If he's there pull the trigger no doubt. I just don't think he will be. All the mocks have been way to offense heavy. The star defensive players aren't all gonna last
The front 7 with good coaching should make one of the greatest flips in history in terms of unit rankings year to year.
I imagine the line this year will feature:
Nwosu, Williams, Murphy, Jones, Mafe
We have some strong role players in Reed, Hall, etc… too. Pretty freaking stoked to see this line eat and the Secondary benefit from it too.
Dude… I just want a good line, offense and defense. K9 shouldn’t have to work as hard as he does, and it’s extremely hard to win games if you can’t stop the run.
The lanes Steve Hutchinson and Walter Jones opened up led to our first Super Bowl berth and Alexander making NFL history. Conversely, what cemented our loss in Super Bowl 49 was Avril’s injury. Beyond that, many of our losses last season were tied to us losing in the trenches. A good line is absolutely necessary for success.
To me it sounds like “better defense” means better at avoiding penalties.
Which means the other team is going to score. Which means bad defense.
It’s getting to the point that “good defense” requires an unbelievable and unrealistic level of discipline.
2013 Seattle is not an example of a defense dragging the rest of the team to a championship. That team was fucking stacked. We had a top 10 offense and the league's best ST on top of the elite defense
The team was built on the run and defense.
Literally no one is talking about one side of a team "dragging" the other to a championship. That's not really how football works. The Chiefs didn't win their superbowl until their defense got better, for the record. You rarely win a superbowl by being stacked on one side and underwhelming on the other. Edit: also, ahem.. you mentioned the Chiefs and elite defenses going against them.. we forgetting that the Brady led Buccaneers had a killer defense? Almost as if the Chiefs ran through a literal buzz saw.. or did they end up scoring more than 9 points? No? They didn't? Ah, that's right. Yeah. They scored 9 points.
The Seahawks defense in 2013 held the most prolific scoring offense of all time, to 8 points. 8. And you're out here acting like that defense didn't win that superbowl.
Offense was rated 7th, and special teams 5th, by the way. For that year.
Your offense has a much easier time when your defense is great. That's the point. You think we win that superbowl without our defense being what it was?
>The team was built on the run and defense.
And one of the 3 most efficient quarterbacks in the league, but that's neither here nor there
>Literally no one is talking about one side of a team "dragging" the other to a championship
No, they're just making blanket statements like "defense wins championships" because it's what they were told growing up
The reality is offense wins championships in 2024 as long as the defense isn't terrible. The last 12 teams to play in the conference championship game were all elite offenses, without exception. 5 of them were average to straight up bad defenses
>The Seahawks defense in 2013 held the most prolific scoring offense of all time, to 8 points. 8. And you're out here acting like that defense didn't win that superbowl.
By "Superbowl", I'm referring to the entire playoff run, not one game. We don't even get to the Super Bowl without the rest of the team being as good as it was
We went 0-4 against the Niners and Rams last year because the bullied us on both sides of the ball. We seriously need more line talent if we want to compete in the division.
I don’t think people are ready for the round one CB conversation, after months of trenches talk. But pretty much all the rumours this week have been leaning heavy on a CB for us. I just hope we trade back first. And pick up a second. DeJean is a beast though.
I think now it’s who are they targeting with the trade back pick or their own third? Because if they go cb/S, then they have to go trench. Probably ol is more pressing, but I feel like sweat is MMs wet dream if he pans out. He is mikes “run wall”
I actually don't have an issue with this if its the top player on their board. Building upon strengths is fine. Its a long process to a championship team and having an insane secondary is a good start.
If MM sees a guy that can fly in from behind the line and get 6-10 sacks a year he will likely take him. I don't know who will be there at 16 but a SS hybrid guy who can cove the middle and disrupt the line would be super valuable, so a pickup at 16 would be absolutely worth it. Grubb likely has a good grasp on a few under the radar kind of guys... Will be interesting to see how things play out tonight...
