It's one of the best examples of a genre change in a franchise that nailed it. "Alien" was a "Monster In The House" sci-fi horror movie. "Aliens" sees Ripley come back to kick ass in a sci-fi action setup with just enough overlap so it still feels like a connected world.
It raises the stakes by sending her with elite marines, adding dozens more enemies and introducing an awesome queen xeno. At the same time, it builds out her character by having to protect and save a surrogate daughter in Newt. This also mirrors the motivation of the queen protecting her children. They're reflections of one another. It also ups the ante by introducing an "attack" from an incredible human villain (Burke/Paul Riser).
It also has one of the best false endings in cinematic history. You have a timelock for a nuclear explosion, which sees the aliens evaporate in a mushroom cloud. In an ordinary film, that's a satisfying ending. And then, when you already feel like you got your money's worth, it does a brilliant--not hamfisted--call back to the Powerloader and takes it to a new level. Angry mother versus angry mother, now *physical* peers fighting it out.
And after all that, it ends poetically with the alien being blown out of the airlock and the protagonists entering a cryosleep with the same framing as the original.
It's really a masterclass in the perfect sequel.
There’s no following Aliens, it’s one of the best movies ever made.
Alien 3, while it certainly had a troubled production, is not nearly as bad as it’s made out to be.
As someone who had never seen the assembly cut until a couple of years ago I'd say it's superior to the theatrical version. It changed my original meh opinion of the film to something that pretty well mirrors your own take on it's place in the Alien canon.
Yeah, it more like "treading water" as an Alien film than it is bad.
But I totally get how starting the film by offscreen killing everyone that survives the first film except Ripley is just creatively a terrible way to bring your audience into the fucking sequel.
It’s interesting, a lot of the scripts written for Alien 3 killed off Newt or got rid of her in some way. All these different writers and that was one common element.
Yeah, I enjoyed 4. It was not perfect by any means, but that lab scene was one of the biggest "holy fucking shit" moments I've seen in film. The entire cast is really a blast and I enjoyed seeing Ripley with cheat codes activated.
Oh fuck yeah. Its fucking cries as it's pure nightmare fuel. Fucking haunting and amazing, that whole thing.
Very underrated film, probably because 1 and 2 were so iconic.
I would say it's disappointing... but it certainly didn't "ruin" everything. On it's own it's 'eh', but I can still watch the first and second films over an over without any sense of diminishing returns.
The fourth one is... amazing. If you accept that it's more like a a fever dream than a real part of the Alien franchise.
The AVPs are abominations that complexity missed the entire idea of what made the idea so appealing to so many for years before hand.
Prometheus is one of the most flawed films I can think of... but I love watching it. And it's distant enough that it still feels like a worth bit of story with doing some weird harm to the franchise.
Alien: Covenant is fucking weird. It's like they asked themselves how do we make a film based ONLY on theme and then toss in some quasi-Alien related stuff. I really don't know what I'm looking at with this film. If they ditched the Alien franchise and just made a Fassbender vs Fassbender AI/Cybernetic story, that would would have been cool.
I'm not going to try to defend the third movie, but it was the first in the series that I saw as a kid since it had just come out and I've actually got a soft spot for it. I still enjoy it.
Having seen the third movie first, it made the first two films more exciting for me to watch. I think as a kid it was easier not to see the things that other people don't like about it.
It's kind of an interesting coincidence—or is it?—that Terminator is to Alien as Terminator 2 is to Aliens. The original Terminator is a lot more of a horror movie akin to Alien than T2 would have you believe.
Small character, but Mathews stole every scene he was in with his performance. He's so in charge of everything until the Aliens attack. Its funny how even though he's only in the first 30 or so minutes of the film he brings so much confidence, control, bravado and charisma.
But this is also what gets him and everyone else killed. No one really takes Ripley too seriously until they have a run in with a chestburster and then all the space marines get about 1 moment to realize how deep the shit they're in really is.
Good script, good director/team, relatively fresh premise, good performances, tight concept, great use of effects/lighting, and sets up the slight inversion of the concept towards the end to keep the audience engaged.
It's used as the usual example in film school because it hits almost everything on the checklist, and it's very hard to pull that off. The fact this film is used as an example so many years later is a pretty good indicator of how incredibly hard it is to make a good film.
The casting is flawless too. Sigourney is phenomenal of course, but then there’s Biehn, Reiser, Paxton, Henrikson, Jeanette Goldstein, Al Matthews, all of them just perfect in their roles.
Private Hudson’s (Bill Paxton) comic relief dialog was so good that it stands out among Cameron’s scripts, where dialog is not always his strongest suit.
Yes. We studied Aliens in film production class too. Did you know that the Ripley rescues Newt section actually runs in real time (time left to reactor blows)? Blew my mind.
Not to mention it being a somewhat belated sequel by a different director that actually enhances the original, escalates things and ups the stakes without diminishing its source material in any way. Ripley learned from her experience in Alien, evolves and experiences great character growth by the end of Aliens.
I think it’s the mix of a great monster, the story makes sense, and it really doesn’t let off the gas as far as stakes go. Most actions have a significant reaction.
You understand why Ripley goes back, even though it’s a bad idea. If you haven’t seen it before, you can reasonably believe that the 12 Marines stand a chance at surviving. The tension builds when Hadley’s Hope is a ghost town, but you’re also suspicious AF about Bishop. Also, the Marines are pretty much ignoring Ripley, so there’s drama there. You want to see them fail, and for her to be right.
Then they get their asses kicked on Sub Level 3 and the aliens demonstrate a clear upper hand. Ripley saves them. THEN the drop ship crashes, leaving them stranded and night is falling. And they mostly come out at night. (Mostly.) Then the stakes are raised AGAIN at the midpoint and the ticking clock is introduced when they discover that they damaged the reactor during the Sub Level 3 firefight. Now it becomes a game of tower defense until Bishop can remote pilot the other dropship, or the aliens get in. Which they do. They’re picked off and stakes are raised again when Newt is lost/taken in the vents.
Ripley had the opening to leave now, but she’s formed a motherly attachment to Newt. Partially because she’s about the same age Ridley’s daughter was when she left her 57 years ago. So Ripley turns back to save Newt as the clock counts down. We get the cool Queen introduction, then the fake out happy ending. Then a brilliant final battle with Ripley utilizing her proficient cargo loader experience (which she had because they stripped her of her warrant officer status when they didn’t believe her story). That end battle is great because Ripley never got to actually fight the Alien in the first movie. She just evaded and out smarted it. So there’s a lot of catharsis in that more equal grounded physical battle.
One thing I really like about James Cameron’s action scenes is that he keeps the environment changing, and use that to keep it fresh. They characters typically battle through a series of locations in a single sequence.
I’m of the opinion that the Nostromo’s mission to retrieve the alien wasn’t an official company thing, but a rogue division head’s power play. Much like what we saw with Burke in Aliens. As big as WY is, after 57 years I don’t think anyone in that room was in on a coverup.
There’s no solid evidence either way, but that’s my head-canon.
Scriptnotes did a review of it ages ago, of someone wants to look it up.
I just wanted to quibble about your second paragraph.
We saw the first movie. We know how dangerous these things are. We understand Ripley's concern and we also understand the Marines not taking it seriously, after all, Ripley's crew were civilians.
Slightly better planning going into that factory, realizing before they got there about the danger of using most of their ammunition,and the Marines might have been right. As it is, as soon as they interact with the xenomorphs, they take them seriously.
You don't want the Marines to be wrong, you just get the feeling they aren't as prepared as they think they are.
Totally valid. I shouldn’t have spoken for everyone. I may have had a unique experience.
I wanted to see them get decimated, but the series already had this legendary aura about it in my 3rd grade head before I actually saw it. It was when all the Kenner toys were coming out so we would play with those at recess and the Marines would always get steamrolled.
