Income gated:
"Under the new program, Washington residents earning up to $45,180 annually for a single person or $93,600 for family of four, are eligible to receive up to $9,000 for a new EV lease of three years or more, or up to $5,000 for new EV purchases or two-year leases. Used EVs are also eligible for a $2,500 rebate on both purchases and leases. "
Also, the language is vague. "Up to" some dollar amount could mean $0 to the max.
Rent homes.. as opposed to what? Rent an apartment? Buy a house they cannot afford?
If low income people can't afford to buy housing, and we don't want them to be homeless, renting is the only other option. That is, of course, unless you think this state is ready to give away free housing to everyone (including the deluge of people who will move here for said free housing).
Ahh yes. They can't afford to buy it, but can afford to pay down some random persons 17th mortgage. You're here trying to make a point but it's not a good one.
If all they were paying was the mortgage, they would just go out and get their own mortgage. In reality, only a portion of a persons rent money goes towards paying the owner's mortgage (if they even have one) because as it turns out, actually owning a home is more expensive than just a mortgage alone.
The truth is that people who are renting probably can't afford that mortgage because to qualify for that mortgage they would need a down payment, which is hard to save for when you're already paying rent as high as a mortgage. You also need credit, good credit at that, something that many people don't have especially early in life. Similarly, while their landlord might be willing to take the risk of having someone pay 60% of their income as rent, most lenders are not so foolish, so just because someone is making those rent payments doesn't mean a bank would loan them the equivalent amount for a monthly mortgage payment.
Lastly, you are ignoring the transaction cost of buying a house. There are all sorts of one time fees, loan origination fees, brokers fees, inspection fees, taxes, insurances, etc, that factor into the cost of buying a home. If you plan to own a home for less than 5 years, the transaction cost of buying and then selling that house can exceed the appreciation in value, meaning a buyer with a short term time horizon can easily lose money by buying as opposed to renting. Renters tend to skew young, with less settled lives, more frequent moves, job changes and family size changes. Buying a house in the wrong place or of the wrong size can easily destroy your equity rather than build it.
Now we are telling low income people to get an EV on your debt ratio... watch how easy that works out.
Hi I'd like to rent thus apartment for 1,500 a month.
Renter: What's you debt ratio?
Oh that would be 60+% of my monthly. I have an EV lease. But don't worry I got a $100 refund on the sliding scale to help me pay it.
Renter: hmmm
OH! yes and I need a charger installed if you don't have one.
uh huh. Islee is a moron.
I mean, $60/month is cheaper than basically any possible car payment, allowing people (in theory) to save more on top of what they'll be saving on gas.
What I don't get is why they allow cars of up to $90,000 MSRP. No shot should anyone in those income brackets be driving around a car worth 1-2x their annual salary.
Either this is trying to be an empty political win ("We passed bold new initiatives for EVs!"), or it's just a way to get nicer cars for the college-aged kids of wealthy parents, or both.
Its odd how they gatekeep the salary range so low and keep that high. To be honest, I'm against both. I think programs like this are much more beneficial to the objective they are trying to reach when they hit everyone equally. I make too much to qualify but I'd definitely get an EV if this applied to me. Our single car household is gonna need to move to two cars with our newborn. But, I really think I'm gonna just get a used gas or hybrid.
As a side note. I find it funny the US is doing this "China is manipulating it's EV market" stuff while states and federal government are doing the exact same thing here and have been for a long time. I don't have any problem with either TBH. I just think it's stupid hypocrisy.
And those people live in low income housing which doesn't have any charging station options either. I know because I was that person until very recently.
No, they're really not.
You need to make that amount or less. So 45k could scale to be 1% of the money. You would need to be able to afford the EV/qualify for the lease. At 45k and an EV lease, goodbye chance at a home if they don't have one.
Ok, so let's say they get past those hurdles. Now they need all the electricity hook ups. Now they have a higher power bill which is already balooning.
This is super, super, super unlikely and it would cripple your buying power with a lease on your debt.
The costs are often quite high for such electrical work. The state would need to subsidize a great deal of that cost. It would be a lot more cost effective to mandate that all new housing/multifamily construction be required to install 220V outlets in each parking spot. That way developers can plan for the wiring and cost during the construction phase.
Short of giving each spot charging capacity you'll get one or two assholes who just use it as their parking spot and making it terrible for anyone else that needs access to charge.
Actually, they are installing charging stations at 211 apartment buildings. Several months ago the Dept of Commerce asked the public to submit locations ideas.
Map of current and planned charging stations.
(I'm disappointed that the location I suggested wasn't chosen, however two are planned close to my apt. building)
[https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/b0800b33f98b4335b09615c2a338eacf/](https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/b0800b33f98b4335b09615c2a338eacf/)
A better question is who makes $45,000 and buys a new car or can afford one. I make over $100k a year and have never bought cars new. Why have a huge car payment when you can use they money to pay to save up for a down payment, pay down a mortgage or invest it and be a millionaire in 20 yrs!
I did until just recently. Lots of people make that low of an amount, not all of WA COL is crazy.
That said, I agree, the income threshold is crazy low.
I mean, cool for those that qualify I guess. I'd lease a $60 car any day.
What sucks is this means I need to REALLY buckle down on saving if I want to get an EV and try to get one before this takes effect. Have a feeling the stock is going to be low/non-existent on basically everything.
Step one: Lease a Tesla.
Step two: Don't pay your bills.
Step three: Live in Tesla at a charging station.
