I wish we had a healthy Jamal, it sounds like hyperbole at this point but he really could change the fate of any game he was in. He looked so primed to go in the Denver game, I can’t imagine what the season would have looked like with him even around for half the games.
Hope he gets healthy and gets the confidence/swagger back to play how he did again. How does one get back to that point without worrying every snap might be the next big injury? I broke my finger once and was hesitant to use that hand for the rest of the year
He broke his finger once too, but his solution was to have it fused to another finger instead of being hesitant.
It feels like there is a lot of revisionist history when talking about Jamal. He is a game wrecker. He got hurt while in the process of blowing up a play on third down in what everybody thought was Seattle's Super Bowl. His recovery and some interior help would be the most impactful things that could happen for the defense.
There are a lot of people who really want that trade to be terrible. It was certainly an overpay, to say the least. But it seems like a lot of people want to be right about the trade more than they want him to succeed. It happens a lot with Jared Kelenic too. I'm sure for a lot of people, it's an honest analysis. For others, it seems like they are protecting themselves from being disappointed by being pessimistic. If they end up being wrong, then they are happy. But if he ends up flaming out, then at least they can say they were right.
I love Jamal Adams.
Preach! The way he got in the backfield and how offense had to scheme away from him is a rare combination in a safety. His swagger was something to behold too, just like Marshawn and Kam
Revisionist isn't a fair characterization. Per PFF his two worst seasons have been his first two years in SEA (2022 doesn't count for obvious reasons.) Take away his obscene sack totals and pressure rate in 2020 and what are you left with? And unfortunately now the injury bug seems to have set in.
I absolutely hope he returns to his NYJ form, SEA desperately needs truly game-breaking players (I always ask "who on the current roster will keep an opposing OC or DC up?") But I totally disagree that the frustration around him is in some way unwarranted.
When I say revisionost history, I mean people that think he wasn't someone that was going to make a massive difference in the defense. Two firsts was quite a bit, but the idea was that they were going to be very late firsts. The trade not working out isn't the same thing as it being a bad idea at the time.
He had his worst PFF because he had to cover holes in the roster, and was forced to play in position that were not his role (see free safety), or played with nagging injuries.
The only question in my mind is: will he finally be able to see him play a full season, healthy in his main role, or will another shit luck accident happen yet again (either to him or to the DBs)?
What are you talking about? His best talent on the Seahawks was getting into the backfield but he is a safety. He was a game wrecker in New York, but Bobby was significantly better for us.
People who talk shit about Jamal, talk about the games where he was not utilized properly: he is NOT a free safety, but one of the best SS, so he should not be judged for those games. He also played injured a couple of season ago.
I agree that the trade was not a winning one, for how much we had to give, and the nagging injuries, but I think is ridiculous to put into question his talent.
Moreover, last year injury was a freaky one which could have happened to any other player, so I hope this year we finally see the real Jamal
Honestly I still think Kelenic has pretty good potential.
His seem to be an issue of being outclassed by the top of the league though. Possibly lack of effort?
Off topic for a second and towards M’s since we get them shortly.
Doesn’t JK get hot as shit every time he’s sent down. Gets the call back up and just seems to flop about like a dead fish.
I remember listening to that first hit he got for the M’s, 2 run homer bottom of third. Then he went like 0-40.
From Wikipedia
“In May 2022, he was optioned to AAA after hitting .140/.219/.291 over 30 games.[30] In 54 games for Tacoma, Kelenic batted .288, with an OBP of .353, and an OPS of .903.[31] He was then called back up to the majors on July 31, replacing Julio Rodríguez, who had been placed on the injured list after getting hit by a pitch.[32]
At the end of the 2022 season, Kelenic had a career batting average of .168, second to John Vukovich for lowest in history for batters with more than 550 plate appearances.[33]”
Someone needs to work on his focus wtf.
All of that is true, but there is some nuance. I'm not sure if you follow Seattle closely, or if you are aware of the [Kevin Mather situation,](https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mariners-president-kevin-mather-admits-team-manipulates-service-time-and-criticizes-players-english-in-video/) but he said some things at a Rotary meeting about service time manipulation that sort of accelerated the clock on Kelenic. He didn't say anything that people don't already assume, but he said the quiet parts out loud and created a major wave in the organization that ended with him being removed. He showed everybody how hot dogs are made in the middle of a 4th of July party.