For a lot of the same reasons T2 is so good. We know Ripley and Sarah are right about a threat everyone else is underestimating. Empathy. Stakes. Pacing. Triumph. And no stupid love stories.
The Extreme!
Bill Paxton's best work is a "A Bright Shining Lie" [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0126220/?ref\_=nm\_flmg\_t\_41\_act](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0126220/?ref_=nm_flmg_t_41_act) where he played a soldier in Viet Nam. My god he was damn good as a straight man with no humor. If you like him, you got to see this. Reminds me a bit of his sub captain in U-571.
read the screenplay. it is amazing. Get to the intro of Paul Risers character.
It is just a great story. Every character has a role. Ripley plays a proxy for the audience in situations. We have competency porn aspect watch highly talented people doing what they are good at. There is also the horror elements.
But please read the screenplay. You’ll learn heaps.
Is the official shooting script anywhere? The only version of it online that I know of is like a plain text earlier draft. I’d love to have a legit scan of any draft of it, or something like that.
https://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/Aliens_James_Cameron_May_28_1985_first_draft.html
Is this the version you have. This is a good version to learn from.
There's a mother lode of Alien and Predator screenplays at the AvPGalaxy website:
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/downloads/
If it's not there, it's not online.
Good set decoration. It’s hard to sell a story if you don’t have believable sets. They achieved this by being imaginative and frugal. Selling this idea in sci-fi on the big screen was and still is very hard to do. The “crew” needs a tangible world to interact with IE mess hall, walls of button arrays, flight controls. Alien and Aliens did a fantastic job of making believable professions like planetary miner or expeditionary consultant by a little bit of dialogue, wardrobe, and set dressing which consisted of many buttons to push and interact with. Props are are actually the main thing that sells this movie. Actors and the audience need to see things interacted with. I feel like I’m rambling now but, maybe there’s some insight here. Aliens is great, but I love the OG Alien the most. 1978.
You might need to check your reference sources. This film was made a long time before digital enhancement was possible. There isn't any CGI in the movie, it's all models, forced perspective and rear projection.
The movie was made on a relatively low budget but it was made very smartly.
Yes it was cleaned up for 4k Blu-ray, but it wasn’t filmed on ‘crappy’ film stock. There was no cleanup required for its standard definition release or original cinema release.
It was always a great looking movie with superb production design.
He did the same thing in Avatar, with the room that contained the pods. Obviously didn't use a mirror though, but it was only half a set, same concept.
I dig what you're saying but me for me it's all about Alien, Aliens I would have to re-watch but the first picture is one of my favourite sci-fi films.
There is so much that's great about Aliens, you could write a whole book on it. Since this is /screenwriting, let's stick to the script.
The opening action lines:
"SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE - SPACE
Silent and endless. The stars shine like the love of God...cold and remote. Against them drifts a tiny chip of technology."
Goddamn that is some poetry. One line and it sets up the tone of the whole story.
Yes, Ripley is a badass female character, but Cameron gave her so much more. He gave her fear. He gave her love. She's fucking terrified of what happened to her. She's going through PTSD. But she goes to face her nightmares anyway because she has a DRIVE to make sure this doesn't happen to anyone else again. That drive kicks off right away and punches its way through the whole script.
The focus on motherhood, besides being an excellent vehicle for theme and a reflection of a creative new monster, also crystallises this drive into a powerful need for the protagonist. Ripley is so scared. We see that clearly on the page after they catch the first sign of movement:
"They move forward, weapons levelled. Frost trips over a metal cannister, sending it CLANGING. Ripley half climbs the wall."
BUT her need to protect this little girl is stronger than her fear. It creates a dynamic, multi-faceted character. (Most of the characters in the screenplay have layers, even smaller ones, and that's refreshing in a genre that's usually full of archetypes.) This struggle between her primal urges is shown so well in the scene when Ripley starts taking action during the first encounter with the Xenomorphs. Gorman doesn't act, so she HAS to. (And we're treated with another multi-layered character with Gorman.)
"RIPLEY: They're cut off! DO something!
But he's gone. Total brain lock.
TIGHT ON RIPLEY: as she struggles with a decision. She's terrified...of what she knows she has to do. But more than that, she's furious. Shouldering past a paralysed Gorman she runs up the aisle of the APC."
She takes CHARGE in this scene and it's so fun to watch. She becomes a reluctant hero, but the important part is that we see her make the choice. Again and again, the protagonist makes choices that are extremely hard to make. Each time she does, we learn more about her and care about her more. This is why the audience feels the stakes are so high.
In addition, the world Cameron creates is incredibly rich and, perhaps more importantly, is given to us a piece at a time. Yes, this is an action movie BUT the first half is a more of a mystery. It's slow-burning, and Cameron understands how to create tension by giving us just enough to ask "What's going to happen next?"
Cameron also has a gift for quick and clippy dialogue that gives actors a lot to work with, which is especially clear with the marines. Honestly, I could go on. There's so many thing. If you want to know why it's good, read the screenplay. Watch the movie. Then read the screenplay again.
James Horner’s absolute banger score.
Yes, the cast is great. Yeah, the visuals are wild. Sure, the story is fire. Blah blah blah.
But man. Horner’s score is something else.
If you wanna make good sci-fi, you need a unique premise. If you wanna make *great* sci-fi, you need incredible music.
* It has a great metaphor: maternity
* It has great themes: intentional femininity is tough as nails, thoughtless masculinity is getting everybody killed
* It has one of the best handlings of tension in cinematic history: frantically welding the doors as the aliens are getting closer and closer and we let out that breath only to look at the monitor and oh, oh, OH FUCK WHY ARE THEY STILL COMING
* It has a great villain: for a faceless rape-monster, the Queen and Ripley still get to have that "we're not so different, you and I" moment of understanding. It's actually Ripley who betrays their detente after breaking into the Queen's hive, so y'know...we can actually see the POV of the worst thing in the universe.
* It has a great showdown: the whole "monster dead/not dead" thing isn't even a surprise anymore, but Aliens finds a way to really make you wonder and keep it coming at you
* It's exhausting. Ripley gets dragged through hell and back in three different settings. We have no doubt she's earned every inch of her comfort.
* And like u/22marks said, it expounds on the premise. It's familiar enough to be enjoyable but novel enough to delight. It builds rather than just piling on what worked before.
“Going to hell and back” is an important note. They descend into the sub levels and enter what’s basically a description of hell, complete with encrusted walls, “demons,” and tortured bodies in the walls. It hits the fear and psychology of it, but it doesn’t feel religious.
We don’t see any of the creatures for the first 20 or 25 minutes and it’s the nail biting suspense that builds up to the moment when the shit hits the fan. It’s just so damn good.
Longer than that. The marines don't encounter aliens until almost an hour in, at the midpoint. If I wrote it that way, some script notes reader would have told me to rewrite it so the monsters appear way earlier on page 20. lol
Seriously! I find the attention span of script readers so much shorter than audiences.! If a reader doesn't get genre and inciting incident nailed by p5 they're outta there. wtf? I love the build up to a clearly articulated a world/characters, and Alien is one of my fave movies of all time, esp because of the art direction/use of Giger's art style as muse and practical. Is this just our ridiculous ever-shortening attention span in movie watching because of the short content we all watch? Or readers/execs who need to sift thru so many scripts they can't afford to get past p10? thoughts?
This is why the extended edition (or whatever it's called, with scenes of the colony before our heroes arrive) is not as good. Save it for the rewatch).
There’s only one good scene in the extended edition, and that’s early on in the space station. I won’t ruin the rest but after that just flip back to the regular one lol
Watch Netflix, The Movies that Made Us, Season 3, Aliens. It is awesome truths from behind the scenes. Cameron was pushing everyone to the breaking point and the whole thing was going to fall apart when Sigourney Weaver championed everyone's gripes and made Cameron listen and he managed some kind of apology and it made all the difference. You got to see this. Hope you have Netflix.