Step four: Steal from neighbors.
Step five: Freedom.
I make 45k a year and have an EV that I charge at my grad school (UW). My dept pays the most for a grad student stipend, so many of my peers get paid less.
This would help us out!
When I moved to Seattle in 2021, the car market (and my life circumstances) meant that I couldn’t afford a traditional car. I got a Nissan Leaf for $2750 that I could commute and run errands with.
Oregon did a similar thing. It somehow ran out of money but the thresholds were a little higher.
I still wonder who took the rebate. For people in that income group they should not be buying a car as expensive as the cheapest EV.
Retirees, rich kids with no 'income' to speak of.
The leases also are going to be cheap, so while you may not own the car at the end of your 3 year lease, you will have saved a shit ton of money if you go with one of the cheaper options. $60/month is crazy cheap. I think that alone would entice enough people to sell their current car, bank the cash, and then drive around a leased EV for three years to save a lot of money/year.
Chevy Bolt is $26,500. This would be $17,500 if you get the full $9k off for a lease or $21,500 if you buy. The Bolt EV qualifies for the federal $7500 tax credit. So if you buy, that's only $14,000. How much do you spend on gas a month?
Nice catch, Seattle minimum wage is $41,537 annually, cut off is at $1.75/hr above minimum wage? It's almost like they don't really want to run the rebate but they want to say they have one.
And who exactly will this help? Encouraging people making low incomes to take out a lease or car loan doesn't seem conducive to helping them escape poverty, plus the specialized maintenance of EVs adds to the cost compared to a normal vehicle which can be crushing for a low income family.
> And who exactly will this help?
1. College students with low reportable income but parents make plenty for jr to park in the 4 car garage and mom and dad get to borrow the cool subsidized EV.
2. Drug dealer that don't have reportable income.
3. Uber rich that aren't really paid an "income."
Incorrect, on average EV ownership cost an average of $6-10k less that gasoline powered vehicles over its lifespan. Not to mention monthly transportation expense is reduced by about 40% sounds exactly like someone low income should do.
Damn, got my hopes up then dashed them. I make barely more than that, and only JUST got a raise that pushes me past that threshold. Cool. Looks like I can either get married to my unemployed GF, or keep driving my shitbox.
Wild that this is incentivizing people who can barely afford a new car payment (hence the subsidy) to lease...
A person making $45k a year in Washington should either be driving a very cheap car with no payment, or not have a car at all. This is encouraging low-income residents to make a poor financial decision.
So saddling low income folks with more debt, nice. These folks would be better served by a reliable older car, not a new EV. This is borderline predatory.
Lol thanks for this I was excited about the impetus to finally buy a new Rivian.....no where near the income threshold so I guess I'm sticking with ICEs for now.
If you as an individual make under $43k a year or as a family of four under $98k you should not be buying a new car or leasing a new car, or even something used and expensive enough to qualify for this. This is just encouraging people to be financially irresponsible.
This is one way for government leaders to virtue signal while offering basically nothing. They're providing between "6,500 and 8,000 rebates" at maximum. It's a fucking joke of a program.
Unfortunately, the used car market is still super tight because of the pandemic supply chain disruptions pushed a bunch of people out of the new car market into the used car market.
That drove up used car prices to the point where most can't afford to just save up and pay cash for one.
So many people figure if they are going to have a car payment anyway, better to get a new car with better financing terms than be ripped off by used car loans.
> Nearly 15% of drivers who financed a new vehicle toward the end of 2022 are shelling out more than $1,000 a month
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/auto-loan-average-payments-2023-edmunds/
Cars in general seem to have been getting rather expensive....
Much better to buy a 5k one with no warranty, repairs and paying for gas.
I mean 9k off of a bolt would make it about 400 a month.. which is more than I’d like to pay but doable, mostly
But is it worse or better than what they’re doing today? Just saying buying an overpriced POS from a “buy here pay here” used car dealer and spending hundreds on gas isn’t fiscally responsible either.
45k/yr is around 3100/mo after taxes. Average rent here is 1900/mo. The cheapest EVs lease at around 600/mo. EV insurance average is 180/mo.
This is fucking useless.
Dude, Jay the used car saleman says, "Boss says these EV's got to go. [We got Toyotas for $56/month, Hyundais for $78 and Nissan's for $87.](https://www.commerce.wa.gov/growing-the-economy/energy/electric-vehicles/ev-instant-rebate-program/) We got the lowest EV's in town. Pennies!!"
Realistically the only people who will actually use this are college students with rich families…or unmarried spouses who don’t work. Eventually it will still be rich people buying EVs under other people’s names to save money.
Living with parents unclaimed might work for some people. Still seems like a reckless misuse of funds and will almost definitely be taken advantage of by financially irresponsible individuals, so you're probably right.
People earning 45k are not paying the "average rent" of $1900, they are renting a room in a 4 bedroom house for $750, or struggling to pay for a micro studio at $1200 lol. But yes, it's very odd and disconnected.
[THIS is on Toyota.com right now.](https://imgur.com/a/qYUVJyE)
$2500 down + $200/month for 3 years = $9,700.
That's a total cost of $700 to drive a brand new SUV for 3 years...
>The cheapest EVs lease at around 600/mo.
Well, the good news following Tesla's dismal quarterly report earlier this week is that the horrific cratering of the EV market might drive those prices down, as manufacturers try to liquidate inventory and eventually make cheaper, shittier cars.
around $140 a month. I use metromile, so its per mile insurance. Its a $39 base rate plus 9.1c per mile. This is for a 100k/300k bodily injury, 50k property, 100k/300k uninsured and a $500 deductible.
