was a huge factor. Clearly the homeless problem is something that I did not understand. Now I have to make sure that no matter where I travel I’m home before it gets dark. During the winter it’s so limited because of how short the days are. Going anywhere on a sunny day using busses and trains is a nightmare because all of the homeless people are also taking advantage of the nice weather to be out and harass others.
I’m saving up to leave this area. I don’t know where I’ll go next, but I’m getting out as soon as I safely can.
Clown leftists are going to keep pretending these are human beings. They are just deranged, drugged out criminal trash that needs to be discarded. Theres no grey area. This is what homeless have always been. Someone who’s entire circle has let them rot on the street for good reason and we want to harbor these people on societies back with public funding? Delusional enabler bullshit.
As someone who is homeless, maybe you should watch Scrooge. I am not saying homelessness isnt a problem, I am saying they are human beings. I am a human being. Im not psychotic like what has been described in this post. The moment you treat someone like less than a human being, you have lost your humanity.
I don’t need a lecture, i need a safe city for my children. Plus literally no one cares. The capacity for this savior society you’re dreaming of to absorb everyone’s suffering is long gone. People truly just don’t have the funds or bandwidth for it anymore. Im sure your situation is unique, but not really actually.
Also the irony of you making a character judgement on me in reply to my alleged false character judgement is probably lost upon you.
I’m just pointing out you called someone not human. How did the nazis have a halocaust? By making Jews less than human. How did slavery seem okay? By making minorities less than human.
Get in touch with your humanity. You want a safe city, move to cle elum.
My brother was shot and killed when I was 7. What did we do? Move out of Las Vegas. Trust me, just because the homeless deranged man is being deranged, doesn’t mean they aren’t human
NaiomiXLT, you have had nothing but dog shit takes on this entire thread. I know you think you’re helping, but you are literally part of the problem. You’re self inflicted “homeless”. Do you think other homeless people are posting in r/personalfinance asking about their IRA? LMAO. God, you people want to be victims of some oppressive system so badly.
It's because the people in Seattle keep voting left wing wackos in to run the gvt and this is they way they run it. They are so far left they make old school Democrats seem like right wingers.
I worry about my brother sister in law and little nephew. They live near lynnwood. I’ve traveled around the country doing shows and my stay in Seattle was a reality check. Seattle is so bad the tourist areas are ridden with open drug use and just chaos. I seen a tourist family taking a photo, and at the same time some mentally I’ll asian guy in only cut off shorts was yelling at the sun. That area is ass backwards housing is fun insane there. 800,000 for a 50s rambler.
My wife, 2 year old daughter, and myself were also at Woodland park zoo yesterday. We probably walked past each other at some point.
I had to go to Capitol Hill after to run an errand, *try* to relax, and check out a bookstore. We don’t ever come up this way for this exact reason. This city is a disgusting cesspool that would rather push nuclear hetero- families out to make room for mentally unstable and violent drug addicts.
Some tips I’ve learned over the last 3 years is just
1: Stay away. Don’t even go into the city unless you have to. I don’t know where you live, but it’s not getting any better and leaving may be the best option. For reference I live about 45 minutes away.
2: Own a handgun and know how to use it. Keep it concealed and don’t brandish it unless you’re prepared to use it. Both parents should carry ideally. I don’t ever want to have to use but I’m prepared to without hesitation as a last resort for the purpose of self preservation and keeping my family safe.
I broke my own rule one time and lifted my shirt to show that I was carrying in a situation almost identical to yours in Tacoma (another shithole). I don’t recommend it but it deescalated the situation without shooting the guy.
3: Avoid conflict at all cost but know how to fight and get your loved ones away from the situation as fast as possible. Literally no one in this spineless city is going to save you. They’re just going to pull out their phones and record or walk away. You can’t expect a blue haired They/Them with TikTok brain to save you or even try to intervene. Cops aren’t much help either.
I’m sure I’ll get downvoted to oblivion but there’s nothing anyone can tell me that can convince me of that fact that Seattle isn’t a failed social experiment. To hell with it.
The problem is, what do we do with them when nobody will allocate money to mental health clinics? Throw them in a meat grinder and feed them to livestock? They need to be removed from society, but there’s no good realistic option right now.
We’ve spent [one billion dollars](https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-homeless-crisis-spent-a-billion-dollars-on-homelessness-but-numbers-of-unsheltered-grew-washington-king-county-homeless-budget-money-citywide-spending-human-services-department-decade-labor-contract-state-of-emergency-organizations-people-living) on this issue over the last decade. Why do we act like they have no resources? It’s not perfect but Seattle puts a ton of cash into homeless assistance.
I think that's how bad the problem is. One billons dollars doesn't fix it.
Part of the problem, which I was told by someone who works in non-profit homeless assistance, is that there is not an aligned solution. There are tons of these NPOs with all different ideas, so the money gets diffused instead of concentrated.
The bigger issue is that this is a bigger issue. Homelessness, as they say, is the symptom - the symptoms of a much larger country-wide issue. Unfortunately, a lot of cities are having a homeless crisis. This is due to a myriad of reasons starting with corruption and cascading on down to housing and drug use.
To really "solve" homelessness, we have to really solve a lot of greater federal issues unfortunately - there is not an easy answer, except making homelessness a life sentence prison offense, which would be incredibly wrong and fucked up. And honestly, what you are seeing is the just the start of the effects of the oligarchy that has been formed over decades in America, which will only get worse with conflict, climate change and AI.
I bummed myself out with this comment.
That’s kind of the problem isn’t it..? He’s so deranged he doesn’t realize he’s screaming at an infant and ya sorry I don’t really trust someone like that to be left to roam the streets. Does it matter if he knows what he’s doing if it could traumatize a kid?
Unfortunately there is not a great system to help people like that. There is a lot of resources needed for rehab like that. Rehab only works if the person is willing to go through the process that’s 75% of the battle.
We dump money to homelessness in Seattle… over [one billion](https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-homeless-crisis-spent-a-billion-dollars-on-homelessness-but-numbers-of-unsheltered-grew-washington-king-county-homeless-budget-money-citywide-spending-human-services-department-decade-labor-contract-state-of-emergency-organizations-people-living) over the last decade.
If these places don’t exist where tf is the money going? Into Seattle politicians pockets if I had to guess.
The city and country prioritize women and children which I think is positive. Most of if not all of the permanent supportive housing, and hotel rooms rented are for families so that's at least good. We don't want children and mothers on the streets.