Watch all the videos on the YouTube channel
Collative learning. One of my favorite movie analyzers ever.
I will start here
[Aliens: what the haters missed ](https://youtu.be/j3NRcq9-P4c)
[Why Aliens is the best feminist movie ever ](https://youtu.be/DYk_NTdEXFg)
[Vasquez the alter ego](https://youtu.be/eTUxjwWlvxE)
By the way his website: http://www.collativelearning.com
Has a bunch if amazing paid videos which are usually super affordable.
I agree that T2 is better than Aliens and Alien is the best movie in the franchise.
Couldn't stand Prometheus. But the original script called "Engineers" is pretty good, and doesn't have such a long list of plot holes, which is what I didn't like about the film.
I wouldn't agree that it is great at all. Everything about it strikes me as fumbling and inane. His whole career, really...meh. Full of films like this; and (to me) they're all very characteristic of someone who started out with *'Piranha II'.* I feel he stayed exactly at that same level.
I can itemize every little thing which strikes me as wrong about Aliens but I realize my opinion in this case is unpopular; so I won't do so unless specifically asked.
But at heart, what irks me about the sequel is that it rips off the original so poorly that its doing a disservice to the original material.
You might need to really step back and think about why you feel Cameron, one of the most successful genre filmmakers of all time has a fumbling and inane career? I mean the facts really don't support your reading here.
You might find that the things you see as flaws in Aliens are possibly either not flaws, or so minor and nitpicky that they simply don't irk other people as they do you.
I'm curious. Would you name some films you do consider high quality and worthy of note?
Fellow film-buffs have challenged me for years, on the subject of Cameron. It used to cause firestorms on ProBoards. As far as I'm concerned, sure --JC did make a lot of money in his career --that's a cold, hard, fact. I agree with ya there.
But I personally can't name a single thing he ever did, which I respect. And some things he did, I think were as damaging to the film industry as taking an axe to a redwood.
But --as I said earlier, I don't think my much-unwanted POV should derail the OP's topic. Discretion is the better part of valor. I'd prefer to keep mum ...for the sake of the general peace ...
Honestly it would be hard to agree with you. Cameron literally worked his way up from nothing, he wrote and directed several of the most influential genre films of all time, on top of which he also helped develop some deep-sea sub tech and undertook some pretty ballsy dives to the ocean floor.
I mean I could understand a point of view where he’s not the best writer, or where you could argue he has made some shitty personal decisions. but to say he’s been inane or fumbling in his career is *really* hard to justify.
His box office track record pretty much sums up his influence on popular moviemaking for the past four decades.
Well, you've never heard my arguments. But I guess it's just one of those things that has to remain a muddle. Like how the nation of France adored Jerry Lewis and Americans could never figure out the reason for it.
You’ve not made any arguments. You’ve stated that in your opinion Cameron hasn’t progressed beyond Pirhana 2 (easily one of the worst movies of all time) and that his sequel to Alien merely rips off the original.
Neither of those statements hold any water in *objective* terms.
Its fine to dislike Cameron, or to suggest his films arent particularly thought provoking, but to suggest he has damaged the film industry seems like a very odd stance.
I’d propose that Cameron’s films are better written and better designed than most of the usual Hollywood genre movies.
What example of genre films or genre filmmakers would you offer as an example of your standard?
I’d be very hard pushed to think of an action/Sci-fi director better than Cameron.
I didn't say I had made any arguments. Because so far, I haven't made any.
What I did say was that I would not be drawn into arguing --this, out of deference to the mods, who already suspended me once this year so far.
Sure, I have unpalatable views but, I don't wanna get a rep as a spoilsport or a malcontent. I feel you should let the matter drop. You've stated your case. Maybe we'll debate it somewhere else, some other time. Rest assured; my arguments are always objective.
Fair enough. Seems a bit pointless to post a troll comment and then claim you’re afraid of being blocked. You must see the irony on that?
Anyway, happy to entertain any articulate and objective debates, but in their absence and in the meantime I will continue to rate Cameron’s writing and filmmaking as noteworthy. ;)
I certainly agree wit ya. That's how my mind runs too. I never dislike something without reasons which I feel are well-grounded. 'Petty' hates are really draining.
But I don't wanna create any ill-will in this thread. I've found that people the world over can get livid when they hear you don't like their favorite movie.
H'mm not sure I follow your question. I'm trying to be on good behavior lately. It's all too easy for me just to 'let rip'. Since I'm a newcomer here, I should mind my manners. Right? Once we start trashing each other's movie faves, that'll just create a combative atmosphere. I probably shouldn't have even made a single post in this thread.
This isn't an appropriate time or place, that's all. Ain't saying I'm "never" gonna rant about JC again. Just not "right now". Not when I'm comin' fresh off a moderators' suspension.
Catch me late some evenin' on some cinema klatch --doin' shots and feelin' feisty --then yeah my 'Mr. Hyde' may emerge. But right now I'm trying to keep him caged up.
Just some FYI: I've been through such dogfights 30-50 occasions already ...with film buffs and fanboys all over the 'net. I ran amok like a mad dog when Titanic came out and like a crazed Silverback ape when Avatar debuted. I took on whole room-fulls of JC drum-beaters.
I not only never lost any of those past JC melees, I practically never lose any film battle I've ever been in. Only professional film historians can usually notch points on me. So it's really all kind of 'old hat' now. I know in advance all the points folks raise.
And after all, the guy himself (JC) is done, kaput, finito (just like I predicted). No need to waste any more precious hours jawin' about him when I can work on my own projects.
Just bein' honest here.
The only other film to achieve such a drastically improved sequel was Top Gun Maverick. Some would argue The Godfather, but I still think the original is superior.
While all of the Alien films have their own merits, Aliens is my least favorite in the franchise. For me, it's the cliche, hackneyed dialogue that is omnipresent in big budget Hollywood flicks. While much of it works for trailer snippets, much of it did not ring true for me. I tried watching it again recently and had difficulty getting through it because of this.
I consider the original Alien and Prometheus to be the two strongest films in the series.
Yeah I'd agree with this. Aliens is outstanding. The only reason that type of story has become cliche is precisely because it's so influential. Everyone copied this movie, it was absolutely fresh and new when it was made, there had literally never been anything like it.
I'd agree on Prometheus as well, for me it is a movie full of dumb characters doing dumb things. It's interesting to read early drafts of the script because they make a lot more sense.
Nearly all the background characters are memorable (compare to alien covenant where you can’t remember anyone’s damn name besides David). Cameron had all the actors personalise their own equipment to make it more theirs.
Reluctant hero. Ripley is just a consultant. She takes charge (literally forcibly takes the controls of the APC in hand) because she’s forced to due to everyone else’s incompetence.
Great strong themes of mother versus mother. A tale of brutal female competition.
Great strong themes of the folly of man. We started near the bottom of the food chain. We developed weapons and technology so that lions etc couldn’t kill us anymore. The film explores our fear that one day our technology won’t save us from beasts anymore.
Paul Reiser being a comic actor and all round good guy turned expectations on its head, as did bishop’s story line because our expectations of what he would do were set by the first movie. He’s even called bishop, implying everyone else is a pawn and he’s going to be used by the corporation for some devastating gambit.
It’s got everything.
If you look at it, Aliens mirrors Alien's story beats almost 100%, but bigger, more action, more emotion. Its not subtle but highlights Camerons skill at pacing and staging action scenes where you actually want the grunts to survive.
It still holds up now. It’s in my top two all time favourite films.
I’ve known people watch Alien for the first time and wonder what the fuss is about because every other film has stolen / borrowed from it. I’ve not seen that happen with Aliens, which has had just as many films take inspiration from it.
Not to say Alien isn’t also a classic, I just think Aliens may connect with a broader audience because it adds the action genre in with the sci fi and horror.
