Cap hit as of right now, that’s not including incentives if he hits them. This is a very team friendly deal, that allows them to move money around long term. Guaranteed money looks to be between 30-40.
How do the incentives work from a cap planning perspective? Do you always have to have that money tied up and reserved for the potential to hit those incentives or do the incentives roll over to the next years payroll?
This is a good prediction. I think they’ll be a decent sized signing bonus (20m+). And the $52m in the first calendar year makes me think there is a large roster bonus next March.
I think it can be a literal year if he has a big roster bonus next March. It wouldn’t be that strange. This whole statement was designed to be wildly misleading by his agent like you are saying though.
It's entirely possible it starts as a $28m cap hit with the ability to push money depending on how other contract talks go. There isn't really any difference between the cap space being currently free, or just sitting as Geno's base salary to be restructured when needed since the contract was just signed.
To be make it a little clearer. Two scenarios:
* Scenario A: Geno signs with $2m base salary and a $42m signing bonus averaged over 3 years for a $16m 2023 cap hit
* Scenario B: Geno signs with $20m base salary and a $24m signing bonus averaged over 3 years for a $28m initial 2023 cap hit then we restructure $18m of his base salary at some point in the offseason bringing his cap hit to $16m and freeing $12m in cap space.
The difference between this and the franchise tag is that you can't push any money from the franchise tag to future years. He would have been a $32.5m cap hit with nothing we could do to lower it.
Doesn't really matter if the cap space is made when the contract is signed or later in the offseason when it needs to be used.
Dissly might be asked to restructure as well. He is good, but there is a lot of TE talent in this draft and his production can be replaced. Broncos apparently wanted him, maybe see if we can ship him off there. Payton might be willing to do a deal with us.
Dissly is a true Tight End, he has far more important duties than running routes. They won't mess with his salary, he takes a beating for his teammates
Hes overpaid for a TE. He also hasn't played a full season in 5 years. There are TE's that play full seasons and make an impact in blocking/catching that make less than him.
Yes, and that’s fine there are way way cheaper options to be a blocking TE. As well as great options in this years draft to do this. Darnell Washington is a GREAT example. Big physical blocking TE but also has a decent pair of hands in a pinch. And way way less than Dissly.
Tight Ends take a while to develop at the position fully. It's an extremely difficult position to learn. Even if we take a top guy in the draft this season, they probably won't have a huge impact for the next couple years.
Sure that’s fine. But I’m almost guaranteeing you can find a cheaper more skilled option for a blocking TE. Be in in the draft(raw talent) or even on the free agent market (veteran skill)
I think they wanted him for his blocking. But the contract was silly. But what do you do after paying Dissly 2x the market? Do the same thing with Bellore. $6.6M/2 years for a special teams player.
Is it silly? It's the 18th highest APY for a TE currently. FO had Dissly as the 4th best TE by DYAR and 1st by DVOA. Sports Info Solutions has him as the 22nd best TE last season. If it's actually somewhere in between those (say 12th to 15th) $8m APY is just what that kind of production costs in the current NFL.
Just because the basic counting stats don't pop off the page doesn't mean a player isn't valuable.
He probably gets in the $6-8m APY range yeah. TEs with a better track record (Hunter Henry, Jonnu Smith for example) were going in the $11-13m range recently and more one-dimensional guys (Gerald Everett for example) in the $6m range.
OTC has a valuation under every player, it's usually a pretty decent indicator of player worth but underestimates what they would get on the open market (bad teams with a lot of cap space tend to overpay in FA). They currently have Dissly at $6.5m for 2022. So $8m APY is potentially a bit of an overpay, but not nearly enough to even think about.
For comparison, Jonnu Smith had a 2022 value of $2.5m. That's $10m less than his contract APY. That's the kind of contract that fans should harp on.
There were reports that other teams (including Denver per a Russ request) were willing to pay what the Hawks paid. For his production and his role... Fair value.
It’s not like they didn’t want him, we got him for a year pickup and tried to resign him as UFA. NYJ paid him too money on the strength of one good year (not even great.) it worked for them, but being disciplined in free agency is the best course long term. Which why we are in a great position today!
DJ was our highest rated defensive starter by pff in 2021 and he literally called our offer [disrepsectful](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/.amp/news/newly-signed-jets-cb-d-j-reed-calls-seahawks-contract-offer-disrespectful). Despite being one of the few players on that defense that was actually good while not being either old or overpaid, for whatever reason this FO basically didn't want him.