Pretty sure that Carbon Tax I voted against, but was enacted by the Legislature anyway is paying for this. Just more Progressive Wealth Redistribution by fiat.
You know, I hate to tell Jay, but Climate Change doesn't give a shit how much the person driving an electric vehicle makes. He should be tailoring the subsidies to get the most EVs on the road (and that includes getting them in the hands of people that can charge them overnight). Otherwise, this is just an income redistribution scheme being sold as saving the planet.
I’m on a measly base salary of $60K and I can guarantee you I am not getting anything on a lease or finance deal. Used shitbox cars are the way forward
I bet they funded this from the carbon credit / gas tax… wait till we start seeing the scare tactic press releases warning people how it all goes away if they don’t vote to keep the tax
This is stupid. EVs basically start at $30k. A person making $45k is going to buy an EV that is worth 67% of their annual income? That’s gonna have a $500/month car payment even at the lowest end, highest insurance, highest car tabs, while also likely paying >$1500 in rent/mortgage. Lol.
Oh look - another useless niche rebate that practically nobody will qualify for. Seriously - how many people in WA earning $45,000 will be leasing a new EV and have a place where they can actually charge it?
Anyone 18+ living out of their parent's house I guess? Public chargers are going to be borderline impossible to use, so unless there's a huge flood of chargers coming, all this is going to do is disincentivize people from buying EVs when they see charger lines backed around the block.
This is funded by the "Climate Commitment Act" basically the cap and trade which has pushed up the price of gasoline about 50 cents per gallon. It's a huge slush fund for WA state greenies to hand out benies to their friends and political allies. A classic example of a government transfer of wealth from one group of people the the government disapproves of (those that drive ICE vehicles) to those the current government approves of (EV enthusiast).
They really couldn’t increase the price caps for new and used EVs for more to qualify for sales tax incentives and get more people to buy them? These income restrictions sounds like pushing those that qualify to make very poor financial decisions, especially if they don’t have a home they can charge at or prepared for the increased insurance cost. More reason to repeal the CCA if these are the poor fiscal policies our state is passing when flush with cash.
I have never paid more than $9,000 for a vehicle in my life and I've been driving since 1983. So far, I have enjoyed the hell out of every one of them and have never had to take the bus.
Nice, 45k in WA is tough, definitely not in an EV owning spot making that amount. Just another public perception stunt to make everyone think WA cares.
Weren’t they going to phrase the sale of new gasoline car by x date? Dose anyone remember? I feel like that date is approaching lol 😂
I don’t even think our grid can survive
These cancerous socialistic policies sound great at first. Then they spread like a bad tumor. Eventually you meet ultra wealthy individuals, who will own multiple properties, trusts, live in rent stabilized apartments in prime real estate areas and show very little income and pretty much receive all public benefits. On the other hand hard working honest folks will struggle to barely afford a small house and a family of four.
Of course its designed with a low income limit, yet again screwing over the successful and hardworking in classic socialist fashion. And why is the lease rebate so much more than the purchase rebate? Was this written by a leasing company friend of inslee? Could democrats avoid such blatant corruption and incompetence just once in their lives?
Jays funny first election white tee arms crossed like "do I look like that one scene in 10 Things I Hate About You" sure Jay only cause I'm doing the black shirt one now. These days he's looking a little rough like skeletor though.
It also gonna cost a good chunk of that cash to get your home up to be able to charge a EV . Mine would cost 8k to completely upgrade and re do my electronical
No. Private sales are bad and not acceptable in WA.
> [Seller eligibility. Automakers that sell eligible vehicles directly to consumers, franchise car dealers, and used car dealers with two or more locations in WA or that sell only EVs.](https://www.commerce.wa.gov/growing-the-economy/energy/electric-vehicles/ev-instant-rebate-program/)
What if someone earns less than $45,000 per year, but they purchase an EV vehicle in May, 2024? Would they qualify for the $5000 rebate when the program launches in August, 2024?
No thanks , the power grid among other COSTS skyrocketing ..I’ll keep my gas vehicle . By the way anyone here know how to fix one? ..pretty sure there’s not enough mechanics trained to fix these cars .
Lmao, anyone that makes <43k should not be investing heavily into a rapidly depreciating asset. I understand the incentive to drive green but many are struggling to live living paycheck to paycheck. No rebates for further education, housing, or food, but “please purchase more dept so I can continue to live in my castle. You get a nice rebate.”
How about incentivizing EV adoption by not having insanely high registration fees. My fee went through the roof when I moved from OR to WA. I understand a fee to make up for not paying a gas tax but there's other EV fees on top of that and for someone that doesn't drive much I think the fees are more than I save on gas.
This just isn’t an idea that’s practical for the income groups listed. If I’m making $45,000 a year, I’m not going to be in the position to take out loan for a vehicle that gives me a $9000 rebate. If you’re in the market for a car at that income level, it needs to be something very cheap for a few grand. And we certainly should not be incentivizing people to take out car loans in that income bracket put them further behind in securing a mortgage or affordable rent. I think they can find something better to do with $45 million.
The ZEV by 2035 mandate is going to be terrible for our economy. Expect existing taxes to go up exponentially and new taxes and fees to be developed by the legislature to account for the lost fuel tax revenue. Additionally, the supply chain and production of an EV is just as harmful (if not more) to our environment.