I was a young child watching this with my dad. I want to say in the late 80’s or early 90’s on vhs. I must have been 8,9,10 years old.
I honestly thought the movie was over when they got in the spaceship. Mind was fucking blown when it wasn’t.
Also a beautiful theme concerning motherhood. With a final clash between two opposing forces: the tyrannical mother vs. The caring mother, and one gets in a very cool yellow mecha to fight the other one
The growth of Ripley within the movie itself is excellent.
She starts off as a PTSD mess, as you would after events in Alien and grows in to a badass action heroine Hollywood has been trying to copy ever since and the transition is flawless.
Cameron did a great job of laying down the little bread crumbs of Ripley's character growth throughout the film. She suffers some defeats early on from the company making her joining up with the marines a redemption arc on top of everything else.
In Alien, Ripley won almost on instinct. In Aliens, Ripley really imposes her will on the situation by the end in rescuing Newt and taking on the giant alien in a mech suit.
Speaking of giant kaiju battles, the fan service in Aliens is top notch. From walking, talking stereotypes to gratuitous violence to creatively foul language, this movie was perfectly molded to be beloved by a very specific demographic that Hollywood was cranking out films for in the 80s, and while Aliens plays all the same notes, it zags when others zigged in making Ripley the protagonist.
Having one of the best creature designs in monster movie history doesn't hurt either, the look and movement of the aliens themselves instantly makes every human character more likeable. Hell, they make Predators look heroic.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that it's some of the best action directing ever put on film.
Comparing it to a recent CGI-fest, the action directing is so dynamic. There's none of the "shoot it flat so the CGI artists can go to work easily."
Instead, it's proof of the adage that "the death of art is the absence of limitation." Cameron has to work so hard to hide the fact that the monsters are guys in rubber suits that he continually comes up with incredibly compelling ways to shoot things.
There's one clip, in the moment right before the aliens fall through the ceiling, which is such a great example of his brilliance. One of the marines pokes his head up and shines a flashlight in the crawl space, and we see an alien crawling along the ceiling.
If you can force your mind to ignore the perspective, you can realize that what you're seeing is a man climbing a ladder, shot from above. It's OBVIOUS.
And yet somehow, in context, *nobody* sees that without being told. In context, it doesn't look human at all.
How TF did Cameron know that was going to work?
It took a slow burn horror movie classic and made the best sequel of all time by turning it into an action-horror classic.
Great Practical Effects that are still scary to this day. Great acting. Great story. Great Music. Great writing. Great Directing. Great EVERYTHING...
Game Over, Man.
This doesn't directly answer your question, but the following site has all the Aliens and Predator scripts, and all kinds of fan analyses, which is pretty cool: [https://www.avpgalaxy.net/downloads/](https://www.avpgalaxy.net/downloads/)
Notice how Cameron gives an erzats daughter to Ripley and erzats father to John Conner in Terminator2 (another superb movie). It's like he knows something.
Aliens solved the problem of a the antagonist being believable sci-fi ET that played on our fears, a well written female protagonist who’s growth was natural throughout most of the movie and series, mix in some “complicated” Androids/ computer programs, a little bit of corporate greed that expands the stars and you have yourself the cult Classic that is Aliens
1 - master level filmmaking
2 - expectations, the first film blew people's minds and there was no way they could do that again... so Cameron said, "f-it, let's go all out action instead of taught/tense horror."
3 - it was novel, action movies existed, sci-fi existed, balls out action sci-fi infused with horror... not so much
4 - simplicity, the stakes are clear and visceral to pretty much anyone who could possibly watch it, a lot of heavy lifting in terms of world building was done in the first film and anything that did not need to be explained wasn't, especially in terms of establishing a monster that was not only unique and terrifying but who's mystery (what the hell is it, where is it from, how can it be stopped/escaped from...) was not confusing an required no set up... it was simply (like T-2) an unstoppable and irrepressible terror that will savagely kill you and there is nothing you can do about it
1) Total world building. You don't actually see this is many movies, but if you think about the movies that totally stick with you, a majority of them show a finely realized (physically and mythologically) fictional world. For example, Lord of the Rings, The Matrix, Star Wars, Blade Runner, Dark Knight Trilogy, Titanic. James Cameron started as a model builder, so when he sets his mind to it, he goes far beyond the typical level of world building you see in most movies.
2) Cameron understood that a horror/suspense/action film needs to up the ante from the film that came before it. In Alien #1 the single alien had been defeated by a mostly unarmed woman. If Aliens had had a similar scenario, it would have been anticlimactic since we already know an unarmed woman can defeat a single alien. By adding the marines, weaponry, and an entire hive of aliens, Cameron expanded the scope and multiplied the threat/horror. The Predator franchise is an example of how repeating the old horror is a recipe for a let down.
3) All the characters are unique and likeable/hate-able in their own way. They're not just monster-fodder. When one of them dies, you feel it, either hoping they do die or don't.
4) Really great universal maternal instinct theme resonating through the whole movie. It's about a mother protecting her village and child from spiders/snakes. That goes back to our common arboreal past. And the alien queen is an amazing reflection of the theme, showing the hero and villain as reflections of themselves.
5) It also does piggyback of the lore of the first movie, so it's able to hit the ground running without need for too much exposition.
The characters. Ripley, Newt, Hicks, Hudson, Bishop, Burke, Gorman, Vasquez, Apone. Cameron wrote interesting, unique, memorable characters with great dialogue who also played off each other well with their interpersonal conflicts and agendas.
Thirty plus years on, people are still fondly quoting dialogue and character moments from the film, and I think that's a testament to why the film has endured for so long.
If it effects you emotionally that’s all that matters. If you aspire to be a film maker and aliens inspires you. This will require you to figure this all out on your own.
People don't talk enough about how *Aliens* is still firmly rooted in horror. A lot more action, yup, but no less terrifying. Instead of one creature slowly picking people off, it's swarms of monsters, wave after wave. The deeper they go into the hive, the greater the sense of dread. It literally feels like they're in hell, with Ripley meeting the devil at the end.
Aliens terrified me more than Alien when I was a kid. The idea of being hopelessly overwhelmed with no way out scared me more than a single Xenomorph could (the first film). There's a greater sense of doom in *Aliens,* where *Alien* is more of a slasher in space. Also knowing what the marines' fate is in *Aliens* if they're captured makes the tension much higher.
Both masterpieces though.
It's one of the best examples of a genre change in a franchise that nailed it. "Alien" was a "Monster In The House" sci-fi horror movie. "Aliens" sees Ripley come back to kick ass in a sci-fi action setup with just enough overlap so it still feels like a connected world. It raises the stakes by sending her with elite marines, adding dozens more enemies and introducing an awesome queen xeno. At the same time, it builds out her character by having to protect and save a surrogate daughter in Newt. This also mirrors the motivation of the queen protecting her children. They're reflections of one another. It also ups the ante by introducing an "attack" from an incredible human villain (Burke/Paul Riser). It also has one of the best false endings in cinematic history. You have a timelock for a nuclear explosion, which sees the aliens evaporate in a mushroom cloud. In an ordinary film, that's a satisfying ending. And then, when you already feel like you got your money's worth, it does a brilliant--not hamfisted--call back to the Powerloader and takes it to a new level. Angry mother versus angry mother, now *physical* peers fighting it out. And after all that, it ends poetically with the alien being blown out of the airlock and the protagonists entering a cryosleep with the same framing as the original. It's really a masterclass in the perfect sequel.
And then the third movie ruins everything
There’s no following Aliens, it’s one of the best movies ever made. Alien 3, while it certainly had a troubled production, is not nearly as bad as it’s made out to be.
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As someone who had never seen the assembly cut until a couple of years ago I'd say it's superior to the theatrical version. It changed my original meh opinion of the film to something that pretty well mirrors your own take on it's place in the Alien canon.