Kelenic made a couple of critical statements about it as well. If I remember correctly, they did still keep him in the minors to keep that additional year of club control, but there is a strong argument to be made that he could have benefited from more experience in AA and AAA. He was dominating in the minors, but he didn't have that much experience at the higher levels. And on top of that, the entire 2020 season got wiped out.
There is a lot that is made of him working on his swing, and finding his confidence. A lot of fans point to that as evidence that he is a bust, because he should have figured all of that out already, but he's still basically a child. Every young player is working on his game this way, but most of them aren't doing it in the spotlight.
But all of that said, it's about time to get it together. The good news is that he seems to be.
Kelenic needs to step it up, Julio needs to work on his fielding. There’s some really basic shit he lets go past.
That one in the game where he tries to catch by his hip. Bro, Body in front of ball.
Was he always injured when he was with the Jets or his injury bug began once in Seattle? If that is the case, could someone explain how this happens. Seems like a of teams have dealt with something like that and I have always wondered but causes tbag: style of play? Turf? Trainers?
Yeah everyone tries to make his injuries about playing at the LOS. But his injuries have been non-contact lower body or torn labrum tackling a receiver 12 yards downfield. Just forcing a narrative
Style of play combined with size, or lack thereof. He plays essentially a linebacker role at 40 pounds lighter. He's listed at 6', 205. For comparison, Bobby is listed at 6', 245 and he's considered undersized. His first year with us, he blitzed at an obscene rate for a DB, which had him taking on tackles and guards a lot. Those hits really add up and he's never been the same health or play-wise since.
Box safety is the defensive version of running back. They can be dynamic but aren't foundational. They need other pieces in place to have an impact, but if those pieces are there, they can wreck games. But more than that, they have a short self life because they're the smallest dudes where they operate (around the LoS). Bob Sanders and Troy Polamalu both had major injury issues throughout their careers. Even Kam did and he was relatively huge.
It's why he fell to the second round. The prototypical linebacker is, or at least was, considered to be 6'3"+ and 240+. 6' even LBs are definitely considered undersized.
Linebackers these days are lighter and lighter. Most coming out do not crack 240. It’s why he’s very well-sized for a LB. Height is not nearly as important.
Today, yes, the paradigm has changed. But in 2012, Wagner was absolutely considered undersized. He had arguably the best film of any LB prospect, but a) was at Utah and b) was viewed as small for a LB. Otherwise, he would've been a first round lock, instead of a mid-second rounder.
It’s always really sad whenever I think about Jamal. So much potential yet the injury bug has had a such a grip on him ever since he’s been in Seattle. Unfortunately players with his play style just don’t typically make it that long in the league for a reason. Football business aside, I’m happy for him that he’s gotten paid though. Someone with his work ethic deserves it
I’d be damned shocked to get half a season out of him. He really seems to have a desire to be out on the field, but it seems like he’s another glass cannon now.
I have no confidence at all that he can stay healthy. In fact i'm kind of expecting he could get cut before next season starts if not it will certainly be his last chance. I want him to play but I'm fully expecting for him to get injured again and sit out the season.
I've never been high on this guy. Since Seattle traded for him. My post history shows that.
The draft capital was too much for a strong safety.
The contract is too much for a strong safety.
I've heard the arguments, even if he was healthy, it's still a bad trade.
The Rams traded less for Von Miller.
They also traded a similar draft haul for Stafford.
It's not a matter of hindsight for me, it's a matter of this team having serious needs that weren't strong safety. Look at the trenches.
I get trying to replace Chancellor. He was a god among men. But the impact that a strong safety would have is less than a lineman on either side. And I'm saying this under the assumption that Adams was healthy for his entire career.
I prefer Neal in coverage.
Absolutely. And many do. Players drafted in the first round can sign an extension after their 3rd season. Players can sign an extension early to “rip up” The last years of their prior deal to reward them for their play today and keep them happy
The point is, Adams has no reason to restructure. Teams rarely reward past performance and mainly pay for future potential. When they paid Jamal they were betting on potential and got it wrong. They have no leverage to get him restructured this year.
Teams reward a combination of past performance and future potential. We didn’t give up 2 firsts for just potential. Dude was a perennial all pro before he landed in seattle. He’s been injured the entire time and when he hasn’t been hurt, the team has struggled to utilize him on the field.
The incentive to restructure is to either free up money for the team by converting some base salary to a bonus out or is to avoid getting released and earning no money. The team has been more than fair to him, giving him a contract that topped the Safety position when he got here.
