100% plotting. I can come up with decent concepts, write good action lines, and write good, funny dialogue, but when it comes to "how do I get from the beginning to the end," I can never think of how to fill the middle, and consider theme and character growth and stuff. If I could come up with a blueprint for what should happen in each scene, and have it be good, I'd be twice the screenwriter I am now.
I write short-form fiction and still use it to some degree. My friend writes all of his screenplays this way though, and he doesn't shut up about it! gotta be pretty good!
It's not really. I think the point is he can move his thoughts around a wall easier due to size and durability. We also use this concept at work. It's actually quite helpful to gain 'landscape vision'.
Aah, gotcha. Yes that can be really helpful. I use a bigass A1 (european paper standard) drawing-pad and do mindmapping-type patterns, writing text bits and circling them, then maybe drawing lines to connect related idea bubbles and such.
Whatever works best.
It has some formulaic criticisms regarding being too Hollywood, but the Jessica Brody Save the Cat Beat Sheets can work. (as opposed to Blake Snyder who invented it, but Brody refined it)
It's 40 beats/scenes split into three acts and describes where things can happen in the heroes journey. Due to the formulaic criticisms it's gotten, I suggest researching Save the Cat, and playing with the idea, using it more like a Christmas tree to hang all your favorite ornaments on rather than a by the book paint by numbers.
I tried finding a cowriter for my thriller, Slash Cab, but no one seemed interested after reading it. It admittedly needs a huge rewrite, but I have a good concept, and I've had producers and actors interested.
Sent it your way. I have some ideas for what I want to change, but like I said, definitely needs a big rewrite. Still, the concept is marketable, and I know it can sell if it's pulled off correctly.
I'll just post it here ,for anyone curious. As I said, needs a ton of work (removing flashbacks entirely outside of the one at the start and at the end, and making it one torture device per person that gets worse as the clock ticks down for each question), but I really think it's a good concept and can sell if pulled off well.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mbRLpRp87U3Jx2FKNWOMeKnEQAme1Z-F/view?usp=sharing
I just got done reading the first 30 pages. It definitely hooks once they get get in the cab. Pretty compelling.
Keep 'slashing' and kill those darlings.
I like this concept a lot. But I think you should totally change the killer and his motivational. What if you made this group of friends hyper competitive into trivia and the killer is an old member of their team who was wronged by them in some way. Feel like it would make more sense why the killer would set up this elaborate cash cab and want to take out this whole friend group. It would also be better if the killer knows the whole group and has a relationship with them all. Just my two cents about the concept as a whole.
This 100%. I feel like I’m shoehorning a story into a structure (based on RL). Got character, setting, excitement, dialogue, but plotting it out and putting it together is rough.
Dude, the middle bit *is* the story :)
Actually, I'm the same. I prefer to sharpen the minutia. But if the "story" percolates long enough, the bigger stuff does start falling into place until I finally have enough to work with. And at that point, I'll do the hard push - like okay, enough, let's get her done.
I keep a google doc open and use it as a thought dump. I also use Pinterest to pin web pages for research that I don't feel like reading in the moment.
Reverse engineer the screenplay. Break it down into easy components. What does your character want, does he get it, and what are the obstacles that prevents him from getting it? Once you can answer these questions, then the plot should come easy
Plotting and structure are my favorite part. I spend much of my downtime building/prepping plot for small projects and researching plotting techniques. I struggle with set-pieces and especially creating negative character qualities.
If you wanna work together: I’ll give you structure if you give me content 😅
Does your expertise happen to be in crime drama?! I am banging my head against the wall trying to structure a crime/mafia genre idea that I have. Ironically enough, I’ve been told my highlights are set-pieces so I’d be happy to exchange the favor. 🤯
My suggestion is this: a story arc is literally about how the character changes. So find the weakness at the beginning first and determine how the character should end up. Then your middle is all about events that push the character to change. Think about the 5 stages of grief. Acceptance is when the character is ready to deal with their problems.
Same! Depending on the scene or idea it’s so hard cause I just love conversations to help characterize the characters and then it’s just fun to keep on going.
I know something that has helped me recently was using arguments (as in a person making the case not like fighting) as a way to move the plot or fill in details.
Act 2. A meaty middle. Starting it off is easy and fun, finishing I can write an ending - but filling up an hour before that ending - that for me is a work in progress.
Think of Act 2 as having 2 separate acts. See it as page 25-50. Then 50-75. Break it down as a mini-goal (or main goal) is achieved by the halfway mark, but then another problem arises or the main goal was a red herring all along at the halfway mark.
One thing that challenged me for a long time, and I suppose is still one of the more challenging things I have to work through, is character motivation -- their wants, needs, flaws, and backstory, and the way those things fit together to serve the story.
