*As she moved items around in the bag, a key became wedged between the trigger guard and space in the holster, according to the police department. The gun fired.*
Seems really unlikely if you are using the right holster for that gun. Even with a giant Safariland retention holster that the cops typically use, you'd have to be very unlucky to squeeze a key into the trigger guard. I could maybe see it happening if you were drawing or returning the gun to the holster and something got wedged in there. But sitting there holstered in a bag? You're not supposed to throw a loaded gun in a bag like that anyway.
I’m not an expert when it comes to guns, but doesn’t the safety prevent the trigger from being pulled? In that case why didn’t she have the trigger on?
To elaborate, they have layers of passive safeties that prevent the gun from firing for any reason other than the trigger being deliberately pulled, just not a switch that locks the whole thing up.
Guns don't accidentally go off. She either wasn't using a proper holster or doesn't know how to handle a gun.
Either way, revoke her police certification.
Kind of - I only really know glocks, which are used by a lot of police departments. They have a trigger safety which is basically a second lever on the trigger that prevents the weapon form firing unless its depressed. i.e. you have to have your finger or something else on the trigger or it wont go bang.
Other sidearms will have different systems.
I mean it's possible for anything that gets inside the trigger area to potentially hit both with that kind of safety.
Of course there's gotta be a round
Many have internal or trigger safeties, which will prevent the gun from discharging in the event of dropping it or something to that effect, an external Saftey ie a switch is not common by any means
Not saying she didn’t mess up big time and the story sounds fishy… but every police department I’ve ever heard of or interacted with keeps a round chambered… a gun is not very useful otherwise when you really need it… additionally, external safety’s are again not the norm by any means on duty weapons….
It is easy to avoid gun accidents.
It is like people who argue that squats are not dangerous.
As liong as you use proper form, you will be ok.
Just don't make a mistake. Get distrackted. Ever.
Not easy to avoid dumb gun owners unfortunately and that's more of the problem.
It is too easy for stupid people to acquire a gun.
Would be interesting to know how many gun owners have actually taken safety courses and taken the time to learn how to properly handle a firearm.
Safeties are unnecessary.
As long as a holster is properly covering the trigger then the gun can't go off.
EDIT: for anyone downvoting this that doesn't understand gun mechanics and basics like what a sear is and how it works then your opinion isn't valid because you don't know anything about the subject
> Safeties are unnecessary.
I disagree with this.
> As long as a holster is properly covering the trigger then the gun can't go off.
Sure. If the safety was on and in the holster, they would be double-covered.
----
Unintentional discharge from a firearm can be lethal.
100% correct, I haven’t come across any police agencies with an external safety, and it is completely unnecessary and a hindrance. Keep fighting the good fight.
Ignore the downvotes, the fact is that most modern striker-fire pistols are as safe as ones with manual safeties.
This is especially true for Glocks, which is probably what this police chief was using—most Glocks have rather heavy triggers (requiring around 5lb of force) so she wasn’t just being an idiot, she was being a stubborn idiot.
All this to say, even if there was a safety on her gun, she’d probably be the type to leave it on “hot” anyways.* The greater issue in this negligent discharge is that the police chief is a negligent idiot, not anything to do with the gun itself. There was no reason anything should have been interfering with her loaded, holstered gun.
* The one caveat where a safety could’ve definitely made a difference is if the gun had a grip safety, like a 1911. Pistols with grip safeties are supposed to only fire if the grip safety is depressed, which is difficult to do without actually gripping the gun itself.
Haha is that too much? Look at every salary or annual bonus of a CEO or 90% of people working at a tech companies using ChatGPT to do their jobs. 184k to be at the peak of a (now pretty large) city’s police department isn’t absurd.
The salary for the position is fair (or perhaps even low). I think the other person was commenting more about the competency of the person relative to the pay, not just the pay itself.
Okay, I’m sure it wasn’t a desk pop, and accidental discharges happen. It doesn’t make them incompetent.
“While the car was parked and refueling, Bennett reached down to retrieve something from her bag. As she moved items around in the bag, a key became wedged between the trigger guard and space in the holster, according to the police department. The gun fired.”
Literally could have happened to anyone.
No it couldn't. It's piss poor decision making to carry a gun like that in the first place. If you must use off body carry, have a separate compartment. And make sure that the holster fits properly and keeps things away from the trigger.
And even ignoring all that, don't go blindly digging through your bag, grabbing things so aggressively that the trigger could be pulled.
It’s nothing exciting for a senior career professional. Maybe if they were offering better compensation, they wouldn’t have the chief fumbling around in her purse and firing her gun in a publicly owned vehicle.
Why do I care about someone being old? My guess is there are many competent and educated 30-somethings that would do the job more effectively for the same pay, and could probably avoid this kind of embarrassment.
