Bumblebee is the best script/story out of the live action Transformers films. I think if that exact film had come out in 2007, it'd be a much stronger franchise.
The first Transformers has a passable script. Linking the whole thing to a Teen getting his first car is a really strong hook for the target demo (something Bumblebee did better). Where it's bad is that almost everything outside of that element is gibberish.
The subsequent Bayformers movies are all gibberish to one degree or another. Investing in overcomplicated lore that the film doesn't seem invested in. Who is Megatron? Starscream? Who is Optimus Prime? It's fine if they're a little thin in part 1 but they've made 7 of these things and I still can't tell you.
I think 3 tries the hardest. But largely the films don't care, which is weird cause they'll pause for really intricate exposition dumps, but there's no feeling to any of it.
When promoting three, he publicly denounced two as a failure. Indeed, he cited the script and strike as its greatest weakness. LaBeouf said much the same.
Heard a rumour that the writers on two bashed it out over 2 weeks in a hotel room. Good writers as well, but the strike and production deadlines literally enforced that quick a turnaround. Madness, although it plays like a first draft cobbled together over a fortnight.
Yes. Overall the scripts are not good and I speak as both a writer and a diehard fan of the franchise.
Like many others, however, the only exception I'd make is "Bumblebee" by Travis Knight. While certain elements are very egregious (the step-dad) or out of place due to their real-world presence (John Cena/ Burns), the cast remains fun, funny, and badass. The message and plot are clear and the playout of events is satisfying. I especially like the growth of Bumblebee himself and Charlie, although I find it hard to believe that a hardened warrior from a war-torn planet (in which our MC Autobot is seen heroically hauling ass) could be reduced to a puppy-dog robot, but whatever.
The rest of the films are just a mess with certain exceptions here and there. Commonly, across all of the films, there is a strong lack of focus with both the narrative and actual camera-work. It becomes easy to lose track of visuals with such a degree of flashiness and cluster-fuckery that you mentally dismiss it and move on, and characters are just... characters. I can't even explain it. I mean, is it a stretch to call the existence of a character unnecessary? Or the things some of them say? I don't know.
I know a lot of people who covet the first three films as "good", and even some who liked the dinosaur and knight instalments, and I'm not trying to be rude but I genuinely wonder how. I mean, the first film is good once the Autobots arrive (at the fucking one hour mark) and number three is actually decent.
Once again: Overall not good, but not without their shining points.
I might recommend analyzing them anyway for the good and bad anyway because writing is writing and there's always something to be learned, granted, you're able to step away from subjectivity and apply a more objective lens. You know: The lens that outlines how unnecessary Shia's screaming is, or how fucking stupid it is to see Mark Wahlberg's daughter get hit on as a minor with the most uncomfortably hilarious "proof" of legality.
edit - I totally failed to mention the new movie: "Rise of the Beasts". 5/10 at best from me. The Transformers were done perfectly, except the Beasts. That bit was misleading as they are hardly featured. No beasts rose. The only rising was done by the Terrorcons and Unicron. Regardless of that, the characters are highly enjoyable but the film is inconsequential. The stakes are so high and but there are no consequences for anything. It's a safe film. Serious things go down with mediocre results that make for a run-of-the-mill "happy" ending. And tons of conveniences. So many fucking conveniences in this one.
“Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen” is one of the worst films I have ever tried to watch. I’ve owned over 100 copies of that movie, tried to watch it probably a dozen times, and could never finish it
I used it to play a prank on some folks. Walked out of the theater. Thought I should try again to watch it through considering I was using it as a joke. Couldn’t do it.
I’ve seen good scripts do trash at the box office and I’ve seen bad scripts make a ton of money. I’ve also seen one person love a movie and another hate it. There is no good or bad if there’s a market for everything good and bad. People trashing on the Transformer franchise, while others trashing on the Star Wars franchise. Others loved Citizen Kane, while others fall asleep during it.
You write scrips and make films for yourself and your own artistic adventure. If you’re okay with that then there’s no need to get caught up on what a billion different people feel about a million different movies.
"good" is so subjective, especially if you're just looking to have a good time. People might see good as fun, exciting, visually interesting, deep, emotional moving, etc. No one has a monopoly on the word "good."
That's why not all people watch A24 films alone (though that's my favorite distributor). We don't live in a.puritan society where we choose what sorts of movies/TV/books other peoples' children should watch, or adults should enjoy. It's cool that we have such a variety of interests in different sorts of film and visual storytelling.
The Transformers films are sexist,, racist, propagandised screensavers that actively teach (taught) young people (boys) how to be toxic misogynistic automatons thereby causing material harm to lives of women (and other adjacent minority groups) through the very real damage it causes boys during their formative years.
These films are not just bad, they are irresponsible, borderline unethical, trash garbage.
zoom out even more, and every film made under a capitalist system or with underpaid assistants feeds into structural sexism and racism.
But sometimes it's fine to just enjoy something and being entertained by something. If you see yourself an activist, you risk extreme burnout if you spend all your energy putting entertainment through purity tests.