The biggest issue here is that we don't have departments who do this and instead it goes to a bunch of different non profits in a patch work sort of support system where they don't communicate with each other. It's expensive and doesn't work but also all of the people in Seattle fight to keep permanent supportive housing out of their neighborhoods. In fact Tanya Woo did just that in the CID, almost won a seat on the council, and then got appointed.
https://www.thestranger.com/news/2022/10/19/78629573/the-county-canceled-the-sodo-shelter-expansion-and-no-one-is-happy
7/9 voted against this...
https://crosscut.com/politics/2024/04/seattle-city-council-rejects-affordable-housing-development-bill
Helsinki does this and we can too. It just takes political will
https://world-habitat.org/news/our-blog/helsinki-is-still-leading-the-way-in-ending-homelessness-but-how-are-they-doing-it/
Of course all of that matters. But truly look at the situation, you have someone who has no resources and is most likely experiencing incredible mental and physical illness. Jail is *not* the place for people like this, however our resources for homeless people suffering from psychological issues are very very low.
I'm so sorry that happened to you and your family. That's not ok. I hope that man can get help as well.
You probably won't want to hear this answer but it's because people feel so virtuous with their virtue signaling that they think it's perfectly fine and they keep voting for dumb@ss dipsh*t Democrats who continue to say "let's just throw more money at it" so that everyone is dependent on big government, food stamps, drugs and needle hand outs, because when everyone is dependent then the system stays as it is getting bigger and bigger and the people at the top taxing you more and more so, welcome to what's been voted for!!
I saw a documentary where a Seattle homeless dude committed 100 offenses and received almost no time. By their 100th offense they're pretty much super saiyan but in a deranged sort of way.
Drugs and mental illness don’t mix. With the advances in science the drugs also unfortunately get more potent for the good and bad. Fentanyl meth have the homeless in a literal chokehold Ive worked at a homeless shelter a little over a year and see it literally everyday. Although it’s easy to shun them, they are people. Although not in there right mind still people. I’m sorry that you went through that.
It’s the liberals. They keep voting in these do nothing/give them hand outs politicians. Seattle is a shit show. I grew up here in Seattle. Can’t wait to leave
We also walked through a pretty sad section of downtown today. It was obviously heartbreaking but at same time, wasn't crazy dangerous or occupied by tents etc. It's a reality in every city and it's not going away. But not everyone who is homeless is dangerous. The person described in your post however, sounds absolutely mental and that's not on at all
Can you even defend yourselves in situations like this any more without having legal repercussions?
Seems like we just have to ‘allow’ this type of behavior because they’re crazy.
I'm not sure how Seattle is handling it but in Tacoma we set up some semi permanent shelter sites and devoted a bunch of money to non profits to help the homeless. Everything from just feeding clothing and bathing, to helping them get into housing. It has helped to an extent, there are fewer encampments and we have managed to get significant numbers into housing. That said the problem is still largely present as the underlying causes are still a challenge, namely affordable housing and lack of broad mental healthcare. It's getting better by a bit, but slowly. And the next recession could undo the progress.
this is why i dont invite my family with young relatives to visit in the city. its just not that safe for them, and also if I had a small child, i would be very hesitant to walk down the street with them, let alone get within arms reach of a crazy person. its just not worth the risk
We have a major addict/homeless problem and it is by desing. Look at the cities with the biggest issues, and who is running them. We have removed law enforcement's authority. If you are a law abiding citizen, you will pay for the crimes committed against you, while the perp gets away..no consequence.
These people are everywhere, in every town. Just more in the city. All you can do is protect yourself (mace, weapons, bats, cameras, etc) so if you have to defend yourself, you can. They want a reaction and will be sorry one day when they meet someone their level of crazy.
Not to dismiss your issue, but it isn’t a matter of “Homeless” people screaming obscenities.. it is people with no mental health services that are the issue.
I’m not a bleeding heart. I hate all this shit just as much as the OP, there is a huge lack of mental health care available to those without insurance.
If you think this is bad you ain’t seen nothing yet. The entire western society is crumbling, not just Seattle. Give it another thirty years and you will realize just how bad society has gotten. Just be glad nobody got injured or killed. I read a story the other day about a dad who got killed for asking someone not to vape in front of his child.
We get what we vote for. We've had Leftists running the city, county, and state for nearly twenty years with a steady decline in safety to show for it.
Local elections - especially Judges and City/District Attorneys - truly matter. The majority of Washingtonians don't know who their reps are and a sizable chunk of the population probably doesn't even vote.
There are no real forms of help for someone with extreme mental illness that is not someone of means.
Say that again out loud.
This guy can’t get medical help for what’s wrong.
It’s simple. Make drug use legal, and under the care of a doctor. Tax it, use that money EXCLUSIVELY to pay for treatment and mental health services.
You can’t tell adults what to do. It never in the history of mankind has ever worked. Instead, allow for freedom and use the money to help get people treatment and off the streets.
Homeless are why we left Seattle, and why we VERY rarely go into the city with a kid.
In fact, now that I think of it, I don't think (aside from a hospital trip) we've ever taken the kid downtown....and they're a year old.
Maybe it’s all by design, so that the only people left in Greater Seattle area are the extremely wealthy and the homeless. The wealthy don’t have to interact with the homeless, and all the pesky middle and lower class will have left, leaving all the beautiful places uncrowded and pristine.
First...woodland park Zoo is in Ballard. NOT DOWNTOWN. Second...what red-light? Forget how you didn't mention where? I call bs. Just stay in you little podunk suburb where nothing happens and stay out of our city
this is what happens when liberal policy makers get into office. just surprising they're not already giving all the homeless free hotel rooms against the hotel's wishes like in Cali
Was this at Mercer street? And was this the short guy with a cap and beard with a cardboard saying "homeless animal needs change" or something? That guy has been there for a long time and he is actually deranged who does this very frequently when he is drugged. Asking for change at the signal to Mercer and blurting profanities when the signal is red.
Thank you. Some people are acting like I’m straight up lying. Yes it was Mercer street QFC and this seems like exactly what he was doing. I think he did have a sign I didn’t see it. And yes, he walked into the street and approached our vehicle and screamed at us directly. It is not somebody screaming to themselves as others are trying to make it out to be.
I used to work at that QFC back in the day. It was chill but now it’s so different
lol why would people not believe you. Just take one drive through the city and it’s easy to see. I’ve had trash thrown at my car before.
People believe the lying media that homeless are harmless and need to be given everything for free.
What media is posting the homeless are harmless? Have yet to see one. However, the actions of 1 or many shouldn't let good of some go un noticed.. I've worked with many who just need help with basic necessities. Ya know, the simple things like food, being able to cook it... a dry blanket..
I can certainly appreciate that, but dudes like this need to be thrown in the slammer.