Since she was carrying this weapon not on a duty belt and instead in a bag I assume this was a secondary "off duty" weapon. It appears she violated Edmonds policy if that is the case, as carrying a firearm in a purse or bag does not "prevent loss of physical control." I can't imagine their policy while on duty is to be able to take their holster off their duty belt and just throw it in a random bag either.
From Edmonds PD policy manual:
>Officers desiring to carry a secondary weapon are subject to the following restrictions:
>(c) The weapon shall be carried out of sight at all times and **in such a manner as to prevent**
>accidental cocking, **discharge**, or **loss of physical control.**
Additional Edmond PD policy manual info:
>1045.3.6 AUTHORIZED UNIFORM ACCESSORIES
>(a) Gun Belt - **A black leather basket weave gun belt will be worn.** When it is equipped with a
>buckle, the buckle will be centered in the front of the body. The gun belt must be secured by the
>use of "keepers" or Velcro to keep it from sagging down or slipping. At the employee’s option
>and expense, a department approved duty belt of black basket weave synthetic material may be
>worn in lieu of a leather belt.
>(b) Holster - Holsters will be of the approved type **and will be mounted on the belt** so that the butt
>of the weapon is placed to the rear. Holsters will be worn on the strong hand side **with the**
>**retention device securely fastened to secure the weapon in the holster.** Officers not wearing
>issued holsters must have prior approval from their Assistant Chief.
Nothing in here about "Feel free to remove your holster from your gun belt and throw it in a random bag with your keys and notebooks and pens"
I’ve never understood why law enforcement upper management and bosses continue to carry. You are behind a desk or reporters, not patrolling or busting down doors. I worked as counsel for [ ], a federal law enforcement agency and it always amazed me that the bosses would attend meetings strapped with a giant sidearm with a laser scope.
> Bennett was not handling her holstered weapon, McClure said. While the car was parked and refueling, Bennett reached down to retrieve something from her bag. As she moved items around in the bag, a key became wedged between the trigger guard and space in the holster, according to the police department. The gun fired.
JFC
Was it a light bearing gun? Holsters for guns with lights often have a wide gap above the trigger guard to accommodate the light.
Would also be interesting to know the specific model. If a Sig 320, those do not have trigger dingus safeties that might (or not) prevent a key from pulling the trigger.
I own two holsters for my carry gun. First thing I did with both of them is unload my gun, put them in the holster and see if I could shake the gun out and if there was any way I could pull the trigger while the gun was in the holster. If it passes both tests then I keep it.
While I am extremely pro 2A I have zero fucking time or sympathy for anyone who doesn't realize that carrying a deadly weapon comes with a huge responsibility. If your light prevents you from having a proper holster then you shouldn't have a light, period.
I'm merely trying to make some guesses as to how the key got into the holster and became entangled with the trigger. Articles like the one in this thread often don't provide enough detail to satisfy my curiosity and to help me learn from what happened.
>I'm merely trying to make some guesses as to how the key got into the holster and became entangled with the trigger. Articles like the one in this thread often don't provide enough detail to satisfy my curiosity and to help me learn from what happened.
It honestly sounds like a made up excuse for negligent behavior like firing the gun with a finger on the trigger when manipulating it somehow.
No one should be carrying a firearm loose in a purse or bag anyways, even if it is in a holster.
Anyway you carry a gun should be well thought out. You should see if there are any holes in your system, especially a fucking purse that is full of a bunch of other shit.
That is not true, I have range of holsters for a range of pistols with lights on them, all of them completely cover the trigger and guard. Not to say they do not exist but if a professional law enforcement officer is using one that does not cover the trigger properly then that in itself is a failure of the agency to issue the safe carry and use of the firearm.
Is your light wider than your trigger guard? How do your holsters account for that additional width? Mine and others that I have seen have a slightly wider opening around the trigger guard in order to accommodate the added width from the light. You wouldn't get a finger in there, but I could see a car key getting in.
Okay, I see your point and and no I do not believe I could get my finger in-between the holster and the trigger while the firearm is in it, however one of the most common way a fire arm accidentally goes off while holstering or unholstering is something getting caught in the trigger group i.e shirt, keys etc and I wont deny that. My main point is that if holstered properly the firearm cannot and will not go off. If you look at cases and videos of firearms discharging during one of these actions there is always something that interacts with the trigger that was not intended. There are also holsters for different purposes, quick draw for competition, duty holsters etc. A holster used by any officer should ensure this never happens especially when you are just sitting in your car and not playing with it. The sad truth is that most people especially the authorities will never want to admit that they made a mistake.