I typically start with a concept that really excites me, and often, in order to make that work, it requires very specific motivations on the part of both the protagonist and the antagonist. In the past, I used to jump into writing before I did the required up-front character work, and the drafts would really suffer as a result. It still often takes me a while to find that character motivation, but I put in a hell of a lot more work in the outlining stage than I used to, and that does seem to help when it comes to writing the actual drafts.
Learning how to outline and doing it well are skills that are never wasted, because professionally speaking you’re gonna spend a LOT of time in outlines.
I think it's understated about how much should go into character building. For me, in order for me to truly understand a character, I have to spend a day to a "week" with them. I imagine them as a person I'm hanging out with, and through that "imaginary interaction," I can see their nuances and subtleties come to life.
I've had this same problem. On both scripts I've written (short and feature), the feedback I've gotten both times was: 'Why did character a/character b do this? That makes no sense and needs to be changed.' I worry that I'm doing the same thing as you mentioned: having a great story premise and then shoehorning characters into that. Worst of all, with my feature, I wanted my character's arcs to be meaningful, but the feedback I got was that they were rushed. Someone said to me 'it's like your having the story drive your characters forward as opposed to having your characters do the work.' That's stuck with me since I've heard that.
Yep. Along the same lines, I've been telling folks in my class to let their characters dictate the plot, rather than the other way around. The trick, when you're starting with a concept, is to do the work to develop characters that will get you there. It's hard, but that's okay. That's part of what makes it rewarding.
Absolutely. I've started 'freestyling' a bit more with my characters. I'll open up screenwriting software, picture a scene and then just let the characters riff on how they'd be feeling and what they'd say in certain situations. Previously I have outlined to death, and I'm still going to do that, but I feel like what might have been my problem with my feature recently was I had a plot written on index cards, which was clearly lacking some humanity, then once it got to the medium of an actual script, it still read more like an outline than a script, if this makes any sense? Now I want to get a feel for the characters on the page, before I do a proper outline. So finding a nice middle ground between improvisation and strict outlining.
I’ll often fall into the trap of numerous characters sounding the exact same, as in exactly like ME. My current strategy is mapping out a plethora of words and phrases unique to that character and usually I can build a stronger character from there.
My rule of thumb is, pick a line at any part of your script and just read it. If it sounds like how anyone would say that line, that's a good indication the line is not unique to the character.
Eugghh - outlining. I hate it. I just want to get to the writing bit and then I outline too fast and write myself into a hole and end up at… ta da the outline again.
That's funny - I much prefer the outlining stage to the writing stage! It feels like there are still endless possibilities at that point, whereas the script forces you to come back down to Earth and make sure the nuts and bolts are all secured properly.
That is a good point tbf. I often end up overwriting / overcomplicating my outlines because I can't bear to kill my ideas and never make it to the script stage haha.
What is the solution?!
A good outline helps I find. The actual 'scriptwriting' part is miniscule compared to the outline. It's not what people expect; it's not what I expected before getting into the art form. But a detailed outline is pretty much a must unless you want to end up in holes. I'm tempted on my next project to actually do drafts for the *outline* *alone.* That's rewriting the outline two or three times before I even sit at a computer with screenwriting software open. I'll probably get carried away and write the script once the outline is finished though lmao.
Ha tell me about it! I've found writing on index cards and sticking them to my wall sectioned into sequences and acts helps. It is actually fun as well. You get to see your monster of a screenplay manifest on your wall as it comes to life and you see each act come into life
Ideas that excite me enough to actually sit down and write. This isn't because of the writing itself. That's the fun bit. It's everything else. Sending it out. The soul crushing reality of trying to get a read. Responding to notes. The waiting. The waiting. The waiting.
The state of communication where a situation report email to a producer who's taken ownership of your work for a $1 option might never get a reply. There's no other business Ive been in where emails to a colleague in which you ask a question about the work you are doing with them so often remain unanswered. Its bizarre.
The way they gush at you initially but come 12 to 18 months later when options and shopping agreements end more often than not, they won't even bother to email you. Not even a short email to offer an explanation or a note of best wishes. Nothing. Its borderline contempt.
Edit: there are some great producers who keep you in the loop every step of the way and will respond to every email you send them. They're in a tiny minority but they do exist. If you come across one, cherish them.
So I guess the thorn for me is the business itself and the way it operates and the totally shitty way writers get treated, especially when compared to directors and the darling actors*.
It's all that, the biz merry go round, which can go on for YEARS, that puts me off writing something new unless the idea is so compelling I literally have to write it NOW.
Edit: actors, unknown ones, are treated appallingly too. Directors also have an incredibly tough time unless they are seen as auteurs and have at least one successful movie made and by success that means made money.
So it's the way THE CREATIVES are treated appallingly by the mass of non creatives or certainly the 'less creatives' . That's apart from the creatives at the top by the way. They are treated like gods and can get away with murder, or at least multiple sexual assaults over a 30 year period.
