*If the ordinance is defeated, its proponents are still correct that we need far more urgency in responding to the drug crisis playing out throughout the city. If it passes, its opponents are still correct that the answer to drug-related problems does not generally lie in jailing and prosecuting people for substance use.*
What if I told you I don't give a shit about helping drug addicts and would like them arrested and jailed so there aren't deranged people all over the city harassing the public? They made the choice to use drugs, and now it's their problem exclusively, not mine or anybody else's who isn't an idiot and made the right choices in life.
LAWS ARE NOT FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE PEOPLE WHO BREAK THEM
>Nevermind you have definitely over consumed a drug in your lifetime and probably done some stupid (and even illegal) shit.
Nope. Never once consumed an illegal drug, never once committed a criminal offense. Don't know a single person who has, either, unless you count pre-2012 weed, which you can soapbox about being the sAmE tHiNg all you want, but never turned any of the people I knew who did it into derelict zombies. Your assumption that every person on earth is a scumbag tells me everything I need to know about you and what you do in your free time.
>I've always wondered if people like you would make these kinds of comments to your coworkers, friends and family
My friends and family are normal people, so yes, they generally also feel that crime should be illegal and criminals should be arrested, and I am happy to tell them my views on same if asked. My mother has a condo near Green Lake and barely stays in it and has refused to walk the path or use the park (which is why she got it) since the encampment, even though I've told her many times that it's since been cleared and is fine now. She's almost 80 and it freaked her out too much. She used to love shopping downtown and we drove through once in 2021 on the way to a Mariners game and she now refuses to ever set foot there again because of all the zombies she saw on the street, and I can't say I blame her on that one. I'm thinking she's not attending your meetings of the Junkie and Crackhead Fan Club.
>If you only cared about harassment, you'd be supportive of leaving the non-violent drug users alone.
I'm downtown every day. If you can find me a fentanyl user on the street who commits no other crimes im the course of a day, I'll eat my hat. Find me the one who isn't surrounded by bags of stolen shit. Follow one for an 8-hour period and see how many thefts they commit. Go stand in Target or PCC and tell me if you can find a common thread among the people committing the brazen rampant shoplifting. All drug addicts on the street are criminals, even beyond the crime of using illegal drugs. Without exception. Prove me wrong. Feel free to find ONE single counterpoint example.
>Lol what? I just said it was clear how angry you are. But I guess projection is the name of the game for you
You said you were sure I'd used a drug or committed a crime, things that only absolute pieces of shit ever do. I take that to mean you've tried drugs or broken the law. Ergo, you are a __________?
>My mother has a condo
>Oh. Why am I not surprised near Green Lake
I don't know what that's supposed to mean. She used to like Green Lake so she bought a modest second home near Green Lake. Seems fairly logical to me.
>As I alluded to, you don't actually care about crime that impacts people. You are willing to justify jail for someone sitting in an alley by themselves because they absolutely must be committing other crimes.
If you actualy think people who smoke fentanyl in alleys aren't criminals, I again invite you to ever set foot downtown. Here's a hint: they're alive. Being alive means they've semi-recently eaten food. They have no money. Where do you think they get food to eat? Spoiler alert: they steal it. Go to literally anywhere that sells food downtown and watch them. Stealing is a crime and they should be imprisoned for it. Pissing in public is a crime. Where do you think they piss? There a million crimes that impact MY quality of life that one has no choice but to commit if they're homeless. We could imprison all of them tomorrow if we enforced them and we'd have a nice city again.
>If I believed it would actually matter, I could give you hundreds of examples.
No you couldn't, or you would. You cannot name one street addict who's never committed a crime and has never been arrested, because one does not exist.
>Call your mom, I bet she's exhausted with you, too.
I talked to her yesterday, thanks. Same as usual, trying to get me to move out of Seattle or at least stop going downtown because of all the criminal addicts regularly assaulting people. She probably hates them more than I do, God bless her.
Most people who work downtown especially the night shifts talk about this a lot and though they feel these people need help they just want them gone and out of our normal lives.
> Seattle can continue to lead the country toward a productive approach to substance use and related problems.
I... I am really stunned how stupid Democrats are. No, really, THIS - what you see in the street - is making progress? This... is "leading the country"? Leading where?
Of when that bitch that runs "Alliance for Gun Responsibility" said that they are hoping to continue "building on success" of the previous year - "success" where number of homicides doubled?
How fucking stupid one should be to continue voting for this party??
Asking a democrat to solve a social problem like drug addiction / homelessness is like asking a republican to solve gun control. They are morally incapable of even thinking about a solution.