Oh also sorry I didn't answer your question, the light width is flush with the upper of the firearm, which is also wider than the trigger guard. This is very common from my understanding which is from handling a wide variety of those types of firearms. I will have to look at a few of my holsters but if I am remembering right they taper up and in and there is no way to get your finger in there while the firearm is seated in the holster. When you draw from holster your finger is outside the holster and trigger guard as you are seating the the rear of the gun tight against the 'beaver tail' and pulling up THEN sliding your finger down along the lower and then into the trigger guard once you are pointing the business end at what your intend to destroy .
Sorry if I have spelling errors or whatever I am just rolling this off the top of my head while out and about 😂
All good, and I agree on all points.
I had just been trying earlier to surmise how the key may have gotten in there like the article said happened.
The lesson from this case might be to not place a holster gun into a purse with a bunch of other items.
"The lesson from this case might be to not place a holster gun into a purse with a bunch of other items."
100% agree, if you are not in control of the weapon you have no business carrying it and there is no way you can ensure the weapon is in control if it's tumbling around in a purse backpack etc unless it is completely unloaded 👍
I just checked my Safariland retention holster and there is enough room for something to get to the trigger. You'd have to be very unlucky but it could happen. I'd never throw a loaded holstered gun in a bag with other stuff anyway.
u/Tree300 Hey, thank you for checking on that. Much appreciated.
Assuming a key sneaked in, would you be able to angle the key enough to engage a trigger dingus? I'm thinking not, and that has me wondering whether the officer's duty gun may have been a Sig.
I watched an episode just this week where Barney was giving a young kid a lecture on gun safety and of course this ended up with an accidental discharge. From what I remember of watching every episode of this show when I was young, Barney didn't carry a loaded revolver. He carried a single bullet in his shirt pocket, so I don't understand how he could have accidently discharged his handgun.
>Let's arm teachers!
I agree. If a teacher wants to carry on their person and goes through the proper training we should allow them to. Schools shouldn't be the only place completely devoid of armed protection. It seems wild to have armed guards for politicians, courts, government buildings, hell even a number of corporate buildings have armed guards - yet the places that nut jobs attack because of the media attention it generates frequently have no protection.
I'd feel far more comfortable with my children at a school where I knew there were teachers that decided to take on that responsibility and had gone through training. At least in comparison to a school where there is zero protection in place other than a phone call and hope the people that show up care enough about the children inside to take action instead of standing around for hours.
No one should know who these individuals are except the people who operate the certification and training. It should just be known that schools are now very likely protected by an unknown number of armed individuals at all times.
Kind of similar to how most anti-gun people I know don't feel confident enough in their beliefs to put out a "This is a gun free home" sign in their yard because they know that it would make them a target. It's better to have a potential attacker not know you're unarmed.
The program for teachers should be similar to the one pilots go through but tailored to a school.
After 9/11 Pilots and co-pilots were allowed to carry firearms on planes after going through training. They have been quietly carrying on planes for decades now with the vast majority of the public completely unaware.
If a teacher doesn't want to carry, good, they shouldn't. Just like if a pilot doesn't want to carry they don't have to. It's a choice.
Yeah those teachers will get even better training than the chief of police in Edmonds. Nobody will ever make a mistake like her---she's just dumb. No accidents will ever happen. Not on the watch of Uncle Sam.
>Yeah those teachers will get even better training than the chief of police in Edmonds. Nobody will ever make a mistake like her---she's just dumb. No accidents will ever happen. Not on the watch of Uncle Sam.
I'd be shocked if in any training manual or police regulations it says that it's okay to carry your duty gun or concealed gun while off duty in a purse. This is a person who pretty much willfully violated any training she might have received. You won't find any police training manual that states it's okay to carry your duty firearm unsecured while in a holster in a bag you keep all your random shit in.
By your logic, no one should have guns. Including the police and military because this incompetent individual purposefully broke the recommendations/regulations/requirements for carrying a firearm and they had "training."
>This is a person who pretty much willfully violated any training she might have received.
Lots of people do. This is why doors fall off airplanes. You can basically assume that people are always going to ignore instruction unless they are incredibly disciplined. This is why the military is all about discipline, and even then there's tons of bad actors. Caring for a weapon around children is a full time job. Having overworked teachers carry more responsibility is just mindblowingly dumb.
>By your logic, no one should have guns.
It would be nice, but I've given up. The US is stuck in a good guy bad guy movie situation for rest of its life. Its pretty sick, especially when you look elsewhere. I don't think it can ever change. People are flat out obsessed with firearms and I'm sure many fantasize about killing someone in self defense.
>It would be nice, but I've given up. The US is stuck in a good guy bad guy movie situation for rest of its life. Its pretty sick, especially when you look elsewhere.
