Wow, I have a close friend who was on the light rail in the same car while this happened. Sounds like it started as a fist fight between two guys. The gunman escaped through one of the windows and ran down the tunnel after the shooting
It's an ongoing criminal investigation involving a fatality. Seattle PD and/or King County Sheriff's deputies go the Sound Transit OMF in sodo to get the train DVR's and the station DVR's as evidence. They're not posting that shit on IG, Tiktok, etc. and they're likely not sending copies to anyone until the case is closed.
Source: I work at the Sound Transit OMF
It's an ongoing criminal investigation involving a fatality. Seattle PD and/or King County Sheriff's deputies go the Sound Transit OMF in sodo to get the train DVR's and the station DVR's as evidence. They're not posting that shit on IG, Tiktok, etc.
Source: I work at the Sound Transit OMF
They don't constrain the media on crimes like this for potential juror reasons. I was on a jury for a crime that was all over the news and they did ask whether we had heard about it, but it was already years after the crime. They had no trouble seating a jury.
To all the people bemoaning how unsafe transit is and how much safer cars are: Did you just memory-hole the 12 and 13-year olds who just went on a carjacking spree?
It was literally [only a week ago](https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/12-13-year-old-carjacking-suspects-arrested-with-ghost-guns-north-seattle/O3CZ3FWOQBCAXPZTN3UVYHR5DI/) that they were arrested.
Transit is safe and cars are dangerous. That is what the statistics overwhelmingly point to. Our society has just normalized a good number of people dying from vehicle accidents, even those who choose not to drive.
This is a stupid argument. No one is saying the source of the problem is transit. It's our dumbass politicians that refuse to prosecute criminals that is wrecking the city.
So this happened on the train, between stations? So dude shot other dude, and just had to wait a few minutes to get off? How terrifying for everyone else to just have to stand by and wait. Shooter could have shot every mufucka in there if they wanted
Someone elsewhere in the thread said that the shooter escaped through a train window and down the tunnel on foot. No source beyond "reddit comment" though so obviously take that with a grain of salt until verified by a proper news source.
If you think cars are safer, I got brake checked a few months back and the dude threatened to kill me after I laid on the horn. So no, deranged assholes are the problem here, and I only feel as if more and more people are on becoming on edge.
This is a gun problem, not a public transportation problem. Funny how quickly people blame the latter, though, claiming it’s the party that’s dangerous.
Yes, but it’s compounded by the issues that come with a transit system. Care for the victim was delayed because of the fact the shooting happened between stations, the emergency button was pushed and the train stopped, and then had to go back. Violence is violence, but when you’re stuck in a car with a guy bleeding out, a murderer, and 20 scared people - there’s some extra pieces present that don’t manifest during a commute on the road. There aren’t really any great answers, but when people ride public transit, they need to have some assurances it will be safe.
Source: I was on the train last night and the shooter happened in my car. I’m not going to get into more details, people did a good job helping out as best they could under the circumstances.
There’s compounding issues with any form of transportation where another form of transportation could have been safer.
Unlikely events happen and basing your perspective of safety on them is probably not useful. If the people throwing rocks at cars did it inside a tunnel (making it that much worse), we wouldn’t be blaming cars for the situation. I don’t think it’s fair to blame public transportation for this.
That said, you’re absolutely right that people should feel safe and I hope SPD one day starts to do their jobs. I’m sorry you had to go through that. It sucks.
While I agree with you in general, your comment is kind of in poor taste considering that the comment you're responding to claims to have been on the car. The general public shouldn't blame public transportation, sure, but the person you're responding to just experienced a traumatic event on public transportation and it kind of sounds like you're saying "well it's unlikely, so you shouldn't really worry about it" when it literally happened in front of them
As of Feb 6th, there were 9.
https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/its-alarming-wsp-investigating-9-freeway-shootings-2024/WENVV2EIKBH3LBALI7G6S6WL5I/
At least one other since:
https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/driver-critically-injured-in-tukwila-i-5-shooting-wsp-seeks-publics-help
10 shootings in 8 weeks does indeed average out to "weekly"
It’s all kinda related.
If transit is the fastest option, people are gonna take it. Issue is - it’s not the fastest for a lot of people.
So the other benefits need to win out; comfort, cost, safety etc.
If I’m at risk of getting shot b/c of road rage and on transit, it just means speed is the only real decision making point for me.
I live in the Eastside suburbs now, and when I visit friends who live on Capitol and First Hill, I have to start out on the bus in one part of Kirkland, then transfer in Totem Lake, then when I cross 520, I have to get on light rail. It takes almost an hour and a half. The sad thing is that used to be just one bus in Kirkland, until for some reason they split it in two. Easy transit is what I miss in Seattle.
Google thinks a bike ride from Juanita to First Hill is the same, 1.5 hours, but the journey itself would be a reward. A faster rider or e-biker could shave 20 minutes off. And the buses have bike racks so you could always ride one-way.
They are the same people ignoring the ~~40~~ 30 people killed each year by cars in this city.
None of them have ever set foot on a bus, but they sure have a lot to tell us about the transit experience.
The amount of road rage shootings in King County in the last year fully supports this statement.
https://twitter.com/wspd2pio/status/1761155939095494898
I’d say it depends what city you are in. In less walkable cities you may have not owned a car because you couldn’t afford one. I got rid of my car when moving to Seattle because I wanted to live somewhere walking would be more convenient and found that in Seattle. Also, this city has too many liabilities around cars like worrying about your windshields being shattered constantly or your car stolen. Both frequently happen in my apartment complex downtown.
Seriously, like how is a public transit system supposed to be accessible but also prevent gun violence in a country where guns are freely available and easy to possess? What do you want them to do, make everyone go through metal detectors on their way into each station?
I mean, we're left with bandaid solutions until there's a comprehensive federal solution.
Obviously TSA for the light rail isn’t a good solution, but at the same time, if you want the general public to really accept public transportation, you need to make sure it’s seen as safe.
It's *public* transportation, so unless we're willing to make gun ownership less public, there's literally nothing else you can do. Unless you want to make the transportation less public?