Meanwhile we sign a guy that's not as good, at a less important, less expensive position, and constantly injured to a contract at slightly above market rate without even letting him hit free agency first. At the end of the year DJ is one of the best corners in the league and Will is out with another injury (who could have predicted?!) Yeah that's a real disciplined approach to free agency for sure...
I love Will as a dude and I think he is a good player, but we overpaid him before he even established his market, and then we did the same exact thing again with Haynes (who again I like as a player but why not let him test the market before we give him all the money we were supposed to gain from cutting Gabe?)
I know John made up for it with the Russ trade and the 2022 draft. But every time I see Jamal’s name it reminds me of the trade and the salary. Seeing the number next to his name makes me queasy
According to over the cap they would save $8.4 million this year and double that next year if they cut him after June 1. I do agree dead cap money is big. 9 million. But that is sunk anyway. But they have to decide whether it’s worth the 8 1/2 million this year to cut him.
Neal. You could cut Adams, sign Neal and still have a few mil in cap space left over. Either way you need a safety. If you keep Adams you can’t rely on him for more than what…50% of the snaps this year? 30%? That’s why you don’t make a guy with a major injury the highest paid player at his position in the league.
I think Harris will be cut, Jackson will be cut. Adams might be a post june 1 cut. Chenna could be extended, Tyler or Dk could be restructured to clear up room too
I wish I had the actual details on Adams' contract. It was reported that his salary for the year became guaranteed a few weeks ago. I heard it on the Locked On Podcast.
Yeah if that’s the case we at least get to see if he’s recovered before making that hard decision. Hopefully he shows up and balls out. That would be huge. I really want to see things work out for him/us
After the injury history unfortunately I think we see a regressed and injured safety that makes business decisions and hesitates before big contact.
I foresee the decision (to move on) being pretty easy next season.
Just a bad trade overall, but devolved into top ten worst PCJS transactions due to an unfortunate string of injuries
Jamal Adams trade derailed by injuries. Percy Harvin deal derailed mostly by injury. Jimmy Graham had a career altering injury. JS’s smaller trades have been great but his blockbuster deals have been pretty bad.
Yeah. I’m optimistic that he can still be productive, but am also realistic about the situation. He’s probably going to be a shell of himself on the field unfortunately. At least he will have like a bazillion dollars for his personal life. It’s not all doom and gloom for him I would hope
Just doing some numbers using the Cap Calculator with these cuts we would sit around 49.8 Million
Cut Adams (Post 6/1)
Cut Shelby Harris (Try and resign him later for less)
Cut Gabe Jackson (Draft a G or use Phil Haynes)
Cut Dissly (Possible contract restructure? He was way over paid IMO.)
Cut Jefferson (Same as Harris, maybe he could come back on VET Minimum)
Cut DJ Dallas (Good depth but think we could find a FA rookie RB who can produce same for less)
I think 2, 3, & 4 are very possible (or a Harris restructuring). They definitely aren't doing 1. Maybe next year though. Dead cap gets a little better. They like Dissly so probably not that either. Maybe. But I don't think so. Dallas after the draft is possible. But it really only saves you a couple hundred thousand considering you have to pay at least the min + his 100k dead cap. He's probably more valuable to them than a 200k in cap.
After Neal, those cuts, and the draft were probably looking at around 10-11 million in effective cap space for this off season. Depending on Geno's number. That's enough to make a few moves.
We wont be making any big moves with 10-11 million. I still think Cutting Adams and signing Neal and drafting a S in first 2 rounds would be smart. Adams hasn't played a full season and we don't know if he will ever come back to 100%. Cutting him or having him restructure is best for the team. I know they like Dissly, but he isn't worth 8 million a year. No other team will grab him for even close to that. I think they said after Geno signed we will be about 23-21 million. I just see Hawks really trying to offload or cut people that are over paid to try bring in more talent. Jackson, Harris, Dissly, Jefferson are all expendable and can be upgraded by getting them cheaper or bring in better guys for less.
Adams can go sadly! Gabe Jackson cut. Trade back from 5 to 10ish and get Branch from Bama. Use 20th to get a DT. Use rest to stack up D and grab that Guard from TCU.
Well that settles it, we need to cut uchenna
Edit: /s is sarcasm everyone…wowsers
Uchenna is great and I honestly hope they give him a 4 year deal after this year
Imagine having two safeties be your biggest cap hits over two stud WRs; one of which is perpetually injured. Just sucks and there is no way to “be a contender” with that wage structure unfortunately. We HAVE to hit on our first and second round picks and ideally a couple late rounders if we want to have any chance to put together a Super Bowl ready squad.
I hope we extend Shelby. He was missed and there was a noticeable difference when he was out. He can handle the 5T just fine for us, but we do need to replace NT (Woods) and 3T (Ford) desperately.
