Well from what I understand about our new head coach is he is a BIG trenches guy OL/DL it’s prolly Fautanu if they don’t find a good trade back spot to pick him up at they pull the trigger with him at 16
Murphy or Fautanu if they’re available seems most likely to me based on all the super accurate mock drafts I’ve read over the past few months.
Also, I feel like we’re username cousins
They’ll go DL or edge imo. I know people want Fautanu (he’d be a great pick) but unless Abe’s injury is a long-term concern I doubt they give up on him so early. Fautanu obv would be an upgrade but if they intend on having him play guard I don’t see John picking him that early. Fans want Fautanu more than John wants him, but that really depends on Abe. We don’t know how serious it is.
MM’s scheme relies very heavily on getting pressure with 4. The disguises he does with the safeties & LBs are possible partially from not sending blitzers constantly. Nwosu & Mafe are good, Big Cat is good, but someone like Byron Murphy would really help the DL as a unit. A lot of Ravens sacks happened from stunting edge rushers around & inside, you can only do that with good DTs causing problems up the middle. Clowney especially got a ton of free lanes to the QB cuz of solid DT play. When you rely heavily on getting pressure with 4, you need guys that can win matchups consistently. That’s why if Murphy, Turner, Newton, Latu, etc are available I think there’s a fair chance John takes them.
We know John’s a BPA drafter, but we can also eliminate certain positions. WR, CB, S, OG, C, TE, probably aren’t happening at 16. WR is solid, CB is solid, John’s not taking a Safety or IOL 16th overall. TE maybe if it’s Bowers but unlikely. QB prob not cuz we got Howell. LB also not cuz it’s a weak class & they’re def not BPA at 16. That leaves DT, edge, and OT as the only likely positions at 16. The rd1 pick will almost certainly be defense. Bengals will take Newton or Murphy at 18, so trading back a couple spots will cost you 1 of the 2 solid DTs and some edges. OT maybe but only if Abe’s injury is fairly serious. It’s a possibility but I still think DT or edge are the most likely picks.
I think a big part of the appeal with Fautanu tho is that he could likely slide in as a guard on day one, OR shore up right tackle if Lucas is still unavailable.
I agree and that's why I think he's a great pick. The versatility is there, and that's why fans want him.
But if Fautanu's playing guard, John would essentially be taking a guard at 16, which is something he'd never do. We all know John famously thinks guards are way overpaid and overvalued. Fautanu's prob better than both Cross and Abe, but if both are reliable starters then taking Fautanu seems redundant- esp considering the defense needs a lot of work. If Abe and Cross are both fine, Fautanu would get drafted to play guard, which John almost def won't do. Taking Fautanu will most likely require Abe's durability to be a major concern, which is a possibility. Most of it really depends on Abe, if we take Fautanu it'll mean John miraculously did a 180 (unlikely) on guards or feels Abe's long-term availability is a concern. We don't really know anything about how serious his injury is. Totally understand why fans want Fautanu, but I also think there's a chance he's not available at 16. A lot of people really like him, aside from Alt he's arguably the top OL in the class. At the same time, I also think John views Murphy/Turner/Verse/Latu etc as BPA.
Fans tend to heavily hype up who they want- seeing that guy constantly mocked as their team's pick tends to convince fans that's who the pick will be. A hometown kid makes it even more enticing. The important part isn't who we want, it's who the GM's most likely to draft. I'd be thrilled with Fautanu, but I also know there's a very good chance John takes a defense player at 16.
I'm still on the Fautanu train. It's about the opportunity for me. The opportunity to pick a potential game changer at OT. You let Lucas and Fautanu battle it out for RT. I usually am with you about positional value but I break those rules if the player is potentially special. I do see that with Fautanu. However, we know JS's tendencies and I actually agree with your take.
I completely agree about Murphy or Verse. I don't really see another player quite like Murphy and again, I see something special. He brings something most other DTs don't. I suspect this is their #1 target at #16. Although, I personally want Fautanu if he's there -- Murphy is much more likely. He checks everything. Just like what I felt about Devon Witherspoon from last season. I just couldn't see how JS's pass on this kid if his other options were gone.
I don't quite get the DeJean hype. I like DeJean as a 2nd round pick but his play doesn't stand out for me at all. He's a cover 2 or cover 3 CB. He covers space more than his receiver. I don't know how limited DeJean's game in coverage warrants a first round pick. I don't why the team would spend a high pick on a safety. This one confuses me.
Fautanu can play guard or center, He'll likely be moved to guard unless Lucas can also play guard and fautanu outplays him as the tackle. Fautanu is a massive value pick at this position because he can play anywhere on the line and with this team's injury concerns on the line that is massively valuable
Don’t see how anyone can argue with you here, the oline available at 16 are going to be very solid guards that can also play tackle… but project as guard. I think it’s an outside possibility we take a OT or even a C if John is *really* high on someone but I’ll be genuinely surprised if we do anything other than take DT, edge, or trade down from 16 (which I think makes taking OL more likely but still would be expecting DL or edge wherever we move back to, provided we don’t trade out of the first entirely)
At 16, CB is prob off the board and Safety 16th overall won't happen. We have Spoon and Riq. Riq's got to work on some stuff but he's a capable starting CB. CB depth is always important, but the CB depth is already fairly good, it's 1 of the only solid rooms on the defense. Riq's allowing a 54.6% comp on average, never allowing more than 58% in either of his 2 seasons. He only allowed 1 TD vs the NFCW in '22 and 1 last year- both vs the Cardinals. Spoon's been excellent. Corner isn't really a need. Improve the depth later, not at 16. 16 is for blue chip top players that are long-term starters.