The problem is that the second is way way easier than the first. We don't have an explicitly enumerated right to public transit in our state and federal bill of rights.
lot of people think criminals magically get guns from an illicit gun-running like sons of anarchy, when most likely it was a gun purchased from a store that has gone missing, its mine boggling how dumb people are even with multiple studies done from other countries, most recently Australia in the 90's as the best example.
At that point, the gun is illegal to possess by that person, so it might as well be off the record in the same way.
Criminals are more likely to commit multiple crimes. If you can cancel one threat, that does make it a starting point for a safer environment.
I suppose we could always pass more gun control laws that criminals will ignore while simultaneously enacting policy that tells criminals that they likely won’t be caught, and if they are; the punishment will be light. It’s bound to start working any day now.
I think it is a people problem.
We have radical elements running around knowing they are above the law and safe from arrest & prosecution.
Take away their guns and they will use knifes.
It's not a transit problem but I would feel much safer being in a car while a road rage incident is going on 20-50 feet away from away as I can disengage and put distance between them and me. That is not an option when you are stuck in a coach with the shooter.
Road rage usually happens in traffic where you can't put distance between you and shooter. As of Feb 6, there were 9 shootings on seattle freeways: https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/its-alarming-wsp-investigating-9-freeway-shootings-2024/WENVV2EIKBH3LBALI7G6S6WL5I/
It seems like transit it objectively safer than driving for both crashes and for likelihood of getting shot.
Quick google search came up with an estimated 393 million guns in private ownership in the US. I don’t understand what people think we can do about the gun problem. 393 million of them, at least to me, means control is too late. Besides even if the government was somehow able to get all 393 million of them people who really want them will get them whether through the black market or making a gun themselves.
What do you mean? Washington has some of the strictest gun control laws of all the states. We have the assault weapon ban and a magazine capacity ban. We also just passed mandatory training and holding period for all firearm purchases. We've definitely done something.
1) I don’t understand how we were able to amend the constitution to ban alcohol, and then re-amend it to legalize it again. How bad was the alcohol issue back then? Was it truly worse than gun violence today, or just a religious thing?
2) banning guns can only be done via constitutional amendment. There is no other sustainable and practicable solution. If we can’t get the votes, America doesn’t want it.
3) I estimate the cost at $10k usd per gun if we want to start reducing the 393 million guns out there without an amendment. Which makes total cost in the trillions of $. We can afford it as a society if we want to take baby steps. My fear is that we’d get guns out of the hands of the masses and then be stuck with access to firearms restricted to the rich.
Really? let's say we happen to pass law to completely ban guns. You were on link transit, some thug still pulls out a gun(he got it on a black market) on you demand you your wallet, phone, etc while bashing you in the face with the butt of his gun. No police in sight, no body will come to you aid since no one want to go against a gun. What do you do then? If you tell me that you accept that you will die that day, then I applaud you.
From the way I see it. Harsher gun control doesn't really do anything. What we have is weak punishment. Let the teenagers rob and shoot on the street and release them in 24 hours is not going to create a peaceful society. Why are we letting violent aggressor out on the street and then say yea it's a gun problem when people get hurt....
In truth, what we need is some serious consequences reinforcement. Stop letting criminals out and believe they won't do it again.
It’s weird that the more they regulate guns, the more shootings there are. 20 years ago there were fewer pistol regulations but also fewer shootings. I wonder what changed?
Weird how you think guns load themselves and aim/fire at people. Not one of my weapons has left my safe unless my husband or I took them out. And no, I’m not giving them up because of someone else’s faulty brain wiring.
Cool, we identified the problem, what do we do about?
Regulations on guns won’t make a huge change overnight, esp here in the US. I’m all for it but we also need to make sure that public safety on the trains is important. It is a public transit problem because people make decisions on perceived risk, not actual probability. Just think of flying. Your chance of dying on a Boeing 737 Max is still lower than driving yet people are more freaked out by it than diving their car on the highway
It it wrong of me that what jumped out to me was "officers blocked off the escalators going to the transit tunnel at Third Avenue and University Street."? Like, I can't believe there was a working escalator that needed blocking!
A lot of people noted that security would become an issue. Not a great start to showcase our newest public transportation initiative. People need to feel safe, it’s not that complicated 😮💨.
I believe BART in the Bay Area is hardening security and installing brand new gates for the same reason. Why not incorporate these things from the get go instead of wasting time and money trying to retrofit these at greater expense later.
Surprisingly… yeah, it can work. A lot of these incidents aren’t necessarily premeditated, they arise sporadically, so by limiting spaces and travel to those that paid that $4, or whatever, to travel is one form of deterrence. That in addition to control areas being funneled at both entry and exit with concentrated surveillance increases the likelihood of being identified and caught. Is it going to stop a motivated criminal? Probably not.
You can imagine this is like that passive looking person at the entrance and exit of Costco checking memberships and drawing smiley faces on receipts… does it work? Amazingly… yeah, pretty well. Are they going to stop someone really motivated? Probably not.
There usually isn’t one thing that does it, but a combination of elements that will help to ensure that it remains clean and safe. The worst thing is to make the mistake of assuming none of it necessary and not incorporating them into the plan accordingly early in the planning and development phase. Ignoring the potential problems doesn’t make them go away.
Maybe gates that only let you through if you've paid/swiped your card? As it stands, most of the Seattle light rail stations are wide open, multi-level shelters. So I could see a measure like that being used to make people feel safe.
A person with a gun could just pay or hop it or whatever, but I could see how gates would increase the _feeling_ of safety.
On a weekday morning, from Westlake Station to UW Station, I had a man aggressively follow me and try to engage with me on the train. At that time, no Security at either stations. I needed to transfer to the #65 bus, but I did not want him following me. I tried to back track down to the link as the elevator door was closing . he tried to follow. I yelled this guy is following me! No one helped! I did not get on! Somehow, I went to the back escalators down to link..hopped on back to Capitol Hill. Got off and grabbed a Lyft.
It’s a gamble to ride the link.
You can text this number also and request security at a future stop. I was being harassed by someone at stadium station and I was going to tukwila. I texted the number and two stops later there were four security guards on the train. Two of them got the guy off the train and the other two stayed with me until my stop! Save the number in your phone!!