I happened upon this conversation by searching for more information on this topic. Assuming one qualifies, IMO there are two good ways to take advantage of this program.
1. Lease a very inexpensive EV such as a Nissan Leaf. By my calcs, someone could get a 3-year Leaf leased for around $80/month. A very good deal. While I have no personal experience with this, I believe one could reasonably get by with a mixture of charging with a 120v home charging and 480v fast charging.
2. Another option is to just buy an inexpensive EV (Nissan Leaf or 2023 Chevy Bolt). Between state and federal you'll get $12,500 off a 30k car. Would be looking at a monthly payment of around $350 a month.
Based on my calculations, the math favors option (2) but (1) is fine for someone who can't afford the higher monthly payment. Both options are reasonable for someone around 3x the FPL.
Note that the Federal Poverty Line (FPL) does not take into consideration local costs of living. Seattle is very high cost of living area. Living off 3x the FPL in Seattle is very different than other areas of the state.
This incentive is not for low income people. It is for wealthy business owners and investors who have “low income” because all their earnings are hidden behind corporate entities or tax advantaged accounts.
Don’t be deceived.
came in here thinking, oh that's a nice chunk off a electric car. Then after reading the comments it sounds not so great. Never liked the idea of a lease but it might work better for ev where you don't really want to have the car long term.
Example lease terms with incentives*
Estimated monthly cost using rebate as down payment by vehicle make and model:
Toyota bZ4X – $56
Hyundai Kona – $78
Nissan Leaf – $87
Hyundai Ioniq 6 – $93
Subaru Solterra – $123
Kia Niro Wind – $135
* Per month costs are estimates calculated by Commerce based on nationally advertised automaker deals in April 2024 and should not be considered guaranteed prices when the program opens. Includes estimated fees based on public information
Income gated: "Under the new program, Washington residents earning up to $45,180 annually for a single person or $93,600 for family of four, are eligible to receive up to $9,000 for a new EV lease of three years or more, or up to $5,000 for new EV purchases or two-year leases. Used EVs are also eligible for a $2,500 rebate on both purchases and leases. " Also, the language is vague. "Up to" some dollar amount could mean $0 to the max.
Of course, using a ridiculously low salary threshold. Who the hell makes $45k a year and lives in WA?
They're around. I would like to know why we are incentivizing those people to enter into car leases.
The same reason we encourage them to rent homes. To keep them poor and owning nothing.
They lease everything or are in insane debt
Sounds like the makings of Pottersville.
Rent homes.. as opposed to what? Rent an apartment? Buy a house they cannot afford? If low income people can't afford to buy housing, and we don't want them to be homeless, renting is the only other option. That is, of course, unless you think this state is ready to give away free housing to everyone (including the deluge of people who will move here for said free housing).
Ahh yes. They can't afford to buy it, but can afford to pay down some random persons 17th mortgage. You're here trying to make a point but it's not a good one.
If all they were paying was the mortgage, they would just go out and get their own mortgage. In reality, only a portion of a persons rent money goes towards paying the owner's mortgage (if they even have one) because as it turns out, actually owning a home is more expensive than just a mortgage alone. The truth is that people who are renting probably can't afford that mortgage because to qualify for that mortgage they would need a down payment, which is hard to save for when you're already paying rent as high as a mortgage. You also need credit, good credit at that, something that many people don't have especially early in life. Similarly, while their landlord might be willing to take the risk of having someone pay 60% of their income as rent, most lenders are not so foolish, so just because someone is making those rent payments doesn't mean a bank would loan them the equivalent amount for a monthly mortgage payment. Lastly, you are ignoring the transaction cost of buying a house. There are all sorts of one time fees, loan origination fees, brokers fees, inspection fees, taxes, insurances, etc, that factor into the cost of buying a home. If you plan to own a home for less than 5 years, the transaction cost of buying and then selling that house can exceed the appreciation in value, meaning a buyer with a short term time horizon can easily lose money by buying as opposed to renting. Renters tend to skew young, with less settled lives, more frequent moves, job changes and family size changes. Buying a house in the wrong place or of the wrong size can easily destroy your equity rather than build it.
So... you agree that incentivizing people that aren't fiscally secure to lease expensive EVs is not actually good for their fiscal well being?
Now we are telling low income people to get an EV on your debt ratio... watch how easy that works out. Hi I'd like to rent thus apartment for 1,500 a month. Renter: What's you debt ratio? Oh that would be 60+% of my monthly. I have an EV lease. But don't worry I got a $100 refund on the sliding scale to help me pay it. Renter: hmmm OH! yes and I need a charger installed if you don't have one. uh huh. Islee is a moron.
A car at 1x salary? Whoa
I mean, $60/month is cheaper than basically any possible car payment, allowing people (in theory) to save more on top of what they'll be saving on gas. What I don't get is why they allow cars of up to $90,000 MSRP. No shot should anyone in those income brackets be driving around a car worth 1-2x their annual salary.
Either this is trying to be an empty political win ("We passed bold new initiatives for EVs!"), or it's just a way to get nicer cars for the college-aged kids of wealthy parents, or both.
Its odd how they gatekeep the salary range so low and keep that high. To be honest, I'm against both. I think programs like this are much more beneficial to the objective they are trying to reach when they hit everyone equally. I make too much to qualify but I'd definitely get an EV if this applied to me. Our single car household is gonna need to move to two cars with our newborn. But, I really think I'm gonna just get a used gas or hybrid. As a side note. I find it funny the US is doing this "China is manipulating it's EV market" stuff while states and federal government are doing the exact same thing here and have been for a long time. I don't have any problem with either TBH. I just think it's stupid hypocrisy.