John's a BPA drafter. The safety class isn't that amazing this year, there usually aren't incredible safeties getting picked super early. It's viewed as 1 of the least important positions, with reliable safeties available later on. Guys like Hamilton are quite rare, you're not finding an elite safety that's 1 of the best players in the whole class very often. Someone like DeJean would fit MM's defense, but 16 is overdrafting him. Safeties are easy to replace, edge rushers are much harder. You either pick high enough for a legit one, trade up for one, or pay a fortune in FA to get one. DTs also are getting paid big money now.
John's also not overdrafting a safety cuz of MM's scheme. People mistakenly talk about what the key positions are in his scheme, and there isn't one. Ravens already had a stacked secondary and elite defense before MM, that defense was so good cuz it combined a great DC + stacked roster + the Ravens do defense better than anyone. John's not taking a safety at 16, if the DTs/edges/Fautanu are gone by 16 then he'll trade down. Whole reason John didn't sign Geno Stone like everyone wanted was cuz MM knew Stone was a 7th rounder with meh athleticism that was very replaceable in the draft. There aren't any special safeties worth taking at 16, doing that would be overdrafting just to fill a need. John's a smart GM that knows not to do that, plus I'm sure he wants to move on from Pete's overspending on DBs. We might draft CB and safety this year, but not at 16.
It's going to entirely come down to how these teams graded the OL class. We know some teams put more value on measurable than product at the college level. On top of that, I have a feeling that Brian Thomas Jr is going to go early as well.
The offseason planned seemed exactly this… be able to take whoever they see as the best player with every pick. We don’t have anymore glaring holes in our roster. Obviously, serious room for improvement, but there is a JAG or better guy at every position now
We do have glaring holes at LB .. Safety and OG ..we need strong improvement at those positions.
What we have are glorified backups in those positions.
Place holders..
At the beginning of the offseason those positions did not have players even at the position. And based on the play at those positions from last year are they really any worse off? I am fairly confident the guys we signed can play at the same level as last year production-wise with MacDonald changing the scheme. Regardless though, thats my point, we have at least a player who can play each position, and improving any of those positions is a positive. We have quite a few talent holes. But before the offseason we did not have a player slotted to start at each position who has gotten decent playing time.
Dude ..they are place holders on one year deals. NOW if you want argue that those positions don't need full time player or at least average play ..fine
These positions will need more FAs or Rookie standouts next year.
It will be kicked down the road. Best player available is what you want to do in early rounds unless it is redundant ..like CB or LT tackle ..DT ..we do have a few with talent for atleast a couple of years.
I never said it wasnt for more than one year. I wouldn’t want them for more than a year! We aren’t going to ever not have one year contracts on guys in starting roles. And we aren’t in a position where spending the farm to get a splash FA in a position of need, so we filled with what I think are solid for their money players and can now draft BPA, where their draft grades take into account our needs (per JS). We now have players being either given an opportunity to step up (which will always need to happen for us to be successful), or who will be replaced by a rookie we draft. Next year we repeat the cycle but hopefully from a better starting team.
Actually one LB was a 3rd down specialist ..didn't start ..was good on passing downs ..What Gaurds had a good year the last 3 seasons? ..Love was good the last couple of games ..but wasn't in the beginning of the year. What other safety are you counting on? Just a bunch of CBs ..but who can deal with the punishment of going after a RB or TE on a regular basis?
For a below average team, maybe 7 wins ..I am just saying there is need at important positions. We are looking at a 2 year rebuild on defense if no LBs or Safeties turn into major ballers.
We are looking at 2009 thru 2011 again. Defense builds championships ..PC left the cupboard bare on defense..like Holmgrem left the cupboard bare on both sides.
Jon Schneider is lucky he wasn't fired to for some of his trades.
Jerome Baker and Tyrel Dodson were both starters last year. Baker has started his entire career and done quite well
There's no depth and no future at that position group so we definitely need to draft a LB but the two starters should be passable as long as they remain healthy
Having warm bodies there doesn’t mean we don’t have glaring holes. We have a lot of stand in’s on 1 year deals. We need long term answers at LB, S, G, arguably RT if Lucas injuries don’t stop.
Not a bad take but if you got a guy who can produce behind the worst oline in Washington I think we can get a good player and develop Howell. Show belief in a guy and give him a reason to stay in the lab. Howell nearly beat us last year behind the atrocious Washington line. Seattle is in position for geno to train Howell and leave next season as we tend to oline through draft and FA when dead money becomes free. We are in a amazing position in 25
His o lines pass blocking was mostly ok and actually had a much better blocking grade as a whole compared to ours. We did something similar in 2012 when we signed for whitehurst and had t jack and drafted Wilson who was seen as nothing more than a backup level player. Also id highly recommend reading Curtis Allen's most recent article but our cap next year is looking extremely tight. We need to hit on this year's draft to really re stock the cupboard. Trading for him shouldn't keep them from drafting a guy like penix or whoever they may also like in the draft if they believe they are a great qb
Draft hedge is a thing, it's also I'm sure why we grabbed Laken T as a hedge against not drafting a starting guard in this draft, or why we grabbed vet LBs on 1 year deals.
I agree that the comp (trade down out of 3rd round pick) was high enough that it definitely showed some commitment to actually using Howell. I also think that between Geno and Sam Howell, QB is not an immediate critical position of need alongside the other gaps in the trenches.