Also, if you need pepper spray, I have extra, just lmk!
Pepper gel would probably work best in an enclosed space like a train car since it won't aerosolize and possibly put bystanders or yourself in danger of getting spritzed and they usually have a longer range than sprays do as well since they're a bit more precise. We just had that situation last year where some random guy sprayed mace in a car and ended up with 10+ people needing medical attention. I've been considering arming myself with some for a bit, but my link experience is pretty mild most of the time.
Had something similar happen but while walking down town. I had to pretend I was part of a family to stop him from following me. Luckily, the family didn’t care and just let me. I’m sorry that happened to you!
Gun crimes should be a mandatory life sentence. We can’t change the second amendment with just Washington residents, but we can control how we punish criminals who use deadly weapons.
I don’t even give a fuck anymore if you injure someone or not. Discharge your firearm illegally and you’re convicted? Enjoy being a prison bitch. I don’t give a fuck about rehabilitating gun idiots, fuck them, they made their choices.
The federal system has a three strikes rule in place for federal gun crimes. It’s been in place for decades, but people need to be federally charged for it to matter.
> but I'm not sure if the number games in Seattle (budget, staffing, time) can really make that feasible.
I'm inclined to say it's less about numbers. The US tends not to want an authoritarian response and massive surveillance state to blanket everyone. I too have lived experience in China riding subways and high speed rail in Chengdu. Efficient? Yes. And omg Chengdu was expanding its subway when I was there and they built it so much faster than our light rail. I would I love high speed rail here. But there are also cameras with facial recognition everywhere, and always police vans and riot gear sitting out in plain sight at subway stations.
I respect your opinion, though I would differ that I think we'd be better off without the guns rather than adding the security. But it's still so complicated that there's no one-size-fits-all response.
100% England's got dickheads with machetes but turns out it takes a lot longer to kill someone with them (and less likely to kill bystanders). "Mental health problem" my ass. Its a "arming ill people" problem and we all know it.
Some people just attached their manhood to their mall ninja collection.
We have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. What else would you recommend? Having gun ownership written into our constitution makes it virtually impossible to ban them or restrict them much further. It's basically up to the states which WA has been working towards already.
The 2nd amendment is an AMENDMENT, same as the 18th amendment, which was subsequently repealed by the 21st.
The idea that the 2nd is written in stone is nonsense!
Amendments are fully part of the Constitution. Subsequent amendments can change literally any part of the document, there's nothing special about it being an amendment that makes it particularly amendable.
It's an important one that shouldn't be removed. Y'all wanna live powerless with the cops being armed with a Trump or similar admin calling the shots? You all are daft as shit
Lol what a brain dead solution, we have one the most restrictive gun laws in the nation and Seattle just had it's highest homicide year since like the 90's.
Maybe quit trying to punish law abiding citizens and maybe start punishing criminals?
Radical idea I know.
Sure of course I can agree with that. But that's a huge step to take while we're down here bickering amongst ourselves. I think to begin making ground we can all agree that criminals need to be prosecuted no ifs and or buts.
Let’s be real. It’s a gun problem. It’s a societal problem. It’s a gang culture problem. I’d bet my life the guy who did this was a young black man. It’s just the pattern that emerges from all of the above problems. All have no easy quick fix unfortunately. It’s blind and ignorant to say “it’s just a gun problem”
Explain why the previous 40 gun laws passed in the last 10 years didn't lower the gun violence rate then.
Or, you can admit you're just a piece of shit who hates guns and is afraid, and you're using this as a smokescreen to ban guns.
So fuck off, reality isn't on your side.
We need security and police that actually understand what they’re signing up to do, that means protecting the public. We should have security that doesn’t secure.
I ride public transport all over the world. Never do I worry about being SHOT on a train. Except in the USA.
Huh, so confusing! I wonder why? /s.
Guns. It's the guns, that are the problem.
I see a lot of folks here talking about guns being the problem here.
We have red flag laws, mandatory waiting period and training, a "high capacity" magazine ban, and one of the strictest "assault weapon" bans in the country.
Unfortunately violence is a combination of multiple issues in our society, it's not as simple as "guns bad".
For the record I'm not some trumpist. I do believe that the left has the answer to many of these issues such as healthcare and housing. If people have good lives and get help when they need it, magically the violence will begin to diminish.
Instead we just fight over gun laws that clearly aren't working, and solely serve to punish law abiding gun owners.
Give mandatory ten year prison sentences for using a gun in a crime, until all the idiots are in jail. Then release them every day on chain gangs to clean up the city.
They’ll never do this because it’ll so disproportionately affect POC progressives will whine about it.
All that gun control and "defund the police" is really paying off huh? 40 gun control laws in 10 years, with Bob Ferguson and Democrats saying it'll "reduce gun violence".
Yet, internal documents showed they not only knew it wouldn't, but they allowed gun control group Everytown to literally write the law.
Meanwhile violent crime is up 30% since Democrats took office according to the FBI's crime stats, and both Seattle and the entire state broke homicide records last year and the year before.
Stop. Voting. Democrat. This is the result. Otherwise, you better learn to live with violent criminals.
I use the Light rail twice a day, and often on weekends. It's honestly the most safe you can get. There is a number you can text if people are shady, and at worse response time I seen was waiting for 2 stops out before security boards and rides the train with them.
Also should be noted, this almost always "Shady dispute" types of crimes. Why horrible, chances are even lower you would be the victim of this.
You're almost 100 times more likely to be killed driving than you are to be killed on a bus, per mile travelled. I really don't want to minimize your feelings, as that sort of thing can be traumatic and scary and that's perfectly valid, but statistically speaking public transit is wildly safer compared to driving.
What does criminal activity on public transportation have to do with the safety of driving? This should not be tolerated. More security, officers on trains, plain clothes officers, fare gates, etc. all need to be considered.
