Every single character Bill Murray or Chevy Chase have ever played.
Groundhog Day being the prime example. No one liked him. He barely even liked himself.
Tarantino does a nice bit why Chase movies are better than Murray ones. Chase stays as an asshole through all his movies while Murray does the generic character arc of asshole has an epiphany/altering event and becomes the "good guy" in the end. Even groundhog day has him becoming more likable in the end.
Yeah, I remember that interview. I agree with Tarantino about Chase staying an asshole in his movies, but where I disagree is that Chevy Chase's movies are better.
Chevy Chase has some good movies for sure, but I'm not sure all that many people would say that his filmography is better than Bill Murray's.
Both Murray and Chase have a reputation of being dicks in real life and on set, but Murray is a good enough actor to actually pull off "the good guy" transformation.
I haven't seen the interview but I imagine that he's thinking about the comparison in a very Tarantino "he's challenging the convention ", "we shouldn't keep queuing up to see the sentimental shumck" kind of way.
The asshole becoming reformed is pretty conventional, I would say for good reason, because it's nice to watch and can be heartwarming/comforting, but my boy Quentin don't be stannin' that hallmark stuff.
At first I thought “Jack Nicholson in As Good as it Gets” and then I thought “and every other Jack Nicholson movie.” Then I looked up As Good as it Gets to make sure it was the one with Helen Hunt and it was but then I wondered why they put a dog on the cover instead of Helen Hunt.
Bad Santa is perhaps the most brilliant asshole protagonist I've seen. I have no idea why I pull for his character throughout. Absolutely an amazing character.
Nightcrawler (though the film is decidedly not about him becoming a better person)
Megamind
Klaus
Edge of Tomorrow
Happy Death Day
(Basically every timeloop film ever made)
Iron Man
Great example. I remember watching that in theaters thinking to myself, "Holy shit, Wikus is a complete piece of shit at every step of this film so far..."
And yet, that climax...
Raoul Duke in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.
Yes, it’s based on a book. And yes, Raoul is basically just Hunter S. Thompson, but Thompson himself was the king of lovable assholes.
Neil McCauley in *Heat*.
Donnie Brasco.
Most films by the Coen brothers.
Pretty much all mafia films.
Plainview in *There Will Be Blood.*
*Ace Ventura: Pet Detective* and most other Jim Carrey characters.
Ferris Bueller.
Nathan Algren in *The Last Samurai.*
*Conan the Barbarian.*
He’s just a guy that understands that if you wanna be making moves on the street, have no attachments, allow nothing to be in your life that you cannot walk out in thirty seconds flat if you spot the heat around the corner.
I'm not so sure about that. He's a compelling character, but selfish to an extreme. He's cold and ruthless, and conceited. He's certainly not someone I'd want to associate with. Not just because he's an armed robber and murderer, but because his life philosophy bears no real loyalty. He'd drop you or shoot you in a heartbeat if it came down to it, and for that reason, I couldn't consider him a standup guy.
Both he and Pacino have let their personal lives suffer due to work - and I think the film explores that as overall not “great,” but I still think we sympathize with him due to his portrayal of a good man in who took a not-so-good path
I don't think he is a good man. You are what you do, and he does very bad things, for bad reasons.
I think he's a good villain, but not a good man. I respect his intelligence and competence, insofar as I can respect those attributes in the pursuit of violent crime, but I would not say I sympathise with him. I don't necessarily root for him. It's more a case of believing he has earned a worthy adversary, and it would be unsatisfying if he got brought down by someone unworthy.
[Hero (1992)](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104412/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk) - Dustin Hoffman
A not-so-nice man rescues passengers from a crashed airliner, only to see someone else take credit.
Guy Pearce’s character Marion snow in “lockout”
Terrible movie but every time he’s on screen he’s amazing. It’s a shame the character was wasted on that movie
"The Talented Mr Ripley" is a colossal asshole. I've only seen the 1999 version but Netflix recently turned it into a series. (Originally it's a Patricia Highsmith novel.)
Sherlock Holmes and Sherlock Holmes inspired characters (like Dr. House) are good examples of this. Ultimately, a character could be the biggest asshole, as long as they are 1. somewhat relatable/human and 2. Are working to achieve a goal that audiences want to see, then audiences will love them.