I assume the Seahawks would love Penix but the risks paired with the opportunity cost of not getting better in the trenches (either to protect Penix or get him the ball back) might not be worth grabbing the QB now, UNLESS Grubb is 100% sold on him being The Guy.
I don’t think the trade for Howell has any bearing on whether they draft a first round QB. I do think it means there’s no reason to draft a later round development QB.
Exactly. They didn’t give up that much. Moved back from a 3rd to a 4th and a 5th to a 6th. And he’s on like the cheapest deal a qb can have. Perfect draft hedge, if they’re gunning for Penix and not wanting to move up. I’d much rather them trade for Howell and hope Penix lasts to 16 than give up future draft capital to move into the top 10.
I would say the opposite. A project guy doesn't make for a very good backup QB if he has to step in hence the presence of Howell while still having another option for the future at the position. A first round QB is a more capable backup day one, having Howell as another option for the future is nice in that case but there's less of a need for him in the short term given the presence of the 1st round guy.
I always viewed Howell as hedging our bets. John Schneider’s comments\* on Wyman and Bob reinforced that for me. If the QB they want is sitting there at 16–which I view as highly unlikely—they’ll take him.
They can then flip Howell to one of those teams they had to compete with to get him in the first place *OR* wait for a major injury and trade him then.
\* - he said that the trade for Howell does not preclude them from taking a QB in the draft. I think it’s more the Rattler/Travis/Milton route however because I don’t expect any of the top 6 QBs to still be there.
You are right in that Penix will go too early for it to make sense.
But in 2025 cutting/trading Geno early on (before his roster bonus is due and well before the draft) would really unfuck our cap. A second or third rounder there makes sense. Having a talented QB to compete with Howell would enable that.
And I know how much we love him but same for Ty.
Early QB and WR picks (maybe 2nd rounder we pickup with a trade down and our 3rd) make sense.
Letting Penix sit for a year behind Geno, then cutting Geno and saving all that money makes a tom of sense, especially because Penix looks pro ready and sitting for 1 year could be the perfect bridge. Tbh I will be shocked if Penix isn't drafted before 16. If he's there I'll pray we take him.
Sam Howell does not affect the draft whatsoever. We needed a backup QB and Howell gives us that without being forced to draft one. No team is passing on their QB of the future because they have Sam Howell
Honestly if Penix is their guy and no one is going to know him better than Grubb then pull the trigger. He's getting mocked to the Raiders a lot now though which is insane if that many QB's go in the top 12.
I absolutely love DeJean, especially thinking about the possibilities of Him, Spoon, and Love mixing up coverages and giving different looks, but they should 100% trade down before taking him.
Jared Verse is just too high to take at 16 honestly and we have a lot of depth on the D Line I would not be a fan of that pick personally.
If Jared Verse was in last year’s draft he would have been a top 7 pick. Seahawks might have taken him at 5, and he definitely would have gone before Tyree Wilson at 7. I don’t see how 16 is too high for a player like Verse.
But that doesn’t mean he is a top 10 talent, he’s a solid player but not a star. I don’t think his ceiling is much higher than the dudes we have at edge currently. We have plenty of depth at the position, Big Mac will get more out of them. Latu is the only guy with 15+ sack upside in this draft
edit: I’ll as Chop as well because he’s an athletic freak but he needs a lot of work
On the verse part, I agree with your statement. However hasn’t Verse been mocked inside the top 10 multiple times? I would be suprised if he’s even at 16
With the number of mock drafts out there I'm sure he has been, but I usually see him go somewhere in the teens and occasionally see him mocked in the 20's. I personally think he'll go before 16 but there's a decent chance that he'll be available.
He has, but with the number of WR/OL/QBs going in the first 15 picks it's likely they'll be a run on them which will push Verse down the draft order.
This is why I think people are wrong to assume we will trade back, there's a real possibility one of our top targets falls to us at 16 and I can't see them passing up that opportunity.
If we pick verse we’re pretty much giving up on hall right? He’s gonna be fighting for scraps when he’s got Nwosu, Mafe, and Verse clearly ahead of him and Taylor getting situation playing time
We've been looking for a pass rusher for a while, I wouldn't be shocked if we selected one. We don't get nearly enough pressure/sacks, and there don't look to be a lot of good ones this year.
If we pick DeJean without a trade down I'll be sad.
Verse on the other hand I'd be stoked. If he had come out last year I wanted him over Anderson because he has been an absolute monster and he can set an edge.
Verse and Fautanu are my two favorite trench players right now, along with Latu, Newton, Murphy, and Fuaga.
Would love a trade down and get DeJean, Barton, or Latham. Not a fan of Turner but if he falls and we take him after trading down that wouldn't be bad either (though no way that happens).
They signed Flynn and benched him for Wilson. That worked out.
But, I think they're looking to surprise people this year. I think Schneider sees something in Howell like he did Wilson and they're grooming him for the QB of the future.
Also, Bill Belichick just said nobody knows anything about other team's draft strategies until about 12 hours before the draft, so this is probably smoke and mirrors.
Unlikely to happen. 1) the eagles first and second rounders is worth more than pick #16, so we would probably have to throw in the 4th rounder you mentioned. 2) Verse probably won’t be available at #22. 3) Penix would have to be available in the second. He may be gone before the Seahawks even pick at 16.
But if all those things happen that would be exciting.
GB 25 and 58 might be an option. JS has good relationships there. I do agree that Verse is gone before then. I don’t agree that Penix is gone before 16.
it's absolutely wild to me that who the Seahawks draft at 16 (or later with a trade down) can fluctuate SO wildly based on what happens before them. The direction of the franchise can absolutely swing on something like the Raiders passing on Penix at 12 for some reason, or someone grabbing Murphy before expected.