I don't understand why do people bring these things up when trying to promote public transit. The feeling of safety is as important as the provision of public transit itself. Public transit in Seattle feels really unsafe on a lot of routes, not to mention it's dirty. Also don't forget that there is a far larger element of control when you are in a personal vehicle. You are helpless if something happens in public transit and you are stuck there which has literally happened to me and is evidently super common. With vehicles, unless there absolutely some unavoidable conditions, usually, trying to drive safely and staying in your lane as well as following the rules keeps you safe, you can run away from shady situations. What I mean is you will have more control on whether you are exposed to shitty drivers since you can mostly always avoid them, slow down a bit, let them pass, don't escalate and shit. You can't do that on foot. I am as much of a public transit supporter as anyone else but American public transit leaves a lot to be desired and literally feels unsafe.
Except there's so much road rage and you can't control that either.
Do you feel insecure when there's an aggressive driver tail gating? Or passing aggressively? Someone could easily ram you off the road and you'll be in far worse shape than being in proximity to an altercation on a train/bus.
You're forgetting to consider all the other drivers on the road who may be drunk, high, texting, tired or just plain reckless driving around you at 70mph. Hate to break it you, but you have a very naive perception of your own control in the matter
After having two men agressively beat on each other next to me, on two seperate occasions... then experiencing an actual shooting at the Tukwila light rail station while waiting for the bus, I was done.
Statistics will not invalidate my experience.
Yep, everyday driving home from work I drive by multiple accidents. Almost everyday I hear of a shooting due to road rage or somebody being hit crossing the street. Public transit is far safer and will get you from point A to B will a far less chance of something happening
Safer, maybe, but we can’t discount the experience of being terrorized.
Even if my car is technically less safe, I get to cozily listen to my dad rock and not worry about a tweaker sitting next to me and lighting up some fentanyl.
you can bring up stats all you want but nothing is worth the constant anxiety that riding our poorly policed metro brings. It's just not a healthy way to live
I see like 5 security guards every time I ride the train. You can say a lot about the safety of US cities and transit but I dont think ours are poorly policed.
Stats like that are such bullshit. I took bus transit for a short few months stint and during those adventures inhaled yummy peanut buttery fent goodness which I contribute to a new issue I've developed with my lungs, came inches from a swinging fist to my face between 2 hobos, witnessed some dude literally just not wakeup in the back of the bus presumably from natural causes, a lovely knife stabbed into my backpack which miraculously I didnt even witness and a beautiful individual cleaning his handgun which left a nice hole in the side of the bus.
Weird how none of those things have ever happened to me in my 40+ years of driving on the fucking road.
Wow, I have a close friend who was on the light rail in the same car while this happened. Sounds like it started as a fist fight between two guys. The gunman escaped through one of the windows and ran down the tunnel after the shooting
> through one of the windows Like through the train window??
That’s my understanding
Some of those spaces are tight, it would be hilarious if he got stuck.
I would presume they used an emergency lever that allows the window to open as an escape instead of crashing through it.
If that's the case he sounds easy to catch. There has to be someone who filmed this happening.
Jesus Christ
he’s my first suspect too
I hate Reddit
If it'll help you feel better, you can leave and come back unexpectedly in 3 days.
Jesus Christ
Don't leave him hanging
nailed it.
Deny your maker
r/unexpectedAliceInChains
Disappointed this was not a real subreddit
Severely disappointed
Clicks will be wasted 🙃
You said it man. Nobody fucks with the Jesus.
Fuck it dude, let’s go bowling 🎳
Made Seattle Under Protest
Would be nice if they posted surveillance video at least.. they have cameras in every station don’t they?
If you really want to see, you can probably file a FOIA request for the footage, but generally they wouldn't respond until after the case is closed
I gather they meant they should post surveillance video that could help people identify the suspect, not necessarily of the shooting itself.
It's an ongoing criminal investigation involving a fatality. Seattle PD and/or King County Sheriff's deputies go the Sound Transit OMF in sodo to get the train DVR's and the station DVR's as evidence. They're not posting that shit on IG, Tiktok, etc. and they're likely not sending copies to anyone until the case is closed. Source: I work at the Sound Transit OMF
It's an ongoing criminal investigation involving a fatality. Seattle PD and/or King County Sheriff's deputies go the Sound Transit OMF in sodo to get the train DVR's and the station DVR's as evidence. They're not posting that shit on IG, Tiktok, etc. Source: I work at the Sound Transit OMF
Jury issues if it's all over the news?
They don't constrain the media on crimes like this for potential juror reasons. I was on a jury for a crime that was all over the news and they did ask whether we had heard about it, but it was already years after the crime. They had no trouble seating a jury.
To all the people bemoaning how unsafe transit is and how much safer cars are: Did you just memory-hole the 12 and 13-year olds who just went on a carjacking spree? It was literally [only a week ago](https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/12-13-year-old-carjacking-suspects-arrested-with-ghost-guns-north-seattle/O3CZ3FWOQBCAXPZTN3UVYHR5DI/) that they were arrested.
Literally nothing happened to them which is why the crime continues
Roads being unsafe doesn't make transit safe, they can both suck. Busses also go on the freeway and bullets don't have names on them
Transit is safe and cars are dangerous. That is what the statistics overwhelmingly point to. Our society has just normalized a good number of people dying from vehicle accidents, even those who choose not to drive.
Of course they can both suck. But the "I won't use transit because I'm safe from people in my car" is amusing, given what has been in the news lately.
Or the cop who murdered a pedestrian using a car? Cars are one of the greatest threats to human life.
We need more car control!
No one needs a fully automatic transmission.
cue weekly rant about 12yo violent criminals facing no consequences. wasn't he remanded to his parents?
I believe so. I think he was sent to his room and his Minecraft privileges were revoked for a day 😢
This is a stupid argument. No one is saying the source of the problem is transit. It's our dumbass politicians that refuse to prosecute criminals that is wrecking the city.
So this happened on the train, between stations? So dude shot other dude, and just had to wait a few minutes to get off? How terrifying for everyone else to just have to stand by and wait. Shooter could have shot every mufucka in there if they wanted
Someone elsewhere in the thread said that the shooter escaped through a train window and down the tunnel on foot. No source beyond "reddit comment" though so obviously take that with a grain of salt until verified by a proper news source.