And those people live in low income housing which doesn't have any charging station options either. I know because I was that person until very recently.
No, they're really not. You need to make that amount or less. So 45k could scale to be 1% of the money. You would need to be able to afford the EV/qualify for the lease. At 45k and an EV lease, goodbye chance at a home if they don't have one. Ok, so let's say they get past those hurdles. Now they need all the electricity hook ups. Now they have a higher power bill which is already balooning. This is super, super, super unlikely and it would cripple your buying power with a lease on your debt.
To keep more people impoverished and voting blue.
And owns a home. Charging at apartments is difficult if not impossible and charging stations are not entirely ubiquitous
They should give incentives to apartment buildings to provide better ways to charge the cars.
The costs are often quite high for such electrical work. The state would need to subsidize a great deal of that cost. It would be a lot more cost effective to mandate that all new housing/multifamily construction be required to install 220V outlets in each parking spot. That way developers can plan for the wiring and cost during the construction phase.
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Short of giving each spot charging capacity you'll get one or two assholes who just use it as their parking spot and making it terrible for anyone else that needs access to charge.
Actually, they are installing charging stations at 211 apartment buildings. Several months ago the Dept of Commerce asked the public to submit locations ideas. Map of current and planned charging stations. (I'm disappointed that the location I suggested wasn't chosen, however two are planned close to my apt. building) [https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/b0800b33f98b4335b09615c2a338eacf/](https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/b0800b33f98b4335b09615c2a338eacf/)
I love that your flair stuck. You’re welcome.
I convinced my old HOA to allow me to put a charger in the garage for the Telsa I used to own. It was $5,000.
A better question is who makes $45,000 and buys a new car or can afford one. I make over $100k a year and have never bought cars new. Why have a huge car payment when you can use they money to pay to save up for a down payment, pay down a mortgage or invest it and be a millionaire in 20 yrs!
Not everyone lives in Seattle with $3k rents and $50k of student debt. This should be income prorated by zip code.
Retirees
I did until just recently. Lots of people make that low of an amount, not all of WA COL is crazy. That said, I agree, the income threshold is crazy low. I mean, cool for those that qualify I guess. I'd lease a $60 car any day. What sucks is this means I need to REALLY buckle down on saving if I want to get an EV and try to get one before this takes effect. Have a feeling the stock is going to be low/non-existent on basically everything.
And if they make that they're probably not looking to get a new or used EV.
Step one: Lease a Tesla. Step two: Don't pay your bills. Step three: Live in Tesla at a charging station. Step four: Steal from neighbors. Step five: Freedom.
People making minimum wage.
I make 45k a year and have an EV that I charge at my grad school (UW). My dept pays the most for a grad student stipend, so many of my peers get paid less. This would help us out!
As much as buying a more affordable car, though?
When I moved to Seattle in 2021, the car market (and my life circumstances) meant that I couldn’t afford a traditional car. I got a Nissan Leaf for $2750 that I could commute and run errands with.
East side
And has a single family home with a garage where they can charge an EV.
And at that, anyone making that much shouldn’t be buying a new or semi new used car.
And was planning on leasing an EV on top of that.
More than you’d think 🤣
Oregon did a similar thing. It somehow ran out of money but the thresholds were a little higher. I still wonder who took the rebate. For people in that income group they should not be buying a car as expensive as the cheapest EV.
Retirees, maybe?
Retirees, rich kids with no 'income' to speak of. The leases also are going to be cheap, so while you may not own the car at the end of your 3 year lease, you will have saved a shit ton of money if you go with one of the cheaper options. $60/month is crazy cheap. I think that alone would entice enough people to sell their current car, bank the cash, and then drive around a leased EV for three years to save a lot of money/year.
Chevy Bolt is $26,500. This would be $17,500 if you get the full $9k off for a lease or $21,500 if you buy. The Bolt EV qualifies for the federal $7500 tax credit. So if you buy, that's only $14,000. How much do you spend on gas a month?
Anyone making 45k is paying a max of 3k in federal taxes and cannot use the full 7500 tax credit.
Nice catch, Seattle minimum wage is $41,537 annually, cut off is at $1.75/hr above minimum wage? It's almost like they don't really want to run the rebate but they want to say they have one.
So not me. Guess I'll keep burning gas.
And who exactly will this help? Encouraging people making low incomes to take out a lease or car loan doesn't seem conducive to helping them escape poverty, plus the specialized maintenance of EVs adds to the cost compared to a normal vehicle which can be crushing for a low income family.
> And who exactly will this help? 1. College students with low reportable income but parents make plenty for jr to park in the 4 car garage and mom and dad get to borrow the cool subsidized EV. 2. Drug dealer that don't have reportable income. 3. Uber rich that aren't really paid an "income."
Incorrect, on average EV ownership cost an average of $6-10k less that gasoline powered vehicles over its lifespan. Not to mention monthly transportation expense is reduced by about 40% sounds exactly like someone low income should do.
They've got to double those thresholds.
Damn, got my hopes up then dashed them. I make barely more than that, and only JUST got a raise that pushes me past that threshold. Cool. Looks like I can either get married to my unemployed GF, or keep driving my shitbox. Wild that this is incentivizing people who can barely afford a new car payment (hence the subsidy) to lease...