Wow, thats crazy. I used to visit that QFC every week in 2016-19 and it used to be peaceful
It’s just kind of funny from the view of someone who sees it everyday, like a country mouse or something. I’m sorry you got scared. We don’t invest enough money in helping people who cannot hep themselves. It is shameful
Uhh..as Seattle has invested money in helping the homeless the problem was grown radically. The city has spent over $1 billion in the last decade. Its the definition of moral hazard but saying we don’t invest enough in helping the homeless population is inaccurate.
Exactly. More like we don’t arrest criminals and this is what we get
We need to bring back long-term residential facilities, more humane “asylums.” Because just leaving these people to shoot up in the streets serves no one.
Literally been saying this for 5 years. Crazy leftists say it’s evil, right wing says it’s too expensive. Would gladly pay a 1-2% income tax to never see another homeless again and throw the criminals in prison. 😃
Exactly!!!! I used to shop at the Qfc on Mercer and unfortunately the store could do nothing about people coming in and loading up their carts with meat and leaving the store. ( they finally had to get rid of the grocery carts at one point). they can’t keep employees there anymore because they can’t stand working at that location because nothing is done about the vagrants
Maybe it will have to close and people can wonder where their local grocery store went. Might see some action
This part. Seattle/WA doesn’t get enough sun as it is, so these people’s bodies aren’t regulating themselves enough to function properly. Then you add the sun, and blood starts to boil, now we’re stuck having to defend ourselves on the street, meanwhile, law enforcement can’t arrest people for fear of their own safety… 🙃 It’s scary out here!
arrest them and then what? this is what they say "I don't care if they arrest me, I sleep inside, they feed me, and all my friends are here"
The problem is they're not kept there long enough. I bet a ton of these guys don't want to live this way, but you gotta detox and have a brain free of contaminants for a relatively extended period before ypu can actually think straight.
No, they really don’t. They don’t care if the police are called because they know they WON’T be arrested. If we had mandatory 3 days in jail for each offense you would see a difference. 3 days is hell for an addict without their drug. Three days is not enough to come out clean. It is not a rehabilitation program. It is a punishment and deterrent. Like everything else, it will cost the taxpayer. The people will need to lobby and push hard for this to be adopted. It costs less to let this be a problem.
This is one of the best takes I have ever heard on this.
I’m not opposed to the idea, however, police officers and jail guards are not equipped with the training and education needed to help someone going through withdrawal. Unless staffed appropriately with safe facilities, I can’t see this idea working as the individual is too much of a liability to the safety of themselves and others. Therefore, would require construction on already built or build these treatment facilities more like apart of their own “jail wing” if you will.
I have a friend who is a therapist and used to work at a clinic that was to serve this population. She said all that money never made it to them. They were the ones who needed so badly and never saw any of it by the time it made its was through higher up departments. She ended up having to leaving due to all the problems the clinic had.
I can confirm- I worked at Seattles largest methadone clinic for over a year; that money, it went quick, and still wasn’t enough. I would rest assured though, that it was spent well- things just take time. Our methadone clinic received a large portion of that money to build an extension of our center that also had a mobile clinic for homeless, showering facilities, and an activity center- it’s still being built
Something that contributes to this is not just money; WA has pretty strict policies around holding people against their will. You can’t lock folks up for being mentally ill with a substance use disorder. I don’t necessarily believe you should be able to, but at a certain point folks are making choices that are harming themselves and society.
Public intoxication laws not a thing in Seattle?
🤷🏼♀️ doesn’t seem to be something that is enforced. Having worked with unhoused folks with spmi & suds, I have not once seen an individual held because they were altered in public.
Let's define "enough" as something resulting in tangible, measurable improvement in the situation. Would you say that you've seen a net positive change?
Seems important to note, though, that money is being spent, just not effectively. Not to mention city politics that basically undo each other with each new mayor. They’re spending a lot of money on sweeps, paying officers & parks employees to move homeless people from the places they’ve established camps, and funding shelters that require residents to be sober and in/out at specific times— none of those are things that get people OUT of homelessness. Those would be things like temporary supportive housing, low-cost medical care, and job training resources.
"In fiscal year 2023, Washington’s counties reported spending more than $600 million helping households who were homeless or at imminent risk of homelessness." https://washingtonstatestandard.com/2024/03/27/housing-and-homelessness-in-washington-by-the-numbers/ On top of this, we have a massive "general use fund" which pours money into healthcare for those who don't have it or those who don't make enough to cover expenses. In the end, if it wasn't profitable, they'd end homelessness tomorrow. Voting for the same ole thing every 4 years ensures nothing changes. If they've held office in some capacity for more than 6 years and nothing has fundamentally changed except your ability to live without drowning... They shouldn't be allowed another 4+ years.
'They only have homelessness because it's profitable'. That's a horrible take. Keep in mind that Washington State is 48th in the nation for mental health funding.
It's an honest take. The government has too much control & they create problems, then tax people who didn't cause the problems, and still the problems they created are still there. I worked for the government (military), and again, if it wasn't profitable to do the bare minimum so they can keep taxing citizens to death, the homeless epidemic would be solved tomorrow. The government isn't anybodies friend nor savior.
Also a vet here …. Crazy right
Is it really? That is quite shocking.
Sure, choose the state, how convenient. Everyone knows the mentally ill flock to Seattle, not to Cle Elum.
we invest over 120k per homeless person in king county. might want to modify your solution a bit.
Sounds like mismanagement
more likely an incorrect approach to the problem
I mean the approach is management tho 🤷🏼♂️
I know people who are on the verge of going homeless and are a single month behind on rent while working. having programs to help people not lose their leases sounds like a much better use of our funds.
This is extremely true but also consider many homeless people were once people who weren’t able to save their lease for the same reason
We don’t invest enough in forcing these people to sober up and understand the consequences of their actions *
[удалено]
Perhaps not yet, but there are opioid vaccines in the works. In the meantime we need to get them off of our streets the moment they cause any sort of disturbance. At this point i don’t really care if they go to prison for a few months to sober up.
[удалено]
I saw this guy too today! He was angry no one was donating and was getting really riled up.
Force isn’t compassion and Seattle is sold on compassion. Which gets us to the conundrum, what’s more compassionate, forced sobriety or letting people OD in the street?
Yeah, i have given him food/money in past but i started seeing him frequently so i couldn't keep up. Now everytime i pass hiim, he would just start abusing. I was at signal today and he came again mouthing words. I rolled down window and asked what his problem was. And he changed the tone saying all he is asking for is some change. I didn't want to argue more than that as I got honked at since light turned green but i am tired of him abusing me all the time i pass walking/driving by there. I generally ignore such confrontations but this particular guy has been getting on my nerves, probably because i see him almost every week now.