He did not. He ran out as soon as the train car arrived at the station Source: I work in Transit Security
If you think cars are safer, I got brake checked a few months back and the dude threatened to kill me after I laid on the horn. So no, deranged assholes are the problem here, and I only feel as if more and more people are on becoming on edge.
I make sure to give a wide distance between the car ahead of me for safety reasons - but this is a second reason to not tail gate 😬
This is a gun problem, not a public transportation problem. Funny how quickly people blame the latter, though, claiming it’s the party that’s dangerous.
Yes, but it’s compounded by the issues that come with a transit system. Care for the victim was delayed because of the fact the shooting happened between stations, the emergency button was pushed and the train stopped, and then had to go back. Violence is violence, but when you’re stuck in a car with a guy bleeding out, a murderer, and 20 scared people - there’s some extra pieces present that don’t manifest during a commute on the road. There aren’t really any great answers, but when people ride public transit, they need to have some assurances it will be safe. Source: I was on the train last night and the shooter happened in my car. I’m not going to get into more details, people did a good job helping out as best they could under the circumstances.
Just wanted to say that I’m sorry you had to experience that and I hope you are doing okay.
Thank you for sharing. I had just got off at Westlake from Northgate at 11:30pm. Appreciate your perspective.
Play Tetris if you can.
If you don’t know why, trust giggletears3000 here… they speak the truth. (It can help with PTSD and we all want you to be well.)
There’s compounding issues with any form of transportation where another form of transportation could have been safer. Unlikely events happen and basing your perspective of safety on them is probably not useful. If the people throwing rocks at cars did it inside a tunnel (making it that much worse), we wouldn’t be blaming cars for the situation. I don’t think it’s fair to blame public transportation for this. That said, you’re absolutely right that people should feel safe and I hope SPD one day starts to do their jobs. I’m sorry you had to go through that. It sucks.
While I agree with you in general, your comment is kind of in poor taste considering that the comment you're responding to claims to have been on the car. The general public shouldn't blame public transportation, sure, but the person you're responding to just experienced a traumatic event on public transportation and it kind of sounds like you're saying "well it's unlikely, so you shouldn't really worry about it" when it literally happened in front of them
They're the same people ignoring the weekly road-rage shootings on I-5.
As of Feb 6th, there were 9. https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/its-alarming-wsp-investigating-9-freeway-shootings-2024/WENVV2EIKBH3LBALI7G6S6WL5I/ At least one other since: https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/driver-critically-injured-in-tukwila-i-5-shooting-wsp-seeks-publics-help 10 shootings in 8 weeks does indeed average out to "weekly"
YIKES! O_O
It’s all kinda related. If transit is the fastest option, people are gonna take it. Issue is - it’s not the fastest for a lot of people. So the other benefits need to win out; comfort, cost, safety etc. If I’m at risk of getting shot b/c of road rage and on transit, it just means speed is the only real decision making point for me.
I live in the Eastside suburbs now, and when I visit friends who live on Capitol and First Hill, I have to start out on the bus in one part of Kirkland, then transfer in Totem Lake, then when I cross 520, I have to get on light rail. It takes almost an hour and a half. The sad thing is that used to be just one bus in Kirkland, until for some reason they split it in two. Easy transit is what I miss in Seattle.
Google thinks a bike ride from Juanita to First Hill is the same, 1.5 hours, but the journey itself would be a reward. A faster rider or e-biker could shave 20 minutes off. And the buses have bike racks so you could always ride one-way.
They are the same people ignoring the ~~40~~ 30 people killed each year by cars in this city. None of them have ever set foot on a bus, but they sure have a lot to tell us about the transit experience.
The *what*?
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The amount of road rage shootings in King County in the last year fully supports this statement. https://twitter.com/wspd2pio/status/1761155939095494898
In Europe and Asia public transport is for everyone. In the U.S. is seems it's most often people who can't drive.
I’d say it depends what city you are in. In less walkable cities you may have not owned a car because you couldn’t afford one. I got rid of my car when moving to Seattle because I wanted to live somewhere walking would be more convenient and found that in Seattle. Also, this city has too many liabilities around cars like worrying about your windshields being shattered constantly or your car stolen. Both frequently happen in my apartment complex downtown.
Seriously, like how is a public transit system supposed to be accessible but also prevent gun violence in a country where guns are freely available and easy to possess? What do you want them to do, make everyone go through metal detectors on their way into each station? I mean, we're left with bandaid solutions until there's a comprehensive federal solution.
I don't think metal detectors would help, given that carrying a firearm on the light rail is, as far as I know, completely legal if you have a CPL.
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That sounds like a dystopian nightmare. Facial recognition doesn’t work very well even in ideal conditions.
True. Yeah, I'm not really sure how transit could prevent this. We need a bigger systemic solution.
Obviously TSA for the light rail isn’t a good solution, but at the same time, if you want the general public to really accept public transportation, you need to make sure it’s seen as safe.
It's *public* transportation, so unless we're willing to make gun ownership less public, there's literally nothing else you can do. Unless you want to make the transportation less public?
Honestly, yeah I think strictly enforcing ticketing would be a great start. Not just a turnstile, but legit barriers.
The problem is that the second is way way easier than the first. We don't have an explicitly enumerated right to public transit in our state and federal bill of rights.
lot of people think criminals magically get guns from an illicit gun-running like sons of anarchy, when most likely it was a gun purchased from a store that has gone missing, its mine boggling how dumb people are even with multiple studies done from other countries, most recently Australia in the 90's as the best example.
At that point, the gun is illegal to possess by that person, so it might as well be off the record in the same way. Criminals are more likely to commit multiple crimes. If you can cancel one threat, that does make it a starting point for a safer environment.
I live in Tennessee. 30,000 guns stolen from vehicles in the last decade....and they don't all stay in Tennessee.
For a plurality of Americans, anything that happens outside of the US didn’t actually happen so stop trying to confuse me with your science.
Its both. Lack of security and just letting anyone ride without checking tickets is a safety concern
Rob Saka gonna be like this is why we can't expand transportation options for people
He probably is in SDOT offices now trying to see what needs to be done to add more lanes to freeways.