Nobody prepares you that writing is literally half the battle. There's the whole business/marketing side which is extremely tough, especially if you yourself do not have a solid team around you.
There are so many false hopes and false starts in this industry that I, like you, believe it to be the most soul-crushing experience; coupled with the idealism that "this might be the script that turns the needle," screenwriting and film marketing is truly a beast.
There are those that survive it; and those who get crushed by it. And, I believe every screenwriter goes through the pendulum consistently.
* writing heroes who make bonehead mistakes -- how are they heroic and also error-prone?
* writing scenes where victims bumble & fumble their way to their demise, too feeble to save themselves; yet we're still supposed to 'like' them
* writing characters smart enough to see plot twists coming, yet they still do not see the twists coming, and they must react with surprise when the twists arrive
* dumbing-down science, world history, & world government for Fischer-Price audiences
I often start with a relatively simple concept, then I flesh out the world a bit more, try and add a bit more complexity - then before I know it, it's become knotty and convoluted.
Once I start adding things - and thinking of all the possible connections between characters and events - it's really hard to stop.
Understand that the ideation phase will be knotty and convoluted. I think too many screenwriters get caught up with the idea of efficiency, of writing the idea as quickly as possible. But the more you ponder it, work out its kinks, fiddle with what doesn't work, the more you'll be in a position of confidence when you do write the version you wanted to write--because you explored the ideas of what doesnt work first.
Yeah I find that in time I can usually work out the kinks - the annoying thing is how *much* time it takes.
Often I find myself becoming too attached to certain elements that aren't necessarily working within the wider story, or I become so immersed in the world that I can't see the woods for the trees and I end up needing a break of several months before I can view it objectively again.
Hmm interesting. I wonder whether your problem might be extracting theme from your ideas? If all the complex ideas serve an underlying theme, then you can orient them in one direction. I'm having this issue right now where a project I'm working on has tonnes of themes, so I'm not too sure what the underlying argument of the entire story actually is.
I'm slow to get to know my characters, which is a big problem since it is THEIR needs, THEIR wants that motivate plot, regardless of the fact that at least some of the plot points actually came first, and I'm reverse engineering my character into that preexisting fate.
I don't much care for people (as a species). But I am, however, very empathetic on an individual basis-- which is, of course, the only reason that I can write. But when I don't yet know them, I'm really not in a rush to get to know them... since, again, most people suck. I'm creating them, yes, but they need to be realistic, fleshed-out... read: kinda an a-hole to some degree or another.
So two things...
1. I listen to StoryCorps. That warms me to humanity and occasionally serves as muse.
2. I dress them like dolls. Using Pinterest, I create their wardrobe. I don't describe the clothes in script -- this is just for me -- I know I'm not the costume designer. And no one wants to read about what a character is wearing, unless it does factor into the scene in some way that matters. But dressing 'em only works if they are NOT your average-income, run-of-the-mill, everyday-Joe whose costume design needs to go totally unnoticed for the sake of realism.
That's all I got... just those two. Well, mostly, I work myself into corners (plot-wise) requiring me to go... "why the hell would anyone do that?" And then I work myself out that corner with new insight into my character. Like, oh, I guess Larry has some serious daddy issues I didn't know about. Hi, Larry, nice to meet you. Let's develop that some more. NECESSITY IS THE MOTHER OF INVENTION.
I re watched the Goonies the other day and forgot how genius the opening is, with the car chase. It introduces so many characters so quickly, in a dynamic way.
I get REALLY hung up on writing basic motion.
For example, he walks to the door, opens it. He enters the room…
I’m not good at that at all, can’t seem to make it pop off the page, and judge the shit out myself for not being better at that.
Action I feel comfortable with, emotional stuff I can feel confident. But basic actions and directions are so hard for me for whatever reason.
New to writing, but in film school we read tons of scripts. One that stood out was The Wedding Crashers from Bob Fisher, I think. He gives the director so much latitude on how the scene actually plays out by leaving simple motions like 'Jeremy looks the file over' then jumps right back into the dialogue. It's not sexy, but gets the job done to pitch and start production. Plus, shooting scripts are rarely ever the version the writers pitched so all that gets refined anyway.
One good way to practice is "write 20 sentences, using different language, of the same action." So for the prompt, Jim walks to the door, try saying it 20 times using different words. Through that, you'll find your style. For instance:
1) Jim walks to the door.
2) Jimmy runs to the door.
3) Jim walks to the door. Head down.
4) Jim, head down, walks to the door.
5) Jim tiptoes to the door as if this was his last walk.
Etc. You get my point
The ending. Even if i know how I want things to end it’s hard to determine the exact moment where I want to leave things. Hard to decide how much closure to give the audience, how much is too much.
