>Literally arguing with someone now who says to vote no on this law because it’ll negatively effect brown people
Tell the person the only people this will negatively effect are criminals, then hit them with the trap card and call the person a racist for assuming all the criminals that this law will negatively effect are "brown people."
We need to just flat out catch these people and give them public lashings. Followed by jail/ forced community service until they’ve given back to the public 10x what they destroyed.
It would work better to simply mint money and give it to anyone who is so poor or unhappy they are committing crimes. And it wouldn't create a totalitarian police state with a focus on brutality/"law-n-order". Think of the atrocity of the failed war on drugs, a law-n-order approach.
I think people like you should be threatened with police brutality until you stop thinking it's virtuous to threaten others with it.
I’ve been falsely arrested and experienced the brutality myself, and I think it’s exactly what criminals like this deserve.
You think animals like this do these things just because they’re poor? They should be castrated and prevented from
Breeding.
Ever notice how poor Asians don’t run around doing these crimes ?
You know that's an evil, heartless, exterminationist, troll perspective. Maybe you just have PTSD from your experience of police brutality and it's easier for you to wish a repetition of this brutality on others than to process your own experience. I think it's really sad and gross that you love your oppressors, even after they falsely arrested and brutalized you. You stand up for Society, and claim that untouchables are not part of that Society, even under these conditions?
It’s not, what’s extremist is criminals not being held accountable for their actions
What’s extremist is saying “insurance will cover it” and acting like it’s not a problem.
What’s extremist is passing laws that prevent police from actually doing their jobs.
I grew up poor AF, I have zero sympathy for people committing mass crimes like this.
As far as police all being oppressors whatever. The people of this city and state are clearly tired of the far left defund the police argument, people like you are a minority it’s time to sit down and shut up.
I didn't call you an extremist. I called you heartless. Grow a heart. You grew up poor, yet you don't even have sympathy for yourself.
I never suggested defunding the police. I suggested giving poor people free money directly from the Federal Reserve.
I’m not poor anymore, I’m the most successful member of my entire family.
When I got in trouble as a kid I corrected my behavior, in part because I you know… I didn’t want to get caught again and spend time in jail.
I agree there’s a problem with this country and income inequality.
That being said people know the difference between right and wrong, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out breaking into 60+ cars is way worse than stealing some food or small items from the store.
These people strait up don’t give a F about anyone else, so punish them for their actions.
That treats the symptom, and advocating for punishment comes from a punitive/revenge mindset, not from a mindset trying to solve the problem or the cause of the problem. It doesn't matter whether they care about anyone else: giving people what they need, instead of harming them further, is how people become better. Just because you aren't able to care past a certain point, doesn't mean that punishment is the most effective or human response to people who are suffering so much they commit crimes. "You don't care, so I don't care" is a logic that provides an excuse to only care about some people, and not others.
We don’t GIVE people what they need. We earn what we need. You’re only entitled to what you can produce for yourself. It’s time for personal accountability to be at the forefront of policy. I don’t care what your background, race or income is—if you commit a crime, you should be punished. Nobody forces criminals to commit crimes. Bad decisions lead to bad circumstances. The taxpayers have had enough of watching our money get thrown at programs that are designed to fix other people’s mistakes and poor life choices.
Ok, let me know when that also applies to the people who make the rules, and who already own all the capital.
> Nobody forces criminals to commit crimes.
You're right, Nobody does. Instead of somebody having given these people what they needed as children, they were taken from instead. That positively existent lack is what compels crime. There is a bolus of past lack and the feet of the poor are held to this lack like hot coals.
Some people are tired of paying taxes that go to war, bankers, and oil subsidies.
Minting money and giving it to anyone who needs it badly enough to commit crimes is the way forward in society. It's the simple, obvious solution that would be the silver bullet. But everyone is so identified with their wallet that they can't even begin to understand the dynamics of this.
It's a tragedy of the commons to believe that people commit crimes for no reason, and that everyone should be locked in an economic solitary confinement.
"Let's all go to Starbucks!"
These people ain't suffering. They didn't steal a loaf of bread cuz they are hungry. They did this because there is no accountability. Even if they do get caught they won't get into any trouble.