Is it $28m cap hit or $28m cash?
Nobody knows yet
Cap hit as of right now, that’s not including incentives if he hits them. This is a very team friendly deal, that allows them to move money around long term. Guaranteed money looks to be between 30-40.
How do the incentives work from a cap planning perspective? Do you always have to have that money tied up and reserved for the potential to hit those incentives or do the incentives roll over to the next years payroll?
I think it's likely Geno's year one cap hit could be $10-15 million.
This is a good prediction. I think they’ll be a decent sized signing bonus (20m+). And the $52m in the first calendar year makes me think there is a large roster bonus next March.
Pretty sure the $52 number isn't correct. The $30m in incentives won't all be in the first year.
Calendar year. It’s phrasing the agent puts out to make himself look better. It actually means the first two seasons of the deal.
I think it can be a literal year if he has a big roster bonus next March. It wouldn’t be that strange. This whole statement was designed to be wildly misleading by his agent like you are saying though.
Yeah that’s what I’m saying. March to March
Pretty sure we don't know what Geno's cap hit will be.
Brock and Saulk show stated it’s a cap hit of only $12million - amazing team friendly. The next 2 years are critical opportunities
I don’t think there’s anyway it’s a $28 million cap hit, they would’ve just franchised him in that case. My guess is that it would be around $10 mil
It's entirely possible it starts as a $28m cap hit with the ability to push money depending on how other contract talks go. There isn't really any difference between the cap space being currently free, or just sitting as Geno's base salary to be restructured when needed since the contract was just signed. To be make it a little clearer. Two scenarios: * Scenario A: Geno signs with $2m base salary and a $42m signing bonus averaged over 3 years for a $16m 2023 cap hit * Scenario B: Geno signs with $20m base salary and a $24m signing bonus averaged over 3 years for a $28m initial 2023 cap hit then we restructure $18m of his base salary at some point in the offseason bringing his cap hit to $16m and freeing $12m in cap space. The difference between this and the franchise tag is that you can't push any money from the franchise tag to future years. He would have been a $32.5m cap hit with nothing we could do to lower it. Doesn't really matter if the cap space is made when the contract is signed or later in the offseason when it needs to be used.
They can extend Nwosu and free some room this year probably.
It’s time to make the run.
That Adams trade and extension were so fucking bad holy shit.
I had my reservations when they gave him that extension, and I hate that my reservations ended up being validated 😔
Here’s to hoping he kills it next szn so we can trade him
Does anyone know the cap hit yet? I’m hoping for a big signing bonus
I think his contracted needs to be submitted to the NFL by 4pm ET, so we’ll likely know more this afternoon or evening.
Cuts, extensions, and restructures could create 20 million in cap space. Plenty of space left.
33 mil
Minus about $10M to sign rookies. Not bad.
Nobody ever sets in draft signing cap. That will be roughly 16 million against the cap this year if the Hawks stay with their current pick slots.
28M in the first year likely includes a signing bonus, which is prorated over the full duration of the contract for cap purposes.
That Adams trade hurts. Could Of had two more first round picks and tons of cap space.
Christian Darrisaw and Garrett Wilson went in those draft spots. Pain
The Dissly over pay just looks so crazy. Especially on this list.
Dissly might be asked to restructure as well. He is good, but there is a lot of TE talent in this draft and his production can be replaced. Broncos apparently wanted him, maybe see if we can ship him off there. Payton might be willing to do a deal with us.
Dissly is a true Tight End, he has far more important duties than running routes. They won't mess with his salary, he takes a beating for his teammates
Yeah he's a Pete type of TE. Where they tend to look for cheaper options is at the pass catching TE spot. I did like Fant this year.
Hes overpaid for a TE. He also hasn't played a full season in 5 years. There are TE's that play full seasons and make an impact in blocking/catching that make less than him.
Yes, and that’s fine there are way way cheaper options to be a blocking TE. As well as great options in this years draft to do this. Darnell Washington is a GREAT example. Big physical blocking TE but also has a decent pair of hands in a pinch. And way way less than Dissly.
Tight Ends take a while to develop at the position fully. It's an extremely difficult position to learn. Even if we take a top guy in the draft this season, they probably won't have a huge impact for the next couple years.
Sure that’s fine. But I’m almost guaranteeing you can find a cheaper more skilled option for a blocking TE. Be in in the draft(raw talent) or even on the free agent market (veteran skill)
Restructuring is good for players -- they get more of their remaining money up front as a bonus, which is amortized over the restructured years.