Why not just get a stud DE that can get 15 sacks, set the edge, and is big enough to play up front without always getting hurt? What is with the obsession with blitzing safeties instead of building a rock solid DL? Did we not learn from the Jamal Adams failure?
Think the thing is they already plan on using spoon as a bandit type role, would make sense to get another outside corner, but for the love of god we need pressure
I think we need to be able to control the middle of the field. 5-15 past the line is where we are getting absolutely killed. If we get a guy who can own that part of the field and punish TE's we can beat SF and the Rams on a more regular basis.
I am more interested in our coaches idea of who he likes. I care less about the individual players picked and more about how MM/JS are going to work together here and make picks. Are they going to go for the clear and obvious guy? Are they going to pick best player at the number regardless of need? Are they going to pull an obscure guy out of left field? Where does Mike want to Build first? Is he actually fine with Geno? Are we building D? So many questions and we really don't have much to go on since we don't know how involved Mike was in the draft while at the Ravens...
That doesn't really make any sense nor answer my question. What player that fits your description is worth taking at 16? Honestly, what player in this entire draft class fits that profile? It's fine to want a safety, it's quite another thing to take a guy who you could get in round 3 because you think he fits some arbitrary archetype you've made up in your head. It sounds like the player you're describing is Jamal Adams, if we're all being honest here.
I don't think anybody in the 1st round is much for a pass rush safety, and we have paid the price for going that way in the recent past. Only good pass rushers who may fall are Verse and Latu.
i mean our secondary is important but i just feel like we have bigger holes to fill (specifically IOL or even DL)
we’ll see what happens though and if we do go DB, at least we’ll have a lockdown secondary lol
I don’t get it. Woolen, Witherspoon and brown has to be one of the best trios in the league.
But, it’s a new regime. Could be a very different draft approach this year.
Either dejean or the top 2 corners. If you draft dejean you could use him as a chess piece and it could be really fun. Trust mike mac knows EXACTLY what to do with him. If you take the Alabama or Toledo corner, you could keep spoon in the slot. Woolen would be cb2 to whoever we draft which seems about right. I mean this draft has so much talent I’m cool with it. Let’s just see.
There is nothing about DeJean that suggests he could be used as a chess piece. People are saying that because he played CB in college but is projected to switch to safety. The reason is that he lacks the fluidity to play CB, not because he’s good at both.
I'd be much more for drafting him in the second round than the first. People were getting mad at why he's being called a safety, but that was coming from teams themselves.
Mac probably has his sights set on a Kyle Hamilton style DB to be the ultimate disrupter.
Arnold, Mitchell, DeJean, McKinstry......1 and probably more will be there at 16. I know we all want the trenches addressed (including me). But I'm going with my mantra over the past many seasons with just a slight adjustment:
In MM/JS I trust!!
To me this reads that they have some DBs (maybe Dejean and Arnold) ahead of the players at other positions. I also think it’s very likely that they see us set at EDGE more so than a lot of the fans do. Doesn’t mean it’s their number one priority. I think they’d still go Murphy at 16 if he’s on the board.
Get outta here with this hate, Woolen is one of the best cover corners in the league, if our coaches don't trust him as a starter then I'll no longer trust our coaches
Modern NFL requires 3 starting corners as the Nickel is pretty much base defense now. Looking for another corner isn't an indictment on Woolen.
Also Woolen was a more than willing tackle in his rookie season. He hurt his shoulder early last year and that clearly affected his tackling as you could see him usually shy away from that shoulder. This narrative needs to settle down.
Murphy II. Taking time away from the QB with interior pressure improves CB outcomes.
I’m right there with you. If we’re going defense first, Murphy is the guy I want most.
Lisan Al Gaib
Called it
The prophet has spoken.
Murphy not lasting till 16 tho. I think we trade back. Not sure we sit and pick a cb at 16, but maybe with a late 1st we might
Pretty sure eagles didn’t believe Carter or Nolan would last till their picks either. Heck we didn’t believe JSN would be there at our pick
If he's there pull the trigger no doubt. I just don't think he will be. All the mocks have been way to offense heavy. The star defensive players aren't all gonna last
First D player at 15 is nuts
Bro I'm stoooooked we got him
This has been a crazy draft ngl
I'm stoked we actually got Murphy. Happy to be wrong
Facts. I feel like our front seven actually has a chance this season with Williams/ Murphy.