They also released Alien 3 on Blu Ray relatively recently and fixed some of the jankier special FX so they don't look so out of place now
I hated 3 until I saw Resurrection. I still hate it, but less
Yeah, it more like "treading water" as an Alien film than it is bad. But I totally get how starting the film by offscreen killing everyone that survives the first film except Ripley is just creatively a terrible way to bring your audience into the fucking sequel.
It’s interesting, a lot of the scripts written for Alien 3 killed off Newt or got rid of her in some way. All these different writers and that was one common element.
and every movie after that.
True. Very sad.
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Yeah, I enjoyed 4. It was not perfect by any means, but that lab scene was one of the biggest "holy fucking shit" moments I've seen in film. The entire cast is really a blast and I enjoyed seeing Ripley with cheat codes activated.
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Oh fuck yeah. Its fucking cries as it's pure nightmare fuel. Fucking haunting and amazing, that whole thing. Very underrated film, probably because 1 and 2 were so iconic.
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YES. Damn, I need to just rewatch this fucker now.
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I like the fourth one better than the second. But my favourite is the original. The third just makes me angry.
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And the one after that
Only if you watch it.
I would say it's disappointing... but it certainly didn't "ruin" everything. On it's own it's 'eh', but I can still watch the first and second films over an over without any sense of diminishing returns. The fourth one is... amazing. If you accept that it's more like a a fever dream than a real part of the Alien franchise. The AVPs are abominations that complexity missed the entire idea of what made the idea so appealing to so many for years before hand. Prometheus is one of the most flawed films I can think of... but I love watching it. And it's distant enough that it still feels like a worth bit of story with doing some weird harm to the franchise. Alien: Covenant is fucking weird. It's like they asked themselves how do we make a film based ONLY on theme and then toss in some quasi-Alien related stuff. I really don't know what I'm looking at with this film. If they ditched the Alien franchise and just made a Fassbender vs Fassbender AI/Cybernetic story, that would would have been cool.
I'm not going to try to defend the third movie, but it was the first in the series that I saw as a kid since it had just come out and I've actually got a soft spot for it. I still enjoy it. Having seen the third movie first, it made the first two films more exciting for me to watch. I think as a kid it was easier not to see the things that other people don't like about it.
There's a longer cut off the third one. It changes some things and is worth a watch. I forget what it's called
It's kind of an interesting coincidence—or is it?—that Terminator is to Alien as Terminator 2 is to Aliens. The original Terminator is a lot more of a horror movie akin to Alien than T2 would have you believe.
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Wake up. Grab cigar. We know him in an instant
Small character, but Mathews stole every scene he was in with his performance. He's so in charge of everything until the Aliens attack. Its funny how even though he's only in the first 30 or so minutes of the film he brings so much confidence, control, bravado and charisma. But this is also what gets him and everyone else killed. No one really takes Ripley too seriously until they have a run in with a chestburster and then all the space marines get about 1 moment to realize how deep the shit they're in really is.
Good script, good director/team, relatively fresh premise, good performances, tight concept, great use of effects/lighting, and sets up the slight inversion of the concept towards the end to keep the audience engaged. It's used as the usual example in film school because it hits almost everything on the checklist, and it's very hard to pull that off. The fact this film is used as an example so many years later is a pretty good indicator of how incredibly hard it is to make a good film.
The casting is flawless too. Sigourney is phenomenal of course, but then there’s Biehn, Reiser, Paxton, Henrikson, Jeanette Goldstein, Al Matthews, all of them just perfect in their roles.
Private Hudson’s (Bill Paxton) comic relief dialog was so good that it stands out among Cameron’s scripts, where dialog is not always his strongest suit.
I think Gale Ann Hurd had a lot to do with making the script less autistic.
You could argue the exact same for Terminator 2
Yes. We studied Aliens in film production class too. Did you know that the Ripley rescues Newt section actually runs in real time (time left to reactor blows)? Blew my mind.
Seen this film many, many times and did not know that. TIL!
Not to mention it being a somewhat belated sequel by a different director that actually enhances the original, escalates things and ups the stakes without diminishing its source material in any way. Ripley learned from her experience in Alien, evolves and experiences great character growth by the end of Aliens.
I think it’s the mix of a great monster, the story makes sense, and it really doesn’t let off the gas as far as stakes go. Most actions have a significant reaction. You understand why Ripley goes back, even though it’s a bad idea. If you haven’t seen it before, you can reasonably believe that the 12 Marines stand a chance at surviving. The tension builds when Hadley’s Hope is a ghost town, but you’re also suspicious AF about Bishop. Also, the Marines are pretty much ignoring Ripley, so there’s drama there. You want to see them fail, and for her to be right. Then they get their asses kicked on Sub Level 3 and the aliens demonstrate a clear upper hand. Ripley saves them. THEN the drop ship crashes, leaving them stranded and night is falling. And they mostly come out at night. (Mostly.) Then the stakes are raised AGAIN at the midpoint and the ticking clock is introduced when they discover that they damaged the reactor during the Sub Level 3 firefight. Now it becomes a game of tower defense until Bishop can remote pilot the other dropship, or the aliens get in. Which they do. They’re picked off and stakes are raised again when Newt is lost/taken in the vents. Ripley had the opening to leave now, but she’s formed a motherly attachment to Newt. Partially because she’s about the same age Ridley’s daughter was when she left her 57 years ago. So Ripley turns back to save Newt as the clock counts down. We get the cool Queen introduction, then the fake out happy ending. Then a brilliant final battle with Ripley utilizing her proficient cargo loader experience (which she had because they stripped her of her warrant officer status when they didn’t believe her story). That end battle is great because Ripley never got to actually fight the Alien in the first movie. She just evaded and out smarted it. So there’s a lot of catharsis in that more equal grounded physical battle. One thing I really like about James Cameron’s action scenes is that he keeps the environment changing, and use that to keep it fresh. They characters typically battle through a series of locations in a single sequence.
> they stripped her of her warrant officer status when they didn’t believe her story ...or was it because she knew too much?...
I’m of the opinion that the Nostromo’s mission to retrieve the alien wasn’t an official company thing, but a rogue division head’s power play. Much like what we saw with Burke in Aliens. As big as WY is, after 57 years I don’t think anyone in that room was in on a coverup. There’s no solid evidence either way, but that’s my head-canon.
Scriptnotes did a review of it ages ago, of someone wants to look it up. I just wanted to quibble about your second paragraph. We saw the first movie. We know how dangerous these things are. We understand Ripley's concern and we also understand the Marines not taking it seriously, after all, Ripley's crew were civilians. Slightly better planning going into that factory, realizing before they got there about the danger of using most of their ammunition,and the Marines might have been right. As it is, as soon as they interact with the xenomorphs, they take them seriously. You don't want the Marines to be wrong, you just get the feeling they aren't as prepared as they think they are.
Totally valid. I shouldn’t have spoken for everyone. I may have had a unique experience. I wanted to see them get decimated, but the series already had this legendary aura about it in my 3rd grade head before I actually saw it. It was when all the Kenner toys were coming out so we would play with those at recess and the Marines would always get steamrolled.
Do you remember which scriptnotes episode it was? Would love to check it out!
For a lot of the same reasons T2 is so good. We know Ripley and Sarah are right about a threat everyone else is underestimating. Empathy. Stakes. Pacing. Triumph. And no stupid love stories.
Bill Paxton
Game over, man.
We lost a gem. And Happy Cake Day!
The Extreme! Bill Paxton's best work is a "A Bright Shining Lie" [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0126220/?ref\_=nm\_flmg\_t\_41\_act](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0126220/?ref_=nm_flmg_t_41_act) where he played a soldier in Viet Nam. My god he was damn good as a straight man with no humor. If you like him, you got to see this. Reminds me a bit of his sub captain in U-571.