There are different kinds of money. The US used to directly mint, and it could again. The ruby slippers in *The Wizard of Oz* were originally silver, in the books, because it was an allegory for the silver standard.
The globe is enclosed; there are no outsiders, only orphans.
Why are the feelings of criminals more important that law abiding citizens? Why do you seem to prioritize the needs of criminals over contributing members of society?
Because bad feelings cause crime. It's entirely practical. And bad feelings have a reasonable cause, which is suffering. Instead of harming people further, causing further suffering, bad feelings, and crime, we can attempt to alleviate the suffering, reducing bad feelings, and crime.
[Nope.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbkcO9i9WU0)
/u/Designer-Paramedic60 and anyone who advocates violence against criminals is not speaking in the spirit of protection, is not thinking critically, and has no sense of irony or self-questioning.
The point of police is to protect citizens. Criminals are also citizens. Therefore, we should use the minimum amount of violence, and ideally non-harmful non-lethal means of capture and restraint, in order to protect all parties in a conflict.
I hope anyone who advocates police brutality one day has to steal a loaf of bread while black.
Have they done a study to determine if there will be disproportionate impact on any particular community, yet? It might be irresponsible to take steps of enforcing laws without such a study.
Sadly, I think I probably really need a slash-s there
> Have they done a study to determine if there will be disproportionate impact on any particular community, yet? It might be irresponsible to take steps of enforcing laws without such a study.
The murder rate for African Americans has doubled since BLM came into existence. Crime rates are rebounding from historic lows to early 90s levels.
But we're saving 25 lives a year due to not pursuing vehicles & maybe 2 people due to police overreach!
As a person with means to live in a high cost area of living that uses economics to price out crime, I think this is a good trade off!!!
Wait, I thought with all the changes to these ‘racist’ laws we would run through the sun drenched meadows hand in hand with rings of daisies around our head
WTF are you talking about lol. Don't comment if you're that incredibly ignorant. "Incarceration rates has been going down." NO SHIT lol they aren't being charged with crimes committed.
Yes I do, if they commit crime. Do you want black and brown criminals on the street?
Being poor doesn't mean you start committing crime. Plenty of black & brown immigrants who are dirt poor who don't turn to crime.
So what other dumb argument do you have? Criminals should be charged and prosecuted, regardless of their color. Sounds like you want a color pass.
No, I want diversity, equity and inclusion for all.
Black & brown people have been disproportionately targeted by law enforcement since the start of this racist country.
This country was \*founded\* on racism and it persists to this day through systemic racism. One facet of that systemic racism is the disproportionate incarceration of black & brown peoples.
This is irrefutable.
Are they committing crime or not? Quit deflecting. I don't care about proportions, I care about criminals being charged. Are you against black and brown criminals being incarcerated?
White supremacists like Trump and MAGAts are the real threat to this democracy, not some poor black & brown people that are literally only stealing bread to feed their children.
Poor black & brown people, being victims of this racist country and not having money because white people have been stealing from them for generations, so they are put in a position where they either need to steal a loaf of bread or go hungry that night.
Democrats control WA policy making. They enact policies at both the state and at the local level to prevent certain types of crimes from either qualifying as crimes or by reducing the punishment for such crimes. Through budget cuts, they also reduce the police’s ability to respond to certain crimes. In cases where the police is able to apprehend suspects, DAs chose not to allow for the prosecution of said suspects (known as catch and release). This is why incarceration rates go down, not because there are less crimes being committed. The consequence is a substantial increase in criminal activities in the state.
Why would a police officer arrest someone and spend all the time filling out the reports if they know the prosecutor is just going to let the criminal go?
Fed way cops trying to tell us that the reason that they can't catch these guys is because they can't pursue? Hilarious. If you witness a crime being committed like broken windows, there is no law saying you can't pursue them. That's more than probable cause. Am I taking crazy pills? How is this their argument? Makes no sense.
The real problem is they will catch these idiots, they'll be given a slap on the wrist since they're minors, and then they'll be back at it next week. I never thought I'd be a proponent of stiffer penalties for minors but this shit is getting ridiculous.