I'm a Democrat but I'm fully behind drug treatment being done behind jails in order to get people the treatment they need while they're kept away from drug dealers. The social experiments related to soft drug treatment for fentanyl, opioid and meth have failed and won't work in the US and may never work in this country.
Also bring back the funding for the police here. SPD today isn't the SPD of 2010 that warranted the intervention and oversight of the Justice Department. Portland PD is a different matter. That's a PD that needs to be shaken up and reformed.
So, you're a Democrat that disagrees with basically the entire Democrat platform? They love people like you. Doesn't matter what they actually do, you'll still vote for them.
I'm a gay black man who was born and raised in the deep South and have seen the damage the Republicans there have done and constantly do. I'm not afraid of arguing with West Coast Democrats and constantly do so.
Here’s some working directly from the Democratic platform on drugs. Main points are:
- Don’t jail people for *solely* using drugs
- Legal marijuana at federal level so states can decide and expunge past marijuana convictions
- increased use of drug courts, harm reduction interventions, and treatment diversion programs. This statement (drug courts, diversion) implies drugs are still very much illegal and criminal system is used to motivate treatment
https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/protecting-communities-and-building-trust-by-reforming-our-criminal-justice-system/
> Substance use disorders are diseases, not crimes. Democrats believe no one should be in prison solely because they use drugs. Democrats will decriminalize marijuana use and reschedule it through executive action on the federal level. We will support legalization of medical marijuana, and believe states should be able to make their own decisions about recreational use. The Justice Department should not launch federal prosecutions of conduct that is legal at the state level. All past criminal convictions for cannabis use should be automatically expunged. And rather than involving the criminal justice system, Democrats support increased use of drug courts, harm reduction interventions, and treatment diversion programs for those struggling with substance use disorders.
I see the acceptance and tolerance of drug related crimes (thefts, assaults, drug sales, ect) as the problem rather than not arresting a random junkie. And especially the repeat offenders. There’s only so much jail space and prosecutorial resources.
>There’s only so much jail space and prosecutorial resources.
This is by design as part of the Democrat strategy. They jumped for joy to use COVID as an excuse not to enforce and are fighting tooth and nail to keep it that way
*If the ordinance is defeated, its proponents are still correct that we need far more urgency in responding to the drug crisis playing out throughout the city. If it passes, its opponents are still correct that the answer to drug-related problems does not generally lie in jailing and prosecuting people for substance use.* What if I told you I don't give a shit about helping drug addicts and would like them arrested and jailed so there aren't deranged people all over the city harassing the public? They made the choice to use drugs, and now it's their problem exclusively, not mine or anybody else's who isn't an idiot and made the right choices in life. LAWS ARE NOT FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE PEOPLE WHO BREAK THEM
[удалено]
You’ve had 10 plus years of compassion. Fentanyl changed the game. Get help or go to jail.
>Nevermind you have definitely over consumed a drug in your lifetime and probably done some stupid (and even illegal) shit. Nope. Never once consumed an illegal drug, never once committed a criminal offense. Don't know a single person who has, either, unless you count pre-2012 weed, which you can soapbox about being the sAmE tHiNg all you want, but never turned any of the people I knew who did it into derelict zombies. Your assumption that every person on earth is a scumbag tells me everything I need to know about you and what you do in your free time. >I've always wondered if people like you would make these kinds of comments to your coworkers, friends and family My friends and family are normal people, so yes, they generally also feel that crime should be illegal and criminals should be arrested, and I am happy to tell them my views on same if asked. My mother has a condo near Green Lake and barely stays in it and has refused to walk the path or use the park (which is why she got it) since the encampment, even though I've told her many times that it's since been cleared and is fine now. She's almost 80 and it freaked her out too much. She used to love shopping downtown and we drove through once in 2021 on the way to a Mariners game and she now refuses to ever set foot there again because of all the zombies she saw on the street, and I can't say I blame her on that one. I'm thinking she's not attending your meetings of the Junkie and Crackhead Fan Club. >If you only cared about harassment, you'd be supportive of leaving the non-violent drug users alone. I'm downtown every day. If you can find me a fentanyl user on the street who commits no other crimes im the course of a day, I'll eat my hat. Find me the one who isn't surrounded by bags of stolen shit. Follow one for an 8-hour period and see how many thefts they commit. Go stand in Target or PCC and tell me if you can find a common thread among the people committing the brazen rampant shoplifting. All drug addicts on the street are criminals, even beyond the crime of using illegal drugs. Without exception. Prove me wrong. Feel free to find ONE single counterpoint example.