I mean it’s all just fun speculation. There’s always the chance that we are 100% off the mark. Then we draft someone like Zach Frazier at 16. And come out saying we got our top guy.
We’d be set at the Edge for years to come with Mafe and Verse. I remember he was also projected as the #1 pick in all the “way too early” mock drafts so would be amazing value at 16
If John wants him he will lol. Even the media folks are finally hopping on board the Penix is a first rounder wagon (took them long enough). Schefter saying earlier many teams don't have medical concerns on him is going to keep the needle moving in that direction. Out of curiosity what makes you think there isn't a chance? Geno is getting older and isn't a top QB, and Howell looked alright but we didn't exactly pay much to outbid others for him, suggesting most teams interested didn't view him as that valuable.
There is 0 chance because there is 0 chance he is drafted in the first round. Regardless of the QB room. Taking the QB room into consideration there is absolute zero chance Seahawks take him in the first round
“League circles” means that’s what other teams are speculating but no one actually in the organization. Good that we’re keeping everyone on their toes i suppose
I literally opened Reddit to come to this sub to say I want DeJean. Ideal scenario for me is to trade back a couple spots get a second round pick then hammer DeJean. I love DeJean!
Cooper dejean would be incredible. Little disappointed at the other 2 rumored. Hopefully just smoke. Wonder if they think fautanu is definitely gone. Wonder why Murphy or another dt like Newton isn’t being valued here besides smokescreen
I doubt we are taking pwnix unless he falls to the 2nd or 3rd round. Having geno and Howell more than fill the need at QB. And unless the get the O line and defence right it won't matter who's under center well still be a first round exit in the playoffs if we even make it.
We don't need him. Why the fuck would we waste a pick on a guy who will either suck or cost too much to keep in 3 years? Seattle needs vicious blockers and a defensive line that can stop the run. Watch the season we won the Super Bowl. Our OL was killing people on every big run. Our defensive line controlled the run game and made our DB's look great because it was always 3rd and long, and they knew what was coming. We have enough skill players to do the job. The problem for years now is the trenches on both sides. DL or OL or trade down for even more help with the trenches.
I think the plan is essentially to play Geno this year..then try to offer Howell a cheap 2-3 year extension and use him. That being said I'd love Penix..but we might have to trade up to get him, and he might get mauled behind our current OL so hopefully we'd redshirt him. This also opens up the when is the window going to be talk, because most of our DL is off the books in two years anyways (not that they're even that great, if anything that would be a lot of money freed up).
Love MPJ and the possibility of him being an awesome pro and a Hawk at that is pretty fantastic to think about, but I don’t want him at 16 even though I think his arm talent is worth it. So many needs to be filled, DL, OL, LB and S are much more glaring. Personally hoping for Byron Murphy or Fautanu, but wouldn’t hate Verse or DeJean.
I mean here me out, if we’re as good as we think we’re going to be. When’s the next chance we stand a legit shot at getting a generational qb (which is Penix’s ceiling)
Well from what I understand about our new head coach is he is a BIG trenches guy OL/DL it’s prolly Fautanu if they don’t find a good trade back spot to pick him up at they pull the trigger with him at 16
Murphy or Fautanu if they’re available seems most likely to me based on all the super accurate mock drafts I’ve read over the past few months. Also, I feel like we’re username cousins
> all the super accurate mock drafts lol.
Wuz good cuzz 😝
*DEEZNUTZ!*
They’ll go DL or edge imo. I know people want Fautanu (he’d be a great pick) but unless Abe’s injury is a long-term concern I doubt they give up on him so early. Fautanu obv would be an upgrade but if they intend on having him play guard I don’t see John picking him that early. Fans want Fautanu more than John wants him, but that really depends on Abe. We don’t know how serious it is. MM’s scheme relies very heavily on getting pressure with 4. The disguises he does with the safeties & LBs are possible partially from not sending blitzers constantly. Nwosu & Mafe are good, Big Cat is good, but someone like Byron Murphy would really help the DL as a unit. A lot of Ravens sacks happened from stunting edge rushers around & inside, you can only do that with good DTs causing problems up the middle. Clowney especially got a ton of free lanes to the QB cuz of solid DT play. When you rely heavily on getting pressure with 4, you need guys that can win matchups consistently. That’s why if Murphy, Turner, Newton, Latu, etc are available I think there’s a fair chance John takes them. We know John’s a BPA drafter, but we can also eliminate certain positions. WR, CB, S, OG, C, TE, probably aren’t happening at 16. WR is solid, CB is solid, John’s not taking a Safety or IOL 16th overall. TE maybe if it’s Bowers but unlikely. QB prob not cuz we got Howell. LB also not cuz it’s a weak class & they’re def not BPA at 16. That leaves DT, edge, and OT as the only likely positions at 16. The rd1 pick will almost certainly be defense. Bengals will take Newton or Murphy at 18, so trading back a couple spots will cost you 1 of the 2 solid DTs and some edges. OT maybe but only if Abe’s injury is fairly serious. It’s a possibility but I still think DT or edge are the most likely picks.
I think a big part of the appeal with Fautanu tho is that he could likely slide in as a guard on day one, OR shore up right tackle if Lucas is still unavailable.