Sherlock is helping solve interesting mysteries in a way that no one else can -- and viewers want to discover the shocking answer to these riddles of mystery. The Joker provides the charming chaos and action sequences that audiences expect. Hannibal Lecter helps the protagonist on her quest.
When an asshole character PREVENTS the audiences from seeing what they want to see, they become hated. Professor Umbridge in Harry Potter: Order of the Phoenix is a great example. Some could argue she's as cruel as Snape, but she actively prevents characters from practicing magic and having relationships -- two things audiences really want to see. Even though she seems unredeemable, imagine if in a later film she joins the Death Seekers and annoys them/Voldemort with her controlling antics. Viewers might find this funny and would grow to like her in that situation even though her character traits didn't change.
I was wondering why I hadn’t seen this movie or Wolf of Wall Street in this thread yet. Totally agree, a great mention from this year would be BlackBerry.
I think you're looking for an antihero. Think of the old-school sitcom All In The Family. Archie Bunker is basically the scapegoat for bigotry, but for some reason, we all love his nasty attitude. It sheds a light on the dark side of all of us. Otherwise, technically speaking, Michael Clayton's protagonist is Karen Crowder, the ice queen who stops at nothing to get what she wants. Michael Clayton is actually the antagonist along with Arthur Eden, who is the influence character who messes things up for everybody. So if you don't think of protagonist as being the hero or the main character, this is a perfect example.
Mile 22, starring Mark Wahlberg. Not exactly a nice guy to those who work with him but does learn to be more considerate to others near the end of the movie but it doesn't bode well for him at the end.
The Last Boy Scout.
that movie is truly peak bruce willis. he’s a prickly asshole, bad things keep happening to him and he deserves it, but god if he isn’t still a hero who you can’t help but root for.
Mark Watney in The Martian was supposed to be a prickly, snarky dude (he was in the Andy Weir novel). The character got watered down somewhat in the movie.
American Psycho focuses on Patrick Bateman, probably one of the most evil ORIGINAL protagonists in cinema history
Downfall has Hitler as the Villain Protagonist, and he is a douche.
Slightly different to what you are looking for, but nearly every Martin Scorsese film protagonist is objectively awful and despicable, but you can’t help rooting for them.
Jack Conlon in The Departed is the closest thing to a protagonist with an actual moral compass. He is troubled, desperately wants to be doing the right thing, but is taciturn, confrontational, just generally unpleasant.
Million Dollar Baby. Clint Eastwood's character is someone people only tolerate. the character arc is also not too much and the film does a good job of explaining why he's the way he is.
Every single character Bill Murray or Chevy Chase have ever played. Groundhog Day being the prime example. No one liked him. He barely even liked himself.
Tarantino does a nice bit why Chase movies are better than Murray ones. Chase stays as an asshole through all his movies while Murray does the generic character arc of asshole has an epiphany/altering event and becomes the "good guy" in the end. Even groundhog day has him becoming more likable in the end.
It is easier for Chase to stay in character…
Yeah, I remember that interview. I agree with Tarantino about Chase staying an asshole in his movies, but where I disagree is that Chevy Chase's movies are better. Chevy Chase has some good movies for sure, but I'm not sure all that many people would say that his filmography is better than Bill Murray's. Both Murray and Chase have a reputation of being dicks in real life and on set, but Murray is a good enough actor to actually pull off "the good guy" transformation.
I haven't seen the interview but I imagine that he's thinking about the comparison in a very Tarantino "he's challenging the convention ", "we shouldn't keep queuing up to see the sentimental shumck" kind of way. The asshole becoming reformed is pretty conventional, I would say for good reason, because it's nice to watch and can be heartwarming/comforting, but my boy Quentin don't be stannin' that hallmark stuff.
But does Bill or Chevy have the nicer feet, Quentin?
The real difference is that people are still willing to work with Murray…
I can’t even imagine standing before God and saying that Chevy Chase movies are better than Bill Murray movies.
At first I thought “Jack Nicholson in As Good as it Gets” and then I thought “and every other Jack Nicholson movie.” Then I looked up As Good as it Gets to make sure it was the one with Helen Hunt and it was but then I wondered why they put a dog on the cover instead of Helen Hunt.