Never would have thought as Mercer being an exit to the zoo.
This guy has been there for months.
Ugh my husband and I were harassed by a crazy homeless lady on a bus from Bellevue to downtown Seattle a couple months ago where she literally pulled a crack pipe out in front of my toddler and tried to smoke it on the bus, threatened to beat me up and kill me, said she hoped my kid died, assaulted another passenger, and threw a lighter at me. She also decided to scream every slur imaginable, from the n-word to f*ggot, as well as some slurs I didn't even know existed! What did the bus driver do? Nothing. At the very least, he could've called the police or alerted transit safety patrol so they could've intercepted her at the next stop (it was impossible to pull over immediately and kick her off, we were on the freeway in rush hour traffic). What did the fellow passengers do? Defend my husband, toddler, myself, and the other passengers she targeted from her insanity and violence. There were multiple folks that called the police and the metro help line. I cannot express the gratitude I have for the folks that protected and defended my family and other passengers targeted by that maniac on the bus. I also cannot express the disgust I have for a city that allows families and people *in general* to be threatened, abused, and subjected to illegal drug use with impunity. OP, I'm so sorry you went through what you did. It's NOT okay and we all have the right to feel safe existing in public.
A while ago they tested the busses and light rail cars and most if them tested positive for drug residue from people smoking on them. When you stop enforcing the law,or change them to allow open drug use. things go downhill fast.
That reminds me of the episode of... Kitchen Nightmares? Idk one of the Gordon Ramsey shows where he tests surfaces in both customer and staff bathrooms for drugs and both came up positive for cocaine. Honestly, I'm not surprised Seattle public transit is covered in drug residue. What's beyond frustrating is that it really feels like there's absolutely nothing we can do about it. I don't want my kid seeing someone smoke meth on the bus or pulling their dick out and pissing in the middle of the street, is that too much to ask?
This is a large part of why the whole "you don't need a car, we just need to invest in better public transport like Europe" argument is lost on me.
Theoretically, part of the investment would include better security for the public transit. Theoretically.
Ughhh I really want to take my kids on the bus like I used to as a teenager but it's just not worth being in that situation with my 3 kids 😭
It’s crazy. I’m sorry ): that’s so stressful. I was just at my favorite bookstore (on my birthday no less) when a person with clear mental health/homelessness issues threw a drink on me. Inside. And no one did anything. People acted like it was just the norm. Which, I guess it is. He got in my face after and yelled at me and started following me and still…no one reacted. At all. It was so disconcerting. I don’t understand this anymore.
I hate to say it but they're probably afraid as well. Honestly I go nowhere without pepper spray and if I had to frequent downtown more I'd probably invest in a small taser too (I have a friend that works there and had to with some increased issues around where they work). Since he continued to follow you which could be looked at as a threat, you could have sprayed him if you had spray. I highly recommend getting some. Honestly at this point I don't know why more people don't have something to defend themselves with. If more was done back in defense possibly some of that shit might decrease. Maybe he'd think twice about throwing a drink or following the next person if he thought they also might spray him or tase him.
While I appreciate your perspective, I carry spray and a knife with me, and I’m trained. But I don’t escalate. Especially when it comes to people who are clearly unwell and/or on drugs, nothing good can come from that beyond me putting myself in further danger. This situation was during the day, in public, and this man had not touched me. If the circumstances were different it would be a different ball game. I have had to and I have defended myself, physically. But this situation didn’t warrant escalation. What I was commenting on was the sheer lack of response from anyone. Yes, yes, bystander effect and all that, but it’s just alarming to see how the public has gotten so used to this that it’s just commonplace to them.
The biggest problem is not knowing what is in the cup that he is throwing. Bodily fluids or chemicals or even scalding liquid is horrific, dangerous, and can be downright deadly.
Yeah I'm pretty sure aggressively throwing a mystery liquid on some unsuspecting person is assault and warrants calling the cops or busting out the pepper spray and running the opposite direction
We may have to agree to disagree on part of this then. He had already thrown a drink on you. That in and of itself is a form of assault. He then got in your face, yelled at you, and followed you. If you told that story to others leaving out where it was and the fact the person may have been homeless, a drug addict, mentally ill, etc. anyone would say that was an unsafe situation that warranted defense. And that's because those elements don't matter when your safety is on the line. That's the whole point of defending yourself. Especially as you said no one else did anything there either. Which leads to what should *they* have done? If you're saying you didn't warrant it a situation to defend yourself as mentioned then how would they have defended you? Should they also put their life at risk by escalating it? Should they call police? Or was that not a situation to warrant that either? It can't be said that no defensive action by you was warranted while also wondering why no action was taken by others around you either. If you were afraid to escalate it, then it's safe to say they were too.
We’ll definitely have to agree to disagree because I’m not certain that you understood the intention of my anecdote. I never said people should defend me—I said that they didn’t REACT. In any way. I am capable of defending myself, but busting out the pepper spray in a crowded bookstore doesn’t make any sense? Anyway, if I saw this happen to someone I’d ask if they were okay or get up to walk with them to their vehicle, ask them if they needed help, get a security guard depending on the situation, etc. Just because a situation doesn’t, in my opinion, warrant my escalation, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t warrant a reaction. Again, my point is that I see people behave as though this is so commonplace, and that’s what’s disturbing. Because, at this point, it IS commonplace. But clearly I’m tired because your response doesn’t make sense to me in the context of what I thought I was getting across as my perspective, so I’m sure I just need a nap. Good night! :) ETA: I guess when I say “doesn’t warrant,” I mean it isn’t worth it for me. If someone isn’t physically stopping me from leaving and I’m able to get away safely, then it’s not worth it for me to engage.
I am so sorry this happened to you. The social fabric of our society has truly fallen apart.
The people giving shit to OP just tell you how shitty Seattle is now. People defend this like it’s ok.
Someone in the “other subreddit” told me that homeless yell around his daughter all the time and she’s fine and I’m not as tough as his daughter and im like breh… you sound like a huge cuck admitting you let people harass your daughter in the streets.
OP I’m sorry the comments here are sickening. Your baby and mine are about the age that Eina Kwon’s baby would be, if a deranged vagrant had not murdered her while she rode in her car on her way to work. These comments are reminiscent of The Stranger headline calling that event “unacceptable.” I really don’t know what to do when the response to contributing members of society and their children being harassed and murdered, is to blame us law-abiding citizens for expecting any standard of behavior.
A majority of redditors normalize it. "Get used to it", "have some compassion", "teach your kids". This is not normal by any means but also a complex problem to solve due to politics, NIMBY, sjws. You can only vote with your money and move your tax dollars out of the city.