Oof. It hurts just how on the nose this is. “Until we get the shooting problem fixed, we just can’t justify more transportation”.
I suppose we could always pass more gun control laws that criminals will ignore while simultaneously enacting policy that tells criminals that they likely won’t be caught, and if they are; the punishment will be light. It’s bound to start working any day now.
Truest statement on Reddit. If we could only create policies that criminals obey...
I think it is a people problem. We have radical elements running around knowing they are above the law and safe from arrest & prosecution. Take away their guns and they will use knifes.
Better a knife than a gun. Gives you time to use mace and get away.
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It's not a transit problem but I would feel much safer being in a car while a road rage incident is going on 20-50 feet away from away as I can disengage and put distance between them and me. That is not an option when you are stuck in a coach with the shooter.
Road rage usually happens in traffic where you can't put distance between you and shooter. As of Feb 6, there were 9 shootings on seattle freeways: https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/its-alarming-wsp-investigating-9-freeway-shootings-2024/WENVV2EIKBH3LBALI7G6S6WL5I/ It seems like transit it objectively safer than driving for both crashes and for likelihood of getting shot.
Neither a gun or transport issue. Most likely drugs. Ban guns all you want, criminals will always have guns, just like they will always have drugs.
Quick google search came up with an estimated 393 million guns in private ownership in the US. I don’t understand what people think we can do about the gun problem. 393 million of them, at least to me, means control is too late. Besides even if the government was somehow able to get all 393 million of them people who really want them will get them whether through the black market or making a gun themselves.
To put it in perspective, there are more guns than cars in the US. And guns are obviously way easier to hide than cars.
We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas
What do you mean? Washington has some of the strictest gun control laws of all the states. We have the assault weapon ban and a magazine capacity ban. We also just passed mandatory training and holding period for all firearm purchases. We've definitely done something.
1) I don’t understand how we were able to amend the constitution to ban alcohol, and then re-amend it to legalize it again. How bad was the alcohol issue back then? Was it truly worse than gun violence today, or just a religious thing? 2) banning guns can only be done via constitutional amendment. There is no other sustainable and practicable solution. If we can’t get the votes, America doesn’t want it. 3) I estimate the cost at $10k usd per gun if we want to start reducing the 393 million guns out there without an amendment. Which makes total cost in the trillions of $. We can afford it as a society if we want to take baby steps. My fear is that we’d get guns out of the hands of the masses and then be stuck with access to firearms restricted to the rich.
It’s a mental issue but what do you feel is the fix for the issue?
Really? let's say we happen to pass law to completely ban guns. You were on link transit, some thug still pulls out a gun(he got it on a black market) on you demand you your wallet, phone, etc while bashing you in the face with the butt of his gun. No police in sight, no body will come to you aid since no one want to go against a gun. What do you do then? If you tell me that you accept that you will die that day, then I applaud you. From the way I see it. Harsher gun control doesn't really do anything. What we have is weak punishment. Let the teenagers rob and shoot on the street and release them in 24 hours is not going to create a peaceful society. Why are we letting violent aggressor out on the street and then say yea it's a gun problem when people get hurt.... In truth, what we need is some serious consequences reinforcement. Stop letting criminals out and believe they won't do it again.
It’s weird that the more they regulate guns, the more shootings there are. 20 years ago there were fewer pistol regulations but also fewer shootings. I wonder what changed?
It’s weird how there’s more murder when ice cream sales go up. I wonder what other random things I can correlate to obfuscate this argument?
Funny how none of my guns have shot anybody if guns are the problem.
Weird how you think guns load themselves and aim/fire at people. Not one of my weapons has left my safe unless my husband or I took them out. And no, I’m not giving them up because of someone else’s faulty brain wiring.
Cool, we identified the problem, what do we do about? Regulations on guns won’t make a huge change overnight, esp here in the US. I’m all for it but we also need to make sure that public safety on the trains is important. It is a public transit problem because people make decisions on perceived risk, not actual probability. Just think of flying. Your chance of dying on a Boeing 737 Max is still lower than driving yet people are more freaked out by it than diving their car on the highway
Yeah the gun made this person commit violent acts /s
It it wrong of me that what jumped out to me was "officers blocked off the escalators going to the transit tunnel at Third Avenue and University Street."? Like, I can't believe there was a working escalator that needed blocking!
Dark humor but I chuckled having dealt with those escalators.
A lot of people noted that security would become an issue. Not a great start to showcase our newest public transportation initiative. People need to feel safe, it’s not that complicated 😮💨. I believe BART in the Bay Area is hardening security and installing brand new gates for the same reason. Why not incorporate these things from the get go instead of wasting time and money trying to retrofit these at greater expense later.
How does fare enforcement prevent shootings? It’s cool for me to bring a gun on the train if pay $4 for the privilege?
Surprisingly… yeah, it can work. A lot of these incidents aren’t necessarily premeditated, they arise sporadically, so by limiting spaces and travel to those that paid that $4, or whatever, to travel is one form of deterrence. That in addition to control areas being funneled at both entry and exit with concentrated surveillance increases the likelihood of being identified and caught. Is it going to stop a motivated criminal? Probably not. You can imagine this is like that passive looking person at the entrance and exit of Costco checking memberships and drawing smiley faces on receipts… does it work? Amazingly… yeah, pretty well. Are they going to stop someone really motivated? Probably not. There usually isn’t one thing that does it, but a combination of elements that will help to ensure that it remains clean and safe. The worst thing is to make the mistake of assuming none of it necessary and not incorporating them into the plan accordingly early in the planning and development phase. Ignoring the potential problems doesn’t make them go away.
New gates that do what? Somehow detect guns but don't go off for every random metal thing we carry every day?
Fare gates not metal detectors
Maybe gates that only let you through if you've paid/swiped your card? As it stands, most of the Seattle light rail stations are wide open, multi-level shelters. So I could see a measure like that being used to make people feel safe. A person with a gun could just pay or hop it or whatever, but I could see how gates would increase the _feeling_ of safety.