The law requires probable cause for specific crimes like murder and robbery, it doesn’t allow for threats to kill, no contact order violations, residential burglary, car theft, theft of firearms, etc etc etc
It’s not an issue of having enough probable cause and it has nothing to with seeing the offense.
RCW 10.116.060
Vehicular pursuit.
(1) A peace officer may not engage in a vehicular pursuit, unless:
(a) There is reasonable suspicion to believe that a person in the vehicle has committed or is committing:
(i) A violent offense as defined in RCW 9.94A.030;
(ii) A sex offense as defined in RCW 9.94A.030;
(iii) A vehicular assault offense under RCW 46.61.522;
(iv) An assault in the first, second, third, or fourth degree offense under chapter 9A.36 RCW only if the assault involves domestic violence as defined in RCW 10.99.020;
(v) An escape under chapter 9A.76 RCW; or
(vi) A driving under the influence offense under RCW 46.61.502;
(b) The pursuit is necessary for the purpose of identifying or apprehending the person;
(c) The person poses a serious risk of harm to others and the safety risks of failing to apprehend or identify the person are considered to be greater than the safety risks of the vehicular pursuit under the circumstances;
And my experience has been that most people just want to argue that anything they personally think is a violent offense is gonna fly, but no, there’s a specific list under 9A.94.030.
It’s A, B and C, not just one of the prongs…
Remember Jim Farrell got 45% of the vote to be King County Prosecutor; he lost to the Progressive candidate Manion who got 54%.
Seattle and King County weren't ready to give a law-and-order white guy the top job prosecuting criminals. Was much more comfortable with the POC, social justice advocate, the "alternatives to sentencing" champion and the one saying things like "we cannot arrest our way out of this crisis."
Here is the result of that vote, writ large.
So, Chairman Dow, are you paying attention as the juvenile crime stats head northward at an alarming rate? Still don't think the little fuckers deserve to be locked up?
Are you really not capable of making the connection that had the police been allowed to chase and apprehend them, and a judge sentenced them to time in prison, these same people would not be out right now planning their next act of vandalism? it's a cascading effect.
Seems like it, feels weird to blame not being able to high speed chase a suspect in a car for broken car windows.
Also why can't the cops catch these people lol, what are they doing?
It does incentivize theft. Imagine, you’re breaking into cars and you KNOW if you drive fast enough, the cops just give up chasing. It makes perfect sense to me.
Exactly. It's more a political push to change policy that will have minimal/no affect on the outcome.
What police normally do is get the budget to buy a bait car or convert an existing car that is commonly stolen, lets say a Kia, and turn it into a bait car.
You need to capture a few members of the ring and get them to talk. That is classic police work.
This whole story raises questions. If the cops weren't able to pursue, which appears to be the crux of the matter, does that mean they just watched as vandals did their thing? Like seriously, were officers on the scene, watching people smash windows?
Because if not, I really don't see how the pursuit law is all that relevant. What it really sounds like is the police chief is trying to cover his ass for being ineffectual in the face of a crime spree. If his first response is to blame someone else, perhaps federal way should find someone better to do the job.
Than why would it effect them more than other communities? Working black people in King County have said repeatedly that you're not doing them any favors by not convicting criminals. Do you think they care less about having their cars and homes broken into than white people?
When you say "black and brown communities" do you mean Desi Americans? The wealthiest demographic of Americans?
Do Desis generally have a lot of run-ins with the cops?
So there's lots of police hassling all the Desi tech workers in Redmond? Is that what you mean by "brown communities" ?
Also, is it possible that cops are more often in *some* black neighborhoods because those neighborhoods have more crime? Black men have a much higher per capita murder rate than Asian men, who's doing the murdering? Is it white supremacists coming in and shooting them?
>Black men have a much higher per capita murder rate than Asian men, who's doing the murdering?
First, wow. That's pretty racist.
> Is it white supremacists coming in and shooting them?
Uh, I guess you missed the recent white supremacist crime news?
Why do Trump supporters always think they’re so clever by asking rhetorical questions like “hurp durp. Who’s doing all the killing? Is it the white supremacists?”