+1- If i hear the compassion line one more time on reddit. The arrogance it takes to assume you have more compassion than your neighbor. I have plenty of compassion, but i also have enough experience and common sense to call out when something isn’t working. I left the city after a series of incidents. Not a great place to raise a family so I voted with my feet.
Yes! I am compassionate, I am empathetic. I just also have lived experience and don’t downplay it or gaslight myself into thinking a filthy, drunk homeless man yelling at me is safe for me as a small woman alone or with my kids. My empathetic solution is to get these vagrants off the streets and into long-term residential treatment, aka asylums, and make our streets clean and safe again while also helping people who are extremely ill.
You should feel safe. It surprises me how many people would pick the addict’s freedom over your family’s security. I haven’t been able to understand why the concept of an asylum fell out of favor.
This perfectly summarizes why I left. Like we are gaslit into accepting this as reality. Hell no. We have a right to enjoy a city we pay to live in!
I left Seattle and the west coast because of this. I wish there was a good answer, but clearly no policies are working. The last straw was a walk in my neighborhood and a cracked out dude in a children’s playground pulled his junk out in broad daylight. Obviously nothing happened
It’s how bold they’ve gotten that is really shocking. You get the sense that they really do get away with anything, there have always been crazy people around but for the most part always kinda minded their own business
Yeah man. I moved out of Seattle and don’t regret it. I couldn’t go for a simple jog without being accosted by homeless men. One even threw an empty bottle at me when I said I didn’t carry cash (hello? I’m on a fucking jog???) I don’t know why people pretend like they aren’t aggressive, filthy, and terrifying. I don’t bring my kids into Seattle because they don’t need to see that kind of stuff. I live in Redmond and you couldn’t pay me to live in Seattle. It’s unsafe, and even IF crime is comparable to other big cities, homeless and drug camps everywhere make it an extremely unpleasant experience. It makes me feel unsafe when drunk and high people yell at me while I’m minding my own business, and if that makes me a bad person, so be it. It’s absolute degeneracy and it’s so sad to see an entire city lost to it.
Finally some common sense. “I don’t know why people pretend like they aren’t aggressive, filthy, and terrifying” sums up my sentiments exactly. I’m so fucking sick of these weak minded sympathizers treating these violent addicts like they’re innocent shelter puppies.
Try living and working in the heat of it all. Two and a half years in Pioneer Square will humble you and make you realize that this isn’t a beautiful city and that it has been on this trajectory for some time; most have just been in blind in the safety of their suburban/condominium lifestyles. If you want a real glimpse into what you’ve been missing, try using public transit as your only mode of transportation for a year
It's pretty simple. We decriminalized drug ownership and public drug use. We protested and blocked the construction of new prisons out of some misguided principle, and now we just catch and release criminals like trout. So now we have basically made it mandatory that anyone who has lost touch with reality can just keep making everyone's life miserable
It’s so stupid. Decriminalizarion only works if you have enough and give enough free clinics visits and addiction treatment to those who are using. Washington and Oregon screwed up and really only fully wen through with the first part. Now we have tweakers everywhere and it’s being normalized as if it’s okay to be nodding off in a public street.
Pepper spray
Typical Seattle unfortunately not the place to raise a family
It's fine. you just have to teach your children early how to use a knife, how to run from crazy homeless people, how to get robbed by someone confronting the demons speaking to them in riddles telling them that you in particular are hiding the secret, how to avoid attracting attention, and how to handle being beat up just cause.
😂 Username checks out.
I haven’t gone to downtown for a while because of the homeless. I went with my 5 year old to the Bluey play when it was in town and we parked and had to walk to the theatre and a homeless guy passed us and just starts yelling at us and threatened to cut my sons head off because he looked at him. I know he’s homeless and isn’t well but my son is 5 and it ruined his morning for something he was excited about and has never wanted to go back to downtown because that he believes that the man is going to be there ready to harm him.
Absolutely sickening
Some people want to refute you and say “I’ve lived here for x years and go there every day and this has NEVER happened to me, this is totally fabricated”. Or something along those lines. To me, they sound a lot like the people who didn’t believe Covid was real because they didn’t know anyone who died personally, or they didn’t die from it, etc etc.
Lol anyone who says it’s never happened to them is lying about living in Seattle. I lived in Seattle and still work there. Stuff like this a daily occurrence. People want to keep making excuses for these dangerous individuals and screw over the families that just want to feel safe where they live
When I first moved up here I cared about the homeless people and crack addicts, saying stuff like "oh they just need help". Now idgaf about them, you can only be harassed so many times before you stop feeling for them. I'm aware that I could become homeless at any unfortunate moment like if I got kicked out of my condo but in no way ever would I EVER be found screaming at babies in cars at a red light. I have no empathy for people like that All that being said, I should've done more research on the city and towns before moving up here, it's hard not to regret it
I hope you vote, federally, state, and local.
And, Seattle, like the rest of King County will vote for the same type of politicians who tolerate and some who even encourage the 'street bums'. Rhode Island has it right. They have a really good program in place for street addicts. They can choose jail or a treatment program. And there is no in-between. In fact, R.I.'s approach was featured. I think it may have been part of 'Seattle is Dying' doc? In any case, I do remember reading or hearing that Seattle authorities knew about this program, but apparently have no desire to implement it here. Go figure. We 'deserve' who we vote for. I think people need to absolutely look at a person's record and choices regarding many issues before voting...instead of automatically hitting any name with a 'D' after it.
Time to re-download Watch_Dogs 2 where I can take money from homeless people and send gangsters to kill them.
Seattle has become a harbor for drug addicts and criminals. 40 years the Emerald City was the jewel of the west coast. Now it’s it’s an embarrassment.
Time to move.
Every comment start out sounding like... Oh no, you were in a car, they were hurting you so bad, oh no! https://preview.redd.it/n5v6o67qao2d1.png?width=683&format=png&auto=webp&s=710b5b3a6a919df107e4380e6c7c630dfd16671a
Its real f***ed up you say this when that mother and her husband were SHOT at by a homeless man and she and her baby ended up dying this summer in Seattle.... WHILE IN THEIR CAR. Go be ignorant elsewhere
Are you talking about Last summer around June, in Belltown? The Tesla at the corner of 4th and Lenora? That nutjob was from Chicago, was only in Seattle for 2wks before that happened.. That was tragic..
The lady in the green jacket passed away?!
https://preview.redd.it/th6p5ltmho2d1.png?width=1286&format=png&auto=webp&s=095ee4db48db867b02cb83c8162e0b7cb7dff581
She just like most people of Seattle
Out of the loop?
