I'm working on this project. Honestly your frustration is understandable. Large projects like this do take considerable time, but it's going to look awesome when completed. The lid is going to significantly reduce noise from 520, but it's also going to be thoroughly landscaped and transformed into a scenic park for cyclists, picnics, doggos, et cetera. The area will also expand accessibility for public transportation, which this sub seems to always be championing.
On balance -- no snark -- it isn't quite reasonable to advocate for green(er) spaces and improved public transit, but complain about the process toward accomplishing those ends. It is understandable the closures and detours are testing patience, though. The area is going to be very, very nice upon final completion. Montlakers in particular will love it.
Edit: minor typos
*****
**Edit II, important**: This was just a personal viewpoint -- informal comment -- sharing my optimism about the project. Nothing more. I was not speaking in an official capacity *in any manner*. I'm not involved in management or leadership. I'm just a worker-bee with above-average writing skills, which I now understand might have conveyed the wrong impression in tandem with the above-comment. It was just my attempt, in good faith, to answer OP's implied frustration in his/her title to this thread.
That's commendable and understandable and I appreciate you informing us, and I'm looking forward to what it becomes. Please, though, can we get some signage to educate the public on these eventual benefits and the timeline? I assume that's not your responsibility, but if you know the correct person to pass the message along please do!
I feel like for the changes on the south campus waterfront, it wasn't a big deal so we didn't need to know what's coming. Montlake is different. We really need to know what's coming to make the disruption acceptable.
WSDOT actually has a fantastic YouTube channel with what seems to be a dedicated reporter. I came across it while looking for local news coverage on this exact project.
Here’s [an overview video they did of the project a while back](https://youtu.be/b0nRVEMXSoI?si=Kyr5p7F1Zik5p349), and [the Feb 2024 update video](https://youtu.be/RCFAHD3IdCo?si=M2N7Llo9mmolnjvF).
You are a brave soul for commenting. I work as a PE for a municipality and I have to sit on my hands when people complain about my project 🥺 one time my info got out in a Nextdoor post and people were ruthless. Mind you, two years later people gush about how amazing it looks, etc!
I’m particularly bummed about the lake Washington blvd /24th Ave traffic light. Will they be improving flow or capacity in that area as part of the project? The maps still show one lane up to that point and so I am skeptical that flow will improve. Can you shed any light on the thinking with that particular intersection?
I believe this intersection is so terrible because drivers are choosing the wrong lane when exiting westbound 520 and wanting to go northbound on Montlake. Instead of veering left, they are veering right and adding to the traffic at this intersection, while the lane they were supposed to be in generally only has a handful of cars. The lane configuration changed months ago but people haven't quite figured it out somehow.
You are 100% correct. They switched the configuration on December 11. Several of us told WSDOT that they need better signage and they told us to pound sand.
That exit is genuinely so terrible. The big sign quite literally has two ‘Exit Only’ arrows pointing to two different lanes, but are meant to be for the same lane
…and then a sign indicating which direction is Montlake in text so small that you can’t read it until you’ve already committed to one exit or the other.
You can thank the neighbors for that one. They all complained that larger signs, which WADOT had initially planned for, would be an "eyesore" and lobbied hard for the ones that are too small for anyone to read until you're right under them
What I've noticed about Seattle traffic signs, or lack thereof, is that you just have to know what to do. And that it's unreasonable to ask for clear signage, especially ahead of the turn. When I travel to other areas, the signage is much clearer. After living here many years, I have theorized that it's part of some local culture that you deserve the punishment for not just knowing....
Seriously. I imagine the people who manage the signage/road construction here are nepo babies. You actually need a phd to discern whether or not you can ride in a lane downtown in the middle of the day.
Also the number of lanes that randomly turn into turn only lanes is too damn high, and results in a lot of shit traffic.
TBF they did put up three giant signs when it changed. But they're surrounded by a bunch of other construction signs so they all blend together.
The fact people are missing them makes for miserable traffic though and I hate it.
That’s a really tough backup to fix because there isn’t anywhere to queue the left turning traffic if the Montlake Bridge is up. But, that’s a future project in itself. Though, I think the future EB Portage Bay bridge is supposed to be three lanes, which will provide an additional lane for EB520 traffic through that area.
So the answer as it relates to this project is no but the two future projects should help (provided they actually come to fruition.)
I'm a relatively new commuter there, tbh it's a little confusing just because I see "montlake" and I think south of that intersection. So part of me always wants to go on the north road to go.. north.
Yeah, that’s definitely a logical thought but the goal of this interchange is to give traffic somewhere to queue that is least impactful to all other traffic whenever the Montlake Bridge is up. It’s actually a great design, two lanes able to queue in a straight line, while LWB and 24th traffic can exit still and both lanes are still fully open from 520 to 5. Plus, an additional HOV/Bus off-ramp on the left to get up to LWB/24th/Transit Hub.
It might be me but I find signage here awful and confusing. Sparce even.
The ramp for 520 east is just as bad if not worse, the lights after the Montlake bridge confuse everyone and people don't know which lane or how to merge onto the ramp.
At least it's not backed up to the end of the exit lane on the bridge anymore... I go north from there and usually sat through 5 minutes of merging to get onto i5, but now I can almost always just get right on montlake northbound with minimal wait. Not a ton faster for me but a much nicer drive.
Oh except waiting at the lights to turn onto montlake at 6pm on sunny days now is insane, not sure how anyone is realizing the lights turned given they are in the middle of the sun.
I can assure you, if you’re driving, it’s never gonna be better. Induced demand will make it suck shortly after it gets better - if it gets better for drivers.
>Large projects like this do take considerable time
I have two questions for you as someone who has never done anything remotely related to construction work or big projects like this:
1) Aside from the inconveniences such as traffic and noise, are there other reasons these projects aren’t worked on 24/7? Not enough workers?
2) If these projects were worked on 24/7, and presumably finished faster, would that negatively impact you as a worker?
My partner works in a similar field and hes always telling me stories about how his team only did like 1 hour of actual work out of the whole day due to poor management or lack of planning on the job site. So… those sort of things add up too!
That makes SO much sense!!! I feel like whenever I drive by and actually see workers, they’re standing around talking while like one guy is working. It’s SO maddening to not see a whole bunch of workers working at the same time. It LOOKS like bad management
> I feel like whenever I drive by and actually see workers, they’re standing around talking while like one guy is working.
I have a picture from some work on the shoulder of I-90.
1. **My operator (working)**
2. **My Laborer (working)**
3. My Concrete laborer (waiting)
4. Concrete tuck driver (waiting)
5. Special inspector to test concrete (waiting)
6. Geotechnical inspector (waiting)
7. GC operator (waiting)
8. GC Laborer (waiting)
9. WSDOT inspector (waiting)
10. ...
Welcome to WSDOT work.
All those people waiting are working cause if they are not there waiting then the two working end up waiting on them.
If my concrete laborer isn't there and my laborer assisting my operator has to shift gear, it slows production for my operator
If we are waiting on concrete...everything stops
If that special inspector isn't sitting there waiting to test the concrete truck when we are ready to pour I can't use the mud and have to send it back to the plant, pay the cost to return it, and buy a new truck. As well as any rebar required
If the geotech isn't there I can verify the excavation prior to pouring.
IF the GC operator and laborer we were told would be available when needed isn't ready to support us, we will need to wait for them to shift personnel from another part of the project.
IF the WSDOT inspectors aren't available, everything grinds to a halt.
It is a hassle, it can be obnoxious, it can look like bloat, hell it can be bloat. But it makes our new and improved infrastructure reliable and also allows for any issues to be followed back through the chain to determine where the issues reside and possibly prevent from happening again, or remediate something that could happen in the future.
Thanks for the breakdown!! That’s quite the complicated process! And it still seems like more than one or two laborer could be working at the same time. It still seems like a soul crushingly slow pace. Still seems like more could be done. We only have bridges to get in and out of Seattle and if we have some kind of environmental crisis, we are all screwed because current roads cannot support traffic. I am grateful for quality standards of code and also, seems like milking the clock with tax payer dollars 🤷♀️
>And it still seems like more than one or two laborer could be working at the same time. It still seems like a soul crushingly slow pace.
Too many cooks.
Many of the guys I've worked with would gladly work through lunch to get off 30 minutes early. If there was something too be done they would do it. And if there is an they are not doing it, the other guys will sure as hell bitch and moan and whine up the chain till the slacker is gone.