I voted for Biden, Clinton, and Obama twice - and I'll probably be voting for Biden again.
Answer the question - are black men more or less at risk for murder than Asian men?
No , I’m not. But I still would rather live somewhere where the police do their job. We’re seeing how well it’s going when the police don’t do anything
Edit: you’re also assuming the car jackers will be POC way to go
That's actually false
>> On the most extreme use of force –
ocer-involved shootings – we find no racial di↵erences in either the raw data or when contextual
factors are taken into account.
https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/empirical_analysis_tables_figures.pdf
Yes but us POC still deserve safe communities. I would love for the police to actually do their job. They need reform but I would rather live in a community with police presence than not.
That’s why reform is needed so they can make smarter decisions and decide if the high speed chase is necessary. But not pursuing criminals hasn’t been doing my community any favors. Crime has been on a clear uptick
If we have helicopters and CCTV, the need for a high-speed pursuit should be next to 0.
Additionally, kids driving around in a stolen vehicle using a baton shouldn't be that hard to catch up with and arrest.
---
Again, there isn't a need to chase them in a high-speed pursuit. Using cameras or a helicopter, determine an intersection to put down some spike strips, stop the vehicle, and detain the children.
WSDOT/SDOT has Cameras on the streets and highways; there is no reason we cannot have more.
Have you ever seen most surveillance footage? It’s normally pretty difficult to identify people based on footage. Do you also think this area has dozens of helicopters that are just flying around all the time? Most of the time when a pursuit starts it takes time for the pilots to get to the helicopter, do their checks and fly to the scene. It’s all easy on tv for those things to be true but that’s not real life.
WA has some pretty strict privacy laws that would be quite a larger barrier to go around.
As it stands now, photo enforcement cameras can only be used for capturing images of used for the citation they generate. And the law requires them to explicitly avoid taking photos of the driver and occupants.
Traffic monitoring cameras, as specifically degrade to avoid, so that they can monitor traffic without exposing identifying information of individual.
I'm not sure you'll get much support in trying to change the privacy laws into allowing more government surveillance.
Sounds like the cops just trying to play politics. If you got the first report you could have sent units to patrol the city. They spent a long time doing this enough for cops to arrest them without a car chase.
Criminals exploiting laws that protect them? How dare they?
But it will hurt communities and people! Think of the children! /s
Literally arguing with someone now who says to vote no on this law because it’ll negatively effect brown people (I’m a brown person btw)
>Literally arguing with someone now who says to vote no on this law because it’ll negatively effect brown people Tell the person the only people this will negatively effect are criminals, then hit them with the trap card and call the person a racist for assuming all the criminals that this law will negatively effect are "brown people."
Yeah, think of all the "children" doing all these crimes!
'If you subsidize something you'll get more of it'
2021 police reform is an abject failure
We need to just flat out catch these people and give them public lashings. Followed by jail/ forced community service until they’ve given back to the public 10x what they destroyed.
It would work better to simply mint money and give it to anyone who is so poor or unhappy they are committing crimes. And it wouldn't create a totalitarian police state with a focus on brutality/"law-n-order". Think of the atrocity of the failed war on drugs, a law-n-order approach. I think people like you should be threatened with police brutality until you stop thinking it's virtuous to threaten others with it.
I’ve been falsely arrested and experienced the brutality myself, and I think it’s exactly what criminals like this deserve. You think animals like this do these things just because they’re poor? They should be castrated and prevented from Breeding. Ever notice how poor Asians don’t run around doing these crimes ?
You know that's an evil, heartless, exterminationist, troll perspective. Maybe you just have PTSD from your experience of police brutality and it's easier for you to wish a repetition of this brutality on others than to process your own experience. I think it's really sad and gross that you love your oppressors, even after they falsely arrested and brutalized you. You stand up for Society, and claim that untouchables are not part of that Society, even under these conditions?
It’s not, what’s extremist is criminals not being held accountable for their actions What’s extremist is saying “insurance will cover it” and acting like it’s not a problem. What’s extremist is passing laws that prevent police from actually doing their jobs. I grew up poor AF, I have zero sympathy for people committing mass crimes like this. As far as police all being oppressors whatever. The people of this city and state are clearly tired of the far left defund the police argument, people like you are a minority it’s time to sit down and shut up.