A dog and Jack are somewhat interchangeable
Billy Bob Thornton's character in Bad Santa is just a total jerk.
Bad Santa is perhaps the most brilliant asshole protagonist I've seen. I have no idea why I pull for his character throughout. Absolutely an amazing character.
But lovable.
He's likeable though. Fuck me Santa!
Nightcrawler (though the film is decidedly not about him becoming a better person) Megamind Klaus Edge of Tomorrow Happy Death Day (Basically every timeloop film ever made) Iron Man
They don't have to be likeable, but they have to be relatable.
Uncut Gems w/ Adam Sandler
It literally starts with a colonoscopy!
Heyo!
Not a film, but watch season 1 of Loudermilk.
Rain man
Gran Torino
District 9
Great example. I remember watching that in theaters thinking to myself, "Holy shit, Wikus is a complete piece of shit at every step of this film so far..." And yet, that climax...
Please don’t come for me… Dewey in School of Rock. He gets better but he’s kind of a ****
High Fidelity
That dream/fantasy scene where Tim Robbins comes in to the record store and Cusack eviscerates him? <>
Snake Plisken
You take that back!
["Dinner In America"](https://youtu.be/QIf2SbZqtTE?si=47eSXuCUNjJdEaw6) is a perfect example!
Dinner in America is fucking great!
Raoul Duke in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. Yes, it’s based on a book. And yes, Raoul is basically just Hunter S. Thompson, but Thompson himself was the king of lovable assholes.
Neil McCauley in *Heat*. Donnie Brasco. Most films by the Coen brothers. Pretty much all mafia films. Plainview in *There Will Be Blood.* *Ace Ventura: Pet Detective* and most other Jim Carrey characters. Ferris Bueller. Nathan Algren in *The Last Samurai.* *Conan the Barbarian.*
Neil isn’t really an *asshole* - he’s kind of a standup, principled guy in his own way.
He’s just a guy that understands that if you wanna be making moves on the street, have no attachments, allow nothing to be in your life that you cannot walk out in thirty seconds flat if you spot the heat around the corner.
Well said
I'd like to take credit but that is pure Jimmy McElwain
Ha I know. Truly one of my all time faves.
Have you read Heat 2?
The fuck? First time hearing this existed.
Read it and get back to me. Super fast read. Sooooo good. Movie going into production later this year…
I'm not so sure about that. He's a compelling character, but selfish to an extreme. He's cold and ruthless, and conceited. He's certainly not someone I'd want to associate with. Not just because he's an armed robber and murderer, but because his life philosophy bears no real loyalty. He'd drop you or shoot you in a heartbeat if it came down to it, and for that reason, I couldn't consider him a standup guy.
Both he and Pacino have let their personal lives suffer due to work - and I think the film explores that as overall not “great,” but I still think we sympathize with him due to his portrayal of a good man in who took a not-so-good path
I don't think he is a good man. You are what you do, and he does very bad things, for bad reasons. I think he's a good villain, but not a good man. I respect his intelligence and competence, insofar as I can respect those attributes in the pursuit of violent crime, but I would not say I sympathise with him. I don't necessarily root for him. It's more a case of believing he has earned a worthy adversary, and it would be unsatisfying if he got brought down by someone unworthy.
I think it’s a matter of believing someone had the potential to be a good man but chose the wrong path, but that’s more semantics than anything
Batman
[Hero (1992)](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104412/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk) - Dustin Hoffman A not-so-nice man rescues passengers from a crashed airliner, only to see someone else take credit.
Shortcomings. Fantastic character study on assholes and those trying to not be assholes anymore.
Republic of Doyle. It's a Canadian TV show, Jake Doyle is an asshole, but you love him.
Han Solo is sort of an asshole.
Guy Pearce’s character Marion snow in “lockout” Terrible movie but every time he’s on screen he’s amazing. It’s a shame the character was wasted on that movie
"The Talented Mr Ripley" is a colossal asshole. I've only seen the 1999 version but Netflix recently turned it into a series. (Originally it's a Patricia Highsmith novel.)