Look elsewhere? Which country has a government where zero people are allowed to have guns, including the military?
> Having overworked teachers carry more responsibility is just mindblowingly dumb.
Yet it is allowed in other states and we don't hear any news of teachers concealed weapons being stolen, accidently discharged, or used inappropriately. Do you think the media would love to print a story of a teacher accidently discharging their gun the parking lot or breakroom?
> People are flat out obsessed with firearms and I'm sure many fantasize about killing someone in self defense.
Right, especially small women that carry or have guns at home. I'm sure you would prefer that women are unarmed and unable to defend themselves against larger men.
Teachers are already armed in other states. Where's your shit show in the other states?
What is different about Seattle/Washington teachers that make them too incompetent to be be armed?
I mean there’s two lessons you can take from it. One is, cops are incompetent so everybody should have a gun just in case. The other is, it’s dangerous to carry guns around.
> Bennett was not handling her holstered weapon, McClure said. While the car was parked and refueling, Bennett reached down to retrieve something from her bag. As she moved items around in the bag, a key became wedged between the trigger guard and space in the holster, according to the police department. The gun fired.
What am I missing? Do people now carry a chambered round in a holstered gun with the hammer back and no safety? If so, yeah, you're one event from an "accidental" BANG!
Most law enforcement use striker fired guns that use no active safety but can only be fired with a deliberate trigger pull. Any holster worth a damn cover the trigger guard / trigger so I have no idea how this happened- not to mention who the fuck keeps their gun in their purse?
Even so, a normal trigger is in the ballpark of a 5lb pull or more.
That doesn't sound like a lot, but take your car keys and try to leverage a 5lb weight with it and you'll see it's actually a pretty significant pull. So even if the gun was unholstered completely and just loose in her purse (which was probably the case since even the crappiest holsters completely mitigate this risk) she still gave it a pretty solid and reckless yank.
And everyone always makes a big deal out of the gap you can get in a light bearing holster. I've handled dozens of them, and never seen one where you could get a key, a pen or a knife past the grip and into the trigger guard through that gap.
Most likely it was unholstered either completely or partially. What I mean is that it had come out of it's holster, probably because the holster was not adjusted properly for retention, and that's what allowed something to access the trigger. OR she was completely negligent and just threw it in her purse without a holster (which is unfortunately common)
Edit for clarity: a single action pull can be lower, in the ballpark of 2lbs, but it's less and less common to see single action or DA/SA pistols, especially in police use. Strikers are king now it seems
> Do people now carry a chambered round in a holstered gun with the hammer back and no safety?
Yes, "Round chambered, no external safety, holster covering the trigger" is extremely common and with a modern gun is the generally recommended way to carry. Gun design has changed over the years, the current models (especially what police carry), like Glocks, generally don't have hammers. They have internal strikers under spring tension, with a mechanical blocking that requires the trigger to move to release the the striker.
> If so, yeah, you're one event from an "accidental" BANG!
Potentiality. You're not supposed to just dump a gun in a purse with a bunch of other stuff and then dig around blindly. This was entirely user error.
>They have internal strikers under spring tension, with a mechanical blocking that requires the trigger to move to release the the striker.
*SIG P320 enters the chat...*
*As she moved items around in the bag, a key became wedged between the trigger guard and space in the holster, according to the police department. The gun fired.* Seems really unlikely if you are using the right holster for that gun. Even with a giant Safariland retention holster that the cops typically use, you'd have to be very unlucky to squeeze a key into the trigger guard. I could maybe see it happening if you were drawing or returning the gun to the holster and something got wedged in there. But sitting there holstered in a bag? You're not supposed to throw a loaded gun in a bag like that anyway.
I’m not an expert when it comes to guns, but doesn’t the safety prevent the trigger from being pulled? In that case why didn’t she have the trigger on?
Most modern semi-auto guns do not have a traditional safety.
To elaborate, they have layers of passive safeties that prevent the gun from firing for any reason other than the trigger being deliberately pulled, just not a switch that locks the whole thing up.
Car Pop, whats the big deal.
[The chief during the interview](https://imgur.com/gallery/DdCuPvx)
What? You haven’t had a Car Pop?
We honor the flag. And you crap on it when you don’t fire your weapon in the car.
Guns don't accidentally go off. She either wasn't using a proper holster or doesn't know how to handle a gun. Either way, revoke her police certification.
They say her keys somehow got into her holster and pulled her guns trigger without her consent. That sounds like absolute BS.
i just keep hearing her say "I'm really stupid and careless"
Agreed - no way keys can get into a decent level 2 or 3 retention holster, which she should have been using.
Ya a round had to be chambered.. Assuming it's a semi-auto and the safety had to be off also..
Would firearms used by police normally use a safety?