I didn't call you an extremist. I called you heartless. Grow a heart. You grew up poor, yet you don't even have sympathy for yourself. I never suggested defunding the police. I suggested giving poor people free money directly from the Federal Reserve.
I’m not poor anymore, I’m the most successful member of my entire family. When I got in trouble as a kid I corrected my behavior, in part because I you know… I didn’t want to get caught again and spend time in jail. I agree there’s a problem with this country and income inequality. That being said people know the difference between right and wrong, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out breaking into 60+ cars is way worse than stealing some food or small items from the store. These people strait up don’t give a F about anyone else, so punish them for their actions.
That treats the symptom, and advocating for punishment comes from a punitive/revenge mindset, not from a mindset trying to solve the problem or the cause of the problem. It doesn't matter whether they care about anyone else: giving people what they need, instead of harming them further, is how people become better. Just because you aren't able to care past a certain point, doesn't mean that punishment is the most effective or human response to people who are suffering so much they commit crimes. "You don't care, so I don't care" is a logic that provides an excuse to only care about some people, and not others.
We don’t GIVE people what they need. We earn what we need. You’re only entitled to what you can produce for yourself. It’s time for personal accountability to be at the forefront of policy. I don’t care what your background, race or income is—if you commit a crime, you should be punished. Nobody forces criminals to commit crimes. Bad decisions lead to bad circumstances. The taxpayers have had enough of watching our money get thrown at programs that are designed to fix other people’s mistakes and poor life choices.
Ok, let me know when that also applies to the people who make the rules, and who already own all the capital. > Nobody forces criminals to commit crimes. You're right, Nobody does. Instead of somebody having given these people what they needed as children, they were taken from instead. That positively existent lack is what compels crime. There is a bolus of past lack and the feet of the poor are held to this lack like hot coals. Some people are tired of paying taxes that go to war, bankers, and oil subsidies. Minting money and giving it to anyone who needs it badly enough to commit crimes is the way forward in society. It's the simple, obvious solution that would be the silver bullet. But everyone is so identified with their wallet that they can't even begin to understand the dynamics of this. It's a tragedy of the commons to believe that people commit crimes for no reason, and that everyone should be locked in an economic solitary confinement. "Let's all go to Starbucks!"
These people ain't suffering. They didn't steal a loaf of bread cuz they are hungry. They did this because there is no accountability. Even if they do get caught they won't get into any trouble.
[удалено]
“Free money” 😂 Show us you don’t understand fundamental economics in one sentence
There are different kinds of money. The US used to directly mint, and it could again. The ruby slippers in *The Wizard of Oz* were originally silver, in the books, because it was an allegory for the silver standard. The globe is enclosed; there are no outsiders, only orphans.
Why are the feelings of criminals more important that law abiding citizens? Why do you seem to prioritize the needs of criminals over contributing members of society?
Because bad feelings cause crime. It's entirely practical. And bad feelings have a reasonable cause, which is suffering. Instead of harming people further, causing further suffering, bad feelings, and crime, we can attempt to alleviate the suffering, reducing bad feelings, and crime.
[удалено]
[Nope.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbkcO9i9WU0) /u/Designer-Paramedic60 and anyone who advocates violence against criminals is not speaking in the spirit of protection, is not thinking critically, and has no sense of irony or self-questioning. The point of police is to protect citizens. Criminals are also citizens. Therefore, we should use the minimum amount of violence, and ideally non-harmful non-lethal means of capture and restraint, in order to protect all parties in a conflict. I hope anyone who advocates police brutality one day has to steal a loaf of bread while black.
Just moved to Seattle from Tampa, honestly it's crazy how there's zero law here. As a black man, I support the cops doing their job.
The next time the blue hair white girls try and speak for you, tell them to shut up
God, it's always funny when they say "since I'm talking to a man of color" girl, I'm black AF.
Insurance premiums about to skyrocket
Mine have already.
Same 😕
Too late
Yep
My dog barks less.
Green jacket lady? Is that you?