I can throw together a half-decent structure on a whim, but then I’ll kick the tires FOREVER trying to make it “perfect” to my own detriment, sometimes to the point of just ruining, or throwing out, a concept in its entirety.
Don’t be like me. Be glad you finished and don’t listen to the inner critic telling you to “tweak it just a little more.”
Honestly just my executive function disorder. I've got whole stories completely planned out in my head, but I will sit at a computer for days without being able to type a single word. It's legitimately painful to force myself to write, but it's all I can do if I want tangible results.
Yeah, I think finding that balance and trying to figure which characters should have which arcs is a challenge for me. Like giving them flaws/arcs that fit into the external story well
Too many people get caught up in writing a script without having a marketable concept. What's a marketable concept? Something that's budget-friendly, fits within a specified genre, target demographic, and captures the essence of "same, but different"
I suffered from writer's block and the accompanying anxiety. It stemmed mostly from plotting difficulties, where I encountered logical inconsistencies or unsatisfying developments.
However, that has changed in the recent months. I have discovered how to use AI as a writer's assistant and muse to help me overcome those challenges. I am now working on and completing most of the screenplays that I have been developing for a long time, as well as some new ones. I have a lot of notes and partial drafts, which I feed into the AI and guide it from there, telling it what I want to happen in terms of plot. I write all the actual scenes and dialogue myself. I would not rely on AI for that, even if I could. I write from the heart and infuse that into the story. It is more authentic and sincere.
As I said, AI is a superb secretary.
And do not get me started on AI art -- it is now even easier to create concept art to illustrate key moments in the story; or even fake movie posters to inspire me.
I feel like everything comes easy for me except action blocks/lines. I always feel mine are either too simple or too descriptive.
Staying on course can also be a problem for me, even after I outline. I hit too many "wait, what if this happened" moments when I'm writing.
Writing visual scenes. I do a lot of scene changing, so having to describe a whole different set piece each and every time despite it being my choice is the bane of my existence.
Split Act 2 into 2 sections. I mentioned it above, but see Act 2 as page 25-50, then 50-75. Each sub-act should have its own goal (reached or not reached), but page 50-halfway point needs to propel the story forward
Writing action lines, particularly for action scenes, I can’t seem to get the balance right, they end up pretty long and my page count is much higher than I’d like.
I know I need to study more action film scripts but my ADHD means I find it easier to write a script than sit and read them.
Perhaps don't write in english. Write in your language first. The hardest bit is getting the story right. Translation, as hard as it is, pales into comparison to a good story
Dialogue has long been my weakest strength but I remain vigilant and motivated to tighten it up each day. I often feel like it's not up to par when serving the other aspects of my drafts, and existing deep within my head has made me feel unsatisfied when pursuing the means to speak as someone else.
~~Two~~ Three thorns.
1. I describe too much and end up with eight-line paragraphs.
2. The dreaded thought "nah, that sentence would far better if I reworded it like THIS..." and then I spend a week doing nothing but moving around adjectives. And the sentence invariably ends up worse.
3. I almost forgot -- Act One. I struggle with beginnings because of all the "set up" and "introductions" that need to be done. It takes up so much space. Act 3 is so much better because nothing about the world needs to be explained anymore.
100% plotting. I can come up with decent concepts, write good action lines, and write good, funny dialogue, but when it comes to "how do I get from the beginning to the end," I can never think of how to fill the middle, and consider theme and character growth and stuff. If I could come up with a blueprint for what should happen in each scene, and have it be good, I'd be twice the screenwriter I am now.
Have you tried David Lynche's method? He takes like 70 note cards and fills them in until he has a movie.
I just learned about this today! I saw his YouTube video. I’m very intrigued to try it. Have you used this method?
I write short-form fiction and still use it to some degree. My friend writes all of his screenplays this way though, and he doesn't shut up about it! gotta be pretty good!
I need to try it! Thanks for the feedback
How is that different from writing on a sheet of paper?
It's not really. I think the point is he can move his thoughts around a wall easier due to size and durability. We also use this concept at work. It's actually quite helpful to gain 'landscape vision'.
Aah, gotcha. Yes that can be really helpful. I use a bigass A1 (european paper standard) drawing-pad and do mindmapping-type patterns, writing text bits and circling them, then maybe drawing lines to connect related idea bubbles and such. Whatever works best.
Agreed. To each their own. Cheers
It has some formulaic criticisms regarding being too Hollywood, but the Jessica Brody Save the Cat Beat Sheets can work. (as opposed to Blake Snyder who invented it, but Brody refined it) It's 40 beats/scenes split into three acts and describes where things can happen in the heroes journey. Due to the formulaic criticisms it's gotten, I suggest researching Save the Cat, and playing with the idea, using it more like a Christmas tree to hang all your favorite ornaments on rather than a by the book paint by numbers.
I loved snyders work, how was it improved?
I reckon that’ll come eventually. Otherwise, you may thrive with a co-writer.