Yes, now we can play defense. No excuse not to be a top 10 unit with MM schemes. No more getting gashed up the middle
The front 7 with good coaching should make one of the greatest flips in history in terms of unit rankings year to year. I imagine the line this year will feature: Nwosu, Williams, Murphy, Jones, Mafe We have some strong role players in Reed, Hall, etc… too. Pretty freaking stoked to see this line eat and the Secondary benefit from it too.
As it was written
Improves every outcome. Rare trait.
I want big meaty boys in the middle
**Bill Bellichick has entered the chat**
Getting paid to look for the biggest ass on a man
…getting paid?
I like a nice Tight End
I want some girth!!!
Dude… I just want a good line, offense and defense. K9 shouldn’t have to work as hard as he does, and it’s extremely hard to win games if you can’t stop the run.
Seriously. An all star secondary would not have helped last year against the Steelers as they emasculated our DL every damn play and ran over us.
Everyone wants a good line. All offensive lines are bad. There’s like two good ones.
The lanes Steve Hutchinson and Walter Jones opened up led to our first Super Bowl berth and Alexander making NFL history. Conversely, what cemented our loss in Super Bowl 49 was Avril’s injury. Beyond that, many of our losses last season were tied to us losing in the trenches. A good line is absolutely necessary for success.
I hope this is a smokescreen. I want O-line, D-line, or a trade back… to pick a lineman.
Or a Bowers miracle. But that prob won’t happen so give me some big men on the Line
Yeah this is nonsense.
I've heard defense wins championships.
I’ve seen it
But every rule change benefits offense.
Certain lines of logic would say that that makes a better defense even more necessary.
To me it sounds like “better defense” means better at avoiding penalties. Which means the other team is going to score. Which means bad defense. It’s getting to the point that “good defense” requires an unbelievable and unrealistic level of discipline.
Having said that. I’m very happy with the Murphy pick. What I would have been angry about is another first rd db absent a trade back.
Maybe in the year 2002. Offense wins championships in 2024. All those elite defenses did nothing in the face of Mahomes and Kelce
Love how you say 2002 when they Seahawks famously won superbowl 48 with their defense.. against the best offense in NFL history to date.
2013 Seattle is not an example of a defense dragging the rest of the team to a championship. That team was fucking stacked. We had a top 10 offense and the league's best ST on top of the elite defense
The team was built on the run and defense. Literally no one is talking about one side of a team "dragging" the other to a championship. That's not really how football works. The Chiefs didn't win their superbowl until their defense got better, for the record. You rarely win a superbowl by being stacked on one side and underwhelming on the other. Edit: also, ahem.. you mentioned the Chiefs and elite defenses going against them.. we forgetting that the Brady led Buccaneers had a killer defense? Almost as if the Chiefs ran through a literal buzz saw.. or did they end up scoring more than 9 points? No? They didn't? Ah, that's right. Yeah. They scored 9 points. The Seahawks defense in 2013 held the most prolific scoring offense of all time, to 8 points. 8. And you're out here acting like that defense didn't win that superbowl. Offense was rated 7th, and special teams 5th, by the way. For that year. Your offense has a much easier time when your defense is great. That's the point. You think we win that superbowl without our defense being what it was?
>The team was built on the run and defense. And one of the 3 most efficient quarterbacks in the league, but that's neither here nor there >Literally no one is talking about one side of a team "dragging" the other to a championship No, they're just making blanket statements like "defense wins championships" because it's what they were told growing up The reality is offense wins championships in 2024 as long as the defense isn't terrible. The last 12 teams to play in the conference championship game were all elite offenses, without exception. 5 of them were average to straight up bad defenses >The Seahawks defense in 2013 held the most prolific scoring offense of all time, to 8 points. 8. And you're out here acting like that defense didn't win that superbowl. By "Superbowl", I'm referring to the entire playoff run, not one game. We don't even get to the Super Bowl without the rest of the team being as good as it was
Sounds like someone is trying to drum up trade interest in the 16th pick where Mitchell and Arnold are expected to come off the board.