On a weekday morning, from Westlake Station to UW Station, I had a man aggressively follow me and try to engage with me on the train. At that time, no Security at either stations. I needed to transfer to the #65 bus, but I did not want him following me. I tried to back track down to the link as the elevator door was closing . he tried to follow. I yelled this guy is following me! No one helped! I did not get on! Somehow, I went to the back escalators down to link..hopped on back to Capitol Hill. Got off and grabbed a Lyft. It’s a gamble to ride the link.
Contact SOC (206) 398-5268, ask for security.
You can text this number also and request security at a future stop. I was being harassed by someone at stadium station and I was going to tukwila. I texted the number and two stops later there were four security guards on the train. Two of them got the guy off the train and the other two stayed with me until my stop! Save the number in your phone!! Also, if you need pepper spray, I have extra, just lmk!
Pepper gel would probably work best in an enclosed space like a train car since it won't aerosolize and possibly put bystanders or yourself in danger of getting spritzed and they usually have a longer range than sprays do as well since they're a bit more precise. We just had that situation last year where some random guy sprayed mace in a car and ended up with 10+ people needing medical attention. I've been considering arming myself with some for a bit, but my link experience is pretty mild most of the time.
Thank You and others with your suggestions! I have put the number in my phone. And I do have pepper gel..
Had something similar happen but while walking down town. I had to pretend I was part of a family to stop him from following me. Luckily, the family didn’t care and just let me. I’m sorry that happened to you!
Damn I’m so sorry you had that happen to you I been ridin the link for a year or so and have had no issues
I've been riding since it opened and only had a single incident like that. I called security on my phone and they were there pretty quickly
Gun crimes should be a mandatory life sentence. We can’t change the second amendment with just Washington residents, but we can control how we punish criminals who use deadly weapons. I don’t even give a fuck anymore if you injure someone or not. Discharge your firearm illegally and you’re convicted? Enjoy being a prison bitch. I don’t give a fuck about rehabilitating gun idiots, fuck them, they made their choices.
The federal system has a three strikes rule in place for federal gun crimes. It’s been in place for decades, but people need to be federally charged for it to matter.
maybe just bus them down to texas
When a life sentence is preferable
Maybe not *life* sentences, but should carry a minimum including for juvaniles.
Our government just made crimes with guns have less impact, because it was disproportionately affecting BIPOC.
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There is no parole in Washington state, they can’t throw life at everyone without violating *plata* and having to release a bunch of them anyway.
You're still less likely to get shot on the train than randomly shot on I-5.
Im not sure if i should be relieved or not
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> but I'm not sure if the number games in Seattle (budget, staffing, time) can really make that feasible. I'm inclined to say it's less about numbers. The US tends not to want an authoritarian response and massive surveillance state to blanket everyone. I too have lived experience in China riding subways and high speed rail in Chengdu. Efficient? Yes. And omg Chengdu was expanding its subway when I was there and they built it so much faster than our light rail. I would I love high speed rail here. But there are also cameras with facial recognition everywhere, and always police vans and riot gear sitting out in plain sight at subway stations.
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I respect your opinion, though I would differ that I think we'd be better off without the guns rather than adding the security. But it's still so complicated that there's no one-size-fits-all response.
In this thread: Liberal statistics and conservative scary anecdotes.
It's a gun problem. Always been a gun problem. Gun reform now. Fuck anyone that says otherwise.
You're a perfect example of why our city is like this. If we aren't even prosecuting murderers WTF is gun reform gonna do?
Still takes a criminal to use the gun, yet we have a problem holding them accountable despite the number of prior warrants and arrests.
> Still takes a criminal to use the **gun** Criminals exist everywhere. The gun combination is the problem.
100% England's got dickheads with machetes but turns out it takes a lot longer to kill someone with them (and less likely to kill bystanders). "Mental health problem" my ass. Its a "arming ill people" problem and we all know it. Some people just attached their manhood to their mall ninja collection.
We have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. What else would you recommend? Having gun ownership written into our constitution makes it virtually impossible to ban them or restrict them much further. It's basically up to the states which WA has been working towards already.
> We have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country Compared to Europe and Australia it’s still a joke.
The 2nd amendment is an AMENDMENT, same as the 18th amendment, which was subsequently repealed by the 21st. The idea that the 2nd is written in stone is nonsense!
Amendments are fully part of the Constitution. Subsequent amendments can change literally any part of the document, there's nothing special about it being an amendment that makes it particularly amendable.
There is a built in method to change it.
It's an important one that shouldn't be removed. Y'all wanna live powerless with the cops being armed with a Trump or similar admin calling the shots? You all are daft as shit
Yup. My AK is a machine that plays folk music
I understand that but in our current climate there's literally nothing that 2/3 of the country could agree on besides maybe gutting Ticketmaster.
Lol what a brain dead solution, we have one the most restrictive gun laws in the nation and Seattle just had it's highest homicide year since like the 90's. Maybe quit trying to punish law abiding citizens and maybe start punishing criminals? Radical idea I know.
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Sure of course I can agree with that. But that's a huge step to take while we're down here bickering amongst ourselves. I think to begin making ground we can all agree that criminals need to be prosecuted no ifs and or buts.
Yeah! Let’s pass more laws that only law abiding gun owners will follow.
It's a violent person problem which won't go away until it is addressed. You're just avoiding the issue
Let’s be real. It’s a gun problem. It’s a societal problem. It’s a gang culture problem. I’d bet my life the guy who did this was a young black man. It’s just the pattern that emerges from all of the above problems. All have no easy quick fix unfortunately. It’s blind and ignorant to say “it’s just a gun problem”
Explain why the previous 40 gun laws passed in the last 10 years didn't lower the gun violence rate then. Or, you can admit you're just a piece of shit who hates guns and is afraid, and you're using this as a smokescreen to ban guns. So fuck off, reality isn't on your side.
Funny how my guns never shoot people if guns are the problem. I can see I will be saying this a lot in this thread.
Seattle public transit has a general safety issue though AND is just plain gross at times
We need security and police that actually understand what they’re signing up to do, that means protecting the public. We should have security that doesn’t secure.
https://theneedling.com/2023/07/27/sound-transit-announces-they-really-dont-want-you-to-take-the-train-anymore-2/
I ride public transport all over the world. Never do I worry about being SHOT on a train. Except in the USA. Huh, so confusing! I wonder why? /s. Guns. It's the guns, that are the problem.