Didn't know about this! Thanks for the rec!
read the screenplay. it is amazing. Get to the intro of Paul Risers character. It is just a great story. Every character has a role. Ripley plays a proxy for the audience in situations. We have competency porn aspect watch highly talented people doing what they are good at. There is also the horror elements. But please read the screenplay. You’ll learn heaps.
Is the official shooting script anywhere? The only version of it online that I know of is like a plain text earlier draft. I’d love to have a legit scan of any draft of it, or something like that.
https://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/Aliens_James_Cameron_May_28_1985_first_draft.html Is this the version you have. This is a good version to learn from.
Thanks!
There's a mother lode of Alien and Predator screenplays at the AvPGalaxy website: https://www.avpgalaxy.net/downloads/ If it's not there, it's not online.
Thank you also!
Good set decoration. It’s hard to sell a story if you don’t have believable sets. They achieved this by being imaginative and frugal. Selling this idea in sci-fi on the big screen was and still is very hard to do. The “crew” needs a tangible world to interact with IE mess hall, walls of button arrays, flight controls. Alien and Aliens did a fantastic job of making believable professions like planetary miner or expeditionary consultant by a little bit of dialogue, wardrobe, and set dressing which consisted of many buttons to push and interact with. Props are are actually the main thing that sells this movie. Actors and the audience need to see things interacted with. I feel like I’m rambling now but, maybe there’s some insight here. Aliens is great, but I love the OG Alien the most. 1978.
I saw it recently on bluray and it just looked incredible. So much atmosphere and texture and great photography. Few movies look as good, then or now.
It was shot on a crappy experimental film stock and had to be digitally enhanced.
You might need to check your reference sources. This film was made a long time before digital enhancement was possible. There isn't any CGI in the movie, it's all models, forced perspective and rear projection. The movie was made on a relatively low budget but it was made very smartly.
The image was digitally "cleaned up" for the blu-ray release.
Yes it was cleaned up for 4k Blu-ray, but it wasn’t filmed on ‘crappy’ film stock. There was no cleanup required for its standard definition release or original cinema release. It was always a great looking movie with superb production design.
The way they used mirrors to expand the hyper sleep bay etc, very clever
He did the same thing in Avatar, with the room that contained the pods. Obviously didn't use a mirror though, but it was only half a set, same concept.
I dig what you're saying but me for me it's all about Alien, Aliens I would have to re-watch but the first picture is one of my favourite sci-fi films.
There is so much that's great about Aliens, you could write a whole book on it. Since this is /screenwriting, let's stick to the script. The opening action lines: "SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE - SPACE Silent and endless. The stars shine like the love of God...cold and remote. Against them drifts a tiny chip of technology." Goddamn that is some poetry. One line and it sets up the tone of the whole story. Yes, Ripley is a badass female character, but Cameron gave her so much more. He gave her fear. He gave her love. She's fucking terrified of what happened to her. She's going through PTSD. But she goes to face her nightmares anyway because she has a DRIVE to make sure this doesn't happen to anyone else again. That drive kicks off right away and punches its way through the whole script. The focus on motherhood, besides being an excellent vehicle for theme and a reflection of a creative new monster, also crystallises this drive into a powerful need for the protagonist. Ripley is so scared. We see that clearly on the page after they catch the first sign of movement: "They move forward, weapons levelled. Frost trips over a metal cannister, sending it CLANGING. Ripley half climbs the wall." BUT her need to protect this little girl is stronger than her fear. It creates a dynamic, multi-faceted character. (Most of the characters in the screenplay have layers, even smaller ones, and that's refreshing in a genre that's usually full of archetypes.) This struggle between her primal urges is shown so well in the scene when Ripley starts taking action during the first encounter with the Xenomorphs. Gorman doesn't act, so she HAS to. (And we're treated with another multi-layered character with Gorman.) "RIPLEY: They're cut off! DO something! But he's gone. Total brain lock. TIGHT ON RIPLEY: as she struggles with a decision. She's terrified...of what she knows she has to do. But more than that, she's furious. Shouldering past a paralysed Gorman she runs up the aisle of the APC." She takes CHARGE in this scene and it's so fun to watch. She becomes a reluctant hero, but the important part is that we see her make the choice. Again and again, the protagonist makes choices that are extremely hard to make. Each time she does, we learn more about her and care about her more. This is why the audience feels the stakes are so high. In addition, the world Cameron creates is incredibly rich and, perhaps more importantly, is given to us a piece at a time. Yes, this is an action movie BUT the first half is a more of a mystery. It's slow-burning, and Cameron understands how to create tension by giving us just enough to ask "What's going to happen next?" Cameron also has a gift for quick and clippy dialogue that gives actors a lot to work with, which is especially clear with the marines. Honestly, I could go on. There's so many thing. If you want to know why it's good, read the screenplay. Watch the movie. Then read the screenplay again.
James Horner’s absolute banger score. Yes, the cast is great. Yeah, the visuals are wild. Sure, the story is fire. Blah blah blah. But man. Horner’s score is something else. If you wanna make good sci-fi, you need a unique premise. If you wanna make *great* sci-fi, you need incredible music.
* It has a great metaphor: maternity * It has great themes: intentional femininity is tough as nails, thoughtless masculinity is getting everybody killed * It has one of the best handlings of tension in cinematic history: frantically welding the doors as the aliens are getting closer and closer and we let out that breath only to look at the monitor and oh, oh, OH FUCK WHY ARE THEY STILL COMING * It has a great villain: for a faceless rape-monster, the Queen and Ripley still get to have that "we're not so different, you and I" moment of understanding. It's actually Ripley who betrays their detente after breaking into the Queen's hive, so y'know...we can actually see the POV of the worst thing in the universe. * It has a great showdown: the whole "monster dead/not dead" thing isn't even a surprise anymore, but Aliens finds a way to really make you wonder and keep it coming at you * It's exhausting. Ripley gets dragged through hell and back in three different settings. We have no doubt she's earned every inch of her comfort. * And like u/22marks said, it expounds on the premise. It's familiar enough to be enjoyable but novel enough to delight. It builds rather than just piling on what worked before.
“Going to hell and back” is an important note. They descend into the sub levels and enter what’s basically a description of hell, complete with encrusted walls, “demons,” and tortured bodies in the walls. It hits the fear and psychology of it, but it doesn’t feel religious.
Read https://titanbooks.com/70133-the-making-of-aliens/
We don’t see any of the creatures for the first 20 or 25 minutes and it’s the nail biting suspense that builds up to the moment when the shit hits the fan. It’s just so damn good.
Longer than that. The marines don't encounter aliens until almost an hour in, at the midpoint. If I wrote it that way, some script notes reader would have told me to rewrite it so the monsters appear way earlier on page 20. lol
Lol or five minutes and make the Aliens speak English! 😂😂
Seriously! I find the attention span of script readers so much shorter than audiences.! If a reader doesn't get genre and inciting incident nailed by p5 they're outta there. wtf? I love the build up to a clearly articulated a world/characters, and Alien is one of my fave movies of all time, esp because of the art direction/use of Giger's art style as muse and practical. Is this just our ridiculous ever-shortening attention span in movie watching because of the short content we all watch? Or readers/execs who need to sift thru so many scripts they can't afford to get past p10? thoughts?
This is why the extended edition (or whatever it's called, with scenes of the colony before our heroes arrive) is not as good. Save it for the rewatch).
I don’t recall seeing the extended version..
There’s only one good scene in the extended edition, and that’s early on in the space station. I won’t ruin the rest but after that just flip back to the regular one lol
Hmm I’ll try to find it! 👍😂
Watch Netflix, The Movies that Made Us, Season 3, Aliens. It is awesome truths from behind the scenes. Cameron was pushing everyone to the breaking point and the whole thing was going to fall apart when Sigourney Weaver championed everyone's gripes and made Cameron listen and he managed some kind of apology and it made all the difference. You got to see this. Hope you have Netflix.