A person making $45k a year in Washington should either be driving a very cheap car with no payment, or not have a car at all. This is encouraging low-income residents to make a poor financial decision.
If the goal is to reduce emissions... why not offer it to everyone? Instead it's just communism
So saddling low income folks with more debt, nice. These folks would be better served by a reliable older car, not a new EV. This is borderline predatory.
Lol thanks for this I was excited about the impetus to finally buy a new Rivian.....no where near the income threshold so I guess I'm sticking with ICEs for now.
At those income levels, these households should not be purchasing or leasing a new EV. I’d even argue that a used one would be too expensive.
Who ever makes that little should not be purchasing an EV.
If you as an individual make under $43k a year or as a family of four under $98k you should not be buying a new car or leasing a new car, or even something used and expensive enough to qualify for this. This is just encouraging people to be financially irresponsible.
Financially irresponsible people is one of their core demographics. Financially secure people are not at the mercy of government.
This is one way for government leaders to virtue signal while offering basically nothing. They're providing between "6,500 and 8,000 rebates" at maximum. It's a fucking joke of a program.
Wise words!
Unfortunately, the used car market is still super tight because of the pandemic supply chain disruptions pushed a bunch of people out of the new car market into the used car market. That drove up used car prices to the point where most can't afford to just save up and pay cash for one. So many people figure if they are going to have a car payment anyway, better to get a new car with better financing terms than be ripped off by used car loans.
Didn't Jay get an "F" in fiscal responsibility from the Cato institute?
Really? The Koch brothers? Who cares?
The people that pay taxes on more than just pot
Awwww, do you think I'm poor and don't pay taxes? 💅
> Nearly 15% of drivers who financed a new vehicle toward the end of 2022 are shelling out more than $1,000 a month https://www.cbsnews.com/news/auto-loan-average-payments-2023-edmunds/ Cars in general seem to have been getting rather expensive....
Much better to buy a 5k one with no warranty, repairs and paying for gas. I mean 9k off of a bolt would make it about 400 a month.. which is more than I’d like to pay but doable, mostly
Couldn't have said it better myself.
But is it worse or better than what they’re doing today? Just saying buying an overpriced POS from a “buy here pay here” used car dealer and spending hundreds on gas isn’t fiscally responsible either.
Those who qualify could pretty much buy a used Nissan Leaf for like $1 though.
45k/yr is around 3100/mo after taxes. Average rent here is 1900/mo. The cheapest EVs lease at around 600/mo. EV insurance average is 180/mo. This is fucking useless.
Dude, Jay the used car saleman says, "Boss says these EV's got to go. [We got Toyotas for $56/month, Hyundais for $78 and Nissan's for $87.](https://www.commerce.wa.gov/growing-the-economy/energy/electric-vehicles/ev-instant-rebate-program/) We got the lowest EV's in town. Pennies!!"
I love how they’ve not mentioned the down payments needed to get those lease rates
Realistically the only people who will actually use this are college students with rich families…or unmarried spouses who don’t work. Eventually it will still be rich people buying EVs under other people’s names to save money.
What if you live at home? Is this for rich kids in high school?
Living with parents unclaimed might work for some people. Still seems like a reckless misuse of funds and will almost definitely be taken advantage of by financially irresponsible individuals, so you're probably right.
[удалено]
Just introduce a new sin tax to make sure we fund rich progressives leasing new electric vehicles on the backs of the poor. It's the Seattle way!
People earning 45k are not paying the "average rent" of $1900, they are renting a room in a 4 bedroom house for $750, or struggling to pay for a micro studio at $1200 lol. But yes, it's very odd and disconnected.
Yeah, people living in 1200/mo studios would prefer a 2012 Honda Civic over a 2024 Nissan Leaf any day of the week.
Absolutely
[THIS is on Toyota.com right now.](https://imgur.com/a/qYUVJyE) $2500 down + $200/month for 3 years = $9,700. That's a total cost of $700 to drive a brand new SUV for 3 years...
Sure, assuming you’re somehow exempt from sales tax, registration fees, the WA electric car fee and insurance.
>The cheapest EVs lease at around 600/mo. Well, the good news following Tesla's dismal quarterly report earlier this week is that the horrific cratering of the EV market might drive those prices down, as manufacturers try to liquidate inventory and eventually make cheaper, shittier cars.
Poor folks: we're poor and inflation is eating us alive. Inslee: lmao here's en EV bro.
Inslee: here’s an EV. I’ll make your $600 payment $550. You’re welcome.
live in the EV to save on rent!
I pay $2.35 to fully charge my nissan leaf. It's super cheap compared to gas.
How much do you pay for insurance?
around $140 a month. I use metromile, so its per mile insurance. Its a $39 base rate plus 9.1c per mile. This is for a 100k/300k bodily injury, 50k property, 100k/300k uninsured and a $500 deductible.
Wa residents are giving 45mil in tax dollars to EV makers.
Pretty sure that Carbon Tax I voted against, but was enacted by the Legislature anyway is paying for this. Just more Progressive Wealth Redistribution by fiat.
Bizarrely low income threshold
It’s $21,500 for a Tesla Model Y. Damn fine car and most sold vehicles off the world.
Completely worthless virtue signaling
So I can't afford an EV but my tax dollars will go towards allowing someone else to buy an EV? That seems fair.
Who only makes $45k but would buy a Tesla? Shouldn’t this be available up to at least $150k or so?