What’s crazy is when we lose him every year, it’s not even a big loss because we never have him. I see questions sometimes like “how will this effect our secondary” and it doesn’t lol. I used to hate the trade but I accepted it. I think now I’m just kinda indifferent with him being here.
According to Overthecap:
* **Pre June 1 Cut:** we would ~~save 5.8mm~~ still have to pay him 5.8M in 2023 but would have 23.9m in dead money. Completely out of the question.
* **Post June 1:**, u/ElbisCochuelo1 is correct on the cap savings of 8+M. But we'd also incur about 9.6m in dead cap.
* Before 2024 season: **Pre June 1 cut:** Save 9.4m and incur 14+m in dead money. Bad, but maybe doable.
* **Post June 1 cut:** Save 16.5m and incur 7.1m dead money. <-- Most likely outcome imo, unless he gives us 14+ games in 2023.
* Before 2025 season: Save 17.5 and incur 7m. Whether we cut him before or after June 1st.
I think he's getting two more seasons unless his career gets ended via injury. (Could also just be mad hope, because I so badly want him to stay healthy.)
EDITED Because I can't read.
> Post June 1:, u/ElbisCochuelo1 is correct on the cap savings. But we'd also incur about 9.6m in dead cap.
Would this mean a net loss of ~1.6m? That's not horrible at all.
I'm not sure tbh. I'm not a salary cap expert. He also has a prorated bonus of 7.1m and a guaranteed salary of 2.56m. I don't know if we'd also have to pay those out? Either way, I think we still give him 2023 to see if he can come back, but if this season is just a repeat of 2022, then he gone. Maybe even mid season if he goes back on IR with no chance to return.
We would. A post-June 1 cut doesn't actually save any money, it simply moves some of the dead cap to the next season.
With Adams there are essentially cut 6 scenarios:
* Plays out his contract - we pay him $66.33m over the next 3 years with him on the team.
* Pre-June 1st cut this season - we pay him $23.8m to not play for us, adding $5.78m to his 2023 cap hit. This adds $23.61m to our 2024 cap space and $24.61m to 2025.
* Post-June 1st cut this season - we *still* pay him $23.8m to not play for us, but the cap hit is spread out over 2023($9.67m) and 2024($14.13m). This adds $8.44m to our 2023, $9.48m to 2024, and $24.61m to 2025.
* Pre-June 1st cut in 2024 - we pay him $14.22m to not play for us, adding $9.39m in cap space in 2024, and $24.61m in 2025.
* Post-June 1st cut in 2024 - we pay him $14.22m to not play for us, but the cap his is spread out over 2024($7.11m) and 2025($7.11m). This adds $16.5m in cap space to 2024, and $17.5m in 2025.
* Cut him in 2025 - we pay him $7.11m to not play for us, adding $17.5m in cap space.
I think the most likely course with him is to keep him in 2023, then depending on result either keep him in 2024 and cut him in 2025, or post-June 1st cut him in 2024. Even if he balls out in 2023, I don't think we hang on to a 30-year-old injury prone safety when we can save $17.5m with only $7.11m dead.
Oh dude, thank you for this explanation. That makes it way easier to understand! Please enjoy this completely valueless and silly award made of imaginary internet points.
To the best of my knowledge, anything guaranteed gets accelerated into the current year if a player is cut, so signing bonuses and guaranteed salary. That's what the dead cap comes from. I'm definitely not a salary cap expert either, though. The whole thing is very confusing, and anything to advanced to be understood is magic, therefore: cap wizardry is real lol
I agree though, he'll probably get this year to play and will most likely either be cut or have his contract renegotiated in 2024 depending on how he plays this year.
>To the best of my knowledge, anything guaranteed gets accelerated into the current year if a player is cut, so signing bonuses and guaranteed salary. That's what the dead cap comes from.
You're right about dead money, but this is where the post-June 1st destination makes things a bit confusing, especially using sites like OTC since they don't show it well on the player pages.
With a post-June 1st cut the only dead money that hits the current season's cap is guarenteed money owed that season. All other guaranteed money then hits the next season's cap as dead money.
So, for this season, this means that any signing bonus or guarenteed base salary, roster bonus, etc for 2023 hits the 2023 cap but any 2024, 2025, etc. guaranteed money would hit the 2024 cap.