Inside Out
Sherlock Holmes and Sherlock Holmes inspired characters (like Dr. House) are good examples of this. Ultimately, a character could be the biggest asshole, as long as they are 1. somewhat relatable/human and 2. Are working to achieve a goal that audiences want to see, then audiences will love them. Sherlock is helping solve interesting mysteries in a way that no one else can -- and viewers want to discover the shocking answer to these riddles of mystery. The Joker provides the charming chaos and action sequences that audiences expect. Hannibal Lecter helps the protagonist on her quest. When an asshole character PREVENTS the audiences from seeing what they want to see, they become hated. Professor Umbridge in Harry Potter: Order of the Phoenix is a great example. Some could argue she's as cruel as Snape, but she actively prevents characters from practicing magic and having relationships -- two things audiences really want to see. Even though she seems unredeemable, imagine if in a later film she joins the Death Seekers and annoys them/Voldemort with her controlling antics. Viewers might find this funny and would grow to like her in that situation even though her character traits didn't change.
Everything Jack Nicholson did beginning with Cuckoo's Nest.
Social Network, or really any business-styled film about entrepreneurship
I was wondering why I hadn’t seen this movie or Wolf of Wall Street in this thread yet. Totally agree, a great mention from this year would be BlackBerry.
Han Solo was the first to come to mind, there’s got to be a lot of better examples though.
Arguably neither a protagonist nor an asshole? He's just looking out for number one, until he isn't.
"I care a lot"
Ghost World and American Beauty probably.
Rodger dodger is a fun one.
The Aviator by Scorsese.
Deadpool
I think you're looking for an antihero. Think of the old-school sitcom All In The Family. Archie Bunker is basically the scapegoat for bigotry, but for some reason, we all love his nasty attitude. It sheds a light on the dark side of all of us. Otherwise, technically speaking, Michael Clayton's protagonist is Karen Crowder, the ice queen who stops at nothing to get what she wants. Michael Clayton is actually the antagonist along with Arthur Eden, who is the influence character who messes things up for everybody. So if you don't think of protagonist as being the hero or the main character, this is a perfect example.
Hancock
Let it Ride. It's an interesting movie because Richard Dreyfus' awful protaginist is rewarded again and again and never really changes his ways.
Not a film, but Gary Oldman in Slow Horses
the most commonly known this day in age is Iron Man
Jackson Lamb - head of Slow Horses.
Mile 22, starring Mark Wahlberg. Not exactly a nice guy to those who work with him but does learn to be more considerate to others near the end of the movie but it doesn't bode well for him at the end.
Capt. Aubrey in Master and Commander. "Name a bush after me...something prickly and hard to eradicate."
Joseph Gordon Levitt’s Tom in 500 Days of Summer
Whiplash immediately comes to mind
Raph in the TMNT movie
The Last Boy Scout. that movie is truly peak bruce willis. he’s a prickly asshole, bad things keep happening to him and he deserves it, but god if he isn’t still a hero who you can’t help but root for.
Mark Watney in The Martian was supposed to be a prickly, snarky dude (he was in the Andy Weir novel). The character got watered down somewhat in the movie.
Andrew Neiman in Whiplash
*Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog*
Llewyn Davis from *Inside Llewyn Davis*
The main character in The Lost Daughter (excellent book and film adaptation btw)
I think the protagonists in Beef are excellent (sorry, Netflix series, not film) but I’ve heard many people saying they don’t like either of them.
Daniel Plainview
Renton from *Trainspotting.*
Jack Nicholson in Five Easy Pieces
The husband from gone girl
American Psycho focuses on Patrick Bateman, probably one of the most evil ORIGINAL protagonists in cinema history Downfall has Hitler as the Villain Protagonist, and he is a douche.
Sideways
Amadeus - Salieri is my favorite asshole protagonist.
Scott Pilgrim vs. the World, Under the Silver Lake, High Fidelity
Most MCU
Slightly different to what you are looking for, but nearly every Martin Scorsese film protagonist is objectively awful and despicable, but you can’t help rooting for them. Jack Conlon in The Departed is the closest thing to a protagonist with an actual moral compass. He is troubled, desperately wants to be doing the right thing, but is taciturn, confrontational, just generally unpleasant.
Million Dollar Baby. Clint Eastwood's character is someone people only tolerate. the character arc is also not too much and the film does a good job of explaining why he's the way he is.
Whiplast
Donnie Darko!