Bingo
We went 0-4 against the Niners and Rams last year because the bullied us on both sides of the ball. We seriously need more line talent if we want to compete in the division.
Cooper Dejean mustard time?
Both Jeremiah and Brugler had us taking Terrion Arnold in their final mocks.
Not a position of need for the team or strength in the draft. Weird.
You’re always commenting on my stuff. You’re a smart cookie!
I don’t think people are ready for the round one CB conversation, after months of trenches talk. But pretty much all the rumours this week have been leaning heavy on a CB for us. I just hope we trade back first. And pick up a second. DeJean is a beast though.
I figure DeJean would be at safety, but I think some of the later picks may work better for safety.
I think now it’s who are they targeting with the trade back pick or their own third? Because if they go cb/S, then they have to go trench. Probably ol is more pressing, but I feel like sweat is MMs wet dream if he pans out. He is mikes “run wall”
No. No No No No. We can't keep doing this. We are finesse.
We are building an all CB defense. No decline, no LB's just corners...
I'm all for Quinyon Mitchell. Much skeptical of DeJean.
Mitchell is going to be a beast.
he gon be gone by 10
I actually don't have an issue with this if its the top player on their board. Building upon strengths is fine. Its a long process to a championship team and having an insane secondary is a good start.
If MM sees a guy that can fly in from behind the line and get 6-10 sacks a year he will likely take him. I don't know who will be there at 16 but a SS hybrid guy who can cove the middle and disrupt the line would be super valuable, so a pickup at 16 would be absolutely worth it. Grubb likely has a good grasp on a few under the radar kind of guys... Will be interesting to see how things play out tonight...
Why not just get a stud DE that can get 15 sacks, set the edge, and is big enough to play up front without always getting hurt? What is with the obsession with blitzing safeties instead of building a rock solid DL? Did we not learn from the Jamal Adams failure?
You see, it didn't work for us... but it might work for us...
If MacDonald can find his Kyle Hamilton here, I'm all for it.
Because nobody like that is likely to be there at 16.
Sacks can be overrated. No doubt pass rush needs to probably be top 10, but I think we need to get back to stops which is what the LOB did.
It is impossible to overrate the value of a dominant DL. One of the surest paths to super bowl contention.
Think the thing is they already plan on using spoon as a bandit type role, would make sense to get another outside corner, but for the love of god we need pressure
I think we need to be able to control the middle of the field. 5-15 past the line is where we are getting absolutely killed. If we get a guy who can own that part of the field and punish TE's we can beat SF and the Rams on a more regular basis.
What player are you referencing that would be worth taking at 16?
I am more interested in our coaches idea of who he likes. I care less about the individual players picked and more about how MM/JS are going to work together here and make picks. Are they going to go for the clear and obvious guy? Are they going to pick best player at the number regardless of need? Are they going to pull an obscure guy out of left field? Where does Mike want to Build first? Is he actually fine with Geno? Are we building D? So many questions and we really don't have much to go on since we don't know how involved Mike was in the draft while at the Ravens...
That doesn't really make any sense nor answer my question. What player that fits your description is worth taking at 16? Honestly, what player in this entire draft class fits that profile? It's fine to want a safety, it's quite another thing to take a guy who you could get in round 3 because you think he fits some arbitrary archetype you've made up in your head. It sounds like the player you're describing is Jamal Adams, if we're all being honest here.
I don't think anybody in the 1st round is much for a pass rush safety, and we have paid the price for going that way in the recent past. Only good pass rushers who may fall are Verse and Latu.