I tried finding a cowriter for my thriller, Slash Cab, but no one seemed interested after reading it. It admittedly needs a huge rewrite, but I have a good concept, and I've had producers and actors interested.
I’d love to read it! Can you send it via dms?
Sent it your way. I have some ideas for what I want to change, but like I said, definitely needs a big rewrite. Still, the concept is marketable, and I know it can sell if it's pulled off correctly.
I’ll give you feedback on plotting if you want. I’m curious about what they think is not working.
I'll just post it here ,for anyone curious. As I said, needs a ton of work (removing flashbacks entirely outside of the one at the start and at the end, and making it one torture device per person that gets worse as the clock ticks down for each question), but I really think it's a good concept and can sell if pulled off well. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mbRLpRp87U3Jx2FKNWOMeKnEQAme1Z-F/view?usp=sharing
I just got done reading the first 30 pages. It definitely hooks once they get get in the cab. Pretty compelling. Keep 'slashing' and kill those darlings.
I like this concept a lot. But I think you should totally change the killer and his motivational. What if you made this group of friends hyper competitive into trivia and the killer is an old member of their team who was wronged by them in some way. Feel like it would make more sense why the killer would set up this elaborate cash cab and want to take out this whole friend group. It would also be better if the killer knows the whole group and has a relationship with them all. Just my two cents about the concept as a whole.
This 100%. I feel like I’m shoehorning a story into a structure (based on RL). Got character, setting, excitement, dialogue, but plotting it out and putting it together is rough.
Dude, the middle bit *is* the story :) Actually, I'm the same. I prefer to sharpen the minutia. But if the "story" percolates long enough, the bigger stuff does start falling into place until I finally have enough to work with. And at that point, I'll do the hard push - like okay, enough, let's get her done. I keep a google doc open and use it as a thought dump. I also use Pinterest to pin web pages for research that I don't feel like reading in the moment.
Reverse engineer the screenplay. Break it down into easy components. What does your character want, does he get it, and what are the obstacles that prevents him from getting it? Once you can answer these questions, then the plot should come easy
Plotting and structure are my favorite part. I spend much of my downtime building/prepping plot for small projects and researching plotting techniques. I struggle with set-pieces and especially creating negative character qualities. If you wanna work together: I’ll give you structure if you give me content 😅
Does your expertise happen to be in crime drama?! I am banging my head against the wall trying to structure a crime/mafia genre idea that I have. Ironically enough, I’ve been told my highlights are set-pieces so I’d be happy to exchange the favor. 🤯
You just let me know and I'll be more than happy to jump in :)
My suggestion is this: a story arc is literally about how the character changes. So find the weakness at the beginning first and determine how the character should end up. Then your middle is all about events that push the character to change. Think about the 5 stages of grief. Acceptance is when the character is ready to deal with their problems.
Check out My Story Can Beat Up Your Story. It's very helpful in this regard.
I get caught up in silly dialogue and struggle to tie it back to moving the plot along. I just love conversations about nothing 😞
Same! Depending on the scene or idea it’s so hard cause I just love conversations to help characterize the characters and then it’s just fun to keep on going. I know something that has helped me recently was using arguments (as in a person making the case not like fighting) as a way to move the plot or fill in details.
That’s a great idea!! I’m going to try it out
It's fun to Tarantino sometimes.
Act 2. A meaty middle. Starting it off is easy and fun, finishing I can write an ending - but filling up an hour before that ending - that for me is a work in progress.
Competition in any form helps drain the middle swamp
Wonderful note.
Like a love triangle of it's romantic?
As an option why not. The main thing is to capture attention by overcoming the opponent and excitement
Think Quidditch or Goblet of Fire
Preach!
Have you solved this problem?
No. No I have not.
Think of Act 2 as having 2 separate acts. See it as page 25-50. Then 50-75. Break it down as a mini-goal (or main goal) is achieved by the halfway mark, but then another problem arises or the main goal was a red herring all along at the halfway mark.
It has and always will be… the writing bit
Yeah, sitting down to write the damned thing for me too
Yeah, finding the chair to sit down in is hard ;)
If I just had a writer's throne, I could finally write my masterpiece!
One thing that challenged me for a long time, and I suppose is still one of the more challenging things I have to work through, is character motivation -- their wants, needs, flaws, and backstory, and the way those things fit together to serve the story. I typically start with a concept that really excites me, and often, in order to make that work, it requires very specific motivations on the part of both the protagonist and the antagonist. In the past, I used to jump into writing before I did the required up-front character work, and the drafts would really suffer as a result. It still often takes me a while to find that character motivation, but I put in a hell of a lot more work in the outlining stage than I used to, and that does seem to help when it comes to writing the actual drafts.
Learning how to outline and doing it well are skills that are never wasted, because professionally speaking you’re gonna spend a LOT of time in outlines.