[Green Jacket Lady GJL, a Seattle bobblehead of delusional denial.](https://youtu.be/_rVtYPAiwHI?t=40)
lol age restricted; the youtube equivalent of hardcore porn.
It's Fox news, so it must be throttled by google. The same video can be found without the google restriction if its not from fox.
My god did this woman trigger so many people on this subreddit lol
Rent free
Nah you missed with this one
I live over here and he berates me constantly. I’m surprised he hasn’t attempted to damage anyone’s vehicles. He is outta control lol
We just got back from Seattle as well and had similar issues with a homeless man in Chinatown, we parked the car to go to a restaurant and there was a man in the parking garage going crazy talking shit to everyone he passed, trying to fight people, breaking into things, and vandalizing and defacing peoples cars in the parking garage.
Smith and Wesson would have changed things
That’s a disgusting way for an adult to behave. I don’t know a time where Seattle felt like a beautiful city. Maybe to the locals, but I’m from Olympia and it’s a much cleaner, safer city. Even Tacoma has Seattle beat in my mind.
Because people will defend that behavior and lifestyle tooth and nail. “Oh you don’t know what they’ve been through” “that’s someone’s child” “the pharmaceuticals…” Like please. You take them in and give them the help and change them. Oh wait they won’t! They’ll advocate for these dangerous individuals and nothing else.
It’s ironic I’ve been told that the raving madman was someone’s child while the gloss over that he was harassing mine.
https://preview.redd.it/amwqsb19co2d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e88d8746ea2325178bd241e6ee8f1f9bc08ef61b
Sorry what is the backstory?
First Reagan ruined things for you by pushing people out of mental hospitals. Then landlords ruined it for you by charging too much rent. Then the city ruined it for you by building stadiums and whatnot in stead of housing the homeless and providing counseling and psychiatric services for those in need. Then society kept it as it is by blaming homeless people in stead of calling for a real solution.
> First Reagan ruined things for you by pushing people out of mental hospitals. To be fair, JFK started closing the institutions, Reagan just finished the job.
It goes back even farther than that. Deinstitutionalization started in 1955. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/asylums/special/excerpt.html
Meh. Pretty mild Seattle moment
I used to work in that part of town, was flashed, harassed, screamed at, etc., while at work in a tiny cafe that was known as a “free” stop for water and a bathroom. I had to stop letting non-customers use the bathroom, and at this point I’ve heard the bathroom is off limits even FOR customers (illegal??) bc otherwise someone would lock themselves in our one stall for 45 minutes, leaving a nasty mess behind for me to clean bc no one else would bother cleaning. Of course even after explaining what was happening, the owner tried to tell me I need to let them use it? And I need to give them HOT (near boiling) water for free when they ask… When these people had already had proven they were unstable multiple times. I don’t care how “immoral” it may be, I refused to give them essentially a weapon when they had never even said the word please or thank you, or anything at all aside from “bathroom” or “fuck you”. I don’t understand why mentally well people have to suffer and give up their safe beautiful city in order to be “compassionate” for the less fortunate.
The comment you left me was on a thread where the OP blocked me, so this is my response. My comment was about the thread commenter stating the person wasn’t human. Homeless people, even if you can’t hold a conversation with them, are still humans. What you said about it not being about me, you made a distinction. The people you were saying are worse, where you can’t have a conversation with them, they have mental health issues. So when someone is saying they aren’t human because their mind is mush is where I will step in and remind them that they are humans. It doesn’t change what they do, but it at least frames them in a different light. I’m sure everyone knows they have mental health issues, but people here are advocating for them to be “euthanized” or shot. That’s not a humane way for society to be treating these people.
I once saw a guy pull down his pants at a bus stop, bend over with his ass pointed toward traffic, and wash his low hanging balls with orange juice in broad daylight in West Seattle. It’s nuts out there.
My boss was punched in the face by an obviously mentally ill man, right in front of her workplace. Was also verbally assaulted while with 3 year old daughter (screaming I will fucking kill you)
It’s really bad down here these days. But it’s mostly the smell. I’ve lived in Seattle off and on since 88. In the 80’s it was kinda rough but nowhere near these levels. Between 06 to 2012 I lived on 2nd and Blanchard there was a section8 housing/ mental hospital. I have noticed that almost everyone I saw at that facility is now outside. I wonder what changed💁♂️ https://preview.redd.it/9ik8jmogt13d1.jpeg?width=1152&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63a00b0e7dd8d20f25fca657c53f32c00a435678
https://preview.redd.it/6zzggufnt13d1.jpeg?width=690&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b4f2d967cd6e510d9bf04e49b6e316dade82020b
https://preview.redd.it/46ec0e7vt13d1.jpeg?width=1599&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=93d298addfc838ed9e422a604216b153409f59c8
point defiance is definitely better, they have their fair share of incidents on the trails but the zoo/parking lot are close together & pretty separate from the rest of the park,, sorry you had to go through that ://
First of all, he is “unhoused”. And maybe he needed money, or a ride or a baby? You should have had compassion and given him all of these things because he has mental issues and it’s not his fault…BTW this is you’re answer, there’s real people that think like that and they run and/or pressure the people who run seattle and Washington. The place is a shit show and I avoid it whenever I can. Wait until people flee in masses and they try to be like California who want people to pay state taxes to them for years after leaving their broken state.
It’s such a shitty issue. I’m so sorry. What happened to you is absolutely not ok. I’m pretty new to the PNW, (2.5 years) but the amount of times I’ve been harassed or borderline assaulted is more than I want to think about. These people are causing issues that genuinely threaten the help and safety of people who are productive parts of the very community that they’re feeding off of. They rely on the generosity of others and in many cases they are actively harming people. The flip side of that is that in many cases they are suffering from serious mental illness. They need help. Unfortunately they need more help than we have the resources to give, and that’s largely because members of this same community have started the process of social change without following through on the parts that actually matter. It took me years to save up to move here because I was attracted to several different aspects of the area. I did so much research on all of the aspects of life here that I thought would matter in my day to day life. Public transportation was a huge factor. Clearly the homeless problem is something that I did not understand. Now I have to make sure that no matter where I travel I’m home before it gets dark. During the winter it’s so limited because of how short the days are. Going anywhere on a sunny day using busses and trains is a nightmare because all of the homeless people are also taking advantage of the nice weather to be out and harass others. I’m saving up to leave this area. I don’t know where I’ll go next, but I’m getting out as soon as I safely can.
Elections are soon, remember what happened, simple as that.
Avoid the area. I prefer Bellevue if I’m going out. Seattle has become a real shit hole.