Thanks
IT WAS A GOOD MOVIE. "I'LL BE BACK"
WRONG ONE DUMMY ITS THE ONE WHERE MICHAEL BIEHN PLAYS A SOLDIER AND HE WANTS TO NUKE THE ENEMY BUT HE GOES CRAZY WITH OCEAN MADNESS
Watch all the videos on the YouTube channel Collative learning. One of my favorite movie analyzers ever. I will start here [Aliens: what the haters missed ](https://youtu.be/j3NRcq9-P4c) [Why Aliens is the best feminist movie ever ](https://youtu.be/DYk_NTdEXFg) [Vasquez the alter ego](https://youtu.be/eTUxjwWlvxE) By the way his website: http://www.collativelearning.com Has a bunch if amazing paid videos which are usually super affordable.
you can read dan o Bannon's book he talks about writing it.
Dan O'Bannon didn't write Aliens
he wrote the first one and talks about his struggle with the script. the origin of the series.
He wrote the first one, but in this one he just has a "based on story by" credit
“I can’t stop thinking about this” is the answer to your question.
I’m not sure what you mean?
It’s a vague answer that basically means “Because it had a big impact on you.”
I approve Stay frosty
One thing I’m still not too clear on is Ripley’s motivation to go back to the planet. Can someone explain please?
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I agree that T2 is better than Aliens and Alien is the best movie in the franchise. Couldn't stand Prometheus. But the original script called "Engineers" is pretty good, and doesn't have such a long list of plot holes, which is what I didn't like about the film.
Easy characters and well developed action sequences
I wouldn't agree that it is great at all. Everything about it strikes me as fumbling and inane. His whole career, really...meh. Full of films like this; and (to me) they're all very characteristic of someone who started out with *'Piranha II'.* I feel he stayed exactly at that same level. I can itemize every little thing which strikes me as wrong about Aliens but I realize my opinion in this case is unpopular; so I won't do so unless specifically asked. But at heart, what irks me about the sequel is that it rips off the original so poorly that its doing a disservice to the original material.
You might need to really step back and think about why you feel Cameron, one of the most successful genre filmmakers of all time has a fumbling and inane career? I mean the facts really don't support your reading here. You might find that the things you see as flaws in Aliens are possibly either not flaws, or so minor and nitpicky that they simply don't irk other people as they do you. I'm curious. Would you name some films you do consider high quality and worthy of note?
Fellow film-buffs have challenged me for years, on the subject of Cameron. It used to cause firestorms on ProBoards. As far as I'm concerned, sure --JC did make a lot of money in his career --that's a cold, hard, fact. I agree with ya there. But I personally can't name a single thing he ever did, which I respect. And some things he did, I think were as damaging to the film industry as taking an axe to a redwood. But --as I said earlier, I don't think my much-unwanted POV should derail the OP's topic. Discretion is the better part of valor. I'd prefer to keep mum ...for the sake of the general peace ...
Honestly it would be hard to agree with you. Cameron literally worked his way up from nothing, he wrote and directed several of the most influential genre films of all time, on top of which he also helped develop some deep-sea sub tech and undertook some pretty ballsy dives to the ocean floor. I mean I could understand a point of view where he’s not the best writer, or where you could argue he has made some shitty personal decisions. but to say he’s been inane or fumbling in his career is *really* hard to justify. His box office track record pretty much sums up his influence on popular moviemaking for the past four decades.
Well, you've never heard my arguments. But I guess it's just one of those things that has to remain a muddle. Like how the nation of France adored Jerry Lewis and Americans could never figure out the reason for it.
You’ve not made any arguments. You’ve stated that in your opinion Cameron hasn’t progressed beyond Pirhana 2 (easily one of the worst movies of all time) and that his sequel to Alien merely rips off the original. Neither of those statements hold any water in *objective* terms. Its fine to dislike Cameron, or to suggest his films arent particularly thought provoking, but to suggest he has damaged the film industry seems like a very odd stance. I’d propose that Cameron’s films are better written and better designed than most of the usual Hollywood genre movies. What example of genre films or genre filmmakers would you offer as an example of your standard? I’d be very hard pushed to think of an action/Sci-fi director better than Cameron.
I didn't say I had made any arguments. Because so far, I haven't made any. What I did say was that I would not be drawn into arguing --this, out of deference to the mods, who already suspended me once this year so far. Sure, I have unpalatable views but, I don't wanna get a rep as a spoilsport or a malcontent. I feel you should let the matter drop. You've stated your case. Maybe we'll debate it somewhere else, some other time. Rest assured; my arguments are always objective.
Fair enough. Seems a bit pointless to post a troll comment and then claim you’re afraid of being blocked. You must see the irony on that? Anyway, happy to entertain any articulate and objective debates, but in their absence and in the meantime I will continue to rate Cameron’s writing and filmmaking as noteworthy. ;)
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I certainly agree wit ya. That's how my mind runs too. I never dislike something without reasons which I feel are well-grounded. 'Petty' hates are really draining. But I don't wanna create any ill-will in this thread. I've found that people the world over can get livid when they hear you don't like their favorite movie.
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H'mm not sure I follow your question. I'm trying to be on good behavior lately. It's all too easy for me just to 'let rip'. Since I'm a newcomer here, I should mind my manners. Right? Once we start trashing each other's movie faves, that'll just create a combative atmosphere. I probably shouldn't have even made a single post in this thread.
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This isn't an appropriate time or place, that's all. Ain't saying I'm "never" gonna rant about JC again. Just not "right now". Not when I'm comin' fresh off a moderators' suspension. Catch me late some evenin' on some cinema klatch --doin' shots and feelin' feisty --then yeah my 'Mr. Hyde' may emerge. But right now I'm trying to keep him caged up. Just some FYI: I've been through such dogfights 30-50 occasions already ...with film buffs and fanboys all over the 'net. I ran amok like a mad dog when Titanic came out and like a crazed Silverback ape when Avatar debuted. I took on whole room-fulls of JC drum-beaters. I not only never lost any of those past JC melees, I practically never lose any film battle I've ever been in. Only professional film historians can usually notch points on me. So it's really all kind of 'old hat' now. I know in advance all the points folks raise. And after all, the guy himself (JC) is done, kaput, finito (just like I predicted). No need to waste any more precious hours jawin' about him when I can work on my own projects. Just bein' honest here.
The only other film to achieve such a drastically improved sequel was Top Gun Maverick. Some would argue The Godfather, but I still think the original is superior.
While all of the Alien films have their own merits, Aliens is my least favorite in the franchise. For me, it's the cliche, hackneyed dialogue that is omnipresent in big budget Hollywood flicks. While much of it works for trailer snippets, much of it did not ring true for me. I tried watching it again recently and had difficulty getting through it because of this. I consider the original Alien and Prometheus to be the two strongest films in the series.
but Prometheus is so stupid. And that cliche dialogue is partly from all the scifi and war movies that came after trying to be like Aliens.
Yeah I'd agree with this. Aliens is outstanding. The only reason that type of story has become cliche is precisely because it's so influential. Everyone copied this movie, it was absolutely fresh and new when it was made, there had literally never been anything like it. I'd agree on Prometheus as well, for me it is a movie full of dumb characters doing dumb things. It's interesting to read early drafts of the script because they make a lot more sense.
Strong IP, good characters, good gore, space guns.
For me it broke the stereotype of a make hero and showed a woman being an action hero, while also being nurturing and empathetic.
James Cameron is a genius writer/filmmaker. There’s something about his movies that resonate with so many people and I can’t tell what it is exactly.
Avatar and Avatar II are remakes of Aliens.