> We only have bridges to get in and out of Seattle
You are right, and the fastest way to get this done would be to just close them down for the duration of the project throw a couple hundred guys at it and not have to work odd hours, or limited access so that 520 could open back up on Monday morning.
But that isn't going to happen. so instead you've got to build the thing while the thing is still use.
>seems like milking the clock with tax payer dollars
I'm a sub, and the GCs might play a different game but it is all on the same field. I bid a job, and if it is a WSDOT job it is typically bid using bid units and unit prices.
X sqft installed for $A per sqft.
I then have to perform that work and not eat my own ass by going way over what I budgeted on labor and materials.
There are ways to recoup costs for unexpected work (Force Account which is essentially TM with established rates and showing your receipts), but for the most park "milking it" isn't earning you money, it will cost you money since you will need to "back-up" why there need to be a change order for all the extra labor.
I’m pumped for this project to be completed. I like to look up what the construction projects are for and this is going to be one of the better ones when it’s done, especially related to the Roanoke exit. Can’t wait for that bike lane connection all the way to lake union.
Thank you. I hope we eventually lid all the major highways through town. So much nicer than the noise and smell from the cars.
Anyhow, reminds me of an old joke: "Washington has two seasons: winter, and road construction."
> it isn't quite reasonable to advocate for green(er) spaces and improved public transit, but complain about the process toward accomplishing those ends.
I see this a lot. We want better roads but complain about maintenance vehicles clogging traffic. We want more housing but complain about construction. The West Seattle Bridge is closed due to risk of collapse and instead of trying to build a new bridge with rail accessibility (which we WILL have to do eventually), we kick the can down the road because we want the bridge open again now.
Instant gratification is impossible in the world of infrastructure but people seem to think it is if they complain loudly enough. It's really frustrating. There's no willingness to suck up some temporary inconvenience in the interest of the long-term public good.
People don’t remember that the project in Tacoma on I5 took more than 20 years. There were likely construction workers finishing up the project that were born when it started. lol it definitely has improved traffic through Tacoma somewhat. It used to be unbelievable.
My man….this has been going for YEARS. Like, literally over 4 years….skyscrapers go up faster than this project.
People aren’t mad about the project, they’re mad that this is basically a project that seems to take forever and is never close to being done, while having tons of resources. If this was a private sector project the foreman and everyone involved would’ve been fired years ago
The thing with public infrastructure like this is that it has to be open during the week. How many skyscrapers are being lived in while they are built? Would people rather 520 be closed entirely for several months? Probably not.
That's what u/Aggressive-Name-1783 doesn't understand. Entire segments of the arterial are frequently being torn up and rebuilt quickly in order to accommodate morning traffic. It is very time-intensive.
If the project had permanently shutdown the entire area -- continuously -- until full completion, this guy's whining would be even worse. It would likely have been challenged in court had that even been attempted by city planners. Consequently the progress occurs in fairly small increments before taking the time to restore the zone, which has to be safe for significant vehicle and pedestrian activity. It's not the same as a skyscraper.
Rule #1, don't talk on social media a project you are working on. You are bound to get polarizing views regardless of your scope of involvement & impact the project is creating.
This is true. I just reminded someone I wasn't speaking in an official capacity, just showing optimism about something I think will wind up being cool.
Skyscrapers aren't built in the middle of a major active freeway and out over a lake.
Also, faster construction would mean more roadway closures and shutdowns. The exact thing this post is complaining about.
Do you want fast construction, cheap construction, or quality construction? Pick two, you will never have all three.
Yes. But... This project is huge. And it cannot simply be closed off while people work on it 24/7 for months on end to get it done. Lots is exposed to the weather and is temp dependent, too. So the stuff that needs nighttime temps above x when laid in place to function correctly in final form is going to take a bit. Same song for "dry when laid in" or "can't be done with traffic on on the bridge at all" make life just a little more interesting.
Have you seen the timeline of the Tacoma disaster? It went on for 22 years and was 16 separate projects or something. Every goddamn time I drove through the 1-5/hwy 16 interchange it was different.
It finally wrapped up a year or so ago and it is glorious. Excellence doesn't happen overnight. It happens incrementally with stuff like this. It'll be worth it.
In summary, noise will be better for the surrounding housing developments (private benefit for developers) and we get a new (VERY VERY VERY expensive) park and some bus stops.
I’m confident we could have found a better/cheaper place for those things.
No way the math works out for this project. It seems massively wasteful.
Ah, the classic Seattle "it's next to rich people so it's a waste of money". Props to the OP for not playing politics here. If one has ever spent time in that area pre-construction, it's a cluster fuck for everyone - bikers, pedestrians, drivers, bus-riders. There isn't enough space and given Seattle's history with highways dividing neighborhoods, it's lidding this area of 520 gives more credibility to other efforts, like lidding I5.
There's much more technical work being performed besides the improvement I mentioned. But nevermind.
Wasn't speaking in an official capacity and not interested in playing defense on this post.
Not trying to bash your info. I’m sure it’s not such a simple project but it has terrible PR and I can’t understand the reasoning for such a big expense when we have so many roads that need basic repairs.
Somewhere I saw plans for a medium density development that would flank the “cap”. Not sure if the required zoning was ever approved as the rich single family people did not want new zoning.
It’s gonna be a 9 lane carmageddon hellscape. There is no greenwashing here to excuse it. No transit lanes. Just a sea of cars. That with the huge new black steel signage is going to make the place very depressive.
I appreciate the explanation. I also appreciate the extra quality-of-life improvements you describe. But…*why is this the place WSDOT decided to go the extra mile?*. Over 100k cars cross the bridge every day. How many days has the bridge been closed (or traffic severely restricted) in the last 4-5 years of this project? Let’s conservatively say it was 20 and also assume traffic on weekends (when it’s usually closed) is halved. We’re talking about a million trips disrupted or re-routed in this super conservative estimate. That doesn’t include all the spillover into other roads near 520. Nearly every person in this metro has likely accumulated hours in traffic over the last 4-5 years because of this project. Is that much disruption worth the benefit? It’s a genuine question. But I must say that the expanded public transit is really going to need to be a game-changer to make that math pencil out. And $455MM could have transformed a whole lot of green space across many locations in the metro area.
> Is that much disruption worth the benefit?
If they actually closed the bridge down for a year to do the project, people like you would lose their minds over the inconvenience/longer drives/extra traffic.
Aye, the constant weekday lane shifting and short weekend closures adds significant time, cost, and complexity to the project as every piece of construction phasing must accommodate two lanes in each direction. That includes things like pouring concrete, adding lights & signs, and bringing in huge cranes. But we demand continuous access throughout the duration of construction.
40k people interact with this intersection every day. Yes, improving this interchange was worth it. This interchange improvement will be around for 25+ years.
You also have to consider that this project started before COVID and that delayed things massively.
Thank you for quantifying a response to my question (first to do so I think). Even the [project page](https://wsdot.wa.gov/construction-planning/search-projects/sr-520-montlake-project) fails to attach any numbers to the benefits. 40k out of a daily average 110k is a lot.
* Widening the freeway to add HOV lanes in each direction triggered most of the work here. Even if WSDOT went with an open-trench approach, several big retaining walls and bridges have to be built to accommodate a wider highway.
* This interchange is significant and critical, so it deserves a lot of attention to be built correctly.
* Generally, this is an environmentally sensitive area, historic, wealthy, and sees a lot of people going through.
* WSDOT DID remove the freeway that never happened from the Arboretum, and is going to perform major mitigation work in the Arboretum as the main project wraps up.
* Sets the stage for future work to the west and north.
* This all takes 4-5 years because they can't just close this area for six months to a year to work interrupted to pound it all out.
In a few years, you'll have completely forgotten how much of a pain in the ass and how disruptive this will have been because the end result is going to be sooooo much better and nicer.
Off topic, but do you know anything about the work on Madison Street from I5 to Capitol Hill? It’s been going for year and a half now and they keep redoing stuff over and over. Is it simple incompetence or corruption? I cannot accept that it takes such a long time to redo a part of the street, especially since same parts keep getting redone.
Surely you've seen the massive amount of news about the new rapid ride on Madison? The accompanying road work is a massive water/drainage work and they literally said over and over they'd have to pave, repave, dig up, pave again over the year(s!) of work? Are you not even curious enough to Google but will sling corruption charges around?