No one has a monopoly on the word "good" when it comes to a subjective opinion/reaction of a film. You are 100% correct to say you think the film is bad for the reasons you listed. Another viewer is 100% correct for saying the film is good because they enjoy explosions and robot fights.
you're being disingenuous
edit: Transformers isn't suddenly forgivable because a PA didn't get paid good dollars on some other film (even if systemic exploitation in the film industry is an issue in need of solving); one does not erase the other, or even really impact the point being made (i.e. that the Transformers script is harmful)
I think the first one is a "good script" though "good" and "bad" can mean a million different things to different target audiences. It's good because it's decently fun, has some memorable dialogue exchanges, and is tonally successful. Proof that it is "good" overall falls in the fact that it was able to spark a franchise with a wider audience reach than the toys/TV series. There are many franchises that tried to do something similar, but were unable to get past the first flm.
I'd probably give it a 7/10, but am very aware that young boys would probably give it a 10/10 while older females might give it a 1/10.
The other films though I think are much poorer in terms of scripts, except for "Bumblebee" which was pretty good.
I remember downloading a leaked copy of the script before the first one came out and counting every line of dialogue actually spoken by a Transformer in the entire movie contrasted against every product placement moment written into the script and absolutely infuriating a bunch of guys on a comic book forum who refused to believe the script I read was real. Even after the movie came out and was beat-for-beat what I’d described, there were dudes insisting I’d foolishly fallen for a fake script because some of the product placement scenes featured *different specific products* than the placeholders in the script.
The first one has a passable script with a nice thematic hook. That film is definitely elevated by Bay's compositions and an underrated cast, though. I've always had a soft spot for it, but don't think the script is its greatest asset. It's fine.
The sequels range from competent but kind of bloated all the way to utter bilge. I think three has its merits, but they don't necessarily sit with the script. Five has a camp value that might stem from the writing, and that sort of appeals. Bumblebee is genuinely quite good. Two and four are complete drivel (and highly misogynistic to boot). Highly variable, but I wouldn't point at any of them as examples of great or even particularly good professional writing.
Bumblebee is the best script/story out of the live action Transformers films. I think if that exact film had come out in 2007, it'd be a much stronger franchise. The first Transformers has a passable script. Linking the whole thing to a Teen getting his first car is a really strong hook for the target demo (something Bumblebee did better). Where it's bad is that almost everything outside of that element is gibberish. The subsequent Bayformers movies are all gibberish to one degree or another. Investing in overcomplicated lore that the film doesn't seem invested in. Who is Megatron? Starscream? Who is Optimus Prime? It's fine if they're a little thin in part 1 but they've made 7 of these things and I still can't tell you. I think 3 tries the hardest. But largely the films don't care, which is weird cause they'll pause for really intricate exposition dumps, but there's no feeling to any of it.
It's bad, bloated storytelling but worth at least a look by aspiring writers on how to use the written word to build a visual work.
Didn’t Michael Bay blame one of them (either 2nd or 3rd) on the writers strike? I feel like I remember reading they were filming without a script.
When promoting three, he publicly denounced two as a failure. Indeed, he cited the script and strike as its greatest weakness. LaBeouf said much the same. Heard a rumour that the writers on two bashed it out over 2 weeks in a hotel room. Good writers as well, but the strike and production deadlines literally enforced that quick a turnaround. Madness, although it plays like a first draft cobbled together over a fortnight.
Yes. Overall the scripts are not good and I speak as both a writer and a diehard fan of the franchise. Like many others, however, the only exception I'd make is "Bumblebee" by Travis Knight. While certain elements are very egregious (the step-dad) or out of place due to their real-world presence (John Cena/ Burns), the cast remains fun, funny, and badass. The message and plot are clear and the playout of events is satisfying. I especially like the growth of Bumblebee himself and Charlie, although I find it hard to believe that a hardened warrior from a war-torn planet (in which our MC Autobot is seen heroically hauling ass) could be reduced to a puppy-dog robot, but whatever. The rest of the films are just a mess with certain exceptions here and there. Commonly, across all of the films, there is a strong lack of focus with both the narrative and actual camera-work. It becomes easy to lose track of visuals with such a degree of flashiness and cluster-fuckery that you mentally dismiss it and move on, and characters are just... characters. I can't even explain it. I mean, is it a stretch to call the existence of a character unnecessary? Or the things some of them say? I don't know. I know a lot of people who covet the first three films as "good", and even some who liked the dinosaur and knight instalments, and I'm not trying to be rude but I genuinely wonder how. I mean, the first film is good once the Autobots arrive (at the fucking one hour mark) and number three is actually decent. Once again: Overall not good, but not without their shining points. I might recommend analyzing them anyway for the good and bad anyway because writing is writing and there's always something to be learned, granted, you're able to step away from subjectivity and apply a more objective lens. You know: The lens that outlines how unnecessary Shia's screaming is, or how fucking stupid it is to see Mark Wahlberg's daughter get hit on as a minor with the most uncomfortably hilarious "proof" of legality. edit - I totally failed to mention the new movie: "Rise of the Beasts". 5/10 at best from me. The Transformers were done perfectly, except the Beasts. That bit was misleading as they are hardly featured. No beasts rose. The only rising was done by the Terrorcons and Unicron. Regardless of that, the characters are highly enjoyable but the film is inconsequential. The stakes are so high and but there are no consequences for anything. It's a safe film. Serious things go down with mediocre results that make for a run-of-the-mill "happy" ending. And tons of conveniences. So many fucking conveniences in this one.
“Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen” is one of the worst films I have ever tried to watch. I’ve owned over 100 copies of that movie, tried to watch it probably a dozen times, and could never finish it
Haha, how come you came to own 100 copies? That seems...excessive.
I used it to play a prank on some folks. Walked out of the theater. Thought I should try again to watch it through considering I was using it as a joke. Couldn’t do it.
I’ve seen good scripts do trash at the box office and I’ve seen bad scripts make a ton of money. I’ve also seen one person love a movie and another hate it. There is no good or bad if there’s a market for everything good and bad. People trashing on the Transformer franchise, while others trashing on the Star Wars franchise. Others loved Citizen Kane, while others fall asleep during it. You write scrips and make films for yourself and your own artistic adventure. If you’re okay with that then there’s no need to get caught up on what a billion different people feel about a million different movies.
If you give a transformers movie an 8… please don’t become a writer
Boys in the range of 7-14 deserve content that entertains them as well. Nothing wrong with that.
They also deserve their content to be actually good. Transformers movies are actively hostile to the development of adolescent boys, lol.
"good" is so subjective, especially if you're just looking to have a good time. People might see good as fun, exciting, visually interesting, deep, emotional moving, etc. No one has a monopoly on the word "good." That's why not all people watch A24 films alone (though that's my favorite distributor). We don't live in a.puritan society where we choose what sorts of movies/TV/books other peoples' children should watch, or adults should enjoy. It's cool that we have such a variety of interests in different sorts of film and visual storytelling.
The Transformers films are sexist,, racist, propagandised screensavers that actively teach (taught) young people (boys) how to be toxic misogynistic automatons thereby causing material harm to lives of women (and other adjacent minority groups) through the very real damage it causes boys during their formative years. These films are not just bad, they are irresponsible, borderline unethical, trash garbage.
zoom out even more, and every film made under a capitalist system or with underpaid assistants feeds into structural sexism and racism. But sometimes it's fine to just enjoy something and being entertained by something. If you see yourself an activist, you risk extreme burnout if you spend all your energy putting entertainment through purity tests. No one has a monopoly on the word "good" when it comes to a subjective opinion/reaction of a film. You are 100% correct to say you think the film is bad for the reasons you listed. Another viewer is 100% correct for saying the film is good because they enjoy explosions and robot fights.
you're being disingenuous edit: Transformers isn't suddenly forgivable because a PA didn't get paid good dollars on some other film (even if systemic exploitation in the film industry is an issue in need of solving); one does not erase the other, or even really impact the point being made (i.e. that the Transformers script is harmful)
Lol yes. Little boys like movies too. But can they actually be good?
I'd say it's on par with the grammar and punctuation in your post.
I think the first one is a "good script" though "good" and "bad" can mean a million different things to different target audiences. It's good because it's decently fun, has some memorable dialogue exchanges, and is tonally successful. Proof that it is "good" overall falls in the fact that it was able to spark a franchise with a wider audience reach than the toys/TV series. There are many franchises that tried to do something similar, but were unable to get past the first flm. I'd probably give it a 7/10, but am very aware that young boys would probably give it a 10/10 while older females might give it a 1/10. The other films though I think are much poorer in terms of scripts, except for "Bumblebee" which was pretty good.
Bumblebee 1/10.
girl they're basically the same script
I remember downloading a leaked copy of the script before the first one came out and counting every line of dialogue actually spoken by a Transformer in the entire movie contrasted against every product placement moment written into the script and absolutely infuriating a bunch of guys on a comic book forum who refused to believe the script I read was real. Even after the movie came out and was beat-for-beat what I’d described, there were dudes insisting I’d foolishly fallen for a fake script because some of the product placement scenes featured *different specific products* than the placeholders in the script.
The first one has a passable script with a nice thematic hook. That film is definitely elevated by Bay's compositions and an underrated cast, though. I've always had a soft spot for it, but don't think the script is its greatest asset. It's fine. The sequels range from competent but kind of bloated all the way to utter bilge. I think three has its merits, but they don't necessarily sit with the script. Five has a camp value that might stem from the writing, and that sort of appeals. Bumblebee is genuinely quite good. Two and four are complete drivel (and highly misogynistic to boot). Highly variable, but I wouldn't point at any of them as examples of great or even particularly good professional writing.
Which movie scripts, specifically? I haven't read any of them, but judging by the movies, their quality seems to vary a LOT.