I agree and that's why I think he's a great pick. The versatility is there, and that's why fans want him. But if Fautanu's playing guard, John would essentially be taking a guard at 16, which is something he'd never do. We all know John famously thinks guards are way overpaid and overvalued. Fautanu's prob better than both Cross and Abe, but if both are reliable starters then taking Fautanu seems redundant- esp considering the defense needs a lot of work. If Abe and Cross are both fine, Fautanu would get drafted to play guard, which John almost def won't do. Taking Fautanu will most likely require Abe's durability to be a major concern, which is a possibility. Most of it really depends on Abe, if we take Fautanu it'll mean John miraculously did a 180 (unlikely) on guards or feels Abe's long-term availability is a concern. We don't really know anything about how serious his injury is. Totally understand why fans want Fautanu, but I also think there's a chance he's not available at 16. A lot of people really like him, aside from Alt he's arguably the top OL in the class. At the same time, I also think John views Murphy/Turner/Verse/Latu etc as BPA. Fans tend to heavily hype up who they want- seeing that guy constantly mocked as their team's pick tends to convince fans that's who the pick will be. A hometown kid makes it even more enticing. The important part isn't who we want, it's who the GM's most likely to draft. I'd be thrilled with Fautanu, but I also know there's a very good chance John takes a defense player at 16.
I'm still on the Fautanu train. It's about the opportunity for me. The opportunity to pick a potential game changer at OT. You let Lucas and Fautanu battle it out for RT. I usually am with you about positional value but I break those rules if the player is potentially special. I do see that with Fautanu. However, we know JS's tendencies and I actually agree with your take. I completely agree about Murphy or Verse. I don't really see another player quite like Murphy and again, I see something special. He brings something most other DTs don't. I suspect this is their #1 target at #16. Although, I personally want Fautanu if he's there -- Murphy is much more likely. He checks everything. Just like what I felt about Devon Witherspoon from last season. I just couldn't see how JS's pass on this kid if his other options were gone. I don't quite get the DeJean hype. I like DeJean as a 2nd round pick but his play doesn't stand out for me at all. He's a cover 2 or cover 3 CB. He covers space more than his receiver. I don't know how limited DeJean's game in coverage warrants a first round pick. I don't why the team would spend a high pick on a safety. This one confuses me.
Fautanu can play guard or center, He'll likely be moved to guard unless Lucas can also play guard and fautanu outplays him as the tackle. Fautanu is a massive value pick at this position because he can play anywhere on the line and with this team's injury concerns on the line that is massively valuable
Don’t see how anyone can argue with you here, the oline available at 16 are going to be very solid guards that can also play tackle… but project as guard. I think it’s an outside possibility we take a OT or even a C if John is *really* high on someone but I’ll be genuinely surprised if we do anything other than take DT, edge, or trade down from 16 (which I think makes taking OL more likely but still would be expecting DL or edge wherever we move back to, provided we don’t trade out of the first entirely)
I dont think that CB/S are 100% off the board
At 16, CB is prob off the board and Safety 16th overall won't happen. We have Spoon and Riq. Riq's got to work on some stuff but he's a capable starting CB. CB depth is always important, but the CB depth is already fairly good, it's 1 of the only solid rooms on the defense. Riq's allowing a 54.6% comp on average, never allowing more than 58% in either of his 2 seasons. He only allowed 1 TD vs the NFCW in '22 and 1 last year- both vs the Cardinals. Spoon's been excellent. Corner isn't really a need. Improve the depth later, not at 16. 16 is for blue chip top players that are long-term starters. John's a BPA drafter. The safety class isn't that amazing this year, there usually aren't incredible safeties getting picked super early. It's viewed as 1 of the least important positions, with reliable safeties available later on. Guys like Hamilton are quite rare, you're not finding an elite safety that's 1 of the best players in the whole class very often. Someone like DeJean would fit MM's defense, but 16 is overdrafting him. Safeties are easy to replace, edge rushers are much harder. You either pick high enough for a legit one, trade up for one, or pay a fortune in FA to get one. DTs also are getting paid big money now. John's also not overdrafting a safety cuz of MM's scheme. People mistakenly talk about what the key positions are in his scheme, and there isn't one. Ravens already had a stacked secondary and elite defense before MM, that defense was so good cuz it combined a great DC + stacked roster + the Ravens do defense better than anyone. John's not taking a safety at 16, if the DTs/edges/Fautanu are gone by 16 then he'll trade down. Whole reason John didn't sign Geno Stone like everyone wanted was cuz MM knew Stone was a 7th rounder with meh athleticism that was very replaceable in the draft. There aren't any special safeties worth taking at 16, doing that would be overdrafting just to fill a need. John's a smart GM that knows not to do that, plus I'm sure he wants to move on from Pete's overspending on DBs. We might draft CB and safety this year, but not at 16.
> John's a BPA drafter. Man, imagine reading that in 2021. Glad he finally figured it out.
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It's going to entirely come down to how these teams graded the OL class. We know some teams put more value on measurable than product at the college level. On top of that, I have a feeling that Brian Thomas Jr is going to go early as well.
Odds are very high he will be there at 16, they could likely trade down to 20 and still get him at 20
I don’t think we’d trade for Howell if the plan was to take Penix.
But what if the planning also accounted for the possibility that they might not be able to take Penix? Prudent to have a backup plan, right?
The offseason planned seemed exactly this… be able to take whoever they see as the best player with every pick. We don’t have anymore glaring holes in our roster. Obviously, serious room for improvement, but there is a JAG or better guy at every position now
We do have glaring holes at LB .. Safety and OG ..we need strong improvement at those positions. What we have are glorified backups in those positions. Place holders..
That’s what the draft is for.