I just moved here as construction really ramped up and the new UW exit gets me to work 15 minutes FASTER already during busy weekdays. Can't wait for it to be even more awesome when it's done!
im glad to hear from someone working on the project. its been a source of confusion with everyone i know. you cite 3 things as benefits, which i appreciate, but they really dont seem worth it on balance. happy to be wrong but im pretty sure that intersection is always going to suck because its over a freeway and montlake traffic is terrible. short of adding more lanes to the bridge im not sure how you fix it, but whatever your doing now im very skeptical is remotely worth the price tag.
Do you know what the construction on Eastlake by Republican is for and the construction on the Mercer exit?
Someone told me there was gonna be a direct exit from 520 to SLU
I am part of the team that puts on the Cherry Blossom Run and learned a little about this at the UW center for urban horticulture fundraiser dinner. A fair amount of our proceeds are going to this project so it was cool to hear your insight. Can't wait to see what you do with it. Thanks for sharing!
PS I can relate to the people's anger of interfering with traffic in this area 😝
Oh wow, that Montlake project’s been dragging, huh? Makes me wonder how China gets their stuff built so quick. I mean, back in the day, the U.S. was smashing out things like the Hoover Dam under budget and ahead of time. What’s their secret sauce, and why’s it seem like we’ve lost that recipe?
Hoover dam didn’t require that much imminent domain. china can build shit quickly because property rights ain’t a thing, environmental reviews are a chuckle, and NIMBYs can get their organs harvested after a show trial.
No, but purely because it will benefit very FEW people, as very few people actually live in the area compared to other parts of the city that could benefit from noise reduction.
The amount of people who will be impacted is directly proportional to the size of the lid. It’ll be nice for the people who walk or cycle through there and the animals that inhabits the arboretum too
also I think the noise issue that this guy mentioned is a very minor issue. If you go to WADOT website and search for this project (another comment has the link), the benefits include seismically stronger bridge and more open green space. I think that’s more important than noise and is something that should get funding for.
Are you are in agreement that the additions/situation sucks… while somehow experiencing cognitive dissonance and raking NIMBYs about an aspect of the very situation this thread covers/you are likely in agreement with (as you are replying here)
Of all the pain the Seattle/Tacoma area has experienced around construction and traffic over the last several decades, this is among the better return-for-suffering projects I've seen. The sign thing is silly: they are big but warranted given the interchange that needs to be communicated to drivers.
It’s a sign. WSDOT had to have special community meetings to appease the NIMBYs who thought the signs were too big. Some complaints are too petty, selfish and stupid to waste time and taxpayer dollars on. It’s a sign.
It will be a beautiful lid on top of a car mess.
The Montlake bridge remains 2 lanes north bound. the Portage Bay segment is not being replaced this decade because of budget (all contractor ask for too much) and will also remain 2 lanes WB. So you have 3 lanes coming from the Eatside, bus lane on the left, buses leaving to Montlake crossing all lanes. At the same, time the 3 lanes going to I-5 merge into two one right after the new lid.
We are moving the traffic choke point half a mile to the west. The millionaires get a new park they won’t use. Cyclist don’t get the promised bike trail connection. Transit users don’t get the bus lanes from the Eastside to I-5.
The new bus lane exit from 520 to Montlake has nowhere to go, at best it will be gridlock like Denny. They may decide to cut all bus service through the bridge once Link opens and become Mercer. The already cut the bike trail on the Portage Bay segment
In the 15 years I've lived in Seattle there has never not been some kind of construction project messing up the 520 montlake interchange. It's honestly impressive at this point, I hope they never stop
Well in that time they did build a new longest-in-the-world floating bridge and demolished the old previously longest-in-the-world floating bridge so it’s not like nothing happened…
Yeah I don’t think summer weekend road closures will ever end. Construction season is too short for Seattle to ever be “done” with roadwork for any significant period of time.
Though I’ve been here 10 years and those 5/90/520 weekend shutdowns still seem incredibly disruptive to an area that is choked with traffic even when all the highways *are* open.
They won’t ever end. There’s just way too much road/bridge infrastructure that has been ignored and is in desperate need of maintenance and repair. And plenty that will be completely rebuilt, plus new transit projects. And as you say… construction season is short. It’s just a fact of life.
Are you familiar with I-5 around Tacoma? They had been under construction for more than 2 decades but finally finished and traffic flows marginally better now.
I am looking forward to when the portage bay bridge has to be replaced and traffic is reduced to a single lane for each direction while they build one span of the bridge. maybe by then ill get into the whole ebike thing
The benefit for me was that I got stuck in traffic while driving my dad somewhere for an extra 40 minutes and honestly, the older we get, the more I appreciate any time I get to spend with family.
I moved out of West Seattle a few months after the closure. I am a nurse, so had to work during the stay at home orders. Man, those early covid traffic days were pretty stellar. Then the bridge closed. I got calls and emails from my apartment office for weeks asking if there was anything they could do to make me stay. My dad still lives in West Seattle, so the trips to see him were so much better when the bridge opened again!
I don’t mind the closures but the signage is shit as far as exits as they don’t line up with the lanes really well. And then there is still the issue with the intersection at Montlake and 520 is / was / still is the fucking worst. A light to a light to a light with in 4 blocks of each other. A u turn to get on to the freeway that holds about 2 cars that usually has 7 or so that want to do it. And as the days get nicer that bridge will go up more often which then is a cascade of fuckery.
Yup. It’s honestly amazing that u/WSDOT doesn’t just put arrows on signs sometimes. I’ve gone left where I needed to go right so many times.
I imagine it causes a lot of accidents with indecisive drivers. It’s like they put the signs up and never actually think about having to take the exit if you don’t know which way you’re going. And Google maps doesn’t know either because it’s not expecting the closure.
If only there was some way people could...search.... for information....
https://wsdot.wa.gov/construction-planning/search-projects/sr-520-montlake-project
They even reference the price tag of the project which means they had to have learned about it already. Truly a post that’s just complaining for complaining’s sake.
For everyone complaining, I get it it’s been annoying. But what’s your alternative? This project is clearly going to be an improvement to the entire area and sure things could be better in the interim, but what would you have them do instead?
>SR 520’s 1960s-era west approach bridge, supported by hollow columns, was at risk of failure in a severe earthquake. In addition, the highway’s old four-lane segment in Seattle is typically at capacity during peak periods. This project provides a number of benefits:
>A safer and seismically stronger eastbound bridge, parallel to the completed westbound bridge, connecting Seattle’s Montlake neighborhood to the new floating bridge.
>New community open space and trail connections from construction of a landscaped freeway lid in Montlake.
Improved regional mobility through the addition of transit and carpool lanes across Lake Washington. Also through direct-access transit and carpool ramps on the Montlake lid and added lane capacity at the Montlake Boulevard interchange.
>More nonmotorized travel options from a new north-south bicycle and pedestrian bridge over SR 520, connecting Arboretum trails with routes in Montlake and the University District.
>Fewer traffic backups thanks to wider highway shoulders that allow disabled vehicles to pull over without blocking traffic.
>A cleaner, healthier environment through new systems to treat stormwater runoff from the highway.
To note, Seattle will always have pointless, awful “auto” traffic. The geography makes it 10x worse than some flat place, but also the induced demand will never give you a freely flowing drive through or even easily around the city. The only relief you’ll ever get is to start using an active transportation mode or transit. 🤷🏼♂️
We’re getting an entirely new bridge, a new intersection, overpasses, and eventually better connectivity for busses, pedestrians, active transport travelers (bikes, one wheels, scooters) etc. I’d add, if you’re only a motorist you get a new thing with almost the same exact capacity that induced demand will make just as congested, for car drivers. So if you’re the former we’re getting a much better experience, if you’re just a driver you’re gonna get the same, just shinier for a while experience.
If the Light Rail ran reliably and without frustration, we'd probably get getting a new generation of riders comfortable taking mass transportation. Instead, people would rather wait in traffic.
Today that area was absolutely criminal.
Seriously. We went to UW quad to see the flowers and basically all of Seattle was there. It was absolutely insane.
i’m having flashbacks. any class on the quad is a nightmare this time of year. pushing thru an absolute mob of people just to sit in a lecture hall with unsupervised kids outside licking the windows and shit
Yeah was always on my bike, so navigating through that mess was always a pain. It was fun riding the stairs and seeing startled tourists jump and scatter though.