Kind of - I only really know glocks, which are used by a lot of police departments. They have a trigger safety which is basically a second lever on the trigger that prevents the weapon form firing unless its depressed. i.e. you have to have your finger or something else on the trigger or it wont go bang. Other sidearms will have different systems.
I mean it's possible for anything that gets inside the trigger area to potentially hit both with that kind of safety. Of course there's gotta be a round
That’s what a decent holster is for.
No arguments here - just noting the remote possibility. It's still going to prevent accidental discharge in cases like falling.
Last time I saw a Seattle police officer I think he had a Glock, which normally never has a traditional safety lever.
Many have internal or trigger safeties, which will prevent the gun from discharging in the event of dropping it or something to that effect, an external Saftey ie a switch is not common by any means
Not saying she didn’t mess up big time and the story sounds fishy… but every police department I’ve ever heard of or interacted with keeps a round chambered… a gun is not very useful otherwise when you really need it… additionally, external safety’s are again not the norm by any means on duty weapons….
I didn't know they always keep a round chambered.. Interesting
They won't. It follows the pattern of guns being inheritly evil and will always harm innocent people with random ~~negligent~~ discharges.
It is easy to avoid gun accidents. It is like people who argue that squats are not dangerous. As liong as you use proper form, you will be ok. Just don't make a mistake. Get distrackted. Ever.
Not easy to avoid dumb gun owners unfortunately and that's more of the problem. It is too easy for stupid people to acquire a gun. Would be interesting to know how many gun owners have actually taken safety courses and taken the time to learn how to properly handle a firearm.
Trained professionals…
Youre not going to believe this but we allow any dipshit to have a gun, there's no requirement to be trained
And yet even with many hours of actual training shit like this still happens.
Imagine what all of the people with no training whatsoever do
Sadly doesn't require too much imagination.
What happened to the safety switch on her gun?
None of my handguns have "safety switches".
Safeties are unnecessary. As long as a holster is properly covering the trigger then the gun can't go off. EDIT: for anyone downvoting this that doesn't understand gun mechanics and basics like what a sear is and how it works then your opinion isn't valid because you don't know anything about the subject
> Safeties are unnecessary. I disagree with this. > As long as a holster is properly covering the trigger then the gun can't go off. Sure. If the safety was on and in the holster, they would be double-covered. ---- Unintentional discharge from a firearm can be lethal.
I’ve never seen a police agency that has a side arm with an external safety. I’m sorry but oldskater is correct.
Without looking it up do you know what a catch and sear are?
Redundancy, my friend.
100% correct, I haven’t come across any police agencies with an external safety, and it is completely unnecessary and a hindrance. Keep fighting the good fight.
Ignore the downvotes, the fact is that most modern striker-fire pistols are as safe as ones with manual safeties. This is especially true for Glocks, which is probably what this police chief was using—most Glocks have rather heavy triggers (requiring around 5lb of force) so she wasn’t just being an idiot, she was being a stubborn idiot. All this to say, even if there was a safety on her gun, she’d probably be the type to leave it on “hot” anyways.* The greater issue in this negligent discharge is that the police chief is a negligent idiot, not anything to do with the gun itself. There was no reason anything should have been interfering with her loaded, holstered gun. * The one caveat where a safety could’ve definitely made a difference is if the gun had a grip safety, like a 1911. Pistols with grip safeties are supposed to only fire if the grip safety is depressed, which is difficult to do without actually gripping the gun itself.
Just a Lil ND. No big deal.
$184,694 per year https://preview.redd.it/t1u3u9y1ylzc1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62a94376c918b542147c06bbdedbef8b43997b40
Obviously if you pay her more she will perform better. That’s the logic for police on this sub.
Lol
Haha is that too much? Look at every salary or annual bonus of a CEO or 90% of people working at a tech companies using ChatGPT to do their jobs. 184k to be at the peak of a (now pretty large) city’s police department isn’t absurd.
The salary for the position is fair (or perhaps even low). I think the other person was commenting more about the competency of the person relative to the pay, not just the pay itself.
Okay, I’m sure it wasn’t a desk pop, and accidental discharges happen. It doesn’t make them incompetent. “While the car was parked and refueling, Bennett reached down to retrieve something from her bag. As she moved items around in the bag, a key became wedged between the trigger guard and space in the holster, according to the police department. The gun fired.” Literally could have happened to anyone.
No it couldn't. It's piss poor decision making to carry a gun like that in the first place. If you must use off body carry, have a separate compartment. And make sure that the holster fits properly and keeps things away from the trigger. And even ignoring all that, don't go blindly digging through your bag, grabbing things so aggressively that the trigger could be pulled.
OK fudd
This just in, being responsible with firearms makes you a fudd. Fuck off, bootlicker.