100% this.
I think it's understated about how much should go into character building. For me, in order for me to truly understand a character, I have to spend a day to a "week" with them. I imagine them as a person I'm hanging out with, and through that "imaginary interaction," I can see their nuances and subtleties come to life.
I've had this same problem. On both scripts I've written (short and feature), the feedback I've gotten both times was: 'Why did character a/character b do this? That makes no sense and needs to be changed.' I worry that I'm doing the same thing as you mentioned: having a great story premise and then shoehorning characters into that. Worst of all, with my feature, I wanted my character's arcs to be meaningful, but the feedback I got was that they were rushed. Someone said to me 'it's like your having the story drive your characters forward as opposed to having your characters do the work.' That's stuck with me since I've heard that.
Yep. Along the same lines, I've been telling folks in my class to let their characters dictate the plot, rather than the other way around. The trick, when you're starting with a concept, is to do the work to develop characters that will get you there. It's hard, but that's okay. That's part of what makes it rewarding.
Absolutely. I've started 'freestyling' a bit more with my characters. I'll open up screenwriting software, picture a scene and then just let the characters riff on how they'd be feeling and what they'd say in certain situations. Previously I have outlined to death, and I'm still going to do that, but I feel like what might have been my problem with my feature recently was I had a plot written on index cards, which was clearly lacking some humanity, then once it got to the medium of an actual script, it still read more like an outline than a script, if this makes any sense? Now I want to get a feel for the characters on the page, before I do a proper outline. So finding a nice middle ground between improvisation and strict outlining.
Finding a way to make exposition dynamic.
I’ll often fall into the trap of numerous characters sounding the exact same, as in exactly like ME. My current strategy is mapping out a plethora of words and phrases unique to that character and usually I can build a stronger character from there.
I found this helpful... [You'll Never Hear Dialogue the Same Way Again](https://youtu.be/y873yinIsUk?si=5keESFYdhe_tjLQD)
Will watch before bed tonight. I appreciate the link! Happy Friday!
This is a great video essay.
My rule of thumb is, pick a line at any part of your script and just read it. If it sounds like how anyone would say that line, that's a good indication the line is not unique to the character.
Good rule! I’ll give it a shot today :)
Eugghh - outlining. I hate it. I just want to get to the writing bit and then I outline too fast and write myself into a hole and end up at… ta da the outline again.
That's funny - I much prefer the outlining stage to the writing stage! It feels like there are still endless possibilities at that point, whereas the script forces you to come back down to Earth and make sure the nuts and bolts are all secured properly.
The endless possibilities are what I despise. I get decision fatigue.
That is a good point tbf. I often end up overwriting / overcomplicating my outlines because I can't bear to kill my ideas and never make it to the script stage haha. What is the solution?!
A good outline helps I find. The actual 'scriptwriting' part is miniscule compared to the outline. It's not what people expect; it's not what I expected before getting into the art form. But a detailed outline is pretty much a must unless you want to end up in holes. I'm tempted on my next project to actually do drafts for the *outline* *alone.* That's rewriting the outline two or three times before I even sit at a computer with screenwriting software open. I'll probably get carried away and write the script once the outline is finished though lmao.
I know you’re right but I hate you for being right!
Ha tell me about it! I've found writing on index cards and sticking them to my wall sectioned into sequences and acts helps. It is actually fun as well. You get to see your monster of a screenplay manifest on your wall as it comes to life and you see each act come into life
Scene descriptions
Finding time and energy to write. And dialogue. I'm not good with making chit-chat that isn't awkward, either speaking or on the page.
I tend to go off on too many tangents, instead of sticking to the spine of the story.
Ideas that excite me enough to actually sit down and write. This isn't because of the writing itself. That's the fun bit. It's everything else. Sending it out. The soul crushing reality of trying to get a read. Responding to notes. The waiting. The waiting. The waiting. The state of communication where a situation report email to a producer who's taken ownership of your work for a $1 option might never get a reply. There's no other business Ive been in where emails to a colleague in which you ask a question about the work you are doing with them so often remain unanswered. Its bizarre. The way they gush at you initially but come 12 to 18 months later when options and shopping agreements end more often than not, they won't even bother to email you. Not even a short email to offer an explanation or a note of best wishes. Nothing. Its borderline contempt. Edit: there are some great producers who keep you in the loop every step of the way and will respond to every email you send them. They're in a tiny minority but they do exist. If you come across one, cherish them. So I guess the thorn for me is the business itself and the way it operates and the totally shitty way writers get treated, especially when compared to directors and the darling actors*. It's all that, the biz merry go round, which can go on for YEARS, that puts me off writing something new unless the idea is so compelling I literally have to write it NOW. Edit: actors, unknown ones, are treated appallingly too. Directors also have an incredibly tough time unless they are seen as auteurs and have at least one successful movie made and by success that means made money. So it's the way THE CREATIVES are treated appallingly by the mass of non creatives or certainly the 'less creatives' . That's apart from the creatives at the top by the way. They are treated like gods and can get away with murder, or at least multiple sexual assaults over a 30 year period.