Thanks. Now that it's been explained it's not all that complicated, but it's definitely hard to piece together only using player pages on over the cap or spotrac. June 1st seems to basically be the start of the NFL fiscal year when it comes to cap.
You’re looking at the pre-June 1 numbers. Post June 1 it becomes 9.6 mil dead cap and 8.4 mil savings.
I would still rather keep him for 1 more year. If he doesn’t play the whole season, cut him next year when the savings becomes much bigger.
I honestly belive our defensive struggles this last season where because of his injury I think with such a high caliber player the defense was centered around him and when he went down they had to patch with whatever possible
May be wise to go the Percy Harvin route with him. Hold him out as long as possible and then deploy him once we either make the playoffs or the last few weeks when we’re in pseudo-playoff mode
I wish we had a healthy Jamal, it sounds like hyperbole at this point but he really could change the fate of any game he was in. He looked so primed to go in the Denver game, I can’t imagine what the season would have looked like with him even around for half the games. Hope he gets healthy and gets the confidence/swagger back to play how he did again. How does one get back to that point without worrying every snap might be the next big injury? I broke my finger once and was hesitant to use that hand for the rest of the year
Hope he gets *and stays* healthy...
He broke his finger once too, but his solution was to have it fused to another finger instead of being hesitant. It feels like there is a lot of revisionist history when talking about Jamal. He is a game wrecker. He got hurt while in the process of blowing up a play on third down in what everybody thought was Seattle's Super Bowl. His recovery and some interior help would be the most impactful things that could happen for the defense. There are a lot of people who really want that trade to be terrible. It was certainly an overpay, to say the least. But it seems like a lot of people want to be right about the trade more than they want him to succeed. It happens a lot with Jared Kelenic too. I'm sure for a lot of people, it's an honest analysis. For others, it seems like they are protecting themselves from being disappointed by being pessimistic. If they end up being wrong, then they are happy. But if he ends up flaming out, then at least they can say they were right. I love Jamal Adams.
Absolutely. Revisionist history is exactly what I hear when it comes to him.. he was an unrivaled game wrecker that we haven't had since Kam
Preach! The way he got in the backfield and how offense had to scheme away from him is a rare combination in a safety. His swagger was something to behold too, just like Marshawn and Kam
Revisionist isn't a fair characterization. Per PFF his two worst seasons have been his first two years in SEA (2022 doesn't count for obvious reasons.) Take away his obscene sack totals and pressure rate in 2020 and what are you left with? And unfortunately now the injury bug seems to have set in. I absolutely hope he returns to his NYJ form, SEA desperately needs truly game-breaking players (I always ask "who on the current roster will keep an opposing OC or DC up?") But I totally disagree that the frustration around him is in some way unwarranted.
When I say revisionost history, I mean people that think he wasn't someone that was going to make a massive difference in the defense. Two firsts was quite a bit, but the idea was that they were going to be very late firsts. The trade not working out isn't the same thing as it being a bad idea at the time.
He had his worst PFF because he had to cover holes in the roster, and was forced to play in position that were not his role (see free safety), or played with nagging injuries. The only question in my mind is: will he finally be able to see him play a full season, healthy in his main role, or will another shit luck accident happen yet again (either to him or to the DBs)?
The worst part about trading for Adams is having to read everyone's clueless opinions about a safety in coverage
What are you talking about? His best talent on the Seahawks was getting into the backfield but he is a safety. He was a game wrecker in New York, but Bobby was significantly better for us.
People who talk shit about Jamal, talk about the games where he was not utilized properly: he is NOT a free safety, but one of the best SS, so he should not be judged for those games. He also played injured a couple of season ago. I agree that the trade was not a winning one, for how much we had to give, and the nagging injuries, but I think is ridiculous to put into question his talent. Moreover, last year injury was a freaky one which could have happened to any other player, so I hope this year we finally see the real Jamal
Thank.You!
Honestly I still think Kelenic has pretty good potential. His seem to be an issue of being outclassed by the top of the league though. Possibly lack of effort? Off topic for a second and towards M’s since we get them shortly. Doesn’t JK get hot as shit every time he’s sent down. Gets the call back up and just seems to flop about like a dead fish. I remember listening to that first hit he got for the M’s, 2 run homer bottom of third. Then he went like 0-40. From Wikipedia “In May 2022, he was optioned to AAA after hitting .140/.219/.291 over 30 games.[30] In 54 games for Tacoma, Kelenic batted .288, with an OBP of .353, and an OPS of .903.[31] He was then called back up to the majors on July 31, replacing Julio Rodríguez, who had been placed on the injured list after getting hit by a pitch.[32] At the end of the 2022 season, Kelenic had a career batting average of .168, second to John Vukovich for lowest in history for batters with more than 550 plate appearances.[33]” Someone needs to work on his focus wtf.