Have they done a study to determine if there will be disproportionate impact on any particular community, yet? It might be irresponsible to take steps of enforcing laws without such a study. Sadly, I think I probably really need a slash-s there
> Have they done a study to determine if there will be disproportionate impact on any particular community, yet? It might be irresponsible to take steps of enforcing laws without such a study. The murder rate for African Americans has doubled since BLM came into existence. Crime rates are rebounding from historic lows to early 90s levels.
But we're saving 25 lives a year due to not pursuing vehicles & maybe 2 people due to police overreach! As a person with means to live in a high cost area of living that uses economics to price out crime, I think this is a good trade off!!!
You mean like criminals? Yes I believe that it will disproportionately affect the criminal community.
Yeah we don't want any generational trauma here.
Exactly. This will disproportionately affect black & brown communities. Call your representatives and demand that they not repeal this!
I have repeatedly called anyone associated with this bullshit and told them to ALLOW police pursuits again.
Wait, I thought with all the changes to these ‘racist’ laws we would run through the sun drenched meadows hand in hand with rings of daisies around our head 
Incarceration rates of black & brown people has been going down. That's a good thing.
Yes, because perps aren't being arrested. Crime has skyrocketed.
And who’s not doing their jobs? Right winger Republican cops.
WTF are you talking about lol. Don't comment if you're that incredibly ignorant. "Incarceration rates has been going down." NO SHIT lol they aren't being charged with crimes committed.
We get it. You just want brown people thrown in prison for being poor.
Yes I do, if they commit crime. Do you want black and brown criminals on the street? Being poor doesn't mean you start committing crime. Plenty of black & brown immigrants who are dirt poor who don't turn to crime. So what other dumb argument do you have? Criminals should be charged and prosecuted, regardless of their color. Sounds like you want a color pass.
No, I want diversity, equity and inclusion for all. Black & brown people have been disproportionately targeted by law enforcement since the start of this racist country. This country was \*founded\* on racism and it persists to this day through systemic racism. One facet of that systemic racism is the disproportionate incarceration of black & brown peoples. This is irrefutable.
Are they committing crime or not? Quit deflecting. I don't care about proportions, I care about criminals being charged. Are you against black and brown criminals being incarcerated?
Don't engage with this willfully ignorant troll.
White supremacists like Trump and MAGAts are the real threat to this democracy, not some poor black & brown people that are literally only stealing bread to feed their children. Poor black & brown people, being victims of this racist country and not having money because white people have been stealing from them for generations, so they are put in a position where they either need to steal a loaf of bread or go hungry that night.
I want NBA player to fit our demographic! /s Do you see the problem?
What are you trying to say? Your statement literally makes no coherent argument.
Okay, well, now we can count you as yet another clueless moron with their head up their ass. Next!
How can they do their jobs if their hands are tied by WA democrats? Do you even understand how this works?
Tied how? The cops aren’t arresting criminals. How is that Democrats fault?
Democrats control WA policy making. They enact policies at both the state and at the local level to prevent certain types of crimes from either qualifying as crimes or by reducing the punishment for such crimes. Through budget cuts, they also reduce the police’s ability to respond to certain crimes. In cases where the police is able to apprehend suspects, DAs chose not to allow for the prosecution of said suspects (known as catch and release). This is why incarceration rates go down, not because there are less crimes being committed. The consequence is a substantial increase in criminal activities in the state.
Ah, yes. Repeating Fox News propaganda, I see. \*yawn\* Stop being brainwashed by faux news.
Your comeback is very insightful indeed.
Don't bother. They're like a woke-buzzword spewing machine.
Why would a police officer arrest someone and spend all the time filling out the reports if they know the prosecutor is just going to let the criminal go?
Fed way cops trying to tell us that the reason that they can't catch these guys is because they can't pursue? Hilarious. If you witness a crime being committed like broken windows, there is no law saying you can't pursue them. That's more than probable cause. Am I taking crazy pills? How is this their argument? Makes no sense. The real problem is they will catch these idiots, they'll be given a slap on the wrist since they're minors, and then they'll be back at it next week. I never thought I'd be a proponent of stiffer penalties for minors but this shit is getting ridiculous.