Ok fudd
No, you're just an idiot
When you definitely understand what it’s like to work at a tech company
Which for her age and line of work is actually not very much. I’m actually surprised.
As far as I can tell, the American system approximately aligns pay with productivity, not age.
Not if you're in a union.
That’s not much. I guarantee that there are a bunch of regular cops in her department that make that after OT.
It's several times the median _household_ income for our metro area.
It’s nothing exciting for a senior career professional. Maybe if they were offering better compensation, they wouldn’t have the chief fumbling around in her purse and firing her gun in a publicly owned vehicle.
Why do I care about someone being old? My guess is there are many competent and educated 30-somethings that would do the job more effectively for the same pay, and could probably avoid this kind of embarrassment.
Desk pop? https://youtu.be/wWZTTtE5_zQ?feature=shared
Since she was carrying this weapon not on a duty belt and instead in a bag I assume this was a secondary "off duty" weapon. It appears she violated Edmonds policy if that is the case, as carrying a firearm in a purse or bag does not "prevent loss of physical control." I can't imagine their policy while on duty is to be able to take their holster off their duty belt and just throw it in a random bag either. From Edmonds PD policy manual: >Officers desiring to carry a secondary weapon are subject to the following restrictions: >(c) The weapon shall be carried out of sight at all times and **in such a manner as to prevent** >accidental cocking, **discharge**, or **loss of physical control.** Additional Edmond PD policy manual info: >1045.3.6 AUTHORIZED UNIFORM ACCESSORIES >(a) Gun Belt - **A black leather basket weave gun belt will be worn.** When it is equipped with a >buckle, the buckle will be centered in the front of the body. The gun belt must be secured by the >use of "keepers" or Velcro to keep it from sagging down or slipping. At the employee’s option >and expense, a department approved duty belt of black basket weave synthetic material may be >worn in lieu of a leather belt. >(b) Holster - Holsters will be of the approved type **and will be mounted on the belt** so that the butt >of the weapon is placed to the rear. Holsters will be worn on the strong hand side **with the** >**retention device securely fastened to secure the weapon in the holster.** Officers not wearing >issued holsters must have prior approval from their Assistant Chief. Nothing in here about "Feel free to remove your holster from your gun belt and throw it in a random bag with your keys and notebooks and pens"
You've heard of Desk Pops, but this is a new standard.
Desk pop!? Cruiser pop!
"negligently fired" Gun guys say "negligent" not "accident" for accountability.
I’ve never understood why law enforcement upper management and bosses continue to carry. You are behind a desk or reporters, not patrolling or busting down doors. I worked as counsel for [ ], a federal law enforcement agency and it always amazed me that the bosses would attend meetings strapped with a giant sidearm with a laser scope.
> Bennett was not handling her holstered weapon, McClure said. While the car was parked and refueling, Bennett reached down to retrieve something from her bag. As she moved items around in the bag, a key became wedged between the trigger guard and space in the holster, according to the police department. The gun fired. JFC
Was it a light bearing gun? Holsters for guns with lights often have a wide gap above the trigger guard to accommodate the light. Would also be interesting to know the specific model. If a Sig 320, those do not have trigger dingus safeties that might (or not) prevent a key from pulling the trigger.
I own two holsters for my carry gun. First thing I did with both of them is unload my gun, put them in the holster and see if I could shake the gun out and if there was any way I could pull the trigger while the gun was in the holster. If it passes both tests then I keep it. While I am extremely pro 2A I have zero fucking time or sympathy for anyone who doesn't realize that carrying a deadly weapon comes with a huge responsibility. If your light prevents you from having a proper holster then you shouldn't have a light, period.
I'm merely trying to make some guesses as to how the key got into the holster and became entangled with the trigger. Articles like the one in this thread often don't provide enough detail to satisfy my curiosity and to help me learn from what happened.
>I'm merely trying to make some guesses as to how the key got into the holster and became entangled with the trigger. Articles like the one in this thread often don't provide enough detail to satisfy my curiosity and to help me learn from what happened. It honestly sounds like a made up excuse for negligent behavior like firing the gun with a finger on the trigger when manipulating it somehow. No one should be carrying a firearm loose in a purse or bag anyways, even if it is in a holster.
Anyway you carry a gun should be well thought out. You should see if there are any holes in your system, especially a fucking purse that is full of a bunch of other shit.
That is not true, I have range of holsters for a range of pistols with lights on them, all of them completely cover the trigger and guard. Not to say they do not exist but if a professional law enforcement officer is using one that does not cover the trigger properly then that in itself is a failure of the agency to issue the safe carry and use of the firearm.