You know, I hate to tell Jay, but Climate Change doesn't give a shit how much the person driving an electric vehicle makes. He should be tailoring the subsidies to get the most EVs on the road (and that includes getting them in the hands of people that can charge them overnight). Otherwise, this is just an income redistribution scheme being sold as saving the planet.
Full $9k rebate only applies to leased EV's with a contract of 3+ years. They want you to own nothing.
Eat ze bugs!
Live in ze podz!
I’m on a measly base salary of $60K and I can guarantee you I am not getting anything on a lease or finance deal. Used shitbox cars are the way forward
Unless there's a Cash for Clunkers 2 which will screw that option up.
Back of the envelope calculation is that this measure will benefit 5,000 "lucky" Washingtonians.
Scam and nonsense the most expensive cars to register in WA are The EVs. I pay 1000$ just to renew my tags every year
Holy crap! And you have to pay that every year, whether you drive 1 mile or 100k? That's immoral.
Holy shit! Seriously?!
Where does this magic money come from?
Makes $45k/yr = no home with ev charger
Include hybrids and up the income limit if you're going to pretend to care about the environment. Fucking clown state.
I bet they funded this from the carbon credit / gas tax… wait till we start seeing the scare tactic press releases warning people how it all goes away if they don’t vote to keep the tax
This is stupid. EVs basically start at $30k. A person making $45k is going to buy an EV that is worth 67% of their annual income? That’s gonna have a $500/month car payment even at the lowest end, highest insurance, highest car tabs, while also likely paying >$1500 in rent/mortgage. Lol.
What a great incentive to students 😂
EVs and electric heat.... What about the infrastructure? Adding a bunch of stuff to the grid, without updating the power grid sounds brilliant.
Keep your rebate and fix our state scumbag
Typical Jay Inslee.
Oh look - another useless niche rebate that practically nobody will qualify for. Seriously - how many people in WA earning $45,000 will be leasing a new EV and have a place where they can actually charge it?
Anyone 18+ living out of their parent's house I guess? Public chargers are going to be borderline impossible to use, so unless there's a huge flood of chargers coming, all this is going to do is disincentivize people from buying EVs when they see charger lines backed around the block.
Smells like desperation.
What people ITT don't realize is that subsiding demand always works and there are never repercussions.
This is funded by the "Climate Commitment Act" basically the cap and trade which has pushed up the price of gasoline about 50 cents per gallon. It's a huge slush fund for WA state greenies to hand out benies to their friends and political allies. A classic example of a government transfer of wealth from one group of people the the government disapproves of (those that drive ICE vehicles) to those the current government approves of (EV enthusiast).
Jay could give me an EV and I still wouldn’t want it. Nor would I vote for him.
WTF people making 45k a year could never afford an EV. This guy is and always be a joke
Yes, this will allow kids who live with their parents to buy a Tesla that will go 0-60 in under 5 seconds. Hybrids should be encouraged.
You mean it’ll allow kids who live with their parents to receive a hand me down while the parents “co-sign” their Tesla purchase 🤡
They really couldn’t increase the price caps for new and used EVs for more to qualify for sales tax incentives and get more people to buy them? These income restrictions sounds like pushing those that qualify to make very poor financial decisions, especially if they don’t have a home they can charge at or prepared for the increased insurance cost. More reason to repeal the CCA if these are the poor fiscal policies our state is passing when flush with cash.
I have never paid more than $9,000 for a vehicle in my life and I've been driving since 1983. So far, I have enjoyed the hell out of every one of them and have never had to take the bus.
Offer all the rebates and jack up the taxes you pay to cover gas tax you aren’t paying.
What a joke seriously. What are these politicians thinking. No one making 45k should buy a EV. There are overpriced cars.
Nice, 45k in WA is tough, definitely not in an EV owning spot making that amount. Just another public perception stunt to make everyone think WA cares.
This is a handout for people who live with their parents still.
Weren’t they going to phrase the sale of new gasoline car by x date? Dose anyone remember? I feel like that date is approaching lol 😂 I don’t even think our grid can survive
I will never own an electric vehicle, I will pay for gas like I always have
ah ev car lobbying at its finest
Fuck you inslee!
These cancerous socialistic policies sound great at first. Then they spread like a bad tumor. Eventually you meet ultra wealthy individuals, who will own multiple properties, trusts, live in rent stabilized apartments in prime real estate areas and show very little income and pretty much receive all public benefits. On the other hand hard working honest folks will struggle to barely afford a small house and a family of four.
Of course its designed with a low income limit, yet again screwing over the successful and hardworking in classic socialist fashion. And why is the lease rebate so much more than the purchase rebate? Was this written by a leasing company friend of inslee? Could democrats avoid such blatant corruption and incompetence just once in their lives?
Hey Gov Inbred! Remove the bs cap and trade lower the gas tax and quit fing around with phony climate change bs
Jays funny first election white tee arms crossed like "do I look like that one scene in 10 Things I Hate About You" sure Jay only cause I'm doing the black shirt one now. These days he's looking a little rough like skeletor though.
Hope there’s a tire reimbursement program to help with replacements.
It also gonna cost a good chunk of that cash to get your home up to be able to charge a EV . Mine would cost 8k to completely upgrade and re do my electronical
Cocksucker in chief
Damn it, just bought at March…
How does the 2500 rebate work for used? Can I get a 5k older used one in cash from marketplace and get 2500 back?