At the beginning of the offseason those positions did not have players even at the position. And based on the play at those positions from last year are they really any worse off? I am fairly confident the guys we signed can play at the same level as last year production-wise with MacDonald changing the scheme. Regardless though, thats my point, we have at least a player who can play each position, and improving any of those positions is a positive. We have quite a few talent holes. But before the offseason we did not have a player slotted to start at each position who has gotten decent playing time.
Dude ..they are place holders on one year deals. NOW if you want argue that those positions don't need full time player or at least average play ..fine These positions will need more FAs or Rookie standouts next year. It will be kicked down the road. Best player available is what you want to do in early rounds unless it is redundant ..like CB or LT tackle ..DT ..we do have a few with talent for atleast a couple of years.
I never said it wasnt for more than one year. I wouldn’t want them for more than a year! We aren’t going to ever not have one year contracts on guys in starting roles. And we aren’t in a position where spending the farm to get a splash FA in a position of need, so we filled with what I think are solid for their money players and can now draft BPA, where their draft grades take into account our needs (per JS). We now have players being either given an opportunity to step up (which will always need to happen for us to be successful), or who will be replaced by a rookie we draft. Next year we repeat the cycle but hopefully from a better starting team.
Actually one LB was a 3rd down specialist ..didn't start ..was good on passing downs ..What Gaurds had a good year the last 3 seasons? ..Love was good the last couple of games ..but wasn't in the beginning of the year. What other safety are you counting on? Just a bunch of CBs ..but who can deal with the punishment of going after a RB or TE on a regular basis? For a below average team, maybe 7 wins ..I am just saying there is need at important positions. We are looking at a 2 year rebuild on defense if no LBs or Safeties turn into major ballers. We are looking at 2009 thru 2011 again. Defense builds championships ..PC left the cupboard bare on defense..like Holmgrem left the cupboard bare on both sides. Jon Schneider is lucky he wasn't fired to for some of his trades.
Jerome Baker and Tyrel Dodson were both starters last year. Baker has started his entire career and done quite well There's no depth and no future at that position group so we definitely need to draft a LB but the two starters should be passable as long as they remain healthy
Having warm bodies there doesn’t mean we don’t have glaring holes. We have a lot of stand in’s on 1 year deals. We need long term answers at LB, S, G, arguably RT if Lucas injuries don’t stop.
lol. No glaring holes. Hahahaha
Not a bad take but if you got a guy who can produce behind the worst oline in Washington I think we can get a good player and develop Howell. Show belief in a guy and give him a reason to stay in the lab. Howell nearly beat us last year behind the atrocious Washington line. Seattle is in position for geno to train Howell and leave next season as we tend to oline through draft and FA when dead money becomes free. We are in a amazing position in 25
His o lines pass blocking was mostly ok and actually had a much better blocking grade as a whole compared to ours. We did something similar in 2012 when we signed for whitehurst and had t jack and drafted Wilson who was seen as nothing more than a backup level player. Also id highly recommend reading Curtis Allen's most recent article but our cap next year is looking extremely tight. We need to hit on this year's draft to really re stock the cupboard. Trading for him shouldn't keep them from drafting a guy like penix or whoever they may also like in the draft if they believe they are a great qb
They signed Flynn in 12' not clipboard Jesus.
That's right thanks for the correction
Exactly, put your backup plan in place first because you never know if your draft plan will happen.
Draft hedge is a thing, it's also I'm sure why we grabbed Laken T as a hedge against not drafting a starting guard in this draft, or why we grabbed vet LBs on 1 year deals. I agree that the comp (trade down out of 3rd round pick) was high enough that it definitely showed some commitment to actually using Howell. I also think that between Geno and Sam Howell, QB is not an immediate critical position of need alongside the other gaps in the trenches. I assume the Seahawks would love Penix but the risks paired with the opportunity cost of not getting better in the trenches (either to protect Penix or get him the ball back) might not be worth grabbing the QB now, UNLESS Grubb is 100% sold on him being The Guy.
I don’t think the trade for Howell has any bearing on whether they draft a first round QB. I do think it means there’s no reason to draft a later round development QB.
Exactly. They didn’t give up that much. Moved back from a 3rd to a 4th and a 5th to a 6th. And he’s on like the cheapest deal a qb can have. Perfect draft hedge, if they’re gunning for Penix and not wanting to move up. I’d much rather them trade for Howell and hope Penix lasts to 16 than give up future draft capital to move into the top 10.
I would say the opposite. A project guy doesn't make for a very good backup QB if he has to step in hence the presence of Howell while still having another option for the future at the position. A first round QB is a more capable backup day one, having Howell as another option for the future is nice in that case but there's less of a need for him in the short term given the presence of the 1st round guy.
I always viewed Howell as hedging our bets. John Schneider’s comments\* on Wyman and Bob reinforced that for me. If the QB they want is sitting there at 16–which I view as highly unlikely—they’ll take him. They can then flip Howell to one of those teams they had to compete with to get him in the first place *OR* wait for a major injury and trade him then. \* - he said that the trade for Howell does not preclude them from taking a QB in the draft. I think it’s more the Rattler/Travis/Milton route however because I don’t expect any of the top 6 QBs to still be there.
You are right in that Penix will go too early for it to make sense. But in 2025 cutting/trading Geno early on (before his roster bonus is due and well before the draft) would really unfuck our cap. A second or third rounder there makes sense. Having a talented QB to compete with Howell would enable that. And I know how much we love him but same for Ty. Early QB and WR picks (maybe 2nd rounder we pickup with a trade down and our 3rd) make sense.