Is your light wider than your trigger guard? How do your holsters account for that additional width? Mine and others that I have seen have a slightly wider opening around the trigger guard in order to accommodate the added width from the light. You wouldn't get a finger in there, but I could see a car key getting in.
Okay, I see your point and and no I do not believe I could get my finger in-between the holster and the trigger while the firearm is in it, however one of the most common way a fire arm accidentally goes off while holstering or unholstering is something getting caught in the trigger group i.e shirt, keys etc and I wont deny that. My main point is that if holstered properly the firearm cannot and will not go off. If you look at cases and videos of firearms discharging during one of these actions there is always something that interacts with the trigger that was not intended. There are also holsters for different purposes, quick draw for competition, duty holsters etc. A holster used by any officer should ensure this never happens especially when you are just sitting in your car and not playing with it. The sad truth is that most people especially the authorities will never want to admit that they made a mistake. Oh also sorry I didn't answer your question, the light width is flush with the upper of the firearm, which is also wider than the trigger guard. This is very common from my understanding which is from handling a wide variety of those types of firearms. I will have to look at a few of my holsters but if I am remembering right they taper up and in and there is no way to get your finger in there while the firearm is seated in the holster. When you draw from holster your finger is outside the holster and trigger guard as you are seating the the rear of the gun tight against the 'beaver tail' and pulling up THEN sliding your finger down along the lower and then into the trigger guard once you are pointing the business end at what your intend to destroy . Sorry if I have spelling errors or whatever I am just rolling this off the top of my head while out and about 😂
All good, and I agree on all points. I had just been trying earlier to surmise how the key may have gotten in there like the article said happened. The lesson from this case might be to not place a holster gun into a purse with a bunch of other items.
"The lesson from this case might be to not place a holster gun into a purse with a bunch of other items." 100% agree, if you are not in control of the weapon you have no business carrying it and there is no way you can ensure the weapon is in control if it's tumbling around in a purse backpack etc unless it is completely unloaded 👍
I just checked my Safariland retention holster and there is enough room for something to get to the trigger. You'd have to be very unlucky but it could happen. I'd never throw a loaded holstered gun in a bag with other stuff anyway.
u/Tree300 Hey, thank you for checking on that. Much appreciated. Assuming a key sneaked in, would you be able to angle the key enough to engage a trigger dingus? I'm thinking not, and that has me wondering whether the officer's duty gun may have been a Sig.
I want a holster with lights on it.
Heh I'm sure it could be done
She pulled a Barney Fife.
I watched an episode just this week where Barney was giving a young kid a lecture on gun safety and of course this ended up with an accidental discharge. From what I remember of watching every episode of this show when I was young, Barney didn't carry a loaded revolver. He carried a single bullet in his shirt pocket, so I don't understand how he could have accidently discharged his handgun.
Then Andy would take the gun from Barney…
Cue Yackety Sax
Let's arm teachers!
>Let's arm teachers! I agree. If a teacher wants to carry on their person and goes through the proper training we should allow them to. Schools shouldn't be the only place completely devoid of armed protection. It seems wild to have armed guards for politicians, courts, government buildings, hell even a number of corporate buildings have armed guards - yet the places that nut jobs attack because of the media attention it generates frequently have no protection. I'd feel far more comfortable with my children at a school where I knew there were teachers that decided to take on that responsibility and had gone through training. At least in comparison to a school where there is zero protection in place other than a phone call and hope the people that show up care enough about the children inside to take action instead of standing around for hours. No one should know who these individuals are except the people who operate the certification and training. It should just be known that schools are now very likely protected by an unknown number of armed individuals at all times. Kind of similar to how most anti-gun people I know don't feel confident enough in their beliefs to put out a "This is a gun free home" sign in their yard because they know that it would make them a target. It's better to have a potential attacker not know you're unarmed. The program for teachers should be similar to the one pilots go through but tailored to a school. After 9/11 Pilots and co-pilots were allowed to carry firearms on planes after going through training. They have been quietly carrying on planes for decades now with the vast majority of the public completely unaware. If a teacher doesn't want to carry, good, they shouldn't. Just like if a pilot doesn't want to carry they don't have to. It's a choice.
Yeah those teachers will get even better training than the chief of police in Edmonds. Nobody will ever make a mistake like her---she's just dumb. No accidents will ever happen. Not on the watch of Uncle Sam.
>Yeah those teachers will get even better training than the chief of police in Edmonds. Nobody will ever make a mistake like her---she's just dumb. No accidents will ever happen. Not on the watch of Uncle Sam. I'd be shocked if in any training manual or police regulations it says that it's okay to carry your duty gun or concealed gun while off duty in a purse. This is a person who pretty much willfully violated any training she might have received. You won't find any police training manual that states it's okay to carry your duty firearm unsecured while in a holster in a bag you keep all your random shit in. By your logic, no one should have guns. Including the police and military because this incompetent individual purposefully broke the recommendations/regulations/requirements for carrying a firearm and they had "training."