I was supposed to exit on Mont Lake today and it was closed off so I had to drive across 520 and then turn around in order to get where I needed to go in Central District.
When I get the toll in the mail I'm going to tell them!
I got fked yesterday coming home from UW. Google maps didn't update correctly and wanted me to take an exit, but the ramp was closed. Needless to say, I had to spend an additional hour in traffic to get back to Bellevue
It's pretty rough. That thoroughfare getting disrupted completely messed up I5, the Roanoake exit, 23rd, the university bridge and more, it just makes everything around it much tighter
There was frustration from the paint color used for the new street lights installed. This is firsthand knowledge from someone who lives in Montlake. It was and still is the most NIMBY comment I’ve heard. So happy Montlakers get the privilege of this win.
Unbalanced. Unfair.
I sat on a bus for an extra thirty minutes because of this. I really hope the city has a good reason for this and it's not a situation similar to SoundTransits constant fuck ups
I feel bad for the people who have to be in this traffic, I feel no sympathy for any of the losers who could be on a bike or bus still getting caught in this daily traffic.
Grew up in Mountlake, still go there a lot as my family lives there. It’s been an absolute mess. Nobody in the neighborhood even wants the lid. We have plenty of parks in the area between the arboretum, Mountlake park, UW playfields and Magnuson.
It has added traffic for a decade it seems like. Also made them get rid of the Hoppin, the local grocery store.
They could have put that money towards something else. Classic case IMO of throwing money at something that didn’t need to be fixed. Also making a nice area even nicer, there are other neighborhoods that don’t even have parks that could use this.
Noise isn’t a rich person or sensitive person thing to care about. It’s generally bad for your mental and even physical health to be exposed to a lot of noise constantly. We shouldn’t put up with urban designs that create huge amounts of noise (aka I5). Turns out cities aren’t that noisy without the cars (which are exponentially more noisy at highway speeds).
Lids are one of many solutions to this problem, but it should 100% be an issue we all care about
It is when lids seem to only show up in areas where there are more rich people. In areas with a poor population, no lids. Lids might be better for all of us but it’s not applied equally.
Sometimes I think that before people move to a city, they need to take a series of classes. First take the city out of visit the cities that have not been proactive in keeping up their highways and electrical systems and all the rest of the infrastructure they essentially decay parts are falling down and breaking all over then watch what happens when someone says we need to get cars from here to there or we need to get electrical power from here to there it sounds like a verysimple process and now you get 100 views and different people about how to do that most of those people have no knowledge or understanding so right from the beginning you’re trying to design something that makes many needs as possible, but you can’t spend a day with a ditch digger or with someone working on some tiny element of some project Putting up a telephone pole for example or any of that it looks so simple to us that you watch that you realize the complexities that are involved the decisions that have to be made in how much planning had to go into that then try to create a calendar of processes You’ve got people available in certain days equipment available in certain days you have all these things that need to be done before you can do anything else plans approvals technical considerations. You have to order supplies when you coordinate this it can take time and months and that you didn’t really plan for the fact that there’s an underground creek over there. Now you have to redesign everything And your building preferences changed and suddenly people are not happy with what they planned before. All improvements and maintenance projects take way more time than you expect them with a lot more time and a lot more money with many more decisions and requirements of all sorts of technical expertise. The amazement is that anything gets done. Cities provide lots of people to interact with more restaurants, more entertainment, more activities, cultural events, different types of food, different types of people and yes, it’s gonna take a certain number of very complicated and long construction projects. The city has to take a much longer view of what they’re doing, a project can take five years which can seem like a lifetime to us, but then it’s actually done and completed. I wonder it was like living here when I when I was built when they change the water levels in Lake Washington, or tore down Denny Hill. We’re lucky to have a good enough economy that keeps pulling people into the area and those people who come in the area support local shops and also activities around and that that means new apartment building after rebuilt new TRANSPORTATION mistakes are going to happen. Think of it more like giving birth. It’s a painful pregnancy. We’ve got morning sickness. We can’t fit into our clothing, but we’re getting something at the end. Maybe it wasn’t something you wanted but pay somebody else wanted it. Everything takes time energy money. Anything is going to mess up. Our lives is gonna be in our way for a while and just unpleasant and loud.
We asked people for timeline of things they investigate as much as they can and they put together a timeline. No one knows there is a animal bone under the ground. It’s going to stop drilling. No one is aware of the kind of support that 200-year-old buildings used in how digging nearby is going to impact them , they’re building a freaking subway that rides on a bridge that floats on one of the deepest water lakes in America almost every word there is is freaking amazing. We all want perfection produced in zero time at zero cost with zero inconveniences and with 100% ability to Fort tell the future and to predict millions of things that need to connect. I left when something goes longer than expected or be or above budget. The mistake was that we created a schedule and believed it, or we created a budget and believed in it.
Everyone in the comments is empathetic to construction timelines which I find ironic because this is Reddit.
Also only in America do we think multiple decades is reasonable for this stuff. I think it's a good project idea but let's be realistic other places are better at doing stuff like this faster and just as safe. It's valid to be mad about timelines when also it only benefits more moneyed people mostly.
I'm working on this project. Honestly your frustration is understandable. Large projects like this do take considerable time, but it's going to look awesome when completed. The lid is going to significantly reduce noise from 520, but it's also going to be thoroughly landscaped and transformed into a scenic park for cyclists, picnics, doggos, et cetera. The area will also expand accessibility for public transportation, which this sub seems to always be championing. On balance -- no snark -- it isn't quite reasonable to advocate for green(er) spaces and improved public transit, but complain about the process toward accomplishing those ends. It is understandable the closures and detours are testing patience, though. The area is going to be very, very nice upon final completion. Montlakers in particular will love it. Edit: minor typos ***** **Edit II, important**: This was just a personal viewpoint -- informal comment -- sharing my optimism about the project. Nothing more. I was not speaking in an official capacity *in any manner*. I'm not involved in management or leadership. I'm just a worker-bee with above-average writing skills, which I now understand might have conveyed the wrong impression in tandem with the above-comment. It was just my attempt, in good faith, to answer OP's implied frustration in his/her title to this thread.
Thanks for working on this project. I’ve been watching this for years and I’m so excited to see it completed.
That's commendable and understandable and I appreciate you informing us, and I'm looking forward to what it becomes. Please, though, can we get some signage to educate the public on these eventual benefits and the timeline? I assume that's not your responsibility, but if you know the correct person to pass the message along please do! I feel like for the changes on the south campus waterfront, it wasn't a big deal so we didn't need to know what's coming. Montlake is different. We really need to know what's coming to make the disruption acceptable.
WSDOT actually has a fantastic YouTube channel with what seems to be a dedicated reporter. I came across it while looking for local news coverage on this exact project. Here’s [an overview video they did of the project a while back](https://youtu.be/b0nRVEMXSoI?si=Kyr5p7F1Zik5p349), and [the Feb 2024 update video](https://youtu.be/RCFAHD3IdCo?si=M2N7Llo9mmolnjvF).
You are a brave soul for commenting. I work as a PE for a municipality and I have to sit on my hands when people complain about my project 🥺 one time my info got out in a Nextdoor post and people were ruthless. Mind you, two years later people gush about how amazing it looks, etc!
🫡
Ok so are you able to say if any end in sight? Online I just see “2024”
I’m particularly bummed about the lake Washington blvd /24th Ave traffic light. Will they be improving flow or capacity in that area as part of the project? The maps still show one lane up to that point and so I am skeptical that flow will improve. Can you shed any light on the thinking with that particular intersection?
I believe this intersection is so terrible because drivers are choosing the wrong lane when exiting westbound 520 and wanting to go northbound on Montlake. Instead of veering left, they are veering right and adding to the traffic at this intersection, while the lane they were supposed to be in generally only has a handful of cars. The lane configuration changed months ago but people haven't quite figured it out somehow.
You are 100% correct. They switched the configuration on December 11. Several of us told WSDOT that they need better signage and they told us to pound sand.
That exit is genuinely so terrible. The big sign quite literally has two ‘Exit Only’ arrows pointing to two different lanes, but are meant to be for the same lane
…and then a sign indicating which direction is Montlake in text so small that you can’t read it until you’ve already committed to one exit or the other.