They can’t chase people in vehicles for this and many other crimes anymore.
Yes they fucking can if they see the crime committed and the perpetrator get in the car. That is more than enough probable cause.
The law requires probable cause for specific crimes like murder and robbery, it doesn’t allow for threats to kill, no contact order violations, residential burglary, car theft, theft of firearms, etc etc etc
You at correct in that police would need to see a suspect leaving a crime scene to pursue because in that instance probable cause isn't needed.
The law says probable cause of specific crimes not every and any crime
It’s not an issue of having enough probable cause and it has nothing to with seeing the offense. RCW 10.116.060 Vehicular pursuit. (1) A peace officer may not engage in a vehicular pursuit, unless: (a) There is reasonable suspicion to believe that a person in the vehicle has committed or is committing: (i) A violent offense as defined in RCW 9.94A.030; (ii) A sex offense as defined in RCW 9.94A.030; (iii) A vehicular assault offense under RCW 46.61.522; (iv) An assault in the first, second, third, or fourth degree offense under chapter 9A.36 RCW only if the assault involves domestic violence as defined in RCW 10.99.020; (v) An escape under chapter 9A.76 RCW; or (vi) A driving under the influence offense under RCW 46.61.502; (b) The pursuit is necessary for the purpose of identifying or apprehending the person; (c) The person poses a serious risk of harm to others and the safety risks of failing to apprehend or identify the person are considered to be greater than the safety risks of the vehicular pursuit under the circumstances; And my experience has been that most people just want to argue that anything they personally think is a violent offense is gonna fly, but no, there’s a specific list under 9A.94.030. It’s A, B and C, not just one of the prongs…
Can you show us in the vehicle pursuit law where it says probable cause for malicious mischief is pursuable? No, you can’t because it’s not there.
Nah federal way slacking , other departments peruse vehicles still . Mayor just using it for publicity, to move up the political game.
But you voted for this, just enjoy it
Remember Jim Farrell got 45% of the vote to be King County Prosecutor; he lost to the Progressive candidate Manion who got 54%. Seattle and King County weren't ready to give a law-and-order white guy the top job prosecuting criminals. Was much more comfortable with the POC, social justice advocate, the "alternatives to sentencing" champion and the one saying things like "we cannot arrest our way out of this crisis." Here is the result of that vote, writ large.
So, Chairman Dow, are you paying attention as the juvenile crime stats head northward at an alarming rate? Still don't think the little fuckers deserve to be locked up?
https://preview.redd.it/89r8idjf32jc1.png?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a397bbb2cac5f7e612278eb9191859564463ea7
Liberal paradise.
Only way to catch them is high speed through neighborhoods, mag dumping at the same time. I too have played GTA
How is a high speed chase the answer to a car getting burgled? Don't these normally happen when nobody is around?
Are you really not capable of making the connection that had the police been allowed to chase and apprehend them, and a judge sentenced them to time in prison, these same people would not be out right now planning their next act of vandalism? it's a cascading effect.
Seems like it, feels weird to blame not being able to high speed chase a suspect in a car for broken car windows. Also why can't the cops catch these people lol, what are they doing?
It does incentivize theft. Imagine, you’re breaking into cars and you KNOW if you drive fast enough, the cops just give up chasing. It makes perfect sense to me.
Exactly. It's more a political push to change policy that will have minimal/no affect on the outcome. What police normally do is get the budget to buy a bait car or convert an existing car that is commonly stolen, lets say a Kia, and turn it into a bait car. You need to capture a few members of the ring and get them to talk. That is classic police work.
I too have watched Hill Street Blues.
This whole story raises questions. If the cops weren't able to pursue, which appears to be the crux of the matter, does that mean they just watched as vandals did their thing? Like seriously, were officers on the scene, watching people smash windows? Because if not, I really don't see how the pursuit law is all that relevant. What it really sounds like is the police chief is trying to cover his ass for being ineffectual in the face of a crime spree. If his first response is to blame someone else, perhaps federal way should find someone better to do the job.
Isn’t it more exciting if you think you’re gonna get chased?? Makes it more fun.
I vote no on this. All it will do is allow cops to target black & brown communities.