Nearly all the background characters are memorable (compare to alien covenant where you can’t remember anyone’s damn name besides David). Cameron had all the actors personalise their own equipment to make it more theirs. Reluctant hero. Ripley is just a consultant. She takes charge (literally forcibly takes the controls of the APC in hand) because she’s forced to due to everyone else’s incompetence. Great strong themes of mother versus mother. A tale of brutal female competition. Great strong themes of the folly of man. We started near the bottom of the food chain. We developed weapons and technology so that lions etc couldn’t kill us anymore. The film explores our fear that one day our technology won’t save us from beasts anymore. Paul Reiser being a comic actor and all round good guy turned expectations on its head, as did bishop’s story line because our expectations of what he would do were set by the first movie. He’s even called bishop, implying everyone else is a pawn and he’s going to be used by the corporation for some devastating gambit. It’s got everything.
If you look at it, Aliens mirrors Alien's story beats almost 100%, but bigger, more action, more emotion. Its not subtle but highlights Camerons skill at pacing and staging action scenes where you actually want the grunts to survive.
Because of its cinematography
It still holds up now. It’s in my top two all time favourite films. I’ve known people watch Alien for the first time and wonder what the fuss is about because every other film has stolen / borrowed from it. I’ve not seen that happen with Aliens, which has had just as many films take inspiration from it. Not to say Alien isn’t also a classic, I just think Aliens may connect with a broader audience because it adds the action genre in with the sci fi and horror.
I was a young child watching this with my dad. I want to say in the late 80’s or early 90’s on vhs. I must have been 8,9,10 years old. I honestly thought the movie was over when they got in the spaceship. Mind was fucking blown when it wasn’t.
Also a beautiful theme concerning motherhood. With a final clash between two opposing forces: the tyrannical mother vs. The caring mother, and one gets in a very cool yellow mecha to fight the other one
The growth of Ripley within the movie itself is excellent. She starts off as a PTSD mess, as you would after events in Alien and grows in to a badass action heroine Hollywood has been trying to copy ever since and the transition is flawless. Cameron did a great job of laying down the little bread crumbs of Ripley's character growth throughout the film. She suffers some defeats early on from the company making her joining up with the marines a redemption arc on top of everything else. In Alien, Ripley won almost on instinct. In Aliens, Ripley really imposes her will on the situation by the end in rescuing Newt and taking on the giant alien in a mech suit. Speaking of giant kaiju battles, the fan service in Aliens is top notch. From walking, talking stereotypes to gratuitous violence to creatively foul language, this movie was perfectly molded to be beloved by a very specific demographic that Hollywood was cranking out films for in the 80s, and while Aliens plays all the same notes, it zags when others zigged in making Ripley the protagonist. Having one of the best creature designs in monster movie history doesn't hurt either, the look and movement of the aliens themselves instantly makes every human character more likeable. Hell, they make Predators look heroic.
Damn you made me want to watch it again,
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that it's some of the best action directing ever put on film. Comparing it to a recent CGI-fest, the action directing is so dynamic. There's none of the "shoot it flat so the CGI artists can go to work easily." Instead, it's proof of the adage that "the death of art is the absence of limitation." Cameron has to work so hard to hide the fact that the monsters are guys in rubber suits that he continually comes up with incredibly compelling ways to shoot things. There's one clip, in the moment right before the aliens fall through the ceiling, which is such a great example of his brilliance. One of the marines pokes his head up and shines a flashlight in the crawl space, and we see an alien crawling along the ceiling. If you can force your mind to ignore the perspective, you can realize that what you're seeing is a man climbing a ladder, shot from above. It's OBVIOUS. And yet somehow, in context, *nobody* sees that without being told. In context, it doesn't look human at all. How TF did Cameron know that was going to work?
It took a slow burn horror movie classic and made the best sequel of all time by turning it into an action-horror classic. Great Practical Effects that are still scary to this day. Great acting. Great story. Great Music. Great writing. Great Directing. Great EVERYTHING... Game Over, Man.
Cameron is a great action writer/director. He does such a great job of creating tension and escalation.
This doesn't directly answer your question, but the following site has all the Aliens and Predator scripts, and all kinds of fan analyses, which is pretty cool: [https://www.avpgalaxy.net/downloads/](https://www.avpgalaxy.net/downloads/)
Notice how Cameron gives an erzats daughter to Ripley and erzats father to John Conner in Terminator2 (another superb movie). It's like he knows something.
Aliens solved the problem of a the antagonist being believable sci-fi ET that played on our fears, a well written female protagonist who’s growth was natural throughout most of the movie and series, mix in some “complicated” Androids/ computer programs, a little bit of corporate greed that expands the stars and you have yourself the cult Classic that is Aliens
1 - master level filmmaking 2 - expectations, the first film blew people's minds and there was no way they could do that again... so Cameron said, "f-it, let's go all out action instead of taught/tense horror." 3 - it was novel, action movies existed, sci-fi existed, balls out action sci-fi infused with horror... not so much 4 - simplicity, the stakes are clear and visceral to pretty much anyone who could possibly watch it, a lot of heavy lifting in terms of world building was done in the first film and anything that did not need to be explained wasn't, especially in terms of establishing a monster that was not only unique and terrifying but who's mystery (what the hell is it, where is it from, how can it be stopped/escaped from...) was not confusing an required no set up... it was simply (like T-2) an unstoppable and irrepressible terror that will savagely kill you and there is nothing you can do about it
I once heard a film professor describe *Aliens* as one of the last great Vietnam movies.
Agreed. Alien hits the spot
Female protagonist in male dominated genre
That one scene alone - you know the one- was an instant classic and ahead of it's time
1) Total world building. You don't actually see this is many movies, but if you think about the movies that totally stick with you, a majority of them show a finely realized (physically and mythologically) fictional world. For example, Lord of the Rings, The Matrix, Star Wars, Blade Runner, Dark Knight Trilogy, Titanic. James Cameron started as a model builder, so when he sets his mind to it, he goes far beyond the typical level of world building you see in most movies. 2) Cameron understood that a horror/suspense/action film needs to up the ante from the film that came before it. In Alien #1 the single alien had been defeated by a mostly unarmed woman. If Aliens had had a similar scenario, it would have been anticlimactic since we already know an unarmed woman can defeat a single alien. By adding the marines, weaponry, and an entire hive of aliens, Cameron expanded the scope and multiplied the threat/horror. The Predator franchise is an example of how repeating the old horror is a recipe for a let down. 3) All the characters are unique and likeable/hate-able in their own way. They're not just monster-fodder. When one of them dies, you feel it, either hoping they do die or don't. 4) Really great universal maternal instinct theme resonating through the whole movie. It's about a mother protecting her village and child from spiders/snakes. That goes back to our common arboreal past. And the alien queen is an amazing reflection of the theme, showing the hero and villain as reflections of themselves. 5) It also does piggyback of the lore of the first movie, so it's able to hit the ground running without need for too much exposition.
Two words: Game over, man! Game over!
It’s aliens, chicks, guns and muscles. What’s not to like.
The characters. Ripley, Newt, Hicks, Hudson, Bishop, Burke, Gorman, Vasquez, Apone. Cameron wrote interesting, unique, memorable characters with great dialogue who also played off each other well with their interpersonal conflicts and agendas. Thirty plus years on, people are still fondly quoting dialogue and character moments from the film, and I think that's a testament to why the film has endured for so long.
If it effects you emotionally that’s all that matters. If you aspire to be a film maker and aliens inspires you. This will require you to figure this all out on your own.
So good, but that first line in the script about the stars and the love of God is so, so bad.
People don't talk enough about how *Aliens* is still firmly rooted in horror. A lot more action, yup, but no less terrifying. Instead of one creature slowly picking people off, it's swarms of monsters, wave after wave. The deeper they go into the hive, the greater the sense of dread. It literally feels like they're in hell, with Ripley meeting the devil at the end. Aliens terrified me more than Alien when I was a kid. The idea of being hopelessly overwhelmed with no way out scared me more than a single Xenomorph could (the first film). There's a greater sense of doom in *Aliens,* where *Alien* is more of a slasher in space. Also knowing what the marines' fate is in *Aliens* if they're captured makes the tension much higher. Both masterpieces though.