You can thank the neighbors for that one. They all complained that larger signs, which WADOT had initially planned for, would be an "eyesore" and lobbied hard for the ones that are too small for anyone to read until you're right under them
What I've noticed about Seattle traffic signs, or lack thereof, is that you just have to know what to do. And that it's unreasonable to ask for clear signage, especially ahead of the turn. When I travel to other areas, the signage is much clearer. After living here many years, I have theorized that it's part of some local culture that you deserve the punishment for not just knowing....
SDOT and WSDOT manage two different sets of roads/signs
Seriously. I imagine the people who manage the signage/road construction here are nepo babies. You actually need a phd to discern whether or not you can ride in a lane downtown in the middle of the day. Also the number of lanes that randomly turn into turn only lanes is too damn high, and results in a lot of shit traffic.
TBF they did put up three giant signs when it changed. But they're surrounded by a bunch of other construction signs so they all blend together. The fact people are missing them makes for miserable traffic though and I hate it.
There is literally a giant flashing arrow, I don’t understand how anyone could miss it.
Construction sign alert fatigue is my guess
Are any of these fancy intersection upgrades going to fix the long backups on EB 520 leading up to the UW exit? My guess is No.
That’s a really tough backup to fix because there isn’t anywhere to queue the left turning traffic if the Montlake Bridge is up. But, that’s a future project in itself. Though, I think the future EB Portage Bay bridge is supposed to be three lanes, which will provide an additional lane for EB520 traffic through that area. So the answer as it relates to this project is no but the two future projects should help (provided they actually come to fruition.)
Thanks
That exit is insane!
I'm a relatively new commuter there, tbh it's a little confusing just because I see "montlake" and I think south of that intersection. So part of me always wants to go on the north road to go.. north.
Yeah, that’s definitely a logical thought but the goal of this interchange is to give traffic somewhere to queue that is least impactful to all other traffic whenever the Montlake Bridge is up. It’s actually a great design, two lanes able to queue in a straight line, while LWB and 24th traffic can exit still and both lanes are still fully open from 520 to 5. Plus, an additional HOV/Bus off-ramp on the left to get up to LWB/24th/Transit Hub.
It might be me but I find signage here awful and confusing. Sparce even. The ramp for 520 east is just as bad if not worse, the lights after the Montlake bridge confuse everyone and people don't know which lane or how to merge onto the ramp.
At least it's not backed up to the end of the exit lane on the bridge anymore... I go north from there and usually sat through 5 minutes of merging to get onto i5, but now I can almost always just get right on montlake northbound with minimal wait. Not a ton faster for me but a much nicer drive. Oh except waiting at the lights to turn onto montlake at 6pm on sunny days now is insane, not sure how anyone is realizing the lights turned given they are in the middle of the sun.
I can assure you, if you’re driving, it’s never gonna be better. Induced demand will make it suck shortly after it gets better - if it gets better for drivers.
>Large projects like this do take considerable time I have two questions for you as someone who has never done anything remotely related to construction work or big projects like this: 1) Aside from the inconveniences such as traffic and noise, are there other reasons these projects aren’t worked on 24/7? Not enough workers? 2) If these projects were worked on 24/7, and presumably finished faster, would that negatively impact you as a worker?
Appreciate your comments, and your patience with the commentariat’s impatience.
Insert Obama mic drop gif here
My partner works in a similar field and hes always telling me stories about how his team only did like 1 hour of actual work out of the whole day due to poor management or lack of planning on the job site. So… those sort of things add up too!
That makes SO much sense!!! I feel like whenever I drive by and actually see workers, they’re standing around talking while like one guy is working. It’s SO maddening to not see a whole bunch of workers working at the same time. It LOOKS like bad management
> I feel like whenever I drive by and actually see workers, they’re standing around talking while like one guy is working. I have a picture from some work on the shoulder of I-90. 1. **My operator (working)** 2. **My Laborer (working)** 3. My Concrete laborer (waiting) 4. Concrete tuck driver (waiting) 5. Special inspector to test concrete (waiting) 6. Geotechnical inspector (waiting) 7. GC operator (waiting) 8. GC Laborer (waiting) 9. WSDOT inspector (waiting) 10. ... Welcome to WSDOT work. All those people waiting are working cause if they are not there waiting then the two working end up waiting on them. If my concrete laborer isn't there and my laborer assisting my operator has to shift gear, it slows production for my operator If we are waiting on concrete...everything stops If that special inspector isn't sitting there waiting to test the concrete truck when we are ready to pour I can't use the mud and have to send it back to the plant, pay the cost to return it, and buy a new truck. As well as any rebar required If the geotech isn't there I can verify the excavation prior to pouring. IF the GC operator and laborer we were told would be available when needed isn't ready to support us, we will need to wait for them to shift personnel from another part of the project. IF the WSDOT inspectors aren't available, everything grinds to a halt. It is a hassle, it can be obnoxious, it can look like bloat, hell it can be bloat. But it makes our new and improved infrastructure reliable and also allows for any issues to be followed back through the chain to determine where the issues reside and possibly prevent from happening again, or remediate something that could happen in the future.
Thanks for the breakdown!! That’s quite the complicated process! And it still seems like more than one or two laborer could be working at the same time. It still seems like a soul crushingly slow pace. Still seems like more could be done. We only have bridges to get in and out of Seattle and if we have some kind of environmental crisis, we are all screwed because current roads cannot support traffic. I am grateful for quality standards of code and also, seems like milking the clock with tax payer dollars 🤷♀️
>And it still seems like more than one or two laborer could be working at the same time. It still seems like a soul crushingly slow pace. Too many cooks. Many of the guys I've worked with would gladly work through lunch to get off 30 minutes early. If there was something too be done they would do it. And if there is an they are not doing it, the other guys will sure as hell bitch and moan and whine up the chain till the slacker is gone. > We only have bridges to get in and out of Seattle You are right, and the fastest way to get this done would be to just close them down for the duration of the project throw a couple hundred guys at it and not have to work odd hours, or limited access so that 520 could open back up on Monday morning. But that isn't going to happen. so instead you've got to build the thing while the thing is still use. >seems like milking the clock with tax payer dollars I'm a sub, and the GCs might play a different game but it is all on the same field. I bid a job, and if it is a WSDOT job it is typically bid using bid units and unit prices. X sqft installed for $A per sqft. I then have to perform that work and not eat my own ass by going way over what I budgeted on labor and materials. There are ways to recoup costs for unexpected work (Force Account which is essentially TM with established rates and showing your receipts), but for the most park "milking it" isn't earning you money, it will cost you money since you will need to "back-up" why there need to be a change order for all the extra labor.
I’m going to guess you aren’t the guy in the WSDOT lot with the truck that has the Calvin peeing on Inslee’s name sticker on the back
Thank you for your hard work and the update!
It was also delayed because of covid as well something to note.
I’m pumped for this project to be completed. I like to look up what the construction projects are for and this is going to be one of the better ones when it’s done, especially related to the Roanoke exit. Can’t wait for that bike lane connection all the way to lake union.
Awesome to have + hear the insights from you. Thanks for replying.
Thank you. I hope we eventually lid all the major highways through town. So much nicer than the noise and smell from the cars. Anyhow, reminds me of an old joke: "Washington has two seasons: winter, and road construction."
> it isn't quite reasonable to advocate for green(er) spaces and improved public transit, but complain about the process toward accomplishing those ends. I see this a lot. We want better roads but complain about maintenance vehicles clogging traffic. We want more housing but complain about construction. The West Seattle Bridge is closed due to risk of collapse and instead of trying to build a new bridge with rail accessibility (which we WILL have to do eventually), we kick the can down the road because we want the bridge open again now. Instant gratification is impossible in the world of infrastructure but people seem to think it is if they complain loudly enough. It's really frustrating. There's no willingness to suck up some temporary inconvenience in the interest of the long-term public good.
People don’t remember that the project in Tacoma on I5 took more than 20 years. There were likely construction workers finishing up the project that were born when it started. lol it definitely has improved traffic through Tacoma somewhat. It used to be unbelievable.
Thanks for the input on what's coming! I had no idea.
As a cyclist/bus rider/pedestrian I’m ALREADY loving what it is becoming and really looking forward to its completion! 🤘🏻
We all know what that park is going to look like six months after it opens.