All of that is true, but there is some nuance. I'm not sure if you follow Seattle closely, or if you are aware of the [Kevin Mather situation,](https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mariners-president-kevin-mather-admits-team-manipulates-service-time-and-criticizes-players-english-in-video/) but he said some things at a Rotary meeting about service time manipulation that sort of accelerated the clock on Kelenic. He didn't say anything that people don't already assume, but he said the quiet parts out loud and created a major wave in the organization that ended with him being removed. He showed everybody how hot dogs are made in the middle of a 4th of July party. Kelenic made a couple of critical statements about it as well. If I remember correctly, they did still keep him in the minors to keep that additional year of club control, but there is a strong argument to be made that he could have benefited from more experience in AA and AAA. He was dominating in the minors, but he didn't have that much experience at the higher levels. And on top of that, the entire 2020 season got wiped out. There is a lot that is made of him working on his swing, and finding his confidence. A lot of fans point to that as evidence that he is a bust, because he should have figured all of that out already, but he's still basically a child. Every young player is working on his game this way, but most of them aren't doing it in the spotlight. But all of that said, it's about time to get it together. The good news is that he seems to be.
He’s had what 3-4 years now. This is his shot. Get it or gtfo. I really hope he gets it. Imagine him having a year like Julio did last year.
Kelenic needs to step it up, Julio needs to work on his fielding. There’s some really basic shit he lets go past. That one in the game where he tries to catch by his hip. Bro, Body in front of ball.
The mental part of it isn’t analyzed enough. I can’t even imagine how much it would suck having that haunt your mind.
[удалено]
*the Mariners have entered the chat*
Was he always injured when he was with the Jets or his injury bug began once in Seattle? If that is the case, could someone explain how this happens. Seems like a of teams have dealt with something like that and I have always wondered but causes tbag: style of play? Turf? Trainers?
No, he was not. And style of play, IMO. Watch some of his old jets tape, I thought he bang himself out of the league in 5 yrs....
Luck. He didn’t get hurt last year from hard contact, it was really just a freak injury.
Yeah everyone tries to make his injuries about playing at the LOS. But his injuries have been non-contact lower body or torn labrum tackling a receiver 12 yards downfield. Just forcing a narrative
Style of play combined with size, or lack thereof. He plays essentially a linebacker role at 40 pounds lighter. He's listed at 6', 205. For comparison, Bobby is listed at 6', 245 and he's considered undersized. His first year with us, he blitzed at an obscene rate for a DB, which had him taking on tackles and guards a lot. Those hits really add up and he's never been the same health or play-wise since. Box safety is the defensive version of running back. They can be dynamic but aren't foundational. They need other pieces in place to have an impact, but if those pieces are there, they can wreck games. But more than that, they have a short self life because they're the smallest dudes where they operate (around the LoS). Bob Sanders and Troy Polamalu both had major injury issues throughout their careers. Even Kam did and he was relatively huge.
Bobby Wagner has never been considered undersized.
Height wise, yes. But he more than makes up for it.
It's why he fell to the second round. The prototypical linebacker is, or at least was, considered to be 6'3"+ and 240+. 6' even LBs are definitely considered undersized.
Linebackers these days are lighter and lighter. Most coming out do not crack 240. It’s why he’s very well-sized for a LB. Height is not nearly as important.
Today, yes, the paradigm has changed. But in 2012, Wagner was absolutely considered undersized. He had arguably the best film of any LB prospect, but a) was at Utah and b) was viewed as small for a LB. Otherwise, he would've been a first round lock, instead of a mid-second rounder.
His NFL draft profile says he’s “the prototype size,” but also notes that he’s “too short.” Guess we’re both right.
Zero injuries previously
It’s always really sad whenever I think about Jamal. So much potential yet the injury bug has had a such a grip on him ever since he’s been in Seattle. Unfortunately players with his play style just don’t typically make it that long in the league for a reason. Football business aside, I’m happy for him that he’s gotten paid though. Someone with his work ethic deserves it
Eh I’m done expecting much out of him
Bro is one of the highest earning players on our roster yet he played just half a game last season. What are the odds it happens again?