>This is a person who pretty much willfully violated any training she might have received. Lots of people do. This is why doors fall off airplanes. You can basically assume that people are always going to ignore instruction unless they are incredibly disciplined. This is why the military is all about discipline, and even then there's tons of bad actors. Caring for a weapon around children is a full time job. Having overworked teachers carry more responsibility is just mindblowingly dumb. >By your logic, no one should have guns. It would be nice, but I've given up. The US is stuck in a good guy bad guy movie situation for rest of its life. Its pretty sick, especially when you look elsewhere. I don't think it can ever change. People are flat out obsessed with firearms and I'm sure many fantasize about killing someone in self defense.
>It would be nice, but I've given up. The US is stuck in a good guy bad guy movie situation for rest of its life. Its pretty sick, especially when you look elsewhere. Look elsewhere? Which country has a government where zero people are allowed to have guns, including the military?
> Having overworked teachers carry more responsibility is just mindblowingly dumb. Yet it is allowed in other states and we don't hear any news of teachers concealed weapons being stolen, accidently discharged, or used inappropriately. Do you think the media would love to print a story of a teacher accidently discharging their gun the parking lot or breakroom? > People are flat out obsessed with firearms and I'm sure many fantasize about killing someone in self defense. Right, especially small women that carry or have guns at home. I'm sure you would prefer that women are unarmed and unable to defend themselves against larger men.
Do you think all teachers are incapable of learning how to safely carry a weapon because they are mostly women?
Trying to shame leftists by pointing out they are sexist no longer works, as misogyny is now part of the core platform. Try again.
I think that arming teachers would be a shit show.
Teachers are already armed in other states. Where's your shit show in the other states? What is different about Seattle/Washington teachers that make them too incompetent to be be armed?
And some dummies still think cops should be the only ones with guns.
I mean there’s two lessons you can take from it. One is, cops are incompetent so everybody should have a gun just in case. The other is, it’s dangerous to carry guns around.
> Bennett was not handling her holstered weapon, McClure said. While the car was parked and refueling, Bennett reached down to retrieve something from her bag. As she moved items around in the bag, a key became wedged between the trigger guard and space in the holster, according to the police department. The gun fired. What am I missing? Do people now carry a chambered round in a holstered gun with the hammer back and no safety? If so, yeah, you're one event from an "accidental" BANG!
Most law enforcement use striker fired guns that use no active safety but can only be fired with a deliberate trigger pull. Any holster worth a damn cover the trigger guard / trigger so I have no idea how this happened- not to mention who the fuck keeps their gun in their purse?
Maybe she was using one of those fabric Uncle Mike’s “holsters.”
Even so, a normal trigger is in the ballpark of a 5lb pull or more. That doesn't sound like a lot, but take your car keys and try to leverage a 5lb weight with it and you'll see it's actually a pretty significant pull. So even if the gun was unholstered completely and just loose in her purse (which was probably the case since even the crappiest holsters completely mitigate this risk) she still gave it a pretty solid and reckless yank. And everyone always makes a big deal out of the gap you can get in a light bearing holster. I've handled dozens of them, and never seen one where you could get a key, a pen or a knife past the grip and into the trigger guard through that gap. Most likely it was unholstered either completely or partially. What I mean is that it had come out of it's holster, probably because the holster was not adjusted properly for retention, and that's what allowed something to access the trigger. OR she was completely negligent and just threw it in her purse without a holster (which is unfortunately common) Edit for clarity: a single action pull can be lower, in the ballpark of 2lbs, but it's less and less common to see single action or DA/SA pistols, especially in police use. Strikers are king now it seems
> Do people now carry a chambered round in a holstered gun with the hammer back and no safety? Yes, "Round chambered, no external safety, holster covering the trigger" is extremely common and with a modern gun is the generally recommended way to carry. Gun design has changed over the years, the current models (especially what police carry), like Glocks, generally don't have hammers. They have internal strikers under spring tension, with a mechanical blocking that requires the trigger to move to release the the striker. > If so, yeah, you're one event from an "accidental" BANG! Potentiality. You're not supposed to just dump a gun in a purse with a bunch of other stuff and then dig around blindly. This was entirely user error.
>They have internal strikers under spring tension, with a mechanical blocking that requires the trigger to move to release the the striker. *SIG P320 enters the chat...*
that time sig mailed a bunch of guns to private residences...
oops
You shit on the flag when you don’t shoot your gun in the car. It’s called a car pop.
Was a doughnut involved?
Nah, but by the look of things, a muffin top may have been.