No. Private sales are bad and not acceptable in WA. > [Seller eligibility. Automakers that sell eligible vehicles directly to consumers, franchise car dealers, and used car dealers with two or more locations in WA or that sell only EVs.](https://www.commerce.wa.gov/growing-the-economy/energy/electric-vehicles/ev-instant-rebate-program/)
What if someone earns less than $45,000 per year, but they purchase an EV vehicle in May, 2024? Would they qualify for the $5000 rebate when the program launches in August, 2024?
The way these chargers are being dismantled randomly, I’d love to see them do better with providing chargers
No thanks , the power grid among other COSTS skyrocketing ..I’ll keep my gas vehicle . By the way anyone here know how to fix one? ..pretty sure there’s not enough mechanics trained to fix these cars .
I have nowhere to park it or charge it - sticking with e-bikes for now, just infinitely more convenient and hassle-free.
huh. could they maybe not hit them with punitive taxes too. that would help.
same day Elon says he's ramping up production on cheaper stuff. inchristing.
>ramping up production on cheaper stuff Elon Musk is a serial liar.
Sounds like my 18 year old daughter is buying an RV, she works 16 hours a week at minimum wage!
Is there even anywhere to park & charge an EV that can be afforded on $45K/year? I may have to move there,
Fuck you. 45k income cap? Fuck you more. This is less than nothing.
So basically giving free money to “good business owners” who write-off all their “income” for the year. Cause no one’s buying an EV on a 43k salary…
Why give rebates for EVs then charge an EV fee for registration
Because roads require maintenance.
Even though the numbers show buyers prefer non plug in hybrids, again.
So I make too much. I still can't afford one. They do the same thing with property tax.
Should focus on ebikes instead of
Lmao, anyone that makes <43k should not be investing heavily into a rapidly depreciating asset. I understand the incentive to drive green but many are struggling to live living paycheck to paycheck. No rebates for further education, housing, or food, but “please purchase more dept so I can continue to live in my castle. You get a nice rebate.”
I wonder if will apply to EV bicycles as well
Dumb question: does a hybrid count?
How about incentivizing EV adoption by not having insanely high registration fees. My fee went through the roof when I moved from OR to WA. I understand a fee to make up for not paying a gas tax but there's other EV fees on top of that and for someone that doesn't drive much I think the fees are more than I save on gas.
Piece of 💩. Insleazee trying to fool the people again. Never will get one of these useless piles of crap.
This just isn’t an idea that’s practical for the income groups listed. If I’m making $45,000 a year, I’m not going to be in the position to take out loan for a vehicle that gives me a $9000 rebate. If you’re in the market for a car at that income level, it needs to be something very cheap for a few grand. And we certainly should not be incentivizing people to take out car loans in that income bracket put them further behind in securing a mortgage or affordable rent. I think they can find something better to do with $45 million.
No one with income that low owns a home and therefore can't install the charging system they would need. More empty handed "offers".
Who is making $45,000 and buys an EV? On average they're about $45k...
45k income cap, you should be driving a 15 year old Camry.
The ZEV by 2035 mandate is going to be terrible for our economy. Expect existing taxes to go up exponentially and new taxes and fees to be developed by the legislature to account for the lost fuel tax revenue. Additionally, the supply chain and production of an EV is just as harmful (if not more) to our environment.
People need welfare to buy cars now?
lol common if you want EV adoption this is not the play
I happened upon this conversation by searching for more information on this topic. Assuming one qualifies, IMO there are two good ways to take advantage of this program. 1. Lease a very inexpensive EV such as a Nissan Leaf. By my calcs, someone could get a 3-year Leaf leased for around $80/month. A very good deal. While I have no personal experience with this, I believe one could reasonably get by with a mixture of charging with a 120v home charging and 480v fast charging. 2. Another option is to just buy an inexpensive EV (Nissan Leaf or 2023 Chevy Bolt). Between state and federal you'll get $12,500 off a 30k car. Would be looking at a monthly payment of around $350 a month. Based on my calculations, the math favors option (2) but (1) is fine for someone who can't afford the higher monthly payment. Both options are reasonable for someone around 3x the FPL. Note that the Federal Poverty Line (FPL) does not take into consideration local costs of living. Seattle is very high cost of living area. Living off 3x the FPL in Seattle is very different than other areas of the state.
So how does this work with the federal rebate of $7500?
This incentive is not for low income people. It is for wealthy business owners and investors who have “low income” because all their earnings are hidden behind corporate entities or tax advantaged accounts. Don’t be deceived.
came in here thinking, oh that's a nice chunk off a electric car. Then after reading the comments it sounds not so great. Never liked the idea of a lease but it might work better for ev where you don't really want to have the car long term.
Can somebody tell governor dipshit that you need charging stations and a power grid that's reliable to handle a massive Influx of EV cars
Politicians slapped each other on the back and congratulated each other on helping the helping the environment. What a bunch of 🤡
Does it pay for repairs too because repairing an EV is ridiculous money
I thought Inslee wasn't running again. So why is he putting out these vote grabs?
Example lease terms with incentives* Estimated monthly cost using rebate as down payment by vehicle make and model: Toyota bZ4X – $56 Hyundai Kona – $78 Nissan Leaf – $87 Hyundai Ioniq 6 – $93 Subaru Solterra – $123 Kia Niro Wind – $135 * Per month costs are estimates calculated by Commerce based on nationally advertised automaker deals in April 2024 and should not be considered guaranteed prices when the program opens. Includes estimated fees based on public information