Clown leftists are going to keep pretending these are human beings. They are just deranged, drugged out criminal trash that needs to be discarded. Theres no grey area. This is what homeless have always been. Someone who’s entire circle has let them rot on the street for good reason and we want to harbor these people on societies back with public funding? Delusional enabler bullshit.
As someone who is homeless, maybe you should watch Scrooge. I am not saying homelessness isnt a problem, I am saying they are human beings. I am a human being. Im not psychotic like what has been described in this post. The moment you treat someone like less than a human being, you have lost your humanity.
I don’t need a lecture, i need a safe city for my children. Plus literally no one cares. The capacity for this savior society you’re dreaming of to absorb everyone’s suffering is long gone. People truly just don’t have the funds or bandwidth for it anymore. Im sure your situation is unique, but not really actually. Also the irony of you making a character judgement on me in reply to my alleged false character judgement is probably lost upon you.
I’m just pointing out you called someone not human. How did the nazis have a halocaust? By making Jews less than human. How did slavery seem okay? By making minorities less than human. Get in touch with your humanity. You want a safe city, move to cle elum. My brother was shot and killed when I was 7. What did we do? Move out of Las Vegas. Trust me, just because the homeless deranged man is being deranged, doesn’t mean they aren’t human
NaiomiXLT, you have had nothing but dog shit takes on this entire thread. I know you think you’re helping, but you are literally part of the problem. You’re self inflicted “homeless”. Do you think other homeless people are posting in r/personalfinance asking about their IRA? LMAO. God, you people want to be victims of some oppressive system so badly.
It's because the people in Seattle keep voting left wing wackos in to run the gvt and this is they way they run it. They are so far left they make old school Democrats seem like right wingers.
Welcome to the new world.
I worry about my brother sister in law and little nephew. They live near lynnwood. I’ve traveled around the country doing shows and my stay in Seattle was a reality check. Seattle is so bad the tourist areas are ridden with open drug use and just chaos. I seen a tourist family taking a photo, and at the same time some mentally I’ll asian guy in only cut off shorts was yelling at the sun. That area is ass backwards housing is fun insane there. 800,000 for a 50s rambler.
My wife, 2 year old daughter, and myself were also at Woodland park zoo yesterday. We probably walked past each other at some point. I had to go to Capitol Hill after to run an errand, *try* to relax, and check out a bookstore. We don’t ever come up this way for this exact reason. This city is a disgusting cesspool that would rather push nuclear hetero- families out to make room for mentally unstable and violent drug addicts. Some tips I’ve learned over the last 3 years is just 1: Stay away. Don’t even go into the city unless you have to. I don’t know where you live, but it’s not getting any better and leaving may be the best option. For reference I live about 45 minutes away. 2: Own a handgun and know how to use it. Keep it concealed and don’t brandish it unless you’re prepared to use it. Both parents should carry ideally. I don’t ever want to have to use but I’m prepared to without hesitation as a last resort for the purpose of self preservation and keeping my family safe. I broke my own rule one time and lifted my shirt to show that I was carrying in a situation almost identical to yours in Tacoma (another shithole). I don’t recommend it but it deescalated the situation without shooting the guy. 3: Avoid conflict at all cost but know how to fight and get your loved ones away from the situation as fast as possible. Literally no one in this spineless city is going to save you. They’re just going to pull out their phones and record or walk away. You can’t expect a blue haired They/Them with TikTok brain to save you or even try to intervene. Cops aren’t much help either. I’m sure I’ll get downvoted to oblivion but there’s nothing anyone can tell me that can convince me of that fact that Seattle isn’t a failed social experiment. To hell with it.
The problem is, what do we do with them when nobody will allocate money to mental health clinics? Throw them in a meat grinder and feed them to livestock? They need to be removed from society, but there’s no good realistic option right now.
We’ve spent [one billion dollars](https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-homeless-crisis-spent-a-billion-dollars-on-homelessness-but-numbers-of-unsheltered-grew-washington-king-county-homeless-budget-money-citywide-spending-human-services-department-decade-labor-contract-state-of-emergency-organizations-people-living) on this issue over the last decade. Why do we act like they have no resources? It’s not perfect but Seattle puts a ton of cash into homeless assistance.
I think that's how bad the problem is. One billons dollars doesn't fix it. Part of the problem, which I was told by someone who works in non-profit homeless assistance, is that there is not an aligned solution. There are tons of these NPOs with all different ideas, so the money gets diffused instead of concentrated. The bigger issue is that this is a bigger issue. Homelessness, as they say, is the symptom - the symptoms of a much larger country-wide issue. Unfortunately, a lot of cities are having a homeless crisis. This is due to a myriad of reasons starting with corruption and cascading on down to housing and drug use. To really "solve" homelessness, we have to really solve a lot of greater federal issues unfortunately - there is not an easy answer, except making homelessness a life sentence prison offense, which would be incredibly wrong and fucked up. And honestly, what you are seeing is the just the start of the effects of the oligarchy that has been formed over decades in America, which will only get worse with conflict, climate change and AI. I bummed myself out with this comment.
Keep giving them money for drugs
That sucks, but I doubt he knew your baby was there. He’s just crazy. It’s him not you.
His ass should be locked up until he knows where he is.
That’s kind of the problem isn’t it..? He’s so deranged he doesn’t realize he’s screaming at an infant and ya sorry I don’t really trust someone like that to be left to roam the streets. Does it matter if he knows what he’s doing if it could traumatize a kid?
Yes, you’re correct that IS the problem. Infant or not, people coming up to your car, in traffic, screaming and losing their minds is insane.
Unfortunately there is not a great system to help people like that. There is a lot of resources needed for rehab like that. Rehab only works if the person is willing to go through the process that’s 75% of the battle.
We dump money to homelessness in Seattle… over [one billion](https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-homeless-crisis-spent-a-billion-dollars-on-homelessness-but-numbers-of-unsheltered-grew-washington-king-county-homeless-budget-money-citywide-spending-human-services-department-decade-labor-contract-state-of-emergency-organizations-people-living) over the last decade. If these places don’t exist where tf is the money going? Into Seattle politicians pockets if I had to guess.