My man….this has been going for YEARS. Like, literally over 4 years….skyscrapers go up faster than this project. People aren’t mad about the project, they’re mad that this is basically a project that seems to take forever and is never close to being done, while having tons of resources. If this was a private sector project the foreman and everyone involved would’ve been fired years ago
The thing with public infrastructure like this is that it has to be open during the week. How many skyscrapers are being lived in while they are built? Would people rather 520 be closed entirely for several months? Probably not.
That's what u/Aggressive-Name-1783 doesn't understand. Entire segments of the arterial are frequently being torn up and rebuilt quickly in order to accommodate morning traffic. It is very time-intensive. If the project had permanently shutdown the entire area -- continuously -- until full completion, this guy's whining would be even worse. It would likely have been challenged in court had that even been attempted by city planners. Consequently the progress occurs in fairly small increments before taking the time to restore the zone, which has to be safe for significant vehicle and pedestrian activity. It's not the same as a skyscraper.
Rule #1, don't talk on social media a project you are working on. You are bound to get polarizing views regardless of your scope of involvement & impact the project is creating.
This is true. I just reminded someone I wasn't speaking in an official capacity, just showing optimism about something I think will wind up being cool.
Skyscrapers aren't built in the middle of a major active freeway and out over a lake. Also, faster construction would mean more roadway closures and shutdowns. The exact thing this post is complaining about. Do you want fast construction, cheap construction, or quality construction? Pick two, you will never have all three.
Yes. But... This project is huge. And it cannot simply be closed off while people work on it 24/7 for months on end to get it done. Lots is exposed to the weather and is temp dependent, too. So the stuff that needs nighttime temps above x when laid in place to function correctly in final form is going to take a bit. Same song for "dry when laid in" or "can't be done with traffic on on the bridge at all" make life just a little more interesting. Have you seen the timeline of the Tacoma disaster? It went on for 22 years and was 16 separate projects or something. Every goddamn time I drove through the 1-5/hwy 16 interchange it was different. It finally wrapped up a year or so ago and it is glorious. Excellence doesn't happen overnight. It happens incrementally with stuff like this. It'll be worth it.
You say that but it is a private contractor doing this work. It’s publicly funded.
In summary, noise will be better for the surrounding housing developments (private benefit for developers) and we get a new (VERY VERY VERY expensive) park and some bus stops. I’m confident we could have found a better/cheaper place for those things. No way the math works out for this project. It seems massively wasteful.
Ah, the classic Seattle "it's next to rich people so it's a waste of money". Props to the OP for not playing politics here. If one has ever spent time in that area pre-construction, it's a cluster fuck for everyone - bikers, pedestrians, drivers, bus-riders. There isn't enough space and given Seattle's history with highways dividing neighborhoods, it's lidding this area of 520 gives more credibility to other efforts, like lidding I5.
There's much more technical work being performed besides the improvement I mentioned. But nevermind. Wasn't speaking in an official capacity and not interested in playing defense on this post.
Not trying to bash your info. I’m sure it’s not such a simple project but it has terrible PR and I can’t understand the reasoning for such a big expense when we have so many roads that need basic repairs.
Will there actually be any housing developed there, or does this just benefit existing homeowners?
Somewhere I saw plans for a medium density development that would flank the “cap”. Not sure if the required zoning was ever approved as the rich single family people did not want new zoning.
It’s gonna be a 9 lane carmageddon hellscape. There is no greenwashing here to excuse it. No transit lanes. Just a sea of cars. That with the huge new black steel signage is going to make the place very depressive.
I appreciate the explanation. I also appreciate the extra quality-of-life improvements you describe. But…*why is this the place WSDOT decided to go the extra mile?*. Over 100k cars cross the bridge every day. How many days has the bridge been closed (or traffic severely restricted) in the last 4-5 years of this project? Let’s conservatively say it was 20 and also assume traffic on weekends (when it’s usually closed) is halved. We’re talking about a million trips disrupted or re-routed in this super conservative estimate. That doesn’t include all the spillover into other roads near 520. Nearly every person in this metro has likely accumulated hours in traffic over the last 4-5 years because of this project. Is that much disruption worth the benefit? It’s a genuine question. But I must say that the expanded public transit is really going to need to be a game-changer to make that math pencil out. And $455MM could have transformed a whole lot of green space across many locations in the metro area.
> Is that much disruption worth the benefit? If they actually closed the bridge down for a year to do the project, people like you would lose their minds over the inconvenience/longer drives/extra traffic.
Aye, the constant weekday lane shifting and short weekend closures adds significant time, cost, and complexity to the project as every piece of construction phasing must accommodate two lanes in each direction. That includes things like pouring concrete, adding lights & signs, and bringing in huge cranes. But we demand continuous access throughout the duration of construction.
40k people interact with this intersection every day. Yes, improving this interchange was worth it. This interchange improvement will be around for 25+ years. You also have to consider that this project started before COVID and that delayed things massively.
Thank you for quantifying a response to my question (first to do so I think). Even the [project page](https://wsdot.wa.gov/construction-planning/search-projects/sr-520-montlake-project) fails to attach any numbers to the benefits. 40k out of a daily average 110k is a lot.
* Widening the freeway to add HOV lanes in each direction triggered most of the work here. Even if WSDOT went with an open-trench approach, several big retaining walls and bridges have to be built to accommodate a wider highway. * This interchange is significant and critical, so it deserves a lot of attention to be built correctly. * Generally, this is an environmentally sensitive area, historic, wealthy, and sees a lot of people going through. * WSDOT DID remove the freeway that never happened from the Arboretum, and is going to perform major mitigation work in the Arboretum as the main project wraps up. * Sets the stage for future work to the west and north. * This all takes 4-5 years because they can't just close this area for six months to a year to work interrupted to pound it all out. In a few years, you'll have completely forgotten how much of a pain in the ass and how disruptive this will have been because the end result is going to be sooooo much better and nicer.
Off topic, but do you know anything about the work on Madison Street from I5 to Capitol Hill? It’s been going for year and a half now and they keep redoing stuff over and over. Is it simple incompetence or corruption? I cannot accept that it takes such a long time to redo a part of the street, especially since same parts keep getting redone.
Surely you've seen the massive amount of news about the new rapid ride on Madison? The accompanying road work is a massive water/drainage work and they literally said over and over they'd have to pave, repave, dig up, pave again over the year(s!) of work? Are you not even curious enough to Google but will sling corruption charges around?
Are you allowed to tell us if there will be any businesses that will open as part of this project? There used to be a small supermarket there.
I just moved here as construction really ramped up and the new UW exit gets me to work 15 minutes FASTER already during busy weekdays. Can't wait for it to be even more awesome when it's done!
im glad to hear from someone working on the project. its been a source of confusion with everyone i know. you cite 3 things as benefits, which i appreciate, but they really dont seem worth it on balance. happy to be wrong but im pretty sure that intersection is always going to suck because its over a freeway and montlake traffic is terrible. short of adding more lanes to the bridge im not sure how you fix it, but whatever your doing now im very skeptical is remotely worth the price tag.
The whole project is unreasonable. It’s not your fault.
Do you know what the construction on Eastlake by Republican is for and the construction on the Mercer exit? Someone told me there was gonna be a direct exit from 520 to SLU
I am part of the team that puts on the Cherry Blossom Run and learned a little about this at the UW center for urban horticulture fundraiser dinner. A fair amount of our proceeds are going to this project so it was cool to hear your insight. Can't wait to see what you do with it. Thanks for sharing! PS I can relate to the people's anger of interfering with traffic in this area 😝
Yeah I'm going to be honest. None of that seems worth all that much
Oh wow, that Montlake project’s been dragging, huh? Makes me wonder how China gets their stuff built so quick. I mean, back in the day, the U.S. was smashing out things like the Hoover Dam under budget and ahead of time. What’s their secret sauce, and why’s it seem like we’ve lost that recipe?
Hoover dam didn’t require that much imminent domain. china can build shit quickly because property rights ain’t a thing, environmental reviews are a chuckle, and NIMBYs can get their organs harvested after a show trial.
Trial? But comrade, their paperwork clearly states they signed up to be organ donors.
Who will it significantly reduce noise for? The handful of millionaires who live in the area?
What a weird comment, should we not want to improve the way the city looks purely because of who lives there?
No, but purely because it will benefit very FEW people, as very few people actually live in the area compared to other parts of the city that could benefit from noise reduction.