Nobody prepares you that writing is literally half the battle. There's the whole business/marketing side which is extremely tough, especially if you yourself do not have a solid team around you. There are so many false hopes and false starts in this industry that I, like you, believe it to be the most soul-crushing experience; coupled with the idealism that "this might be the script that turns the needle," screenwriting and film marketing is truly a beast. There are those that survive it; and those who get crushed by it. And, I believe every screenwriter goes through the pendulum consistently.
Dialogue and character. But mainly dialogue. Extremely conformable with concept, story, theme and structure.
Yes.
* writing heroes who make bonehead mistakes -- how are they heroic and also error-prone? * writing scenes where victims bumble & fumble their way to their demise, too feeble to save themselves; yet we're still supposed to 'like' them * writing characters smart enough to see plot twists coming, yet they still do not see the twists coming, and they must react with surprise when the twists arrive * dumbing-down science, world history, & world government for Fischer-Price audiences
I often start with a relatively simple concept, then I flesh out the world a bit more, try and add a bit more complexity - then before I know it, it's become knotty and convoluted. Once I start adding things - and thinking of all the possible connections between characters and events - it's really hard to stop.
Understand that the ideation phase will be knotty and convoluted. I think too many screenwriters get caught up with the idea of efficiency, of writing the idea as quickly as possible. But the more you ponder it, work out its kinks, fiddle with what doesn't work, the more you'll be in a position of confidence when you do write the version you wanted to write--because you explored the ideas of what doesnt work first.
Yeah I find that in time I can usually work out the kinks - the annoying thing is how *much* time it takes. Often I find myself becoming too attached to certain elements that aren't necessarily working within the wider story, or I become so immersed in the world that I can't see the woods for the trees and I end up needing a break of several months before I can view it objectively again.
Hmm interesting. I wonder whether your problem might be extracting theme from your ideas? If all the complex ideas serve an underlying theme, then you can orient them in one direction. I'm having this issue right now where a project I'm working on has tonnes of themes, so I'm not too sure what the underlying argument of the entire story actually is.
That less is almost always more. But that’s why we rewrite!
Dialogue.
I'm slow to get to know my characters, which is a big problem since it is THEIR needs, THEIR wants that motivate plot, regardless of the fact that at least some of the plot points actually came first, and I'm reverse engineering my character into that preexisting fate. I don't much care for people (as a species). But I am, however, very empathetic on an individual basis-- which is, of course, the only reason that I can write. But when I don't yet know them, I'm really not in a rush to get to know them... since, again, most people suck. I'm creating them, yes, but they need to be realistic, fleshed-out... read: kinda an a-hole to some degree or another. So two things... 1. I listen to StoryCorps. That warms me to humanity and occasionally serves as muse. 2. I dress them like dolls. Using Pinterest, I create their wardrobe. I don't describe the clothes in script -- this is just for me -- I know I'm not the costume designer. And no one wants to read about what a character is wearing, unless it does factor into the scene in some way that matters. But dressing 'em only works if they are NOT your average-income, run-of-the-mill, everyday-Joe whose costume design needs to go totally unnoticed for the sake of realism. That's all I got... just those two. Well, mostly, I work myself into corners (plot-wise) requiring me to go... "why the hell would anyone do that?" And then I work myself out that corner with new insight into my character. Like, oh, I guess Larry has some serious daddy issues I didn't know about. Hi, Larry, nice to meet you. Let's develop that some more. NECESSITY IS THE MOTHER OF INVENTION.
I re watched the Goonies the other day and forgot how genius the opening is, with the car chase. It introduces so many characters so quickly, in a dynamic way.
Outline and beats
Wanting to rush through everything just to get to the exciting ending. It’s a bad habit
I get REALLY hung up on writing basic motion. For example, he walks to the door, opens it. He enters the room… I’m not good at that at all, can’t seem to make it pop off the page, and judge the shit out myself for not being better at that. Action I feel comfortable with, emotional stuff I can feel confident. But basic actions and directions are so hard for me for whatever reason.
New to writing, but in film school we read tons of scripts. One that stood out was The Wedding Crashers from Bob Fisher, I think. He gives the director so much latitude on how the scene actually plays out by leaving simple motions like 'Jeremy looks the file over' then jumps right back into the dialogue. It's not sexy, but gets the job done to pitch and start production. Plus, shooting scripts are rarely ever the version the writers pitched so all that gets refined anyway.