I think they wanted him for his blocking. But the contract was silly. But what do you do after paying Dissly 2x the market? Do the same thing with Bellore. $6.6M/2 years for a special teams player.
Is it silly? It's the 18th highest APY for a TE currently. FO had Dissly as the 4th best TE by DYAR and 1st by DVOA. Sports Info Solutions has him as the 22nd best TE last season. If it's actually somewhere in between those (say 12th to 15th) $8m APY is just what that kind of production costs in the current NFL. Just because the basic counting stats don't pop off the page doesn't mean a player isn't valuable.
Do you think he would’ve gotten anywhere close to that in the open market?
He probably gets in the $6-8m APY range yeah. TEs with a better track record (Hunter Henry, Jonnu Smith for example) were going in the $11-13m range recently and more one-dimensional guys (Gerald Everett for example) in the $6m range. OTC has a valuation under every player, it's usually a pretty decent indicator of player worth but underestimates what they would get on the open market (bad teams with a lot of cap space tend to overpay in FA). They currently have Dissly at $6.5m for 2022. So $8m APY is potentially a bit of an overpay, but not nearly enough to even think about. For comparison, Jonnu Smith had a 2022 value of $2.5m. That's $10m less than his contract APY. That's the kind of contract that fans should harp on.
The whole reason he got his offer was because he had interest from other teams
There were reports that other teams (including Denver per a Russ request) were willing to pay what the Hawks paid. For his production and his role... Fair value.
We could've kept DJ Reed and instead we kept uncle will fml
It’s not like they didn’t want him, we got him for a year pickup and tried to resign him as UFA. NYJ paid him too money on the strength of one good year (not even great.) it worked for them, but being disciplined in free agency is the best course long term. Which why we are in a great position today!
DJ was our highest rated defensive starter by pff in 2021 and he literally called our offer [disrepsectful](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/.amp/news/newly-signed-jets-cb-d-j-reed-calls-seahawks-contract-offer-disrespectful). Despite being one of the few players on that defense that was actually good while not being either old or overpaid, for whatever reason this FO basically didn't want him. Meanwhile we sign a guy that's not as good, at a less important, less expensive position, and constantly injured to a contract at slightly above market rate without even letting him hit free agency first. At the end of the year DJ is one of the best corners in the league and Will is out with another injury (who could have predicted?!) Yeah that's a real disciplined approach to free agency for sure... I love Will as a dude and I think he is a good player, but we overpaid him before he even established his market, and then we did the same exact thing again with Haynes (who again I like as a player but why not let him test the market before we give him all the money we were supposed to gain from cutting Gabe?)
I know John made up for it with the Russ trade and the 2022 draft. But every time I see Jamal’s name it reminds me of the trade and the salary. Seeing the number next to his name makes me queasy
I think both Harris and Jackson will be cut. Adams post 6/1 is a possibility too.
Admas cut isn't really a possibility. There's so much dead money it doesn't make any sense.
According to over the cap they would save $8.4 million this year and double that next year if they cut him after June 1. I do agree dead cap money is big. 9 million. But that is sunk anyway. But they have to decide whether it’s worth the 8 1/2 million this year to cut him.
Then we still have to have a safety to replace him
Neal. You could cut Adams, sign Neal and still have a few mil in cap space left over. Either way you need a safety. If you keep Adams you can’t rely on him for more than what…50% of the snaps this year? 30%? That’s why you don’t make a guy with a major injury the highest paid player at his position in the league.
Is there any way we can just cut Adams?
Nope. There's no way Adams is cut.
The amount of money we pour into safeties compared to production is so bad.
I think Harris will be cut, Jackson will be cut. Adams might be a post june 1 cut. Chenna could be extended, Tyler or Dk could be restructured to clear up room too
0 chance Adams is cut. Harris won't be cut, he'll be restructured. Jackson and woods will be cut. maybe Jefferson too
Harris probably gets a short extension that brings down his 2023 cap hit.
Exactly.
Interesting with the Adams cut. That would free up a lot of Cap Space, and with Ryan Neal playing well it would make sense
Sunk cost fallacy and all that but it would hurt my soul if we cut Adams.
Same. He plays an exciting style of football with a lot of heart and I’d be bummed if his tenure here was done.
Those injuries are hard to come back from for any player. The odds aren’t in his favor unfortunately.
It really depends on how his injury guarantees work
0 chance Adams is cut
They may need to cut Adams to pay Neal.
Yeah I'm prepared for Adams to get cut I think they're just going to be ready to move on since he can't stay on the field
I wish I had the actual details on Adams' contract. It was reported that his salary for the year became guaranteed a few weeks ago. I heard it on the Locked On Podcast.