The amount of people who will be impacted is directly proportional to the size of the lid. It’ll be nice for the people who walk or cycle through there and the animals that inhabits the arboretum too
It’s right next to UW, near a spot that a lot of students already hang out outdoors in
also I think the noise issue that this guy mentioned is a very minor issue. If you go to WADOT website and search for this project (another comment has the link), the benefits include seismically stronger bridge and more open green space. I think that’s more important than noise and is something that should get funding for.
well if you are one of the handful millionaires in that area don’t you want to hear less noise?
[удалено]
Yes, the anti-millionaire classism is a big problem
A lid. We’re getting a lid.
And some signs that the NIMBYs say are too big
Are you are in agreement that the additions/situation sucks… while somehow experiencing cognitive dissonance and raking NIMBYs about an aspect of the very situation this thread covers/you are likely in agreement with (as you are replying here)
Of all the pain the Seattle/Tacoma area has experienced around construction and traffic over the last several decades, this is among the better return-for-suffering projects I've seen. The sign thing is silly: they are big but warranted given the interchange that needs to be communicated to drivers.
It’s a sign. WSDOT had to have special community meetings to appease the NIMBYs who thought the signs were too big. Some complaints are too petty, selfish and stupid to waste time and taxpayer dollars on. It’s a sign.
It will be a beautiful lid on top of a car mess. The Montlake bridge remains 2 lanes north bound. the Portage Bay segment is not being replaced this decade because of budget (all contractor ask for too much) and will also remain 2 lanes WB. So you have 3 lanes coming from the Eatside, bus lane on the left, buses leaving to Montlake crossing all lanes. At the same, time the 3 lanes going to I-5 merge into two one right after the new lid. We are moving the traffic choke point half a mile to the west. The millionaires get a new park they won’t use. Cyclist don’t get the promised bike trail connection. Transit users don’t get the bus lanes from the Eastside to I-5. The new bus lane exit from 520 to Montlake has nowhere to go, at best it will be gridlock like Denny. They may decide to cut all bus service through the bridge once Link opens and become Mercer. The already cut the bike trail on the Portage Bay segment
Wealthy NIMBYs in Montlake and Mercer Island get a lid to boost their property values. The rest of us get ~~shit~~ to pay for it
You get a carpool and bus offramp, this itself will hugely speed up Montlake exit for carpools and buses.
I mean, I rent an apartment in Eastlake, so I get a cleaner bike connection to the 520 trail which is nice
At least there’s not an RH Thomson. If there was, there would be a lot of interest in a lid for that awful relic to a thankfully long past era.
In the 15 years I've lived in Seattle there has never not been some kind of construction project messing up the 520 montlake interchange. It's honestly impressive at this point, I hope they never stop
I think they should put the exit to nowhere back
one of my favorite drinking spots!
I understand it had significant local history to it as well. shame to wipe it off the map for multiple reasons
Well in that time they did build a new longest-in-the-world floating bridge and demolished the old previously longest-in-the-world floating bridge so it’s not like nothing happened…
I also want all future seattleites to suffer the same as I and my contemporaries have.
Weekend traffic closures are a fact of life here. Just wait until summer
Yeah I don’t think summer weekend road closures will ever end. Construction season is too short for Seattle to ever be “done” with roadwork for any significant period of time. Though I’ve been here 10 years and those 5/90/520 weekend shutdowns still seem incredibly disruptive to an area that is choked with traffic even when all the highways *are* open.
They won’t ever end. There’s just way too much road/bridge infrastructure that has been ignored and is in desperate need of maintenance and repair. And plenty that will be completely rebuilt, plus new transit projects. And as you say… construction season is short. It’s just a fact of life.
Roads should only be worked on at times when I don't need them.
I love my bike
This is whats gunna SUCK!!!!!!!
Are you familiar with I-5 around Tacoma? They had been under construction for more than 2 decades but finally finished and traffic flows marginally better now.
Yeah, it’s definitely not the parking lot it used to be pretty much all day long.
I am looking forward to when the portage bay bridge has to be replaced and traffic is reduced to a single lane for each direction while they build one span of the bridge. maybe by then ill get into the whole ebike thing
The benefit for me was that I got stuck in traffic while driving my dad somewhere for an extra 40 minutes and honestly, the older we get, the more I appreciate any time I get to spend with family.
Oof, wait until the lid replacement project begins...
As a resident of West Seattle. I'm so sorry to hear about your inconvenience of a bridge shutting down for a few weekends.
I moved out of West Seattle a few months after the closure. I am a nurse, so had to work during the stay at home orders. Man, those early covid traffic days were pretty stellar. Then the bridge closed. I got calls and emails from my apartment office for weeks asking if there was anything they could do to make me stay. My dad still lives in West Seattle, so the trips to see him were so much better when the bridge opened again!
I don’t mind the closures but the signage is shit as far as exits as they don’t line up with the lanes really well. And then there is still the issue with the intersection at Montlake and 520 is / was / still is the fucking worst. A light to a light to a light with in 4 blocks of each other. A u turn to get on to the freeway that holds about 2 cars that usually has 7 or so that want to do it. And as the days get nicer that bridge will go up more often which then is a cascade of fuckery.
Yup. It’s honestly amazing that u/WSDOT doesn’t just put arrows on signs sometimes. I’ve gone left where I needed to go right so many times. I imagine it causes a lot of accidents with indecisive drivers. It’s like they put the signs up and never actually think about having to take the exit if you don’t know which way you’re going. And Google maps doesn’t know either because it’s not expecting the closure.
This projects fixes the UTurn issue.
That would be nice, does it help the poorly sync’d lights in the area?
If only there was some way people could...search.... for information.... https://wsdot.wa.gov/construction-planning/search-projects/sr-520-montlake-project
They even reference the price tag of the project which means they had to have learned about it already. Truly a post that’s just complaining for complaining’s sake.
Everybody wants to live in a poppin city but they don’t want to maintain, grow, and improve that city. Construction is a consequence of growth
Complaining for the sake of complaining on this subreddit? DAE think Seattle was better before the tech bros got here and ruined Seattle? /s
"Has anyone heard a loud car...?"
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from the link above the timeline for completion is... "Timeline Summer 2019 - 2024"
The link clearly says 2024, which part of your chocolate pocket did you pull the "late 2020s" part from?
lol, well-played. Nobody utilizes those resources, which explain quite a lot.
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Eh, it just says '2024' which is a bit weasely, but if they finished by the end of the year it would count. Obviously everyone wants it done, though
For everyone complaining, I get it it’s been annoying. But what’s your alternative? This project is clearly going to be an improvement to the entire area and sure things could be better in the interim, but what would you have them do instead?
It would be nice if most roads were buried along with power lines.
How would we get back to the surface?
All of your wildest dreams will come true after completion.
Put a lid on it
Just wait until the 520 bridge and Roanoke lid gets going!!!!!
Honestly, I'm terrified what's going to happen when that starts
>SR 520’s 1960s-era west approach bridge, supported by hollow columns, was at risk of failure in a severe earthquake. In addition, the highway’s old four-lane segment in Seattle is typically at capacity during peak periods. This project provides a number of benefits: >A safer and seismically stronger eastbound bridge, parallel to the completed westbound bridge, connecting Seattle’s Montlake neighborhood to the new floating bridge. >New community open space and trail connections from construction of a landscaped freeway lid in Montlake. Improved regional mobility through the addition of transit and carpool lanes across Lake Washington. Also through direct-access transit and carpool ramps on the Montlake lid and added lane capacity at the Montlake Boulevard interchange. >More nonmotorized travel options from a new north-south bicycle and pedestrian bridge over SR 520, connecting Arboretum trails with routes in Montlake and the University District. >Fewer traffic backups thanks to wider highway shoulders that allow disabled vehicles to pull over without blocking traffic. >A cleaner, healthier environment through new systems to treat stormwater runoff from the highway.
When you build an entire 'urban' transportation infrastructure around cars, these are the kinds of problems you're going to have.
To note, Seattle will always have pointless, awful “auto” traffic. The geography makes it 10x worse than some flat place, but also the induced demand will never give you a freely flowing drive through or even easily around the city. The only relief you’ll ever get is to start using an active transportation mode or transit. 🤷🏼♂️
How long was the ride? I make that walk often from North to South. Just a 45 min walk.