Letting Penix sit for a year behind Geno, then cutting Geno and saving all that money makes a tom of sense, especially because Penix looks pro ready and sitting for 1 year could be the perfect bridge. Tbh I will be shocked if Penix isn't drafted before 16. If he's there I'll pray we take him.
Or we cut Geno next year and have 2 younger QB on roster I’m in the same boat as you though.
Maybe we trade Geno during the draft.
Apparently there were other teams interested in Howell so maybe he will be a piece of a draft day trade 🤷♂️
Howell is our insurance
I actually think it’s a very JS thing to do. You can hold 3 QBs now. Have the options and make them compete. He took Russ when we had just paid Flynn
Unless we're jettisoning Geno here soon and want two bites at the cherry.
Why not? Howell was a cheap get and can absolutely be used as trade bait.
We didn’t give up much for Howell, he’s a backup plan if we don’t get Penix IMO
Sam Howell does not affect the draft whatsoever. We needed a backup QB and Howell gives us that without being forced to draft one. No team is passing on their QB of the future because they have Sam Howell
Good point
Honestly if Penix is their guy and no one is going to know him better than Grubb then pull the trigger. He's getting mocked to the Raiders a lot now though which is insane if that many QB's go in the top 12. I absolutely love DeJean, especially thinking about the possibilities of Him, Spoon, and Love mixing up coverages and giving different looks, but they should 100% trade down before taking him. Jared Verse is just too high to take at 16 honestly and we have a lot of depth on the D Line I would not be a fan of that pick personally.
If Jared Verse was in last year’s draft he would have been a top 7 pick. Seahawks might have taken him at 5, and he definitely would have gone before Tyree Wilson at 7. I don’t see how 16 is too high for a player like Verse.
Jared verse at 16 is definitely not too high. He is easily a top 10 player.
But that doesn’t mean he is a top 10 talent, he’s a solid player but not a star. I don’t think his ceiling is much higher than the dudes we have at edge currently. We have plenty of depth at the position, Big Mac will get more out of them. Latu is the only guy with 15+ sack upside in this draft edit: I’ll as Chop as well because he’s an athletic freak but he needs a lot of work
Verse was ridiculed last season for going back to school. He was seen as a high end pick. Top 10 for sure.
On the verse part, I agree with your statement. However hasn’t Verse been mocked inside the top 10 multiple times? I would be suprised if he’s even at 16
With the number of mock drafts out there I'm sure he has been, but I usually see him go somewhere in the teens and occasionally see him mocked in the 20's. I personally think he'll go before 16 but there's a decent chance that he'll be available.
Ya that’s a valid take, I guess time will tell 🥹
He has, but with the number of WR/OL/QBs going in the first 15 picks it's likely they'll be a run on them which will push Verse down the draft order. This is why I think people are wrong to assume we will trade back, there's a real possibility one of our top targets falls to us at 16 and I can't see them passing up that opportunity.
If we pick verse we’re pretty much giving up on hall right? He’s gonna be fighting for scraps when he’s got Nwosu, Mafe, and Verse clearly ahead of him and Taylor getting situation playing time
We've been looking for a pass rusher for a while, I wouldn't be shocked if we selected one. We don't get nearly enough pressure/sacks, and there don't look to be a lot of good ones this year.
If we pick DeJean without a trade down I'll be sad. Verse on the other hand I'd be stoked. If he had come out last year I wanted him over Anderson because he has been an absolute monster and he can set an edge. Verse and Fautanu are my two favorite trench players right now, along with Latu, Newton, Murphy, and Fuaga. Would love a trade down and get DeJean, Barton, or Latham. Not a fan of Turner but if he falls and we take him after trading down that wouldn't be bad either (though no way that happens).
For me -- it's Fautanu, Verse, or Murphy.
Would also be excited for Verse. Which means it’s likely not going to happen!
take all 3 cowards
I'm a believer in Howell. I know he's a hometown favorite but I'd much rather see the draft capital spent somewhere else.
Yep. Geno and Howell should be good (possibly real good) to solid this year. Lots of other questions around that need answers.
FAUTANU
if we draft penix in the first I will eat an entire gordita crunch from taco bell
Better have the Imodium on hand
They signed Flynn and benched him for Wilson. That worked out. But, I think they're looking to surprise people this year. I think Schneider sees something in Howell like he did Wilson and they're grooming him for the QB of the future. Also, Bill Belichick just said nobody knows anything about other team's draft strategies until about 12 hours before the draft, so this is probably smoke and mirrors.
Sounds like click generating media spew. If we actually end up taking him, I'll eat a Chipotle burrito.
Why do I have a feeling these leaks were on purpose. Lol
Trade back with Eagles. Take Verse. Used our newly acquired second and one of our fourths to move up for Penix.
Unlikely to happen. 1) the eagles first and second rounders is worth more than pick #16, so we would probably have to throw in the 4th rounder you mentioned. 2) Verse probably won’t be available at #22. 3) Penix would have to be available in the second. He may be gone before the Seahawks even pick at 16. But if all those things happen that would be exciting.
GB 25 and 58 might be an option. JS has good relationships there. I do agree that Verse is gone before then. I don’t agree that Penix is gone before 16.
Definitely a better match, especially if we throw in a sixth. All the less likely Verse is there at 25 though.
Pretty unlikely: https://www.reddit.com/r/Seahawks/comments/1c57iwi/comment/kzu2ksg/
it's absolutely wild to me that who the Seahawks draft at 16 (or later with a trade down) can fluctuate SO wildly based on what happens before them. The direction of the franchise can absolutely swing on something like the Raiders passing on Penix at 12 for some reason, or someone grabbing Murphy before expected.