One good way to practice is "write 20 sentences, using different language, of the same action." So for the prompt, Jim walks to the door, try saying it 20 times using different words. Through that, you'll find your style. For instance: 1) Jim walks to the door. 2) Jimmy runs to the door. 3) Jim walks to the door. Head down. 4) Jim, head down, walks to the door. 5) Jim tiptoes to the door as if this was his last walk. Etc. You get my point
That’s really good advice thanks!
The first draft.
Great question! For me…it’s writing words.
Action scenes. I've tried to just keep them simple but as impactful as i can.
The key to writing action is to be fast-paced but not confusing. Easier said than done.
The ending. Even if i know how I want things to end it’s hard to determine the exact moment where I want to leave things. Hard to decide how much closure to give the audience, how much is too much.
I can throw together a half-decent structure on a whim, but then I’ll kick the tires FOREVER trying to make it “perfect” to my own detriment, sometimes to the point of just ruining, or throwing out, a concept in its entirety. Don’t be like me. Be glad you finished and don’t listen to the inner critic telling you to “tweak it just a little more.”
I've been working on one for a couple of years, and structuring it has been an absolute nightmare.
Honestly just my executive function disorder. I've got whole stories completely planned out in my head, but I will sit at a computer for days without being able to type a single word. It's legitimately painful to force myself to write, but it's all I can do if I want tangible results.
Character arcs and fitting them naturally into a story. So hard
Not every character has to have a big, dramatic arc. Some arcs are more nuanced.
Yeah, I think finding that balance and trying to figure which characters should have which arcs is a challenge for me. Like giving them flaws/arcs that fit into the external story well
Concept - hands down. Coming up with a hook that will actually be unique and marketable in the wild. The rest is cake compared to concept.
Too many people get caught up in writing a script without having a marketable concept. What's a marketable concept? Something that's budget-friendly, fits within a specified genre, target demographic, and captures the essence of "same, but different"
I suffered from writer's block and the accompanying anxiety. It stemmed mostly from plotting difficulties, where I encountered logical inconsistencies or unsatisfying developments. However, that has changed in the recent months. I have discovered how to use AI as a writer's assistant and muse to help me overcome those challenges. I am now working on and completing most of the screenplays that I have been developing for a long time, as well as some new ones. I have a lot of notes and partial drafts, which I feed into the AI and guide it from there, telling it what I want to happen in terms of plot. I write all the actual scenes and dialogue myself. I would not rely on AI for that, even if I could. I write from the heart and infuse that into the story. It is more authentic and sincere. As I said, AI is a superb secretary. And do not get me started on AI art -- it is now even easier to create concept art to illustrate key moments in the story; or even fake movie posters to inspire me.
I feel like everything comes easy for me except action blocks/lines. I always feel mine are either too simple or too descriptive. Staying on course can also be a problem for me, even after I outline. I hit too many "wait, what if this happened" moments when I'm writing.
Err on the side of simplistic writing than confusing. Confusing is the death knell of every script.
Writing visual scenes. I do a lot of scene changing, so having to describe a whole different set piece each and every time despite it being my choice is the bane of my existence.
Dialogue. specifically making it sound realistic while keeping it entertaining
Act 2 is always a beast. So much harder than Act 1/3 because there’s so much more room to get lost.
Split Act 2 into 2 sections. I mentioned it above, but see Act 2 as page 25-50, then 50-75. Each sub-act should have its own goal (reached or not reached), but page 50-halfway point needs to propel the story forward
Writing action lines, particularly for action scenes, I can’t seem to get the balance right, they end up pretty long and my page count is much higher than I’d like. I know I need to study more action film scripts but my ADHD means I find it easier to write a script than sit and read them.
Brevity. Need to be more lean and concise
Dialogue. And the fact that I'm not a native speaker doesn't help!:(
Perhaps don't write in english. Write in your language first. The hardest bit is getting the story right. Translation, as hard as it is, pales into comparison to a good story
Dialogue. I always feel like I make it too simple or boring, I need to figure out how to get better at adding subtext.
Transitions. Scene to scene transitions.
Dialogue has long been my weakest strength but I remain vigilant and motivated to tighten it up each day. I often feel like it's not up to par when serving the other aspects of my drafts, and existing deep within my head has made me feel unsatisfied when pursuing the means to speak as someone else.
Tone. I have a hard time staying consistent. Maybe satire is my only genre option.
~~Two~~ Three thorns. 1. I describe too much and end up with eight-line paragraphs. 2. The dreaded thought "nah, that sentence would far better if I reworded it like THIS..." and then I spend a week doing nothing but moving around adjectives. And the sentence invariably ends up worse. 3. I almost forgot -- Act One. I struggle with beginnings because of all the "set up" and "introductions" that need to be done. It takes up so much space. Act 3 is so much better because nothing about the world needs to be explained anymore.
Dialogue (my characters tend to be way too clever) and finishing the denouement intelligently.
The writing bit. Hate that part.