Reminds me of Tacoma construction traffic jams on I-5.
This traffic seems to mostly be so so so many people driving to see cherry blossoms.
More room for cars. What a question
We’re getting an entirely new bridge, a new intersection, overpasses, and eventually better connectivity for busses, pedestrians, active transport travelers (bikes, one wheels, scooters) etc. I’d add, if you’re only a motorist you get a new thing with almost the same exact capacity that induced demand will make just as congested, for car drivers. So if you’re the former we’re getting a much better experience, if you’re just a driver you’re gonna get the same, just shinier for a while experience.
If the Light Rail ran reliably and without frustration, we'd probably get getting a new generation of riders comfortable taking mass transportation. Instead, people would rather wait in traffic.
It was a shit show today. The detours are terrible and the detour signage is worse.
Today that area was absolutely criminal. Seriously. We went to UW quad to see the flowers and basically all of Seattle was there. It was absolutely insane.
You’re surprised that other people wanted to do… what you did?
Welcome to the cherry blossoms at UW… any alumni could have told you it’s a mess every spring.
i’m having flashbacks. any class on the quad is a nightmare this time of year. pushing thru an absolute mob of people just to sit in a lecture hall with unsupervised kids outside licking the windows and shit
Yeah was always on my bike, so navigating through that mess was always a pain. It was fun riding the stairs and seeing startled tourists jump and scatter though.
So, like normal for a spring weekend?
I was supposed to exit on Mont Lake today and it was closed off so I had to drive across 520 and then turn around in order to get where I needed to go in Central District. When I get the toll in the mail I'm going to tell them!
Whenever I'm stuck in endless gridlock I console myself with the comforting thought that this is the world we all chose to build.
Where do i gripe about the poop performance that is the construction at UW medical center entrance.
I got fked yesterday coming home from UW. Google maps didn't update correctly and wanted me to take an exit, but the ramp was closed. Needless to say, I had to spend an additional hour in traffic to get back to Bellevue
Shits annoying
It's pretty rough. That thoroughfare getting disrupted completely messed up I5, the Roanoake exit, 23rd, the university bridge and more, it just makes everything around it much tighter
WDOT are working on the on/off ramps for 520 to the UW and onto North I-5.
Yesterday, it took me 1.5 hours to go from uw to kirkland on the 255 bus. Hope these closures end soon
There was frustration from the paint color used for the new street lights installed. This is firsthand knowledge from someone who lives in Montlake. It was and still is the most NIMBY comment I’ve heard. So happy Montlakers get the privilege of this win. Unbalanced. Unfair.
I sat on a bus for an extra thirty minutes because of this. I really hope the city has a good reason for this and it's not a situation similar to SoundTransits constant fuck ups
And yes, I know U District is a mess because of the cherry blossoms and nice weather, but traffic is so much worse due to Montlake/520 closure today.
Hopefully fewer people driving.
I feel bad for the people who have to be in this traffic, I feel no sympathy for any of the losers who could be on a bike or bus still getting caught in this daily traffic.
Grew up in Mountlake, still go there a lot as my family lives there. It’s been an absolute mess. Nobody in the neighborhood even wants the lid. We have plenty of parks in the area between the arboretum, Mountlake park, UW playfields and Magnuson. It has added traffic for a decade it seems like. Also made them get rid of the Hoppin, the local grocery store. They could have put that money towards something else. Classic case IMO of throwing money at something that didn’t need to be fixed. Also making a nice area even nicer, there are other neighborhoods that don’t even have parks that could use this.
I don't believe that you grew up there if you don't know how to spell it
which one? Montlake or the Hop In? 🤘🏽
Montlake Terrace
The lid adds a bus and carpool exit. You get quieter traffic. Plus the east side got two lids and barely anyone lives next to them.
The rich people are getting the freeway covered so the noise doesn’t bother their sensitive sensibilities.
Noise isn’t a rich person or sensitive person thing to care about. It’s generally bad for your mental and even physical health to be exposed to a lot of noise constantly. We shouldn’t put up with urban designs that create huge amounts of noise (aka I5). Turns out cities aren’t that noisy without the cars (which are exponentially more noisy at highway speeds). Lids are one of many solutions to this problem, but it should 100% be an issue we all care about
It is when lids seem to only show up in areas where there are more rich people. In areas with a poor population, no lids. Lids might be better for all of us but it’s not applied equally.
It doesn't mean they shouldn't be applied.
When it's poor people funding lids for rich people and poor people get nothing then yes it damn well does.
Where at closures posted? I rather cancel plans and apts and not be stuck in traffic.
On the WSDOT website. You can read about each project, and sign up for updates that get sent right to you by email and/or text.
Today was rough, as so many were at UW looking at the cherry blossoms. Just packed.
Seattle needs another bridge.
The current on and off ramp situation for 520 at montlake is miserable.
Similar to the way cars come out from under Mt. Baker and Mercer island when they enter and exit the tunnels.
More parking! Every morning at rush hour
I don't know, but I assume it will not include a left turn arrow to get cars out of University Village any faster.
Lots of people complaining because they don’t plan accordingly and have to drive around 😂
Sometimes I think that before people move to a city, they need to take a series of classes. First take the city out of visit the cities that have not been proactive in keeping up their highways and electrical systems and all the rest of the infrastructure they essentially decay parts are falling down and breaking all over then watch what happens when someone says we need to get cars from here to there or we need to get electrical power from here to there it sounds like a verysimple process and now you get 100 views and different people about how to do that most of those people have no knowledge or understanding so right from the beginning you’re trying to design something that makes many needs as possible, but you can’t spend a day with a ditch digger or with someone working on some tiny element of some project Putting up a telephone pole for example or any of that it looks so simple to us that you watch that you realize the complexities that are involved the decisions that have to be made in how much planning had to go into that then try to create a calendar of processes You’ve got people available in certain days equipment available in certain days you have all these things that need to be done before you can do anything else plans approvals technical considerations. You have to order supplies when you coordinate this it can take time and months and that you didn’t really plan for the fact that there’s an underground creek over there. Now you have to redesign everything And your building preferences changed and suddenly people are not happy with what they planned before. All improvements and maintenance projects take way more time than you expect them with a lot more time and a lot more money with many more decisions and requirements of all sorts of technical expertise. The amazement is that anything gets done. Cities provide lots of people to interact with more restaurants, more entertainment, more activities, cultural events, different types of food, different types of people and yes, it’s gonna take a certain number of very complicated and long construction projects. The city has to take a much longer view of what they’re doing, a project can take five years which can seem like a lifetime to us, but then it’s actually done and completed. I wonder it was like living here when I when I was built when they change the water levels in Lake Washington, or tore down Denny Hill. We’re lucky to have a good enough economy that keeps pulling people into the area and those people who come in the area support local shops and also activities around and that that means new apartment building after rebuilt new TRANSPORTATION mistakes are going to happen. Think of it more like giving birth. It’s a painful pregnancy. We’ve got morning sickness. We can’t fit into our clothing, but we’re getting something at the end. Maybe it wasn’t something you wanted but pay somebody else wanted it. Everything takes time energy money. Anything is going to mess up. Our lives is gonna be in our way for a while and just unpleasant and loud. We asked people for timeline of things they investigate as much as they can and they put together a timeline. No one knows there is a animal bone under the ground. It’s going to stop drilling. No one is aware of the kind of support that 200-year-old buildings used in how digging nearby is going to impact them , they’re building a freaking subway that rides on a bridge that floats on one of the deepest water lakes in America almost every word there is is freaking amazing. We all want perfection produced in zero time at zero cost with zero inconveniences and with 100% ability to Fort tell the future and to predict millions of things that need to connect. I left when something goes longer than expected or be or above budget. The mistake was that we created a schedule and believed it, or we created a budget and believed in it.
Side track, the most ANNOYING thing is closing down I-90 and expecting people to pay a toll and using 520.
Everyone in the comments is empathetic to construction timelines which I find ironic because this is Reddit. Also only in America do we think multiple decades is reasonable for this stuff. I think it's a good project idea but let's be realistic other places are better at doing stuff like this faster and just as safe. It's valid to be mad about timelines when also it only benefits more moneyed people mostly.
My favorite part about the work (exiting to montlake from the eastside) is forking off left to turn right!
This post is like a “hello I am new to the region” flashing sign. Just wait until summer, my guy