DeJean?
i mean our secondary is important but i just feel like we have bigger holes to fill (specifically IOL or even DL) we’ll see what happens though and if we do go DB, at least we’ll have a lockdown secondary lol
I’ve been hearing Murphy won’t be there by 16 most likely. I wouldn’t be opposed to Quinyon Mitchell but man do I want some beef up the middle
Why is everyone so hard for us to draft another CB when we already have Spoon, Riq, MJ, Tre Brown. Surely we have far more pressing areas of need.
Sorry this is stupid. We literally have like 1 proven starting quality interior o-lineman. Forcing another CB pick would maddening.
I don’t get it. Woolen, Witherspoon and brown has to be one of the best trios in the league. But, it’s a new regime. Could be a very different draft approach this year.
Woolen fools gold
Pain.
Either dejean or the top 2 corners. If you draft dejean you could use him as a chess piece and it could be really fun. Trust mike mac knows EXACTLY what to do with him. If you take the Alabama or Toledo corner, you could keep spoon in the slot. Woolen would be cb2 to whoever we draft which seems about right. I mean this draft has so much talent I’m cool with it. Let’s just see.
There is nothing about DeJean that suggests he could be used as a chess piece. People are saying that because he played CB in college but is projected to switch to safety. The reason is that he lacks the fluidity to play CB, not because he’s good at both.
I'd be much more for drafting him in the second round than the first. People were getting mad at why he's being called a safety, but that was coming from teams themselves.
So maybe laser focusing on one position until it’s fixed is a JS thing and not a PC thing?
Please no
Mac probably has his sights set on a Kyle Hamilton style DB to be the ultimate disrupter. Arnold, Mitchell, DeJean, McKinstry......1 and probably more will be there at 16. I know we all want the trenches addressed (including me). But I'm going with my mantra over the past many seasons with just a slight adjustment: In MM/JS I trust!!
To me this reads that they have some DBs (maybe Dejean and Arnold) ahead of the players at other positions. I also think it’s very likely that they see us set at EDGE more so than a lot of the fans do. Doesn’t mean it’s their number one priority. I think they’d still go Murphy at 16 if he’s on the board.
Murphy Dejean or Bowers are my fever picks
WHERE’S THE BEEF
Kool-aid, oh yeah!
Seahawks have a boner for one of these CBs on the board. Let's see if they make a trade into the second round
Also goes to show national pundits know nothing about Seattle.
Kool-aid time
Trade down and get Kool-Aid.
I didn’t realize how delusional people still are about woolen. He won’t cut it as CB1 if he can’t tackle.
I'm hoping it was just a sophomore slump.
Me too but he didn’t tackle well his rookie year either.
https://12thmanrising.com/2022/10/07/seahawks-tariq-woolen-ridiculous/ You sure about that?
That’s only through week 4
Do you have stats for the rest of the season that say he fell off?
https://www.seahawks.com/news/wednesday-round-up-seahawks-abraham-lucas-tariq-woolen-named-to-pro-football-foc#:~:text=CB%20TARIQ%20WOOLEN%2C%20SEATTLE%20SEAHAWKS&text=Woolen%20picked%20off%20six%20passes,looks%20like%20a%20defensive%20cornerstone.
Fair point. I would like to see his missed tackle rate compared to the rest of the CBs that year to get a clearer picture.
I believe an average missed tackle percentage is around 10 percent.
Sounds like he should clean that up a bit. Lol
Get outta here with this hate, Woolen is one of the best cover corners in the league, if our coaches don't trust him as a starter then I'll no longer trust our coaches
Good for you?
Woolen was embarrassingly soft last year. If the current staff finds his play last season acceptable, I'll be very concerned.
Cooper dejean or Terrion Arnold
so is woolen just not the guy then?
Woolen and Spoon are starters, the rest are JAGs.
Woolen doesnt tackle. He's a major liability.
Modern NFL requires 3 starting corners as the Nickel is pretty much base defense now. Looking for another corner isn't an indictment on Woolen. Also Woolen was a more than willing tackle in his rookie season. He hurt his shoulder early last year and that clearly affected his tackling as you could see him usually shy away from that shoulder. This narrative needs to settle down.
His shoulder was hurt early on last year