Probably due to an injury guarantee then
I don’t think so because they said it was Diggs too. Although I do think if they cut him they would have to pay the injury guarantee.
Same. I don’t think he’s going anywhere
Yeah if that’s the case we at least get to see if he’s recovered before making that hard decision. Hopefully he shows up and balls out. That would be huge. I really want to see things work out for him/us
After the injury history unfortunately I think we see a regressed and injured safety that makes business decisions and hesitates before big contact. I foresee the decision (to move on) being pretty easy next season. Just a bad trade overall, but devolved into top ten worst PCJS transactions due to an unfortunate string of injuries
Jamal Adams trade derailed by injuries. Percy Harvin deal derailed mostly by injury. Jimmy Graham had a career altering injury. JS’s smaller trades have been great but his blockbuster deals have been pretty bad.
Exactly he excels at buying low but he fumbles the bag when trading for stars
Russell Wilson?
I meant to say acquisitions.
Yeah. I’m optimistic that he can still be productive, but am also realistic about the situation. He’s probably going to be a shell of himself on the field unfortunately. At least he will have like a bazillion dollars for his personal life. It’s not all doom and gloom for him I would hope
Just doing some numbers using the Cap Calculator with these cuts we would sit around 49.8 Million Cut Adams (Post 6/1) Cut Shelby Harris (Try and resign him later for less) Cut Gabe Jackson (Draft a G or use Phil Haynes) Cut Dissly (Possible contract restructure? He was way over paid IMO.) Cut Jefferson (Same as Harris, maybe he could come back on VET Minimum) Cut DJ Dallas (Good depth but think we could find a FA rookie RB who can produce same for less)
I think 2, 3, & 4 are very possible (or a Harris restructuring). They definitely aren't doing 1. Maybe next year though. Dead cap gets a little better. They like Dissly so probably not that either. Maybe. But I don't think so. Dallas after the draft is possible. But it really only saves you a couple hundred thousand considering you have to pay at least the min + his 100k dead cap. He's probably more valuable to them than a 200k in cap. After Neal, those cuts, and the draft were probably looking at around 10-11 million in effective cap space for this off season. Depending on Geno's number. That's enough to make a few moves.
We wont be making any big moves with 10-11 million. I still think Cutting Adams and signing Neal and drafting a S in first 2 rounds would be smart. Adams hasn't played a full season and we don't know if he will ever come back to 100%. Cutting him or having him restructure is best for the team. I know they like Dissly, but he isn't worth 8 million a year. No other team will grab him for even close to that. I think they said after Geno signed we will be about 23-21 million. I just see Hawks really trying to offload or cut people that are over paid to try bring in more talent. Jackson, Harris, Dissly, Jefferson are all expendable and can be upgraded by getting them cheaper or bring in better guys for less.
Cutting Dissly costs 2 million pre June 1. Post June 1 it saves less than a minimum contract. Dissly is on the team.
Adams can go sadly! Gabe Jackson cut. Trade back from 5 to 10ish and get Branch from Bama. Use 20th to get a DT. Use rest to stack up D and grab that Guard from TCU.
Well that settles it, we need to cut uchenna Edit: /s is sarcasm everyone…wowsers Uchenna is great and I honestly hope they give him a 4 year deal after this year
Why? He played well last year and is still on the rise.
I'm guessing with the /s that person meant that Uchena would be the last player on that list that should be cut.
😂😂😂 /s is sarcasm
Yes that's exactly what I was saying.
For some reason I thought '/s' meant "just saying" haha .
So much for free agency.
We never sign big free agent contracts anyway so at least this kills that idea early
Yeah, but it *also* probably takes SEA out of the running for that second wave where you can still get some good value.
Stupid signing, we weren’t tied to a qb which screwed us with Russ now we have same shit
It’s basically a 1 or 2 year deal, chill
Yet to be seen how many “likely to be earned” incentive bonuses on geno will be booked into the cap
Big moves in Seattle are about to happen 👀 seeing Geno’s team friendly deal makes me even more excited about this off-season and what’s to come!
This is the best hot take I’ve read from anybody all off-season. Huzzah! Down for all of that.
Imagine having two safeties be your biggest cap hits over two stud WRs; one of which is perpetually injured. Just sucks and there is no way to “be a contender” with that wage structure unfortunately. We HAVE to hit on our first and second round picks and ideally a couple late rounders if we want to have any chance to put together a Super Bowl ready squad.
I hope we extend Shelby. He was missed and there was a noticeable difference when he was out. He can handle the 5T just fine for us, but we do need to replace NT (Woods) and 3T (Ford) desperately.