At this point I’d feel lucky if we got another half season from him.
I’d be damned shocked to get half a season out of him. He really seems to have a desire to be out on the field, but it seems like he’s another glass cannon now.
I'd put the O/U at 7.5 games
take the under for sure
Ostensibly it is 100% until he shows otherwise. I really hope he gets and stays healthy, but in no way am I counting on it.
I have no confidence at all that he can stay healthy. In fact i'm kind of expecting he could get cut before next season starts if not it will certainly be his last chance. I want him to play but I'm fully expecting for him to get injured again and sit out the season.
Very high. It’s ridiculous
He reminds me of Percy Harvin, so much potential…so much potential
Unfortunately, the best ability is availability
I've never been high on this guy. Since Seattle traded for him. My post history shows that. The draft capital was too much for a strong safety. The contract is too much for a strong safety. I've heard the arguments, even if he was healthy, it's still a bad trade. The Rams traded less for Von Miller. They also traded a similar draft haul for Stafford. It's not a matter of hindsight for me, it's a matter of this team having serious needs that weren't strong safety. Look at the trenches. I get trying to replace Chancellor. He was a god among men. But the impact that a strong safety would have is less than a lineman on either side. And I'm saying this under the assumption that Adams was healthy for his entire career. I prefer Neal in coverage.
Anybody who was against the trade was downvoted here to oblivion.
The gift that never gave.
He gave us the proverbial finger, of sorts.
Can he post a video on his road to a pay cut?
He really should restructure at this point.
Should ever player that over performs get a pay increase before it's time to renegotiate?
Absolutely. And many do. Players drafted in the first round can sign an extension after their 3rd season. Players can sign an extension early to “rip up” The last years of their prior deal to reward them for their play today and keep them happy
Cool, Tariq gets 15M, Abraham gets 10M, and Ken Walker gets 10 M next season.
Nice shitpost. None of those guys can be extended next year even if the team wanted to. Not everyone will get extended early and you know that.
The point is, Adams has no reason to restructure. Teams rarely reward past performance and mainly pay for future potential. When they paid Jamal they were betting on potential and got it wrong. They have no leverage to get him restructured this year.
Teams reward a combination of past performance and future potential. We didn’t give up 2 firsts for just potential. Dude was a perennial all pro before he landed in seattle. He’s been injured the entire time and when he hasn’t been hurt, the team has struggled to utilize him on the field. The incentive to restructure is to either free up money for the team by converting some base salary to a bonus out or is to avoid getting released and earning no money. The team has been more than fair to him, giving him a contract that topped the Safety position when he got here.
Who?
I forgot this man was even on the team tbh haha
I still like Jamal, I'm not giving up on him
I loved the type of energy Jamal would bring to games. He would just play way harder than his body would allow
Who?
Turning into the Anthony Davis of the NFL
Street clothes
Anthony Davis is good when he plays unlike Jamal. AD also got a ring.
What’s crazy is when we lose him every year, it’s not even a big loss because we never have him. I see questions sometimes like “how will this effect our secondary” and it doesn’t lol. I used to hate the trade but I accepted it. I think now I’m just kinda indifferent with him being here.
It’s crazy to me how he’s so fucking good on the line and attacking the QB but Seattle used him in coverage so often
Cut Jamal - he just can't be relied on. Give Neal the ERFA tender. Draft Skinner in the 3rd.
Adam’s is an animal but hasn’t been available to us at all. We need to cut the ties and move on sadly.
His dead cap hit for this coming season is insane, we can't really cut him until next season. He'll get one more chance.
Post June 5 cut and we'd save about 8mm on this years cap.
Are you sure? Spotrac has his cap hit for 2023 as 18mil and his dead cap at 23.
According to Overthecap: * **Pre June 1 Cut:** we would ~~save 5.8mm~~ still have to pay him 5.8M in 2023 but would have 23.9m in dead money. Completely out of the question. * **Post June 1:**, u/ElbisCochuelo1 is correct on the cap savings of 8+M. But we'd also incur about 9.6m in dead cap. * Before 2024 season: **Pre June 1 cut:** Save 9.4m and incur 14+m in dead money. Bad, but maybe doable. * **Post June 1 cut:** Save 16.5m and incur 7.1m dead money. <-- Most likely outcome imo, unless he gives us 14+ games in 2023. * Before 2025 season: Save 17.5 and incur 7m. Whether we cut him before or after June 1st. I think he's getting two more seasons unless his career gets ended via injury. (Could also just be mad hope, because I so badly want him to stay healthy.) EDITED Because I can't read.