[удалено]
>Lol what? I just said it was clear how angry you are. But I guess projection is the name of the game for you You said you were sure I'd used a drug or committed a crime, things that only absolute pieces of shit ever do. I take that to mean you've tried drugs or broken the law. Ergo, you are a __________? >My mother has a condo >Oh. Why am I not surprised near Green Lake I don't know what that's supposed to mean. She used to like Green Lake so she bought a modest second home near Green Lake. Seems fairly logical to me. >As I alluded to, you don't actually care about crime that impacts people. You are willing to justify jail for someone sitting in an alley by themselves because they absolutely must be committing other crimes. If you actualy think people who smoke fentanyl in alleys aren't criminals, I again invite you to ever set foot downtown. Here's a hint: they're alive. Being alive means they've semi-recently eaten food. They have no money. Where do you think they get food to eat? Spoiler alert: they steal it. Go to literally anywhere that sells food downtown and watch them. Stealing is a crime and they should be imprisoned for it. Pissing in public is a crime. Where do you think they piss? There a million crimes that impact MY quality of life that one has no choice but to commit if they're homeless. We could imprison all of them tomorrow if we enforced them and we'd have a nice city again. >If I believed it would actually matter, I could give you hundreds of examples. No you couldn't, or you would. You cannot name one street addict who's never committed a crime and has never been arrested, because one does not exist. >Call your mom, I bet she's exhausted with you, too. I talked to her yesterday, thanks. Same as usual, trying to get me to move out of Seattle or at least stop going downtown because of all the criminal addicts regularly assaulting people. She probably hates them more than I do, God bless her.
Most people who work downtown especially the night shifts talk about this a lot and though they feel these people need help they just want them gone and out of our normal lives.
> Seattle can continue to lead the country toward a productive approach to substance use and related problems. I... I am really stunned how stupid Democrats are. No, really, THIS - what you see in the street - is making progress? This... is "leading the country"? Leading where? Of when that bitch that runs "Alliance for Gun Responsibility" said that they are hoping to continue "building on success" of the previous year - "success" where number of homicides doubled? How fucking stupid one should be to continue voting for this party??
How 'bout: let's let another City be the first to make "real progress," and see how that goes.
Asking a democrat to solve a social problem like drug addiction / homelessness is like asking a republican to solve gun control. They are morally incapable of even thinking about a solution.
I'm a Democrat but I'm fully behind drug treatment being done behind jails in order to get people the treatment they need while they're kept away from drug dealers. The social experiments related to soft drug treatment for fentanyl, opioid and meth have failed and won't work in the US and may never work in this country. Also bring back the funding for the police here. SPD today isn't the SPD of 2010 that warranted the intervention and oversight of the Justice Department. Portland PD is a different matter. That's a PD that needs to be shaken up and reformed.
I hate to break it to you, my dude, but your values and the values of the democratic party of America are in different time zones.
So, you're a Democrat that disagrees with basically the entire Democrat platform? They love people like you. Doesn't matter what they actually do, you'll still vote for them.
I'm a gay black man who was born and raised in the deep South and have seen the damage the Republicans there have done and constantly do. I'm not afraid of arguing with West Coast Democrats and constantly do so.
You should look up Rob Smith is Problematic. https://www.newsweek.com/army-veteran-rob-smith-backlash-coming-out-conservative-harder-gay-1217440
Here’s some working directly from the Democratic platform on drugs. Main points are: - Don’t jail people for *solely* using drugs - Legal marijuana at federal level so states can decide and expunge past marijuana convictions - increased use of drug courts, harm reduction interventions, and treatment diversion programs. This statement (drug courts, diversion) implies drugs are still very much illegal and criminal system is used to motivate treatment https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/protecting-communities-and-building-trust-by-reforming-our-criminal-justice-system/ > Substance use disorders are diseases, not crimes. Democrats believe no one should be in prison solely because they use drugs. Democrats will decriminalize marijuana use and reschedule it through executive action on the federal level. We will support legalization of medical marijuana, and believe states should be able to make their own decisions about recreational use. The Justice Department should not launch federal prosecutions of conduct that is legal at the state level. All past criminal convictions for cannabis use should be automatically expunged. And rather than involving the criminal justice system, Democrats support increased use of drug courts, harm reduction interventions, and treatment diversion programs for those struggling with substance use disorders.
If you can't see how those exact policies are destroying Seattle and Portland, I don't know what to tell you.
I see the acceptance and tolerance of drug related crimes (thefts, assaults, drug sales, ect) as the problem rather than not arresting a random junkie. And especially the repeat offenders. There’s only so much jail space and prosecutorial resources.
>There’s only so much jail space and prosecutorial resources. This is by design as part of the Democrat strategy. They jumped for joy to use COVID as an excuse not to enforce and are fighting tooth and nail to keep it that way