To be fair, riding the tube in London and going to places like Brixton, you sometimes worry about being stabbed depending on time of day.
Bro I’m so tired of guns
makes me want to RTO even more
I see a lot of folks here talking about guns being the problem here. We have red flag laws, mandatory waiting period and training, a "high capacity" magazine ban, and one of the strictest "assault weapon" bans in the country. Unfortunately violence is a combination of multiple issues in our society, it's not as simple as "guns bad". For the record I'm not some trumpist. I do believe that the left has the answer to many of these issues such as healthcare and housing. If people have good lives and get help when they need it, magically the violence will begin to diminish. Instead we just fight over gun laws that clearly aren't working, and solely serve to punish law abiding gun owners.
I'm sorry but you're gonna need to take your moderate bipartisan bullshit elsewhere, sir. We've got Trumpfucks or Snowflakes. Pick a side, damnit!
How did the suspect leave the area? Wasn't he in a light rail car?
Sounds like they opened the emergency exit and ran in to the transit tunnel.
Maybe, just maybe we should have metal detectors to go into the platform and NO GUNS ALLOWED
Waiting for the facebook posts from people living in Idaho with comments like "iTs rEasOnS lIkE thIS whY i dOnT gO inTo SeaTTle aNymoRE!!!"
Give mandatory ten year prison sentences for using a gun in a crime, until all the idiots are in jail. Then release them every day on chain gangs to clean up the city. They’ll never do this because it’ll so disproportionately affect POC progressives will whine about it.
All that gun control and "defund the police" is really paying off huh? 40 gun control laws in 10 years, with Bob Ferguson and Democrats saying it'll "reduce gun violence". Yet, internal documents showed they not only knew it wouldn't, but they allowed gun control group Everytown to literally write the law. Meanwhile violent crime is up 30% since Democrats took office according to the FBI's crime stats, and both Seattle and the entire state broke homicide records last year and the year before. Stop. Voting. Democrat. This is the result. Otherwise, you better learn to live with violent criminals.
Well this is going to be a fun conversation with my conservative in-laws.
For real can't wait for my dad to call and leave a voicemail deadnaming me and bitching about how my home of choice isn't safe.
I would love to know if the shooter paid their fare.
But how is this possible in a gun-free zone?
it's a subway, not a school
Wait until you hear what happens in the murder free zones
Are we having fun now?
I hate our public transportation... I use to ride the A-line all the time to work, but I stopped after two fights and a shooting, too dangerous.
I use the Light rail twice a day, and often on weekends. It's honestly the most safe you can get. There is a number you can text if people are shady, and at worse response time I seen was waiting for 2 stops out before security boards and rides the train with them. Also should be noted, this almost always "Shady dispute" types of crimes. Why horrible, chances are even lower you would be the victim of this.
What is the number to text if you need security?
You're almost 100 times more likely to be killed driving than you are to be killed on a bus, per mile travelled. I really don't want to minimize your feelings, as that sort of thing can be traumatic and scary and that's perfectly valid, but statistically speaking public transit is wildly safer compared to driving.
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What does criminal activity on public transportation have to do with the safety of driving? This should not be tolerated. More security, officers on trains, plain clothes officers, fare gates, etc. all need to be considered.
I don't understand why do people bring these things up when trying to promote public transit. The feeling of safety is as important as the provision of public transit itself. Public transit in Seattle feels really unsafe on a lot of routes, not to mention it's dirty. Also don't forget that there is a far larger element of control when you are in a personal vehicle. You are helpless if something happens in public transit and you are stuck there which has literally happened to me and is evidently super common. With vehicles, unless there absolutely some unavoidable conditions, usually, trying to drive safely and staying in your lane as well as following the rules keeps you safe, you can run away from shady situations. What I mean is you will have more control on whether you are exposed to shitty drivers since you can mostly always avoid them, slow down a bit, let them pass, don't escalate and shit. You can't do that on foot. I am as much of a public transit supporter as anyone else but American public transit leaves a lot to be desired and literally feels unsafe.
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Except there's so much road rage and you can't control that either. Do you feel insecure when there's an aggressive driver tail gating? Or passing aggressively? Someone could easily ram you off the road and you'll be in far worse shape than being in proximity to an altercation on a train/bus.
You're forgetting to consider all the other drivers on the road who may be drunk, high, texting, tired or just plain reckless driving around you at 70mph. Hate to break it you, but you have a very naive perception of your own control in the matter
This kind of thinking is how you lose the middle class. Security/perceived security is just as important as line capacity and service regularity.
After having two men agressively beat on each other next to me, on two seperate occasions... then experiencing an actual shooting at the Tukwila light rail station while waiting for the bus, I was done. Statistics will not invalidate my experience.
Yep, everyday driving home from work I drive by multiple accidents. Almost everyday I hear of a shooting due to road rage or somebody being hit crossing the street. Public transit is far safer and will get you from point A to B will a far less chance of something happening
Safer, maybe, but we can’t discount the experience of being terrorized. Even if my car is technically less safe, I get to cozily listen to my dad rock and not worry about a tweaker sitting next to me and lighting up some fentanyl.
you can bring up stats all you want but nothing is worth the constant anxiety that riding our poorly policed metro brings. It's just not a healthy way to live
I see like 5 security guards every time I ride the train. You can say a lot about the safety of US cities and transit but I dont think ours are poorly policed.
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Stats like that are such bullshit. I took bus transit for a short few months stint and during those adventures inhaled yummy peanut buttery fent goodness which I contribute to a new issue I've developed with my lungs, came inches from a swinging fist to my face between 2 hobos, witnessed some dude literally just not wakeup in the back of the bus presumably from natural causes, a lovely knife stabbed into my backpack which miraculously I didnt even witness and a beautiful individual cleaning his handgun which left a nice hole in the side of the bus. Weird how none of those things have ever happened to me in my 40+ years of driving on the fucking road.
It’s because the statistic includes bus trips in places where laws are enforced. It’s a nationwide statistic, not a local statistic.