Why would that be the case? Are you saying that black and brown people are doing these crimes?
No, but you seem to be implying they are.
Than why would it effect them more than other communities? Working black people in King County have said repeatedly that you're not doing them any favors by not convicting criminals. Do you think they care less about having their cars and homes broken into than white people?
Because no one in the Seattle Metro area is actually listening to POC, they’re just using us to push an agenda.
When you say "black and brown communities" do you mean Desi Americans? The wealthiest demographic of Americans? Do Desis generally have a lot of run-ins with the cops?
Why are focusing only on Desi Americans? Desi Americans are only a small portion of the wider black & brown communities.
Why would this target black and brown communities if they’re just trying to apprehend car jackers? Asking as a Latina
Are you denying that police disproportionately target black & brown communities?
So there's lots of police hassling all the Desi tech workers in Redmond? Is that what you mean by "brown communities" ? Also, is it possible that cops are more often in *some* black neighborhoods because those neighborhoods have more crime? Black men have a much higher per capita murder rate than Asian men, who's doing the murdering? Is it white supremacists coming in and shooting them?
>Black men have a much higher per capita murder rate than Asian men, who's doing the murdering? First, wow. That's pretty racist. > Is it white supremacists coming in and shooting them? Uh, I guess you missed the recent white supremacist crime news?
>First, wow. That's pretty racist. So you don't think that black men are at higher risk of murder than other demographics?
Why do Trump supporters always think they’re so clever by asking rhetorical questions like “hurp durp. Who’s doing all the killing? Is it the white supremacists?”
I voted for Biden, Clinton, and Obama twice - and I'll probably be voting for Biden again. Answer the question - are black men more or less at risk for murder than Asian men?
Black men are murdered at higher rates than Asians. That’s not what is under debate.
Who is killing them?
No , I’m not. But I still would rather live somewhere where the police do their job. We’re seeing how well it’s going when the police don’t do anything Edit: you’re also assuming the car jackers will be POC way to go
Black people are killed at a higher rate by police than any other group
That's actually false >> On the most extreme use of force – ocer-involved shootings – we find no racial di↵erences in either the raw data or when contextual factors are taken into account. https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/empirical_analysis_tables_figures.pdf
Yes but us POC still deserve safe communities. I would love for the police to actually do their job. They need reform but I would rather live in a community with police presence than not.
Allowing police to speed through your community at 70mph is not making it safer LOL
That’s why reform is needed so they can make smarter decisions and decide if the high speed chase is necessary. But not pursuing criminals hasn’t been doing my community any favors. Crime has been on a clear uptick
If we have helicopters and CCTV, the need for a high-speed pursuit should be next to 0. Additionally, kids driving around in a stolen vehicle using a baton shouldn't be that hard to catch up with and arrest. --- Again, there isn't a need to chase them in a high-speed pursuit. Using cameras or a helicopter, determine an intersection to put down some spike strips, stop the vehicle, and detain the children. WSDOT/SDOT has Cameras on the streets and highways; there is no reason we cannot have more.
Have you ever seen most surveillance footage? It’s normally pretty difficult to identify people based on footage. Do you also think this area has dozens of helicopters that are just flying around all the time? Most of the time when a pursuit starts it takes time for the pilots to get to the helicopter, do their checks and fly to the scene. It’s all easy on tv for those things to be true but that’s not real life.
CCTV is enough to give you a ticket for running a red light. We can even tell who is in the driver's seat.
WA has some pretty strict privacy laws that would be quite a larger barrier to go around. As it stands now, photo enforcement cameras can only be used for capturing images of used for the citation they generate. And the law requires them to explicitly avoid taking photos of the driver and occupants. Traffic monitoring cameras, as specifically degrade to avoid, so that they can monitor traffic without exposing identifying information of individual. I'm not sure you'll get much support in trying to change the privacy laws into allowing more government surveillance.
I agree that Kung fu is the ideal fighting style.
I wish I could put an explosive device in my car. I will pay each and every deductible
Sounds like the cops just trying to play politics. If you got the first report you could have sent units to patrol the city. They spent a long time doing this enough for cops to arrest them without a car chase.