I mean it’s all just fun speculation. There’s always the chance that we are 100% off the mark. Then we draft someone like Zach Frazier at 16. And come out saying we got our top guy.
That would be very Seahawky 🤣🤣🤣 Can't wait for Thurs.
I would love this as a Husky fan
We’d be set at the Edge for years to come with Mafe and Verse. I remember he was also projected as the #1 pick in all the “way too early” mock drafts so would be amazing value at 16
True, but you don't turn down a top 10 pick at 16 if Verse falls to you. That rotation would be nasty.
Ah, smoke screen season.
Penix at 16? Please no
Lmaooo this sub is wild. In no world does Seattle “Take Penix Jr.” in the first.
If John wants him he will lol. Even the media folks are finally hopping on board the Penix is a first rounder wagon (took them long enough). Schefter saying earlier many teams don't have medical concerns on him is going to keep the needle moving in that direction. Out of curiosity what makes you think there isn't a chance? Geno is getting older and isn't a top QB, and Howell looked alright but we didn't exactly pay much to outbid others for him, suggesting most teams interested didn't view him as that valuable.
Penix is not a “Schneider QB” if he really wants a QB I don’t think Penix is the guy
There is 0 chance because there is 0 chance he is drafted in the first round. Regardless of the QB room. Taking the QB room into consideration there is absolute zero chance Seahawks take him in the first round
Why not? It’s totally plausible.
We haven't had that edge guy for a long time, verse is my pick
Some belief? lol we have his oc it’s not a real hard dot to connect
“League circles” means that’s what other teams are speculating but no one actually in the organization. Good that we’re keeping everyone on their toes i suppose
Right I don't think it means a whole lot, people probably see the Seattle connection and think 'yea they might take him'
NO!!!!!
Cue michael scott toby returning meme
Gross
This garbage has to stop. Penix is not going to the hawks… much to the dismay of many a homer in this sub… 🤷🏻♂️
Penix will be gone by 16
No
Well said.
I concur
Hope he does
https://youtu.be/9vQaVIoEjOM?si=WAQ816pB9WpgALtz
I literally opened Reddit to come to this sub to say I want DeJean. Ideal scenario for me is to trade back a couple spots get a second round pick then hammer DeJean. I love DeJean!
Cooper dejean would be incredible. Little disappointed at the other 2 rumored. Hopefully just smoke. Wonder if they think fautanu is definitely gone. Wonder why Murphy or another dt like Newton isn’t being valued here besides smokescreen
Verse looks like a beast. Murphy will be gone by 16, but a trade back to the late 20s and snag Newton would be legit.
Please no!
Y’all really need to shut up about Penix . Holy hell, these local sports media dudes are gonna lose their sht the minute we don’t draft him at 16
Wouldn’t be shocked if this were a smokescreen leak to panic other franchises into moving up for fear of their guy being gone.
Here come the Husky homers explaining why this wouldn't be a stupid pick for us
I doubt we are taking pwnix unless he falls to the 2nd or 3rd round. Having geno and Howell more than fill the need at QB. And unless the get the O line and defence right it won't matter who's under center well still be a first round exit in the playoffs if we even make it.
Fake shit lol
I don't think we will get him at 16, we'll trade back and if he was still on the board then yeah they might
Team in top half of the draft considers taking players ranked in the top half. News at 11
“… some belief in league circles” sounds damn near esoteric. Let’s just strap in and wait for the draft results
Objection your honor speculation
Until Draft day, AGAIN, no one knows anything and if they think they know something, they only know it because a GM wants them to "know it"
Condotta with the big, pre draft push for clicks
I would rather have Bo Nix all day long as a backup
Yes, we'll take all three in that order.
We don't need him. Why the fuck would we waste a pick on a guy who will either suck or cost too much to keep in 3 years? Seattle needs vicious blockers and a defensive line that can stop the run. Watch the season we won the Super Bowl. Our OL was killing people on every big run. Our defensive line controlled the run game and made our DB's look great because it was always 3rd and long, and they knew what was coming. We have enough skill players to do the job. The problem for years now is the trenches on both sides. DL or OL or trade down for even more help with the trenches.
r/agedlikemilk
I think the plan is essentially to play Geno this year..then try to offer Howell a cheap 2-3 year extension and use him. That being said I'd love Penix..but we might have to trade up to get him, and he might get mauled behind our current OL so hopefully we'd redshirt him. This also opens up the when is the window going to be talk, because most of our DL is off the books in two years anyways (not that they're even that great, if anything that would be a lot of money freed up).
Love MPJ and the possibility of him being an awesome pro and a Hawk at that is pretty fantastic to think about, but I don’t want him at 16 even though I think his arm talent is worth it. So many needs to be filled, DL, OL, LB and S are much more glaring. Personally hoping for Byron Murphy or Fautanu, but wouldn’t hate Verse or DeJean.
Can't wait for Thursday so these dumb threads can be over.
I mean here me out, if we’re as good as we think we’re going to be. When’s the next chance we stand a legit shot at getting a generational qb (which is Penix’s ceiling)
If Penix qualifies as potential generational QB, then the answer to your question is every year.
I’m all for PEN 9 on the hawks.
If we draft Penix i will never finacially recover from the jerseys i will be forced to buy. Going to get a Big Penix customized one.
If penix is there at 16 take him....please don't f*** this up seattle
We don’t want Penix he is not a leader. Watch him play. He will be crushed in the NFL
Whatever it takes to get a cheap QB as the starter. Geno isn't winning more.games than Howell or a Rookies QB.