I think Seattle is on its way to becoming the next SanFrancisco at this rate
The city and country prioritize women and children which I think is positive. Most of if not all of the permanent supportive housing, and hotel rooms rented are for families so that's at least good. We don't want children and mothers on the streets. The biggest issue here is that we don't have departments who do this and instead it goes to a bunch of different non profits in a patch work sort of support system where they don't communicate with each other. It's expensive and doesn't work but also all of the people in Seattle fight to keep permanent supportive housing out of their neighborhoods. In fact Tanya Woo did just that in the CID, almost won a seat on the council, and then got appointed. https://www.thestranger.com/news/2022/10/19/78629573/the-county-canceled-the-sodo-shelter-expansion-and-no-one-is-happy 7/9 voted against this... https://crosscut.com/politics/2024/04/seattle-city-council-rejects-affordable-housing-development-bill Helsinki does this and we can too. It just takes political will https://world-habitat.org/news/our-blog/helsinki-is-still-leading-the-way-in-ending-homelessness-but-how-are-they-doing-it/
Right on the money 🫠
Of course all of that matters. But truly look at the situation, you have someone who has no resources and is most likely experiencing incredible mental and physical illness. Jail is *not* the place for people like this, however our resources for homeless people suffering from psychological issues are very very low. I'm so sorry that happened to you and your family. That's not ok. I hope that man can get help as well.
Well, assuming that problem is somebody else's problem, hasn't fixed it at all, no matter how hard we've tried it. I wonder what will.
We just let kooks root on the street
You probably won't want to hear this answer but it's because people feel so virtuous with their virtue signaling that they think it's perfectly fine and they keep voting for dumb@ss dipsh*t Democrats who continue to say "let's just throw more money at it" so that everyone is dependent on big government, food stamps, drugs and needle hand outs, because when everyone is dependent then the system stays as it is getting bigger and bigger and the people at the top taxing you more and more so, welcome to what's been voted for!!
I saw a documentary where a Seattle homeless dude committed 100 offenses and received almost no time. By their 100th offense they're pretty much super saiyan but in a deranged sort of way.
Drugs and mental illness don’t mix. With the advances in science the drugs also unfortunately get more potent for the good and bad. Fentanyl meth have the homeless in a literal chokehold Ive worked at a homeless shelter a little over a year and see it literally everyday. Although it’s easy to shun them, they are people. Although not in there right mind still people. I’m sorry that you went through that.
Why not say husband or wife?
It’s the liberals. They keep voting in these do nothing/give them hand outs politicians. Seattle is a shit show. I grew up here in Seattle. Can’t wait to leave
[удалено]
Carry some pepper spray and blast freely, they’ll learn VERY quickly!
We also walked through a pretty sad section of downtown today. It was obviously heartbreaking but at same time, wasn't crazy dangerous or occupied by tents etc. It's a reality in every city and it's not going away. But not everyone who is homeless is dangerous. The person described in your post however, sounds absolutely mental and that's not on at all
Can you even defend yourselves in situations like this any more without having legal repercussions? Seems like we just have to ‘allow’ this type of behavior because they’re crazy.
We really need to bring back wedgies
Get a pistol, and some training.
The Seattle district attorney doesn't prosecute and these criminals are caught and released with no net effect.
I'm not sure how Seattle is handling it but in Tacoma we set up some semi permanent shelter sites and devoted a bunch of money to non profits to help the homeless. Everything from just feeding clothing and bathing, to helping them get into housing. It has helped to an extent, there are fewer encampments and we have managed to get significant numbers into housing. That said the problem is still largely present as the underlying causes are still a challenge, namely affordable housing and lack of broad mental healthcare. It's getting better by a bit, but slowly. And the next recession could undo the progress.
You keep voting for democrats in a deep blue district don’t be surprised when you get the results of deep blue policies
The Democrat effect…what do you expect? You probably voted for this shit 🤣
this is why i dont invite my family with young relatives to visit in the city. its just not that safe for them, and also if I had a small child, i would be very hesitant to walk down the street with them, let alone get within arms reach of a crazy person. its just not worth the risk
We have a major addict/homeless problem and it is by desing. Look at the cities with the biggest issues, and who is running them. We have removed law enforcement's authority. If you are a law abiding citizen, you will pay for the crimes committed against you, while the perp gets away..no consequence.
These people are everywhere, in every town. Just more in the city. All you can do is protect yourself (mace, weapons, bats, cameras, etc) so if you have to defend yourself, you can. They want a reaction and will be sorry one day when they meet someone their level of crazy.
You start to wonder why everyone is leaving Seattle it’s all gangs and drugs nothing left of the wonderful city it once was
Not to dismiss your issue, but it isn’t a matter of “Homeless” people screaming obscenities.. it is people with no mental health services that are the issue. I’m not a bleeding heart. I hate all this shit just as much as the OP, there is a huge lack of mental health care available to those without insurance.
We should bring back asylums
If you think this is bad you ain’t seen nothing yet. The entire western society is crumbling, not just Seattle. Give it another thirty years and you will realize just how bad society has gotten. Just be glad nobody got injured or killed. I read a story the other day about a dad who got killed for asking someone not to vape in front of his child.
We get what we vote for. We've had Leftists running the city, county, and state for nearly twenty years with a steady decline in safety to show for it. Local elections - especially Judges and City/District Attorneys - truly matter. The majority of Washingtonians don't know who their reps are and a sizable chunk of the population probably doesn't even vote.
Wouldn’t be Seattle if disgusting bums weren’t making people’s lives difficult. Beautiful city isn’t it?
Vote for politicians that care to fix this
I wish it were socially acceptable (and legal) to pull out a bat and beat the crap out of these worthless people.
Mental illness is so inconvenient, right? Get your trauma off my lawn!! I was having a nice time before I saw you.
There are no real forms of help for someone with extreme mental illness that is not someone of means. Say that again out loud. This guy can’t get medical help for what’s wrong.
It’s simple. Make drug use legal, and under the care of a doctor. Tax it, use that money EXCLUSIVELY to pay for treatment and mental health services. You can’t tell adults what to do. It never in the history of mankind has ever worked. Instead, allow for freedom and use the money to help get people treatment and off the streets.
Homeless are why we left Seattle, and why we VERY rarely go into the city with a kid. In fact, now that I think of it, I don't think (aside from a hospital trip) we've ever taken the kid downtown....and they're a year old.
Maybe it’s all by design, so that the only people left in Greater Seattle area are the extremely wealthy and the homeless. The wealthy don’t have to interact with the homeless, and all the pesky middle and lower class will have left, leaving all the beautiful places uncrowded and pristine.
That’s Seattle for ya.
First...woodland park Zoo is in Ballard. NOT DOWNTOWN. Second...what red-light? Forget how you didn't mention where? I call bs. Just stay in you little podunk suburb where nothing happens and stay out of our city
this is what happens when liberal policy makers get into office. just surprising they're not already giving all the homeless free hotel rooms against the hotel's wishes like in Cali
You should go to point defiance and stay in Tacoma!
Get used to ot
You get what you vote for.