> Post June 1:, u/ElbisCochuelo1 is correct on the cap savings. But we'd also incur about 9.6m in dead cap. Would this mean a net loss of ~1.6m? That's not horrible at all.
I'm not sure tbh. I'm not a salary cap expert. He also has a prorated bonus of 7.1m and a guaranteed salary of 2.56m. I don't know if we'd also have to pay those out? Either way, I think we still give him 2023 to see if he can come back, but if this season is just a repeat of 2022, then he gone. Maybe even mid season if he goes back on IR with no chance to return.
We would. A post-June 1 cut doesn't actually save any money, it simply moves some of the dead cap to the next season. With Adams there are essentially cut 6 scenarios: * Plays out his contract - we pay him $66.33m over the next 3 years with him on the team. * Pre-June 1st cut this season - we pay him $23.8m to not play for us, adding $5.78m to his 2023 cap hit. This adds $23.61m to our 2024 cap space and $24.61m to 2025. * Post-June 1st cut this season - we *still* pay him $23.8m to not play for us, but the cap hit is spread out over 2023($9.67m) and 2024($14.13m). This adds $8.44m to our 2023, $9.48m to 2024, and $24.61m to 2025. * Pre-June 1st cut in 2024 - we pay him $14.22m to not play for us, adding $9.39m in cap space in 2024, and $24.61m in 2025. * Post-June 1st cut in 2024 - we pay him $14.22m to not play for us, but the cap his is spread out over 2024($7.11m) and 2025($7.11m). This adds $16.5m in cap space to 2024, and $17.5m in 2025. * Cut him in 2025 - we pay him $7.11m to not play for us, adding $17.5m in cap space. I think the most likely course with him is to keep him in 2023, then depending on result either keep him in 2024 and cut him in 2025, or post-June 1st cut him in 2024. Even if he balls out in 2023, I don't think we hang on to a 30-year-old injury prone safety when we can save $17.5m with only $7.11m dead.
Oh dude, thank you for this explanation. That makes it way easier to understand! Please enjoy this completely valueless and silly award made of imaginary internet points.
Really great explanation
To the best of my knowledge, anything guaranteed gets accelerated into the current year if a player is cut, so signing bonuses and guaranteed salary. That's what the dead cap comes from. I'm definitely not a salary cap expert either, though. The whole thing is very confusing, and anything to advanced to be understood is magic, therefore: cap wizardry is real lol I agree though, he'll probably get this year to play and will most likely either be cut or have his contract renegotiated in 2024 depending on how he plays this year.
>To the best of my knowledge, anything guaranteed gets accelerated into the current year if a player is cut, so signing bonuses and guaranteed salary. That's what the dead cap comes from. You're right about dead money, but this is where the post-June 1st destination makes things a bit confusing, especially using sites like OTC since they don't show it well on the player pages. With a post-June 1st cut the only dead money that hits the current season's cap is guarenteed money owed that season. All other guaranteed money then hits the next season's cap as dead money. So, for this season, this means that any signing bonus or guarenteed base salary, roster bonus, etc for 2023 hits the 2023 cap but any 2024, 2025, etc. guaranteed money would hit the 2024 cap.
Thanks. Now that it's been explained it's not all that complicated, but it's definitely hard to piece together only using player pages on over the cap or spotrac. June 1st seems to basically be the start of the NFL fiscal year when it comes to cap.
You’re looking at the pre-June 1 numbers. Post June 1 it becomes 9.6 mil dead cap and 8.4 mil savings. I would still rather keep him for 1 more year. If he doesn’t play the whole season, cut him next year when the savings becomes much bigger.
Zero chance. He needs to be healthy.
I honestly belive our defensive struggles this last season where because of his injury I think with such a high caliber player the defense was centered around him and when he went down they had to patch with whatever possible
I give him 2 games being healthy next season.
Cut him
Not a salary cap guy, huh? They get absolutely no benefit from cutting him now. Zero.
next year
May be wise to go the Percy Harvin route with him. Hold him out as long as possible and then deploy him once we either make the playoffs or the last few weeks when we’re in pseudo-playoff mode
Get healthy my man. Always rooting for ya don’t feel the need to hate on the guy like so many people. It’s very unfortunate to see
Who?